Invade

>Invade
>Host has two faggots with him plus the darkmoon blade that shows up 20 seconds later
>Every. Fucking. Time.
How did they manage to fuck up invasions this hard?

I don't know. I could understand them letting the dude have a friend to help him out, but three fucking dudes make it just stupid.

that's how they program the invasion to be

according to them, invaders have a higher chance to invade worlds that already have a phantom in it

then they top it off with the darkmoon blades which they probably forgot about and left as is so we have a never ending wave after wave fight so long as you exist in his realm

When's the last time you played OP? Usually I invade and they either have no phantom or one phantom. Occasionally a blue will spawn after a while and then die to mobs before he even finds the hosts.

The only problem area is Anor Londo but really that's to be expected that it would be gank parties there with the Aldrich stuff

it's like people think the first week experience is what the game was like forever. Things have changed a lot by now due to lower playercounts and less people leaving summon signs

DaS3 was the logical next step with equipment matching, but they tried to protect summoning hosts so hard that they ultimately gutted invasions. I have been invading exclusively (coop is for faggots) since Demon's and with each game I've had to adopt different tactics for success. DaS3 forces you to either become an ambush predator or a dmb/wombo combo abuser. Honestly the fact that they nerfed both the hornet ring and the obscuring ring has convinced me that From just doesn't like invaders, but feels that just making it a coop game would ruin the feeling of difficulty and accomplishment.

Invaders are faggots ruining the fun for others. If s a player wanted pvp he should just join a convenant.

>first week experience
That was like the first 4 month experience

Literally everytime i invade lothric or boreal valley its into a gank. That shit happned today dozens of times.

>yfw you kill them all

git gud

>Dark Souls 1 had an arena
>No one used it

>Dark Souls 2 had TWO arenas
>Fucked up by multiple factors (item to enter, rampant metafags, soul-level, etc)

>Dark Souls 3 has NO arenas
>"Invaders just ruin fun for others!"
>Literally the second easiest game to kill invaders

Play offline faggot.
At least it's not fucking Bloodborne.

I don't mind uneven PVP, especially if I'm invading because fair enough I'm trying to fuck up their game. It's the idea that people go from start to finish with max summons that annoys me.

invading is part of the game. saying you didn't choose to get invaded is like saying "i didn't choose to lose this game of csgo/dota 2/lol/any other competitive game."

It's almost always 2-3 phantoms, but I actually like it that way. At least now, hosts will try to progress when there's an invader, which lets you buttfuck them when the time is right.

So did anyone else just beat the shit out of the asylum demon with their fists and not see the door off to the left? I feel like a dumbass for not noticing that now

>Invade
>The game spawns you in a different location
>Takes forever to find the guy
By the time you find him, you don't wanna fight anymore

I invade everywhere from SL20 to SL70 and don't have problems dealing with a host and two phantoms. Darkmoons included, who are often the absolute worst at PvP.

Most of the time it's just people going through the game and they are not very good at all at PvP, and their advantage makes them very arrogant and it's very easy to punish that.

No youre the only one that retatded. Sorry

>tfw someone invaded me once and actually looked around to see if I was alone.

It was his luck that I was doing a no summons run but I still won in the end.

All you have to do is waddle your fatass into an enemy mob and they'll die.

You Invader-fags deserve it. 4 games we had to deal with your shit, and now you finally get screwed over, thank fuck.

>I was doing a no summons run

Invaders should be able to summon purples for shits and giggles

You sort of get better at fighting multiple people though.
I guess if you were used to just shitting on PvE fags just playing through the games in other souls games it is a lot of harder but I like that the games do different things.

Not op, but 80% of the time when I leave my summon down I get pulled into a petty gank matchup with a slew of assholes. I'm kind of decent with the pvp and if I ever get invade I just hang out in an area not to far from the bonfire and wait.

I just want to help a dude with a level and beat the boss.

This would be mostly true if giant tree seeds weren't so damned easy to get

No kidding. Low level white phantoms are twinks more than half of the time too.

What? Every time I see anyone online play this game they always summon some fags to help them, either when they get invaded, through areas or to fight bosses.

I wanted to do a couple of runs where I didn't summon anyone for anything.

I've yet to come across anyone that's used them.

Call it dumb luck but I think most hosts get too flustered to even think about using a seed. That or they didn't know

This would actually be brilliant

I would also really love it if Red friendly fire for invaders didn't exist.

>get invaded by darkbaby
>the dungeon is still full
>he tries to attract me to mobbed area as I fuck his shit up
>he gets there in the middle of them waiting for me to come
>I use THAT item
>watch as he is anally raped by his friends
Sweet satisfaction.

>sad little lonely neckbeard meets pros
>he's shit
>cries about it

Every time

That is some major luck. I'd say at least 1/3 of the worlds I enter are already seeded, and of those that aren't about half get seeded after I spawn in.

I'm just giving you a hard time. Most of the people I know don't use summons usually, so it was just kind of funny to see someone refer to it like a challenge run or something of that sort.

>get invaded
>push invaders shit in
>continue to do so until he runs out of estus
>he runs to obvious group of enemies and just waits there
>he still waits
>I walk to boss area, enter and the game ejects him

I mean what the fuck did he expect,also im impressed people can be that bad AND retarded

Havent played DS3 yet. but all I remember about invasions in DS1 and DS2 were laggy assholes getting free backstabs and hits on you because they have 250 ping.

Either that or they never showed up intending to have a fun fight. They showed up min maxed as fuck purely to grief people with overpowered magic or weapons. The twinks in DS1 were the fucking worst.

Oh man you should have been here when the game was released. The tears about giant tree seeds were delicious.

>invade
>host with two buttbuddies
>host has twice as much estus
>host has 30% more hp
>phantoms also can estus
>blue enters after a while
>equipment scaling means that you are all of equal power
>seed ensures the invader loses his only benefit
>chugging estus is so fast that it's impossible to punish
>if you kill a phantom, the host can just summon another one
>battles are one guy with double estus and extra health plus 2-3 respawning phantoms vs 1 phantom that may or may not be attackable by npcs
>mfw when, against all odds, you manage to corner the host alone and get him low enough
>he alt+f4's

>alt-f4s
I dont understand why people do this, its not recorded anywhere, and it's quicker and easier to just die

I think everything would be fine if they made it so you have your HP handicap only if the host is solo. Or maybe even one phantom.
If he summons another one, your max HP should raise to your normal HP imo.

Just make estus punishable again so that hosts won't just non-stop chug with no repercussion.

>Darkwraith XXXDark SteelXXX invades your world
*steps out of the shadows, full darkwraith gear shining in the moonlight*
So you are my target.
*unsheathes dual katana*
This will be over fast.
*parries your attack, critical hit, instantaneous bloodloss*
Do not resent me, it's just business.
*rolls behind you, backstabs kills you, walks away and looks over his shoulder*
Nothing personal... kid.

No they should make it so that you cant just roll all over the place like a faggot because it barely uses any stamina and slow down estus recovery. Also give the invader max estus uses

Invasions are a flawed concept to begin with
>how should we handle pvp? should we set up special arenas with level and gear limits to keep things fair and fun?
>lol fuck that, lets just dump one player in another's world and have the other player fight both him and the computer at the same time! doesn't matter if the invader has an +10 lightning assrapehander or if the other player is stuck with shitty gear and surrounded by enemies, who the fuck cares about balance?

You're supposed to die a lot.

This is, like, a recurring theme in all of the games. Have you been paying attention?

>balance in a primarily single player game
Wanting pvp in souls to be extremely regulated like how you suggest just saps the fun out of it, the best part of the pvp was the potential to fuck around.

No, the concept is fine
the problem is the players, mostly American ones.
They cannot handle losing gracefully and will whine and bitch because they haven't been taught that it's okay to lose in years, everyone in America is taught that there's no such thing as losing and everyone's a winner, when that worldview is challenged they get pissy and their coping mechanism is throwing a tantrum about it.

>invade guy with phantom
>well ok I guess not too ba-
>darkmoon sentinel spawns
>darkmoon blade spawns

THREE NIGGAS

THREE

>actually getting a sentinel
Calling bullshit
no one wears the way of blue

>THREE NIGGAS

im glad this is not as obscure as i thought it would be

Plenty of people do

How do you think these people are supposed to ganksquad without friends?

as long as you convinced yourself that you know what you're talking about

...

Really the problem with invading isn't that it's hard, it's just frustratingly unfun. There's a ton of little things wrong with it that just compound into a problem way worse than the sum of it's parts. The actions you can take as an invader can be undone way too easily by the host. His phantoms outnumber you, and can heal more than you. Since they outnumber you, they can use their estus more safely. You can't ignore the phantoms as the host can run away very safely, and you can't kill the phantoms as he can just spawn more. And that's just a small part of the ugly picture.

I just invade in the area behind Pontif Sulyvahn's room. If they have like 3 fucking phantoms with them then you can just run to the silver knights for help with their giant FUCK YOU arrows and their infinite poise

Multiple summons isnt that big of an issue. Dark souls 2 had it too and it was mostly fine. The big problem is the pvp combat itself. Its really hard to punish estus spam unlike in 2 so getting the host through all those phantoms is next to impossible. In 2 being in low health was incredible dangerous and the slow estus chug meant that an agressive invader could punish the chug. In 3 the host can just run away forever and chug like its nothing.

Back in 2, an invader disables estus use for summoned phantoms.

Why they changed that in 3, I'll never know.

if you want pvp why dont just leave red sign?

I guess they didnt see MY DOUBLES

CHECK EM

lol git gud

Because i wnt to invade not just simple pvp. Theres a difference fuckwad.

I got LotF for free* on PSN and now I want to get into the genre. What's the best Soulsborne game? Bloodborne?

yeah you want to be a dick instead of having an actual fair fight. you deserve the ganksquads, dickwraith.

Play them in release order. All are good.

DaS > BB > DeS=DaS3 >>>> DaS2
MY OPINION BEST OPINION

Bloodborne, but its the most unique. It doesnt really play like a souls game

You are the definition of a pussy

no thats ur mom

Wow you are a massive pussy bitch aint ya? If youre too scared of invaders play offline. Thats what the option is there for fag.

no i need to be online to summon for pontiff cause he's the worst boss in the series

You sure have a problem with the US, huh?

Well maybe don't go into someone's game to ruin their time asshole. All invaders are scum and I love wasting as much of your time as possible

Shitter detected. Git gud fag.

Thats wonderful, the aim when i invade people is to waste the hosts time too.

Oh please I've got over 3000 hours in these games and I can beat them with one hand. I just can't stand invaders. How you can willingly go out of your way to ruin someone's day says a lot about you. All invaders are scum period

GOD you suck
Seriously jesus christ stop victimizing yourself, you're the fucking invader for crying out loud.

I seriously go into games like that and win 80% of the time or more because I come prepared and I don't just run in and die.
Get good before you try fighting others, fool.

Sure thing sweetie. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Pretty sure I should be saying that to you dumbass. Keep on being an asshole I'm sure it makes you feel like a big boy ruining everyone's time

I feel that invasion priority system in DS3 might have been implemented as means to discourage players from summoning too much and just facerolling the enemies and bosses. But the effect was the very opposite, leading to invaders being summoned into gangbang squads.

Stay mad fagboi.

Oh I'm not mad at all I personally love being invaded. Nothing better than wasting an assholes time. But seriously thanks for making the experience worse for everyone

Which souls game had the best online and PvP Cred Forums?

My vote is Dark Souls 1, but what do you say?

I'd say 1>2>3

Demons souls and ds2 have the best pvp. Ds1 is ruined by the broken backstab.

If youre willing to cheat in cracked orbs then 2. Basically 2>1>3.

I know this is Pewdiepie, but people actually do this, and for fun. It's actually cringeworthy.

You sound butthurt. Where did the invader touch you?

Knew you would sperg out. Isn't it just delicious when you min max full pvp shiters get destroyed by a random nobody with fashion armor just going through his game? I personally loved the fan mail afterwards. Bloodborne, having the most autistic community, gave me the best laughs. Vilebabies were hilarious.

>invaders before DS3
>"heh, welcome to dark souls kiddo. nothing personel, prepare to die. oh you think this is unfair? well, too bad, dark souls isn't fair. heh heh"

>invaders after DS3
>"WAAAH does this game expect me to play skillfully or something this isn't fair at all;____;!! why can't I just bully noobs like in the goold old days"

This picture shows exactly what is wrong with ds1 invasions.

This.

If you want to shit on triple ganks, git gud. You can still bring gear more powerful than the host until around sl80 or so.

Not like there's anything actually skillful in a 4 vs 1 - 2 fight situation where DS3 goes as far as to allow you to bring in friends with giant gaps in levels making "noob farming" be effectively the other way around; you can farm invaders just starting out in PvP simply summoning a friend out of your soul range that can two shot anyone in your range and watch.

Autism

you are half a year late. Nobody gives a shit about this game anymore

Yes, like this.

>"Host has.... the darkmoon blade"
Sure pal

Autism

i get that refernece user !!!! XDDDD

>go out of your way to ruin someone's day


Oh shut the fuck up. Ruin what, it's 3 minutes between bonfires at most. This is not a valid excuse, especially if you have that many hours on these games and know the areas and enemies inside out. That is not and excuse. Just admit you're a fucking pussy and can't pvp worth a damn

From tried, but they overcompensated.

Because PvP gear and PvE gear tends to be different, invaders geared for PvP would often be paired with hosts geared for PvE.

Blue Sentinels were a way to take the edge off that. Players not looking to PvP would join Way of Blue and that would summon a fully geared PvP combatant.

Giant Seeds tipped the balance completely by taking away the invader's main advantage, which was having the level enemies on their side.

Is it just me or are invaders always really shitty?

Ive never fought an invader and said "that was a good fight". It's always someone who has no idea what the fuck they're doing or some min/maxed retard that runs away when he gets low because he didn't get the perfect setup

Most people either make edgy builds to scare newcomers with or fun builds that give newbies a chance. Tryhards exist but they're rare, I've experienced.

Good times.
>cosplay invasions
>not fun
kys yourself

I love doing cosplay invasions.

What annoys me is when players respond to a cosplay invasion (using deliberately unoptimised gear) by darkmoon blading, green blossoming, etc.

I'm just trying to have fun and I'm not going to kill you with this shitty gear. Why waste your own time and souls?

Because your shitty gear is enough to slaughter him and his wife's son.

Now, if they had 3 phantoms and you were bare fisted with 120% weight and no rings, they might decide to have fun.

Welcome to Dark Souls 3.

>not joining the Blood Shades covenant

It's like you love being ganked.

They fucked up invasions by pandering to the "we only want honorduels/fightclubs and for hosts to have infinite advantage during invasions" crowd that came from DaS2.

You wanted more DaS2 pandering in the game? Congratulations, you got it. How does it feel?

>hosts to have infinite advantage during invasions" crowd that came from DaS2
>more DaS2 pandering in the game
Except DS3 is DS1 pandering.

Good. I don't like being invaded

Good thing I always play with a friend

They made invades as they should be

Invading was not meant to be used for duels as it was usually used before. The whole environment is with the invader who should utlizie on that, join mobs fighting, hide and surprise the host, not just walk infront of him, do a gesture and then begin to duel, that's what red soapstone is for.

*unzips seed*

>if it's not lore it's not pandering

DaS3's pvp is almost a total reskin of DaS2's pvp, only with the additions of invader healing, infinite orbs, and invaders being able to open doors. It retains the extreme bias towards invading ganks, huge host/phantom healing advantage, auto-summoning of blues on top of white count, weapon memory instead of SM, and the absolute cancer that is giant seeds.

You just don't want to admit that DaS3 inherited aspects from DaS2 because it shows how bad those aspects actually are

As an invader, I feel that my job is to piss off the host and waste his time more than anything else.

I kill him and he wastes his ember? Did my job.

He spends 10-15 minutes trying to kill me as I kill his phantoms over and over again and lead him in wild goose chases around the level? I did my job, he could have fought the boss 3x during that interval. Bonus points if I make him waste all his estus so he has to banish his phantoms, sit, and summon new ones before challenging the boss.

I will never understand why so many hosts choose to fight me instead of making a beeline for the boss door.

DS1
>can't be invaded in hollow form
>can't be invaded if the boss has been killed
>phantoms can heal (humanity)
DS2
>can be invaded in hollow form
>can be invaded if the boss has been killed
>phantoms can't heal
DS3
>can't be invaded in unkindled form
>can't be invaded if the boss has been killed
>phantoms can heal (estus)

You just don't want to admit that DS1, and are just parroting the "DS2 was shit" meme.
It had its own share of improvements over the other games in the series.
It's impossible to argue with biased people like you, who just plug their ears and turn away when you point out why they're wrong.

No you retard, the problem is that they tried to stop people abusing it.

The core concept of invasion is aligned with the design principles of dark souls, to keep the player on edge at all times, to make the feel like the world is alive and always dangerous.
Invasions are effectively mini-boss battles that can happen at any time and anywhere, against an opponent with real intelligence.

But the people started abusing it to specifically target and shit on players that had no chance of a fight, by using upgraded weapons and end-game equipment.

The japs didn't like that one bit. Not because it's not fair for the players being invaded, oh no, they don't like because it goes against their design philosophy.

The west and the east have very different design philosophies. In a western game, if a player starts doing something the game designer never even thought was possible it is classified as "emergent game-play", this is encouraged and instances of it are often worked into further iterations of the product.

However, in a Japanese game if a player isn't playing the game the way the designer wants them to it is seen as a design failure, and they will do everything in their power to ensure that you play their game the way they want you to in further iterations.

When you invade someone in Dark Souls 3, they don't want you to be a mini-boss anymore, they don't want things to be even, they want you to fail.

To summarize;
In Dark Souls 1 people used invasions to gank the undead burg. Fromsoft saw this and said "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. NO FAN ARROWED. YOU PRAY GEMU HOW WE WANT YU TO PRAY IT."
Resulting in Soul Memory in DaS2, and the shit-show that is DaS3 online.

tl;dr, japs are shit at anything remotely resembling multiplayer

i dont have a problem with gank squads
i have a problem with the rewards being shit

previousl you'd earn 100,000 souls for killing 3 or 4 scrubs
now you'll be lucky to earn 3000

why miyazaki why

just join a player made covenant :)

>The japs didn't like that one bit. Not because it's not fair for the players being invaded, oh no, they don't like because it goes against their design philosophy.
Pretty sure it's the former. The vast majority of Japs are huge casuals. Even among Dark Souls players. They don't want hardcore PvP in their games, they just want that feel-good moment for ganging up onto that icky invader neet who was trying to ruin their game.

>farming souls
Literally why? Invasions were never the prime source of soul income. You did pvp to get the covenant tokens to rank up, not to farm souls. It's always been like this.

>>can be invaded in hollow form
>>can be invaded if the boss has been killed
Both of these were shit mechanics because they detract from the core design concept that pvp is an opt-in system, and that getting invaded is a punishment for trying to cheese the game with more flasks/summons/HP/whatever

Not that it matters, because the invasion rate in DaS2 as a solo player without summons is outrageously low, to the point where your total invasions without popping fingers can be counted in the single digits in a complete 30-40 hour runthrough of Scholar

cus i like to buy things to make invasions funny, branches, bombs, stones and leave items behind, it ain't free to have fun

It's literally always more efficient to farm souls from pve mobs than pvp

>cherrypicking only the points that suit your argument, ignoring the countless other points that don't

You're a fucking idiot.

Dried finger should only allow you to summon 2 phantoms and the default summoning limit should be 1.

DS3 is far too easy as it is anyway compared to DS1, DS2 and BB.

You just said in your previous posts that DS3 PvP is skewed against the invader because it's "pandering to DS2 honorable duel PvP".
And now you're saying that DS2 is the opposite of what you've described. That wasn't very coherently of you.

Anyway, the problem with host waltzing through the game with multiple summons at all times isn't somehow DS2's fault. DS1 solo invasions only worked that way because the netcode was really fucking shit, and you had to spend ten minutes or more trying to summon anyone without it failing. DS2/3 summoning actually works the way the devs intended. You if you're implying ganking wasn't common in PvP hotspots in DS1, you must have not played that game for long then.

All in all DS2 PvP was quite different from DS3, which actually borrows more from DS1. I just want you people to learn to think critically before just shitting on DS2 for no reason. It's admittedly a weaker experience than DS1, but its PvP aspect was by no means as shit as you're trying to make it look. In fact, it did quite a few things better than the other games in the series.

Not that guy but if you think DaS3's pvp is anything like DaS1 you're retarded.
The only similarities are the two you listed, not being able to be invaded when unkindled and not being able to be invaded if the area boss is dead,

Because of the soft humanity system invaders could heal themselves by popping a humanity. 9/10 times this would be a full heal. The host could also use humanity to heal, but due to the mechanics of invasion it was far more likely for the invader to have a huge stock-pile of humanity to draw from, while the non-invading host will 9/10 times just use their Estus flask.

In practice this usually gave a huge healing advantage to the invader, as they could just pop humanities forever while the host would probably run out of Estus after 5-10 sips, not to mention that humanities could not be blocked by Lloyd's Talisman.

You could also be invaded solo. In DaS3 it is pretty much impossible to invade someone unless they already have phantom helping them, or they want you to invade them.

In DaS1 as long as you were in human form you were fair game for invasion, and the person invading you will likely have a gear advantage, because you could level your character for the desired gear and the area in which you wanted to invade in, then blitz through the game and get maxed out end-game gear.

But in DaS3 you can't do this, you can get end game or boss weapons, but you can't upgrade that shit past a certain point or you'll be locked out of invading certain areas by the new invasion system. No more spanking lowbies.

So lets count up the difference shall we.

DS1
>invader will have a healing advantage due to stockpiled humanity
>invader will have a gear advantage due to weapon upgrade not being factored into match making
>Can invade solo hosts

DS3
>Host always has a healing advantage, due to halved estus for phantoms
>Gear will be of similar level
>Host WILL have phantom fuckbois backing him up, as well as cancer like giant seeds

It may have been an underlying influence, but I promise you, japanese game devs reeeeeeeeally don't like it when you don't play their games the way they think you're supposed to.

In DaS 1 I had a character that did nothing but invade scrubs in the undead parish and he had 5 million souls at one point.

Wow, way to not have reading comprehension.

DaS2 panders to arenafriends by gutting the invasion rate against solo players (even though it could technically happen at any time which is dumb), virtually guaranteeing gankfights while invading, and forcing players to farm the arena for orbs. In addition, blues (as obnoxious as they are) literally don't work in DaS2 because muh arena.

DaS3s invasion mechanics have the same gankfight-biased invasion selection algorithm as in DaS2, I've ran around the whole game solo embered and only got invaded a handful of times. In DaS1, this was not the case, all human-form players were weighted equally regardless of phantoms. In addition, DaS3 inherits DaS2s giant seed system and blueberry system (which actually function now, yay?). It's all designed expressly to hold the hosts hand as much as possible and make it easy to win.

In DaS1, DeS, and even BB this was not the case. Even in BB with the HP penalty that invaders got, the gem system allowed them to compensate with the ability to 2shot hosts. Only DaS2 and DaS3 go out of their way to give invaders the middle finger, thanks Tanimura.

You could get 5 mil souls in half the time by farming Phalanx in the painted world with silver covetous ring + symbol of avarice

Why is everyone so butthurt by giant seed? Are you guys really that dependent on that mob advantage? Can't you take on the host and his friends by yourselfs? I thought invaders were to be the bosses of dark souls, the ultima 'git gud faggot'. Instead I see a bunch of babies whining the monsters won't do their job for them anymore.

Well if you do that long enough you're bound to end up with a shitload of souls. Not like that couldn't happen in DS3 after doing nothing but invading at pontiff's backyard.

If that was the case I would just sprint around and lead them on a wild goose chase while they try to kill me, I would go through dangerous areas and cause a bit of chaos.

OP is a shitty faggot who thinks the only way to win is hit the host till they die.

I think people would be less annoyed if it wasn't their ONLY advantage against hosts.

It feels like the game got made around the Mound Maker covenant because there everything works fine

>get prioritized for invasions with lots of participants
>can attack every phantom
>people don't know how to react to you because you theoretically could side with anyone and get your reward

It's a fun covenant - Easily the best in the game.
But i think designing the game around it ruined it for the rest.

>A main gameplay feature put into the game is ruining the "fun" of others
>Coming from people who co-op bosses to trivialize them

If you don't want to be ambushed by people who have the advantage over you, you shouldn't be playing a Souls game in the first place. This series LITERALLY wasn't built for you, and you are a blight to those who liked the original conception of the series.

I'm doing my first run blind of DS3 playing solo Kindled as much as I can. I just did Anor Londo and what the fuck, I as somebody who never summons blues for help or uses tree seeds I was getting THREE (3) phantoms on several occasions after me. Is there some shitty invasion covenant there, I go sick of it all and begrudgingly went way of the blue for Anor because getting ganked by three phantoms and silver fukkbois isn't fun.

The host might have had a stockpile of humanity from farming rats, or the invader was too lazy to farm it, for all we know. It's just your assumption, and estus/humanity popping animations were usually a free backstab in DS1.

As for estus in DS3, since you seem to be talking mostly about low level twink invasions, it's very possible to have as good, or actually better healing capabilities than the host in DS3. Sure, you have halved estus charges, but with fully upgraded flask, you might have as many or more estus charges, even halved, and also heal more per sip.

And you can invade/ be invaded as a solo player in DS3 too. Of course the odds are you will get a host with phantom(s) in their world, because how the system works. But as I said, it's ONLY due to how poorly summoning worked in DS1. If connectivity was on the level of DS3, you'd see the very same picture in DS1, when everyone would have summoned two phantoms with them throughout the entire game.

Really, the only significant difference is - you can't have twinks with maxed out gear anymore.

Giant seeds are the best, I round up a bunch of mobs and then run them into the host, only a retard would try fight them normally just to give the host free souls.

I know coop is built into the experience but the fact that someone has to point out the fact they beat the game without summons is hilarious to me.

A friend and i played the whole game together a couple of times just to get invaded a lot but the odds were so much in our favor we decided to sabotage our builds the second time around to give invaders a chance, it didn't get a lot better really.

You are invading, you're basically trying to cuck the host out of his gameplay. You shounl'd expect any niceties or kindness.

Even playing as an invader in DaS3 all deaths are my fault. The trick is to always be stealthy and engage on your own terms instead of rushing in and trying to 1v4 like an idiot.

Yes, lower Anor Londo has one of those area covenants attached to it.

If you used a summon at any point in the game, you didn't beat the game.

>I round up a bunch of mobs and then run them into the host
>implying that this works out on a consistent basis

>the fact the fact
i forgot to erase that, fuck

what does Cred Forums think of Peeve's bloodshades covenant?

I think you guys misunderstand.

If you cannot beat 2 or 3 guys with the stealth advantage it simply means that you suck and need to improve yourself.

The main problem with DS3s PvP is how the game is designed.
People only play around in Pontiffs backyard because its one of the few areas in the game where you can actually invade someone.

Try it somewhere else and you will most likely get summoned the moment the host and his 2-3 buddies enter the bossfog wall.
Tried to invade people before the Twin Princes again and 9 out of 10 invasions started with me getting thrown back immediately because the boss battle started.

Yeah, because taking your time and watching a player run to the fog gate with 3 others up his ass is the best strategy for invading.

Just admit you're trying to make the best with an absolutely shitty system, user, but that doesn't mean people need to suck From's dick because you manage to squeeze an occasional kill from time to time.

oh of course its hit or miss but it's funny as hell to see them pop the seed and then cause a massive aggro shitstorm.

DS3 did not borrow the higher invasion rate against host with phantoms from DS2 because it wasn't a thing back then. It's DS3's own unique mechanic. More players had summons in DS2 simply because it didn't fail 90% of the time like in DS1.
And DS2 was the only time blue actually worked. Even people like you can't argue that Darkmoon is not a dead covenant, and anything but a laughing stock in the other two games.

They didn't fuck up exactly, they just casualized the game in every aspect and normies love it.

>Tried to invade people before the Twin Princes again
I don't understand why people even bother, that bridge is so shot you're pretty much guaranteed to come to the party late.

Invade at Grand Archives, people.

the time where I can see this being REALLY mean is if you're invading Archdragon Peak, and leading all the manserpents to the hosts
>how terrifying

>stealth advantage

Yes, because a giant fucking notification sent to the Host that your ass is around is fucking stealthy as shit, user.

>pro-gankfight invasion algorithms didn't exist in DaS2
haha wew, that's quite the historical revisionism you got there.

>Blue Sentinels worked in DaS2
"no"
they got invasions even less frequently than Dorkmoons did in DaS3

What if I summoned a dark spirit?

I personally like to go find mimics and give them a slap to wake them up.

You need to one shoot the host for that to work. Healing is to powerful, traveling the fog is totally unfair and seed of the giant is retarded. The latter should only be allowed when the host is alone just to prevent invaders being cheap with mobs.

I still win probably 80% of the time. At least the majority. Failing that not getting killed is still preferable to dying.

What If I bent you over and screamed at your asshole?

leading black knights/ ghru facefuckers in the crucifixion woods would be pretty nasty as well

>will never get to shove Gwyndolin's finger at Yorshka or tell her the Pope is already dead
>will never get to shove eyes in Irina's face either
>or save Greirat in Lothric
Fucking Miyazaki

>Demon's Souls PVP issues include stunlock city and grass
>From decides to finish the series with PVP issues including unpunishable rollspam and estus
7 years and 4 games later they've learnt nothing.

>implying that it's even possible to save Greirat in Lothric
NOBODY returns after climbing the wall!

>implying that Irina even deserves eyes
Eygon was right

>invade in the GA as MountMaker
>host is goofing around somewhere on the lower levels and hiding
>activates a seed after 10 minutes
>wait for him to go up
>never happens
>get invaded 4 times by Darkmoon faggots
>first two quit after a minute because they couldn't find me
>killed the last two after 40 minutes of sitting around

So in reality, it's more like 30% of the time, with a perfectly leveled character built with wide sweeping attacks, or bleed spam right?

Demon's Souls and DaS2

BB and DaS1 terrible online. DaS3 is bad but not quite terrible yet

those are a little tricky because of how fast they move, mimics are easier because of the slow startup gives you time to run away, Cathedral knights are pretty good too, my absolute favourite is to wake up the gargoyles in the profaned capital and run them into the host.

Eygon was just a massive tsundere, who only got the nerve to show it when she's dead, or driven mad by you being a cunt and making her read some dark shit

I love how super buttflustered invaders got over invasions prioritising hosts with phantoms, when they spent 2 games camping out in groups of enemies. But that was "meta" I guess.

The swamp and Anor Londo are auto invasion zones, although you'll never get invaded in the swamp.

Now that the dust has settled, I think that we can ALL agree that this mans' actions were justified

>haha wew
>less frequently than Dorkmoons did in DaS3
As I said, it's impossible to have a civilized discussion with you people. You are the one who's doing historical revisionism here by ignoring the facts and trying to present your personal delusions as truth.
Oh well, I can't stop you from believing that, if you were never open to other people's arguments in the first place.

You don't even need a perfect character. Most people are idiots and using force near a ledge can kill unaware hosts quickly. More than a few idiots will chase you to their deaths while you have silvercat ring on.

Most are because most invade for fun

I'm pretty good at invading only because I've done it so much and I try pretty hard to win with decent success. Most people try invading before they have a grasp of how different PvP is to PvE

No you fucking dense faggot that is the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT. It's supposed to have been a person INVADING YOU. Hence why they have called it INVASIONS since fucking DEMON'S SOULS. The problem is that shitters tried turning the bullshit into a pvp experience when that was only suppose to maybe happen depending on circumstances. As in:

>you invaded this guy 3 times and every duel you had was epic
>you both have a respect for one another even despite not being able to communicate so maybe on the fourth duel you guys bow instead

The intention I suppose though ultimately doesn't matter due to the nature of these games. The concept was always going to be misinterpreted and abused. The thing is From should have (and likely knew) that things would get abused. Rather than embrace their fantastic and innovative as fucking hell idea though they kept trying to ruin it as much as possible in the subsequent games. Look at how easy it is to co-op and invade in DeS and relatively early on in the game. Then contrast it with DaS. Then look at what they did in DaS2 and so on. Each new game it seems they try desperately to support the co-op babies while making invasions as unfun as possible. They don't want to go overboard with it though or else the entire FUCKING CONCEPT OF THEIR SERIES CORE SINCE DEMON'S SOULS will be lost forever. So instead of getting rid of it they keep trying to tweak it for the "better" when in reality they just keep fucking with what worked well to begin with.

The entire point of these games has been ultimately lost and that was inevitably going to happen the more popular the series got.

To make a comparison for the sake of discussion, Royce Gracie's vision of UFC is far different then what it became. He even says he ultimately didn't like the direction UFC went in.
This is very correct as well.

I hate to go on that tirade Cred Forums. I just had to.

>Eygon was just a massive tsundere
is "tsundere" moonspeak for "emotionally abusive partner?"

You've gotta invade in the actual Grand Archives, not on the bridge. It's the only place actually worth invading.

>DS1 has fun invasions but the online is fucking shit
>DS2 has fun invasions as well but SM fucks it up and everyone only wants to do business at the lava bridge
>DS3 is a gank festival with everyone only hanging around Pontiffs place
>BB PvP is terrible in general with everyone healing instantly and heaving near unlimited supplies of it
>Demon Souls is dead

From had so many chances and they still haven't made a game with very good online.

he wasnt a partner, he was her bodyguard/babysitter, he got stuck with protecting her and he resented her a bit for it so he would shit talk her.

Undead settlement is great too, too bad it's meant for low levels.

>resented her a bit
He's happy to sit on his ass all day while she rots in a jail cell 5 feet away from him.

>Really, the only significant difference is - you can't have twinks with maxed out gear anymore.

Ok you're clearly fucking retarded.

99% of invaders had a massive stockpile of humanities, it's not an assumption, it's the way things were. Invaders received humanity for winning and when it was entirely possible to accidentally 1-shot half the people you run into invaders naturally accumulated humanity. If you wanted to have a shot when invading at higher levels you went and farmed that shit if you needed to unless you were a fucking retard.

I talked about twink invasions because they are the reason for Fromsoft butchering the multiplayer in every subsequent souls game. They are by no means indicative of the actual pvp experience of the game, as low level invasions are usually confined to a single area of the game. The only place in DaS3 where it is possible for the invader to have better healing capabilities than the host is the high wall, and even then the host WILL have a phantom or 2 with him, resulting in more healing to contend with.

>it's (invading a host with multiple phantoms) ONLY due to how poorly summoning worked in DS1. If connectivity was on the level of DS3, you'd see the very same picture in DS1

Retard.
DS1's connectivity was worsed, but DS3's ACTIVELY FUCKING PRIORITIZES WORLDS WITH PHANTOMS. THE MECHANICS ARE DESIGNED AROUND ENSURING YOU RUN INTO THIS SHIT, IN DS1 INVADING A WORLD WHERE THE HOST HAS PHANTOMS WAS JUST A BY-PRODUCT OF THE SUMMONING MECHANICS.
In DS1 you'd encounter solo hosts about as often as you encounter hosts with phantoms. In DS3 the host will have phantoms in EVERY FUCKING INVASION. Maybe you'll get a solo host once in a blue fucking moon, and even then they've probably been using dried fingers.

Thank you for indicating you know jack shit about what you're talking about.

>Each new game it seems they try desperately to support the co-op babies while making invasions as unfun as possible.
Has it ever occurred to you, that's maybe that's what the devs intended to in the first place? And that it only worked that way in the early games, because they failed to implement it properly?

Wow, isolated incidents where you were matched up with a retards who had no idea what they were doing really proves this game's invasion system isn't hot garbage. Thanks for showing me the light, user.

after fighting him I think it is clear that he would rather be crushing heads than babysitting, considering that he doesn't say nice things about Irina he's probably begrudgingly sitting on his ass all day.

And just in case you and other people didn't get the point or do not want to read a tldr.

The concept was meant to strike a delicate balance between invasions and co-op. The balance of power has leaned increasingly towards co-op with each new game. To the point where you have threads like the one OP made since the co-op guys have an extremely lopsided side now. The balance of power is swayed too much in the host and co-op favor.

Also the games mechanics were suppose to always be more asymmetrical if that makes sense. The entire concept wasn't built on fairness. Otherwise you would get shit like an FPS with TDM on a symmetrical map. What From made was an innovative multiplayer that they clearly don't know how to handle well with each new game.

>I tldr again but fuck you anyways it only takes less than a minute to read unless you have ADD fags

>min-maxed autists with OP gear crying because they can't have easy kills anymore

Sounds like someone needs to git gud.

Not him, but you're probably right. One of the main reasons the Souls games became popular in the first place was a total fluke on FromSoft's part, which would explain why every subsequent game has gotten worse as worse the harder they try to "fix" it.

>literally never ever ever get invaded while playing solo in DaS2, even though it should be able to happen randomly at any time
>summon a phantom and immediately get invaded
>every time
>never ever fucking find anyone as a Blue Sentinel because nobody wants to wear the scrub ring
>have to buy/farm cracked blue eye orbs to invade the guilty (lol)
>there's no whole blue eye orb at all
please tell me more about how you're full of shit

No it just turned out that you as an invader had the advantage in previous games and without those advantages you can't survive.

Nope this was never the intention. This is the result of fan feedback and possibly the publisher (that's Namco) forcing From's hand a bit here. Of course they aren't going to tell you the later though.

I'll keep this post brief.

Goddamn you're retarded.
Yes, that is correct that DS3 prioritizes the host with phantoms over solo hosts. I never said otherwise.
My original point was, that this DS3's biggest flaw is of its own design, and by no means DS2's fault, like the other(?) user said it was. Because it did not exist in DS2.

And if connectivity in DS1 was on DS3's level, you would see pretty much the same thing, higher priority or not. Because there would be no drawbacks from going human and summoning help, if summoning worked as good as it does in DS3.

>Has it ever occurred to you, that's maybe that's what the devs intended to in the first place?
No, because miyazako made 3 games where invaders had a significant advantage killing power (DeS, DaS1, and BB), and this only got scaled back when Namco brought up shitters whining about them and their summons being butchered by reds

Please, tell me these supposed "advantages" invaders had.

The thing is you can't possibly have OP gear anymore in DS3, AND you still get ganksquads waiting for you.
Just weapon memory would be more than enough. The algorithm that sends the invader into the world with twenty fucking rainbow colored phantoms to his doom was completely unnecessary.

>People actually bought DS3 day one

lel

knew the invasions were going to be shit so i'm just waiting for a good sale for it

They implemented it fine in Demon's Souls.

You want an honorable duel? Go fight behind pontiff. Invading is only fun if you're outnumbered.

>he plays ds only for invasions
>he plays ds only for invasion but waits for a sale when at that point the activity will already be diminished drastically compared to early days

>people actually bought DS3 when the multiplayer the most active
>I'm just waiting for when I won't be able to find anyone to invade

None of these whiny faggots want an honourable duel. They want the advantage again.

>Invading is only fun if you're outnumbered.

I'm a masochist and I don't find invading in DS3 fun.

>everyone that goes human does so to summon help

You're retarded.
People had to go human is they wanted to kindle their bonfires, and other just don't like looking like crispy bacon. The soft/hard humanity system also support going human, in that you'd gain soft humanity at random, providing more opportunities for the player to do so with a less harsh penalty.

And of course DaS3 was influenced by 2, trying to argue that it wasn't is just stupidity.
DaS2's multiplayer was built around shitting on invaders, instead of abandoning this in DaS3 they tried to do the very same thing, just with a different approach.
Factoring weapon upgrade levels is almost as cancerous as soul memory.

Invaders never necessarily had the "advantage" though. In Demon's they got a slight power boost I believe (if I remember correct) but at the cost of lower health. The host at any point can summon for help or run to the boss. More a less the same for Dark only with covenants thrown in the mix.

These assholes should have built on what worked in Demon's and Dark.

>I'm a masochist and I don't find invading in DS3 fun.
Sooo, that means invading in DS3 isn't masochistic enough?

>he thinks i want to invade in a game with a shit invasion system

dat post purchase rationalization

nah, i'll just skip it like i did for DS2. With the casualization of invasions i just play dark souls for the single player

DaS1:
>WTF I got invaded by some guy with +10 gear outside the parish! That's so unfair
>WTF I got invaded whist I'm fighting silver knights. I don't have a summon I'm outnumbered!
>Deal with it faggot, invasions aren't fair
DaS3:
>WTF I invaded a host and 3 phantoms this isn't fair
>WTF the host popped a seed now I can't hide behind enemies this is so unfair!

It's very easy to just use a seed.
And since the spawning system can be a bit fucked up at times and can spawn you behind (relative to the boss fog) or right in front of the host so you can't really always ambush, especially with obscuring ring being worse off than before.
And it's not like obscuring ring was even that airtight since you still got revealed by trivial shit that the game forgot to account for.

Fluke seems like an accurate description.
Fromsoft doesn't really seem to be capable of picking out what they did right in previous games.

>Factoring weapon upgrade levels is almost as cancerous as soul memory.
"I want to be able to 1shot hosts in the Undead Settlement with GC cast from a +10 pyro flame haha gg skrubs :^)" -- (you)

You're retarded.
If they used humanity for kindling a bonfire they'd have no reason NOT to summon. Why risk losing humanity being invaded by an overgeared red, when you can have 20 flasks and actually working summons.

And I had no problems invading in DS2. It appears your impression of DS2 shitting on invaders is caused simply by you being bad.

>one area of the game
>versus the entire game

what a comparison

also

>having difficult with fucking SILVER KNIGHTS

haha

oh wow

I have a feeling you either moved the goalposts or we both interpreted each others comments wrong but whatever I guess

>build up a Regen Build ~SL50
>+3 notched whip, +3 butcher knife and +3 executioner gs
>decide to invade at farron keep, right before the Abyss Watchers
>after a while it finds someone
>searched every squared inch of the area
>host nowhere to be found
>the bonfire isn't lit
>wut
>suddenly the cutscene when you lit one of the goblets in the swamp
>it's the first one
>mfw

Then why the fuck did you even bring invasions in this conversation in the first place?

I'm not bad at videogames, it's the game's fault!

>Because it did not exist in DS2.
In DaS2, the game's matchmaking maintains a list of all invasion-eligible players within the invader's SM. Because of how invasions work in DaS2, this is essentially a list of every online player within the invader's SM bracket.

When invading, the matchmaking system proceeds down the list, starting at the "top," until it finds the first available host for you to invade, then it sends you to them. HOWEVER, this list is ordered. Hosts with phantoms shoot to the top of the list, while solo hosts are at the bottom. The only way to invade a solo player in DaS2 (and indeed DaS3 as well), is if all the available ganksquads are already occupied by other invaders, and thus unavailable.

This is similar to how being in the WoW pushed you to the bottom of the invasion queue in DaS1, but more extensive in scope.

>SL50
>whip
>decide to invade at farron keep

This. Casuals think that 2 phantom would save their ass most of the time so they don't focus on anything. Usually I don't even need to kill them myself for they already let the mobs rape their assholes.

>invaders had no advantage in DaS1 or BB

>DaS1
no mob aggro
99 humanity

>BB
no mob aggro
27.5% cursed gems

because its the reason why i'm waiting for this ruined series to go on sale

i put over 700 hours into the original dark souls, and only mustered 200 with dark souls 2 because of how piss poor awful its invasions and pvp was

Dark Souls 2 is a good single player game, but a shit multiplayer game, which is why I'm in no rush to buy it at full price.

>Dark Souls 2 is a good single player game, but a shit multiplayer game
holy shit what

i actually like das2 but never have i seen one man be so wrong. are you posting from bizarro Cred Forums?

Do you have a source on this?

>Dark Souls 2 is a good game
>Dark Souls 2 apologists still trying to defend their shitty game

>because of how piss poor awful its invasions and pvp was
>Dark Souls 2 is a good single player game, but a shit multiplayer game
You got that backwards.

It's time for you to apologize.

Dark souls 2 had the best pvp of them all you fucking retard

no

good luck finding official documentation on practically anything regarding DaS2 or DaS3, nobody seems to give a fuck about maintaining the wikis or doing anything but posting screenshots of various item descriptions.

It's maddening

yes

Just wait a bit, if the host has that many phantoms you are also getting reinforcements

@353266771

Here's my main gripe with DS3 invasions. They just aren't fun. You're either a faggot summon bro with a gang squad of 3+ attackers fighting a single invader, or you're the invader using a broken two hit kill set. Skill hardly play into the fight at all, and it's all about trying to create something broken rather than creating something fun.

>Another red phantom appears
>He attacks you when you meet

>most build variety of any souls game, even with a shitty dump stat
>widest range of viable weaponry, including gimmick weapons like bonefist
>mages are viable, magic is good, but not overpowered
>lower speed leading to more methodical combat
>rolls actually cost stamina
>invaders block estus use for phantoms

Dark Souls 2 had really good pvp, then inevitably soul memory would turn the good pvp into shit

It's a horrible system

It's fun as fuck for me because I get to play metal gear solid with the host and his buddies.

Dont ever reply to me again

all wrong

elaborate

Just go cheap as well and lure enemies you'll eventually beat that bitch ass nigger as well.

>pop giant seed while wearing blue bitch covenant in Aldritch fuckzone
>Dried Finger
>Chameleon almost out of bounds
>Invaders fucking dorkmoon retards and silver knight archers fucking invaders mayhem

>dark souls 2 typical fight
>oponent just stand away from you doing "mind games" running around like an idiot
> always starts an attack with a running attack.
>Missed? back to the "mind games"

Yeah dark souls 2 had good pvp for sure. Every fucking fight I just stand there waiting for these faggot to stop running around like retards so we can actualy fight.

No human language has words that could describe stupidity of these players.

I invaded a guy once and his two gang squad buddies. They utterly spanked me. So I ran away and used a white branch to blend into the crowd. I noticed that they also activated the seed, which made me glad as fuck that I didn't try hiding in any mobs. I watched them as they broke literally every single object in the areas until they finally reached me and killed me. Those fuckers must've really, really hated invaders.

>dark souls 3 typical fight
>oponent just stand away from you doing "mind games" running around like an idiot
>always starts an attack with a parry
>Missed? back to the "mind games"

The onus is on the invader to figure it out. I see invaders wreck hosts 1v3 all the time, mainly because hosts are bad/unprepared whereas invaders are twinked out parrykings and stocked with consumables.

If you wanna invade, ya gotta git gud. Even if you cant, run around in circles until a mound maker shows up to help you. 9 times out of 10 they will help you.

>Not just invading as purple
Go ahead and run every time I kill your butt buddies bitchboi, I win no matter who I kill.

>inevitably soul memory would turn the good pvp into shit
>I can't keep shitting on people whio have no idea how souls pvp works and incressiig the length of my e-peen

good

souls had the most cancerous player base when it comes to pvp

even worse then assfaggots

no

That's because most players are faggots and don't like fun.
I did a co-op run with a friend, and here what we did.
>summon each other
>use the dried fingers
>proceed through the zone normally
That is until the phantoms of all possible colors invade and the absolute chaos ensues.

Pretty much the reason why graping it up is the only viable pvp option.

ok

Going red is viable. It just isn't as easy.

do you complain when you get hit by a red shell in mario kart? Gee we're sorry for using one of the feature of the game if you don't like it play offline or change game.
You fucking cry babies are what ruined this game. I bet you run all the way back to the bonfire every time an invader kill your phantoms. You then spam summon and run away like a little faggot until your phantom is back and then...Surprised! you suddenly got newfound courage to fight when it's a 2v1.

invaders are redirected towards worlds with more phantoms. i've tested it. one playthrough i didn't summon anyone ever and barely got invaded 3 times by reds, once in irythill, once in the cathedral, once in the archives. farron wolves never invaded me, and i also got 2 invasions from aldrich faithful

with the other character i summoned for every boss and every harder area and invasions were much more common, up to one or even two-three per zone. of course, i deliberatly stayed embered

why the fuck did they implement this retarded system? i have no idea

>not making a Raw DSA+2 at sl20 with NG+ and ++ Rings to stomp on ganks
Its like you people hate fun

They didn't. Invading is not the same as dueling, it's not supposed to be fair. You are supposed to do everything you can to fuck with someone's game and they're going to do everything they can to stop you.

So in short, git gud faggot.

>tfw host keep summoning and you kill the phantoms twice

the CoD audience who complained it was too hard for their instant reward mindset.
Money spoke harder it seems.

Souls games PvP has always been shit. I don't understand why people play it so much.

>Luck will never be viable.

Outplay them maybe?