Now that the dust has settled can we all agree Duke3D > Doom?

Now that the dust has settled can we all agree Duke3D > Doom?

Someone made a Duke3d .wad for Doom 2 and all .wads are canon, Duke is Doomguy with plot reasons to be weak in Duke3D universe.

Played Duke 3D recently on Vita. Megaton edition.

Some of the level design is pretty bad but I really enjoyed this game.

Episode 1 and 3 are great.
Episode 2 and 4 are shit.

[Spoiler]I have never beat a doom game or even layed past the 3rd level

Not a fair comparison, given that Duke3D came out 3 years after Doom and was more or less built off of Doom's design principles.

Also, Duke3D had some wonky level design at points, trying to do verticality in a 2.5D environment.

Both tackle their subject matter in really juvenile ways, but Duke goes about it way worse.

You can't compare two games because they released 3 years apart? Seriously?

Duke3D had 3 years to take Doom's design and fix flaws in it. Saying that it's better is a mix of "no shit" and "the level design isn't better".

So you can never compare Doom 1 to Doom 2?

You can, and Doom 2 is lacking in terms of level design as well. It improved the bestiary of Doom as well as the weaponry, but the levels turned into sausages of enemies and monster closets.

The thing is that comparing Doom to Duke3D is like comparing Super Mario Brothers to Commander Keen. Both are technically of the same genre, but the latter is mostly an improvement on the first given extra time to learn from the former's mistakes. A more fair comparison would have been to an FPS released around the same time as Duke3D, like Quake 2.

Duke3D was a lot more advanced in terms of level design and what they could do. You can't place sectors on top of eachother in Doom. It's like comparing Quake with Unreal despite the 2 year gap between them.

From a level design perspective, absolutely. Doom has its charms but Duke's levels went a lot further to look like environments, and still managed to be extremely functional from a gameplay perspective.

Elaborate.

He is triggered by videogames not taking themselves seriously.

Actually you can't put sectors over each other I'm build engine either. What they usually did was have an invisible teleport between floors

Yes you can. You just can't display them at the same time. That's where portals come in.

>played Duke 3D on vita
>never beat Doom

Why do you think your opinion matters?

This.
Very well put. You know your shit.

Duke3D came out before Quake. After Quake, everything had to be 3D.

Duke3D was 1996, Quake 1 was 1995.

That's not true sector over sector. Look at the map sometime when you fall between sectors. You physically change regions when it happens.

No it wasn't. Fact check before spouting misinformation.

I think this is oversimplifying it,
but I really do miss the mixture of sprites in a 3D environment.
Dume and Dook and Dyablo all used that style really well and the idea of that but with HD sprites excites me.

I don't know how anybody can claim with a straight face that Keen is better designed than Mario Bros. I'm going to have to assume your opinion is trash.

Not better designed, at least from an artstyle standpoint, but there's definitely more going on gameplay wise.

That's my entire point.

Commander Keen came out several years after SMB and improved upon it in every way, especially on a technical level. You can argue about semantics all you want, but from a mechanical and technical standpoint, CK is a straight improvement. Also RIP Tom Hall.

>from a mechanical and technical standpoint, CK is a straight improvement.
How do you figure? Just more memory to store background art and the like? Because I can't figure a way the mechanics of the gameplay were better.

Go read Masters of Doom. Carmack started CK development by entirely reverse-engineering SMB, then writing a better method of paralax scrolling from scratch. From there, they created pretty much everything else.

And from a gameplay perspective, it was far better. Larger variety of enemies, limited ammo meant you had to pick and choose your fights, mostly non-linear progression, pogostick made for more interesting platform puzzles, and they even managed to slip games into the pause menu in the later games.

Reminder that pic related had true 3D environments and physics the same year Wolfenstein3D came out.

It exists for a lot of games trying to emulate old-fashioned RPGs. Might and Magic is the last series I can think of that had true 3D environments with sprite characters in a first person perspective.

You are delusional. The only impressive thing about Commander Keen is how they got a smooth scrolling platformer to work on such shit hardware.