Watching wh40k lore about primarchs and Horus heresy

Shouldn't Fulgrim be in full snake mode by the time this bunch of dumbasses could have convened?

Good job proving his point.

>their own strength
>trillions of comrades

pick one.

isnt that him second from the right?

what are the capabilities of a common Rubric marine?

An irrational fear of vacuum cleaners.

Rubric marines weren't even around during the heresy.

Fulgrim is standing there on the far right. On his left is Ingethel.

why are they in op image then? isn't that Horus in the middle?

They're just TSons. Not rubric yet. Same armour.

>implying regiments just unanimously work together for every battle
They send only a handful of regiments to any problem, and those regiments usually win. And those "regiments" aren't millions of soldiers each either. It's usually a few-thousand strong infantry regiment supported by an artillery regiment and armour regiment. Take specialist regiments as needed.

Despite that being it, they usually win. Valhallans mop up ork infested worlds on the regular. The Cadian 9th, which is only a single regiment, beat back a hive fleet by themselves (granted, they were garrisoning a fortress and had titan support, but so do most anyone when fighting nids).

In the words of the codex,

>A battle may see the deployment of millions, yet time and again it is a single heroic company who carry their charge to secure a crucial gatehouse or pivotal objective. Squads of desperate men battle impossible odds, with nothing but their courage and faith driving them to hold the line while their valuable betters are evacuated to safety. Every day that the Imperium endures, Imperial Guardsmen stand in the face of beasts more hellish than their worst nightmares. Men charge screaming alongside their comrades into the mouth of hell, lasguns spitting death at the foe even as xenos munitions tear bloodied holes in the human ranks. In a galaxy of never-ending warfare, what makes the perpetually outmatched men of the Imperial Guard so admirable is that they know near constant fear, yet they lift their weapons, plant their feet, and fight on regardless. Their lives may be short and brutal, their sacrifices insultingly thankless, but it is because of the Imperial Guard that the Imperium continues to weather the storm of these dark times.

Their Legion's armor was colored red and gold back in those days, though.

They redecorated once they threw their lot in with Horus and devoted themselves to Tzeentch.

It wasn't until much later that the mutations started to get out of hand and THEN Ahriman cast the rubric.

The image is wrong. IIRC, that scene is of old lore before the Horus Heresy series shoved its dick into everything.

The HH series has its positive moments. I do like the nu1000k Sons especially, and the World Eaters are the best yet, but only a fool would think any part of HH is consistent with the lore of before. It also changed the tone of a lot of the old events or characters. Pius comes to mind, as his tale is now fuckawful. So while the HH series has its positive moments, it also has a gross amount of negative moments too. But it's what we have now, and the one thing it DOES have going for it is that it is at least internally consistent with itself, if not the old lore.

>This doesn't work though because the Primarchs are so categorically off the charts with their power levels that consistent boss fights would work if it was Primarch vs Primarch. No, the best formula for the HH would be a Battlefront style game with Space Marine's mechanics with Primarchs as hero characters.

Why not?

You could fight demigods and even gods in Souls / BB series.

They are husks of armor. They are automata that cannot die. They have a faint psychic mark of their former selves. For the most part they are just mindless golems that follow the will of the nearest psykers.

Because you don't do that in 40k.
If you're anything less than the top 1% of shit you die in droves in 40k. Even the IG require large numbers to succeed against things other than humans.
Even the canon heroes at this point wouldn't succeed 1v1 against what the Chaos Primarchs are now.

You could have a game in that genre as D/Eldar or maybe Grey Knights or Chaos Berserkers, but it doesn't really fit the aeshetic of 40k to ignore ranged weapons, or to be fighting completely alone.

I think people get the wrong idea about warhammer fantasy and 40k. Being a "hero" usually just means you die slower. Being a named hero usually means your a legit demigod. Anything below you is wiped out with a sneeze.

Alot of the worlds are just meat grinders. If your going to do a decent game of 40k/fantasy, then your going to need bodies. Alot of them. Even in the game "space marine", titus was taken by the inquisitors because they said "man, he fucking survived being that close to the warp. either he is chaosm or will be chaos.".

Like said, a good squad based game would work. One of the few games I'd say multiplayer would enhance. But then we find the difficulties of factions not having enough players in them.

You could just reskin planet side, having 3 main bodies fighting for large areas at once. I think that could work. Has limited ship combat, class specialties, ect.

You're in luck, user.
Your legs are gonna be ok.

Reminder that the "famous" Guard Regiments (Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, Valhallans, Mordians, Tanith, Elysians, etc.) are just a handful and are not indicative of the overall Guard experience.

Most Guard Regiments are slapped together inglorious messes of poorly equipped troops. As the 5th Ed Codex states, it is not uncommon for a Guard Regiment to go into battle with muskets and black powder weapons.

Stop glamorizing your meat grinder with Cadian propaganda.

>liking space marines
kindergarten is that way

Image isn't wrong. Thousand Sons went from Red to Blue after the Burning of Prospero on the Planet of the Sorcerers. Rubric Marines did not appear until after the Heresy.

The HH series has not contradicted this. One of the more recent TS short stories has an allusion to the blue armor coming around the corner as well.

>not liking manly games

Go find a shitty waitu in your weeb game.

Eternal Crusade has Dork Souls inspired melee. Go play that

>As the 5th Ed Codex states
And as the 7E Codex states, the lasgun is the universal weapon of the Imperial Guard, with just different marks and patterns for everyone.

And speaking of Cadian propaganda (Daily reminder that Cadians, including their look, only make up .00001% of the Imperial Guard yet make up 99% of the art), what is wrong with an IG game using Cadians (or any famous regiment) for its focus? In fact, it's inevitable that they would, because GW exists now only to sell models and refuse to world build anything without sellable models.

>Muhrines
>Manly
Please. They're more homoerotic than WWE wrestling.

"B-Battle Brother, we purged well today, yes?"
"Why yes Battle Brother. I say we go and meditate, perhaps together?"
"Oh Battle Brother of course I'd love to meditate with you!"

etc etc.

aren't space marines sexless Frankenstein retards?

yes, but they're homoerotic as fuck.

stop projecting your bara fantasies faggot

i'm not projecting shit, just calling out the gay as i see it.

why don't you come out of the closet and just admit space marines make your anus twitch in delight you little faggot.

i'm 100% IG, where at least there's some women to bang.

>doesn't know that pic related is canon material

Space Marines are fucking overblown and over represented.

Whats even better is that EVERY SINGLE TIME they are represented in a video or game they die so easily and have the worst kill/ death ratios. The tabletop doesn't even support the idea that Space Marines are all that better than IG cept the fluff makes them useless in those regards.

If the Space Marines kept up their losses in oh say the DoW 1 opening cinematic they lose 10 marines in the span of 1:40 with an average 1:1 kill death. That means an average chapter is killed off in 1000 minutes. Not a company, the entire fucking chapter. Thats 16 hours and the chapter is gone. Whereas 15 Hours is the accepted longevity of a regular IG soldier.

What needs to happen is Space Marines need to take a backseat to IG so Space Marines can be incredible again. If they are the main players they HAVE to die by the thousands. If IG are the main players they can be tough as nails.

What we need is a massive scale RTS like Wargame with an IG focus and SM as a supporting elite force thats niegh unkillable but doesn't hold ground. Like how they are meant to function.

The problem is you are thinking like a nerd, not a company. It is long-since known that space marines shouldn't be an army on tt - they should be an expensive Elite choice able to be taken by any Army of the Imperium at 100 pts a marine, according to GW themselves.

The problem is, marines are the face of 40k. They are the thing people most recognize from the setting, which means they need to be prominent in the art and anything else derived of the setting. GW knows this and encourages it, even dropping space marines from 24 pts/model a model to 14 pts/model. They can keep marines awesome-amazing in the books, but in The Game and the games, they need to be underpowered so that other forces can compete.

How else would you feasibly make an RTS where one soldier can canonically kill hundreds of the regular enemies - and said soldier is only run in squads of 10? You underpower him enough that he still kinda fits with the game mechanics.

Another problem, which you aren't considering, is that guardsmen and orks aside (and arguably tau), a space marine isn't all that better than the other xenos they face. A single tomb world fucks chapters up. An aspect warrior is faster, deadlier, longer lived, and better armed/supported. Daily life in Commorragh is literally the description of the most brutal labors space marines undertake to become battle-brothers in the first place (where most of them perish), and the more special denizens, like wyches or - Empra forbid - succubi, shit all over the common denizen. Even hellions won't fuck with incubi, which have the best armor of the most advanced civilization in 40k, and in tabletop it comes across as basic bitch marine armor.

Lastly, and most importantly, if you'd take that space marine dick out of your ass, you'd realize that every faction is over and underpowered and over and underrepresented in tons of ways, not just "space marine powerlevels." You can demand they fix one without giving way for everything else.

Forgot muh image.

GUARDSMEN! ATTENSHUN!
IT'S INSPECTION TIME YOU SIMPERING XENOS LOVING MAGGOTS!
REPORT WITH YOUR HANDBOOK ON THE DOUBLE.

My argument is that the overrepresentation of Space MArines litteraly strips them away of everything that makes Space Marines Space Marines.

Its like if every depiction of Tyrranids was one or two nids at a time, or Orks as articulate and elegant.

The Space Marine creep rids them of all character

>over represented
That's like saying Mario is over represented in Mario games. Humanity is at the fore in 40k. Sure, there are other interesting factions but to expect anything other than Space Marines as the poster children of the franchise is ridiculous.

on the way over

40k musou

I'm so glad that Warhammer is finally getting more games. I've always wanted to get into the series, I really liked the universe for 40K in particular. I'm not sure if I'm too willing to get into a tabletop scene for the games but I would like to get into the novels.

Where the fuck do I start? There's so much god damn shit. I always hear about Horus Heresy and thought I'd try that but it's like 20 fucking books. Is it best to read everything from point of release? I know there's different authors and shit and going to be different timelines but I'm overwhelmed with how much content there is. I already get overwhelmed just wanting to get into a game series that have gone on for a decade with only 4 or 5 games.

What's a good way to experience the lore without having to read through mountains of content? What's a good starting point? I tend to like content more that gets to the point with a clear beginning and ending without stretching it out for too long. I don't like stuff suddenly having 50 different arcs and dragging on. I'm so mixed on how I want to approach this series, it's cool as hell but I don't feel like the amount of content is for me. Should I just turn back now and wait for the games?

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
begin here and just start clicking random links and learn what you can.

Theres more to 40k than SPESS MAHREEEENS. If you want the face of humanity the IG is as human as it gets

>Not RTS, no shooter
>Make it like Bloodborne

Fuck off

You children are fucking annoying

DoW are fucking terrible after proper RTS like Starcraft

Sorry

I'l give you the original SC but 2 is trash. DoW is quite barebones for an RTS but outside of mechanics everything else is top notch.

> not linking /tg/'s wiki

Let's put it this way, it took 100 Grey Knights, the greatest of all space marines, of whom every single one is a psyker capable of vaporizing people with their minds, to banish Angron back to the work. Almost all of them died in the process. And that's a big fucking deal, because there's only 1,000 or so Grey Knights, and a company of Grey Knights like that 100 is normally able to solo entire planets' worth of daemons.

Alternatively, you could strip away guardsmen and multiply orks in all representations. A tabletop game of space marines versus eldar is very fluff accurate. Superhumans battling superxenos to the death, with super weapons tearing through super armors. That's 40k. The problem comes when 10 veteran guardsmen come for the same pts of 5 of these superhuman space marines, which give the impression that a space marine is merely twice the worth of basic humans.

In the problem of perspective, it is more accurate to say the problem lies in the overpoweredness of guardsmen and orks. The Space Marine game was a great representation of proper powerlevels. "Oh, better send these three guys inside and do what hundreds of guardsmen failed to do against thousand sof enemy orks. Oh look, they killed them all and succeeded."

While space marines could certainly be interesting as being represented as the mythical figures of death and destruction that they are in some bits of fluff, they do, however, most of the work in it -- which is to say, they are most present in all the things that matter. They need subsequent representation.

Putting humans next to them in insignificant numbers is the real problem.

As for the Dawn of War games, they are heavily inspired by the tabletop. Dawn of War 2 is best RTS depiction of the tabletop there is. Any qualms with it must then be qualms with the tabletop, which is why I keep shoving that into our discussion and addressing your concerns from that perspective.

sage this shitty reddit thread

If they make a good 40k game, it should be like the last level of Reach, every single level.
You just fight to the death against overwhelming odds until you run out of ammo, beat things to death with your trusty chainsword, and then eventually succumb to the offer "Join with Chaos to unlock the next level?"

most perfect style of RTS for a 40k Game is a mix betwen World in Conflict and WARGAME

thousands of units variation. Thousands on the battlefield, all function as they are meant to regaurdless, main limiter is the cost of the unit. No base building, only fighting

>watching

link?

>No base building, only fighting

In the grimdarkness of the forty-first millennium, there is only war.

yes, thats right

No base building as its an antiquated mechanic that only detracts from the core of the genre which is the battles. Base Building autists will defend it to the end but ulimately games like WARGAME and WiC show exactly how an RTS can be played without that aging mechanic.

>Not RTS, no shooter or any other lame bullshit genres.
>so instead we'll make it some roll around top hat game where we slap Chaos spawns to death

You suck.

Anyhow, you're closest bet is is Warhammer 40k Space Marine. Fun game, but pretty linear.

Why do you hate DoW series so much?

>lets instantly build a base on the battlefield
>cause that totally happens in IRL

It's a satisfying mechanic that asserts control over the map and allows for things like tech trees. Call me autistic if you want, I enjoy it.
>literal who namefag providing opinions on anything

Shaking my head.

Magic pain glove

Because they're terrible games that don't represent 40k at fucking all. DOW I consists of just slinging blobs of infantry at each other with massed special weapons and vehicles. And, depending on the race, their tactics may even literally be "click attack move and win or lose". DOW 2 meanwhile is more like mobashit. While it had some awesome men at war elements, it lost it with the fucking retreat function and resources shitshow. Just cut the bullshit and make a Men at War or Wargame style 40k game that actually reflects 40k as a universe well.

Go away, Rogal.

The Horus Heresy expanded stuff waas a mistake. Shit was a lot cooler when it was nebulous myths and legends. Fucking black library and their God aweful hh series

>Wanting a serious 40k game when DoW acheived the perfect balance of being slightly cartoony yet serious

I'm done giving you faggots replies

Trying to make every RTS either generic Sci-fi or Military garbage is killed the genre

was the total war game good? what youre describing sounds like total war minus the overworld

Except base building is fucking retarded. It has no place at all in 40k, most factions don't even base build, and it suits strategy, balance, and gameplay itself for a faster and more punishing system like Total War or Blitzkrieg. You get a limited amount of units at the start of the game, there's a positioning phase, then the battle starts in real-time. A unit dies, it's lost for good and there's no reinforcements.

THAT'S 40k.

You mean the WH Fantasy one? It was alright.

I was referring to War Game.

Base building for 40k is fine because it fits with the grimdark setting.

>tfw no imperial storm trooper or catachan game in the style of republic commando
>Tfw no IG game in the style of brothers in arms: road to hill 30

It would be so easy and so good it hurts

Why won't they do it Cred Forums

so would it work/be better on a milky way scale

Oh yes. Total Warhammer is fucking amazing and is essentially the best thing to ever happen to Warhammer Fantasy, ever. It's the most faithful, perfect representation of Warhammer Fantasy ever made, and 40k really deserves something similar. Just without the Total War-style mechanics which favor ancient and medieval combat. Total War's systems + Gameplay of Wargame or Men at War = Perfect 40k Game.

again, tech trees and the like just simply interrupt flow. Sure YOU enjoy it, but it cannot be argued that the base building RTS style is just basically a massive mechanic to prevent you from getting to the fight.

Need to fight? Build buildings first
Need to have your soldiers do something that should require a magical upgrade? Better build something
Need different units? Better build something. Base building exists only to limit your ability to play the game.
The upgrades and tech make little sense as well. That each fight you cannot bring out weapons you had moments before because your general wont let you untill you build a science building and poke it three times?

At least things in Wargame and Wic Follow the logic that your units existed they just were in transit. The whole game is centered around battlefield tactics and strategy. If you want to win, win the fight. Taking physical zones of control on the map instead of controlling resource fields.

With base building games you don't really get that. You clash your units into a lane until one person out produces the other.

Total War is focused on melee combat. Wouldn't translate well to 40k.

You can swap the combat mechanics out for another game's, but keep the setup phase and overworld map.

Well tarpitting is actual a common tactic for the table top game but I see what you're getting at.

I'd pay for a Men at War 40k game. Relic has a tendency to oversimplify mechanics though.

You've definitely got a point there, but I prefer DoW. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion I guess.

Tarpitting's rough though, because if anybody has Spooky D Ghosts or Imperial Knights, those tarpits are getting wiped off the table.

Sad times. I miss the days where melee was king and Chaos Raptors could chew through entire units, pile in, and chew through another unit until they managed to take out multiple units without anybody getting a chance to take a shot at them.

kinda like in WARGAME's campaigns, where the untis you move around are force organizations in their own like supply companies or tank battalions and the like. so you get the macro strategy sense of maneuvering.

Wargame was really good at giving many different levels of strategy at one time. WiC was a lot more tactical level, but at the same time it was brilliant for its time.

>He thinks canon means anything in 40k

>doesn't realize all rogue trader material is no longer canon