Party cRPGs

>all the hate 2 gets
There is no hate, there are only a bunch of autistic gay memers spouting their shit opinions on Cred Forums. The game was received exceptionally well everywhere and has a strong following even in this cesspit.

>items are still bad, loot is still terrible
Wait, so crafted items are king again and you can literally ignore all the loot in the game and have the best equipment for your level by spending literal pocket change on crafting materials?

Holy shit, is there a more incompetent studio than Larian? They're either literally too retarded to learn from their mistakes, or too arrogant to acknowledge them.

I've never played this genre and want to start. I was planning on starting with baldur's gate but I've heard it's basically a 50 hour intro and doesn't get good until baldur's gate 2. How accurate is that? Should I start with something else instead, and if so what?

Between RTwP and pure turn based which is considered to have more tactical depth and therefore more fun?

Torment.

>How accurate is that?
It's true. Just start with BG2 and play through BG1 later, if you want. There's barely any character exposition and characterization in BG1, so you won't be missing much when it comes to character backgrounds.

>Should I start with something else instead
You should definitely start with BG2 to maximize your chances of not dropping your first games in the genre and losing all interest. After you're done with BG2, either check BG1 or the Icewind Dale games.

>Between RTwP and pure turn based which is considered to have more tactical depth and therefore more fun?
Fun is highly subjective, but when it comes to tactical depth, the best party best RPG out there is Temple Of Elemental Evil and it's turn based. If you decide to check it out, install the Circle of Eight fix pack.

>What are you playing?
Nothing, actually.
I still have yet to start D:OS, though. I'm afraid it will eat up my free time for a month.

>What are you looking forward to?
I'm going to back WL3, first time I'm ever backing a game.

I'd watch it, but after just a minute already I can't stand his pronounciation.

Just a friendly reminder that Infinity Engine games and Fallout don't define the entire genre.

he's russian so he's doing the best he can

Just a friendly reminder that anything pre-Fallout is nothing more than a simple dungeon crawler or h&s, not a RPG.

Just a friendly reminder this opinion is reddit tier and the quickest way to spot an entry level pleb.

div: OS was fucking fantastic

I bet you have never heard of the Ultima games, eh?

Look at this cunt who doesn't know Ultima.

Just a friendly reminder, that mongoloids, who cannot tell an adventure game with stats from a RPG belong on reddit along with their lack of knowledge on the genre.

Any game that does not feature multi-solution quests with alternative solution availability being dependent on your character generation and advancement choices (i.e. skill/stat/perk distribution) is a game of X genre with RPG elements, not a RPG.

It's a nice h&s game, what of it?

Expansion when?

isometric or 3d?
rtwp or turn based?

I should finish that game sometimes. Haven't played in a while I wonder if my build still works?

Considering the base game took like 7 years and he's been updating it since it came out. Not for like 2-3 years.

...

isometric
both

I really don't mind isometric, pillars had some stellar looking environments, but it was inconsistent, some parts simply looked bland and boring, especially the main city.

Play BG1 or Neverwinter Nights expansions if you want to get into D&D games. BG1 is solid and it helps you understand 2nd edition AD&D rules.

Might and magic 6 or Grimrock 2 if you want to get into blobbers then move on to Wizardry 8

Fallout or Torment if you want to get into dialog tree navigators

Make sure to read the manual before playing all these games they often have little story tidbits or important info not presented ingame.

I am playing through Wasteland 2 and it is pretty fun, i can see wasteland 3 being pretty good if they manage to improve on the second one. The setting also sound pretty sweet.

I really hope tyranny will be good. The setting looks really interesting and it was the setting that held PoE back the most in my opinion.

Explain this to me. I couldn't figure out how to put enchantments on my weapons which, to me, made loot forever a better option. The only enchantments I could figure out were like +2 to strength and poison or tenebrium damage.

I had a 5 in blacksmithing, crafting, and tenebrium.

What did I miss that you guys all seem to get?

>but it was inconsistent
a very few pre-rendered games had consistent overall art direction(fallout 1, torment)
but still i just love the look of the pre-rendered backgrounds much more than anything 3d
just look how terrible and unappealing wasteland 2 looks compared to poe or even underrail

Played enhanced edition btw if it matters.

You can enhance your weapon's raw damage via the whetstone. Then you can apply +stat enchantments on your weapon via a tortured soul. After that, you can add elemental enchantments via appropriate items (i.e. Joshua's Spice adds shitloads of fire damage to a weapon). Congratulations, now you have the most powerful weapon in the game for your level, making all loot literally useless.

Oh, and I forgot Tenebrium bars, since I didn't even use them and I STILL didn't find a single weapon in the game that could match my hand-crafted ones.

So I didn't miss anything. I guess I just put a lot more value on have 3 25% chance to knockdown, set on fire, and stun per hit as well as + 1 to constitution, body building, and two handed.

To each his own I guess. Thank for the answer though.

Bad luck maybe. I got a two handed sword of holy fire, or something like that, and I never found a better weapon. I think it was a lvl 16 weapon or something.

>I'm going to back WL3, first time I'm ever backing a game.
>Wasteland 3
What the shit, this is a thing that's happening? I did actually back WL2 for a decent amount, not a super high tier or anything but not hyper cheap either, and I did register an account with them too and enjoyed the game alright and this is the first I've heard of WL3. I'm honestly kind of surprised that they didn't just send an email to backers of the previous one at least, it seems like we'd be the kind of people who might back them again or would at least appreciate a heads up. Maybe something is planned in the next few days but still weird it's on a ton of random gaming sites yesterday now that I look but no direct communications at all. I'm not going to tell them how to run their business or anything and I guess in one respect not immediately hitting up previous people for more money might be kind of admirable even but still, at least a simple "hey guys, you liked us enough to give money before, we're doing a new thing in case you're interested" might have been nice.

>3 25% chance to knockdown, set on fire, and stun per hit
These are literally useless, because enemies have bodybuilding scores that nullify any chances of you actually inflicting these effects on regular hits. In later parts of the game, you need 150% and more "chance" of inflicting negative status effects to inflict them reliably.

>1 to constitution, body building, and two handed.
Tortured soul gives you +2 strength and dexterity bonuses, that overshadow anything that can be found on loot items, even the purple ones.

Well, the previous backers are from KS, sending a KS update for a fig project may look a little bad for them

Yeah, it was announced a day or two ago.

>I got a two handed sword of holy fire, or something like that, and I never found a better weapon
That's because you never tried to actually craft one with all enhancements applied. A crafted weapon will ALWAYS have more raw damage and more fire damage as well as a bigger strength and dexterity bonus.

>I'm honestly kind of surprised that they didn't just send an email to backers of the previous one at least
the crowdfunding campaign is not even starded

And don't forget Tenebrium on top of everything, I always forget Tenebrium.

Agree to disagree. My on hit stats hit pretty often especially on Wolgraff who had like 6 different afflictions that had a 25% chance of inflicting each attack.

Plus, it sounds like the differences are extremely minor. I didn't sit down and crunch the numbers but I doubt what you crafted is that much better than what you found or you had extremely shit luck. Nothing I could craft was ever much better than what I found even with max stats and I usually ended up preferring what I found since I could add all that shit to my loot weapons anyway while maintaining all the unique stats that only come with loot weapons.

Can't say I really see your point or complaint. If anything, I would complain that you couldn't really create anything magnificent regardless of your blacksmith or crafting scores.

Not really. I added a tormented soul to it, tenebrium, and it already came with several other enhancements. It was much better than anything I could ever craft despite trying.

> In later parts of the game, you need 150% and more "chance" of inflicting negative status effects to inflict them reliably.
What is Drain Willpower and Lower Resistances

>that overshadow anything that can be found on loot items, even the purple ones.
Or you can take good purples that had +dex or strength and add tortured soul to them making them even better even if they had slightly lower damage than a crafted

>My on hit stats hit pretty often especially on Wolgraff who had like 6 different afflictions that had a 25% chance of inflicting each attack.
Stop lying, they don't, unless by "pretty often" you mean 1 in a 100. The chance to inflict a negative status effect on hit is reduced by enemy bodybuilding and willpower scores and enemies can have pretty high bodybuilding/willpower scores on tactician. With bodybuilding scores as high as 5, your 25% will actually become 1-5% against enemies that are something more than trash that can be steamrolled with literally zero effort while wielding a toothpick.

>Plus, it sounds like the differences are extremely minor.
Give me some time, I'll show you the swords I've crafted minus the Tenebrium enhancements, that I've never used.

I played on normal so if you're comparing it to higher difficulties, it isn't me lying so much as you experiencing something different. Plus, they are chance related. Maybe I just got a lot more lucky than you did. It's statistically possible. I can only relate my experience to you.

I'd love to see what you crafted. Maybe I was doing it all wrong somehow. I was dying to create a super weapon but the guides for this game are pretty bare especially when it came to crafting or blacksmithing.

Replaying bg1, Sarevok is waiting for me in the temple of Bhaal, i wanted to do the Totsc content before but once again I can't be bothered
>What are you looking forward to?
Most of the game in your pic but I don't expect much desu

And yet despite all these flaws it still has the best combat of any CRPG.

Nah, Temple of Elemental Evil is better

>3E game
>best anything

>thinks torment beta was good
>dislikes divinity os2

how the fuck can one man have such shit opinions? the torment beta was trash.

>the torment beta was trash.
elaborate

So any recommendations for party crpg's? The only one me and my buddy have really gone through was divinity original sin ee. Any you guys would recommend? dont care how old it is.

>Fallout 4 is an RPG
>Ultima is not

baldur's gate 1
not as big as bg2 and perfect for short co-op playthrough

Ok, so, for example, here's a "shitty" hand-crafted lvl14 bow without a Tormented Soul applied, that would give it +2 to dexterity. Now give me an example of lvl14 or 15 (I'm feeling generous) bow that could even compare to it.

Or you can take good purples that had +dex or strength and add tortured soul to them making them even better even if they had slightly lower damage

Except those purples are locked at their own levels, so unless you craft at max character level possible, they're going to be overshadowed by hand-crafted gear with ease. Also, even if you enhance those purples on an a whetstone, their raw damage will be lower, than that of a hand-crafted weapon of the same level. The only advantage you get are the extremely low probability procs that cannot be relied upon or +1 skill bonuses that can be easily overshadowed by a +2 strength/speed bonuses you get on hand-crafted weapons even without using tortured souls.

TL;DR: none of the random gear in DOS is worth picking up, you can craft the best weapons in the game with literal chump change.

gamebreaking bugs everywhere, early access isn't an excuse when it's been in EA for nearly 9 months. developers have been almost as non-existent as the next car game developers when it comes to content delivery.

very shit and boring turn based combat, it hasn't been handled very well at all. dos2 did it much better.

Neverwinter Nights 1
I recommend checking out the Eye of the Beholder 2 module, Aielund Saga, or Cave of Songs.

Here's also a regular hand-crafted sword enhanced only via the anvil. Using Joshua's spice, Tenebrium and a tortured soul on it would make it imba.

>gamebreaking bugs everywhere
same goes for dos 2
>very shit and boring turn based combat
>playing torment for combat
so you have one legit complain and it's all about combat. in a torment game.
good job friend

You need to roll two intelligence checks with a -4 disadvantage to make it out of this one, user.

Different user here.

I've been playing through DOS:EE in preparation for the release of DOS2, and I've always heard about how crafted weapons and armor are better than what you can find.

It's true that you can craft gear with better raw damage, but most of the gear I use for the stat bonuses. Can crafted gear give these bonuses, too?

I always just seem to get useless bonuses like Lucky Charm as opposed to any primary attributes.

>in a torment game.

Why are you acting like 'Torment' is some sort of established franchise? There's literally one other game, released 15 years ago.

>Can't say I really see your point or complaint.
The problem is that all loot is useless, relative to crafted items. It screams of poor balance and is a good example of the many retarded design decisions Larian has made in DOS. With Jahan given to you as a companion, who has the Scientist perk initially, you can start crafting the best gear as soon as you set foot in Cyseal and if you develop Jahan as your dedicated crafting monkey, you don't need to spend a single point on crafting/blacksmithing on your regular characters. You literally get the best gear in the game with absolutely no investment whatsoever. It's fucking retarded.

And you didn't play that one for the combat either.

So who knows why you'd expect the new one to be about that.

>very shit and boring turn based combat
how is it compared to wasteland 2 combat?

>Why are you acting like 'Torment' is some sort of established franchise?
first torment was not about combat and the combat was terrible
second will be the same

>Can crafted gear give these bonuses, too?
Yes, look at this sword , it was enhanced only via the anvil without any other bonuses. Swords have an inherent strength bonus and bows get an inherent speed (not dex) bonus (you can get a dex bonus on a bow with a tortured soul and a perception bonus with a scope).

Playing through Divinity original sin 1 and loving the shit out of it. Fuck you guys for telling me it was garbage. It feels like a throwback that updated everything that should have been updated

>Also, even if you enhance those purples on an a whetstone, their raw damage will be lower, than that of a hand-crafted weapon of the same level.
I acknowledged that in my post

>+1 skill bonuses that can be easily overshadowed by a +2 strength/speed bonuses you get on hand-crafted weapons even without using tortured souls.
You can get some really decent bonuses in some purples and you can't craft +2 weapons even with 5 blacksmith/crafting until mid game

Overall, saying that the random loot is completely pointless is 100% bullshit because
You can't craft helmet or shoulder armor
The collar, boots and rings you can craft are way worse than what you can find
that's 6/9 types of slot that relied in loot

You are using loot in those screenshoot you hypocrite piece of shit

>DOS2 has been in EA since 15th of September 2016
>Torment ToN has been in EA since January 2016
>Torment has way more gamebreaking goods
>He thinks the writing in ToN is good
>"Two things are more dangerous than death in this world".. "Asking impolite questions of strangers and playing with numenera you don't fully understand".

This is a new game, having shit combat when it's one of the major complaints of the original title is no excuse. No other game would get away with that.

Do you think ramping the difficulty up would fix this?

Spiritual sequels don't get a pass on certain aspect of the game being bad simply because of nostalgia.

If the developers can make the combat fun and entertaining, without cost to the other parts of the game, they should do so.

If they fail to make the game as good as it can possibly be, why should people not criticize it for that?

>No other game would get away with that.

COD gets away with having shit stories even if it's the main complaint about every entry.

Come on, user.

The new Torment was sold on nostalgia for nostalgia fags. They know exactly what they're buying the game for. And you should know not to buy in if you you have preferences elsewhere.

My bad, I had the post typed up before you posted those screenshots, I see what you mean now.

I only found one scope so far and I wasted it not knowing how rare they are. Feelsbadman

It's not about getting a pass.

It's about people here not caring about the complaints because it isn't what we're playing the game for.

Nobody is on Cred Forums complaining about the atrocious animation in Persona.

Thanks anons

A game can have a shit story and still be good. A game can have a fantastic story and from a game standpoint still be absolute trash.

A lot of people are pumped for Nier Automata purely because it's going to be the first Nier game that won't play like utter ass.

>You are using loot in those screenshoot
That's because I'm not autistic enough to craft all of my gear, when I can already steamroll through the entire game on tactician with two warriors and a ranger with hand-crafted weapons.

>You can get some really decent bonuses in some purples
And those purples become obsolete pieces of shit, relative to crafted gear even without any nehancements, one level later, because you cannot increase item level in DOS EE and those purples are forever stuck at their level, so you need to find new purples that are actually better than base, non-enhanced crafted gear, which is something that pretty much never ever happens.

>and you can't craft +2 weapons even with 5 blacksmith/crafting until mid game
Kek, all of my gear was crafted on a fucking anvil in Cyseal with Jahan serving as a dedicated crafting monkey who had 5 crafting and blacksmithing before I even fought Braccus, you're talking out of your ass.

You're very right.

But the combat in the new Tormat is not bad enough to make it absolute trash.

I got half way through my third run of Div:OS EE when early access for Div:OS 2 came out, now I'm dicking around with that. Fun so far, but SnS and dual dagger rogues (my two favorite builds) are comparatively underpowerd right now, so hopefully they balance it out soon.

Also considering getting Icewind Dale EE, seems like fun.

>i don't care, so that means you can't complain

This is retard logic. If something is shit and not fun, then I'm going to say it's shit and not fun. You might not care about that aspect of the game, but that doesn't mean anything to me.

BE THE BIG CHEESE ON YOUR BLOCK WITH A WHEEL OF THE GOOD STUFF

Said nobody who actually understands why core 3E is an awful system for tactical combat.

>That's because I'm not autistic enough to craft all of my gear,
Doesn't matter you can't craft a third of the equipment anyway and another third is worse than loot
> I'm not autistic
>But I'm cheesing the game with a dedicated crafting monkey
Sure... at least you didn't make bairdotr the dedicate mule for optimal cheese

>And those purples become obsolete pieces of shit, relative to crafted gear even without any nehancements, one level later, because you cannot increase item level in DOS EE
Same with the crafted one, sure you can reuse some weapons like swords and aces, but daggers are a fucking pain in the ass and you can't recycle armor so you have to change every level anyway (and tormented souls and rubies aren't that common). And the duration of a level increase exponentially, at level 16 you are going to keep the same weapon for a while

>all of my gear was crafted on a fucking anvil in Cyseal with Jahan serving as a dedicated crafting monkey who had 5 crafting and blacksmithing before I even fought Braccus
>Fucking level 14
Seriously dude? Even with the most optimal XP acquisition (that you totally don't use because you aren't autistic right?) that fucking bullshit

>This is retard logic

And it isn't what I said either.

You can have NOT fun, and complain, and I can ridicule your choice of complaint.

It can all coexist.

whats bottom left?

I'd say wasteland 3

do you also cry about bad writing while playing fighting games?
people like you should stick to xcom and dos 2 and avoid crpg threads for the sake of everyone

God I hope its better than 2. It was was boring as fuck

>another faggot who thinks games are not about gameplay

Thoughts?

>people like you should stick to games with good gameplay instead of shitty dialogue tree navigators!
never change storyfags

Excited for divinity os 2 regardless because os1 was the only good crpg to come out of kickstarter so far.
Torment is made by the same guys as wasteland 2 and wasteland 2 sucked ass so I have no faith there.
Tyranny is made by obsidian so that's just going to be terrible as usual to everyone who isn't a die-hard obsidian drone.
And I have no idea what the last one is.

Haven't touched it because i don't like making my own party desu

>Same with the crafted one
No, it's not. The ingredients can be bought from a pittance at the vendors in cyseal every level.

>you can't recycle armor so you have to change every level anyway
Where's the problem? There's shitloads of skins evern before you leave Cyseal and you can buy metal scraps/plates at vendors.

>that fucking bullshit
No, it's not. It's called not being retarded. Here's a hint: there are items that enhance crafting/blacksmithing that can be bought from vendors.

>Doesn't matter you can't craft a third of the equipment anyway and another third is worse than loot
The only piece of equipment that's actually important and non-craftable is the helmet. Crafted rings can be easily just as good, if not better, than random ones, because bonuses to your primary stats are more important than everything else, since they can provide % bonuses of inflicting negative status effects via your skills, so you're wrong here.

Also, when you reach high enough level to craft +2 primary stat rings, all non-crafted rings become obsolete.

the good story is a part of the gameplay experience
I don't play rpg games to kill crits user

>from a pittance
*for a pittance

until you find/buy +2 primary stat rings with other good bonuses like status immunities or speed

t: the only turn based RPG I played was Divos and some weebshit.

>story is part of the gameplay experience

The amount of games that actually offer enough meaningful choices that affect the story is so small.

absolute disgrace

>the best combat of any CRPG.
Is this a joke? BG2 has much more tactical depth than DOS due to a much more complex magic system.

>press cloudkill to win: the game

>until you find/buy +2 primary stat rings with other good bonuses like status immunities or speed
Literally never found a single one of these in my game, but I'll give you that, if they actually exist.

I'm playing through Shadowrun: Dragonfall as a dwarven technomage and having a great time. It's pretty shallow compared to most cRPGs but I'm still impressed since the developers are mobile devs.

Also Dante is the best party member.

Da fuck? Cloudkill becomes useless the moment you start fighting anything tougher than a fucking shitty Umber Hulk, unless you want to cheese your enemies via off-screen AoE casting and waiting for their retarded AI to choke on the low damage dealing fumes.

I totally don't agree that BG2 has the best combat, but
>you can cheese it, so it's bad
is just terrible, it's why we have overbalanced garbage like PoE nowadays

like torment right? case closed

infinite skull trap, time stop etc.

>rpgs

I honestly wouldn't consider the choices in torment to be meaningful, for the most part. The experience is still rather linear. Most of the choices you make are purely for flavor. A rare exception of a game where the choices you make impact the gameplay experience in a more meaningful way is the Geneforge series.

A developer should always strive for balance. Making your game samey is not the same as balancing it. If you don't, you end up with a bunch of worthless classes and trap builds like third edition.

are all of those multiplayer?

AD&D's magic system is more complex but it's not particularly deep, plus D:OS' warriors and rogues are MUCH more complex than AD&D's.

>infinite skull trap
That's a bug.

>time stop
End-game spell that is not overpowered by the moment you get it, nothing wrong with it.

The ingredients can be bought from a pittance at the vendors in cyseal every level.
Again not for dagger (and to some degree maces because of crafting ones being capped), and my point is that you have to change it every level while you complaining about loot only lasting one level, not to mention again that in early game the bonuses can be good enough compared to crafting unless you are improving them with tormented souls/rubies that are not cheap nor easy to find
>Where's the problem? There's shitloads of skins evern before you leave Cyseal and you can buy metal scraps/plates at vendors
And there is a shitload of placer to loot to get level appropriate loot

>No, it's not. It's called not being retarded. Here's a hint: there are items that enhance crafting/blacksmithing that can be bought from vendors.
I didn't say anything about you not being level 5 in crafting/blacksmithing
Is bullshit becaus Rex is level 9, enemies don't respawn and the amount of xp you can get in Cyseal is finite, and you are fucking level 14. So you are so stupidly over level is not even funny, I seriously doubt you have not played anything of the mid game, it may be literally impossible to get to that level in Cyseal alone, hell, you clearly using an immaculate amulet

>Crafted rings can be easily just as good, if not better, than random ones, because bonuses to your primary stats are more important than everything else
And you can get ring with bonuses to stats really early plus some extra defense, this is not hard to find with the seller neither if you aren't retarded

>Also, when you reach high enough level to craft +2 primary stat rings, all non-crafted rings become obsolete
Still worse than my +2 dex +con ring

>video games

Don't compare AD&D and BG2. ToB's warriors and rogues have much more tactical depth due to HLAs and multi/dual classing.

Torment is what i'm looking forward to the most. Original Sin rubbed me the wrong way

Geneforge combat is still better than Planescape Torment's

>plus D:OS' warriors and rogues are MUCH more complex than AD&D's.

Not really. There's no height advantage/disadvantage, no difference in standing/kneeling and you can't grapple opponents in DOS.

i had two +2 str/speed/high elemental resist rings on my dual wield warrior by the end of my last run. my co-op bro had similar, but his were just stat/resist/immunity to stun and stat/less important stat +1/freeze or stun on being hit if i remember right.

easiest void dragon fight of my life

>Is bullshit becaus Rex is level 9, enemies don't respawn and the amount of xp you can get in Cyseal is finite, and you are fucking level 14.
M8, I just craft in Cyseal, because that's my comfy crafting house. I go back there almost every level to craft. I just loaded up a save and made some screens to show you some of my gear, I don't even play the game any more.

>And there is a shitload of placer to loot to get level appropriate loot
My point is that there's literally no point in picking up that placed loot because it's relatively shitty and you're not guaranteed to have good random loot in the first place, while you're always guaranteed the best stuff almost for free when crafting.

>and my point is that you have to change it every level while you complaining about loot only lasting one level
You're not guaranteed good loot every level, while you're guaranteed the best armor and weapons every level. Do you understand this? There's no point in picking up any of the shit under your boots except for some very, very rare cases which almost never happen and pretty much NEVER happen every level.

The real problem here is not that crafted loot is pretty much always better, it's the fact that you get it with literally zero effort or skillpoint/gold investment. It's a shitty design decision among many others Larian has made.

WL2 had a really poor combat and some of the questlines were pretty badly done. The gamebreaking bugs in the second part of the game also were something else. If there is any hate it's completely justified.

>M8, I just craft in Cyseal, because that's my comfy crafting house. I go back there almost every level to craft.
Sorry I thought that you meant that the screenshot was from before fighting Rex not that you just get 5 in the skills at that point... because I didn't think you were so stupid to not get that you can't craft +2 gear at low level not because of not being 5 at the skill, but because of just the level

>My point is that there's literally no point in picking up that placed loot
Again you can craft a third of the gear, so you are going to loot it anyway, and some crafting armor is only good by numbers alone, you don't get good stats bonuses on armor and some of the bonuses are arguable kinda bad like extra luck, making a dex range character relied more on loot than either a bonus to HP (pointless) or a smaller bonus to something useful, so you get a bigger number on screen but you are not even going to use it

>while you're guaranteed the best armor and weapons every level
Actually, again, the bonus can potentially be bad in crafted, is fine in sword and axes because you can retry at much as you want but seller don't have as much quantity of some materials (can you even buy branches?) to get always the best gear

> it's the fact that you get it with literally zero effort or skillpoint/gold investment
Honestly the problem is you cheesing the game, you have a craft monkey making the skill point investment pointless but otherwise we are talking 6 to 10 points. Compared to the one point in scoundrel you have to invest to make sneaking pointless, ignore surfaces and get a bunch of AP every other turn or one point in earth that makes early game a joke, I really don't see how Craft/BS is the one always getting complains

i was gonna do something useful today, but now i guess i'm gonna play divinity enhanced edition

>a much more complex magic system
Yeah, the spells had so many effects and potential for synergies! The +X damage spell went great with the +Y damage spell, op combo!

>Honestly the problem is you cheesing the game
This is a retarded "argument". The game provides you with more companions that can fit in your party and it's only logical to use one of them for menial tasks, since you won't be using him in combat. That's how skillmonkeys are born in literally any RPG ever. The problem here is that a dedicated skillmonkey breaks the whole loot system, allowing you to craft the best stuff with zero repercussions for your main party, because Larian were too fucking retarded to make the components rarer and cost more at vendors.

>rtwp or turn based?
The people have spoken, get over it you remainer scum!

BG2 covered in shit.

There was nothing tactical about the spells in BG2, just abusing broken bugs and aoe spell of the level (fireball, cloud kill, wilting) and sequencers. Endgame is even sadder because you just IA + Time Stop and shit out your entire spellbook instantly in every fight, even with the Ascension difficulty mod.

>Yeah, the spells had so many effects and potential for synergies!
Yes, they did. Spell triggers and sequencers, contingencies, time limited immunity from magic/normal weapons, use limited immunity from weapons via stoneskin, shitloads of mental effects like charm/domination/confusion/paralyzation, instant death effects, time limited immunity to magic based on magic spell level, time limited immunity to magic based on school, use limited spell absorption and reflection, SHITLOADS of summons, SHITLOADS of transformation spells, SHITLOADS of direct damage spells of every element, be they AoE or single target, SHITLOADS of magic protection disabling spells like Breach or Spellstrike.

DOS magic system is a fucking joke, compared to BG2.

Sequel's ok even if the narrative is a bit fucked.

>There was nothing tactical about the spells in BG2
Yes, there objectively was. Disabling enemy mage spell protections via Breach and Spellstrike and setting up your own contingecies already offers more tactical depth than any shit you can scrounge up in DOS.

You literally need none of those for base game and vast majority is utter trash. Only sequencers of each level, the couple defensive spells (which you btw don't need for unmodded game either) and aoe spell of selected level is what you need to beat the game without any hassle.

What's the point of having those options if you don't need them? It's not tactical if it's not required to be used at all.

And a fuckton of them were completely and utterly useless.

>You literally need none of those for base game and vast majority is utter trash.
Again, you're objectively wrong, because Ascension is part of the game, like it or not.

>And a fuckton of them were completely and utterly useless.
Useless? No, Redundant? Maybe, but you need redundancy in D&D due to the system having multiple spell levels, so you end up with some similar spells that are weaker or stronger versions of each other due to spell level difference.

On the other hand, you have a DOS, where the vast majority of spell is objectively fucking useless. Just spam that boulder spell with fireball to win the game, kek.

Stop being silly.

Ascension isn't part of the game, lol. It's a mod. Also by the time you are in ascension battles are completely decided by IA + Time Stop. In D:OS the element system alone makes the spell combat much more tactical even though there's less spells available. You actually have to THINK how to apply those spells if you're in a disadvantaged fight. The tactical part of BG2 is entirely in the early game where you can't just take on everyone easily and even then is reduced to shooting cloud kill and closing a door because the AI is too stupid to open it.

Like BG2 is one of my favourite games ever along with JA2 but calling the spell combat tactical on any level is laughable.

It's a mod made by one of the developers, though.

And? How is that relevant?

...

>you have a DOS, where the vast majority of spell is objectively fucking useless.
t. retard

>how is something made by the developers for their game, a part of their game?

Is this a serious question?

u wot

Wasteland 1 is pretty much Fallout 0.

>Ascension isn't part of the game, lol.
It is.

>It's a mod.
It's official content cut/streamlined from the game at launch, because it was too challenging for the shit-eating casuals, and restored as an optional download by Gaider himself. It's a restoration patch from an official dev.

>Also by the time you are in ascension battles are completely decided by IA + Time Stop.
Confirmed for not having played the game. Amelissan is immune to Timestop in Ascension, Balthazar as well, IIRC.

>In D:OS the element system alone makes the spell combat much more tactical
No, it doesn't it just forces you to use certain spells over and over, because everything else is sub-optimal.

>You actually have to THINK how to apply those spells
No, you don't. You just spam boulder and fireball to win every fight or cast an ice shard against the occasional fire elemental. BG2 enemies have actual magical protections that need to be removed, before they are made vulnerable, that's an example of a system where you actually need to think.

>The tactical part of BG2 is entirely in the early game
Again, you haven't played Ascension, which means you've never beaten BG2, so your opinion is shit and irrelevant.

It's a mod made by one of the devs you fucking retard, it's not part of the game in any way.

>Ascension is a mod created by David Gaider, a design director for Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal. Created due to personal dissatisfaction with the version of the game that was shipped.

I've beaten Ascension and Tactics and those most definitely don't count as a base game, you retards need to actually understand what counts as the actual game and what is a mod for the game.

>hurr you haven't beaten xcom if you haven't beaten long war!!!!

>Ascension most definitely don't count as a base game
Again, you're retarded and your opinion is irrelevant. Ascension is official content cut from the game and restored later as an optional download. It's part of the game, now go gobble an exhaust pipe.

None of those are in any AD&D game

>It's a mod made by one of the devs
>one of the devs

There you go.

Made by one of the developers of the game, for the game he worked on. It's part of the developers vision for what the game is.

You don't get to say it doesn't count just because its hurts your argument.

>The game provides you with more companions that can fit in your party and it's only logical to use one of them for menial tasks, since you won't be using him in combat
Or you could spec them in different classes and use them for different situations.
>Why is the game forcing me to deliberately spend 15 minutes going to end of time, visit every vendor, craft a bunch of shit and repeat this process over and over
Yeah, totally the games fault

It's not part of the base game. The base game is the vanilla content of the retail game only.

It's an expansion, not a part of the base game.

No one cares what you think you fucking moron. Just because you decided in your little world that it's part of the base game doesn't make it so.

Div: OS2 is literal perfection.

>It's an expansion, not a part of the base game.

Not that guy, but it's pretty weird to say expansions are no longer part of the game 'proper' when the game itself is over 15 years old. There's a statute of limitations and past a certain point, you're just talking about "the game", regardless of how many expansions there are.

I mean who the fuck is playing BG 2 without Throne of Bhaal?

Nobody, that's who.

>it's a mod

Damn, if only people possessed the skill of reading comprehension arguments on the Internet would be much easier.

No one cares what you think you fucking moron. Just because you decided in your little world that a restoration patch from one of the developers is a mod doesn't make it so.

>It's not part of the base game.
It is. It's part of ToB content that was cut to cater to casuals.

If you read the ascension readme, Gayder literally says it's just a mod and not an official patch.

You're operating under the assumption that mods cannot be official content.

But that's faulty logic that has no basis in reality.

Nowhere does it say it's any kind of restoration patch.

Not really. Saying that beating X game without all the expansion is not beating the whole game, is pretty weird.

If you play Neverwinter Night and beat the base game, you finished the game.

Sure it's weird to play Diablo 2 without the expansion, but most people didnt play Diablo 1 with Hellfire for example.

The base game is it's own "game". You either beat Diablo 2 or Diablo 2 :Lord of Destruction, they are two mostly different games.

It was cut. Then added as a download. This make it an expansion. Most expansions are develloped while the game is made but is cut because it does not fit. Same here.

Not the user you are arguing with, but there are plenty of enemies with immunities to elements and specific forms of CC in Divinity.

Bodybuilding and Willpower values for enemies get pretty high as well; I've had plenty of occasions where spells like Drain Willpower, Soulsap, and Infect were necessary.

Having status effects tied to elements allows for some intuitive spell interactions beyond binary applications, such as curing freezing with Wildfire, or even a damaging spell if you're desperate to remove CC.

If you're stuck in a poison or oil field you can overwrite it with water. You can detonate it to create smoke, which blocks LoS and can be used as cover from casters or archers (and those fucking spiders).

Combat throws so many different environmental hazards your way and it forces you to understand these mechanics and interactions in order to survive. It's much more reactive and spontaneous, which makes it more engaging overall.

Of course by the end game you can just Hail Attack/Barrage everything but by then you're practically god status anyway.

I like it a lot but the balancing needs to be looked at. A lot of the difficulty right now comes from the initiative order. Once you get someone with Leadership 5 and act first, you can control the fight before it's even begun.

>Saying that beating X game without all the expansion is not beating the whole game, is pretty weird.

Like I said, statute of limitations. If somebody came up to me and said "I beat BG 2 and Irenicus was a cool last boss" I would wonder what the hell he's talking about.

Past a certain point, it's expected that the game+xpac is a singular entity. If we were talking about some game released this year, you'd be right. But are you seriously saying someone is gonna play BG 2 and just avoid Throne of Bhaal altogether? Is it even possible to buy BG 2 without ToB at this point in time?

Blocking the LoS actually affect the spiders ability to teleport? I could swear that they do it anyway

ToB is pretty shit. I beat Shadows of Amn but never the expansion.

Lies.

It's the truth.

It does if you're in the cloud itself. Did a duo lone wolf run with a friend and smokescreen abuse was the only way we could handle a majority of the encounters there.

It was pretty fucking cheesy of us, but that whole area was bullshit with the permanent cripple.

Alright.

Why do you think it's shit? I always thought it was pretty neat. I enjoyed Watchers Keep, too.

I couldn't stand Melissan. Felt like the story took a nosedive in terms of quality. I'm not a storyfag but if you're gonna make me sit through a bunch of dialogue it better be good.

Just get a couple of boots with slow immunity

I always played only on consoles and love trpgs very much. Last year I biuilt a good rig and also decided to try all those pc """masterpieces""" I missed. And jesus christ all those games are bad. I understand perfectly now why pc market have died.

Not him but I thought it was a slog where you fight endless waves of trash mobs and where half the class are boring as fuck to play.

good for you

You love tranny RPGs?

He mentioned TRPG, so he probably doesn't play bioware shit but weeb vita shit

>buying a good rig to play 15 years old game

Gonna pick this up tomorrow when it comes out. The demo was pretty shitty but I'm still gonna play it because the story might be decent and I'll probably make a video review

I'm just happy there's discussion about cRPGs again. The past few years were a drought.
Going to get DivOS2, I want to play undead.

are those boots for your ballbusting sessions

>What are you looking forward to?

OS 2 is gonna be good. There aren't enough lizard person protags in games.

I'm looking forward to all three. Torment beta is amazing, Wasteland 2 (while flawed) was an engaging and long lasting experience that I've gone back to 3 times now so Wasteland 3 is bound to be great, Divinity Original Sin was great and I'm looking forward to the new shit in DOS2, Pillars of Eternity was great though admittedly needed many improvements so I have hope for Tyranny.

What's wrong with them?

>Masequerada
Post the video review here so I can dislike it :)

filename
it's a saved image, user

I really have no hope for the gameplay anyway, they don't even let you fully deactivate party member AI.

Playing nothing, looking forward to the sweet release of death.

Will play Tranny and possibly preorder/buy it at launch. Pillars was kinda fucked up but Sawyer isn't heading Tranny so maybe it'll be better.

DOS2 will be co-op with my buddy, though I hear the stats, character building, and armor system are all pretty fucked up compared to the first game.

Wasteland 2 was a shit and I have no idea how anyone could be looking forward to 3.

Torment will probably be bad since it's Inexile but I'm already on the hook for it so I'll play it if it's ever released and Brian Fargo isn't actually just constantly milking people of nostalgiabux with 10 games in production and never releasing anything.

I am super fucking pumped for Dungeon Rats though, the Age of Decadence dungeon crawler. D1Ping that shit as soon as I can.

go back to codex my jaded tryhard friend

>Dungeon Rats
Good taste

Dwarf Run > Dungeon Rats

Friendly reminder Tyranny is furryfag material.

I like the art direction of Tyranny, at least the scenario art

Didn't understand the source material/10

forums.obsidian.net/

>though I hear the stats, character building, and armor system are all pretty fucked up compared to the first game.

Stats problem was a bug, and they're going to change it anyway, we can't be sure about character building yet, early access has been out two weeks and only up to level 8, and armor isn't that bad, it just needs some balancing. Hopefully, all of that shit gets fixed for release.

I am actually suprised that all the big crowdfunding RPGs like divinity, wasteland and pillars are getting sequels (if you count tyranny)
Seems like the niche is big enough to support AA devs to continue making these games.

But I got my account deleted a year or two ago. I'm free, user!

I own Dwarf Run but never sat down and played it. Looked kinda questionable and I never really reached a point where I felt like giving it a try.

You sure? I heard that from this goof over here:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZvS0BWM0AJY

And while some of the stats not applying bonuses they said they did seemed buggy, the mechanics behind it sounded super fucky. Like there being a threshold based on your character's level for "Optimal stat amount" for bonuses, and the bonuses themselves being so minimal, etc.

Definitely agree with you that they might get it straightened out before release since it's not even launching in 2016, just sounded a bit fucked up currently.

opinions on this video game?

Replaying pillars of eternity for the nth time

Looking forward to Tyranny

German?

It's one of my personal favs.

Only if you like to roleplay high int high charisma characters though. Similar to planescape torment.

So close and yet so far

Relatively sure. A dev said that they wanted it that way, i.e., that the higher your stats go, the more rewarding it is based on your level, but they're rethinking it and want to do something else now. Stats lowering your damage and efficiency overall is definitely a bug.

However, I'm not certain about what that video says. I saw it and jumped around, but I didn't absorb everything he says. So I can't say for sure if that guy is wrong or not.

I played it for a couple of hours. I felt kinda railroaded though I may just not understand it well enough. I went combat route and joined basically the guards or whatever. Do the mission where they have you attack the carvan and then what.... Do the next mission. I want to be able to explore and do interesting things in the world. Not do 1 RNG mission after another hoping the difficulty doesn't scale up enough for me to get stuck

Waited for years and didn't like it at all. Min/max system, forces you to replay it again and again to see different quests and locations but the game is too short so it gets boring after second playthrough, writing is lika it was made by a 15 year old. Nah. Just nah. I understand why some people like it but it has so many flaws that I just can't and I better replay some old games. Oh and almost forgot. People say it;s one of the best games ever made in terms of roleplay. It is not it is literally class routes with a couple of crossroads. Deus Ex 2 had the same maybe just a bit less amount.

>get hyped about playing an undead in OS2
>they aren't in EA
>go with Lohse
>can't see myself not picking her on release because she's god-tier
fug

From what I understand, stats currently work similar to how armor value worked in DOS:EE.

For your level, there's a certain "threshold" of effective value that your stats are based around.

If you are below this threshold, you incur a penalty, if you are above, you get a bonus. This threshold rises each level at a rate that currently requires you to invest both of your stat points into your primary stat in order to break even.

It feels pretty awful as is currently. I think a developer made a reply on their forums about addressing it, though.

Became my favorite RPG. I've played through it a good 8ish times, wrote a shitty guide, and I'm waiting for the last content patch before I dive back in.

Game opens up a bit more, especially for imperial guard, after Teron. AoD definitely isn't an exploration-heavy game, especially since the acts are mostly broken up by city (Teron 1, Maadoran 2, Ganezzar 3) but you get more fuck around room later. Guard is also the most railroaded faction in Teron.

>Kill the elf. Kill the elf. Kill the elf.
Fucking kek

So is OS2 good? I keep seeing people say it's shit on rpgcodex but I have come to the realization I have different better taste than most of the people there.

I like all of those, although I prefer my 3D strictly as real time.

What's the deal with rpgcodex? I read some article from there once a couple of years ago and that's all I think. Why all the hate or something?

>pass the skill check
>Kill the elf kill the elf kill the elf kill the elf

It's like Cred Forums but everyone is tripfagging and upvotes.

They published a review of someone who disliked Pillars of eternity

>listening to rpgcodex
>ever
It's fantastic. Stats need some tweaking, but I'm confident that Larian will fix them during EA.

The blood of elves must flow.

Well I didn't like it either. V told me it's better than BG2 and it was BG1.

there was an autist from rpgcodex who thought he was the ideas man behind everything in larian studios during the kikestarter
when larian ignored him he went full autistic rage
he even posts here shitting on DivOS2

who?

Looks bitchin

I think he is shitting you, man. The only complaint about DOS2 I've ever seen there is the dialog system. Which kind of divides players everywhere.

>Assburgers youtuber
>RPG systems expert
top fucking kek

Is the *Informs you of his military career in a threatening manner* VS "WHAT DID YOU SAY TO ME YOU LITTLE BITCH" dialog system confirmed for how it's going to be? I thought it was just placeholder dialog.

That's how it's going to be. I don't mind as long as responses are in character.

Yep, that stuff is final. They already talked about it during the KS campaign, but I guess no one really paid attention to them or took it seriously.

>hardcore autistic rpgfags complain about the dialogue system that allows for most roleplaying
I don't get it.

Its really not that bad. At first I hated it but I got very used to it towards the end of my play through of the first act.

Ah, alright. I'm actually fairly fine with that as long as the intent is clear. HATE NEWSPAPERS is tolerable as long as it isn't voiced and you have plenty of options.

And yeah, I didn't hear about it in the KS campaign because when I back shit on KS I read absolutely none of the updates and just wait for the game to get pooped out since I don't give enough of a shit to whine to the developers about things I don't like.

>1:21:00

fuck that noise

...

Tyranny and Div 2

I'm enjoying pillars of eternity

>Ian Smiles-at-Dong
Didn't he pull a full 180 and become some anti-SJW fag? Insert le two sides of same coin meme here.

You can probably extend this chart to every RPG ever

it's fucking awesome, v just hates everything lol

Pretty sure it's just one asshole endlessly spamming DivOS threads. And the occasional person who honestly doesn't like it, but those guys are cool so long as they don't spread misinformation.

I can think of a dozen RPG's that don't fit at all.

A lot of these are asspulls like the one with Xzar and Montaron or the Underdark. Not that Bioware games aren't loaded with cliches (as expected of Forgotten Realms games) but this chart is shit.

>RPG
>You hail from humble origins

no shit

It does denote when it only loosely fits.

>tfw RPGs don't have good manuals anymore
At least Grimrock came with a manual.

The one with Xzar and Montaron is complete bullshit though seeing as in the canon Gorion's ward teamed up with Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc and Dynaheir and the game practically foists them on you.

It's an interesting concept. You'll enjoy it if you really, REALLY fucking love skill checks, minmaxing and savescumming.
It acknowledges your stats really well, but I feel like that's all there is to it.

>The one with Xzar and Montaron is complete bullshit
Not really, they will most likely be the first companion you pick after Imoen since they're on the side of the road in the map you start after the ambush

Okay, I'll play.

>You hail from humble origins...
True, you are some random guy getting admitted to a station state.

>A devastating battle sends your quiet life spinning out of balance.
True, the Faceless invade South Underrail, and your new home immediately sends you out to investigate.

>The attack leaves you alone with two companions, of magical and martial prowess.
False, you are alone.

>Undaunted by the attack, you are swiftly invited into an elite order that places you in a position of power or authority over the rest of humanity.
Partially true, the station you joined is a relatively important player on the political landscape. Furthermore you can optionally join two factions that fit the description, but it's just optional content. Also, one of the two is pretty tricky, and you can very easily accidentally lock yourself out without ever realizing what you did.

>You discover that you must travel to four main locations in order to save the world/galaxy.
True, unless you sequence break you will have to visit at least Junkyard, Rail Crossing, Core City, and Hollow Earth, in this sequence. Other areas are optional, but these four are mandatory for the main quest.

>With your mission well underway, your every effort is thwarted by an evil or sinister organization.
False, there is no one consistent enemy organization. Your efforts are thwarted by several unrelated players and factions.

>At some point you fall asleep and there is a dream sequence.
False, you sleep a couple of times during the story, but no dreams. You can get high as a kite and hallucinate, but I don't think that counts.

>Further along your journeys, you discover the ruins of a sprawling ancient civilization.
True, and then some. You discover the ruins of not one, not two, but three civilizations that are now gone.

Final score: 4.5/8 Moderately Bioware

I'm really looking forward to Tyranny due to the setting and role you play.

I've tried to get into Div:OS but I have trouble with the second party member as I always dislike how I make them, so it I've spent hours on the game without getting past Cyseal...

>I have trouble with the second party member
Find a co-op buddy.
Just in general, both Sins are far more enjoyable in co-op.

That may be the issue. Part of me also feels that the other one has to be female and I'm not sure why, but thanks for the tip.

>I'm honestly kind of surprised that they didn't just send an email to backers of the previous one at least
But they did, I received one.

>Part of me also feels that the other one has to be female
A more diverse party is usually the more interesting one. Especially true for Sin 2, with all the races and different origins.

I want to like it, but goddamn they are not making it easy. The setting and your role is only any good if the characters surrounding you are also good. But they sound so, I don't even know how to explain it, unremarkable it hurts. Which is funny considering that technically they are all snowflakes.

Also, those fucking names, man.
>Graven Ashe, Archon of War
>Verse the Scarlet Fury
>Kills-in-Shadows the edgehog
>Sirin, Archon of Song
>Eb the water mage

I mean, this is downright embarrassing.

D:OS2's writing is still of an immature manchild that refuse to grow up

It can be pretty serious when it wants to, it's just not grimdark 100% of the time.

A developer should strive for balance but tying yourself down with balance is what creates samey combat. Games don't have to be PERFECTLY BALANCED. Just accept that you're building something that won't probably be perfectly balanced even though you're trying or be ready for DND 4E

Tyranny

Except D&D 4E was amazing and D:OS obviously took notes from it.

>D&D 4E was amazing

Nice bait.

>Baldurs gate 2 was only damage spells
Literally didn't fucking play the game.

>one poll decides everything
Totally how things work

Is this due to what people subjectively enjoy or because it is objectively better better? Wouldn't real time be superior to turn base since you have total freedom of your characters action?

Wizard of the Coast revamp D&D ruleset to make it World of Dungeoncraft

no CRPG developer uses their ruleset because it's a hell of a lot cheaper just to make their own homemade "Not-D&D" setting/ruleset instead of paying to use MUH FAY-ROON or their MMO-tier newest ruleset

only developer who actually uses the D&D IP is Cryptic, who don't even use D&D 4.0 in their bad NWN mmo lulz

I may actually give a try.

Does it stay this lighthearted or are you cherry picking?

Its a mix depending on the character and your background trait. The elf is a hardcore edge lord, the lizard is a royal snop, the human man is evil soldier father looking for son, and the woman is a jester who has demons ruining her life.

There's a nice mix of lightheartedness and pretty dire dialogue. It all depends on the situation.

>step into one of her summoned healing springs by accident
>cursed ring kills me

Is there a list of the possible DOS2 companions?

Part of me feels like making the names a bit edgy was on purpose considering the tone they're going for.

I'm just coming off the first Black Company novel and am currently on Shadow's Linger, so the names don't sting as much to me. I don't know why, but they don't feel that bad. I think Verse and Barrik and maybe the water mage will be the most prominent companions due to their respective factions.

>pick the second option
>bitch goddess starts crying blood, fills up the entire pool and the priestess loses her shit over it

Sebile, former slave turned into an assassin by her master, she hunts down lizards and slave masters

Ifan ben-Mezd, Former member of the lone wolves, evil soldier man searching for his lost son, hes Joel from the last of us, also human

Lohse, Demons love her skull, shes abit of a stunted child in an adults body and makes lots of jokes, Ifan wants her pussy, shes also human

The red prince, Exiled royalty from lizard land, hes red, he shit talks alot, and sebile wants him dead

Red prince is worst character

>shes abit of a stunted child in an adults body
I figured her occasionally acting innocent and cute is just her way of dealing with the blood-thirsty demon. Joking comes from her being a bard or whatever.
The rest is spot-on.

Fuck you.

Different user.
Really love what they did with the Matrix in HK. Also the combat is much more intense. Getting outflanked actually matters in HK.

>tabletop FFT
>bad

seiously why do these autistic fucks create such long videos? do they think anyone will sit through their inane ramblings?

Yeah, that's the biggest problem. Tranny sounds more like mustache-twirling evil and they keep advertising it as "THE WORLD IS EVIL, EVIL WON, EVIL EMPIRE" which is just absolute garbage. They really need more nuance to make an evil empire believable. The fantasy-trains run on time but they're gassing gnomes and euthanizing cripples. That's still too on the nose but is still better than seemingly what they've shown.

Fuck, in a somewhat shocking example, Avadon seems to handle it better than what they've shown of Tranny. There are appreciable reasons to support the evil jackbooted player character.

cuck tier opinion
picking a list of canned responses is not roleplaying

Are the avadon games good? People seem to shit on them a lot.

I've only played (And am half-assed playING, actually) Avadon 1. It's not the worst game ever made, the biggest issue is it has simplistic combat with a lot of trash encounters, and the setting isn't as cool as basically any other Spiderweb game. They get shit on harder than they deserve but it's not like they're golden games.

Is combat worse than geneforge?

I would say so, and I'm not that fond of Geneforge combat either but it's still a bit more interesting since you can fuck around with your creatures.

Assuming you're not a piratefag it might be worth picking up next time it goes on a sale. He sells his older games super cheap during sales, can probably pick it up for a dollar or two pretty easily. May even be able to find a copy in a Steam trading thread if one ever shows up again, since it's been in a few bundles.

I actually see that Avadon 2 is currently $3, but unfortunately 1's still full price.

Why do they only want to sell their game to 3000 people?

Based on your logic, why would they want to sell to the smaller portions?