Now that the dust has settled, can we all agree on this?

But in the stone age

>when you finally execute the last of the autistic sonic vanguard after they inflicted heavy casualties on your combined royal platforming army being led by the 1st crash and mario battalions

Is Chris dead yet?

What kind of disjointed gibberish is this? That statement is a mess. Sonic is a mess. SA2 was good when it launched eons ago on the Dreamcast.

Fast running + video games = shit, especially at the pace Sonic attempts to emulate, and with it being so centric to the experience.

Move on.

>SA2 was good when it launched eons ago on the Dreamcast.
Nah, it was always shit.

Of course someone who likes Sonic Adventure would be unable to write a simple statement.

Thats why it got 90s and has had a strong fanbase for years. Sonic fans are sonics worst enemy. There was a time when sonic adventure 2 and heroes were absolutely loved and sonic was seen as cool. Then shadow and 06 happened and the msm have been kicking sonic around ever since even though the series fixed itself with unleashed and progressed smoothly for years.

Wait... Who says Sonic Adventure 2 was "too dramatic"? Are you dragging some other site's meme over here?

Well, he's not wrong.

>Shadow's backstory
>Maria's death
>Death ray capable of blowing up the moon
>Gerald's execution video
>Gerald's diary
>Eggman holding a literal gun to Amy's head
>Sonic almost getting blown up in a capsule
>Shadow's "death"

SA2 was the beginning of the sonic edge train.

STFU Gamecube nigger
SA2 was shit

Yeah because when I play a neat little sides rolling platform about goin fast, the first thing I think is
>wow, this game would be much better if it had cringe worthy, anime tier drama and dialogue

Eh, the tone was more serious than normal. But honestly, stuffing animals into machines which turn them into machine slaves is also pretty edgy when you really stop to think about it.

But regardless, I'm confused as to who OP is referring to? Because you don't see people express this criticism of the game. You never hear anyone on Cred Forums say SA2 is "too dramatic". Who is he arguing with? Reddit? Gamefaqs? Some Sonic forum?

>There was a time when sonic adventure 2 and heroes were absolutely loved and sonic was seen as cool.
Only by gamecube babies like you
Most of the OG Sonic Fans from the 16-bit era either moved on from the series after the disaster that was Sonic Adventure or they remained loyal and suffered through playing crappy game after crappy game in hope of the series returning to it's former glory

It is actually good advice.

>SA1 was the beginning of the sonic edge train.
fixed

I don't know why sega couldn't transition sonic into 3D. Nintendo did an alright job with Mario. Why did they add all the weird melodrama?
mixing sonic characters and humans was a huge fucking mistake

>But honestly, stuffing animals into machines which turn them into machine slaves is also pretty edgy when you really stop to think about it.

Not really considering that all you had to do was destroy the machine and the animal was a-okay.

It's not like the comics where people have either been turned into robots or where people have actually undergone surgery to become cyborgs.

...

Not him, but I grew up with the genesis games first. And at the time, I did feel a drop in quality. But it wasn't so much that I was willing to call them "bad" games at the time. I just focused on the good, endured the bad, and generally had a pleasant experience. It became bad to me in retrospect. As time went on, and my standards raised.

Sonic Adventure was a disaster? Both games received critical acclaim when they first came out for the Dreamcast.

I think you're mixing up facts with recent opinions.

sf94.reimuhakurei.net/?page=sa2bn
you're welcome for the greatest SA2 mod ever
send me bitcoin
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>I don't know why sega couldn't transition sonic into 3D
Maybe because it's impossible? Just like with Castlevania

Even if you ignore the terrible stories and character designs of the Adventure games the gameplay just isn't that good which is the biggest issue with the games...not the melodrama or the terrible animu stories(despite being bad)...it's the fucking gameplay

Yeah that seems to be the case with most people
At first I kinda liked the Adventure games but when I replayed them over time they didn't hold up at all and I realized just how boring Sonic's stages really were(the hub worlds in SA1 is the only thing I literally still enjoy "gameplay-wise" in the Adventure games...I'm not even kidding)

Same shit happened with Unleashed Daytime Stages later

They're still being hunted, held captive, stuffed into these capsules by the hundreds, all crammed, until they're read to be shipped off and turned into machines, doomed to be slaves until the hope that Sonic comes and destroys what essentially has become their exoskeleton.

Also, When sonic was in the capsule, that was not the first time he was flung into space, nor was it the last. In Sonic 2, Sonic escapes an explosion from Eggman's space station, with open space being his only escape. He would have burned up in the atmosphere, if not for tails catching him.

In Sonic Unleashed, Eggman actully successfully breaks earth apart, and just flings Sonic into space. He probably would have died, had he not been in his more resilient werehog form.

Eggman wields a gun in every game.

>muh reviews
kill yourself

I stopped after I played Sonic Heroes. SA2 was bad, but SH just did me in. I will always still love the Genesis games, though.

>bring up facts
>i should kill myself

ok

I loved it when I was a kid, but im not conceited enough now to try and claim it was good. Its fun to this day, but that doesn't make it good. Its clunky and not fantastic.

>critics paid to like things is evidence of quality
Are you an infant?

>it's the fucking gameplay
They never even bothered to properly adapt the gameplay of the originals, because they kept throwing gimmicks in everywhere. I think the only time they got it right were the 3D stages in Sonic Generations.

>If something I don't like gets positive reviews, it means the critics were paid off

Are you?

Listen buddy, if you overthink something enough, you can turn anything into an edgefest.

I mean, Mario basically commits genocide and nobody ever brings up how all those bricks used to be people, but I digress.

The problem with 3D sonic is that it got too serious for its own good.

It went from a blue hedgehog hopping on robots with a two-tailed fox and an echidna and became some weird edge-fest where he's fighting apocalyptic shit and dealing with themes that are way too fucking heavy for a lighthearted game like Sonic.

In SA1, station square gets destroyed, SA2 has the looming threat of a colony drop, S'06 has Sonic dying and being brought back to life from true love's kiss (*retch*), and Shadow had a story about an alien invasion that they acknowledge has caused a ton of civilian casualties.

It's so serious that it becomes ridiculous and absurd, especially when you remember that this is supposed to be a game about a blue hedgehog that runs at the speed of sound.

>Implying reviewers aren't paid to give literal garbage good scores
>Being this underaged

SA1 and 2 are no more serious than a fucking cartoon. Shadow and 06 I'll give you but Sega has been reeling back ever since.

It means you can't trust reviewers.
You should only judge it by its merits and your own experiences, not by others'.

They're not proof or facts, they're just paid opinions.

That would imply they gave the bad Sonic games good scores

youtu.be/EAHpMVtmeqc?t=5m31s

>sonic fans

>Maybe because it's impossible? Just like with Castlevania
Both of these things are completely possible. For Castlevania, you have Dark Souls. OK, jumping isn't a thing anymore. But think about it, everything else that makes Castlevania so great, is in Dark Souls. A Metroid-esque world structure, similar weapon system, similar damage types, similar left hand and right hand weapon wielding, similar theme and tone. Dark Souls is Castlevania in 3D, if you overlook the lack of jumping.

As for Sonic... What does everyone say they want to see in a 3D Sonic? He runs fast, but he can also do some parkour in order to maintain speed, should her encounter obstacles. Able to run up walls, and the control feel really tight, he's not unwieldy. Well... They made a game with those mechanics. it's called Prototype funnily enough. Prototype is the prototype for how Sonic should play in 3D. Just look at how easy it is to run around and high speeds in this game. And that came out back in 2009.

>Listen buddy, if you overthink something enough, you can turn anything into an edgefest.
That's kind of my point. Just because SA2 was slightly more serious in tone, doesn't mean it's overly edgy. All they did was acknowledge the real stakes. Sonic could die. Eggman with a gun is actually threatening. Not all the good guys win in the end.

You're over thinking this into an edge fest, when it's really not.

how the fuck cares about og sonic fans lmao

Sonic 4 episode 1 got 8.5/10 from IGN
I rest my case

Are you implying those opinions were formed by their own experiences and not a meta narrative formed by the review enclave that was exposed during the whole goobergater controversy?

tssznews.com/2016/08/01/in-depth-sonic-in-the-mainstream-gaming-media/

Why would you put your trust in people who get paid for good reviews? Are you certain they're not also getting paid to give poor reviews to competition?

When you can offer proof of an as objective review as possible you might have a case.

>Eggman wields a gun in every game
No he doesn't
Not in the classic games

>They never even bothered to properly adapt the gameplay of the originals
It's because it's impossible

>I think the only time they got it right were the 3D stages in Sonic Generations.
That was Sonic Rush in 3D not the classic gameplay

And it was done in Unleashed first

SA1 and 2 are Naruto-tier garbage

Sonic 4 Episode 1 also had a metascore of 72, while Sonic Adventure 2 had a metascore of 89.

You could argue they simply paid more critics off for Adventure 2 at the time, since Adventure 2 Battle had a metascore of 73 just a year later.

>OK, jumping isn't a thing anymore.
Which is a big part of the classic castlevania games

And besides Dark Souls is nothing like Castlevania you don't really fight with a whip and you don't fight medusaheads, bats etc.

Just because it's "difficult" doesn't mean it's Castlevania

Sonic is inherently a 2D game
Things like Badnik bouncing, precise bouncing off of bumpers, precise manipulation of the terrain are borderline impossible in 3D

Not to mention the physics are inherently 2D and you hit the problem where you either choose controls where you can maintain momentum but it's hard to change direction on a whim(Boost style) or you choose fluid controls but as soon as you shift into a 2 degree angle you lose most of your speed(Adventure)

>The problem with 3D sonic is that it got too serious for its own good.

It stopped being serious with Colors. Also the same game when it finally found it's footing in 3D compared to everything before it.

Shut up gamecube millenial

>Sonic 4 Episode 1 also had a metascore of 72
That's way too high
Once again I rest my case

>unironically posting articles by that faggot Donnie

>this whole thing

>when it finally found it's footing in 3D
This never happened
And Colors was mostly a 2D Game anyhow(a bad one at that)

It's story heavy but I actually like the gameplay for the most part.

Final Rush is the best sonic level of all time

>People bitch Sonic is more about dramatic bullshit than gameplay now, implying the gameplay is bad
>"Then you should be playing the game and not focusing on the dramatic stuff!"

Nigga, you got this shit completely backwards. YOUR ass should be playing your dramatic as fuck game, since you obviously love it.

Technically, his floating pod thing is always equipped with some kind of gun.
And that eggbot thing from Sonic&Knuckles holds a gun.

>Technically, his floating pod thing is always equipped with some kind of gun.
No it isn't
It has lasers and shit but not an out right Gun

>And that eggbot thing from Sonic&Knuckles holds a gun.
That's Eggrobo not Robotnik

Great rebuttal.

You don't necessarily play with a whip in Symphony of the Night either. And you can equip a whip in Dark Souls, if you like. Dark Souls is a metroidvania in 3D. Exchange medusa heads with mosquitos and it's essentially the same thing. It's not even aobut the "difficulty" either. Because most of the metroidvania are piss easy. It's really about the structure. You just have to think about it a little harder. I don't feel like sitting here and listing every bit of minutia. They're similar in just about every respect, except platforming.

>Things like Badnik bouncing, precise bouncing off of bumpers, precise manipulation of the terrain are borderline impossible in 3D
Are you like, legitimately retarded? You think jumping attop of enemies is inherently 2D? Mario 64 figured out how to do that 20 years ago. The kind of control you want Sonic to have over the terrain was figured out with Prototype in 2009. These physics aren't impossible. They already exist. Go google prototype gameplay. Or, Saints Row 4. The physics have been figured out already. Sonic Team is just incompetent.

A laser, is a gun, silly. You shoot, and it kills. His gun in SA2, was likely a laser as well. Because that's just the kind of technology he utilizes.

>That's Eggrobo not Robotnik
Same difference. An egg shaped villain with a big mustache was aiming a gun at animals. You're really going to split hairs?

>Not knowing who Donnie is
If you knew who he was you wouldn't be posting that article

>Symphony of the Night
Not a classic castlevania
That's a metroidvania

Classic Castlevania is Castlevania 1, 3, Bloodlines, Rondo of Blood

>we aren't working on sonic adventure 3 but are interested in doing so
What did Sonic Team mean by this?

you know that we're on a discussion board to share opinions right?

It was not shaped like a gun
Robotnik just shot laser from his pod like spaceships do in Star Wars

No it isn't
Eggrobo is a fucking literal Robot

They meant "we already made SA3 in 2006"

It's just a game, bro.

Still not an argument.
You're resorting to ad-hominem. I don't care if he's a pedophile or necrophiliac, that doesn't play into the article whatsoever.

That's right, our opinions. Not shills' opinions.

This is right

If you cared about Gameplay you wouldn't be playing Sonic games.

but "you should only judge a game by its merits and your own experiences, not by others" senpai. just like you said.

this

How does that conflict with anything that I said?

You should check out Super Sonic X Universe m8

im not saying the sentiment is right but sonic lost worlds really does fucking suck. i thought "man it can't be that bad" so tried it anyways and was even more disappointed than i thought i would be. it was extremely average first and foremost, the few sections you actually ran around were pretty fun but there are entire 20 second sections where you can sit your controller down and have sonic run around the map. every level chock full of sequences that completely remove player control, and im talking 75 percent of the level for fucks sake. i don't know how they could take such a great idea and ruin it but they did and i blame boost fags

Sonic Heroes was the closest thing we've had to a Sonic Adventure 3, certainly more than '06 was. It actually built directly off their storylines.

Not all of us have the money to try each and every game ourselves. The opinions of thsoe who already own games we may be interested in it can help us steer ourselves away from buyer's remorse. It's not complicated, it's simple.

>Sonic Heroes was the closest thing we've had to a Sonic Adventure 3
LOL no
Sonic Heroes was like Chaotix in 3D

Whether you like it or not cupcake '06 was SA3

SA2s gameplay is shit though. The speed stages were watered down and consist mostly of the barely interactive sky tunnel parts from SA1 like Speed Highway 1 and Windy Valley 3. The side gameplay was even shittier and mandatory for unlocking more speed content.

>Still not an argument.
Go back to ledit

So why was Sonic Unleashed in development as "Sonic Adventure 3" before becoming "Sonic World Adventure"? Clearly Sega did not recognize '06 as being 3.

Still not an argument m8y

>i'll just call him redditfag and call it a day
wew lad

>>>/global/rules/2

SA1 was the start of bringing in the real world for no reason.

>hurr, gameplay has to be identical between sequels

What is Paper Mario to you?

>So why was Sonic Unleashed in development as "Sonic Adventure 3" before becoming "Sonic World Adventure"?
It wasn't
I don't know where you heard that but that's bs

Paper Mario is Paper Mario
It's not Super Mario RPG 2(and yes I'm aware it was called that during development at one point but there's a reason they changed the title)

Either way Sonic '06 was far more like the Adventure games than Heroes ever was

>Speaking to Official Nintendo Magazine, Sonic Team's Yoshihisa Hashimoto has revealed that gamers should expect Unleashed to feel more like a third game in the Sonic Adventure series than a follow-up to either the previous Xbox 360 and PS3 Sonic title or Sonic and the Secret Rings.

>"As a development team, we originally started off this project planning to create Sonic Adventure 3", Hashimoto told the magazine. "In our minds, this game will have more in common with the older Sonic Adventure series. It has no relation to Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic and the Secret Rings".

kek

Time for a FOOD ANALOGY:

>If you care more about the quality of the food than decor in a restaurant you would be eating your delicious steak and not crying about how you were seated on a pile of fresh garbage

Just because something is low priority when it comes to an overall experience it doesn't mean that aspect being utterly shit can't ruin the whole thing.

Stop overthinking things.

respond please

>look at all these bad reviews
>b-but thats because all the people that like it are too busy playing it!!
This is literally self delusion

They only said that because '06 and Secret Rings were so horrible so they wanted to deflect from that

And he said "when they started"
The project clearly turned into something completely different over time(Sonic Rush in 3D)

By saying it will be more like the SA games Hashimoto was basically saying "This time it will be good we swear gaiz"

>call someone's factual claim bs
>person provides factual evidence
>"yeah, well the company was just lying because I said so"

Adventurefags are really this deluded.

Idiocy. They could have made a Sonic game.
instead, they made a game that's like 40% Sonic and the rest a variety bag of half-assed gameplay stiles.
and then they did it again in SA2
and then they didn't even try in Heroes

Unleashed onward are fine about being all Sonic, it's just that now Sonic just handles like a sack of bricks with a rocket attached and the stages make even less effort in disguising the fact that they're essentially gigantic corridors.

what is this even trying to say

Dunno if it's the best (certainly not in all of Sonic, but probably the best in 3D Sonic), but it's certainly pretty damn good.

>muh Sonic was never good

SA2 is about as serious as DBZ, something Sonic has consistently been inspired by.

SA1 really didn't deserve the high reviews it got on release. I enjoy a fair bit of the game still, but it's so fucking jank, even by 1999 standards.

But the gameplay was shit excluding the few sonic/shadow stages. Honestly how does this get more praise than Unleashed when it's practically the same and werehog was at least semi-bearable.

>SA2 is about as serious as DBZ, something Sonic has consistently been inspired by.

Which is a pretty fair comparison since DBZ is another series that takes itself way too seriously despite how insipidly moronic and childish it is.

>Unlike nime in general

Mostly just shounen anime, with few exceptions.

thats perfectly valid. i don't eat at restaurants with lowlighting and sports trinkets on the wall

>Mostly just shounen anime, with few exceptions.

>implying DBZtards watch anything besides DBZ

What are you implying? That every anime take itself seriously?

I'm implying the vast majority is crap.

That doesn't mean much coming from a DBZtard.

Sonic has this to say about that

>pic related

ho, dont' get me wrong, dbz is utter crap, indeed.