Why are visual novels not considered games by Cred Forums?
Why are visual novels not considered games by Cred Forums?
They are, but Cred Forums is retarded.
The ones you can lose or get bad ends are.
Eh, depends on if there is gameplay, but once there is gameplay it's not a VN. A VN is better described as interactive media. If forced into a already used category game is the closest. I say this as someone who plays a lot of VNs.
A flowchart is not a game.
Because you don't play them. They're virtual choose your adventure books.
Same reason video games are not considered visual novels.
Although I feel most VNs are a misnomer; one that is simply an electronic picture book with no interactivity from the reader besides pressing next which is the equivalent of flipping the page is a true VN.
Once you've got minigames puzzles and shit that shit is a videogame with more emphasis on the video part
No gameplay, it's literally like reading manga on your PC, but not in your browser or Irfanview. The real reason is because VNs attract the kind of people who boast their waifu pillows unironically, and probably talk with them aswell.
Visual novels lack pass/fail states. They're VNs not vidya
dumb yukinoposter
>Visual novels lack pass/fail states. They're VNs not vidya
What do you mean? You can get "bad ends" in a VN. Many in fact.
>Cred Forums suddenly memeing kare kano
Someone explain.
But they are video games? It's like saying RPGs aren't video games.
It's Kare Kino.
VNs at least have good writing...unlike uncharted
it's not a fail state if the credits roll after it
Electronic Choose your own adventure can be arguably considered videogames.
Like the Choice Of games that are on Steam, they're technically nothing but reading text and choosing options, absolutely no graphics, and yet they keep track of character stats that influence your success or failure in actions you wish to undertake and as a result have implied failure states.
I honestly love the Choice of Robots game for being what basically amounts to a visual novel where you get the choice to play as Dr. Wily but I'm yet to see a single person who has played it.
neck yourself
Depends on the VN, also if you don't speak japanese it depends on the translation. A lot of VNs have very poor translations.
Who cares
Post teeth girl
dumb anime poster
>Cred Forums
i've seen this image on at least 8 boards
What do you mean? You choose the wrong thing, you get "Game Over". No credits, the game ends.
What do you mean by fail state?
>mfw I watched Karekano for the first time just a few months back
And now this. I don't get it. It was an alright show I guess but why become a meme now?
Oh is that the joke. Kare Kano and Yukino Miyazawa. YuKINO. KareKino.
Cred Forums has surpassed itself in shitposting.
some of them don't even have choices at all, they're literally just short stories with some sort of drawn or animated accompaniment.
if the genre is literally gameplay optional, then I don't think they really qualify as games.
even walking simulators like gone homo still require you to walk around an environment manually
They are, it's largely newfags that think otherwise.
Didn't a mod specifically state that VNs are video games that can be discussed on Cred Forums?
Not him but it's pretty obvious that a "bad end" is an ending. A game over in any other game is punishing you by denying you an ending whereas a bad end in a VN is just more content.
There are plenty of VNs where it isn't a bad end, it's just a game over where the game just immediately ends. Many endings in fate/stay night are like this.
Every game can be abstracted to a (huge) flowchart though
So that gone home can't be called a game either.
Which is a perfectly fine reason.
>short stories
There are VNs that dwarf the entire LotR trilogy.
That sounds like a really shaky definition considering many things that are inequivocally games once you reach game over have a short scene that depicts a bad ending.
By that definition, you can't get a game over on Donkey Kong Country since you get to see a short scene of the main characters stuck in cages if they lose all their lives.
And let's not forget games where the "continue?" sequences are literally incoming bad ends that you have to avert by choosing to try again.
How immediately though? Because unless it cuts you off immediately after you make a choice, then it's not going to meet his (sorta dismissive) criteria. If you make a choice and get a line of narration/exposition, it's still more content.
Is it just me or am I'm seeing this same thread everyday
Most VNs could be reduced to a book with little to no loss in content. Even if it were a picture book.
If thats the case then it doesnt count as a video game. Would you count a book collection on DS a game? No, of course not. So why should a book with anime girl pictures over the text count as a game?
Picture seems familiar, but this thread in particular isn't being posted everyday.
Danganronpa is a game. Ame no Marginal isn't.
>Most VNs could be reduced to a book with little to no loss in content. Even if it were a picture book.
I mean you lose music/voice acting/animated scenes. It would also need to be a branching book.
So you'd be losing out on quite a lot of content.
And saying "it would not lose content if reduced to a picture book and a series of audio/video files" is silly.
They're higher tech versions of text adventures, so they're games
they have no gameplay. you read them.
It legit wouldn't lose content, because you don't interact with that stuff.
Pong has no audio, no text, no plot, and barely visuals, and yet it is more of a game than (non interactive to branching) visual novels.
Because Cred Forums is insular and whining like a bunch of little children. Just look at how they respond to anime being sold on Steam, despite Steam selling movies and other non-video game items.
it would if they were like some dark sci-fi game like snatcher or western dudebro crap. the reason neo-Cred Forums hates it is its dating sim.
A game is a game, you can't say one is more of a game than the other.
Do you consider Zork a video game?
Its content could be replicated with a fuck-huge branching book
First off, don't shoot the messenger.
Second I think you're conflating 2 things that aren't the same. One is a bad ending in a VN, and oftentimes you -have- to seek it out to 100% or to clear all the CGs. The other is the traditional fail state of a game, only expanded. Just because they're educational (say you die and it gives you a hint) doesn't mean they're not evolved iterations of traditional failstates.
And remember, reaching a fail state in a traditional vg is the result of your failure (as in, skill) to dominate the mechanics and be a step ahead of the difficulty curve, something you -always- strive to avoid. It isn't a often binary, mostly random, choice whose options you are -nearly always- going to explore (regardless of what you as the character choose) so as to not deny yourself content.
There is interactivity in Zork though. I choose my path for the most part. I constantly interact eith it.
Visual novels are not comparable to text-based adventures, that are, at their core, designed off of old rpg-stlye, like D&D. It is at it's core interactive.
Visual novels can be compared to a book, with a few branches. Visual novels more often than not have shallow choiced that end up with the same ending anyways. They should not count as games.
>Visual novels can be compared to a book, with a few branches.
That depends on the visual novel you read, some have many choices.
Because they are not
>I choose my path for the most part
You choose your path in any visual novel with at least one choice in it
Is there a specific number of choices a VN needs before it becomes a video game?
And despite all of this I do think VNs should be considered video games, as should digitized CYA books. What I don't think is a game over in a VN represents a failure from the player as opposed to any other game over that does. Unless we're talking VNs with additional gameplay modes but then those meet the game criteria anyway.
Cred Forums likes drawing arbitrary lines of what VN end and video game begins. Sengoku rance, drangan ronpa, purino party, and more are all vns, but they have gameplay elements.
Watch, someone is going to autistically reply to this saying they're not vns because they have gameplay.
LEAVE KAREKANO ALONE
Is it true she gets pregant in the manga?
How does that end?
I don't mind VNs being under a same, greater category along with video games, but they are not video games, just like comic books are not novels but they are both books.
>"why are novels not games?"
>"why are movies not music?"
>"why are books not cars?"
OP might be onto something. It's really fun asking fucking retarded questions!
And that doesnt make it interactive.
I could just have auto on, and randomly choose choices when they come up and win. That doesn't mean i played it, because reading and making a ton of choices isnt playing. A chicken could beat a fucking visual novel. A chicken wouldn't be able to win against me in pong.
The chicken test should be used to decide if a game counts as a game.
>A chicken wouldn't be able to win against me in pong.
Yes they can actually. You can train a chicken to play pong to get food. I suppose pong isn't a game.
>Why aren't books video games by Cred Forums?
Because you touch yourself at night.
Is this a video game?
No. Now fuck off.
We all touch ourselves though
>A chicken could beat a fucking visual novel.
It could also easily lose, getting a game over ending and not be able to progress. I don't see your point.
When you post a video of a chicken defeating a human in a game of Pong, I'll declare you the winner and kills myself.
Until then, you're a fucking retard.
Latest [s4s] meme.
It's a gamebook
If it had video it'd be a (video game)book
If it were on a computer, why wouldn't it be?
It has better gameplay and more choices than Fallout 4.
No, because it doesn't have any video. A CYOA is a game, but doesn't have the video aspect.
It is mostly reading, sometimes choice comes up, but still it is mostly reading.
If you read a book and in the half of the said book there was a choice which would basically tell you on what page to continue on, it would be still a book.
I'm not saying there are no enjoyable visual novels and I'm definitely not saying they should go off steam, but I personally do not consider them games, same with products from telltale, I see them as interactive movies.
...which is exactly why visual novels will never be video games.
Manga's ending is some "every couple gets married and have babies at 17!!! true love!!!" garbage. Fuck that.
I never said it could beat a human. I'm saying it could play and understand the game. It would probably beat an AI.
>Cred Forums spearheads fascinating new philosophy and logic
My brain hurts.
We're all connected
Please, senpai. My head can only learn so much.
What is the significance of red eyes in anime? I've seen very certain types of characters with red eyes and they tended towards animal-people.
Kare Kano is probably the best romcom anime out there, if you ignore the paper cutout episodes and the copout final arc. This is actually Anno's best work even if its an adaptation. I blame the jelly as fuck mangaka that Anno does the characterization of her own work better than her that they had to argue and ultimately lead to the anime's shitty end.
I was getting this super weird feeling of nostalgia everytime I saw any of these images without knowing why.
I just realized I watched this anime at least like 12 years ago and I didn't remember doing so until now.
I watched way too much shojo in my childhood and adolescence. No regrets.
...
Its a great show, especially the arc when Yukino realizes that she's only an achiever because of the shallow reason that she wants to be better than everyone else, not because she really likes what she's doing compared to her friends. Its my favorite shoujo anime and I have moxed feelings about it being the new flavor of the month meme
This has to be an edit
Second half of Kare Kano is shit. First half is one of the best representations of high school romance I've ever seen in any medium ever.
Haven't watched it in like 15 years...
Does it get much worse after Anno's departure? I'm thinking of re-watching it. The last shojo I re-watched was Utena like 2 years ago.
In that case your life can be abstracted to an (inmense) flowchart
because amazingly they would make the board worse
True, the last watchable arc is about Yukino's tomboy friend and the guy who used to like her who used to be a midget beta
Pretty much unwatchable. Cardboard cutouts everywhere
Because VN threads are just an excuse to have an /e/ dump. If you wanted actual VN discussion you would already be in /jp/.
>VNs at least have good writing
Yeah and all books have good writing too.
>dissing Tenchi Muyo
Fuck off nerd
hell yea anime tropes are the fucking pinnacle of literary achievement
This line of narration/exposition is the equivalent of seeing your character getting torn apart by an ennemy in any game or simply getting the "bad ending" in paper mario. It's still a game over.
Most VNs are completely retarded. Just like people who enjoy VNs.
Because format aside they're literally a CYOA book. I don't know who started the meme of them being video games, but it somehow caught on.
A certain ammount of gamepaly is required for something to be considered a videogame. If it doesnt have even a fail state you might aswel be checking an Excel file.
because you dont play them you read them
>mfw I watched Karekano for the first time just a few months back
Do yourself a favor and read the manga. Or you can read my spoiler.
Their high school friend, Hideaki Asaba, end up with the MC's daughter in the end.
Because they're not really about mastering mechanics.
>Watch Kare Kano anime
>Its a masterpiece
>Read Kare Kano manga
>Generic shoujo
Anno is truly the master
I consider them both a game and not a game on an individual bases.
If its mostly reading with the odd choice every hour or so its not a game. If its got mini games or full games that progress the plot its a game. If at the end of everything there is only one or two endings its not a game. If its got many choices and many outcomes its a game.
If I wanted to read a book I would. I'm here to play a game so you have to give me something to do. I want my choices to be meaningful and plenty. Outside of perhaps the intro if the game goes more than 20 minutes without a new choice that actually changes the story its not a game and I want nothing to do with it.
If you go far in a game and have never died wouldn't you start being curious about what it's like?
If you finish the whole game and still haven't died, wouldn't you just kill yourself until you get to game over if applicable, just to see what that looks like?
I know I do.
I remember this japanimation being popular when i was an intern, was it gud?
i dont mind kare kano becoming some sort of meme, more people need to watch this fucking masterpiece of a show.
i just dont get why people is talking about it, is my favorite show i mean, and is kinda weird seeing it like this.
Literally the main reason.
I'm fine with it.
So just like this then.
It's amazing what a talented director can do to middling material.
Well, the anime came before the Utena manga, so in your case it's just a shitty adaptation.
How could you possible even think of that?
the quality was too high for a webcomic
You know if a girl did that or something similar to me I would fall hopelessly in love. Reckless endangerment of my life is such a turn on.
Ikuhara also directed Sailor Moon R which is much better than the manga.
Huh, I think I have a new fetish now. Thanks, user!
Watched it a few years back.
Is it me or does this show have really high quality english dub?
Saint Seiya syndrome. Its only popular in latin america
I once had a girlfriend that would get road rage bad. She once drove right off the highway at 80mph and tore through some woods and an empty lot before slamming on the breaks in front of her house.
I have never been so hard in my life.
Because it's in the fucking name.
It's a novel with visuals
Is a novel a game? No it's not.
Go home.
it's not a game. there's no gameplay. you're basically watching a movie and using your remote to select scenes from the "pick a scene" DVD menu
Hey guys, this is Cred Forums - video games, right? What do you guys think about this videogame? All style no substance imhotbqh
>Saint Seiya
no other than my favorite shonen...damn im a living meme.
Because logic. They're just audio books with some anime portraits lusting after your dick. Arguing that VNs are video games is purely semantics faggotry.
a visual novel has mechanics and gameplay, unlike novels.
>i started watching kare kano because of the faggot spamming yukino all over Cred Forums
>it's actually good and not just a meme anime
why is this allowed?
>i find out a great show thanks to Cred Forums
>why is this allowed
Visual novels are more of a game than TellTale story games. And Cred Forums loves TellTale.
One of the few moments meme magic is ever truly a good thing.
YUME NO NAKA E
YUME NO NAKA E
ITTE MITAI TO OMOIMASEN KA
U-U-U-U
U-U-U-U
SAAAAAHHH~
PA PAYA PAYA PAAAYA PAAAAA
They can have mechanics and gameplay but don't have to. Not all visual novels are games specifically the kinetic ones. The ones that offer some player choice/interaction I would classify as games though. Of course there are the ones that offer a lot of player interaction like the Ace Attorney series which almost no one will argue aren't games.
>it's actually good and not just a meme anime
Well, until the last 1/3 the show.
>Yukino's father's flashback episode
>So dedicated to fight for Yukino's mother's love he had to engage her dad in actual fist fights
>"Because love...is something that spreads!"
The anime really fleshed out that entire arc it felt so satisfying
Just when Anno got put out of the project because the author got butthurt that the anime was better than the manga
Same thing happened to me with Ruroni Kenshin and Sailor Moon
I had the OP themes for both stuck in my head for the longest and I never knew why
What are some good VNs with good localization?
Steins Gate is on my list.
Because a visual novel is the equivalent to those book that go
>if you want to get cucked, turn to page dongle
>if you want to be fucked , turn to page bongle
thats not the same as fucking monopoly now is it
none, localization sucks.
either learn moon or get fan translates.
I don't see why not when Cred Forums claims every other game with no gameplay as "not games"
Planetarium and Saya no Uta are good starting points.
seriously, it's weird
Because you don't do anything besides reading and occasionally choosing a path. If there were more paths to choose and more dialogue options, things that would actually make the player more active, then I'd consider them games.
Reading in video games is not a rare or bad thing by any means, but when you've been doing it for two or three hours and nothing else happens, then I can't really see the game on that.
One person watched Kare Kano and keeps using reaction images from it. Its just like a couple months ago where we had a few weeks of CardCaptor Sakura reaction images because someone watched it and the thousands of others who watched it responded to him.
That someone was me.
>VN tries to add gameplay
>It's a complete drag, even on the easiest difficulty
I don't think I would have been able to finish the first Sunrider if "spam giant fucking laser" wasn't an option.
Also, why the fuck do I get punished for getting the melee unit? I mean, she has a really cheap skill that makes her immune to it, but it's still stupid.
The baseball mini game in Little Busters is pretty fun
Is Taimanin Asagi a game? Because I'm about to play it.
if you need it explained you don't understand enough about memetics and anthropology to be satisfied by an explanation
Play:
Swan Song
Kara no Shojo
Kara no Shojo: The Second Episode
The House in Fata Morgana
And then come back and tell me a single 'traditional' vidya that even fucking comes close to the quality of the narrative, graphics/artwork, music and feel inducingness of those VNs.
Assuming you haven't hung yourself, of course.
thanks
>Implying.
You weren't here when Cred Forums fell in love with a bunch of crippled chicks.
>All those autists that fell off the roof.
I've been meaning to get to little busters, But I wanna finish the second Sunrider game, which is even worse because now you can't even Laser everything
Katawa Shoujo was the worst fad that ever hit this board.
Different user but if we're talking adaptations that are better than source materials then this really deserves a mention.
>mfw i still fapped to it
not that great a story either user
Fate stay night says hello
I'm not sure if you're ready for those yet, comrade.
They're all fucking long, bleak as fuck, sad, depressing, brutal and leave a very melancholy/depression feeling with you afterwords.
You're acting like I havent read/seen shit like that before. VN is just largely unexplored territory for me. We'll see what happens,
I call them novels because they call themselves novels. Why drag them into the shitstorm that is the gaming community?
it's a fucking glorified powerpoint
calm down
...
Why is the DVD rip of KareKano so shitty?
Which VN is the most FUN?
>tfw reading kare kano and other shoujo manga in highschool
Maximum comfy