Casual games that are considered hardcore

>casual games that are considered hardcore

Souls

Spelunky

OP here, forgot to add
>pic unrelated

Any RPG or Turn-based game.

Csgo

but people consider it to be hardcore

dota 2

there were turn based games before Civ 5, believe it or not

And they're not hardcore.

>chess is casual

>t. someone who fell for the "SMB is hard" meme

>Nethack is casual

it wasn't a meme, it was indie marketing

What would you consider to be hardcore?

I hope there aren't people that find Super Mario Bros. hard.

What makes something difficult?
You make it too forgiving, and its casual garbage
You make it too un-forgiving, and its artificial difficulty.
How do you find a middle ground?

>playing videogames is hard

good level design

Make it forgiving with lots of ways for the player to make mistakes.

Take NES Mega Man games for example. They're considered relatively challenging while it takes like 6 hits to die.

This needs to be a sticky post on Cred Forums.

>PSA: Having a huge number of combinations of items, heroes, and unintuitive mechanics does not necessarily make a game hard. Once you understand them, you realize the game is actually shallow as fuck and none of it matters for shit.

Your favourite game

literally nobody understands the game, strategy-wise
pros are retards and make mistakes constantly and at all points of the game
your post means absolutely nothing, all you mentioned was the retarded barrier of entry

Don't be silly, nobody considers my favorite game to be hardcore

super mario bros. is hard though

I think Donkey Kong Country did it well. There were no surprises, you see everything coming at you and you're given the chance to react. It all comes down to your skills and reactions

That's my point. It relishes in being confusing as fuck, so you get all these wannabes who honest to god think they're hot shit without actually analyzing the game's mechanics and interactions, then they come into threads going "Dota 2 is objectively the best game because 120 items x 110 heroes x 6 item slots = good game" or something equally meaningless.

The devs and "pros" clearly have the same mindset, because the balance patches aren't based around how shit actually functions. It's a popularity contest. They don't take a look at a hero and say "okay, well if we nerf this guy, this guy's gonna be way stronger as a result because he was already good but hard counter by the flavor of the month". They say "he has a low pick/ban rate in competitive, let's throw more buffs and abilities his way and then throw in some god-item that suits him perfectly and makes him tankier". And don't even get me started on comeback gold. I'm still salty about that.

Is anyone seriously considering Deus Ex hard?

Yeah, the entire mindset of the game and players is off the walls.
Watching pros play makes me feel like I'm watching monkeys playing chess, except these are special monkeys because they can move the pieces faster.

Those games are very popular among nostalgic fedora tippers here, people post about them to fit in. It's a different kind of hardcore.

DKC games aren't hard though

DKC1 is piss-easy

DKC2 and 3 are much harder but still not that hard.

My fucking nigga