Can somebody please explain why people don't like this game...

Let's just skip the fake conversation and get to the best part. BEES

Because the first game was novel and impressive in a way that the sequel wasn't. It doesn't matter that the gameplay was better, it wasn't as surprising or interesting as the original.
One and Infinite stand out as being fairly unique in setting, and to some degree in storyline. 2 doesn't feel unique at all.

That said, I think 1>2>a million dicks >Infinite, but whatever.

a different developer recycling the setting of a game which made an impact in large part because of its uniqueness, blatantly marketing-driven choices like token multiplayer and WHAT IF *YOU* WERE BIG DADDY, a dismal opening hour, and generally fewer memorable characters, areas, and moments worked strongly against its perception.

over time, and especially in contrast to the backlash against infinite, the severity of these issues has faded a lot, and the game's strenghts - better combat, a more convincing emotional core, an ending hour that doesn't shit itself, etc. - have become more widely acknowledged. having a really great piece of dlc in minvera's den helped too

If it's anything like the first game, it's probably really boring to play.

I was probably more into video games in 2010 than I ever was in my entire life. For some reason the one before this and the one after this were both huge but this one was only talked about for a week after it came out, but the reaction was still positive for that week.

I think over the past week since The Collection came out people have been revisiting Bioshock 2 en masse and finding new appreciation for it.

its the new vegas of bioshock series.

I was reading around for bioshock lore and it stated that the seas lugs would produce more ADAM if they were in little girls

how did the little girls produce them? they shat it out or something?

>that part where eleanor put delta in the body of a little sister and then picked him up

It was cute if you saved all the sisters up until then

I couldn't get into it. What I liked about 1 was how you discoevered Rapture and how it gripped you with building a world and deconstructing it.

I didn't play that much 2, but I felt like it was just rehashing 1. Seeing all these threads though, I might actually try it again after all these years.

I actually fuckin love this game
I love having little goons follow me around and placing traps and shit
And then I have a little sister that I have to defend and get money for cooler shit
It's just fun

because it didn't have le epic twist

1 = best story, atmosphere (since it introduced the location)
2 = best gameplay
Infinite = best graphics

Since gameplay is the most important aspect of a game, in my opinion Bioshock 2 is the best game in the series

assuming they were killed then the ADAM was extracted

Yi devised the concept to recycle ADAM from dead bodies which again required little sisters

That is a huge demand of little girls that I'm not sure Rapture can provide

Because the main pro of the first game was discovering Rapture and the worldbuilding through the environments and level design. Its core gameplay is largely just passable.

Since Bioshock 2 didn't have this novelty, you're really just left with an average shooter. Yes, the gameplay is improved, but none of the Shock games have gameplay that rises above decent at best. You could easily improve Planescape Torment's combat and RPG mechanics in a sequel, but it wouldn't be worthwhile if the character interaction and world wasn't on equal ground.

Not to mention the bullet-sponge big sisters that weren't fun to fight and not nearly as interesting as Big Daddies, the focus on escorting little sisters (the worst part of the first game), the garbage multiplayer, and the unmemorable environments.

Some of the little sister escorty shit was kind of annoying and you can use freeze + drill charge throughout the game because it's really effective but you get it super early on. Other than that it was pretty good bio kino.

Because in every aspect except gameplay it was inferior to it's predecessor.

...

Moron.

1.Sea slug is put in stomach
2. Girl drinks ADAM infused blood
3. Some shit happens
4. Girl vomits up tons of ADAM after a while

>how did the little girls produce them? they shat it out or something?

initially little sisters were hosts to the slugs and they produced adam at a much higher rate and (i dont remember exactly which) they puked it up or it was just drawn from them like blood.

after the war started little sisters were menially conditioned as "gatherers" by suchong and they walked around with big daddies and drank the blood of dead splicers, which with the slugs, essentially recycled adam over and over.

when you play the game you use tenenbaums plasmid to 'extract' the slug and the adam and you pretty much reset the sisters back to normal children. otherwise you just rip out the slug and the trauma kills the sister and the slug, but you get a larger dose of adam.

>Infinite = best graphics

pls

the art direction in infinite is so boring

everything is bright af

I don't know whether I should be happy that you agree with me, or disappointed that an anime poster agrees with me

youtube.com/watch?v=gm9Eta491O8

Yeah I agree but it still had the best graphics out of the 3. Obviously because it was released several years after which isn't really fair, but that's all Infinite had going for it in comparison to the other 2 games

I see, thanks

Anyone knows why people want to take over Rapture? After the war, the Splicers killed all the sane people and all there is left is very few survivors, big daddies, little sisters and splicers

It's also not like you can get new people inside because no one knows where it is

>get bioshock
>it can't even get what is essentially a fucking FPS right
>swear off bioshock forever
I don't care if people tell me BS2 makes me rich and drowns me in pussy, I ain't getting it. I've fell for the "buy it, it's good, we swear" bullshit with modern games before.

>same retard that called Infinite one of the greatest games he ever played

Fucking kill yourself.

>Bioshock 1 & 2
>modern

Also sweet contrarian opinions bro.

IT IS MODERN YOU FUCKING HMONG.
>wow 5 years ago, so looooong
FUCKING KILL YOURSELF
if he buys it, and likes it, he's a shill
if he doesn't, he's a contrarian hipster

my god, I really am in the shithole of the internet

fuck you and fuck everyone who replies to these fucking hourly threads god fucking damn

are you off your meds

Really? Bioshock Infinite was psuedo2deep normie trash with horrible CoDified gameplay. It was so fucking boring, I only forced my way through the last 5 hours or so to be able to tell myself I beat the trilogy. 1 & 2 were great.

>Anyone knows why people want to take over Rapture?

at first it started as a power struggle. fontaine wanted to exploit the flawed, top heavy class system and take over for himself. then the discovery of adam happened and that became a massive source of power. remember ryan had cut contact from the outside world so none of the 'parasites' could come in and corrupt everything. whoever controlled the city could not only manufacture adam (and all the resulting plasmids) but sell it to the outside world, and control the only source of it. its essentially unlimited wealth.

4 years and counting
great addition to the troll thread user
jsyk bioshock has always been shit
take it from me, ex heroine/cocaine addict, who quit cold turkey 4 years ago
with and without the drugs, the games are garbage.

okay then why would Sofia Lamb give a shit about Rapture?

Bingo

??????????

What are you talking about OP?

holy buzzwords, I agree but stop talking like a fucking retard.

Deservedly so, but he's obviously talking about the internet opinion.

But Bioshock 2 was a better game than its predecessor

The story was nonsensical and the gameplay was worse because they casualized it for the normies.

Same thing with Mass Effect. 1>2>3

Not really, BS2 actually improves on the gameplay.

1 on hard was fun.
Maps were good and explore friendly.
Weapons had a purpose.
Plasmids were a must.
Tougher enemies were hard.

2 on hard was retarded.
You just drill the bosses.
Plasmids were a mere toy.
Weapons had no purpose (rivet gun and machine gun had the same role). You can't stealth properly.
Maps were OK though.

don't be so open about being a pleb user

>gameplay was worse

Objectively wrong.

Bioshock 2 actually has more interesting combat than the first game.

Also, how was the story nonsensical?

No one thinks Bioshock 2 is the worst, clearly Infinite is the worst.

>it's another 'the gameplay was actually fun so that means they casualized it' episode

Bioshock 2 haters are absolute subhuman scum, its one of the greatest pleb filters after Witcher 1.

It's where the ADAM and all the imprints of the allstar super educated scientists and artists Ryan invited to Rapture left in that ADAM are. And still a really good and private supervillain lair even with 10 years of rust.

actually the twist is that there is no twist

>le epic big faggy gameplay is better than horror survival

Fuck that shit taste.

>because they casualized it for the normies.
I beat bioshock 1 on hard using just a wrench 99% of the time. It wasn't difficult.

Bioshock was casual difficulty.

>I beat bioshock 1 on hard

Give the normie his medal guys, he deserves a (((you))).

>>horror survival
Your starting weapon and circle strafing kills every enemy in bioshock 1.

There's health items and checkpoints everywhere.

It's not a survival horror game by any stretch.

This to be honest family.

Personally I liked 1 more than 2, but it was close.
Infinite was a fucking nose-dive into dumbfuck plebville.

>Didn't read the rest of the post.

If you are going to shitpost, don't do it with a hair trigger.

You heard it here first, folks. Actually enjoying a game isn't as important as the atmosphere.

>horror survival
Bioshock isn't horror survival at all.

>bioshock 1
>survival horror

You're starting weapon can kill every enemy in the game if you upgrade it and you are good enough with it. Don;'t use terms you don't understand, kid.

what a giant fucking faggot

>I literally didn't play the game on Survivor with no Vita chambers

Fag casuals keep shitting this thread up with their uneducated memeies. Keep your shit taste to yourself. Bioshock 1 did everything the best.

Question.

Does the Bioshock 2 remaster feature revived multiplayer as well? That shit was fun as hell on release until all the matches became dominated by lagless Amerifats onebanging everyone with Electroshock + Elephant Gun.

he's right, this place has shit taste.

Bioshock 1 and 2 are both great games though.

You can still beat every enemy with shock and wrench on survivor difficulty.

>Does the Bioshock 2 remaster feature revived multiplayer as well?

No. Not enough people played it to justify even bothering.

>he didn't play on survivor

>Weapons had a purpose
Bullshit, you just found a random weapon and then had fun with it. There's no rhyme or reason for there to even be guns in Rapture other than fontaine's men ransacking the place with them. Even then why the variety and random placements?

>Plasmids were a must
They were optional. You call them a mere toy in 2 when that's basically what they are as a whole, just a different way to play the game. Don't bullshit me and tell me Bees are fucking mandatory. Bad example since its fucking awesome but as a narrative fuck off

>Tougher enemies were hard
You mean Houdinis and big daddy's? The former varied and could be taken down fairly easily and the latter is optional which is a great part of the game and a chance to press your luck.

To be fair, survivor difficulty didn't exist when the games first came out.

Never am I ever fucking lucky, man.

>tfw enjoyed infinite the most

I know, I know.

Bios hock 2 multiplayer was amazing.

I was bummed when they figured out the auto aim abuse methods and ruined it.

I would have bought a standalone game of just the multiplayer

I downloaded it recently. It feels like I'm just walking from one cutscene to the next.

There are hardly any cutscenes and there are stretches of hours between each of them, what are you talking about, are you thinking about Infinite?

But was the story better? Let's not be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian here. Was the story honestly better?

It had stunning art direction.

Absolutely gorgeous game.

100% accurate. The game pidgeonhold you from one cutscene to the next with QTE inbetween.

Everyone looked like they were wearing a wet mask in the first one

>But why do people consider Bioshock 2 to be the worst?
Infinite is the worst. Whoever claims otherwise is a retard.

I really liked the more personal angle the story took. The good ending was really nice.

The game had more emotion than 1.

better? dunno. it's subjective. 1 is probably better overall.

Honestly no, its the one thing that I really hate about B2. After all of Bioshock 1 it was way too hard to accept that there was things big 3rd player in Rapture that wasn't even hinted at in the first game. As a standalone narrative it was ok, and I did enjoy some of the characters, but it was just too jarring overall.

It hits you pretty hard with a father complex.

That feeling frightens a lot of Cred Forums.

Infinite did that harder for me to be honest.

Bioshock 1 had the best overall story
Bioshock 2 had the best gameplay and ending
Bioshock infinite was meh

Sofia lamb was horribly hamfisted into raptures lore despite absolutely no mention in 1 considering how big a role she played.

The underwater segments, while pretty to look at, were pretty boring. It was cool being in rapture again, but it lacked more colorful characters like Sander and fontaine. It also didnt have as memorable locations like 1 did, and the little sister quests were awful. Just awful.

Besides that, 2 is literally an improvement in just about every way from gameplay to soundtrack and even its story.

A side note; i was bummed that Mark Meltzer was reduced to audio logs after following Something in the Sea religiously, but his story was goddamn tearjerking and i was happy to get some closure.

It doesn't frighten me so much as depresses me. Being a father sounds like such a wonderful experience despite the gigantic workload it gives you.

eh, it happens a bit too late in the game

I found it sadder since 2 was able to portray it silently at least Deltas part.

Infinite didn't have little girls riding on your shoulders and giggling while you burn people.

wait he actually said that?

>always so happy to see you
>pick them up and carry them around
>thanking you after you save them

They were so adorable.

The little girls didn't really do it for me.

One well-crafted disney-type daughter character did though.

People are dumb. Other than story, Bioshock 2 was the superior game overall.

I never once felt like Booker and Elizabeth's relationship was in anyway father/daughter. But I'm also still annoyed at how badly they failed to understand how a multiple universe theory based on decisions worked to really give a shit about the parental bond in the game.

>you play as a white man "protecting" white women from danger

Uh, racist and sexist much?

It would be so much better if they hadn't forced her into the established lore from previous game and had said she had come after the fall, or if she was just a nobody that rose to become the leader. Having this religious, collectivist cunt having debates with Andrew Ryan about how people should start believing in God and be more community focused was stupid and jarring.

>why do we have kill so many people just to prove them wrong *begins sobbing*

>here Booker, catch. While smiling and acting nonchalant.

Hmm... At leas Eleanor wasn't bipolar when it came to her morality.

>The whimsy of the setting is lost because you've already been here
>Fear and tension are lost because you are a Big Daddy, the literal embodiment of those elements from the first game. Da fuck do you have to be afraid of

Best part of the game desu.

>I never once felt like Booker and Elizabeth's relationship was in anyway father/daughter.
I did. Unfortunately faggots on Cred Forums would immediately post spoilers for the game and I accidentally read that she's Booker's daughter so I played the game knowing that.

>badly they failed to understand how a multiple universe theory based on decisions worked
Not surprised, given that the entire plot of the game was rewritten in like few months before the release. The original was far different.

Bioshock 2 actually gave a fuck about sticking the landing. That means something.

>Fear and tension

Except for the opening and few other select parts of the game there is no 'fear and tension'

>The original was far different.
How so? All the original stuff we saw for Infinite looked fucking great. I'd like to know what we could have got.

>Except for the opening and few other select parts of the game there is no 'fear and tension'

Which is a whole lot more than the second game had because you're a fucking Big Daddy

>>Fear and tension are lost because you are a Big Daddy, the literal embodiment of those elements from the first game. Da fuck do you have to be afraid of

Socialism

OooOOo

You'd have to look at the trailers and early gameplays. Not only were the graphics and physics better but the entire plot seemed different.

For starters - Comstock wasn't a prophet. He was just a politician, and an influtential one. And you'd arrive in the middle of the actual revolution, not the beginning of it.

Being able to drill dash and duel wield powers and weapons is far superior to any of the half-baked 'horror' elements from the original.

Haha, right? Socialism is the best. Everyone knows that.

Make sure you vote for the woman that Bernie Sanders, the quintessential socialist, supports, Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

>Cred Forums's brain has been rotted by anime for years
>suddenly they like the game in the series that has loli waifus the most

Fear and Tension stopped being a thing in Bioshock 1 the moment you realized the vita chambers were a thing.

Despite being a big daddy, I never really felt like one. Other big daddies still felt like they were just as tough, and the splicer were more numerous to compensate for your perceived new toughness.

Eleanor's mind is made up and she's totally set on it, but she can really go either way before she gets there. She doesn't personally care about anything but being like Daddy.

user, he says a lot of dumb shit. he's pretty shit at vidya too desu

Will do

I just watched the review and no, he didn't say that. user is just trying to rile you up.

>Other big daddies still felt like they were just as tough

Try playing past the first few hours, you eventually get so many tonics and upgraded powers and weapons you become a walking tank that can kill anything with ease, even on the highest difficulty.

>posting babby as a reaction image incorrectly

no I get that, he's also a droning, boring motherfucker when not sped up. I'm just surprised that someone who shit so hard on Bioshock 2 thinks Infinite is in anyway an objectively better game.

She's a feminist psychologist, she doesn't need reason, fucking shit up is sole reason for her entire existence.

>Try playing past the first few hours, you eventually get so many tonics and upgraded powers and weapons you become a walking tank that can kill anything with ease, even on the highest difficulty.
You can say the same thing about Bioshock 1, what is your point?

I can only describe my hate for Infinite with buzzwords, having bought it for the full $60. Especially with how cheap I see it on sale. Maybe I wouldn't have hated it if I got it for $5 (actually probably wouldn't have forced myself to beat it). I paid the full $60 for 1 & 2 and didn't regret a penny. Have beaten them both several times.

the first games' story rode on that one big reveal which happens 60% into the game. after that the game just peters on for several more hours ending in a bad boss fight and cheap 30second cg ending. The pacing was much more fucked.

2 felt more constructed. while it didnt grab you from the get go like the first one did it had substantially better pacing that kept ramping up from the halfway point onward leading to a satisfying conclusion that took all the choices you made up to that point into account which imo made for a better overall experience tho maybe not the most memorable one.

So your point about other big daddies being just as tough as you is wrong, they have to start sending two big sisters at the end just so you can have a challenge.

>le playing as a big dady is bad

I'm convinced that only retards that played 1's abysmal big daddy section say this. Or retarded story faggots, playing as a big daddy is fun as fuck.

You play as a big daddy but the gameplay is identical to playing as a normal human. Total letdown.

Cool.

WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY

Wrong, wrong, wrong, so fucking wrong.

>normal humans have giant drills attached to their arms

where are you from

>you play as a big daddy

Okay, that's pretty cool.

>AND you're the super special chosen one big daddy from way back when, you are NUMBA 1

And you lost me. I'm not playing this chosen one shit.

>play as big daddy
>no reason to even play the game because nothing threatens you and theres no suspense to the game at all

So if I turned off Vita chambers for BS2, then it turns into Survival Horror?

This. First game I pre-ordered since Halo 2 and like you, expected a good time since I enjoyed the first 2 and was impressed by the E3 trailers.

I got mad/disappointed about a quarter in at how shallow everything felt, but had to finish it since I spent 60 on this shit.

Since then I have never bothered watching trailers or build up any excitement for games until they're out.

You do face off against other Subject Deltas though.

Plenty of things still threaten you. You see dead Big Daddies in BS1 and splicers fighting them.

If anything someone making it through rapture being a big daddy makes a lot more sense than a (more or less) regular dude

Also you're really not that special, other than being from outside rapture and a prototype so no skin grafting/mind control

>AND you're the super special chosen one big daddy from way back when, you are NUMBA 1

What? The only special thing about Delta is he was part of a set of factory model Big Daddies that got fucking scrapped because they weren't efficient at their jobs.

1. It's unoriginal
2. You're overpowered
3. Meaningless fetch quests without any emotional resonance, discovery, or reasonable payoff

It's essentially a meaningless Hollywood sequel in game form, a casual sandbox for retards that mitigates the value from the first

>tougher enemies were hard
barely, and the game throws so much money at you that it's hard to not be rolling in 9/9 potions and full ammo for all of your weapons. Even the newer difficulty they released is a joke after the first few minutes.
>plasmids were a must
Debatable. Electro is used for hacking but quickly becomes outdated with nitrogen. TK is effective but you can easily do without it. Security can be used to cheese BDs but again, you have so many weapons and such an abundance of resources that you'll be struggling to use up what is given to you without immediately getting more.

>Bioshock 1 had a plot
what plot
dude allah akbar'd a plane due to hypnosis trigger or some shit
enters city and gets stuck
shit happens in there, two "big" twists happen
he either leaves as Jesus with a harem of lolis or a leader of the sploicers and take over the world or some shit
every other plot is background detail that is fluff
interesting fluff that did not have much importance

Why do people like the twist in bioshock 1 so much when it's not even that much different to ss2.

Oh oh, a funny wunny. Now do Bioshock 2!

Because people actually played Bioshock 1.

It was easy as fuck.

More sandbox than game with clever design.

Because the quality of the game took a nosedive after it.

>best gameplay
>daughterfu

favorite bs game desu

I liked it.

It was much better than that abortion, Infinite.

One word.

drill

Shit game desu

If you consider the fact that it doesn't rely solely on one big mind control twist, yes it's multitudes better. The first one is just loved so much because the twist is well hidden. It's still a pretty 2 dimensional story compared to 2.

>numba 1
aka the shittiest big daddy in existence. Did you play the game?

If I were to revise my point based on the original topic, both games are scaled to what the player character is. At no point is the player character really any more or less powerful in relation to the threats thrown against them in either game.

My only complaint was that you couldn't backtrack to previous areas like in the first game. I enjoyed revisiting the old areas to find stuff I missed or just dick around being totally overpowered for a given spot of the game. Other than that, 2 is my favorite of the series, but 1 isn't far behind. Infinite doesn't count.

Dazaras
Aug 12, 2012
8
Despite a completely new storyline, new enemies and weapons, and updated graphics, this game felt a lot like more of the same. There really weren't many parts of this game that made me feel like I was playing a different game than Bioshock

you are a resurrected big daddy
your "daughter" is in the clutches of her mother
shit happens
both of you get out and your daughter is either evil or good

B1 and 2 don't have great plots only extra fluff and a setting, debating which is best is like comparing apples and pears
that was the whole point of the prev post

2 is a better game than infinite.

Shit tier tacked on multiplayer.

The whole game just screams cashgrab. Shit game overall.

The vita-chambers are fucking crazy overpowered and get handwaved away or ignored completely. That bugs me a bit.

How?

Why did they get rid of a lot of the gameplay like the sky rails and hook stuff? The trailers seemed to imply you would be doing a lot of that.

What a cancerous, try hard post.

Not much has changed from the first game, almost feels more like a quick expansion pack then a real sequel. All the wonder of the first game has been lost however since this is your second time through. All the fear is missing aswell since your character is basically an armoured tank, making you feel impervious to most of the dangers.

When you kill a big daddy why don't they immediately respawn at vita chamber? Why didn't fontaine?

Infinite is the game that made me start to pirate pretty much every game before I buy it.

While I don't think anyone expected Bioshock 2 to surpass it's first title, we all expected it to not suck. Not entirely the case sadly. Pros: Combat flow has improved greatly, the simple addition of using both hands freely was a great start, and the evolution of staged plasmids was a good choice. Additionally the Insect Swarm and Cyclone Trap plasmids are actually viable tools this go around, in particular the swarm. Cons: Most everything else. The story is toned down, with much least of a impact or moral debate to be had over who was right and wrong this time. Additionally not many surprises to really be had, barring one near the end that does show you another side of Rapture that is nice to see. Overall however the biggest part of Bioshock is lost in the second one, the atmosphere. It looks like Rapture, it sounds like Rapture, but it never FEELS like Rapture. It doesn't help that they tried to make the Big Sister look 'sexy' or the Little Sisters look 'cutier.' Oh, and the multiplayer is an utter mess. Unbalanced as possible, horrible netcode, terrible peer hosting system without host migration; about as bad as it could of been. Swarm + Grenade Launcher = easy free kills. Unless you're the host, then it's Electro Bolt + Elephant Gun = easier free kills.

who watches over sleeping angels? i dooooo, iiii doooooooo

>I'm telling the other girls that I have the best daddy!

I wish vita-chambers had some sort of very finite resource that you needed to use them, so there was some sort of punishment to death.

You asked me why it was shit and I told you.

>but it never FEELS like Rapture

which is why people disable them or just quickload upon death

Incredibly short game at 8 hours. Multiplayer is bugged on the PC version, i dont know how the devs didnt notice it, it was obvious right away. It seems they rushed this one out the door bugged and unfinished. The game is worth maybe $20 for its good single player. But its length is too short and with the broken multi, dont expect your monies worth.

Don't the regeneration chamber things in SS2 drain money?

I really mean lore-wise.

Are we ignoring how they are only set up to acknowledge Andrew Ryan's genetic code or is this a complaint about how Eleanor allows Subject Delta to use them?

Either way, in the former, it led to a nice moment where Ryan purposely deactivated his vita chamber and the latter acknowledging it by having Eleanor's heart slowly stop to prevent Delta from coming back. It's certainly not ignored.

Doesn't match the hype. I hate not finishing games, but this one really just feels like a waste of time. I played the first one and found it not to be ground-breaking, but it had an original storyline and world, with some interesting gameplay. ----Now, this one, while it doesn't ruin anything from the first one, it doesn't do a single thing to improve it, and it seems just that much less original since it comes after the Bioshock 1 and does so little to improve the world, the gameplay, or the story. I daresay the story is a little more simple and less inspired, hence the reviewers who trash this title. Still, it's a little inaccurate to give this an atrocious score. It still has its assortment of interesting little baddies and nostalgic tapes. You can still catch yourself laughing while cringing at the snatches of conversation you hear between the other inmates of your little slice of hell. You still scan the walls for bits of nostalgic flavor - you just find yourself less surprised and less effected because it all feels like you've been here before. And you have...both your character and you... in Bioshock 1. And there the story was just a little more gripping.

>Combat flow has improved greatly, the simple addition of using both hands freely was a great start, and the evolution of staged plasmids was a good choice. Additionally the Insect Swarm and Cyclone Trap plasmids are actually viable tools this go around, in particular the swarm.
And thats all that fucking matters, the game was more fun to play in every way shape and form.

Yeah, about 10 bucks, which was honestly nothing even when I played on Hard as my first playthrough. Though negligible as it might be, at least it stops you from completely abusing the system like in System Shock 1's free infinite revivals.

>i dont know how the devs didnt notice it, it was obvious right away.
IIRC it was outsourced to a 3rd party and was in the era of every game getting a tacked on multi-player.

This game was a big disappointment. Even though Irrational Games will never best the first Bioshock game, this game did not even come close to it. The gameplay was basically the same as the first, besides the adding of a few new weapons, and a few new enemies. The graphics were the same as the first game, if not worse. Also, i wondered why if you were in a big daddy suit, wouldn't that make you stronger? Apparently not because you had the same amount of health as you did in the first game when you were in regular human form.

That fedora fuck Yahtzee and his stupid fans.

>muh Bioshock is high art, bioshoc is insult

Read a fucking book, you tard. B1 was not that amazing.

>developers make a nuanced, deep storyline about a father-daughter relationship with the ability to teach her lessons based upon your ACTIONS not just what your words, all tied together with a basic revenge plot
>they get nothing but scorn and derision and the game is labelled a 'cash grab' by utter retards
>Levine rehashes this exact same storyline, strips it of any emotional resonance and ability to influence her and crams it all into a nonsensical time travel plot
>he gets nothing but praise, the game is labelled a 'masterpiece' by gullible retards

Hilarious.

If they're just for Ryan, why the fuck are they all over the goddamn place?

Graphics were much better.

normies do not like it because they couldn't understand transformation character goes through both games
simply put in bio1 we kept losing humanity
and in bio2 we were trying to gain some

>Infinite didn't have little girls riding on your shoulders and giggling while you burn people.

the best is they had lines for literally everything you did and every plasmid you use

>electrocute somebody
lets dance with em daddy!

>shoot bees
ouchies in your mouth and eyes!

>use COV machine
when can we buy the circus???

>The gameplay was basically the same as the first

Stopped reading there!

also combat was improved drastically compared to bio1

>the game was more fun to play

>being more "fun" to play doesn't mean better.

You have too many tools at your disposal in 2 and most are outrageously unbalanced.

It's the most dumbest cashgrab way to do a sequel.

OH YOU LIKED BIOSHOCK?

WELL WHAT IF INSTEAD YOU PLAY AS THE BIG DADDY THIS TIME?

IN BIOSHOCKER

>WELL WHAT IF INSTEAD YOU PLAY AS THE BIG DADDY THIS TIME?

You play as a big daddy in the original as well, moron.

I can't blame you for forgetting though, it was the worst part of the entire series.

...

Dunno. Lots of stuff was just cut out. I guess Levine was more interested in telling you his story, regardless of whether or not the game was fun.

>It's the most dumbest
oh the ironing.

just giving you more tools doesn't actually make the sequel better. If anything it fucking breaks general game flow.

>You have too many tools at your disposal
woah, it is a bad thing now

>You have too many tools at your disposal in 2 and most are outrageously unbalanced.
I mean, I understand about your complaint in regards to balance, but too many tools?
Since when is having more options a bad thing?

>You play as a big daddy in the original as well, moron.

It is not even close to the same and you damn well know it.

oh look, a stupid Yatzee drone.

>more variety is bad

They're there because they were in System Shock 2. The game actually feels more difficult with them enabled because you have to resource manage more.

single player games are broken by default
name a single game you can't cheese
SP games are not about balance and never were they are about creative ways of handling situations

It doesn't make it better. Especially after you completely shit on the artistic tone and world of the first

>Elaborate traps capable of sending splicers down half a corridor of bees, pushes, launchers, zappers and burners while flying
though the air
>Ramming a drill down fuckers throats
>You're a big daddy
>Dad feels
>More about little sisters
>BIG SISTERS
>A more drawn in plot than 1 even if the twist can never be toppled
>More enemy variety
>The film camera
>Different tonics
>Telekinesis picking up LIVE enemies
>Finding Elenor
>The ending

I just loved the ride.

Not an argument.

That doesn't answer my question. How, specifically does it make it worse?

I worked on BioShock 2 so it always makes me happy to see at least some people appreciated it.

Our narrative lead/creative director Jordan Thomas was pretty far up his own ass and it showed though. Original story was much different before he rewrote it, and some early builds had underwater combat.

Once something is explained, even if just a bit, then you can do whatever fits gameplay best.

>are not about balance
Simply playing devils advocate here, but thats just a silly thing to say. I don't think Bioshock 2 is guilty of this until like super late game but even SP games need to be balanced so figuring out that way to handle a situation feels satisfying.

if you are going to make claims of anything give at least one example
specially i'm interested in artistic tone that somehow changed

I believe you.

don't expect anything substantial user, he is just throwing out buzzwords to sound intelligent.

2 has a better story, better gameplay, better graphics, and some more interesting characters, but it got shit all over because it took place in Rapture. Apparently that alone means nothing else the game did matters and it was just a cash-in rip-off. Literally the only thing the first game did better was that it had the "would you kindly" twist.

I mean balance in MP sense of things, sure they have balance but not as strict

>Fontaine
>Interesting
How? His motivations were simply about wanting to control Rapture, while Ryan's were at least based in some wacky philosophy. Lamb was an ineffectual villain because she never really did anything to you personally, but she was more interesting than Fontaine too.

Does any other game let your air tackle someone and shoot with an elephant gun straight after?

>she never really did anything to you personally

Stealing your bonded little sister from you and forcing you to commit suicide is not doing something personal to you?

bulletstorm

>That crazy man who leaves pre-recorded messages asking you to put him out of his misery because he doesn't want to live insane, while the current insane one begs for you to let him live
>The alpha series big daddies who went insane and are being used as Sofia Lamb's mad dogs
>The big sisters
>'Objective: STAY ALIVE' parts

There's plenty of unsettling shit. Besides, you killed plenty of Big Daddies in the first game, what makes you think a prototype version will be in a much better position than them?

technically you are not a person as big daddy more like a drone machine programmed to do one thing

>far up his own ass
Did he have to glitch his way out?

Motherfucking rocket spears. If you didn't enjoy watching a splicer corpse jet around the entire area because you shot rocket spears up its ass you have to be dead inside.

Because people didn't play it and needed something to use as scapegoat when they had to defend the only one they played which was infinite

I believe Gerstman put it best.

anyone have a fucking fix to the remastered disconnecting the screen and then having to restart to fix it?

i know its because for some reason broadcasting software causes this.

christ, what a pleb

BioShock is not too bad but stupid shit like taking pictures of splicers in the first completely destroyed it for me. God damn if you are making an FPS please realize I care nothing about anything besides gameplay. Seriously, why have me go out of my way to do dumb shit? More games need to follow the half life formula like halo did. I ended up dropping the game because I couldn't find the last splicer anywhere and I looked forever.

So, why did Fontaine even bother with the whole Atlas charade if he could force Jack to do whatever he wants with a code phrase? Not like people will hear what's happening over the one-way radio.

Nah he had to make a speech to the whole team apologizing and crying. It was pretty great.

Speaking of glitches, in the original BioShock try killing yourself with incinerate the moment you step into the trigger for the cutscene where you finally meet Ryan face to face. Make sure to turn art captions on so you can see a fun little easter egg - far as I know no one has found that yet :)

>this entire image
>this entire post

Yahtzee's right. Only those who are thick-headed like 2. They lack the appreciation of artistic integrity and clever design. They just want shooty shooty bang bang with loose reasoning and lack of substance or skill.

because le twist

faggot hates on somewhat clever people with tiny bit of deduction logic
not to mention game itself is CoD clone that nobody expected, where the fuck my early build version
it's pretty though, sure

But OP, the second one is the best one.

I could say the same for those that prefer 2 over 1.

>game is fun
>it is worse now
you must be a joy

...

disable broadcasting software

Gameplay.
Story.
Atmosphere.

>All the alpha series have way too much freedom
>A bunch just fucking walk off into the ocean never to be seen again
>Let's program them so they have a biological need to protect the little sisters
>Oh shit, if their sisters get killed they go crazy and go on a homicidal rampage
>All remaining alpha series are detained or killed
>One of the little sisters had a particular fondness for her Daddy
>She was able to recover his body and restore it in a Vita chamber
>He didn't go crazy because she's actually still alive
>Has enough free will to defy the government that created him because they hadn't figured out their mind control shit yet, but not enough free will to leave the little sister to die

You're not super special or the chosen one, you're just lucky enough to get a particularly capable daughter.

>Play Bioshock Infinite after having not played the first two in a few years
>Its entertaining
>The combat is pretty fun

>Play Bioshock Infinite again after playing through the first four Shock games beforehand very recently
>Its garbage
>The combat is annoying
>The story makes no god damn sense

mk gonna disable everything nvidia geforce and see if that helps. Can't think of anything else that could trigger it; Didn't work last time but worth a try,

>why do they specifically need that one ship the vox populi taken from them when there are police hoverships here and there and near end game booker even says they could use the hovership they were using to go to paris if they chose so
>it is basic paradoxes that could be found in any fiction ft. mutiple worlds
what a fucking moron

>If you point out the weak points of the plot on a game that tries to stand solely on it's plot you're no fun

>Implying I'd give a shit about the holes if we hadn't got one of the worst gameplay experiences in the past 10 years

ignorance is bliss

>game is fun
That's precisely the point. You have too many tools and the design of the overall game doesn't accomodate this. Bioshock 2 is more or less an uncreative sandbox. Things are given to you weightlessly with no real rhyme or reason. Retcon, retcon, retcon, retcon, here's more guns, retcon, retcon, retcon, here's more plasmids (don't ask where they came from or how you got them), retcon, retcon, retcon, plot convenience, plot convenience, plot convenience, qte, qte, qte, qte, multiplayer, multiplayer, multiplayer, multiplayer

Bioshock 2 is pop entertainment for thick-headed individuals that don't care for skill, craft, or design.

>this hole post

I just see you spouting off the same shit over and over again, without doing any fucking proper explanation.

Elaborate on all your points.

And thank you for proving my point, Billy.

Did... Did you even play the game? You seem to have no idea of how the camera even worked in that game.

>but I had fun
>it's betterer
I don't have to elaborate any further when that's all you can muster.

gameplay is fine

Don't pull that horseshit on me. Besides, I'm not that user, you goddamn half-wit. You just posted without ever explaining why that is the case.

You're very good at using lots of words to say nothing. You'd probably be a good politician.

I'm pretty sure big daddies can't come back if their little sister has been killed or cured or whatever, it's the driving motivation to protect them. And I'm pretty sure neither Fontaine nor Big Daddies were actually on Ryan's side, Ryan having created the damn thing, so maybe he purposely made it so it wouldn't work on them?

Fuck if I know.

I already did explain. Next time read.

>the twist is well hidden

The treason was not exactly a big twist, and the mind control was quite dumb overall

I'll never understand anyone that says BS1 had a stronger plot.

Fontaine and Ryan were great characters, but why does everyone just conveniently forget how shit the game becomes after the twist? Do they not remember the character having to turn into a manlet Big Daddy with a wrench for no reason so they can fight Fontaine who literally turns into the mythological god Atlas. Then afterwards you get one of two shitty cutscenes which just ignore the fact Jack turned into a Big Daddy.

BS1 has a good start and Irrational went full retard as usual because they don't know how to wrap up a story.

>you didnt even explain!
>no, YOU didnt even explain!
neither of you will "win" this "argument". just give it up

Bomberman.

>I never once felt like Booker and Elizabeth's relationship was in anyway father/daughter.

This. She was waifu bait from the start

I think they just like to forget about that part, I know I did.

>supposed to be a big daddy
>still have exposed hands

That's replacing the camera when I make my ripoff. You get graded on how amused your lamp-eyed foster imp is by what you do to a man.

Ah sorry, I meant physically. Her motivations were interesting but at the end she couldn't do anything herself except send a group of Big Sisters to try to stop you.

uh yeah big daddies are literally welded into their fucking suits, that shit dont come off, i don't know what the fuck they were doing there

No you didn't.
>You have too many tools and the design of the overall game doesn't accomodate this.
How so?
>Things are given to you weightlessly with no real rhyme or reason.
How so?
>Retcon
Such as?
>Plot Convenience
Such as?
>here's more plasmids (don't ask where they came from or how you got them)
I'm fairly certain you can find some plasmids lying around in B1 too, but it's been a while since I played.
>QTE
If you're referring to the hacking, I personally thought that shit got pretty fucking stale in the first game, but in that regard, to each their own.

Didn't she want to try to rebuild Rapture or something with the little sisters? Or wasn't it takeover some country?

>Stealing your bonded little sister from you and forcing you to commit suicide

Personnally, the intro of the game nailed it for me because I was fucking fired up to go to the bitch to save the girl

>tfw you see the gun trembling as you slowly pull the trigger

Also the only reason you like become a big daddy is because you can't open a door.

Her own mom made her dad commit suicide right in front of her. She might not be as okay a villain as Ryan but she's easily more hateable.

>Eleanor watches you suicide in horror

If someone likes BioShock infinite it's the sure sign of the person being 1 of 2 things.

1. Someone that just likes to shoot stuff
2. Normie who thinks he's on another plane of thinking than everyone else/pretentious prick.

Sofia Lamb herself. Her devotion to ideals is nothing short of insanity, and justifies any means she uses. She's not like Ryan or Fontaine, who just advocate their ambitions, she actually 100% believes in what she says.

Shh, you will trigger the bs1fags that honestly believe bs1 story is the best thing ever written in a video game. There is no point in discussing it.

It's been a while since I played, but I think she wanted to grow an army of little sisters and big sisters and then go and replace humanity as it currently stood. I guess that's pretty cray.

She wanted to rewrite humanities genetic code with ADAM and write altruism directly into peoples genes.

>So like, 2K just gave us the development of the next Bioshock. What should we do?
>Take those horrifying Big Daddy monsters and make them a sympathetic player character.
Not bad. That opening really hurts.

I played Bioshock Infinite on XBOX, and I must say, holy crap.

Now I look more at the storylines of games then the fighting and whatnot, but I must say, bioshock has blown me away. I made it seem like a haven at first full of religion, but it slowly turned corrupt. Like an apple which seems ripe on the outside, but rotten on the inside. The interracial marriage in which the people were getting shamed for got me hooked on how different it was. The crow victim getting torn apart? A little gory but showed how cults were involved. It should how many people can be manipulated by one voice.

Now I've finished Bioshock Infinite.... And I must say...Wow. Elizabeth being his daughter? Him being comstock and booker? I must say, the game amazed me. It should elements of desperation, confusion, love, trust, betraying, and rebirth. The religion made the game much more better in which from it told me they actually made a real world religion in a game. It should realization on how you can turn into a mad man by simple the wrong move. So I must say, bravo. The game is amazing. I wish to play it again, and I must say, it is worth all the praise it got.

If you shall, take my advice. Buy the game. It is the most amazing, most awe filled game I've ever played.

I mean, it was good up until "you" kill Ryan, then it gets progressively worse, however BS2 was less of an overall story, and more of a bunch of setpieces threaded together via an overarching plot IIRC. Not that it's bad, but the general story wasn't as good as the firsts (up until it goes full retard).

Big Daddies were always sympathetic though. That's why so many players liked them.

>The big sisters
>they get more and more agressive as they grow up
>probably because of cycle of being injured in attacks and almost instant healing
>being constantly on ADAM sure doesn't help
>they start being troublesome
>Gill decides to use as enforcers

So, I'm a bit lost. I thought that those drug addicts used that Control Big Daddy plasmid to make you hallucinate Lamb to make you shoot yourself so they could make off with her. Can someone explain the opening to me with some detail?

The characters are only okay though.

At one point Fontaine says something like "we could have ruled this entire city together! But you had to go with Tenebaum"

Like what the hell was that? Fontaine turns on the player instantly after his reveal and tries to kill him, likewise the only smart thing in BioShock story wise was Andrew Ryan and the concept of Rapture. It took the stupidest parts of Atlus Shrugged and turned them into faux political sounding things to come across as smart.

too much pasta makes you fat

Yup, she was nearly insane and very hateable in a non stupid way.

She is cold. there is no hint eleanor will handle the adam super overdose just cause she was a little sister, and yet she pushed on, no love for her dauther, just her insane quest.

That makes her great villain. Not all villains need to be muh higher causes. She is an asshole, and your on a quest to put her down and save your daugther

The only real problem of the whole bs2 story is that she had to be retconned into it. Otherwise the story is nearly perfect, much better than the latter half of bs1.

She only planned as far as making her Utopian, but always talked in terms of saving the world by doing it. I think she expected Eleanor to take over expanding out of Rapture once she'd become a mindless god.

What's wrong with just shooting stuff, user?

>It doesn't help that they tried to make the Big Sister look 'sexy' or the Little Sisters look 'cutier.'
best part desu

It's a great game desu

steamcommunity.com/app/8870/discussions/0/864971044979342579/

youtube.com/watch?v=W88qeppfx7M

It actually happened, what else is there to understand?

They were Lamb's cultists who ambushed you so Lamb could kill you and take Eleanor back.

I call games released past around mid-90s "modern" because the majority of them are based on the horrible style-over-substance mentality.

Agreed

...

Is this the worst opinion ever?

We will be reborn

>you are NUMBA 1
name "subject Delta" implies 4th prototype, not first.

I think that was a more intermediare goal. When she realised adam power, i thought she wanted to merge all humanity minds in one super being.

DELET THIS

>Muh story
>Wood ya koindly bullshit "twist" at the end
Bioshock 2 has indisputably better gameplay, so it's the better game. Anyone who says the first is better and states the reason is the story needs to stop playing video games and read some books.

Yeah, there were a whole series of alpha models. Hence the name "alpha series".

>Shooting stuff
>In a game with 2 weapon limits and damage sponge enemies.

Naw, they dont get even that right. Only people who like infinite are the people who match your description number 2

If you harvested those cute little sisters in BS2 you deserve death.

Can we talk about how the last area - jail or prison I think - looked so completely different from the rest of the game in terms of lighting, texture quality and model detail? Was it just me or did they do that area first and panic when they'd blown half their budget already?

2 problems with Bioshock 2

1. Length
Its pretty short.

2. Girth
Its very linear.

Do NOT sexualize Elanor (do)

You protected them all, right?

>Bioshock 2 has indisputably better gameplay
Nope, unbalanced overpowered trite filled with meaningless fetch quests. Also, it's more action than horror

>complaining about linearity in the shock series

The first game lost all sense of horror once you got the shotgun

>big sister
>bullet sponge
they die in seconds to anti armor machine gun ammo and if you hacked only one security element in the area, like a camera or any turret, the fight is easy as fuck even if you have nothing against armor

the thing about big sister fights is that they're almost completely optional, except for the first two encounters and one at the end. for the optional ones that only happen once you save/harvest the last little sister you can basically always choose the location, set up traps and prepare your ammo stock

the first fight during the beginning is probably really a bullet sponge because you lack all the weapons but she doesn't count because can't kill you either, she leaves you at 1 hp and pisses off

It's not that hard to believe that Ryan no longer cares about Lamb, once she was locked up along with her cultists. From his point of view matter is solved.
Also at end of Bioshock 1, you find tape where dr. Suchong, mentions easy source of test subjects Ryan promised him. While most likely he meant detained Fountaine's crooks, it fits idea of dissident prisoners as well.

>Gameplay was basically the same as the first

So you didn't play it?

Its a lot more linear than any of the other games, that's the issue. They took whatever exploration or area traversal there was in the other games and got rid of it.

Someone redpill me, why does her pinky being in a different place fuck shit up when she can pull other things from other dimensions in and Comstock himself is Dewitt from another dimension to begin with?

*tips*

I concur fellow gentleman gamer! It is shallow and pedantic.

*stands in Bioshock 2 player's way*

You shall have to debate me and my comrade first before you can play your subpar game again!

Or upgraded plasmids.

Yeah, totally.

Evil ending best ending

...

Yes.

The combat tweak were good, but the level design, A.I., lack of "rpg elements" were not.

No... no they didn't, its the exact same. Bioshock 2's levels are actually larger.

>Horror

Bioshock 1 isnt horror either. You are literally underwater jesus. Atmosphere dont define the genre.

Devil may cry 1 was made in a resident evil style, with fixed camera, puzzles, and creepy monsters, but it isnt horror, why? Cause you are the top of the food chain. The creepy puppets are nothing to dante.

The biggest flaw to me was not letting us become a full time Big Daddy.

I wanted an open world Rapture where I could just farm Adam all day.

>The wrench*

Fixed it for you

>horror

Holy shit, he's serious, isn't he?

It really isn't, you go to one area and that's it. You're stuck to that one area until you're done, in Bioshock 1 you could go back anywhere you wanted to.

System Shock 1 and 2 you could traverse both of the stations at your leisure as you unlocked up. You could go from one end to the other. Bioshock 2, you just showed up, did your shit, moved on. No ability to go back, no nothin'.

>it's unoriginal
see: bioshock 1
>you're overpowered
see: bioshock 1
>meaningless fetchquests
see: bioshock 1

Bioshock 1 have shitty level design against ss2.

Bs2 is slighty worse than 1, but the damage was already made.

Plus it seens that anyone who knows how to do level design on irrational died, as infinite was a corridor shooter

I think people mix up suspense/thrill with horror.

I mean granted BioShock had some spooky moments but it's all pretty much haunted house cliche shit to surprise you, not meant to literally scare you or horrify you.

You deserve coal in your stocking.

>That neutral-good ending
>Willingly letting yourself die just to teach her a lesson
>Proving you wanted to save her because you cared about her instead of just doing it to keep yourself alive
>She starts crying once she realizes you don't want her repeating all the actions you did to save her, showing you went against your own morals for her sake
>How many innocent lives you sacrificed to get her out of there
>You killed the last monster threatening her well-being, yourself

Fuck man, the more I think about it the worse it gets

>implying it's not
Which one's better?

This melodic, derelict, somber, intelligent, and ponderous opening?
youtube.com/watch?v=7wLt3IvNFww

Or this LE WACKY BIG DRILLZ BOOM BOOM BANG RETCON SELF-INSERT CASHGRAB MULTIPLAYER GIVE US MONEYZ XDDD?

youtube.com/watch?v=sWpSjD1QIlw

how did delta consume food?
though his plasmid hand hole?

you mean travelling back to previous levels? Yeah, but only reason to use it, is because EVE and Health upgrades are tied to speciffic Gardener machines.

Why does Cred Forums always like the black sheep of the family?

>morrowind
>New Vegas
>Bioshock 2

>If I throw "Le" and "XD" in there enough times, I don't actually have to make an argument
>I can only use terminology pre-approved by the Cred Forums hivemind, can't come up with any original thought myself

His helmet comes off

Well, bs1 had thrill, that is alright. Specially during the twist. Not horror though.

And if we are talking abiut thrill, when lamb starts talking about where is sinclair is a very tense moment in 2 too, when your playing for the first time.

I think you should stop using words that you don't understand, user. You'll only hurt yourself.

she built a new religion based around Adam and some scientific experiment that is about turning her daughter into some sort of super powered messiah that will force world peace

where else in the world can she do anything like this and actually be successful?

Wrong trailer.

this one. This right here is all I needed to know about Bioshock 2 before the game came out.

I knew it was going to be a le wacky XD overpowered self-insert fanservice shit and I was right.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lngIFXRi4

>future games were
>Skyrim(ESO)
>Fallout4
>Infinite
shit looks better in hindsight

Because majority of people usually have simple tastes.

Cred Forums will always be the "20%"

The previous games were kinda Metroidvania styled in that you unlock new abilities you can unlock other shit on previous decks. Bioshock 2's just levels, that's my issue. There's nothing tying you back to the previous ones.

And by previous games I am including the System Shocks.

Pretty much. It definitely had the creepy atmosphere and some sweet moments but I definitely wouldn't call it horror. Especially not with the almost godlike way you can fuck up splicers.

Oh god, he was indeed serious.

Cause they usually are the good ones, not dumbed down for a casual console public, which get bad reviews as it doesnt please the art critiques wannabes who are in charge of the media.

I like to think Cred Forums realizes that the reason popular things are typically popular is because they were specially engineered to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Anything that challenges the safe status quo, good or bad, can mean a potential drop in sales. The big, easy, overfunded tripe gets gobbled up by the masses like soylent green while the games that tried new things and succeeded can fall by the wayside just as often as the ones that fail.

Morrowind, New Vegas, and Bioshock 2 are all less simple and pretty than their more popular variants, but do a lot that someone who really loves video games can appreciate.

>save all little sisters
>kill all Sofia's sergeants
>Eleanor tells you, that you taught her true meaning of justice
>that is to protect innocent, and show no mercy for the wicked
>she pulls Sofia under water in front of you
>"I loved my mother, and my hands were shaking"
>"but you were here for me, to hold them still"

>the black sheep of the family

That's infinite

Everyone loves Infinite though.

if you include System Shock, then yes, I agree.

Infinite is hailed as one of the best games of all time by normies though.

the original trailer you posted had just as much if not more action than that one

are you just baiting at this point or are you actually this retarded

>I like to think Cred Forums realizes that the reason popular things are typically popular is because they were specially engineered to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Finally someone agrees that sales indicate shit.

I always knew Nintendo was shit.

Wow, I've never gotten that one, holy shit. First time around I spared Grace and that piece of shit in the park but killed Alex out of pity. Then I found out there's an achievement for sparing all three of them and "being good" even though killing that genetic abomination is clearly the best option for all involved.

A good game should not be fun, you should be able to enjoy it on its other qualities, instead of just a buzzword.

He is baiting. Stop responding

Have you considered that he's just trying to fuck with everyone in the thread and fish for (You)s?

...

>A good game should not be fun

>A good game should not be fun

You weren't a fucking Big Daddy in the original trailer. You were a fish out of water and it was a subversive take on the role of the player character. It was artfully done. Bioshock 2 is just a fucking insult to the entire first game by saying LOOK HERE'S MORE GUNS, HERE'S MORE FUCKING PLASMIDS, GO NUTS NEVERMIND ACCOMODATING THESE NEW WEAPONS WITH ACTUALLY NEWER MORE AGGRESSIVE ENEMIES AND A.I., GO COLLECT AND FETCH SHIT IN LINEAR CORRIDORS FOR FUCKING HOURS, GO SELF-INSERT AS THE "CHOSEN ONE" WITH A HORDE OF LITTLE GIRLS AT YOUR DISPOSAL.

BIOSHOCK 2 IS A 4/10

BIOSHOCK 1 IS A 7/10

Ok, enough stupid discussion and baiting.

Lets talk about yours trully, augustus sinclai, and why he is a bro?

>A good game should not be fun

Best guy in the whole series.

>A good game should not be fun

>Why does everyone hate Bioshock 2 and thinks it's inferior to first
>given detailed reasons as to why

>NO NO STOP BAITING, YOU'RE A BAITOR NAH NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU, BIOSHOCK 2 IS DURR BEST GAME EVAR

stay pleb

Super Mario Is the Star Wars example of game design.

no u

Seriously, stop responding to him.

Power fantasy is not fun for the rest of us.

Bioshock 2 is Far cry underwater.

Bioshock 1 is spiritual successor to System Shock.

>You were a fish out of water and it was a subversive take on the role of the player character
>a fish out of water
>in fucking Rapture

Pretty bad metaphor if you want my advice, user. But hey, it's as shitty as your opinion so

>Bioshock 1 is spiritual successor to System Shock

>Kept thinking he was going to betray me the whole time since there was no way someone in Rapture could be this nice
>Ended up being a complete fucking bro till the very end

RIP in piece, my nigga

>BioShock 1 is spiritual successor to System Shock

Except only in the "Shock" name

It's just a completely watered down SS2 with some stuff taken out of Half Life 2's book. That's literally all BioShock is.

Bioshock 2 is shit. Now I like it as a guilty pleasure, and others can as well, I loved the story, the atmosphere, and the combat where all great. But I do have one problem with the game, and western RPG's in general :

Two words, Difficulty curve. IMO as you progress in a RPG the difficulty curve should increase at a slightly faster rate then your power. As you gain more power and more skills the enemies you are fighting against should progress at a slightly faster rate then you. (for a visual example see tinypic.com/r/2rm8lqf/6 )

The logic behind this is simple, more skills means more ways to defeat your enemies, more combinations you can use, and more factoring in of player skill. When you first start you should be more powerful then the enemies you fight, you are just learning the ins and outs of the game, and your selection of skills is tiny. When you gain more skills it is up to you to choose how to use those skills in a way that best defeats your enemies. This = player skill.

I've found this backwards difficulty curve where you start out having a hard time and by the end your breezing through the game in most western RPG's (ex. Fallout 3, mass effect 2 to a small extent, Dragon age, and now Bioshock 2). I mean c'mon who is having a problem at the latter stages of this game? Once you get Bees + Ice + tele + shock, and lets not forget Hypno 3, no enemies stand a chance. This combined with the fact that ammo medkits and money are everywhere leaves you with a game experience that actually gets easier as the game progresses. All culminating which a laughable easy final boss fight.

Bioshock 1 is literally all power fantasy you dumb cuck.

It suits Delta and Lamb that completed areas become unavailable. You're tearing through the place with purpose and she doesn't care enough about preserving Rapture as a city to not collapse segments of it trying to wash you down a trench.

The thing Jrpg's get right ( and there's not many) is the understanding of difficult curve. Take FFX for example, the game got progressively harder as your leveled (assuming you didn't over level), the boss fights tested your skill, and decision making abilities ( Remember the fight with Seymour on the mountain?), all leading up to a challenging final area with trash mobs who could whipe your party, and a difficult final boss.

To me a game that gets easier as you progress is counter-intuitive. Why get to the ending when the hard part is already behind you? What's the point of getting these cool new skills if the fights stay easy? Agree, disagree? Why?

youtu.be/Qrhp_-Upe04

>actually advocating for level scaling

>"Don't let me hurt Eleanor!"

>not fun for the rest of us
Who's "us"? All I see here is (You)

Bioshock 1 is artfully made and a subversive look at the role of the player character.

Bioshock 2 is merely by-the-numbers Hollywood-style sequel that assumes "more" equals better with no sense of artistic preservation. It's only liked by those that want to smash things with a drill imbeciles

You're giving Bioshock too much credit as an RPG.

It's an FPS with some upgrades.

@352489517

No (You) for that one. Try harder next time.

You're only illustrating my point by posting this.

In this trailer, you see the character pummeled, devastated, you see loss, you see him overcoming overwhelming odds

In the 2 trailer posted prior, you see nothing but BIG DADDY BOOM BOOM GET OUT OF MY WAY.

There is no looming threat. It's for thick-headed individuals that derive glee and satisfaction from activating the same scripted drill animation endlessly.

Bioshock 1 is pretty much a casualized remake of System Shock 2.

This is one of those retards you hear so much about. Never thought I'd meet one in the flesh.

And Bioshock 2 is even more casualized.

At the end of the day, they're both shit.

Because they don't like popular. Also, because those are usually the games before shitty casualization.

Its a poor mans system shock, also shadow warrior did everything but setting better than it.

To be fair, SMB was included with fucking everything.

This is the major problem: it feels more like BioShock 1.5 rather than a true sequel. There really isn’t anything genuinely new about the game except for the new storyline and multiplayer (which is a fail in my book).

The issue I have when judging BioShock 2 is that a sequel has to bring something new or better. You can’t just keep shelling out the same game with a new number and expect our $60 AND a perfect rating.

I want a daughter.

youtube.com/watch?v=_rUZb6_f_zM

>A good game should not be fun

Children, have you ever met the boogeyman before?
No, of course you haven't, for you're much too good, I'm sure.
Don't you be afraid of him if he should visit you.
He's a great big coward so I'll tell you what to do.

Go kill another man and take his.

>Can somebody please explain why people don't like this game?
Well first, it's a worse System Shock.

And 2, it's unoriginal.

So was Call of Duty. Not an excuse.

She would never love me.

No it wasn't. Not even close to what Mario was.

please hear me out on my theory Cred Forums, i actually wanted to make a 20 minute maximum autism youtube lecture about this

Bioshock 2 is the perfect bridge towards all the problems Cred Forums sees in gaming.
Up first it's obvious a bigger team of writers are on this game, as the plot gets really political.
Bioshock 1 can be seen as distopian, but Bioshock 2 gets way more conflicting, to the point i didnt really bother figuring out who was the "real bad guy".
second of all (and the most interresting for Cred Forums):

The first tape you reach is a female leading the construction of some bathhouse. this character is never to be seen again.
also, when doing a the "rapture train tour", when they come to the artists, the artists is painting an art deco piece that undoubtly resembles a Tamara De Lempica Painting.

Tamara De Lempica was (in her time) a "castrating beauty", as she had incredible painting talent, and was born into richness, she just wasnt in need of any man. she wasnt a feminist, but is concidered as an intellectual celebrity amongst art-lovers.

The point is Bioshock 2 has an agenda. even though some people thought Infinite was the downfall of the series, Bioshock 2 was slowly shifting into this, but disguised with excellent gameplay. all above points where no problem at all, if many games wherent ruined by these exact points.

>I honestly REALLY liked this game.
Then you have REALLY shit taste.

>but disguised with excellent gameplay
spamming insect swarm isn't "good gameplay".

This certainly is an autist rant, and you are probably right about that reference, but reading a bit too far into it. People don't like Bioshock 2 because it shoves in the whole plotline about Andrew Ryan fighting with budding Commies. I personally don't mind it, and I genuinely like his rivalry with Dr. Lamb even if she is a little too perfect a foil to Ryan considering she was never once mentioned in the first game (obviously shoehorned in for the sake of 2). It's still far, far ahead of Infinite as far as gameplay and general writing.

Bioshock 2 was fun op

>hurr just play on the patch-added artificial difficulty mode and ignore an integral game mechanic!! bazinga
At no point is Bioshock scary

youtube.com/watch?v=dE7_BKvHikU

...

Hush hush here comes the boogie man

They half asked the whole "play as a big daddy" feature

Only once in the game do you actually protect a little sister

Felt like I was playing the guy from the first game but just with a drill/rivet gun

The MP had potential but the stiff mechanics and bugs made it feel like a slog to play

>you kill their daddy
>they grief his death
>you pick them up
>they instantly forget about him
>their cheerful as if nothing happened
>you realise it's nothing but conditioning
>same will happen if you die, and other Big Daddy will find them
>you stop for a moment, stunned how fucked up it is
>how fucked up they are
>and how it's "normal" for you and them

>It hits you pretty hard with a father complex.
Too much shit gives me this feeling, Anime especially.

You're thinking about Infinite

And that's why you save them.

Like what, for instance? Nothing's given me the fatherly feels quite like BS2, although in fairness I still haven't played Nier or Asura's Wrath. I hear those are heavy on dads.

>Like what, for instance? Nothing's given me the fatherly feels quite like BS2, although in fairness I still haven't played Nier or Asura's Wrath. I hear those are heavy on dads.
Anime is the worst for it to be honest, there's a joke on Cred Forums that it is the Japanese government trying to convince their males to reproduce.
There is tons of shows with cute unsexualized lolis that you want to protect.

Recently there was Amaama to Inazuma, a show about a little girl and her dad learning to cook since the mom died.
Theres also Usagi drop, the ending of that eranged most fans of the series because of what happened.
Barakamon is another cute one because they use real children for the voice acting.

I don't ever want kids but some of this shit makes you weirdly lonely, guess it is just nature.

Because most people who play the Bioshock games have no fucking idea what System Shock is.

It's what makes me laugh that much harder when people praise Bioshock and it's 'best twist/story in videogame history.

>I can understand disliking or criticizing the original Bioshock
why?
Infinite is understandable since it didnt even have a thing to do with bioshock.
I think the best order is play 2 then 1, as if 1 was a prequal to 2.

Hmm, that sounds interesting. I don't keep track of anime that much but it sounds like shit that would stab me right in the cockles of my heart.

>I don't ever want kids but some of this shit makes you weirdly lonely, guess it is just nature.

I do. That's why it hurts so much worse when I play.

>love
>show's some blacks hand

>play the remastered bioshock 1 for achievements
>generic human enemies
>lead artist didn't want sick mutated monsters and considered them boring compared to a dude with a pipe or a dued with a shotgun
>Raptures downfall makes no sense, was it happening for years? Did it happen yesterday? Is it going for week slowly getting worse or just everyone went mad in an instant? is there any real people left?
>Rapture infrastructure makes no sense
>Who invites janitors and mechanics into rapture, they don't expect painters and musician to fix shit, right?
It was fun the first time, but the more you think about it, the worse it becomes.

...

I was actually half-expecting them to shoehorn Elizabeth nonsense into the remasters, but i guess they were too lazy for that.

>Weapons had no purpose
You mean like everything that wasn't the wrench or the shotgun?
>Plasmids were a must
Except they all boiled down to 'stun an enemy and then wail on them with the wrench' which lightning bolt does fine
>Tougher enemies were hard
I sure hope you're joking.

and what's with these dead cats all over Rapture? There's no word of explanation anywhere. You'd think they would be better at staying alive than people, sneaking, hiding and feeding of bodies all over the place.
And why there are only cats, and no other animals?

feels rehash tier
new enemies are bullet sponges
Escorting little sisters is FUCKING BORING
Sofia Lamb is hamfisted into the story

So I only managed to play like 30 minutes of Bioshock 2 because the low FOV made me sick

Does the remaster improve things?

you can change it in the ini

reddit is beter its the best

The original or the new one?

I remember one Bioshock had this weird thing where I had to bind W to change the FOV

Bioshock 1 was loved for its epic sodeep story and the colourful cast of lunatics in a somewhat unique setting. Bioshock 2 wasn't as pretentious, the characters weren't as colourful, and it revisited an old setting.

This is why normies prefer the first game. You'll notice gameplay has nothing to do with it. In short, normies are fucking scum.

at the time it was innocuous, but in this age...

>rivet gun and machine gun had the same role
wat.
The Rivet Gun was like a single shot replacement for the pistol and the machine gun was a machine gun.

I had a fuckload more trouble in combat in Bioshock 2 than I ever had in Bioshock 1.

>bind W to change the FOV
Then what were you using to move forward?

...

story was shit. and most casual bioshock fans only care about that.

What was wrong with the story? It was fine. You're just a dude who wants to get his daughter back from a bunch of drug addicted religious collectivists.

ok, i worded that wrong. it was precieved shit, since you could see the twist coming a mile away this time

so what the hell's up with the PC version being broken 7 ways to sunday? It seemed like tons of pieces of the game got outsourced to other companies like the multiplayer was. Did the PC port get outsourced as well? Did they only get like 3 weeks to do it or something? Was it really even a port of the console version or were there just no talented people on the team like Bioshock 1's animation team?

>twist

That's retarded if anyone thinks like that

exactly

more than enough. a shitton of people I know play games casually, and all had the same complaint about bioshock 2

...

2 didnt have a twist

>being this autistic

People like the game because the scenario is more personal, conflicting, emotional and involves a real relation to other characters, and also has a very good gameplay.

It's not that hard to get

What was the twist exactly? I honestly can't remember.

All I remember about Bioshock 2 was being sassed by a fat black woman at one point, and that one bro guy that rolls with you for most of the game and then gets turned into a big daddy. Oh yeah and you flood a level at one point which was bretty cool :DD.

is Bioshock 1 one of the absolute greatest video games ever made?

Twist was Sinclair was a cool guy the whole time and doesn't intentionally turn on you.

thats a subversion, not a twist

>we get to play in the we wuz kangz poverty district

Absolutely degenerate.

what? wasn't the whole "shes your daughter" thing supposed to be a secret?

i'm about to subvert you in a second you cheeky little cunt

She's was your little sister at the very beginning of the game, she's constantly calling you "father" throughout the game. so, no.

You might be thinking about Infinite where Titties McSexualTension is your daughter.

fuuck, it's been a while. time to play the sweet new collection i guess...

retreading the same location.

Half the greatness of Bioshock 1 was seeing and experiencing the culture of Rapture for the first time.

You remove that initial sense of discovery and it loses a lot of it's charm.

>mfw people say infinite was a good game in any capacity

Certainly has good porn.

...

infinite has value if only because the combat sandbox is fun.

Don't act like it wasn't fun to ride the rails around some of those endgame arenas.

eh, it's ok.

>It's an escort mission that doesn't require you to babysit the person you're escorting.

But that's what escorting a person is in real life. What people didn't like about escort missions in video games is the npc always has bad AI and will put itself in danger for no reason.

1 was good, but you can see the serious decline in quality from System Shock, and only slides further down with 2 (and ending, hopefully, with Infinite). 2 really improved on 1's gameplay, but that's it. The game itself was linear as fuck, without even the minor open world elements from 1. It's stupidly frustrating to permanently block off previous areas.

The writing suffered too, they tried way too hard to make Lamb Adam's opposite, but she just ends up completely one-dimensional. There's nothing to her except "THE PEOPLE. LED BY ME." Compare her to Ryan, who we see go from Capitalist Pig Dog, to Hitler's Cousin, to dude who realized he was kinda a screw up the entire time, played out by Atlas/Fontaine. The only comparable development in 2 is Sinclair, whose entire dynamic development occurs wholly in a few moments as "oh fuck I'm an actual bad guy now, wait! I can totally repent for my horribleness you TOTALLY SAW EARLIER IN THE GAME WITH PAUPER'S DROP AND NOW PERSEPHONE by helping you now!!!! Wowzers!!!!" which if you couldn't tell is not anywhere near as well written.

But the most important chick in the game's universe is pretty much a non-entity as far as gameplay goes. Sure, you press a button and she can open up tears but that's really no different from having the shit from the tears there to begin with.

Ashley in RE 4 is the most important chick in the game's world and protecting her and making sure she doesn't get carried off or have an errant pitchfork shoved through her ballistics is an actual gameplay concern. Escaping from Columbia with Elizabeth doesn't mean anything because you haven't actually been protecting this chick. She's just been tagging along to your murder sprees tossing you shit from time to time.

People tend to dislike shameless cash grabs.

the combat in infinite was not fun. every enemy was a bullet sponge, every gun felt as shitty as the tommy gun from the first game, the vigors were literally just watered down plasmids and were all basically the same as each other, and the lack of being able to carry medkits and two weapon limit made extended combat sequences stressful and annoying because you needed to run from cover to cover attempting to scrounge for ammo and health or a shitty gun you never upgraded.

sinclair was not a villain though. he was genuinely a good guy and on your side, but the fact that he was a shady businessman and kind of a coward combined with the adam/fontaine betrayal arc in the first game made him seem like a villain that would betray you, but he never did.

I'm not saying he was a villain.

Oblivion is the Black Sheep, not Morrowind. And while some people on Cred Forums praise Oblivion, most recognize it as the worst of the modern elder scrolls games overall.

I recognize Oblivion as simultaneously both the worst modern Elder Scrolls game overall, and my favorite one of the bunch.

Oh jesus

2 had the best gameplay. Cred Forums doesn't like gameplay.

I hear you on that one.

I hate a lot about that game and yet every time I remember the good parts I just can't help and want to replay it.

Yeah, I kinda love almost every bit about that game even though I know its garbage. Its a game that legitimately makes me feel comfortable, potato faces and all.

Kill yourself

It was the first Elder Scrolls game I played and not even Nostalgia will save it from being a poorly put together game. Morrowind still ended up my favorite.
Mods are just an absolute must in Oblivion. I'm replaying it now for the first time in about 7 years after burning out on replaying Morrowind and even Skyrim. It's fun properly modded but it sure takes a while to get there.
Only things it really did well were some of the quests and the Shivering Isles. God damn did they fuck up with the leveled world, removing that is an absolute must.

This

Funny part is, its not actually my first Elder Scrolls game. I played Morrowind long before I played Oblivion but I always end up defaulting back to Oblivion quicker than I do Morrowind. Its the macaroni and cheese of games.

I can't remember a single area in Bioshock 2

It was just the quintessential lazy cash-in sequel. They looked at bioshock, thought "what do people remember from that" and came up with playing as a big daddy. Except they didn't want to put any actual effort into the concept so made you run and jump just as fast as jack, reskinned all the base weapons but made no changes to how they function and gave you a stupid fish bowl overlay. It didn't have a single original idea, everything EVERYTHING was scraps from the bioshock 1 concept art.

Also to my recollection it was one of the pioneers of on disc dlc.

>but gameplay

The entire bioshock series has substandard gameplay, who gives a shit if 2 is slightly less substandard

Only plebs and normies now fail to recognize it as the best in the series, this has been the consensus for a while now.

really? For me most memorable maps were residential areas. I loved them not only because of all shortcuts and openess, but also because the impression they give, that people actually lived in Rapture.
Bioshock 1 and most Bioshock 2 levels were theme parks: hospital level, opera level, lab level. Even Apollo Square level was just villas on one end and slums at another, with nothing but naked streets in between.

>so made you run and jump just as fast as jack, reskinned all the base weapons but made no changes to how they function and gave you a stupid fish bowl overlay

This is blatantly wrong.

...

>gave you a stupid fish bowl overlay.
You can turn that off though. Unlike in the first game.

Bioshock 2 was easier by miles. I remember finishing the game and getting an achievement for playing the game without vita-chambers to realize that I had never died in the whole game.

They were originally intended to be a quick patch up place for average citizens. Couldnt revive them, but would fix broken limbs or bullet wounds

>people think the daddy daughter shit was worthy of praise

Chasing down/avenging your daughter/wife/niece/[insert female relation here] was the most cookie cutter plot you could come with, even then. It was tacked on to everything.

It was a hell of a lot better than Infinite, its blatant Rapture nostalgia circlejerk and lore fuckups.

Bioshock was a more defining experience. Bioshock 2 is a better game mechanically and a lot of fun after having played through the first game.

Also, in Minerva's Den you play as a nigger

Its the fact that your daughter actually learns lessons from the different actions you take in regards to how you treat the little sisters and enemy leaders is what makes it interesting.

I love it. I almost enjoyed it as much as the first game.

>Don't act like it wasn't fun to ride the rails around some of those endgame arenas
Yeah riding those rails in a complete circle sure was fun.

>People thinking Ken Levine is the soul of the Shock franchise

he wasn't around when System Shock 1 and it's fucking great

No.

>Gathering sections are insanely dumb and consume like 1/4 of the time you spend in any given area.

>Half the weapons in 2 are OP

>Half the plasmids in 2 are OP

>Hacking was dumbed down with the removal of a puzzle and further dumbed down with the hack tool

>Crafting removed entirely

>More straightforward level design

>Underwater parts are stupid

>Less interesting environments

>Less interesting characters

>Levels are self-contained and only connected by train, game feels like a tour of concepts and less of a coherent world

>Big daddy encounters are ho-hum because of how OP everything is and how often you are forced to fight them

>Story is much less good, takes like 7 hours for motivations to even take form, then it goes downhill really fast.

>Final encounter is somehow even worse than Fontaine

>Dumbed down research camera, picture in 1 vs. film in 2

>Cartoonish nonsense and wackiness that feels like it should be in Bethesda Fallout

>Stops and tells you when you need to use a first aid kit so as to make sure you never feel like you died "unfairly"

People always post this garbage about how 2 is better in every way, but its just not true. The main reason people like 2 so much on Cred Forums is because it aligns with Cred Forums's political leanings better and it has more options so more options must equal better gameplay in the eyes of Cred Forums. In reality, 2 does build on 1 in some ways, but most of those are just by adding more stuff, most of which isn't actually very important in relation to the things they took away and how they changed the gameplay. At its core, its still a good game, but mainly just because of the areas where they didn't mess with the original formula. Most things they changed were for the worse, most things they added were just more of the same, which is a good thing, but not enough to make it a better game.

"dumbing down" the retarded hacking in the original is actually a good thing, since affter the first few times it got boring, annoying and it didn't fit in with the rest of the game. Also I really fail to see how upgrading to recording a film rather than taking one picture is "dumbing down"

>The main reason people like 2 so much on Cred Forums is because it aligns with Cred Forums's political leanings better

>Dumbed down research camera, picture in 1 vs. film in 2

Absolutely untrue, it is more complex and realized. It is the exact opposite of dumbed down.

Bioshock 1 was more cartoonish and wacky than bioshock 2, just look at fort frolic.

Hacking actually works better in Bioshock 2 since it doesn't pause the game to do it, allowing it to keep better pacing.

The weapons and plasmids in 2 all handle much better. The weapons are more interesting and better differentiated. Furthemore unlike in 1, there is not enough upgrade booths for all the weapons so you need to specialize a bit.

Plasmids were broken in Bioshock 1, and I don't mean that to say they were good. There was never any reason to upgrade plasmids. In 1 the best thing plasmids did was the secondary effects: Lighting on fire, stunning, electrocuting water etc. Increasing the level of the plasmid didn't help with those effects and just made them more expensive for a little more damage, making them actually LESS useful than the lower levels. By allowing new effects from existing plasmids in 2 when you upgrade them, it gives you an actual reason to do so.
The Gene Tonics were better in 2 as well, as they all fall into 1 category instead of being split into 3. This means that unlike in Bioshock 1 where you eventually end up good in everything even if you try to specialize, you can build and specialize your character more in Bioshock 2. Don't care about hacking? Don't take any hacking Gene Tonics, instead use those spaces on other things.

>expecting a twist were he betrays you
>The twist was he was a bro to the end.

how the fuck is having film instead of pictures dumbing down

>There are people in this thread that didn't abuse the bee power.

Why you hating on my man, Sigma?

youtube.com/watch?v=PYtXuBN1Hvc

he was the broest of bros