Why not just make the raw available to everyone, make the translated script available publicly, and just wait for someone that will edit the text into the raw, if the usual editor isn't around, anyone else is free to try.
Each activity is usually done by different people, they can operate on their own liking instead of a schedule.
So you want releases to be inconsistent? I don't follow.
>they can operate on their own liking
So never basically.
Some people need a schedule and a sense of responsibility to actually finish anything, the ones that don't tend to typeset their own stuff anyway.
The idea is that without a group the stuff needed for completing a scanlation is available for anyone to use and complete.
And without organization, completion will happen "whenever some random guy maybe stumbles upon it and decides to do it".
Not to mention it's entirely possible they'll do a shit job of it.
Isn't that how basically any scanlation projects happen?
Without a group the some progress can still show instead of halt entirely when one part fails. Raws will be available Translations will be available. And if no editors are interested yet, all the material can still be read by the audience.
>Isn't that how basically any scanlation projects happen? It usually only happens like that now on obscure OVAs or shows that never got subbed years ago now. I think that is in part because most everything is subbed by now.
Now the only reasons things get subbed that aren't done by "professionals" are (CR/Funi etc) >ATX uncensored >BDs >skipped by CR/Funi >ripped subs are absolute shit >someone sends good scans/rips to a group
If the results are shit then people are free to ignore it, or for the people who are desperate for anything they can consider it better than nothing.
Raws are, with few exceptions, almost always available for stuff that is popular enough to get scanned. What you're really asking is that translators should put up scripts before they're edited. Only in extremely rare cases can I think of translators that likes a manga so much he continues to translate it, but doesn't like it enough to bother typesetting it.
Because we'd have a bunch of really shitty translations
Not exactly since those raws available to everyone has nobody interested on working on them in the first place, so even forming a group would not ensure they get translated until a translator is interested in the first place.
But there are scan groups that have dedicated raw providers.
Why do you need ten different people working on a single thing anyway?
Name one non-doujin manga that is even partway translated that isn't available raw.
>Why not just make the raw available to everyone
Because the whole point of scanlating is growing internet penis.
I couldn't find any public raws for Yume Nikki.
Diminishing effort concept. The same reason we have manufacturing plants for making appliances. People do less individual work but more work gets done. Are you really questioning the effectiveness of assembly line work?
But people like you ended up sucking on it anyways
It basically boils down to this.
Forming a group means you now have a name you can get attention on, that means you can: -Ask for money to continue scanlations -Ask for people to join you and do the work you want them to -Boss them around, withhold your work until your demands are met
Because most people are stupid and unless you want people fighting all the time, you need to form your own circlejerk so there will be no drama, it happens anyways, but it'd probalby be worse if you don't make a group.
If the assembly line is like the one OP is suggesting, then yes.
But really, I'm not sure if we'd have any assembly lines if they fell apart as often as scanlation groups.
It would be a good idea for LNs. Licensed especially.
Assembly lines have more incentive to get people to keep doing their work, money.
Scanlation groups can get that money from their fans if not for those devious manga reader sites.
>make the raw available to everyone I was under the impression that was indeed typically done >make the translated script available publicly Again, though maybe not the norm, on here at least people often post a translation along with the raws Ultimately I think the largest purpose of a group is so that someone doesn't, for example, translate the text, only to find nobody else cares enough about the series to typeset.
Because typical scanlators are like pic related
Typesetting, while time consuming, isn't exactly hard to learn either. If a translator feels like it he can do it himself, but it's more convenient to split the process if you have other projects in your life going on. If you can't bother with that, you likely won't bother to translate something at all (at least not make a commitment out of it).
The amount you can get "paid" for doing illegal translations is incredibly low, so I'm not sure why that would be anyone's incentive for doing it.
I guess it could work if you had a bunch of starving children working though.
>stealing from me
How come every anime streaming site has crunchyroll rips but manga reading sites don't upload crunchyroll rips?
Crowdsourced translation projects take for fucking ever. Look at TLWiki and similar. Even Baka-tsuki is pretty much just individual teams working on projects the same as any regular group/Js06 being a robot.
There was even a super old solo group unlisted because the series has been started from the first chapter multiple times. What a faggot.
Stop stealing the stuff I stole
Why does nobody make softsubs for manga? Shouldn't be too hard to make the translation on a separate, mostly transparent page that overlays with the raw so that you can look at the original manga without translations blocking everything.
Just stream your manga on youtube
why doesn't manga have audio? i don't like reading preferably eng dub
Because 99% of people don't care.
Ken Akamatsu's manga viewer site that he set up a few years ago used this method.
It looked like shit.
>translate a couple chapters of a manga that the group working on had stalled on for half a year >group posts butthurt comment about them on their blog and tell people to not read them because my typesetting wasn't up to their standards
Getting mad at sniping is pathetic, but on the other hand I was constantly terrified that I was going to get sniped when I used to translate.
It's an irrational feeling.
They had already dropped the series because it got licensed, though, but they made sure to add a note to that announcement saying "someone translated two chapters we didn't get to yet but don't read them because that tl is a fag".
Because by and large they have egos, don't want to be sniped, are petty etc. If the scanlation community became more like FOSS community it would be great.
They don't get paid for scanlating so e-pen is their only reward.
>They don't get paid for scanlating
>It's time for our monthly donation drive, fans! Remember, unless we raise 200$ this month as well, we'll have to stop scanlating.
I did that. I left it here. Nobody picked it up
Me too, nobody even bothered editing the script
Pretty much. TLing publicly is a hit and miss idea since people will only be interested if the material is interesting. Otherwise wasted effort.
googletranslates for everyone!
Why isn't there a site that lets translators contribute their translations and then anyone who wants to pick it up for the rest of the process does so?
What's funny is that people don't understand just how bad manga translations are. I'd say the quality is worse today than it's ever been. Why you'd want to make that even worse is a mystery.
I think Mangahelpers tried to become something like this when they died some years ago, but afaik it isn't being used.
Because that requires you to be confident whoever will do it will actually be competent. Plus most people won't post raws so you have to hope whoever does it has those too.
You know that there are dozens of manga that have translated scripts but have never been typeset, right? And you can find raws of basically anything if you look hard enough, if you can't thne just scan it yourself.
Groups make releases consistent and give people a reason not to flake. I TL stuff as user all the time but I definitely see the purpose of joining a scan group, the only reason I don't is because I don't want the responsibility.
>if you can't thne just scan it yourself. How do you find old or unpopular manga to scan?
Because it doesn't work unless it's very popular, very hyped, very interesting or just happen to attract the right people at the right time (with is a small miracle in itself). If you want things done on at least some regular basis, you want to find similarly dedicated autists who like this series/job and communicate somewhere far from Cred Forums, without mods, rules and archived/dead/404 threads.
>you can find raws of basically anything if you look hard enough
Hardly, there's so much shit I'm interested in that never got scanned I'd have to pay a small fortune to get it
Mangahelpers _been_ like that before they decided to go official. When that idea failed horribly, they decided to go back, but nobody bothered with them anymore.
I never translated manga before, but I did clean a couple of doujins for a friend, and I can understand the feeling.
>Waste hours cleaning up some raws and redrawing >When I was finally done, friend says that I should forget about it, because some other guy had already uploaded the same doujin >Literally wasted my time over nothing
I was honestly mad.
I once had a dream where I got sniped and I woke up buttmad as fuck
At that point, why couldn't you just upload your shit as well?
Wouldn't they be out of print? Or do japs sell them used often?
I do too, but I do need to contact my TSs and QCs so we end up forming impromptu anonymous groups
There's lots of used manga on amazon for as cheap as 1 yen, there's also suruga-ya and yahoo auctions
Because my faggot friend didn't want to use his script anymore, said his translation was worse and I shouldn't bother.
You mean like how it is on Danbooru?
Why would you want to look at the raw while reading manga?
Original, unedited art I suppose.
To compare translation with the original.
That would just make people more aware that the tl sucks, which isn't in the group's best interest.
If you can't find it new you can still find most used stuff on manda or Amazon, and if you're going to gut the book to scan it anyway there's no really anything wrong with used manga.
Sounds like it was for the best.
Just download the raws or buy the tanks if you want to compare. That amount of work is totally unnecessary.
>why have a guy who agrees to typeset your translations all the time, instead of just relying on random people to typeset each individual one on the fly? Come on, user, this isn't difficult. Hell, a good number of translations are made available in text format, just like you're talking about, and no one fucking cares. There were literally dozens of translated 3-gatsu chapters sitting around untypeset for over a year straight before some random guy decided to typeset a few of them, which kicked the actual group into gear and then they did all of them in about a month.
There are at least two of those that I know of (Mangahelpers and the pay-site Manga Reborn), and both of them are pretty dead.
You forgot to mention that the translator threw a shitfit on twitter over it.
That was a fun day
Did you hear about his misadventures in Toriko fansubbing?
No actually. How did that go?
Orchestr/a/ here. Since our workflow is basically this type of bullshit organization, I think I have some insights on what a terrible idea it is.
Nothing will get done. Ever. Unless you tell people to do something that needs to be done to finish something, in which case why don't you just make a schedule in the first place? This kind of thing also means projects will be picked up and dropped constantly, you're going to piss off more readers than the groups who only pick up something for attention then drop it after 10 chapters.
The only reason we do this is because we can't possibly have the manpower to do every single part that's needed, so we cut corners by putting it out there and seeing what parts we can get done and discarding the rest. When you have a linear process like scanlation where every part is dependent on the next and everything needs to be done to be finished, that's not going to work. Not to mention you can't start typesetting before you have a script.
>why organize things when it can be an absolute clusterfuck instead?
Gee I wonder.
>DDL is better than bit torrent! its all organized! Distributed scanlating is the future you troglodyte.
Cause there aren't many good translators out there. I've learned to never even bother with chink translations. They are by far the least accurate.
DDL is better than torrent, you moron. Literally the only thing torrenting is good for is piracy.
I did exactly this for Osanaare. The translations were publicly available in a forum thread, the last typesetter dropped the series so I downloaded the raws and finished it myself.
I know this feeling. It's best if you pick stuff that's relatively obscure for your first few projects so you don't get sniped. Stuff that has been untranslated for 5+ years is a solid bet.
>DDL is better than torrent, you moron
>Why form groups for scanlating stuff? To ensure a regular schedule and accountability.
>make the translated script available publicly... Yeah, so some random 13 year old can shop it in with MS paint and do a shit job. What makes you think there are so many editors around in the first place, huh? Are you even one? Do you know how much time goes into doing this shit?
Sounds like someone got sniped.
>scanlators whine about being "sniped" by competitors >get super defensive over anyone taking "their" projects >meanwhile there are thousands upon thousands of series that nobody translates >mfw scanlation is just attention whoring and epeen measuring as groups fight over a tiny handful of titles that will make people care about them
This is why you learn Japanese then buy the manga from Japan. Most of them aren't even good at translating.
>learn japanese That's hard.
Man, you'd think he'd learn by now but he's still an egotistical fuck
Like your time is valuable.
>Why not just make the raw available to everyone Done. >make the translated script available publicly Done. >just wait for someone that will edit the text into the raw Someone like you? Because 80% of the Cred Forums population is exactly like you.
You have been spoiled in this new century. You're used to having subs less than an hour after an episode is released in whatever quality you like, having weekly chapters ahead of time and a vast catalog of scanlated doujinshi. Because you're so used to having everything go your way you stupidly believe there is an army of scanlators at your disposal, their fingers itching for things to do ASAP so you can read your manga.
I have news for you. Raws and translations are out there but no one gives a fuck. Why? Because everyone is like you. Instead of doing something about all those raws and translations you prefer to complain and wait for someone else to do it. Cleaners and typesetters don't grow on trees. If something hasn't been scanlated yet it's because no one cares, not because there's no raw or whatever. Nowadays it's very easy to get raws anyway. The hardest part is what comes next. There's a lot more translations available than before even if the quality is shit but there is no one willing to put the text in the pages. It's easier to wait for someone else to do it and complain when no one does. Hence translators and raw providers turn to groups because those get things done even if just to prevent someone from sniping, epeen or donations. It's not like they go after groups because they want, it's because it's the only way of doing something. For the longest time there was a project spreadsheet in the scanlation thread. It never worked. No one wants to work on a random project they don't like.
In short, this is all your fault OP. In the time you wasted making this thread you could have learn the basics of one of the trades and get to work.
>Raws and translations are out there but no one gives a fuck. Where?
>translate 288 chapters of manga >other group does the last one first to get the spike of ad revenue.
nyaa, senmanga, a few Japanese sites, and a few Japanese p2p networks that I haven't bothered looking into because I haven't needed them. When I don't find anything online, I can often buy the ebook from nipponese, or if that doesn't exist either, buy the physical copy and scan it myself.
Sorry, I missed a word, "... I can often buy the ebook from nipponese Amazon".
if you have the right rippers, ebj and rakuten work too
But where are the translations?
Archive, tumblr and google. If it's a spinoff manga or doujin there is a high chance you can get translations by asking in the series threads.
Wouldn't happen if they picked something that has been untranslated for years and is already complete. They could literally translate the entire thing and release it in one shot. Zero competition. But none of them will ever do projects like that because they'd get barely any epeen for it, and I doubt anyone in the group has even heard of manga like those because they don't read anything except mainstream titles.
well no, but it was a on going manga that a lot of people cared about
Oh wow, fuck me. I completely misread that part of your guys' conversation. I do my own translation/typesetting.
But to answer your question, there are a lot of live translation threads here on Cred Forums, for instance, that take a long time to get typeset, so while I haven't looked into it personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see translations out in the wild. You know how the boorus have toggle-able translation text-bubbles? I think there were (are?) a few sites that host raws and use that to essentially allow crowd-sourcing translations.
And which one was that?
In other words it was something that already had plenty of people translating it. You always see popular weekly stuff with multiple competing releases, because scanlators feel there's no point in working on something if they're not going to get sucked off by a lot of people over it.
More importantly, ad revenue. It's always been about the money. It used to be donations, now it's batoto bucks.
Guess I just have to keep learning Japanese.
I post my translations on batoto and don't see a cent. Not that I need it, but does batoto usually pay translators? I wasn't aware.
Batoto gives money to scanlators?
Batoto is the one making money out of your scanlations, you dolts.
Well batoto became shills the moment they started getting rid of 'offensive' manga
Jesus, you are missing out. There are scanlators out there who only release via Batoto.
Okay, good for them, but that doesn't mean anything for the scanlators, which I thought was the point you were trying to make.
Is there a way to dl all the volumes of a manga on madokami? Just checking before I write a script.
That's pretty much what I do already. I was putting them on madokami as well, but since they scrape batoto for the full-size images anyway, there's no point. I don't have a need for a site, so I just put chapters on mediafire and batoto.
Just Google "Batoto pay". It's the reason it exploded onto the scene and why everybody willingly downloads to just this one aggregator.
There wasn't competition. It's just a shitty thing people did for the last chapter Nisekoi
I'm not sure how it works, but probably you would need to register yourself as a group and not be a user.
>I just put chapters on mediafire and batoto That's not the same as only using Batato. These groups are literally jews.
Hmm, I made up a dumb moniker when I started uploading there because it's a requirement to add anything, but maybe there's some sort of "scanlator account"/vetting process I'm supposed to go through.
In any case, I don't need ad revenue for anything, I was just curious.
How much money are we talking here?
Oh, okay, so not even filehosting/torrent trackers, just batoto. I mean, I guess I don't really see the problem with it, unless you want to go into the morality of monetizing the original author's work without consent as opposed to doing it for free.
I figured since I remember the incident. Anytjing else you guys are doing now?
More to do with one day Batoto will disappear and so will everything these groups have ever made, spotty Goddess autouploads notwithstanding. Basically, anybody not from Cred Forums are superfucked.
>Basically, anybody not from Cred Forums are superfucked. Oh deary me whatever will we do
I don't see any of that in their TOS and they're playing safe copyright wise. I doubt they're paying anyone. You sure that wasn't something of the past before the renewal? Google results are dated from 2011.
Right, that's a good point. That was one of the big fears when MT went down too, that we would be losing a lot of stuff and maybe not even knowing it. But really, madokami isn't Cred Forums's secret club anymore. Reddit knows about it too, so I assume the internet at large probably does as well.
Well it's a shady business. But it's hard to square the idea that nobody is getting paid with the fact that the only aggregrator that gets uploads is Batoto and all the other aggregators have to take their pages from Batoto.
I couldn't care less about madokami after their new changes. Now it's just a deposit of content that's available elsewhere so I'll get it elsewhere when it dies. Good riddance.
Maybe the reason why they're not translated is because they're garbage?
Sorry, I must be out of the loop. What changes are those? From your reaction, they must be pretty severe.
Madokami will disappear one day too, and the only source of clean pages will be those few rare species known as scanlator websites.
That has more to do with the other sites being shittier. This is the first time I hear they pay the scanlators. I'll believe it when someone proves it.
It was a thing back in the day, but they ran into legal issues so it's not a thing anymore.
5 fucking minutes on google, holy shit.
What did they change? Someone will start something new.
They most certainly used to, that much is certain. >Now it's just a deposit of content that's available elsewhere
That's why I thought madokami was only supposed to be a temporary bandage. The original plan wasn't even to host a server, it was to put everything into a few big torrents on nyaa. But as long as qqueue is willing to keep the server up, and if he's able to give us ample warning before it dies, then nothing's gotten worse, just delayed, which isn't terrible.
Raws aren't allowed anymore. Some people were using it to dump raws they scanned themselves.
And each time the chance of just huge chunks of data just disappearing grows. Mangatraders data was only saved because the owner sold the data for bitcoins. if nobody coughed up all of that would had been lost forever.
Well, MT data would have been saved by the efforts to scrape everything. It was only thanks to HS memelords that the owner decided to close shop before month-end, right?
I'm pretty sure people have mirrored madokami, I'll probably buy a couple hdds and do it myself.
Because that makes it incredibly hard to get a hold of the translator if they missed a line or need to clear something up, and leads to incredibly irregular releases with widely varied quality.
The freelance style is great for doing a couple of chapters fast, but anything more than that and you want a group, even if it's an informal group working on one series.
OP needs to actually try participating before talking shit. Series, raws, and scripts shouldn't be treated as group's "private property" but at the other end of the spectrum, no groups at all is also a terrible idea.
That's lame. Did the raw uploaders get scattered to the wind or is there main places for them?
Having everything in a single place is always a bad idea.
>Because that makes it incredibly hard to get a hold of the translator if they missed a line or need to clear something up Make a issue notice and then anyone can branch the translation to patch it.
Distrubted raw and scanlation using blockchain.
>Series, raws, and scripts shouldn't be treated as group's "private property" So should I post my scripts, raws, and .xcds somewhere? I feel like there wouldn't be any interest.
Yeah, that's what he claimed but it was way too dodgy and inconsistent to be anything more than a cash grab. >Gonna close up guise, no more money left. >What's this? 9001 months of donations? Ok I'll keep it open, better start archiving >Fuck this shit, I'm closing tomorrow. Have fun.
How vulnerable is blockchain to a majority attack (is that the right nomenclature?) Sorry, I haven't paid much attention to bitcoin etc., but I've thought the idea of using blockchain for p2p file exchange had merit (at least in my head), and I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.
Well I know there were at least a few days of archiving efforts before the user data got swiped, it wasn't literally the next day, but otherwise I see what you're saying. I guess I didn't pay as much attention to the whole thing as I thought.
Put it in a google doc, those raw text code depositories, a tinyurl or anything. Most likely nobody will be interested. The only time I recall it ever having results is when a reasonably popular manga meets a motivated typesetter.
That's pretty unfortunate. It would had been a lot more convenient than the normal raw sources.
Raw uploaders stopped scanning. The most retarded part of all of this was that the excuse for cutting the raws was space and yet they still have the automatic aggregator ripping scripts activated. All of them. There's thousands of multiple copies of the same manga being made every day from multiple sites in glorious shit quality hogging a lot more space than the raws and they're doing absolutely nothing about it.
>Make a issue notice and then anyone can branch the translation to patch it. Sounds like a great formula for nothing getting finished ever.
I've had occasions where I had to approach other translators to get missed panels translated, and unless it's a very short line, no one enjoys trying to blend different translations. Just look at any series that's passed through multiple groups: it's usually a clusterfuck of different styles, romanizations, ability levels, etc.
A good quality release should actually have communication between all the people working on it. Having to track down a new translator every time the editor or QC wants to change something is ridiculous.
Sometimes you have to try to drum up interest around here, sometimes no force on Earth will get people interested. Put everything in one location for easy access, bring it up in a few scanlation threads, post a few pages in OPTs, and see if it catches.
No one should be touching the translation unless they're on the same level or above the translator anyway unless it's an undecipherable ESL mess. I know this editor that fucks the translation so badly that characters are no longer the same by the time he finishes.
Oh no, I wasn't saying that I need help on a project. I think at least for now, I enjoy working alone on my stuff, even if it takes more time.
I was just wondering if that Cred Forumsnon was saying I should make my resources available for other people somehow. For instance, if someone were to translate into a non-English language, they might be interested in my .xcds, with text removed and redraws. I just assume that if someone wanted it, they could send an email my way, and in the meantime, putting them up somewhere is a bit pointless.
Eh, when I say >Series, raws, and scripts shouldn't be treated as group's "private property" I'm referring to the types of groups that act like they can lay claim on a series, and pitch fits if another group also picks it up or retranslates to other languages. I see that as the opposite extreme to what OP is talking about.
Oh okay, right on. Groups like that can fuck right off, and it's made me kind of self-conscious to pick a series up, even after the original group has been dead for a year.
Don't mind them. They'll just bitchfit. You're free to do what you want. Especially if the series has been dead for a year
Sure, I was just thinking that it's pretty sad how ingrained that line of thinking is, that I would be concerned about stepping on someone else's toes after a year of inactivity.
Ahh I was like that too. Then I thought of it as interim scanning then it kinda went away