Should males and females of the same class have different stats depending of their gender?

yeah
if its realistic
no
if its not realistic

It's a fucking video game

Why are a bunch of out of shape hunchback "gamers" getting all insecure about bitches having the same stats as the dudes?

Nah, it wouldn't be based on anything other than arbitrary differences because if you tried making it realistic it would just piss too many people off, it's better to just have different classes if you want different stats.

Since people make such a big stink about realism these days, yes they should. What's that? You bitched about the armor female characters wear being unrealistic? Okay, let's make it realistic then. Now they have reduced strength, stamina, and wisdom. They also get negatives in all physical combat roles. There's your realism.

Like in Pokemon gold and silver?

Yes. This is what ive been thinking all along.
Males should benefit strength, and females agility.

Have women be weaker to ice because they're cold all the time

Morrowind did it, and it was fantastic.

It should absolutely be a feature in every RPG that lets you play as either gender.

What the fuck is up with that, is it only because they're smaller or do they naturally have a lower core temp than men of the same size?

no because realism for the sake of realism is retarded

Think it has something to do with them having physically thinner skin than men

Isn't that already how it usually is? Isn't that how it is in the TES games?

Why? What the fuck does that add?

If you wanted to be realistic you would give players a scale of potential stats, which would render such a system irrelevant because all players would max it out.

Yeah, unless it's some ultra realistic simulator, differences in stats just serve to frustrate players.

Why can't I play an agile male character? Or a Stronk as fuck female? Just because of some shit attempt at realism, usually in a game that doesn't attempt realism at all? If you're in a fantasy game you're already wielding huge as fuck weapons, doing crazy ninja flips and casting magic and shit. Why, of all the things, must gender differences be what's meant to be realistic?

Yes

>in the TES games
It was taken out of Skyrim, but Skyrim is hardly even an RPG in the first place.

I'd imagine it has something to do with how much mass you have compared to skin exposed to the outside.

>men's brains are, on average, between 10 and 15 per cent larger than women's
theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2013/oct/06/male-brain-versus-female-brain
Even the gaurdian admits to this but tries to downplay every difference they can as one would expect from such a site.
No one has the balls to even dare try to accurately portray such a thing, how would you even handle this without being publicly lynched?

Why do women get increased agility/dexterity?

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Flexibility, I guess.

Bigger cerebellum.

>Should

Designer preference.

Or more likely you are just a stupid faggot.

>Morrowind stats
>relevant except the first few levels

Pick one.

What? I just reposted a segment of an article, those are not my words.
Or are you talking about the largeness thing?

A High Elf is going to have a way easier time being a mage than an Orc, friend, I can tell you that.

This is one of those things a lot of faggots say yes to without actually thinking of it from a design standpoint.

Giving them different stats would just make players that like things such as female tanks or male rogues play with a sub-optimal character. Those that don't like those things wouldn't choose them in the first place and thus wouldn't even be affected by this change.

Gender should always be aesthetic outside of dialogue and story changes.

Yeah, women should do more damage to female characters with less charisma, and also should be at least 200% easier to sell useless bullshit to.

What about women having higher starting cock skills but the cap for cocking is higher for males. They can get more points in total in that stat.

In video games what difference does it make? It's a video game. It's already a fantasy. What kind of person would give even the slightest of fucks?

You took a bit from the article and came to a conclusion without taking everything else in it into account. Also things like intelligence and the human brain is still not that well understood.

Do you also think different races shouldn't have different stats so nobody can have a sub-optimal build?
Should a gnome/halfling/little people race be as tough and as strong as the orcs and half-giants?

I didn't come to a conclusion, I just highlighted a very relevant bit to show that there is no way to approach that without controversy and why it wouldn't happen.

then every game would be a sausage fest as men would be both stronger and faster

>What kind of person would give even the slightest of fucks?

me

i care about game play in video game

>male rogues play with a sub-optimal character.
Why? Women should recieve penalties to everything that isnt bearing children.
Devs could introduce fuckable npc or something

>that isnt bearing children.
Well, I mean.
Even then

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>then every game would be a sausage fest as men would be both stronger and faster

Yeah, well, that's how it is. The only reason we have playable female characters is because of sex appeal.

Hey pussy fag gtfo to reddit

This is exactly what I mean with you faggots failing to look at it from a design standpoint.

>Races have different stats
>Orc and half-giant races have higher strength and endurance and are therefore intended for melee/tanking
>Females have less strength and endurance
>Literally no reason to make a female orc or half-giant ever

>Elves have higher dexterity and charisma and are intended to be archers/bards/rogues
>Males have lower dexterity and charisma than females
>Literally no reason to make a male elf ever

You're directly harming racial choices by limiting what genders are even viable for most of the races unless you make the gender differences minor to the point there's no point in even having them.

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yes
as long as the female model doesn't look exactly like the male model they should have differing stats

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>This is exactly what I mean with you faggots failing to look at it from a design standpoint.

you're fucking stupid

if you designed a game there would only be the 3 classes with 1 ability each (do damage, pull aggro, heal)

i guess you've never played a game for any reason other than to be the most cookie cutter faggot imaginable

That's a different matter entirely and you know it. It's no question that people feel differently to being forced to play as a certain race than being forced to play as a certain gender.

>Literally no reason to make a female orc or half-giant ever

>Literally no reason to make a male elf ever

If you want to there's no reason not to, advantages and disadvantages are a part of the experience.

If you took that from my post you're clearly inbred chum.

You don't want to roleplay.
You just want to enforce minmaxing as the only way to play.

well, largeness does not necessarily mean it's better
whales have brains the size of a fucking human being and we still developed way faster than them
if anything, a smaller size is more efficient as it takes less times for neurons to interface between themselves
it's just sexual dimorphism really, but not inherently positioning one gender above the other

>I enjoy being suboptimal and holding the party back

Nah, Women should receive benefits to speech. They're far better manipulators than men

True

Why do they always get Dex though

I can clearly roleplay better than you if I can imagine the female paladin in my party is as tough as most men without arbitrary stat restrictions ruining my party setup to sate some faggot's autism.

because all stat based games have dex but not all stat based games have a speech skill?

Yes actually, and women should be weaker, so that I can play as a cute girl who is helpless and has to depend on everyone.

Does that mean I can roleplay better than you if I can imagine an ant being the toughest and strongest being in the game's universe?

Except the disadvantages between men and women will always revolve around men having higher strengh/endurance and women always having higher dexterity/charisma. That's completely different from racial differences and adds absolutely nothing to the experience whatsoever.

I can clearly roleplay better than you if I can imagine the dwarf barbarian in my party is as tough as most half-giants without arbitrary stat restrictions ruining my party setup to sate some faggot's autism.

video games

Epic hyperbole

Most devs don't do this already because they're aware it's fucking retarded and I doubt that's going to change. There's nothing more to be said.

>That's completely different from racial differences
Big race always has higher strength
Dorfs always have higher constitution
Elves dexterity, it's the same

>and adds absolutely nothing to the experience whatsoever
Except how you approach situations and your likely success based on your advantages and disadvantages

videogames are not real life.

What would be better is having a points pool to distribute towards stats which would be reflected in the players model.

There's a somewhat reasonable explanation in that player characters tend to start as relative novices. An average male can be a warrior while only women in the top 1% are physically capable of such a thing. But the thing is, because player character usually starts as a unexceptional warrior, the female characters are exceptional and males are not (because a similarly exceptional male wouldn't start out as a nobody). Moreover, most games don't take place on Earth so it's also reasonable to think sexual dimporphism isn't as strong as within our own species.

Anyway, there's a more critical issue in that in virtually every system, combat resolution and statistics in general have no relation to how things work in real world. For example, a stronger character often does more damage with a sword while in reality plate armour for example is invulnerable to cuts by any human. Conversely, a sharp sword is going to cut unarmoured opponents with little to no strength required. Obviously, strength is useful in combat (for starters, it translates to being able to wield your weapon with little effort and consequently being faster and having higher fighting stamina) but in most systems the statistics are completely abstract and arbitrarily so they might as well be arbitrarily assigned for characters. Moreover, attributes like height (giving a crucial reach advantage) tend to be omitted.

Giving different sexes different statistics when those statistics don't actually mean anything concrete is a fool's errand, keep that design in FATAL. Once you have plausible combat resolution, this kind of design starts being more appropriate.

Stats should be based on race, sex and size. Example -

>Humans - None. Size: Medium
>High Elves - +2 to APP, -2 to CHA. Size: Medium
>Grey Elves - +2 to INT, - 2 to CON. Size: Medium
>Wood Elves - +2 to DEX, -2 to STR. Size: Medium
>Dark Elves - +2 to DEX, -2 to CHA. Size: Medium
>Dwarves - +2 to CON, -2 to CHA. Size: Small.
>Hobbits - +2 to DEX, -2 to STR. Size: Small.
>Gnomes - +2 to INT, -2 to STR. Size: Small.
>Goblins - +2 to INT, -2 to CHA. Size: Small.
>Kobolds - +2 to DEX, -2 to CHA. Size: Small.
>Orcs - +2 to STR, -2 to CHA. Size: Medium
>Centaurs - +2 to CON, -2 to CHA. Size: Large
>Fairies - +2 to DEX, -2 to STR. Size: Tiny
>Pixies - +2 to LUC, -2 to STR. Size: Tiny
>Imps - +2 to WIS, -2 to STR. Size: Small
>Males get +2 either STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS or CHA, depending on racial modifiers.
>Females get +2 to either WIS, CHA or APP, depending on racial modifiers.
>Large Races get -2 to AC
>Small Races get +2 to AC
>Tiny Races get +4 to AC

>Except how you approach situations and your likely success based on your advantages and disadvantages
Why not just let people distribute their stat points? Or let them roll for stats or pick from stat templates? Why do they have to be tied to race and gender?

Because reasons.

Sometimes Yes sometimes No because statistical differences are more fun

how fucking shit.

no because gameplay is the most important thing and i dont want my class choice to be worse because i picked the gender with stats that dont match it some reason i dont really like racial stats and abilities

I like the idea of sizes.
I want to be able to explore places my larger party members can't get to

not only are the bodies between men and women different, the bodies between every individuals are different aswell

I've seen women that would scare the shit out of you aswell as very frail ans tender guys

don't know why they shouldn't also appear in videogames sometimes if the creators want them to appear, valkyria chronicles did it well

oh I assure you you're anything but optimal in so many online games

If we are talking about gameplay like morrowind then yes but if we talk about gameplay like skyrim no

Stats should be randomized by internal dice roll after class and gender is chosen. Leave objective stat manipulation to leveling up.

In this manner the system is intentionally flawed an universally unfair to everyone at the start and therefore pure. No one gets an objective advantage unless they put in the work.

Of course autists will bitch at this, but let them, bitching is all they have, it's what they chose to level.

The charisma is really debatable. I understand that women can more easily influence men through sex appeal but in terms of leaders men almost always better/more charismatic, so it depends on the situation really.

I'll just keep rerolling until I get numbers I like.

You have 10 seconds to name something women are superior than men at that both genders are biologically capable of doing.

Making my penis hard.

If that's what you want, yes. Nothing wrong with putting in work in that regard. It's your time to waste.

Complaining

Multitasking ;O

Manipulation. Your average woman has the same manipulation ability as your average male Jew.

Not making retarded posts like this

Socializing.
Women are more social than men.

No, It punishes you if you want to go as a mace wielding girl in thick armor or a male bow man.
Genders and skin colour should only be cosmetic.

He's right you know.

But that is wrong you fag lord of the fail lands.

Why are you posting like it's 2008?

Wanting to be included in whatever men are doing to entertain themselves.

They have a far greater biological need to gravitate toward gathering at a point of intrest then men, especially when men are involved.

Why are you posting like a retard?

oh shit i'm sorry
epic fail.... -_-

Getting men to kill each other

Sure, as long as I can play a male character with female stats and a feminine appearance.

*hugs you*
is ok :3

You serious homeboy?

Getting teen pregnant

*pushes you away*
I-I can't...

>Implying that vegitarian faggot was a man

>Game feature superhumans
>Fucks given about stats
Pick one

Camwhoring

Doesn't Dragons Dogma do this and similar things when differing sizes come up?

>No, if I want to be a rogue, and females get extra dex/agility/whatever, I shouldn't be punished with worse stats for playing a male.

Men are still faster than women.

Female characters would get a charisma bonus, because people have an implicit bias in favour of women.

>implying
You're missing out on some of life's greatest experiences, friend.

>Should males and females of the same class have different stats depending of their gender?

Depends on what you're going for.

If you've got some fantasy RPG shit going on, with dragons and wizards flying everywhere, no.

If you're doing a ultra autism military simulation, yes.

The more a character weighs, the more weight they can carry but the less stamina they have if I remember rightly.

An intelligent and convincing rebuttal.

Nah, it's a god damned fantasy game. If your character can already do things that are impossible for a normal human, who gives a fuck if you're a male or female? Besides, I don't want to be stuck with a fucking gender just because it's more optimal for a build.

>implying Hitler personally killed people

>implying you know how to read

>Implying people don't actually dislike chainmail bikinis just because they look dumb.
Look deep inside, you know it to be true.
Women in full plate are hotter, it's all about showing enough to get someone interested, but not showing too much.

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Damn, you really should kill yourself

Only towards heterosexual men, and gay women. Gay men should nullify this bonus and straight women should incur a penalty as women are notoriously catty and passive aggressive around each other.

I'm not one to dismiss chainmail bikinis, because that shit is fucking cash. But yes, there is something about women in full plate that gets the penis in my heart all excited

They should only be superficial.

Females should definitely have lower-than-average strength, but only maybe 5% lower, not enough to break the build.

I just can't get into chainmail bikinis, I don't know why. I'm even a fan of loincloths on woman characters if it thematically fits, like she's a wild woman of sorts. But something just seems off about having skimpy chainmail, it doesn't ever look right.

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Men are faster than women, no bonus agi.

You can have bonus mele resistance in you make fat women due to extra chushin for more pushin.

Dragon's Dogma had a surprisingly neat system for this where height and weight changed how much you could carry and how long your endurance bar would last. There were benefits and costs to all extremes and it wasn't solely limited by gender.

Really it comes down to the Devs and the direction they want to take their game. I think for a lot of high fantasy it's not really worth putting too much thought into physical appearance effecting game-play. People want to play a fantasy and that is fine.

A trade off is the best option if you're going to have gender influence in game mechanics. That way it's more of a relevant option and less a way of handicapping yourself or picking the stronger option.

You could always play as a woman for hard mode.

Say that to my musclegirl waifu and see what happens, nerd

>Males should benefit strength, and females agility.

If it was really realistic, men would pretty much on average have a general advantage over women in physical terms, strength, speed, toughness from the larger size and higher percentage muscle for body mass and testosterone, ect, and better spatial awareness, threat detection and determination, and pain resistance.

The areas where women would be superior to men would be in areas like greater language capability, greater ability to distinguish colors, generally longer life span, and greater ability to socialize and form social groups, remembering landmarks and specific items or areas.

>men would be both stronger and faster

Men wouldn't be as good at language and forming social bonds and other group dynamics, and women do seem to overall have an advantage in dexterity.

No.

I think body type/size should have different stats

male and female should just be cosmetic and you should have a sliding scale for body types and that changes your stats

dragon's dogma did something close to this they just needed to add stuff like
wider shoulders for more str
wider torso for more vit/con
longer legs means longer stride
longer arms could be more dextrous
total body weight is tied to speed
big head is more int
heck even have a charisma stat for boobs/ass they don't gotta have thicc could just be more than irish flat even for guys

Yeah, and taller characters can jump higher to reach places that children cant
There are some (very few) holes that short people can walk through that regular people cant, in some dungeons

Fatter characters are knocked around less too

>generally longer life span

Until around 1900 men and women actually had basically the same life span. In any pre-industrial world a longer life span for women doesn't really make any sense.

>I think body type/size should have different stats
>male and female should just be cosmetic and you should have a sliding scale for body types and that changes your stats
this guy gets it.

>Women in full plate are hotter
my nigga

>women do seem to overall have an advantage in dexterity.

That's more for the fingers, not larger motions like using a dagger.

Stats should be based on how the character looks.
If you make a brick wall bearded russian woman, the strength should be high, and if you make a twink "just like my animes" piece of twig guy, he should be fucking weak.

So, if you want to be a busty curvy woman, you're not being very strong.

No, but I wouldn't mind some more gender-locked scenarios. For example, seducing Benny as a woman in FO:NV
What they really need is more non-standard body types for both men and women - eg. big stronk women paladins, dainty anime fuccbois, Beefy McBroadshoulders, pandering: loli edition, etc.

Way too many games, unfortunately including RPGs, just use the same model for everyone, and a barely-there body slider for some. Dragons Dogma was good for it, though.

Also, armour and clothing customisation.

Having dicks inside them. Men are inferior at this because we unforunatly have one less place to put dicks

Not really. Maybe if the game has point buying with differing costs between genders or some complete bullshit like that and/or actually thinks about what its stats mean but otherwise it's just an annoyance.
To have stat differences between genders just assumes that every single character is just a middle of the bell curve for a general population character that randomly decided that they'd just go off and be X starting class.

I'm reading the wiki and I'm pretty sure it's more than that also because weight has to do with height.
Like being able to dart between the legs of larger monsters, having more/less reach, being able to enter goblin holes and being able to wade through different depths of water with a lantern has to do with height for instance.
Heavier characters resist strong wind, activate pressure plates faster and can't be carried off by harpies as easily among other things.

>Everyone just complains about how annoying it is to have to go through doors sideways and crouching all the time.

It's a fictional video game, play who you want. If you want to be a tiny loli that can pick up a huge hammer or an incredibly waifish and effeminite male, then knock yourself out.

>doesn't wear helmet
fuck you

The game should take a genetic sample and you get a 75% stat penalty for not playing your own gender.

Stats are not realistic to begin with and as such have no obligation to consider biological limitations.
There, argued it. Now fuck off.

How else would you see her pretty face and luscious hair?

>game with gender differences by stats

>males have more strength
>women have more intelligence

yes and females should have zero bleed resistance regardless of equipment

>all archers in fantasy are spindly men or women
>also no game dev understands how a bow actually works because they've only ever touched a nerf bow
>a bow's primary stat is dexterity

That image gives me cancer.
That aside though, the main reason why longbowmen had to be strong was because they had to hold the bow at full draw while waiting for the firing command.
Depending on the contruction of the bow it does not take all that much strength to do a quick draw and release at which point you would need dexterity to quickly take aim.

>That image gives me cancer.

:^)

>bow string over her left arm
>hand guard obviously interferes with aim
>quiver turned to the wrong side
>bow string looks like the tips are glued to the wood
That is a special kind of disgusting.

>You have 10 seconds to name something women are superior than men at that both genders are biologically capable of doing.

Distinguishing colors.

Forming social bonds.

Language prowess.

>it's easy to draw 130 lb bow :^)

>Forming social bonds.

Women are 99 times more likely to stab each other in the back than men

>all this talk about how male's have brains that are more catered to these specific tasks task eg spatial awareness
>females have brains catered more towards specific tasks eg language
Psychfag here. It's really not that simple

Human brains do not just fit into gender categories. Yes, all of our brains seem to share a patchwork of some sort with our gender and indeed some traits are more common in males, while others more common in females. But take notice to "more common", there are out-liars of course. There are males that excel in subjects that are commonly associated with females and vice versa. You can't simply put anything as complex as the human brain into two general categories no matter the subject.

In fact I have have met living proof of this. I used to work as a school physiologist in a private high school. Putting it simply my job was to analyse the children ways of learning and try and help the teachers to cater for it. But I digress, I met a male child who was at the age of 15, after some time I of looking at his work and listening to what teachers had to say about him. I was authorized to conduct a wechsler intelligence test under the consent of the child and his parents. When he finished what I found out that he had the spacial awareness (and among other things to do with mental 3D visual imagery processing) of a 7 year old while his auditory and language was that of a well educated 23 year old.

Even girls who had poor spacial awareness performed better than him but had less language comprehension

>cont
If such a game mechanic was employed in games then the albeit small number of people who did not fit into such categories would have to be shoe horned into something they may not want to be.

It's isn't.
But you don't need a bow with anywhere near 130lbs to kill someone with it.

Of course. The more ways you can play a game the better right?