Use 3D engine to make a game look 2D as possible

Sprite work is far more expensive than 3D modelling even super duper realistic 3D art

>Guilty Gear
>animation
ASW cant animate for shit and hide it behind tons of crazy graphic effects.

Basically this.

However it should be noted that the method that Xrd uses ended up being very costly and job specific to the point that ArcSy has said that it's probably not something they would ever do again with the current technology outside of Guilty Gear.

which begs the question of why even bother to do it in the first place
and why bother bringing back GG just to casualize it and strip it of every interesting mechanic it's had and replace it with BB tier fuckshit.

Don't have to handdraw all sprites in between but can just use 3d animation with cell shaded graphics, less work and looks better

I didn't know so many GG veterans hated Xrd. Before it came out all I remember is people talking about how annoying and difficult the mechanics were in older GGs.

Which I'm kinda glad for.

GG's art style is fantastic but I'll always have a hard on for pixel art. I want more BB in my life.

It's not just about the 2D art initially but about upkeep over time. The 3D is still a fuckton of work up front, ASW has to do a lot of manual tweaking and work with it and touch up stuff too after. But once they do get that done for a character, it becomes much, MUCH cheaper and easier to do things like change around costumes entirely rather then just color palette swaps, or invent new attacks or do story mode stuff for fun or whatever.

Fundamentally, when everything is hand drawn every single change requires equivalent work down the road, you don't amortize the initial investment much. The value of the 3D is "cost" but it's more complex then that, it's not necessarily simply about cost on a one time basis but cost and flexibility over time. It'll give them more flexibility in adapting to new tech too, if they ever do want to do a 4K version for example it'll be much much easier then having to redraw everything from scratch.

3D modeling allows much better animations for far cheaper. In Guilty Gear XX, you can play the entire sequence of sprites a single character has in 5 seconds. The game is supposed to be a super skill-based 60 FPS fighting, and yet most moves that require frame perfection only have 3 or 4 different frames drawn for them.

The "3D is cheap up front" was always a stupid meme though. Good 3D is costly, just like good 2D is costly. If Xrd and later GGs do well enough to last ASW another decade or more though then the cost of the 3D probably will pay off long term as they get to recycle work.

Whatever happens though they did an amazing job for Xrd itself and I'm glad both because it's a lot of fun and because it helps show what can be done in principle and makes other devs who suck look bad.

And it's pretty much the same way in Xrd.

Xrd is probably the best GG we could get in this generation.

Besides, +R exists when it really didn't have to.

Anyone have pics of the GG models without the lighting engine? Or is the lighting painted on?

Easier than drawing frames

2D is way more expensive in long term. 3D is more expensive in short term, but models can be posed and tweaked and reused, which makes long term costs much lighter. Everyone shifts to 3D for cheaper longer term strategy, and GG is no exception. Only a one off anime game would probably use sprites now.

>2D is way more expensive in long term.
That's what I said?

It's only more expensive because of the lighting engine. The lighting is the biggest factor how good something looks in 3D.

3D you make the model once and can reuse it infinitely to make however many animations. 2D you have to draw each and every frame by hand so adding new moves or animations becomes much more expensive and time consuming in 2D than 3D when you already have the model ready and rigged for animation. In the long run 3D ends up saving time and money.

To make sales off that dumb gimmick to weebs
Really annoys me that Xrd didn't bother to make the animations consistent 60fps

...

It's supposed to mimic the frames from the previous games, and every single frame animated is really not necessary. Without identifiable frames it becomes a clusterfuck of too much shit happening, see: Skullgirls

They look like shit without 20 layers of "makeup" on them.

Xrd is the Anzu of fighting games.

It may cost as much but its still easier to work whit.
You have to draw each individual frame for 2d.
In 3d you just moody existing models for frames.

Which is ignoring one of the main advantages of 3d for a superficial reason.
I mean fuck it let's go put Sagat in SFV and have his st.rh be a fucking 3 frame animation, that doesn't look retarded or anything.

Fighting game community would throw a shitfest if these games had a working z axis because it becomes much harder. 2d fighters are for pussies anymore

>it doesn't look good if you remove all the good looking effects

Wow I hate GG now

>3d models look shit without lighting

wtf i hate video games now

Everything 3D looks like shit without "makeup"

The FGC throws a shitfit at anything that isn't trying to ape capcom fighters.

They're basically LoLfags, gets incredibly angry at getting bodied online while constantly pumping up how "legit" their genre is because it got featured on ESPN2.

It's pathetic tbqhfam.

Should change that to MobaFags.

Same difference honestly but I see your point.

Don't forget that they still have to make 3d models when making 2d sprites.

>Muh Virtua Fighter
cmon post the webms, it's all you're good for.

>Everyone who hates Crapcom fighters is the same person

Man, it must suck to know how bad your game is but felling contractually obligated to defend it.

Is Baiken yet?

Shit my bad I replied to the wrong post.

>use 3d models
>still have choppy, inconsistent animation
Why is arcsys so adamant about this?

Dizzy's animations say otherwise

Because the fluid animation looks weird as fuck.

Also key frames. Game is so fast you need to distinguish animations instantly without needless clutter.

rip away normal,bump,and height maps from any modern game from any platform and look how shit it would look, every modern game is using some sort of trick to look good.

Hope they shoot for at least 3s level of smooth animations in a future game.

They can't, you just don't understand it?

They do have very detailed animations where it doesn't affect gameplay at all. Like idle and crouching/standing up
But when it comes to the normals and specials it has to be like that so you can react.

Well the models were outright designed for the engine, lighting, and filters of the game, of course they'll look bad raw. Go take a look at raw Smash 4 models out of engine for example, it's not a pretty sight.

this is my favorite part of Smash Bros being popular

>game comes by which has comparable levels of depth
>plays differently and doesn't use a stick so everyone hates it

Guilty gear was animated by hand
no need for expensive ping pong suits

Even better when you consider how the FGC labels every fighting game that isn't SF dead while smash continues to get record turnout at every tournament it's featured in.

If you're an FGCuck and you're reading this, realize that it's all your fault that smashfags have invaded your tournaments.

Revelator added a model viewer recently right? How does that work if the models are an absolute mess when seen from angles other than what's intended?

They're preset poses. You can change the colors and expressions though.

>React to this move with very little animation tell
Uh, that's not how it works.
See: Charlie "Dash and Mash for Evo Cash" Nash

>He doesn't know that 3d models are cheaper then 2d hand draw models because you can reuse the assets.

it's fatzard enabling them

wonder why they added them though

Because they give record numbers that eclipse everything except SF.

Considering "WE ESPORTS NOW," they'll stay so long as they bring the money.

youtube.com/watch?v=zPDmCqrlPOc

It's cute.

So what are the key differences between Xrd and +R? Did everyone move over to the former or does the latter still have an active playerbase?

Xrd is main stage tier
+R is struggle side tourney/exhibition tier

>anime
>not inherently struggle tier

They mentioned that one of the reasons was because they didn't want to have to compete with their own franchise. The 3D models give it it's own distinct appeal without overlapping with BlazBlue.

that and made the change to widescreen easier to deal with.

>game adds neutral
>dickriders tells it's bad
Yeah, sure thing buddy.

>>game adds neutral
Normal into YRC baiting is not "neutral".

>baiting is not neutral
Oh wow.
I mean, it still must be a shock to go from the turn based games with AC in there name to an actual fighting game.

>the turn based games with AC