Would pic related have saved the Saturn?

There's also the fact that, unfortunately, Sonic was losing a lot of momentum at the time. Another 2D Sonic game, no matter how well-made, probably would not have sold as well as desired. It doesn't help matters that its biggest rival at the time, Mario, made the jump to 3D and succeeded spectacularly at it. Sonic Adventure, while flawed, as a necessary leap for Sonic to stay alive.

Also, I know it's cool to hate the 1998 redesign of the characters, but at the time, the redesigns were very well received and especially helped to rejuvenate Sonic's popularity in the west. So we can bitch about it all we want, but the redesign was honestly very good for Sonic at the time.

If this masterpiece of a game couldn't save the saturn, I don't know what could have.

As true as all that is, it still had a pretty good life in Japan. It fared far better than the Dreamcast, at any rate.

Sonic Xtreme could have, if Naka hadn't been a stingy fuck over his engine.

It did good in japan because it had games that appealed to japanese people...you dont say.

lol.

I *guarantee* that autists will be complaining about the platform-heavy nature of Sonic Mania once it gets released. The game is clearly taking a lot of design cues from Sonic CD. That won't sit well with the 'hold right and run through barren, obstacle-less terrain to win or it's a bad game' crowd.

I'm not seeing the Sonic CD design you're talking about. Studiopolis' level design is reminiscent of Sonic 2 and the new parts of Green Hill are like Sonic 3 and Knux.

The fastest games are my favorite (advance 2, rush, unleashed, generations) but mania actually looks pretty good because it looks a lot faster than the original games. It'll also be like $20 so if it ends up sucking I won't feel as burned and in a way its cool to see fans of the old sonics finally get what they want after all these years and sega did something very nice for them so i'll support that. In fact I'm not even sure if I'll be getting sonic 2017. If the boost is gone and the classic levels are as bad as the ones in generations, I'll wait for a heavy price drop. I swear everything in that trailer looked perfect until CS showed up

The game seems like a nice balance of fast parts and platforming parts, like Sonic 1 or Sonic CD.

Ideally, the game should reward you with non-stop fast if you play well and constant stops and slow-downs if you play poorly. I don't really like Sonic 1 as much because it constantly forced you to stop and slow down even if you were doing everything right.

They all have this problem, being real here

this, but most people disliked those levels (scrap brain zone, metropolis zone, etc). i don't get the hate for slower zones like marble zone at all though, it is very likely my favorite with fun platforming and secrets and combat situations

They do. Though I don't even consider it a 'problem', personally. I dig the slower platforming bits, as long as they're scattered evenly throughout the game and don't go on for minutes at a time.

Eh. Thing is, as far as platforming goes, Sonic has always been a bit weaker than his competitors. Sonic isn't actually designed for precision platforming. Even when jumping from a standstill, his landings have always been less precise than the likes of, say, Mario or Mega Man.

I guess in retrospect we would have probably loved a 2D Sonic on the Saturn. I think it would definitely have done well if it was a launch title.

>Sonic isn't actually designed for precision platforming

Whether it was or it wasn't, it worked for me. I'm glad Sonic Mania has a lot more platforming bits in it. I did not like Sonic Rush or the other games that were just run, run, run. At all.

Because you go from an awesome free run in green hill that has a fantastic mix of everything only for the game to suddenly hit the brakes and pad the game out by making the gimmicks and level paths as slow as can be. I dont know why people bag on the 3D games for this, sonic has had padding since the start.

Sonic works best when using sloped terrain to use it for his advantage. Straight up floating platform to floating platform gameplay shows that sonic slides around upon landing, similar to heroes although not as wildly

I doubt it. Competition from the N64 and Playstation was kind of a major issue. Another 2D Sonic game would never have been able to compete with Mario 64 or Final Fantasy VII.

maybe in japan since sega loved to kneecap its international branches

It wouldn't have done well against the 3D giants, but might have gone down as a 32-bit classic like Symphony of the Night and Mega Man X4.

Believe me, those games are nowhere near as callouts as you might think they may be, even with the success of the n64 and ps1. Mania being on the saturn would just render everything else the saturn might possibly have, kinda like how cd and khaotix did for the cd and 32x. Actually this case already kind of exists, where nights is the only thing anyone can recall from the saturns library because it was pushed that hard by sega/sonic team even if the game itself is just above average.

what's with the edgelord text at the bottom?

Mega Man X4 didn't do as well as you think it did. That's why X5 had a far lower budget. It did well considering it didn't even have much of a budget to begin with, but that's because 2D games were easier to make at the time than 3D ones.

Not talking about how well it sold, just talking about lasting legacy. SotN specifically proved 2D games could still be just as good in quality as 3D ones.

Reminder:

"Tom Price of Computer Gaming World felt appeal of the game itself is limited to Mega Man and platformer fans, who likely already own the console version of Mega Man X4.[25] Computer Games Magazine summarized, "It's simple. If you're a Mega Man fanatic you'll love this game. If you're not, you won't. Yes, Mega Man X4 is better than Mega Man X3, but that's like saying Beach Babes from Beyond is a better movie than Redneck Zombies: it's all drek anyway, so why bother?""

Oh I guess thats true in a way then. Its just that that was such an important era since sony and nintendo pushed for 3D hard. Other publishers and developers could do what they wanted, but as a console maker, sega needed to step up and prove what they were capable of and they just didnt do that.

Old sonic games in japan had text like that in their covers. And it's not really edgy.

Sonic 1 had this tagline for example:

>Don't just sit there and waste your precious time. When you want to do something, do it right away. Do it when you can. It's the only way to live a life without regrets.

>if it was a launch title

I'm not saying it would have been able to compete but I do think it would have succeeded. Sega was a stupid company though so it pretty much doesn't matter what they would have done. They would have fucked up eventually.

Hm. I dunno.

Symphony of the Night also had a shit-ton of unique improvements and unique gameplay updates compared to previous games. It was a very different game from Super Castlevania IV. We'll have to see what Sonic Mania's like, but I don't think the Drop Dash alone is enough to make a real difference.

Sonic Mania's getting a lot of buzz now because a lot of players long for the old glory days of Sonic. But back then, it would have just been "Sonic 4". Reviews would have been pretty harsh, like "It's a good platformer, but it's not really unique enough to stand on its own" or "In an era of constant change, change seems to be the one thing Sonic can't keep up with". Shit like that.

The Sega CD did well and the Mega Drive sold better than the Super Nintendo in many regions.

Nothing would have stopped the PLAYSTATION.

Sonic will be shit on no matter the era

>having diverse levels is a bad thing
every game is appealing to you boostfags i don't know why you are still complaining about every level daring to have a different playstyle

Sonic unleashed is my favorite 3D game and one of my all time favorite games. Believe me, different playstyles don't affect me in anyway and I never complained about them, even when playing sonic adventure for the first time in 2000. As long as the regular sonic stages are displays of incredible feats of speed that only the blue blur can do, then I have no problem with "diverse" levels or different playstyles

Bump for sonic mania

I really hope 2017 is a Good year for Both Sonics and especially Modern Sonic cause I just want to see this joker succeed on his own without Classic Sonic.

>cause I just want to see this joker succeed on his own without Classic Sonic.

bad news user

Sonic colors will go down in history as the last game modern sonic can have his own game

I know but the modern sonic fans were a bit dissapointed in seeing classic sonic in project 2017 since Mania is a thing.

Saturn didnt need saving, it was perfectly fine, would sonic have saved the playstation? NO

Unless the modern stages are as good, long, and visually attractive as unleasheds levels, I'll be passing on 2017. I play modern sonic for the fast and they pan the camera to 2D 60% of the time so I can jump on some blocks going in an up and down motion. Nah, done with that shit

I don't blame you for not counting Lost World.

>Saturn didn't need saving

But they still made the Dreamcast instead of just holding off to compete with the PS2 better.

God, the Deadly Six were so fucking annoying. Always blabbing their mouths off in the boss stages. The gameplay was more or less okay I guess, but literally everything about the "story" just pissed me off and ruined the game for me. Sonic was a stupid dumbass and the Deadly Six were annoying as fuck.

No, because saturn's problem was the fact the many games never got released in the west, some due to translation(all those jrpgs).
Still the saturn needed a new Sonic platforming game that never had and ST should have done at least another game in 2d. If they ever did in 3d that game would be short as hell with small ass stages due to limitations
>people getting crazy with 3d in 1995
No. People were getting used to that. In 97 or 98? Sure.
Xtreme never looked good. It would never be a good transition after Sonic 3&Knuckles.
The only thing interesting was the fish-eye idea, but for a Sonic game? No. It would be going from a solid platforming game into some weird labyrinth game

I honestly completely forget this game every time. I dont really count it as a modern game though since it tried to branch out and make cheaper, slower levels. I have never cringed at a sonic game before this one but the deadly six and the writing and characterization of everyone was so fucking BAD. Terrible game. Unfortunately for them, theyve boxed themselves in by making sonic go that fast with the boost. If the next 3D game isnt equal to or faster than boosting, it will always be trash

Agreed, I know it's expensive to make levels like they did in unleashed but I think if SEGA makes a Massive map and chop them into section like Colors I feel that might give more of an idea of what obstacles to implement in each act to avoid pic related with just a empty space.

>If the next 3D game isnt equal to or faster than boosting, it will always be trash
Sonic needs to become bit more "acrobatic" and not some heavy tank shit. Sonic jumping since the boost era is terrible, as not having a damn spindash as in the old days

That is arid sands act 2, where the main gimmick of the level is QTEs. The 3D space is used decently enough, especially since those red rocket guys are annoying as fuck and there are medals to look for. The colors idea sounds good on paper but the end result is a game that feels very cheap. I'd rather have a massive effort for one act 1 that feels incredible to play through than something thats cut up, they pan the camera to 2D, and fill up the place with squares and call it a day, maybe thats just me though I dont know.

Agree on the Spindash bit but remember what those idiot did to it in Lost World? Let alone there pathetic atemps to bring back the Super Peel Out move.

>The game should only be fun if you've already played it several times before
kys yourself.

Rushed the game to a point the parkour idea(that was a good idea) is casted aside pretty early. Wanting the Mario audience was also a problem(that's why kinda mix of Galaxy+Xtreme). And a run button...? Really?

I agree thats retarded but theres some type of truth in that. Its the same reason why eggmanland can be 70 minutes at first but 13 later. Or why planet wisp can be 10 minutes but is 4-5 after learning it. This is what i like the most about the boost, you are always able to go fast and you are given the choice to either boost at risk or play it safe first and learn the level. But at any time you are able to go fast

>Wanting the Mario audience
That was a massive mistake on it's own since the majority of those guys despise everything about Sonic.

Nothing could save the saturn

>played this for the first time this summer
>literally the best Sonic game since S&K

lol

Maybe

it's true though

lol

Possibly, but the large problem in general is that most of the good games in the saturn library simply never left japan.
Most of the good games by the way being 2d games, like sonic mania here, because higher ups like bernie stolar thought only the 3d games would appeal to the west even though the vast majority of the 3d games on the saturn sucked since it wasn't made for 3d games.
I bet most westerners don't even know that the saturn was made specifically for 2d games, how could they when the shitty 3d games were the majority of the games anyone ever saw.

The saturn beat out the n64 in japan.
I just thought that was interesting.

daily reminder the only reason the saturn failed and sega had to pull out of the console market was sega of america, starting with the 32X onwards

Those "amazing" jap games stayed exclusive for a reason, the execs knew they sucked. Now sure there was some big casualities, like shining not being finished but still. a majority of them were garbage and would sell less than 20k if localized, why even kid yourself?

No, but it might have helped the first year or so.