Is he right?

Is he right?

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Depends on genre. If you're a story-based game it should be closer to the source, but if it's gameplay-based then you should consider that players won't understand obscure references to Japanese TV/History

Some things just don't translate well or the general audience for a game will not understand some cultural references/figures of speech. In this case it is fine to change stuff. So he is half right.

That Mark guy is right. You're not paid to shove memes in a game and instantly date it.

Direct translations work if you know how to circunvent language barriers instead of just using google translate.
Creativity might come into this, but it doesn't mean that you should change the entirety of the meaning of the original in the process.

Being creative doesn't mean twisting the ever living fuck out of the original dialogue into something completely fucking different.

Yes. Next question.

Direct translations do not work, sure, but there's a fine line between the dryness of a direct translation, and a fucking dank meme factory.

Rrrghg rawrgghh rrrh!

Aw i love you too.

Being right is being right, you cant say he is only half right

You can't exactly translate word for word but still you can't change it up too much

It's almost like it's more complicated than a 140 character statement

Yes. Mark Kern is an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about but feels entitled to an opinion anyway.

Reminds me of you

Memes aren't creative

The only thing that should be changed in the text is when Direct Translations do not make sense, in which case you should translate it as faithfully as possible whilst making it flow well, and when there are puns/references that do not work for the western audience, in the case of puns, reword it a bit to keep the pun, and in case of references, either scrap it or keep it with some form of TL note, do NOT put in some other 'reference' in place of it.

I'd take a super-direct translation over a fucking 'localisation' hack-job filled with memes and rewrites any day. Fuck all those translators who do the latter, which is the majority of them.

>AN A PRESS IS AN A PRESS

no u

To an extent, Persona's full-on japanese translation was just bizarre with all the untranslated meal options and honourifics
Atlus should have packaged a glossary with that game.

translation is all about conveying the same message and theme that was being conveyed in the original statement.

Obviously not like, google translate word for word, and small creative liberties should be made otherwise things would be awkward and off. However re-writing or removing parts of scripts is nothing but disrespectful to the original creators, and a deformation of their efforts.

Wow congrats man you got the reference

Good localization are memes and pop culture jokes or meta jokes (looking at you Color Splash)

>original text
I like this item
>meme localization """""creatives"""""
i LiKe DiCkS xD

Good job, you got his reference. Want a pat on the back?

Idioms and metaphors too.

A good translation definitely requires some creativity, in the sense that you have to find ways to translate references and figures of speech without them losing their meaning. Literally just changing the reference for something the West or the East understands is not good translation.
My rule of thumb is, if you read the same line in different languages and they come up with different nuances, it's shit and the translator is shit.

Yes, he is right, and it's fitting that his avatar is Koops from TTYD because that game would have been a much weaker and less charming experience if it had a weak localization team.

No, he's an egotistical idiot

Translation does require creativity in order to find a way to convey the original message in the new language, which can often be challenging as some languages may have difficulties communicating the same points due to numerous cultural and linguistic differences. In some cases, if the work relies on some unique language elements, such as word-play or poetic language that is not available in the target language, creativity is also required to create something new of equal value and similar tone or message.

The problem is only when you are trying to change the MESSAGE because you believe the new cultural context is not ready to accept the same message.

If you start changing important elements of the story, such as changing the nature of relationship between characters or their characteristics, if you start changing ages, context, etc... that is when it's not about creativity anymore, it is about MORAL judgements. And THAT is the real thing translators should never impose into their work.


Translators have the right and even obligation to be creative, but they have no right to impose their own moral standards on the work.

Hell yeah, it's pretty much censorship since it's someone else changing the original content because they think it's better thier way.

He's right. Granted it shouldn't be changing simple jokes to meme references.

What's your favorite idea? Mine is being creative!

>translates dialogue into memes

Memes are not a creative color

Well, it is certainly true that it's impossible to convey 100% of meaning with all the subtle meanings and connotations while translation, and oftentimes, some stuff doesn't translate at all, as it is with proverbs and puns.
That doesn't mean that a translator has the right to not stick to the original text and invent his own stuff.
Well, at least in regards to books and comics, it's possible to do side-notes - not so much in games.

Well, Mark Kern's been a failure ever since he left Blizzard, so I don't trust anything he says.

Obviously.

This actually got me thinking, why don't games add the equivalent of a translator's Note? If it's an item description it's obviously easier, if it's in dialogue, possibly have some sort of in-game manual with a sort explanation.

Depends. That dude who translated Final Fantasy VI did a pretty good job.

Yes, but you don't rewrite the game into a meme.

Localizers shouldn't start rewriting whole characters or stories because of their own personal beliefs.
If you have a character who likes making puns though then they should at least try and work that into the localization though.
Things get more gray if say a character likes a kind of unique food only Japanese people might know, so they translate it as some kind of fancy western dish to give the same effect or just leave it as is.

Tweaking language barriers=/= creative

The 1st one being your fucking job and the second being something you do on your own.

Don't pretend playing with honorifics is the same thing as inserting your fucking shitty memes into pokemon you stupid fuck.

This is correct but no one's gonna address it because everyone in this thread would rather shout MEMES AND CENSORSHIP AM I RIGHT with no basis before they ever acknowledged good localization.

You need too look WHAT is said no WHO said it

One's a Trump supporting retard

The other's a Hillary loving leftist hugbox fuckboy

Both of them are fucking faggots and so are you OP, stop posting twitter screencap threads.

>in case of references, either scrap it or keep it with some form of TL note, do NOT put in some other 'reference' in place of it.
This is what's known in the biz as a bad translation.

Believe it or not but translations aren't made for the hardcore weeb audience. They know Japanese anyway if they're serious about it. No, translations are made to appeal to the target culture. You're going to want to end up with a game that has a (more or less) equivalent effect on its target audience as the original did in the source culture. That means that if there is some funny reference that would not be understood in the target culture, you should absolutely replace it with one that would be commonly understood. You don't want to break up the flow with "[TL: they are referring to something that happened in Tokyo in 1989, it's really funny if you know Japanese, basically what happened was...]" and you usually don't want to completely remove it either because then you're definitely not getting that equivalent effect you're aiming for.

For renowned works of art, it's worth sticking to the original text as closely as possible and inserting footnotes for the serious scholar. For entertainment for kids, fuck off with that elitist bullshit.

ted woolsey is based

Didn't localization change some Fire Emblem gentle giant type of guy into generic big dumb brute asshole?

I also remember a year or so back there was a series of tweets discussed here by some localizer about how they had to work hard to make a games localization "acceptable" because characters were saying "offensive" things.

It's almost like they completely lack the capacity to understand that fictional characters have all the range of human existence, meaning that a fictional character can be a bigoted asshole and is conveyed as such by making bigoted, asshole statements.

>le enlightened fence sitter

so brave!

The only thing that won't work in a direct translation is jokes/references to asian culture etc.

So it depends if your game is trying to tell a story or trying to be entertaining.

If it's the latter, get a writer to meet the original writer, and give them the character designs, their writing notes e.g. personality traits, quirks, goals etc.
So the English writer doesn't come up with anything new, they just find a way to incorporate all the notes and ideas into the smoothest English version possible.

Changing any of the notes or ideas to suit their opinions and ideals = fire that retard immediately and find someone else.

There, no censorship and entertaining games get entertaining scripts, while story telling games just get direct translations and are therefore carried by the talent of the original writer.

>le redpilled Cred Forums crossposting faggot!

kill yourself!

Amazing user

He's right, direct translations do not work, especialy when it involves Japanese memes, slang and colloquialisms.

...

>All of these "Direct translation doesn't work" faggots


Nigga its fucking grammar that need to be changed, and that is just about it.

The only shit that doesn't translate perfectly is puns, and that still translates fine a good 50% of the time, because the modern jap language has roots in English.

Why are do the European English translations have less memes per sentence than American?

I'm an actual interpreter and on the job I'm required to translate word for word.

Even if I know what the phrase is and I can relay the message better, I'm there to translate words in that room, not voice what I think the person said.

A friendly reminder that SJWs are fixing the problematic parts in your games.

Direct translations are horrible but can go bad if they put too much creativity on it. A good translator should be able to balance it out. A shitty translator just fucking throws memes in.

It's been long overdue, to be honest. Unlike what says, you can simply offer both. Make a """""good""""" translation like he says for what appears to be the unwashed masses, and add a translators note with more original and faithful information. Normies aren't forced to look at the TL note nor will they get cancer from it being there. I'm sure they're used to ignoring footnotes in originally foreign language books too.

i agree with this but itll take someone dedicated with their work to go that far with it

Woah epic assumption my dude! Glad you could assess that because I shat on both primary candidates!

aw widdle wingnut mad someone isn't voting his way?

Nintendo wants this shit to sell and they're not going to appreciate someone they pay to localise their games choosing to die on the hill of muh artistic integrity at the expense of their mass appeal.

...but they are? If you get so invested into something where an attack on it defines who you are, then you've got some issues.

Because NoA is shit.

>this is a character the player is meant to dislike because they are racist/sexist
>SJW localizer "sanitizes" localization
>players begin to say "character X did nothing wrong" because as far as they can tell they're a perfectly decent person

Can every thread not be about your shitty fucking meme election?

Unless you want to read shit like "as expected of delinquent school juniors, it cannot be helped that Takami-kun became no good", you need some sort of rewrite

It all comes down to quality. A good localization job can elevate a game. Inserting references and memes is not a good localization job, though.

>using this an excuse to literally rape the entire game

>VIDEO GAMES
>TRANSLATOR

Just like their journalist counterpart, these 'professionals' are the laughing stock of the other medium.

This reminds me of a Shakespeare work that was translated into Portuguese. I forget the name of the translator but he did what seemed impossible. He kept the flow, the meaning, the rhymes, everything perfect without the need to add a single note explaining why something didn't rhyme or didn't make sense.

I'll go with direct translations, thank you very much.

"figures a troublemaker like him would end up amounting to nothing"

WOW THAT WAS HARD.

>literally provides a grammar example

Shove it up ur ass faggot, its like you didn't even read my post

Don't you know kiddo?

Cred Forums is just blue Cred Forums

Yes, but only to certain level. For example, if something was translated from French to English and mentions crepes at some point, they don't need to change it to pancakes. Let the consumer find out what crepes are. Or even better, do what some anime fansubs do and put a small explanation of what they are on-screen for a second.

Never go full jelly donuts.

Maybe if you guys didn't hack up scripts worse than they were and insert your own "writing" people would respect you more. Instead you've practically the same integrity as games journalists

The Bud Spencer & Terence Hill movies were especially successful in Germany because they largely ignored the story and basically did their own translation. It's hit and miss, but only autists throw a fit because "muh not 100% direct translation".

youtube.com/watch?v=pa2bzGisA74

as someone that started learning moonrunes 9 months ago and has only 3k mature kanji aka not much but not nothing...
translation is not the same as interpretation

they are two different things and should be treated as such
people want 'as close to the source' as possible, but thats never really been possible
they weren't translating something at all, it was interpreting because direct is awkward as fuck, doesnt make sense in the target language and doesnt get the message across

This is why you hear a word or phrase you already know but shows up differently and feel cheated

Meaning is language agnostic; you just want to avoid learning an entire language but you also cant stop yourself from passively absorbing definitions in that language

If you want to avoid interpretations then you have to cast off the shackles of english only and start grinding a different wiki.

>Direct translation
>Fine line
>Dank meme factory
I'd say the difference is quite obvious and there's absolutely a middle ground.

god forbid you call people out on stupid black and white mentalities

SJW ideologues censoring games into propaganda should be fired.
SJW ideologues censoring games into propaganda should be fired.
SJW ideologues censoring games into propaganda should be fired.

I don't pay for "culturalization", I pay for T R A N S L A T I O N.

If something absolutely DOES NOT translate, it needs to be changed. The best examples of this are wordplay or puns, like Zeppeli's jokes in JJBA Part 6.

If something does translate just fine but is an idea that the translator doesn't agree with or understand, then that translator needs to be fucking fired if it gets changed. This is especially true if it's something important to character or story, or is a joke that's replaced with some retarded fucking internet reference (with the rare exception of it being a jap internet reference that westerners wouldn't get, which would be appropriate to change to something like that)

It's not that complex.

Maybe with a menu option to turn them on, that defaults to off, but otherwise, no.

But that's extra work and requires programming that wasn't in the original instead of just replacing text and audio files so that's not going to happen.

Politifact rates this statement half false.

kek, but that was also a meme my man

>we're going to build a 3000 mile long wall to keep out immigrants where the only feasible way to do it without spending a trillion is to use immigrant labor
>serious conviction

if you're going to adopt a meme candidate and act all edgy and outrageous try not to take yourselves so seriously.

Direct translations really don't work.
However, a translator should adjust the translation to better convey the original message instead of replacing it with a completely different one.

...

>expressing displeasure with two political candidates means you don't have any serious convictions or beliefs
wew
these pictures are honestly embarrassing

Who is that balding deplorable and why should I care?

in after and before a bunch of dunning krugerite, triggered animeNEETs

No, in my opinion as an actual translator. You should stick to minimal creative liberties during translations to sustain the intent behind the writing.

In these cases they generally localize stuff to remove the very japanese things, cultural references, etc. And just base censorship as if this would make the game more marketable when the prime market in the first place is weebs that WANT the japanesishness.

keep the frame of the story and the general characterization intact but i don't give a fuck if the translator completely changes a japanese-ass joke to a joke that english speakers would understand

>It's almost like they completely lack the capacity to understand that fictional characters have all the range of human existence, meaning that a fictional character can be a bigoted asshole and is conveyed as such by making bigoted, asshole statements.
But what if it's clear to the translator, who has worked to gain an understanding of the source text and the source culture, that the character was not intended to be a bigoted asshole, but he just appears that way to the target culture?

That's a rewrite
The grammar is perfectly fine in English, it's the lexicon that has to be changed

Mark Kern has been right about everything since I started following him.

no hes not. as someone who speaks many languages, you only need to translate meaning. you dont need to be creative, unless theres no translation obviously. leftists try to pretend everything subjective/artistic/creative/social construct because then they get to inject their marxist religion into it.

Just put the fucking phrase in the game, even if you don't think anyone will get it.

How will people ever learn foreign idioms and phrases if they are never allowed to experience them?

Translating game be very hard, a lot of things don't translate over well. In fact, many things in one language don't exist at all in another (not tumblr but pronouns are a good example). When that is the case, do you best to keep the intention while changing into the target language.

Faggots who just write bullshit because they think it "feels" better are scum. It's not your job to edit the product as it has already been edited. Just deliver in into the target language while maintaining as much integrity as possible.

It is my personal anecdotal evidence that people who are incompetent tend to re-write more and more because their skillset is too poor, and they try and make up for their shortcomings by making it "feel better" instead.

Fucking 4kids tier bullshit. When they butcher the script you end up getting a different product than was created, which is almost fucking fanfiction. I always mad.

>(with the rare exception of it being a jap internet reference that westerners wouldn't get, which would be appropriate to change to something like that)

>rare

wew

>b-b-b-but grorious japanese never make internet meme references

The Dunning Kruger Effect Strikes Again!

>the modern jap language has roots in English
Nigga what

That's a translation. It's not a direct translation, its an idiomatic translation, and that's what its about.

Changing idioms is what makes it a rewrite.

They're both right but the point remains that memes are not good localizations because they do not interpret the dialogue in a way that is in the spirit of the original text.

Always remember
"People die, when they are killed"

I feel like stuff like this is very commonly done for very serious moments in Japanese drama, because it stresses on the mood, but in English it's highly redundant and sounds stupid as hell. Translators should be able to take that into a more correct English version that flows well, but still carrys the intended weight, and that comes a lot from both understanding Japanese, AND understanding English to pull off, something I feel like a lot of current translators lack both of, and rely on machines, or just ab-libbing as they desire.

It's amazing how well the script worked out with the limited character space and censorship forced upon him by NoA. The entire game not being allowed to say death. I know ol' Ted was disappointed in how Secret of Mana turned out because of the monospaced font turning the story into telegraphese.

>as close to the source as possible
>not possible
I know you just worded it wrong but you can't translate word for word, that's where "creativity" comes into play. You try to translate it as close to the source as possible but have to change some stuff so it still makes sense in the translated language.

I mean, if something is referencing pop culture or a joke or something like that, you may have to chance the reference if it isn't widely known in the first place

No. its grammar

Unless you concider sentence structure to be anything else

>Takami-kun became no good", as expected of delinquent school juniors; it cannot be helped

wow so hard to fix

German translations for Nintendo games are c&a. Also Ni No Kuni had very crative and funny names. I was surprised.

t. usually plays his vidya in english

Then you leave it the way it is. You also have no influence over the grade of education, knowledge, personal background or opinions of the consumer, as much as you do over their cultural background. It is not of your concern. You reproduce the work as it was given. Your example especially assumes that the translator considers himself to be the 100% accurate and universally present authority of how someone of the "target culture" would interpret that work in every single case, and that itself is ludicrous.

Think of translators that work in politics, they don't put their own 'creativity' (read: agenda) into their translation. Translations can't always be direct, but creativity does not factor in, you change certain things to make it better understood, that's it.

Imagine if they did.

>picking one word out of an argument to overemphasize and take in the wrong direction
>using it to argue against a point that wasn't in the post to begin with
wew

>It's not a direct translation, its an idiomatic translation
That's the point, direct translation doesn't work, you have to deviate from the original if you want to convey the meaning

Both statements are correct. Maintaining the message across languages requires creativity.

Changing the message because of translator whim makes for a shit translation.

Because immersion is usually a higher priority than narrative fidelity in games.

Good localization does require changing various things to better fit the region the game is being brought to, such as a japanese play on words which doesn't make any sense in english or some obscure reference that only someone from japan would know, you would put in english and american equivalents.
That's why it's called localization.

Altering the original for no apparent reason and shoving memes into the script is amateurish at best.
Kern is absolutely correct.

Yes. That's what Kern was getting at. His second sentences is a complaint about people changing idioms. His first statement about direct translation is wrong, but his complaint is right.

Idiomatic translation still isn't a rewrite, though.

I sincerely doubt it was a word for word translation though. I've seen sonnets like that and they're perfectly good sonnets that you wouldn't know are grounded in a different language, but once you see two translations of the same sonnet by different poets you realise the amount of creativity that went into creating an entirely new sonnet that still conveyed the sense of the original. It's like, the same but completely different, you know?

Translating poetry is one of the most creatively demanding challenges a translator could face and word for word translations, especially with restricted forms like the sonnet, aren't going to work.

serious mature games for mature gamers - you better stick close to the source material, especially if it's set in Japan

lighthearted meme games like nepnep - you have more freedom to do whatever

That's still unnatural as fuck

You can convey the meaning just fine with a direct translation. It just sounds robotic because English and Japanese don't work the same way.

Well put. "Direct translation" seems like an impossible dream.

>In closing, let us praise the one certifiably great thing about Metal Gear Solid 4, and the one shining beacon that fills us with faith in Kojima’s future productions: the flow of the dialogue. It’s occasionally hilarious how well Kojima is able to write rhythmic dialogue. It clips and breezes along; the most portentous sentences become urgent poetic moments that transcend the base stupidity of the plot. Of course, you’d never know this if you played the game in English — the script appears to have been translated by the Elephant Man banging his head on a keyboard. There’s a line where Naomi says “If you want to change your fate, you’ll have to meet your destiny”. What the shit? In Japanese, she uses the same word for “fate” (unmei) twice, one instance of which being the first word of the sentence. This is to lend the sentence some kind of parallel structure. Even given the flipping idiocy of the moment, it makes for a neat little verbal-ironic turnaround: “The only way to change your fate is to go forth and meet it.” In other words, the only way Snake can possibly outlive his terrible fate (death) is by running straight at it, instead of letting it crash into him while he sits there doing nothing. This is a nice little sentence that no doubt has already inspired several dozen fanfiction-writing Japanese fourteen-year-olds.

Depends on how creative we're talking here.

Changing a shitty joke that only makes sense in Japanese to a shitty joke that makes sense in the west is fine.

Doing something like what Capcom did to Ace Attorney however can lead to issues, specifically in that instance having the game set in America can break immersion when Japanese cultural themes happen, the latest game has a case about a Rakugo for example.

Should it just replace "are killed" with "fight"?

"People die when they fight"
Which is then put into context of someone talking about fighting in general or talking as a rebuttal to someone promoting fighting. Either it's conveying a mood or it's dialogue, but people can naturally tell the difference in context.

not hard 2bh who r dese numale faglords geting jobs fr this siht

Part and parcel of the reason why people change the phrases to suit English to make them 'better' is because the meanings of the phrases, when directly translated, don't make any sense.

Leaving the phrases in as written only results in an awkward sentence that nobody gets.

>How will people ever learn foreign idioms and phrases if they are never allowed to experience them?
Because nobody in their right mind will ever say 'Oh by the way the above phrase is actually an idiom and means this:'. The only way you'd actually know it's a foreign saying in the first place instead of just a fucking mess of a sentence is either by looking it up, or being told, which is a completely shitty way of experiencing a sentence.

Talk about running a joke into the ground

>This is not how languages an different cultures work
Thats exactly how it works for 90%. Only the remaining 10% need to be substantially altered to make sense and/or establish references.

Yes Mark is correct. The only instance that it should be altered would be a very obscure reference and even then the mingling of cultures between US and JP as far as gaming goes as come to a point where we get half of the obscure references.

Need proof? Play Steins;Gate.
There's no need to veer away from the source material nearly as much as they do now.

>literally justifying "eat your hamburgers apollo" levels of retardation.
No thank you

Translate the majority

Localize only if the writer/dev/publisher would want you to

That is all

>Then you leave it the way it is.
No, you don't. This is part of the job of a translator. To think about the text they've been given and what it is meant to convey, and how to do that in the target language. A good translation is impossible otherwise. You say "you reproduce the work as given" but that's a naive and idealistic view. Something is always lost in translation, even in a personal project where you have all the time in the world and can do everything just how you want it, let alone in a commercial affair where your employer has all sorts of demands for the end product, which is how it'll be for most video game translations.

Translations that change the meaning are just as unprofessional as translations that are literal (which also effectively changes the meaning in another language).

Translation practices are are a well studied discipline. It's only a problem in video games and other shit like that because even industry "professionals" aren't actually professional at all. They're just people who know both languages, which is a prerequisite, but by far not the main qualification to being an actual professional translator.

And yes, translation needs to be very creative. Except not grade school "creative" in the sense of "anything goes as long as it's fun", but actually creative in the sense that it's very intellectually demanding and never mechanical.

Anyone want some burgers?

wwwwww

Did you start following him this afternoon?

Hang on, let me check real quick if he hasn't managed to put his foot in his mouth all afternoon.

take of everything after the simi-colon, tada its natural

The "it can not be helped" part is unnecessary in the first place unless your statement is are referencing someone you are speaking too at some point in time. Because for that statement to work it even in Japaneses you would still have to infer who you re talking to for the info to be relevant. A avg person doesn't care that nothing can be don't about the delinquency making it pointless to reference, and if your statement had a proper noun to reference the person you where speaking to like it should you can just add the it can't be helped p[art to who you are addressing.

steep it up sempai

I wonder if Japanese people argue about this stuff when Call of Duty comes to their shores.

LINKING PARK

I don't play games to hear the wit and creativity of the translator. Make it direct, but coherent English. All I ask.

I'd say this would translate better as "In this battle, the loser dies".

Video games are not politics.

Yeah, I know, you wouldn't know from looking at Cred Forums.

localization is an archaic form of translation. At it's core it's deceptive, dishonest, and main usage has been from a marketing standpoint as opposed to a creative one. no one needs to "test the waters" so to speak on any type of game. there is a niche for even the tiniest of niches.

we all are interconnected in the world now; we have a global industry and a global economy. people have a much higher capacity for learning of other countries now than they ever did.

localizations are outdated, disingenuous and cynical.

MY CHEMICAL ROMANS

>“If you want to change your fate, you’ll have to meet your destiny”.

to

>“The only way to change your fate is to go forth and meet it.”

Cryptic versus "don't be a pussy motherfucker"
Anyone who actually reads beyond the script, people who might have been given the actual audio recording (and understanding it) in addition to any character design documents stating how a character would try to say something right in context could spot this mistake easily.

I think the largest problem with bad translations besides non-native speakers attempting/editing it is the only material they're being granted is just transcripts, or transcripts they had to make by hand. Japanese on paper is more literal sure, with English we have to hear what they say either in our heads or directly to understand any vague sentences.

there was nothing wrong with 'People die when they are killed'. the next line is him saying that's the natural order and the way it should be, since he's talking about giving up the functional immortality he possesses. He's saying the way he just 'gets better' after suffering lethal wounds is unnatural. his enemies kill him but he doesn't die. he just gets back up.

>Ramirez-kun, defend that ramen shop

Creativity is necessary to change some things such as puns or obscure cultural references in games that have a wider target audience. Turning that 2ch reference in Neptunia into "Neppit" was a good move since it keeps the joke, turning rice balls into donuts in Pokemon adds nothing at all.

This user has a good point in that JP is more about expression than literal accuracy when it comes to the differences in languages.

However we've got a large enough vocabulary to change those expressions into something that accurately portrays that in every possible way that JP might come up with.

The ability to do so and make it coherent though is really what's at odds here and as of late the translation teams have been faltering heavily.

Rather than trying to express moods or the intensity of the moment they'll alter the dialogue to something off the cuff and that kills any impact it was supposed to have.

Translations issues like that are the basis of the grumbling you hear from fans.

Sasuga, Takumi-kun! You became a delinquent!

You can convey part of the meaning, sure. But you add another meaning, in this case, "this character talks like a robot speaking through google translate". That can't be what the original author intended either, can it?

And because of that 10%, this is not how languages and different cultures work.

People are fallible user. It's more about a ratio of "this guy's an idiot" to "he might be on to something" that matters.

>What is an analogy

Making dialogue more fluid is one thing, memes and rewrites are pure cancer.

Persona 4's manual had a glossary in it.

Oh wait, user doesn't buy games.

How would one properly translate a work with a heavy focus on foreign puns and pop culture?

Yeah and I'm telling you the guy is an attention whoring moron and you're an idiot for following him.

I think people grossly underestimate our ability to decipher nonsense from context. Shit, people have to decipher black twitter every single day.

>praising literal translations
>when Vento Auro had, until recently, a literal translation that made most of the characters flat as fuck, resulting in it being the least popular part in the west despite being the most popular one in japan

Partially. Some jokes only work due to plays on words within the original language, some sayings and local idioms only make sense within their own culture. A number of these can be localized to similar sayings or jokes to the same effect. Something will be lost but having to stop the flow of dialogue to explain a joke or saying would break the flow of the game and likely ruin the joke.

The problem is when text is changed for seemingly arbitrary or stupid reasons. Like the translators finding a idea offensive or not to their tastes.

Esty Dee

I need a better translator for your posts.

The same way desert punk did. Try to find something that's similar in our own culture and use it.

"People stay dead when they are killed."
Bam, no context needed. Tautological statement turned into a proper observation.

he's right but obviously if you deviate too far from the original text your story will start to fall apart and the translator will have to make shit up as he goes to fill the gaps

the key, like with all things, is a balance

For jokes and such where the joke is based on a pun or something of the like. However, that doesn't mean you're free to willy nilly dally about and just fucking ignore the core message or change the whole conversation to portray characters differently among other thing for the purpose of being "Hip", to fit an agenda or just to make the game more "Mainstream".

This user got it right Again, I can understand changing to make a metaphor, joke or a reference more relevant to the West, but I cannot see how anyone can defend translations where they change the flow, context and mood of a conversation in a game.

The most famous example being the dog in Fire Emblem. Compare the more direct translation with the localisation in the picture with the English one. It removes a small bit of character depth which may not seem like a big deal but you gotta remember it adds up if all conversations are translated like this, leading to characters becoming flatter and more boring than they were originally intended to be.

YOU SPOONY BARD!

The problem with localization, is that the people who are doing it aren't localizing.

They are rewriting the script.

Sure, some things are hard to translate. But it can certainly be done.

The current state of localization is the direct result of a distinct lack of imagination and ability to comprehend Japanese.

Localizes are also arrogant enough to think they can understand how 'language' works.

t. weeaboo living in Japan who is fluent in Japanese

Protip: I'm not that user.

Also attention whoring on twitter is sort of the point of twitter.

Has anyone read Steins;Gate here? S;G got references right. The VN featured a list of terms used trough the story that you could access by a press of a button when the term came up in the text. Useful for looking up what a particular term meant and for all the sciency stuff that the story spouted out. But it was also used to explain all the references that were left in as is. It didn't break the flow and I found it all interesting.

I'd rather take this approach than changing the reference to fit a western culture.

Do one translation with asterisks explaining the jokes and references.

Do another one where new jokes are made up that fit the flow.

Let people pick whichever they prefer.

>haha user you have to choose a flavor of shit to eat
>what do you mean you don't want to eat shit, don't be a hipster

>a literal translation
It was some nice chinese dude that did a very poor attempt at "translation"

Calling it a literal translation is being extremely generous.

>Translating languages isn't dependent on good language
>It's all about creativity and rewriting the foreign culture out of it

WHY DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN HAVE JOBS

Not that.

For a proper analogy you want to find something that is not translation and yet somehow shares a similarity with it, i.e. pretty much the opposite of what you did, find a form of translation different from the form of translation we're talking about.

There's a thing called context.

How long did it take you to learn about the birds and the bees? Same happens with a lot of English exclusive things that are total gibberish but when you think about it, you eventually figure it out.

Now stuff like green hats? That might be a bit difficult to understand fully, but even without knowing the story you can tell that a green hat is a bad thing to wear when the context implies that the person is being mocked.

Eventually you will notice that whenever it comes up, it's talking about a guy being cuckolded and now you have learned a new thing, just like you did in English as a kid.

...

...

Both are right to some extent.

Being creative is fine if you are making dialogue flow better.
Being creative is not okay if you are changing a sidequest about stealing panties to being a sidequest about tipping fedoras.

How do you know it will not sell well? You seem to have this idea that people in droves will return something or not sell at all because there was something in the game that was "morally wrong". Most of the time its some stupid change that needed no change whatsoever like underboob in a T rated game.

Still the best translation of a comedy work into english, I've seen, is the Cromartie dub. I don't know how they managed to do such a fantastic job.

Why do 90% of translators for entertainment media in my country seem like a bunch of uneducated mongoloids?
Almost all the problems I've encountered seem to stem from the translator not having a good understanding of the language. I assume this mongoloid overdose is similar elsewhere.

Here is the latest example
>man of war
>mongoloid translates it as soldier
So that sentence when translated to English would be IIRC something like
>The British Empire sent 20 soldiers across the sea
And this guy is a "professional"
The worst ones are for TV shows/Movies. I can only imagine that it's just as bad for video games.

Goddamn, yes. I want some burgers.

Keep the fidelity, work with a niche audience.
If the work is based on local culture there's always gonna be a chance that a joke or reference is simply untranslatable and has no equivalent in your language.

nobody cares but I am french. french dubs are often bad for many reasons, but one is that they change or add shit for NO reason.

original script
>I had a troubled night.

french dub
>I had nightmares all night long

why not keep the same fucking sentence in french?
alternatively you can be sure this shit happens in jp/eng translations.

Literal translation is indeed shit, but making the text sound natural doesn't imply changing its message, which should never happen.

So what, you like the "cryptic" translation? Because it's not cryptic, it's daft, and actually further removed from the original than the other one is, due to the use of two synonyms where the original had one word. Otherwise they're near-identical in meaning.

they shouldnt change shit.

will that make a lot of jap content kinda strange to understand? yes.

but i like it that way. i like playing a jap game and it being a little bit off. thats part of the charm.

stop white washing video games. diversity is our strength.

>You can't just translate something into a different language

Isn't......isn't that their fucking job? What they are paid to do, adapt foreign language into another language and making slight changes in the event of puns of jokes that cannot be properly translated? If they are going to rewrite the content, why not just hire writers instead of "professional translators"?

t. someone who has never actually seen a raw foreign translated phrase

Try to work out 'he's just are wearing a cat on his head!' in a running sentence

Following anyone on twitter is pretty stupid

Depends how they translate it. Generally it's easier to translate from English to French so that's how they do it. So if the Japanese to English translation is bad, the French one will miss the point even further.

HOKUTO DE CUISINE

nobody except weebs and gigaNEETs care

deal with it

That will never happen on the internet.

The left english reads like someone who genuinely wants to help a dog and someone saying "OMG YOU LIKE BLOOD MAGIC"

The right reads like someone who believes in finality and that it would help ease the dogs suffering by finishing it now. Then someone else stepping in and saying "But wait, death doesn't have to be the only answer in this" to which they reply "Well, if we're going to nurse it back to health together then I guess this is a moment for joy instead".. and then both of them agreeing that coming back from near death is better than it suffering.

Yeah. I'd say something was definitely lost on the left translation. Some pretty immense character development on their outlook of life in general.

Left column is oversimplified and kills any impact the conversation would have had in character development.

Sometimes I wonder if shit like this goes down simply for expediency or if they're really this incompetent. It's either the localization crew dumbing it down because they don't believe their audience can grasp a situations weight or assholes being lazy.

My guess is the latter.

Fuck NISA

>Adding memes
>being creative

you fuck right off you niggerfaggot

If you were to translate something with heavy references then you already know the target audience knows what's up so you'd keep it intact for the most part. Probably have a glossary for the super specific stuff

He explained it in his fucking tweet you double nigger

The whole point is that IT'S THEIR JOB to do so. We aren't getting paid for it, they are. If they are getting paid and they just whine and butcher it, why should we cut them any slack?

Good job, you translated my post wrong.
The first one can be interpreted as "cryptic" and it works... if Naomi was trying to be cryptic like some neutral/anti-hero type, like Liquid pretending to be Kaz.
But we know from playing MGS that Naomi is actually a supportive character and wants to help if they can, so it doesn't work in context because being cryptic is being intentionally unhelpful.

Both sentences work but not for the same purpose. You wouldn't notice this without the context. If someone didn't know Naomi wouldn't be the type to be aloof and annoying they wouldn't have spotted this mistake, which is what I was saying.

sure, just give the translators a raise to please the minority that gives a shit.

They could always learn Japanese to play the original version, but they won't.

You're not wrong.

But what of it?

>what is context

9 V O L T pls you aren't helping your argument.

We can go even further and say twitter is pretty stupid but calling something stupid doesn't keep it from existing. Just look at this cesspool of a website.

This is why they get paid and you don't.

>Muh creativity

The original tweet was saying not to rewrite content, which was the whole point. Changing a language pun or a foreign joke is understandable, taking liberties with anything more than that is bullshit.

>game creator wants his game to be unchanged
>literally the guy who made it
>random aspie shows up
>A-A-ATHCHUALLY.....

but both sidequests sound equally inane

>man, he sure was a funny guy huh?
>he's wearing a cat on his head
Go for it champ
Show everyone how smart you are

>You can either get stab or shot.
Neither.
>Ugh you fucking fence-sitter, getting shot is the better choice !

>They get paid to NOT translate or translate badly or just rewrite

I know some Japanese, maybe I should go work for them and fail to be a proper translator too since since providing actual, decent translation doesn't even seem to be a proper prerequisite of the job.

>there is absolutely no middle ground between "DO NOT WANT" and "Oh shizzle, my nizzle, that ain't no good!" when it comes to translating a game
Every
fucking
time

>Both sentences work but not for the same purpose.
I don't think the first one works at all. It takes one second to realise "fate" and "destiny" are synonyms and then it just sounds stupid instead of cryptic. Saying "fate" twice could work, depending on the intonation of the voice actor, but using synonyms just makes people wonder not about the meaning behind the sentence, but why you used those two words.

The panty theft was critical to the main character's development and suddenly the story makes no sense when he's tipping fedoras instead.

Spouting memes and pop culture references is not creative.

Thanks for letting everyone know you got it.

God eater 2 localization redubs a whole song from Japanese to English

its actually better then the original


honestly the localization of god eater is pretty good and sticks with the messages that the original gives, apart from a few casting problems that are hard to fit into the current english world, I'd say god eater's new localization is pretty top notch

Literal / direct translations are not the same as a transliteration. This is nothing more than a meme that the liberal fucks who rewrite everything constantly push in order to discredit the idea of a literal translation.

Ace Attorney

Maybe the translators are taking revenge for the horrifying pronounciation of french food names that pop up in anime all the time

That's not what he means by "my game" you tit. He's speaking as a consumer.

Translations should be on point, if there is something that doesn't translate well, or loses meaning translated, like jokes, you need to be creative.

But for these fucks "creative" means completely changing text and dialogue because they don't like it or just shoving memes for the sake of shoving memes.

Not that he ever actually made a game, did he?

Goddamn liberal Japanese vidya translators, what a plague

Does Bamco do bad localizations?
Dark Souls doesn't have any problems besides a few weird things.
Digimon kept all the questionable smut.
Tales of is pretty decent, there's some memes but they're all in side text at least rather then being in the critical path.

Why would you expect God Eater to be bad?
It's not like Bamco is NISA or anything.

Yes
Always
Weebs are just mad because they think they're missing some intrinsic message when they're not

Is changing a character's age good or bad localisation?

Fuck, he'd change up Shakespeare plays if he didn't know better. Dumbass.

This. Half the appeal of experiencing media from a different culture is seeing how that culture is different to your own and learning about those differences. Fuck all the dipshits working in the industry who want to homogenise everything and take the Japan out of Japanese games.

>I don't know what context means

Here's a hint.
>the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

Read it again, Also www.google.com

No. Translate as best as you can. If you can't, edit it ever so slightly so it makes sense, although that should be very rarely.

...

Bad.
The coming of age shit and growing to maturity is often a part of the story and makes no fucking sense when the hero is 21 years old but also still too young to drink(?)

What a surprise, a Cred Forumsirgin doesn't know what he's talking about but finds a way to make it about liberals anyway

it honestly surprised me with the dub song

that amazed and left me thrusting for more

Fuck off, Woolsey is a glorified rewriter and a control freak.

The term "liberal" here had nothing to do with politics, retard.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
youtube.com/watch?v=B5EW6fq07_c

>Translate as best as you can.
That's what he's doing.

>either scrap it or keep it with some form of TL note,
TL notes are awful and should never be present in a commercially available product

>such as a japanese play on words which doesn't make any sense in english
This isn't localisation, this is just basic translation.

if he wants to play the original game unchanged, he should just learn moon
or, you know, play good games instead

Isn't 9volt that dude who got involved in doxxing some chick on twitter?

I was reading "Fate" and "Destiny" to be two variables you can identify orally.

e.g. your fate is death, your destiny is . To prevent death, find the .
Whereas if you used fate twice you'd wind up with
fate = death || and that gets confusing.

Of course it would have to be proceeded with appropiate dialogue or time traveling 4th wall knowledge.

Good.
Otherwise those games would never come to the West. Just check any loli thread where people get uncomfortable by the idea of underage kids in vidya.

>Left me thrusting for more

What if it's the other way around? You have an 18-year old protagonist who's too young to drink in America, but now you take him outside America?

>the latest game has a case about a Rakugo for example.
At this point I feel like the writing team is intentionally trying to piss off the localisation team.

He's kinda right. Some things just don't translate well from one language to another and should be changed. This is basic localization, and what it actually means. Now where Kern is right, and what localization is not, is when American and Europeans gut games, removing scenes and content, because they're personally offended by it. Localizers who also shove memes into dialog and date the translation by trying to connect to pop culture are awful as well.

...

...

>The term "liberal" here had nothing to do with politics, retard.
You're not fooling anyone.

I mean really though, I expect that from Bamco.

ToV Japanese:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ve4LqfqpdSE

ToV English:
youtube.com/watch?v=IW98Ty3JXpA

They usually do fine.

Technically right in that direct translations nearly never work and creativity is needed.

Wrong in spirit in that he probably means "let me rewrite the entire game"

"Wolf in sheep's clothing" would be a close localisation that even keeps the animal reference in for the idiom.
Or we could just be boring and translate the meaning as is.

Bamco sometimes outsources translations to some SEA monkeys.
That's really their only down.

Oh, and the fact that they're very picky about what titles they're gonna actually translate.

>HE'S MADE OF RUBBER HOW DID THAT HAPPEN YO HO HO HE TOOK A BITE OF GUM GUM
is greater than
>Just you wait elite four. The greatest Pokeamon trainer, that is me.

japense are not so good at the talky talky

...

>context is a be-all-end-all win state that applies perfectly to absolutely everything
Kek okay dude

>there's a guy who acts funny and friendly to two other guys
>the two are later talking about him
>one guy is happy and talking about how funny he was
>the other is stern and tells the first that he was wearing a cat on his head
Need any more backstory my dude?

Alright, I suppose a context could be imagined for any sentence in which it fits.

youtube.com/watch?v=KlwVBKs5T_E

Western ratings board will never rate a game that has a 14 year old girl that every male character clearly wants to fuck, so it's not a matter of whether it's good or bad, it's just a thing that has to happen no matter what.

Or let's make this racist thing into a even more racist thing.

He might not have been American, user
In Britain, the only 'liberals' in politics are the Liberal Democrats and not even the politicians care about them

>writing a fictitious story about natural things which occur in the real world is bad
Whoa America.

GEICO GEICO GEICO HO HO

>Those rare examples of a translation making a game better than it was in its original language
FFXII, Vagrant Story, Tactics Ogre: LUCT, a few others. Those games really benefited from the language transition. Funnily enough, those three games were translated by the same guy.

the "translators" who work in the video games industry nowadays are no better than ptsd triggered sjw lgbt transracial degenerates like Sarkeesian and Briana Wu and Zoey Quinn because those nu-males and feminazi mentally ill shitheads go batshit once they are in the position to alter things aka get some power in an otherwise worthless life.

The english One Piece intro is the worst thing to ever happen in the history of man

...

> Some things just don't translate well from one language to another and should be changed
Just because they don't work doesn't mean you have to change them. There are alternatives.

Depends on the situation. So long as the actual meaning can get across, you should leave it more or less the same. However, if it's something cultural that makes no sense outside of it's country of origin, I see no real problem changing it to something similar and more understandable.
I quite enjoyed the Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt dub for this. A lot of the jokes in the original were just based of them trying to speak english and telling puns with it, so they replaced all those jokes in the dub so it would make more sense.

God Eater's localisation was pure sex, they put so much effort in, even fully dubbing each of the 40-something voices for the main character.

With much older games from years ago, I agree with you, But with modern localisations like Fire Emblem Fates, no, rewrites are cancer.

Entire characters were rewritten, the gentle giant was turned into a dudebro, the playful flirt was turned into an actual lesbian (but only halfway because the IS straight, they could rewrite the dialogue but not game mechanics), and worst of all, the guy that likes wearing dresses got turned into a literal medieval SJW.

Yes. Translation HAS to be creative because basically nothing carries over between distant languages. Just off the top of my head, here are some good creative localizations:
The Hellmonts from Castlevania were called something like Shimon in japanese, a pun on Simon, but that pun flies past a western audience
Everyone remembers those spells from Harry Potter eg "Wingardium Leviosa" and that bullshit, because they're a cute mix of English with weird word endings. Well the Hindi translation of Harry Potter couldn't use that kind of thing, so instead magic spells were translated into Sanskrit, would would keep them vaguely recognizable to a Hindu audience in the same way you think "oh yeah, wing and levitate, that one"

There are a lot of times when you HAVE to get creative, because the original reference or the original joke would fall flat, and in those times yes you sometimes have ot make up a completely new joke or reference to fit. Fans who never understood the original language to begin with should stop whining about this.

You two have absolutely no clue what "people die when they're killed" was supposed to be getting at.

only for Nintendo, really

I was talking about grammar, mostly.

I don't believe that any of these translators got into this job to "fix" problematic Japanese games.
That sounds like way too much effort.

What I actually believe is that some suit in marketing is telling them to make these changes and they justify it to themselves by saying that they are cleaning the game up.
I bet deep in their heart they know exactly what they are doing.
Fucking sellouts with zero integrity.

Almost no one is complaining about this though, literally everyone on this thread is agreeing. Everyone is complaining about removed content or rewritten content.

Yes. Translator's job should be to convey the original meanings/messages/vibes of the original work to the best of their ability. The only creativity that should be involved is coming up WITH the way that best communicates the original message or vibe.

e.g. Japanese phrase "社会人”, which translated literally is "society person"

A translator or localiser could turn it into:

> socially integrated person
> contributor to society
> social contributor

Any of these work and play into the nuances of the phrase, though it would be impossible to address all the nuances of the phrase in a brief fashion. Thats where creativity MAY come in.

Nigga you dumb. Puns never translate.
Interpreters aren't the same as translators. You may as well step in and say "I'm a farmer, so I know better how to cook than this talented chef." No one cares about your job, you're not needed in this conversation.

Nigga it might not be possible to translate 100% but you still come as close as possible.
Taking your own liberties spits in the face of the creators.

>just include a fuckhuge glossary for all the terms that don't translate
You can't seriously claim that makes for a reasonable translation, can you?

>implying removing blatant lolicon pandering is a bad thing

degenerates pedos should be gassed, so i fully support anybody trying to "clean up" those games

>How do you know it will not sell well?
Market research. Next question.

Those are very hard to do and require a lot of work and creativity and even then people will still complain that it's not a one of one word translation of the original.

A translation is inherently censorship.

Well that sounds like some form of contradictory behavior. With enough exposure the true meaning could be found out.

It could be like said maybe "Wolf in sheep's clothing" works fine, too, and it's acceptable, but maybe the character who said that is a person who relentless uses cat puns and that is a pillar of his character, and writing it off with "Wolf in sheep's clothing" makes him lose his personality.

If that was the case then I'd say stick with catheads and let people figure it out (or ask someone?).

Better than saying something that is totally unrelated to the raw just because reasons.

If Great Ace Attorney ever gets localized, I wonder how they're going to explain Meiji period America

Creativity is definitely a necessity, but all that creativity is needed for find a way to preserve the original message. Ideally, by working with the original creator, as well.

There's always going to be terms that don't translate directly.

translation is supposed to reproduce something equivalent to the original in another language as good as possible. If it was a japenese pun you make an english pun etc. You should never change intent etc. but sometimes you have to be creative. Ideally the translator can work together with the original author for tricky things like this.

Yes. I enjoyed the way Steins;Gate handled it. It was not only used for all the references but also all the sciency stuff that people might not know about. This assures that the reader has the least amount of knowledge to understand what is being said.

It's a double edged sword. I'm sure some guys working on Panty Quest VII want to do a good job but the higher ups keep telling them to censor shit so they don't get an AO rating.
Yet we also see these faggots spouting shit on twitter that they're making the game better, when they should know damn well people are only buying this game for panties, not the DEEP EMOTIONAL rewritten script they're writing.

There's a difference in coming up with a similar pun and butchering dialogue that kills character development.

Puns don't develop characters unless that's their schtick in which case nothing of value was lost. Puns are the lowest form of comedy.

The problem is that when arguing about localization, they bring out very reasonable examples of dashes of creative liberty improving the translation. However, whenever they actually go and translate, they instead change things arbitrarily or for political reasons and inject memes where they don't belong. So right now, even the idea of small creative liberties put people off because of the dishonest ways game localizers have used the argument.

Isn't it basically just "working adult"?

In Persona 5 a character speaks by reversing the syllables on words sometimes. I.e. instead of saying 'senpai' they say 'paisen'

What is the proper way to translate this manner of speaking?

They are both right. But only the translator is wrong.
The easiest way to see how this should go is looking at anime. Some translations are worse than others. for the most part subtitles are direct translations and it works somewhat well. but if you use english subtitles on the dub its usually off. but the same message. this is the most of what they should go for. If the entire conversation changes then "creative" is just a bullshit excuse. You are a translator. your job is to copy an existing product

I honestly want GAA localised JUST to see how they explain Meiji America and traditional American katana and traditional American yukatas.

It's not like anyone is forcing you to play loli pantsu effect 3: kitchen of duty. Maybe you aren't the target audience.

...

9volt wouldn't know, his entire collection is shitty western AAA games.

That character now speaks by repeating the first syllable of a word sometimes.

If this is your way to "trick" people who don't want to blindly commit to YOUR cause, you're going to have to try a little bit harder.

Well there is a new translation of this coming out and the translators really went above and beyond for this.

The Japanese stuff seemed a bit too weird to western audiences, so its now place in a nondescript Asian country with a lot of things changed to make us understand it better and relate easier. Its also less shockingly offensive, I mean those women roles are so outdated.

I chimed in, since part of my job description does include translating documents, movies, letter conversations and so on, it's just that 99% of the time I'm working face-to-face.

I had nothing else to add anyway.

Keep sempai. If you are playing P5 you know what it means. people who havent even played it know what sempai means or have herd of it

>not actively supporting the culling of weeaboo degeneracy

have fun actively contributing to the fall of society, dumb liberalposter

As of AA6, isn't the Fey clan immigrants from Not Tibet? So why not just make Phoenix Japanese-American?

I still respect Cred Forums to some degree because at least 3/4 of this thread agrees that the game creator's intent is more important than anything.

This means that you're arguing for creative continuity.

This means that most of you believe that the creator's intention is more important than the availability it is to audiences at large.

You're all artsy fags and you just don't know it. Proud of you Cred Forums.

It's the latter. Henry's personality was completely changed in the localisation from a sardonic cynic to an airheaded optimist. 8-4 generally just fucked up every character's supports, Maribelle's in particular.
four-loose-screws.tumblr.com/post/55679094244/fire-emblem-localization-vs-original

Also compare the massive album of NoA's fuckups with Fates, comparing a faithful translation to the localisation and explanations of how the shit translation impacts the characterisation.
imgur.com/a/X2w49

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoonerism

Nice hot dogs

>getting this mad

>Please don't change the messages of games
>YOU CAN'T DO DIRECT TRANSLATIONS
Not at all what he said.

Changing "Dattebayo!" into something else is necessary, changing "I'm impressed" into "YOU GO GURL!" or long, drawn out conversations into "..." "..." "..." "..." is retarded.
Pretty simple.

That's a tough cookie because japs operate on syllables rather than letters, so even reversed words usually roll off the tongue rather well.

If the reversing has some actual relevance, bite the bullet and reverse english words as well. If it's just there as a generic quirk, invent some unobtrusive language mannerism and stick with it.

There literally is no reason not to do this. Especially considering most of the game takes place in fucking England anyway

SENPAI

S E N P A I

For fucks sake if you're going to say it this much at least get it right.

Hello, everyone! My name is Dragon Isee, and with my assistant Evening Village (who loves burgers and who I met after her sister, Thousandfathoms Village, was killed), I investigate crimes and defend clients as a defense attorney! My rival is the prosecutor Clever Swordedge, who I was in primary school with (together with my first client, Youknow Forsure). He was mentored by Fromhell Demon, a famous prosecutor (who is now gone, but his legacy continues with his daughter, Dark Demon).

These days I've taken proteges myself, like Surprise Lawboy and Moon Heartnoise, and adopted a daughter, Seethrough. Life is swell here in Japanifornia.

>If that was the case then I'd say stick with catheads and let people figure it out (or ask someone?).
Imagine you have a boss who pays your wages - do you think the average person wants to actually have to go through that? Do your boss would be okay with you deliberately frustrating them like that?
It's not like there isn't more than one way to say, 'He's just lying through his teeth' or 'He's just pretending to be nice'. Hell, even if he was just a cat pun dude, there's a way to make the same statement in English using cat puns - 'This cat's just hiding his claws', which is essentially the actual meaning of the original phrase. Taking the literal translation doesn't always add anything of value

Shouldn't the translator just have to keep a changelog of things altered, with direct translations having no note and colloquialisms or culture edits having to be signed off on?

DRYING PAN

yes, localisation is required. But it means for every country, not having American amke the game "ok for american" then shit that garbage all over europe and South america. Because no matter how hard you wish, USA isn't the standard and will never be.

Didn't he get fired?

>Puns never translate.
Eh I remember when I played Pokemon the chick at the aquarium says something like "水族館へようこそ。今日は皆が水々しい!" I forget exactly but close to that, and I was curious enough to check the same line in English. She says "Welcome to the aquarium, your interest marines so much to us."

Unfortunately the extremely liberal translators want to conflate that creativity with their own significant rewrites and changes they impose based on their moral standards, and they portray anything less meme-filled as a dictionary replacement incomprehensible mess.

>hurr durr how dare you complain about me shitting up the board just ignore it!
I mean, in the end I agree with you and think that poster is a reddit refugee that needs to get the fuck off Cred Forums, but that argument has always been retarded.

woah, look at this translator student drop out
he got to a modulation chapter and left the uni?
there is plenty of translation theory after that chapter

Die Zwei is the best translation of a movie or tv show in history.

It was so good, the translation actually got retranslated into English where it was more succesful than the original.

Well that's the point, isn't it?

It's when people don't do that then claim some sort of phony professional integrity for their abomination and acting all uppity when people tell them off for it.

target audience but also many animes will bring up an annotation explaining anything beyond semi universal humor

I can't even tell what point you're trying to make here

>Equating politics to a fence

Are you autistic?

>Surprise Lawboy
You best not be joking, user.
Is that seriously Apollo's name in Japanese?

>foreign puns and pop culture?
yeah, this is not a thing anymore in 9 cases out of 10

sorry dude dyslexic and early, didnt notice.
Calm the fuck down

No and he's being intentionally obtuse. The guy never asked for a direct translation. Obviously, shit like translating entire lines as "..." is the kind of "creativity" he's talking about.

No, it's fun.

If they're still getting paid then clearly the publisher likes what they're doing.
You can either learn Japanese to become a translator, or learn Japanese and import all your games, but if the publisher likes how they're doing their job then your whining won't change it.

It's a sad state of affairs to be sure.

More than anything it just shows a failure to grasp JP or worse yet the ability to express properly in their own native language.

It's almost as if they've never played a proper RPG or read a book in their whole damn lives.

English is one of the most overly descriptive languages there are. We've got an extensive toolset to say literally (and I mean literally) anything that could possibly be conveyed. How in the blue hell can you fuck something up outside of ignorance or idiocy?

Exactly. Go watch Kinnikuman and notice how many times it has to explain that the humor comes from a pun of the name of some 80s Japanese baseball player and shit like that.

He's being factitious. Senpai and sempai are both the same and either one is fine.
Anyone who really cares wouldn't be typing in Romanji anyway.

Literally translating stuff is fucking stupid.

I'm just fucking with you user. IDGAF.

Why do people treat this shit as a binary choice? If you have a right wing view on gun control, why does it mean you must also have a right wing view on abortion?

Things that are okay to do in a translation

>rewriting puns or references
>making certain lines read better

Things that are not okay in a translation

>adding memes
>completely rewriting characters personalities and backstories
>inserting dialogue that was never in the original script
>honorifics

But what is the alternative? Change that reference to Barry Bonds? Or just explain it and get some insight into another culture?

There's a specific type of slang in French that work exactly like that, by switching syllables in every word. Maybe there's a similar kind of argot in english that can be used?
is a sound proposition.

They do it on purpose, of course. They think they can make it better. I mean, fuck respecting the original work, right? This scene would be way funnier if Maribelle called Vaike a filthy gutter rat. Sure, it's totally out of character, but it's hilarious!

>muh different cultures
This some jelly donuts tier shit. Can't these people realize that maybe, just maybe, if I'm buying Japanese pop culture that means I'm into Japanese pop culture and don't want it to be removed from the game? Why the fuck are these SJW type shitters always going on about multiculturalism and then they remove shit from games because "it's a different culture, we can't let people experience it!"?

There's nothing wrong with honorifics in the text in a game which takes place in Japanese.
Honorifics in an English dub sounds fucking retarded though.

I most cases yes, I would like it to be as close to the original material as possible but i understand that some jokes or phrases might not have the same meaning. In cases like this i think changing it is alriggt but the problem localization teams make is they take the easy way out and throw a meme in there which not only is lazy and horribly unfunny, instantly makes the game seem dated. The whole crap with that zelda game doing that doge shit is a great example, in europe their team whent with a more direct translation and it fit perfectly fine whereas the NA memelords had to put doge because they are so shit at writing and unfunny they couldn't think of anything.

>honorifics
if style is consistent in whole translation piece then it's okay, read some jpn lit it works there

These threads are always so funny. All these kids who have never had a job of any kind telling people who have worked in a field for years how to do their job. Classic.

What the fuck do you care how people act? Arts and English students will always be fucking brats

I'm talking about the quality of a script regarding the difference between literal and and paraphrasing translations, I don't give a shit about the people behind them

>translations ALWAYS need to be literal, just let people pause the game mid-sentence to work out what they're saying
>but that's shit from just about every conceivable for people
>yeah but I dont like people who act like whiney bitches
Stop being such a fucking baby, dude

To be fair names that are actual words make way more sense in nip

Unless the subject material is very Japanese, like Yakuza or WotS, I say just change the joke, yeah.

I find localization to be outdated. Don't worry about people not getting something, the internet is available they can look it up, I know I did when I didn't understand something. Countries aren't isolated from other cultures now thanks to the internet.

The user who said that puns translate perfectly sure wasn't agreeing.

Should localization teams be allowed to cover some naughty bits in a game to ensure it has a lower ESRB rating?

>Japanese work
>Translator changes "Oi!" into "Hey!"
>Translator changes "Eh?" into "What?"

These are already English words. We use them in English and they share the exact same meaning that they have in Japan. There is no need to translate them. So why do people keep doing it?

Yeah, immersion is more important. That's what the memes are for.

How about
>Two sub translations
>one is accurate to the original and defaulted with jap audio
>other is localised better and defaulted with the english audio

court-records.net/chara-apollo.htm

>>inserting dialogue that was never in the original script
>>honorifics
The problem is that you often need to do one of these two things to make it lose context.

Also inserting dialogue can be acceptable to explain references that couldn't be translated.

I guess at the end of the day you can't really blame the people doing the translations. You can only blame the people who read it and say "Yeah this will work, ship it" instead of bludgeoning them to death and hiring someone else.

This shit gets reviewed. Someone else reads it and says "GREAT WORK TERRY! THAT SURE WAS A FUNNY ONE LINER! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK".

Either that or someone is sucking some major D to keep their job.

...

I have translator certification, wanna argue about translation theory?

You had nothing to add to begin with.

What does a lower ESRB rating achieve?
The most successful game in recent history is GTA V - (18 includes but not limited to sex, nudity, murder, theft, destruction of property, voyeurism, torture of innocent minorities, mutilation, kidnapping and use of many illegal drugs)

>sjws are behind this despite it being the opposite of what an sjw would do
Reddit get out

>That first yellow part
I'm studying translation and that was very smart, i am always amazed when i see those kind of examples in class.

Yeah you're right. All these people who have had 20+ years of gaming suddenly noticing an extreme lack of product control sure is hilarious.

Obviously consumers of something for over two decades wouldn't notice when their favorite hobby goes to shit right?

Stupid shitlords.

Unless you're australian, using oi with any regularity just sounds weird.

I dont remember this. Are you fucking with me or did i really block it out that hard?

Australians should be awake at this hour so

The only thing I can think of is "Oi" or "Eh" sounding like a dialect from something along the lines of australia or britbongland.

But even then nothing is really lost because we know how they speak so... really no reason to be honest.

irish, scots and brits say it all the time as far as I know

>What does a lower ESRB rating achieve?
Maintains a certain image of a company. If, say, a Nintendo game had "sex, nudity, murder, theft" on the box, it would make headlines in every internet tabloid around.

...

This cant be real, i refuse to believe this was approved

its used in zelda and i never thought about it. unless it was on TV it wouldnt sound weird

of course, i love it when localization teams inject their personal politics into japanese works that had nothing to do with them.

emotional connotation is lost, you know the second most important aspect of language after cognitive

Yes and no.

Localization, good localization anyway, walk a very thin line. If you're too literal you're doing some "keikaku means plan" their fuckery and you may as well not be translating at all, but if you're too loose you're basically rewriting the script to be whatever you want.

What matters most is the content of a sentence and the context of everything said within it, not the exact words. But you absolutely can not change the content or context when translating something across languages because if you do you're no longer doing a translation.

The japanese "Eee?" clearly does not share the meaning of the english interjection "Eh?". It is highly dependant on context and can alternatively mean "Yes", "No", "What", "I see" or any number of things, while "Eh" in english is no more than a rarely used interjection used to express surprise or disbelief. Go watch any japanese drama, I guarantee you will hear more "Eeee?" than you ever did in your whole life.

that doesn't matter, even stupid americans can deduce what a character means when they say oi or eh

>image
Yes. Let's hypothetically assume Nintendo has a game with sex all over the box.
What then?

Except you can blame the people doing the translations because they are the ones doing it.

It makes no sense that you can't blame them.
They are playing a direct part in fucking it.

American games are full of American culture that isn't scrubbed, so why do we pretend that Japanese culture is this completely unapproachable enigma? As an Argentine, I was confused as fuck by a few episodes of Dexter, but I still managed to look some things up to figure it out. Clearly, they didn't think that it was that big of a deal if they left all of that in.

On the other hand, direct translations of jokes from asian languages are difficult because of how different their way of writing/speaking is. For example, most of the Pokemon names sound really weird if you put them straight into English, like tsubotsubo being both the word for pot and the end of the word for barnacle, which doesn't work in English.

This shit is repugnant. Please tell me it's fake. Just so I can sleep at night.

Memes are not culturally relevant in everything we do. They belong on the internet and only on the internet. The second they pop up on anything else it turns to shit.

Are we posting BURN gifs now

Morgana doesn't "reverse syllables" at random, they're proper words
It's like saying cop instead of police officer
It's not a verbal tic

Localized Ace Attorney calls Japan the "Old Country", so they just need to call it that.

What if the memes are integrated in a way that only those in the know will understand them?

Where have you guys been? It's Triforce Heroes, the game has different American and European translations, and this particular line got a lot of attention after I first made and posted that image.
legendsoflocalization.com/the-latest-zelda-game-is-such-doge/

SJWs are always the ones wanting to scrub asian games of things they find inappropriate, like Blade and Soul.

it's real

>If you're too literal you're doing some "keikaku means plan" their fuckery
If the only example of the problems of literal translation that you can come up with is a dumb meme, doesn't that mean literal translations are fine?

He's talking about Futaba.

HA HA
LOCALIZACIÓN

One please

Made for Nintendo systems.

Not made by Nintendo.

Huge difference.

>making up hypothetical scenarios and getting angry about them

I do blame them, I was being facetious. Thought the bludgeoning them death part got that through.

I was trying to express how fucked up it is that not only do they have a hand in it but play testers and quality control as well as whoever the fuck above them would have to look at it and actually go "lol keep it".

Like, there's layers to the fuckitude going on here. Way too many layers.

>As an Argentine

"Oi" is dumb Brit/Aussie
"Eh" is Canadian
These people do not count when localizing things into English, thus, their silly phrases are changed to correct English.

Nigger, what? How could "eh" possibly mean any of those things? Are you confusing it with hai?

he doesn't know many languages it seems, everything can be translated
humans globalized thousands years ago no new concepts everything is too common
very rare cases that do not need translation because world already knows about them as they are

example katana - everyone knows what that is

Pretty sure when I was reading Don Quixote, the translator didn't put 21st century English references in place of the ones in the book

I don't know who at Nintendo started to color certain words but it's fucking great

It's okay user sometimes I talk about things I know nothing about too.

I've been here user, basically wasting my life away every day like the rest of you. Guess I just didn't click that thread. This is fucking horrendous.

>American talking about correct English

I posted a dumb meme because it was probably the most well known example of what I meant. I could post dozens of TV-Nihon related screenshots of what I mean for "not even translating"-tier failures but really I'd consider anything even as simple as leaving in honorifics to be on that level since they're at best forcing you to read translator's notes that don't need to be there and at worst are forcing you to look it up online and basically learn the language yourself (which goes against the entire point of translating something to begin with.)

>Years of gaming
>Counting as experience in anything
Haha, good one, user. I got a good laugh out of that. You should tell that one at your next Otaku Club meeting at school, it will get you mad pussy.

Love you too, m8

>I-If people don't understand every single reference they will DIE!!!!
>It's much better to change the artistic vision for the sake of gettin' people to laugh at my OC joke

Just fuck off, leave the references as is, boohoo someone didn't get it, they will research it if they care or move on if they don't.

butthurt middleground reddit cucks

...

youtube.com/watch?v=tEXurYaIHao

The left feels like your classic old JRPG shitty writing. Can it be that the Japanese writing wasn't as cringy as it seemed and it was just a fault of bunch of retarded translators?

I used to be against localization until i see what they did to Fire Emblem Fates

>TFW lolis with 18 yo

>Published
>Produced
This means they funded it, not created it themselves.

Try again.

Do you think people get mad at Disney for movies Touchstone studios released?

Give it a few months and you'll stop hearing about it.

I bet 90% of players didn't realize the GBA version was filled to the brim with internet memes because they were used in a way that didn't feel out of place to those uninformed.

I'm under the impression that most anime subs are more or less direct, perhaps dropping redundancies not present in English

As far as i know, the subbed cowboy bebop and the dubbed have the same characters and story. So fuck your creativity

wheredoyouthinkyouare.tiff

What if I just want to read a nippon reference that I can not understand but instead get joy from looking it up?

they gotta fix that problematic shit man

Look at these mad virgins

...

Hai is literally just a formal affirmative response. Depending on the inflection, eh could mean a dozen different things. I guess a more direct equivalent would be "un", but that's really only used in speech.

Damn, he got right to the point.

Please tell me how you'd directly translate カモネギ. The obvious part about it being a mixture of duck and onion would be fine, but what about the fact it's an abbreviation of the proverb 鴨が葱をしょって来る? Most westerners have probably never heard it and none of those words sound like duck or onion in English.

Granted, I'm not exactly happy with the English translations of a lot of Pokemon shit as it is.

Are you still too retarded to not know the difference between publishing and developing? I'm sure Inaba will be happy to know that it was actually Nintendo making his game.

>I could post dozens of TV-Nihon related screenshots of what I mean for "not even translating"-tier failures
Please do

> I'd consider anything even as simple as leaving in honorifics to be on that level since they're at best forcing you to read translator's notes that don't need to be there and at worst are forcing you to look it up online and basically learn the language yourself (which goes against the entire point of translating something to begin with.)
Remember when there was a TL note in the Godfather movie explaining what the "Don" in Don Corleone meant? Yeah, me neither, because film is still respected as an artistic medium, while video games get stuck with 4kids tier "creative localizers" who want to save our children from the horrors of foreign culture. Why remove honorifics from a Japanese game? At best you lose information, at worst there's a scene where characters actually mention the honorifics (or they're relevant in some way, whatever) and at that point every liberal localization completely shits the bed as it struggles to improvise some bullshit replacement for the forbidden honorifics.

What an absolute fucking faggot.

I think Bamco translated/published Project X Zone 2. That games localization was fucking good

They are directly involved in the creation of that game and making it exclusive to their shit.
Compared to something like Senran Kagura which is just accidentally an exclusive on their shit, they had nothing to do with the latter.

And no, I don't expect anyone would get mad.
Why would anyone get mad that someone made a harmless video game?
Your belief that image is important is stupid.
People have shorter memories than you can believe, if someone doesn't like this one Nintendo game because of a boob they'll be mad for maybe ten minutes then never think about it again.

sure, assuming the word "creative" to him doesn't mean "memeify"

>Hai is literally just a formal affirmative response. Depending on the inflection, eh could mean a dozen different things
How completely fucking backwards.

mad virgin detected

FUCK THIS SHIT MAKES ME MAD

There's plenty of pokemon names that really had to be changed for English, namely most of the stuff that uses Engrish loan words. They added some really dumb shit like uno dos tres though.

Wait, how do they translate English sayings like "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" in Japanese translations? Is it like how they tell you Mei Ling's proverbs in Metal Gear in Chinese and people have no idea what it means?

I never understood why they changed the food in the Pokemon anime. I mean, it takes place in this fantastic world full of strange creatures, but they can't have kids being introduced to food that's unfamiliar to them? Kids who know what a riceball is will go "okay, I know what that is", and kids who don't will go "This must be some bizarre food exclusive to the pokemon world"; even as a small child I knew something was fucky when they called those rice balls "Jelly Donuts"

I'm glad the Monster Rancher anime didn't change this guy into "Hamburger", or some shit.

i think people are missing the point heavily here

i'm sure everyone is aware that a direct word-for-word translation would be basically unreadable, but what people are arguing against is changing the essence of what's been written. for example, treehouse changing a full fire emblem support conversation with some backstory stuff to two lines of "..." is an example of going way, way too far.

acceptable:
>phrase sounds janky when translated into english
>change the wording so it conveys the same message or idea but sounds like something someone would actually say

unacceptable:
>translator didn't like something
>changes the lines to something completely unrelated

i mean the difference between these two things is obvious

Are you telling me you dont enjoy dank memes and replacing Onigiri with Hamburgers ?

Every fucking day. Every single fucking day when i come home this little faggot just sits there and gives me this stupid look on his face.

>namely most of the stuff that uses Engrish loan words
I actually like Spear more than Beedrill. Thunder and Thunders is stupid, though.

oh come on, everyone knows that japanese phrases about respecting those older than you directly translate into the phrase "dumbass gamergate creepshows"

>Dont know a lot of nip references
>When translated properly along with the context of the scene I generally understand them though

I hope these translators lose their jobs

Not at all. Think of how you could use "un". Stretch it out, it becomes something like "hmm", go up in tone at the end, and it becomes a more positive approval. It can be doubting, inquisitive, and it's all about tone.

Where the fuck did Ash get a stampede of Tauros anyway?

To be fair the term "Don" is very intertwined with American culture anyway.
You don't need a TL note for "Hasta la Vista" because gratuitous Spanish is something that is just sorta part of American society.

Pokemon should not get as much scrutiny in this case because it was basically aimed at children. Children can barely speak their own language, much less remember 150 names in a different one.

That kind of "localization" shouldn't be applied to things aimed at adults.

Who does he work for?

Isn't that Mark Kern guy some SJW? I recall seeing that dumb avatar before together with some pretty fucking idiotic comment about Japanese stuff.

If so he's being quite the hypocrite considering SJWs have managed to bully/take over localization teams so they can censor what they don't like in the original script like this gigantic faggot

TL note: "Ninja" means "Professional hiding man"

>To be fair the term "Don" is very intertwined with American culture anyway.
Not before the movie came out.

The Safari Zone, they cut that episode from the dub because it had guns pointed at people.
If 4kids were a company today, I'm sure Cred Forums would defend their practices.
>"Jelly filled doughnuts!"
>"Wow you fucking weaboos calm down, they just localized it so kids would have something to relate to!"

>"I'LL SEND THEM TO THE SHADOW REALM!"
>Why can't you dumb neckbeards understand that the average child has no concept of death whatsoever and can't handle knowing such a thing?

>All background scenery remotely resembling religious imagery is removed
>"Dumb lard asses why should kids be indoctrinated by religion at a young age?"

>No blood/Smoking/Rifles to water guns/Swords to hammers
>"So what? At least the original story is still intact dumbfucks stop whining over pointless shit."

>Characters are ruined along with story
>"Who watches shounen for the story? All I care about are the fights you AUTIST!"

Whatever you do don't let the weebs localize your shit.

EAT YOUR HAMBURGERS APOLLO

If this is his linked in, then I think he did get fired.
linkedin.com/in/benspants

You do realise every language has proverbs, right? You've got shit like "fall 7 times, get up 8" in Japanese which means "it doesn't matter if you fail, what matters is what you do after".

He's right. Translators usually talk with the creators to convey a similar or equivalent meaning without coming off as awkward. It's why Nier's English script was god-tier.

>not being against abortion

....Seriously?

He is not an SJW, he wont shut up about gamergate all day for starters.

It's true. We are the keepers of the true English language. We don't butcher it like those silly Englishmen, what with their unnecessary 'u's and additional syllables in words like aluminum.

To be fair, when I was a child I couldn't possibly understand the notion of rice, formed into an edible ball.
That shit is bananas, how would anyone figure it out?

you translate the meaning of the idiom or find something similar. the meaning in this case is its better to have something than be greedy and have nothing. however considering Americans dont even get american idioms and just like to say them its usless trying to translate

There have been well known Dons in America long before Godfather ever came out

>I should completely change the source material because it personally offends me
Imagine if these people """localized""" something like Huckleberry Finn

Yeah, sure, that applies to un. But that doesn't apply to eh at all, it has a pretty specific meaning as a questioning response. And hai, despite the seemingly rigid meaning, has many interpretations, particularly in being used sarcastically based on the tone.

You are very good at ignoring what people say so you can argue against what you wanted them to say.

I guess you could say you keep taking things out of context.

>Shadow realm

Shit. What is it supposed to be, hell instead?

Why would you be against it?

He is right about direct translations. Zero Wing for example is a product of direct translation.

You can still get the point across, but you can rearrange words to make sentences flow better.because all languages have a difference way of speech.

Then I must have remembered wrong. Being vocal supporter of gamergate is almost as bad though.

Most anime and video games are aimed a children anyway, just older ones. Are there any notable Japanese games that are actually for adults on consoles, e.g., have a Cero Z rating rather than just some occasional scary stuff that would go over a teenager's head? Only thing I can think of at the moment is Itagaki Ninja Gaiden.

>Why would anyone get mad that someone made a harmless video game?
Gee I don't know.

Unrelated
ign.com/articles/2009/02/10/editorial-is-resident-evil-5-racist
washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/25/researchers-have-discovered-a-major-problem-with-the-little-mermaid-and-other-disney-movies/

>Ask why anyone would get mad at a game
>Immediately follow up with BUT THEY'LL FORGET ANYWAYS
Okay man

>Story-based game
Closely related to the original language as possible
>Games like Monhon
Really doesn't matter

fuck

They basically did, haven't you heard?

>Translators usually talk with the creators to convey a similar or equivalent meaning without coming off as awkward.
No, this is actually a rarity. It's more common with doujin works than in AAA companies. And Taro had no involvement with the English localisation of Nier, so stop pulling shit out of your arse.

>Characters are ruined along with story
>"Who watches shounen for the story? All I care about are the fights you AUTIST!"

This pisses me off more because shounen fights is literal garbage and there's not a single good battle.

You clearly haven't listened to any Japanese. It's bizarre that you understand that hai can be affected by the tone, in the same way that "sure" can be both affirmative and "oh, sure sure, (whatever)" to brush someone off, but not understand that the same applies to eh.

Death. Anytime someone got "banished to the shadow realm" was the euphemism for "killed".

In the original manga Yugi was straight up killing people himself and barely gave a fuck about it.

I'm not shitting you, it many sound ludicrous for a latin language speaker, but japanese is so dependant on context and tone when it comes to informal speech that even a single syllable like "E" can take a lot of different meanings.

can't remember, before he deleted his tumblr and set his twitter to private, his profile said he's worked on pic related.

...

It already happened.
There's also trigger warning before Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer shit is brought up in classes.

A) older teenagers aren't children, and can easily deal with Japanese names
B) Persona, are you retarded?

>He is right about direct translations. Zero Wing for example is a product of direct translation.
No, dumbass, Zero Wing is the product of a translation into a language that the translators barely understood. Direct translation does not mean "make the kanji English words and don't even try to make it readable or sensible in English".

>Always remember
>"People die, when they are killed"
Remember a line that makes sense when you don't take it out of context like a memespouting retard?

Now, when he says direct translation, he doesn't mean using Japanese grammar in English, right? That would just be silly.

man if I can get the joke by translating it myself then it doesn't need to be fucking changed.

>clickbait articles are clickbaiting
Normal people don't give a fuck user.

He also was the guy who did the video about the WoW Legacy servers if I recall correctly. And yeah, at this point talking about gamergate is fucking annoying.

Yep

No, Zero Wing is a product of incredibly shoddy translation. Rearranging sentences IS direct translation, you're taking the text from one and aiming for the nearest equivalent in the other. Localisation is when you loosen it up so that the text flows like natural language.

My favorite dub scripts are the ones that go off the rails.

None of those games feel that censored to me though. Maybe he was just overstating his importance to feel like some big shot.

You're pulling my leg. Both of them are satires. Why can't people get that through their skulls?

Because it doesn't. Eh is nowhere near as versatile as hai in terms of applying the word in different ways based on tone and context.

>He doesn't know about the edited reprints of Buckleberry Finn that remove all mentions of "nigger"
Totally trivializes the point of the book, honestly.

Uhhhhhh it's very problematic user, what are you a racist?

Rice cakes and snowballs

Seems like he didn't have many chances to censor stuff.

Give examples, buddy

Direct translation isn't what Google spits out, you retard.

Here's a direct translation of that line:
In the world, in this era, come on, you too should RIDE ON!

This, truth is people who translate games are mostly idiots who suck at their job so they have to compensate for their incompetence by claiming that something so simple as translation is literally impossible.

Old translations at least could be blamed on space limitations.

It's harder to translate Japanese than a European language to English, but research and a decent vocabulary can get around that. The biggest issue is losing nuance and punny jokes, but the way it's done currently is ignore all subtlety, change everything and don't even bother maintaining the original meaning, which is far worse than a dry translation.

Welcome to America. Never mind the undertones or proving a point, if your material has something offensive or perverse, it gets axed, no questions asked.

>BlazBlue
The script is full of memes and added fuckery for some fucking reason. I even remember couple of times where the character says few words in japanese but the text box just keeps on filling with some random "funny" shit.

>Normal people don't give a fuck
GTA, Doom and Hot Coffee disagree. This shit literally went to the government where they had discussions about it.
There is still constant discussion on if videogames are bad for people and there's still an assload of people getting mad at videogames having sex and violence.

Normies care, fuck off.

Ducknion. Next?

i think he mainly caused people to get mad by alerting people to the fact that many localizers share his mentality. he was a master baiter, worthy of the name bateman.

They must've been inspired by his summary
>I'm a fire-and-forget sort of worker

This.
Always has, always will. Horseshoe politics at its finest

Localization is tricky.

There's a middle ground that's balanced between making it understandable for foreigners, but sill conveying the original story.

As someone who did translation as a summer job you absolutely have to be creative on some level. The facy is English is the largest language on the planet so a lot of sentences that sound really repatative when translated directly from one language to the other. But beyond the use of synonyms and changing obvious things like jokes based on wordplay you absolutely must try and stick to the source as close as possible.

I never said that older teenagers can't handle Japanese names. I honestly think that children can handle them as well, seeing as how they have to learn every black person's special snowflake name nowadays. Persona may be M rated in the U.S., but it's sitting on a B rating in Japan, as they think the values discussed are appropriate for 10 year olds by their standards.

Happened to the Great Gatsby too.

Students don't even know what a satire is, only the newest hot memes and the kind of things they don't want to hear about or else they get triggered.

Huckleberry Finn was censored in 2011, each instance of nigger was replaced with Slave. Removed from Philadelphia schools entirely in 2015.

>Hot Coffee
Barely anyone cared, just a few loud lawyers and politicians.
Like Hillary Clinton.
What's she doing now? Nothing, I'm sure.
Nope nothing to worry about there.

Jack Thompson got disbarred for being a stupid idiot crybaby about everything.

I'm sure Leland Yee was one of the people speaking against it and he got arrested a year or so ago for illegal arms trafficking (Selling rocket launchers to terrorists).

Those are the people who got mad about GTA.
Crazy God zealots and criminals trying to hide their own filth.

Except you've ignored the pun.

The localisation of "this is a duck carrying around a onion, how farfetched is that?" is a million times better than your retarded shit. It gives up on translating the untranslatable, and instead makes its own joke which works reasonably in western culture.

>Ducknion

>The facy is English is the largest language on the planet
Bravo

>Barely anyone cared
It hit mainstream news, fuck along now.

>replacing nigger with slave
That defeats the entire propose. What did they do to Gatsby?

I don't understand why Westeners hate honorifics so much. Anime and manga translation in my country always keep Japanese honorifics like chan and kun, and replace with our equivalents when they can. It's hard to understand their relationships if you remove them.

The biggest cancer in localization is not translators, it is editors. Editors don't actually speak the language, so they don't even read the original script. Their job is to change shit just to make it read or sound "better", which obviously is a recipe for disaster with no contextual information. In the best case scenario you lose nuance and make some errors, in the worst case you get idiots who think they can change the script because the original isn't good enough for them.

It's not westerners, just memelord "creative translators" who think that translating a video game script means making people think it was made in the US.

What's the MGS4 thing from? An article? Making of?

Aren't most Pokemon designs far fetched? Gen 1 had a fucking fire duck thing, or whatever Magmar is.

>this is a duck carrying around a onion, how farfetched is that
>this is a duck
>carrying around an onion
>duck
>onion
>ducknion

Shit I figured out what that other guy did.
He's smart.

>>Why can't you dumb neckbeards understand that the average child has no concept of death whatsoever and can't handle knowing such a thing?
The Shadow Realm was way worse a punishment than death, it left your body a mindless husk and sent your mind/soul to an endless hell.
And what kind of kid doesn't understand what death is?

If you're implying that emotional connotation can't be expressed in english then you're sorely mistaken. It's just than an "Eh" or an "Oi" would have to be changed into a phrase like "what?!" or "huh?" depending on context.

In the end context is key and english has more than enough phrases to express any connotation JP can come up with.

Majority of students protested in several campuses and they had a large discussion on if trigger warnings is a valid reason to remove material.

Students still aren't backing down.

>It's hard to understand their relationships if you remove them.
It really isn't if the dialogue is translated properly.

Thunder sounds more "legendary" than the dumb ass English names.

オコリザル. Would you translate that as Engry Nonkey?

Different user here. I noticed that, too - I always thought the meaning was kinda obvious, but apparently it's not. That said, maybe I'm not getting it either, so at the risk of making a fool out of myself: it emphasizes the finality of death; as in "if you die, that's it - there's no coming back", "the ultimate price" and so on.

>Implying it's not a leek in the western world
It's a Deek

Localization is the process of raping a creator's work by allowing talentless goons to tamper with it like a product for consumption.

Localization should not exist. It is utterly invalid. You ever hear of a fucking book being "localized"?

It was pretty obvious if you read the name. カモ=wild duck. ネギ = onion

It's a Spring Onion.

The only thing you change are words/ideas around so direct translation that is goofed/doesn't make sense has the seem meaning it did originally. It's no longer a translation once you start imparting different ideas than the original.

Madmonkey

So what's the problem?
I get that Ducknion isn't a word but neither is Kamonegi.

Ducknion is abbreviated in the same way that Kamonegi is.

This, Americans are used to seeing people die and shoot each other anyway. Why is it you could get away with death and shooting in cowboy movies aimed at families, but now it's taboo?

Funny how my country use all Japanese name and never translate them. I found English names to be weird as hell when I was a kid and not good at English.

You have to change shit to translate, right, so it's fine, a long as you don't shove memes or politics or referential humor into it.
If the game has content that offends your sensibilities, suck it up, faggot.
"oh this game is leftist sjw garbage and I'm triggered"
"oh that game is alt-right sexist and racist garbage and I'm triggered"
Fuck off with all that shit.
Don't change content because you don't like it, your job is to find a good way to express the same idea with another language.

Do translations from English into your language have honorifics?

But オコリザル(okorizaru for you EOPs) is supposed to be a misspelling of 怒り猿(ikarisaru, for you EOPs). You would have to change the first letter of the two parts for the joke to carry over.

You can't learn Japanese.

No, I mean that it should have been obvious as soon as he posted it. Doesn't Ducknion look like a fusion of duck and onion already at first glance?
Did you miss this post? Grante,d that is a kid's book.

remember that time a localization team decided they'd censor a game with fog, what was the deal with that?

No, it's really not that deep. In the context of when Shirou says it, he's literally just pointing out the obvious: people die when they are killed. Yet in his case he's repeatedly been "killed", yet was brought back to life with magic. He's an exception to this extremely basic truth, hence why he's saying such an obvious thing; he's pointing out how his own survival is unnatural.

Korea or Germany?

Sequel is coming out soon.
They released a giant damage control article explaining how and why they are censoring it again.

>If 4kids were a company today, I'm sure Cred Forums would defend their practices.

No one could defend their practices.

This is the difference between good translation and bad translation. youtu.be/eHFULP0A9B4

This, I'm an atheist and I'm not suddenly going to change character's lines about praying because I think it's stupid. These characters are not me.

You can't translate honorifics (not all of them, at least).

For example, in the anime Log Horizon, there's a guy called Isaac who's the leader of a guild. He's a pretty cool no-nonsense warrior dude, so his followers/underlings/whatever just call him Isaac (no honorific) and talk to him in a pretty normal, casual way. At one point in time, Isaac becomes sort of a guardian/instructor for a little kid who's a prince. Since the kid is fucking royalty (and also too young to master proper courtesy) he just calls Isaac "Isaac-kun", which makes everyone else laugh and start referring to Isaac as Isaac-kun, with emphasis on the kun.

At this point, the certified professional "no honorifics ever" Crunchyroll translators have no idea what to do, since the honorific kun is an evil forbidden word. The kid isn't calling Isaac "little Isaac" or "Isaacpoo" or any of that bullshit, he's talking to Isaac the way everyone else does, but he's adding a kun after the end of his name, which people find funny because Isaac is a badass warrior dude. There is no suitable replacement for kun here, but because the translator refused to use kun, the few scenes that revolved around this small joke were a complete fucking mess, as the guy tried to somehow make up some bullshit whenever someone went "Hey Isaac-KUN" and everyone started laughing.

L's could be interpreted as living long enough to die on your own turns

Yeah, there was one line in CS where Ragna's master just says something short like "Ah, yes." in Japanese and the localised script has him filling the entire text box with "Why Ragna my boy, you'll be getting this old man to cockfight with a bull before I'll disagree with you on that one I tell you what." or some such shit.
In any case BlazBlue's localisation is garbage.

Yeah no shit direct word-for-word translations don't work. This is such a basic fact of language studies that it shouldn't warrant even mentioning.
But going off the rails and writing something completely new out of your ass isn't how it should be done either.

Also consider the fact that sometimes people like [thing] specifically because of its strong cultural identity and the novelty of unfamiliarity. "Creative" translating is essentially wiping out all traces of those pesky other cultures.

You underestimate Cred Forums's hatred of anything remotely Japanese or related to artistic integrity. These are the same people that think changing every character's name is okay if it sounds too Japanese.

That's not that deep either. He's just talking about cheating the death note.

>In the context of when Shirou says it
Never watched that show. That's not the only occurrence of the phrase, is it?

Thailand.

I barely remember them now though since I play all game in English, and have't read Pokemon manga or anime for years now.

I think this thread shows the opposite, to be honest.

Well, that's what you get for not having honorifics - I hope you're real proud of yourself, ENGLISH.

It comes up several times in the visual novel. I don't remember if it comes up more in the show because it was a terrible adaptation. But that's the context of the line whenever it comes up, anyway. Shirou does a lot of not dying when he's killed.

So the kid should humorously mispronounce Issac's name somehow, and everyone else should use it as an embarrassing nickname.

It communicates that the kid is young and doesn't have a handle on things, and is the equivalent situation in terms of other people mocking someone's name. You could also go the opposite route and have the kid call Issac Mr. Surname as he would a teacher, and everyone else lean into the "Mr." for mockery. Again, communicates the youth/inexperience while also having the name mockery.

when life gives you rice, make jelly donuts

>A pelican
>American

Oh my god.

THIS

It's ok to replace burgers with ramen because it's something that amerifats don't know about, but don't go turning qt petite girls into trans femnazis for fucks sake

Just call it spaghetti, paizano.

Except this is an example of where the proper translation isn't word-for-word but meaning-for-meaning. Obviously the meaning behind all of that is "Isaac's cool and no-nonsense so his followers treat him casually, then this stuck up prince starts treating him like an underling, which his followers find humorous." English has a wealth of vocabulary that's used contextually that can make this easily apparent without being reliant or fixated on a single honorific suffix. And unlike other examples, this is an example where taking slightly more liberties with the script ends up preserving the meaning behind it more than a literal translation does.

I will have to disagree with most of the Cred Forums's opinion on good localization.

Good localizations need to be creative in how to translate the meaning behind the words as accurately as possible without breaking the grammar of the language they are localizing it to.

Biggest example is how localizaers translate "It cannot be helped". That shit sound awkward in english and should definitely be changed to something according to the context.

That said, erasing the entire dialog, replacing it with a series of "..." or inserting memes is just downright retarded and unprofessional. People who do that shouldn't be working in translation.

However the author should always have the last word in how his work is localized. If he is against your translation, then you are wrong, period.

I meant the phrase comes up outside of Fate/ or does it not?

that thumbnail

>blacked