Artificial difficulty, ladies and gentlemen

Artificial difficulty, ladies and gentlemen.

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keep trying, don't get on his back or else he'll kick your face.

it took me many tries, but after beating him once it was very easy, so much so that I helped noobs do it for a long time after.

its one of the best fights in the series IMO.

get good faggot

youtube.com/watch?v=lLD9UHoo6HQ

parryable bosses were a mistake

>every souls discussions is rendered meaningless because you're not good enough
With your logic every game is a master piece.

>I don't know how to make a thread so I'll just make a generic shitpost instead
user if you need help just ask. We're here for you.

I punched him to death solo. You can do it.

cute :3

>You can parry/ripost him
wut dah fug

I never tried it.

Beat him sl1 fists only no summons on my first try. It's also my first souls game

git ugd

>filename

This is 10/10 if you trolling

Champ is difficult because he's fast, has great range, and a decently diverse move set. That's not artificial at all. Nameless King is artificial difficulty though, just a boring fight with a big ass health bar.

oh yeah? i beat him sl1 fists only no rolls no moving no controller never played souls while jacking it to lolicon hentai

>people using artificial difficulty as if it's really a thing
lol

if a woman can do it blindfolded, you have to be literally retarded to fail on this. literally.

what

oh really? I beat him fists only sl1 with no hands using only my penis on the controller, you can find it on some porn site if you search really hard.

>Champ is difficult because he's fast, has great range, and a decently diverse move set.
You mean attack relentlessly you run out of stamina and he combos your ass to death.

Beat him on the second try. Git gud scrib.

Try lowering your shield once in a blue moon or keeping a distance.

>after playing through the game a trillion times I can beat it by just slapping a sausage on my controllers so you should be able to do it too!

soulsfags everyone

I actually beat this guy on my first try, I was so disappointed (I love bosses that make me beat my fucking head against the wall). He has an awesome move set too, but I don't think he has enough health or does enough damage for a late game boss. The princes and nameless king were the hard bosses for me.

By our logic you just suck at video games. Let it dawn on you you conceited shitter.

>he immediately assumes I'm using a shield
>we don't use stamina to roll

It seems like that until it clicks how you exactly position yourself and are able to stay just out of the range of the really fast kick and body check and bait out the more telegraphed halberd attacks that you can dodge and punish him for. It just takes some time to figure it out

>artificial difficulty
>there's a button that lets you move out of the way of his attacks 100% of the time
>there's a button that lets you cancel his attack and hit him for shittons of damage

I think you're just bad.

You are retarded. Please refrain from posting.

Well, I was in denial but this pretty much settles it.

Dark Souls 3 is the worst of the lot. Pretty sure DLC won't be able to fix design this bad.

Soul Memory might've absolutely ruined DS2 multiplayer, but at least the single player experience wasn't this one note.

he's difficult because he has no stamina and can literally just chain attacks forever. Nameless King at least has a pattern you can exploit.

are you baiting? The Champ is THE most fair and also the most fun fight in the game

His stamina is still fair though. Honestly it's all about positioning you have chances to recover your stamina you just have to really manage it well.

>he can't focus for a full sentence before firing up implications
If you have to roll so much that you're running out of stamina, then you're staying too close to him and making him attack too much, or rolling too much when you don't have to. Try "or keeping a distance."

ds 2 is by far THE WORST GAME IN THE SERIES.

thats not up to debate.

Champ hits like a truck but is readable and has one of the easiest parry tells in the game.

Get good.

>tfw beat him and 95% of the bosses in ds3 on the first try including that lighting riding dragon dude all solo
>only boss I had some trouble with was multiplying fire army legion man
feels good not being retarded

Whatever, stay bad. I'll just go kill him again naked with a dagger and a leather shield.

>tfw beat him and 95% of the bosses in ds3 on the first try including that lighting riding dragon dude all solo
>only boss I had some trouble with was multiplying fire army legion man
But that is retarded, the Legion is one of the easier bosses. You probably just dominated the later bosses because you got over leveled after a bit.

itt: parry babies

>But that is retarded, the Legion is one of the easier bosses
Nah I think it was super late and I just kept throwing myself at him at out of anger
I don't over level.

What if I killed him by using Black Fireballs and Profaned Flames in between dodging his attacks?

I literally never played a souls game until ds3 and i killed gundyr my first try, also killed champion gundyr my first try too

simple hit and run tactics

Oh really? I beat him with half a R1 press

So on my first run through I finished around 75-80 SL. My vit was the base for Sellsword. The question I have for the Souls' community is why level an HP stat? Beyond PvP its relatively meaningless in the road to getting good and PvP is a total wash due to the netcode. Is PvP that critical for the people who play it?

ds2 is literally and figuratively the worst dark souls I've ever layed witness and eyes on

It's very rare to get through every single encounter without taking a hit, so most people prefer to have the room to take risks. Also it depends on your build, you would need more health to take advantage of armoured attacks for example.

I killed him on my first try.

Vit is useful for covering for mistakes but it also makes a big difference when dealing with status effects, particularly bleed.

Shit boss meant for Bloodborne. Go mage and he is a joke.

he isn't even difficult

you learned to roll twice the first time you fought him

now throw in another roll after his attacks. took me two tries and i had an extremely non-optimal character build

>Playing Mage on an action RPG
Never ever

No you don't understand, even if you beat the game with Donkey Kong bongos, the game is still artificially difficult. Because if the game isn't artificially difficult, it means that you're bad and video games if you can't git gud and beat it. And that can't possibly be true.

That's a very fair answer. It doesn't line up well with the hardcore community though i'm sure its much deeper than that. I always felt that pressuring yourself with the knowledge of a low health pool would give you greater incentive to avoid being hit.

I never considered that. I know I died three or four times to DoT effects, so you make a very solid point

Didn't have too much trouble with him myself, battle was kinda meh imo.

I had loads of stamina though so I just hedgehogged my way around him and killed him with ease.

Well, considering most people, "hardcore" or otherwise seem to (rather erroneously at times really) view number of deaths as the measure for skill, the main thing that stops you dying would be the most valuable stat for most. That's just one view though, but for the most part it's just not efficient to die in a single mistake and have to estus after every scrape, and leveling it up is just a matter of building your character. Lets you be much more offensive at times when you have more health to play with too.
t. someone who played pretty much every Souls game barely leveling HP if at all. If I remember right I fought Neato with a WHOPPING 11 VITALITY and everything, the default for Thief.

Not him, but I think it's important to avoid having to deal with 1hko's. If you don't boost your HP past a certain minimun almost every boss will potentialy 1hko you and that's just a bit too harsh unless you've put more than 1000 hours into the game.

Technicaly this falls into the "covering mistakes" utility, but I feel like dying to 1hko moves is significantly more bullshit-y than not managing your resources and taking unecessary damage that adds up with time.

The main difference is that the later is actualy a design choice worth of praise. At first I thought it was dumb not to put a bonfire outside every boss room, but after I realised that saving your estus up until you reach the boss is also an important aspect of the boss fight.

On the other hand, 1hko's in an already punishing game just feels like a stupid idea because it limits choice way too much. So much so that this "no point invested in vitality is ever a wasted point" became an unquestionated truth for everyone but those with the hugest of penises to finish the game with those feeble 11 vit you start with.

I fucking hate this term but every souls game has at least one git gud boss.
Demon's-Flamelurker
Dark-O&S
Dark 2-Raime
Dark 3-Champ
BB-Ludwig
All have mechanics that can absolutely wreck players that have only bothered to use one playstyle and are especially unforgiving on sword and board style. Memorize his patterns, they are all telegraphed. Once you beat him you will wonder how you ever lost.

Infinite stamina The Boss. Give up OP, From realized that so many people played Souls game that they had to come up with new ways for the games to cheat so they remain "so hard XD"

One thing is punishing stubborn players who keep repeating their mistakes instead of leaning the boss weaknesses. Other very different is a meme boss who is hard just for the sake of it.

Most of the time people yell "aritificial difficulty" they're just whining. But let's not deny From has indulged various times in the meme that their games have become and put overly difficult bosses or other hazards just for shits and giggles.

Hell, that's one of the biggest reasons DaS2 is considered so bad, even though it has a Pinwheel-tier boss for every other retardedly hard one.

yes, we get it vanilla ds2 sucked, thats why we treat it separately to sotfs edition. which is on par with 1.

ds3 vanilla is worse than ds2 vanilla,

Yeah that's more or less how I see it. The damage of attacks are generally balanced by how avoidable they are, but damage increases as you go through the game since it expects you to be getting stronger defensively. Disregarding health and going all in on other stats is a valid playstyle, but it's one with a lot of risk to it, and you have to be very confident in your evasion, and not everything can be avoided.

DS3 vanilla is better than either 1 or 2 if you don't count pvp. It's crazy how overrated DS1 PVE is. It was great but they've only improved the game mechanics since then outside of poise which is mostly a pvp element.

And the worst part is that unavoidable damage seems to be the direction From is taking.

Removing shields, removing poise, forcing you to fight in a fucking pit of poison while having buffed the poison effect to the Toxic level of damage... admitedly that last one was needed to make poison meaningful, but you get the point.

Ironically, making a tank character is still not viable, so even though nobody ever wants to be a tank (not even the game), everyone is forced to go that route with vitality.

This. DSP died 67 times to him

>And the worst part is that unavoidable damage seems to be the direction From is taking.
THIS

GOD THIS SO MUCH

>YOU WILL ALWAYS TAKE DAMAGE NO MATTER WHAT XD ALWAYS

It's clear the game wants you to get into a rhythm, if you can't then you deserve to get fucked up by him. He's an entirely respectable boss with no bullshit and I would even say his healthpool is too low

Except this is not Bloodborne, cuckboi.

Beat him on my second try on second playthrough.

Dark Souls 2 definitely features more artificial difficulty though. Ancient Dragon and Alonne for example. Their bonfire runs exist to annoy you.

I had far more trouble fighting him at the start of the game than the one you fight near the end.

I died once on Champion Gundyr and like 30 times on Ludex Gundyr

>Ludex
Kill yourself

Not having a shield doesn't make damage unavoidable, removing passive poise does the exact opposite since you can't just take the hit without stopping, and if you're talking about the Mytha boss fight in DS2, you were able to clear out that poison pit. You missed the point I was making, you should never assume you will be able to dodge everything always every time, but there's very few times if any where you're forced to take damage with no way around it, and those times are never able to kill you and aren't set up in a way to be truly unfair.

In what sense, big health pools? Champ has a ridiculously low health pool for the type of fight he is and unlike BB bosses none of his moves deal huge damage on their own. Meanwhile every hit you do chunks him and unless you fuck up you'll often have way more Estus than is necessary for this boss
he's way too easy

>someone who spent 100 hours on this boss alone memorizing every single move and sound of the boss is now good
Laughing my fucking ass of to be quite honest with you senpai.

Not having too much life is the only thing this boss did right. Also getting into rhythm is a Blood "monkey simulator" borne mechanic.

Of course those things don't make the damage unavoidable, but they make it harder to avoid.

Technically every damage is avoidable, with rare exceptions like the fall damage you take entering the Nito pit.
But by making it harder and harder to avoid damage, even if it's not killing damage, I an't help but feel the game is doing so with no real thought behind it.

It feels like the bosses themselves aren't necessarily trickier, but you're constantly put aganist mobs of lesser foes alongside them or in hazardous arenas.

And just as a clarification, when the game took poise away it makes more difficult to stagger foes, right? Or at least less clear to caculate.
I might be mistaken about this though.

I don't know about the poise thing. If anything it just made combat more binary with how easy it is to R1 stunlock enemies and to get stunlock comboed by them yourself.

>hug his ass
>circle strafe
>90% of his attacks will miss
So hard.

...

Why would you feel there's no thought behind it if it's managing to get past your previous strats and damage you? People are too quick to judge something that beats them as "unfair" or "badly designed", like how people complain about multiple enemies for some reason, there's still thought behind how many enemies or what those enemies are. It's somewhat naive to think the challenge that bests you more often is the one that isn't fair and shouldn't be added. That thinking just takes away from the possibilities of further unique challenges.

Them removing passive poise for the player didn't have anything to do with the enemies' poise. For them it always depends on the enemy just like always, some have it and some don't.

he's a hard boss, but the fight is 100% completely fair. Maybe you just suck

[lighting fast kick and no animation should bump intensifies]

It will literally miss if you just circle strafe to the right.

>But let's not deny From has indulged various times in the meme that their games have become and put overly difficult bosses or other hazards just for shits and giggles

you're not wrong, but Champ is defintely not the "artificial difficulty" boss of DS3.

that title easily falls on Nameless King's first phase.

>giant fucking bird with stupid hitbox
>flies away the moment you get within 200 yards of it
>giant fucking unannounced, delayed AoE
>camera fuckery just for the sake of it

luckily the second part of that fight is simple enough if you aren't a scrub and use your head, because i always burn through so much estus dealing with that bird's bullshit that i _have_ to play perfectly when fighting NK himself, or else i'm stuck fighing the fucking bird for an hour again.

...

>MLGS
>no WA spam, only R2 spam
>fat rolling
>chugging estus right next to the boss

you only have yourself to blame.

The kick is easy to read, though

>actually saying artificial difficulty
It's hitboxes are fine to deal with as long as you avoid the attacks right, the charged lightning slam he does you have to run towards the dragon to avoid because it's made to beat just dodging.
He doesn't always fly away when you get close, he always mixes up his pattern.
The announcement is him taking off, you can't get much more announced than that.
Stop locking onto the wrong target or locking on at all.

outplayed

The Champ is literally my favorite boss in the series and it only took me 3 tries to beat him, git gud

I can agree with you in theory.
But the reality of the situation is not so good.

Compare the Capra Demon with the giant rat faggot from the Doors of Pharos.
In both cases you absolutely HAVE to defeat the minions before you focus on the boss. But with the capra demon, even though you have very limited space you can dispatch the two dogs quicly enough before the demon kills you, or you can at least see his moves better to dodge him if you still haven't dealed with the dogs.

With the Rat Authority you have to deal with 4 or 5 even quicker rats that not only will have even less atack delay but also poison you. Also, from personal experience I find their hitboxes to be much harder to hit, at least with a spear.
On top of it all you have to kill them before he jumps down. Once he joins the fray you can't see his atacks coming because he is so big and his swipes are way too broad to effectively avoid, so even though his arena is bigger, you might as well be fighting inside in elevator because you'll never be out of reach.

Once I managed to kill the rats before he jumped down, I killed him first try. Alone he is just a worse Sif, with more predictable atacks and less patterns, only doing more stamina draining blows to your shield.

So, as I said, the boss itself is actualy easier, but the fight is 10 times more frustrating because stupid shit like not being able to see his fat ass on screen or being gangraped by the small rats.

They did a similar thing with the Gargoyles, but this rant is long enough as is.

Oh I didn't mean Champ was unfair, nor that any other ones you mentioned. But From does like to put some in there from time to time (and most tend to infest DaS2).

I feel like due to parry's you can still beat him like that

> elitism

> someone else is good at a game

> lmao ur good wat r u some kinda good player fuk off faggot.

dark souls 2 raped my parents

and my dog

I never really had a problem with the lesser rats. I used pyromancy to set up a lingering flame, then lobbed a fireball at them to pull them over.

When they got close enough I'd use a Zwei to cleave all of them, and the flame would finish them off. Then I'd just swap back to a quicker/safer weapon to take care of the RRA himself.

DaS3 is worse than DaS2 unfortunately. DaS2 is pretty lackluster, but I don't mind replaying it every once in awhile. DaS3 just feels like a chore to play through.

But there's nothing actually wrong with the way that boss is set up. It's similar in style to the Capra Demon, but it uses it's numbers in a different way. I didn't really have trouble with seeing his attacks, just that having to deal with all the attacks coming at me was difficult since I didn't use a shield. But that's how the boss is supposed to be and is a perfectly valid design. Having all the room to move in does count for something, but they purposefully made the enemies numerous and fast so that you couldn't feel too safe even with all the space there. Being frustrated when you lose isn't a sign of the boss being badly designed, that kind of thing is far too subjective.

I feel like people will have widely variable experiences depending on their loadouts.

Personaly I never play mages, but unless they have some serious AoE or lingering effect like some pyromancies I can't imagine anyone being able to kill them quick enough.
Better pray to be able to kill them in one hit by spamming R1 with a quick weapon like curved blade and don't even think about locking on. That's what I had to do.

>It was great but they've only improved the game mechanics since then outside of poise which is mostly a pvp element.
Poise was pretty useful in DaS1 PvE, especially against O&S and Nito.

That's something people really like to ignore for some reason. There's a ton of different ways to approach things, so it's very rare that people will have the same experiences, the same easy fights, and the same troubles.
Poise in DS1 was more than useful, it was practically broken. The removal of passive poise was a good thing, and there's still Iron Flesh anyway.

I actually went with a quality build and ran with a few pyromancies to compliment it. The lingering flame was really just a safety net in case I mistimed my UGS swing. The UGS itself was enough to take out the rats in 2 swings.

After playing through DaS2 I made it a habit to always have at least two different weapon sets equipped, rather than just rely on one weapon type for the entire game. Usually it's a straight sword and halberd/lucerne.

Straight sword was a safe option that works against all enemy types for the most part. Halberd is when I need to cleave or break through poise and stagger. It also helped a ton during invasions since everyone and their dog can parry a straight sword R1 these days.

Beat him on my first try. I don't get why the champ is considered so difficult. Every single attack is easy to roll out of.

I had much more trouble with twin princes, nameless, and SoC. Those 3 all wrecked my shit for an hour or two each.

Great maces suck.

You can parry him to death.

You won't even get hit once.

To a skilled player, Gundyr is actually one of, if not the easiest boss in the game.
Although certainly one of, if not the most satisfying, because the encounter is such an overt skill-check.

Here's the issue.
The dogs are as much a boss as the demon. They're a factor you have to consider alongside the small environment.
But those things are manageable as a whole. Together they make the boss, which is not super hard, but can be a bit tricky if you don't prepare for any of those 3 factors.

The rat is not that.
With the same 3 elements you have basically a QTE where you have to kill the rats in 5 seconds. If your class can't do that you're fucked.
Then you have the rat itself which is piss easy. Estus management is a non factor because the fight with the rats will never last that long and the bonfire sits right next to the mist wall. His atacks are easy to avoid and he doesn't do much damage. The only threat is if you've been poisoned in the fight prior and don't have enough life to endure its effect or if your shield is not 100%.
The arena is irrelevant. Feel free to disagree, but having more space didn't really interfere with any of those battles. I'm grateful that there aren't holes or lava pits there, but I feel like the fight would have been the same in an arena a quarter that size.

The elements don't work together. The rats are retardedly hard to kill fast enough, but once you do the fight is over. You'll spend the same 1 hour or so to beat it the first time, but instead of progressively get better and learning the patterns or improving your performance in the trek towards the mist wall, you'll spend 99% of the time raging at the rats and the rest in an underwhelming boss fight.

rofl you did not one shot nameless king solo, go away.

Maybe mine was just one of the worst classes to fight him.

Being a light spear/sword wielding class does sound like a tough one considering the low poise to face the rats head on.
But still, not being able to hit a spear thrust at point blank range and not having any opportunity to snipe them with a bow, for example, felt particularly infuriating. Also, bear in mind I fought him for the first time relatively late, beyond level 100.
I can't even imagine how hard it would be for a mage to do that though.

If they were 2 rats, even if a little beefier, you could get in a red tearstone ring and try to snipe them with low HP. Wouldn't a high risk, high reward gamble like that be much more interesting?

That explains why you can't do it.

I beat him on the first try git gud u fagit

The Champ is pretty fucking easy though.

The only boss that ever gave me issues in 3 was Pontiff Sulyvahn because I couldn't learn his parry timings, and that's coming from someone who does NOT in any way claim to be good at Souls games. Anybody who even got halfway through Bloodborne can handle 3's bosses pretty easily.

Aside from maybe Old Dragon King but I got tired of 3 before I got to him,

You made this thread yesterday only about pontiff

user I am beginning to suspect your.... baiting

>a fight where you have an early chance to do as much damage to the smaller enemies before the big enemy comes in, so you have to make that time count
>a QTE
That's just silly, I can't really take the rest of this seriously when you make that comparison. Also the main rat can still be a decent fight with how fast he moves as well as the damage he does, and it also depends on how many of the other rats you deal with.
Spears usually are less effective at that kind of thing, but that's why builds allow you to use and swap between multiple weapons, something I feel is lost on a lot of people when they dedicate themselves to using only one specific weapon. Just ain't the right way to do things I think. Although you could probably still keep the distance with one or use it's other attacks.
I don't really see the point in your ring suggestion, it would change the boss having only 2 in there, but the way you're talking about can happen already.

He isn't even the hardest boss in the game you dingus. Learn to fucking parry and dodge roll.

Artificial difficulty, ladies and gentlemen

This actually is artificial difficulty since the AI is programmed to be able to animation cancel better than Nero or Dante can in order to counter certain moves

I don't understand the point of his phase 1. It's just an easier phase 2 that doesn't really teach you anything about it that you didn't know from the original fight (except the kick). It's kinda just there to waste your time if you died.

>thinking her gender has anything to do with it

fuck you... seriously FUCK. YOU. I'm tired of seeing this kind of shit on Cred Forums...

Mfw I killed him first try.

Whiteknight please

DaS3 is fucking horrible

boring linear pos

Enjoy wasting your time retard

That's not artificial it's just different to when you play as them, which makes sense since you're not playing as them.

>learn opening
>abuse it
Dark Souls is a very difficult series

hahahah that's great

You talk like every enemy has the same parry window. Get real, even a three thousand hour souls nerd needs at least a few tries to be able to parry bosses effectively.

Pontiff is a shield whore, nothing hard about that fight.

...

He's bullshit that's for sure. Had to resort using scrub weapons. I don't give a fuck really, wanted the journey to end as I was bloated as fuck from Souls.

Please From, no more Souls.

I had to use two bombs. Fuck him.

Not him, but I beat nameless king first try. I'm not great at the game by any means, nut sometimes you get lucky. He whooped my ass on subsequent playthroughs

Beat him first try at level 60 with an average framerate of 19. Get good while I try to get a good pc.

All difficulty in video games is artificial.
git gud

>can't beat the first boss

Do you people even play videos games?

John Cena is the best fight in game, become improved.

what does this mean

That's the Champ not Iudex you triple retard

That fallout 4 thing where enemies "mutate" and randomly get all their health back. Shit pisses me off

Calm yourself gamergatelite...

t.das2 shitter who keeps going behind him.

neck yourself faggot, nobody likes you das2 cancer fags.

Good one.

that Cred Forums is full of casuals