Why do Japs misinterpret Christianity so hard? Every time they try to make a story about it...

OT God is a badass though. mother fucker glasses two entire goddamn(heh) cities for tryna rape one of his angels

In all seriousness: This isn't really exclusive to Japanese writers. Basically everyone who isn't a Christian will get Christianity wrong when writing a story about it, hell even some Christians might do as well.

For example, look at Annabelle (the horror film), it turns out that the titular demon wants to eat a human soul, and a side character, who had been previously involved in a car crash where her daughter died (and she has survivor's guilt) suddenly says at the end that it's God purpose that she saves the protagonist's baby, by fucking killing herself and giving her soul to the demon, and she's all happy about it again because "it's God purpose!"

Look, God works in mysterious ways but He's definitely not going to put you on earth just to force you to give your soul to a demon, the fact that the writers could miss the concept of "eternal punishment" so hard is pretty baffling in itself.

But there's in fact some cultural aspects of Japan involved as well, for example, in Japanese myth and lore, Demons aren't inherently evil and Angels aren't actually holy beings but rather just messengers of the gods, they can even be mortal people, there's also no concept of hell in itself, so they write angels and demons with this in mind, rather than thinking about stuff like Christian hell.

devilman crybaby has some interesting takes on it

In what way?

Define proper. Even the Romans rewrote stuff then later the puritans. No one in the the bible you can sell sould or that Satan has horns.

Even Prophet Saul overrides Jesus and contradicts him.

The game is fiction anyway. They also go to slowly move away yhvh as the true God. But some Ursurper who stole that name. They're all listed as demons/oni.

Your viewpoint on your religion is objective to you, but to the series it's relative.

Probably the fact that their cultural has a very different idea of angels and demons, heaven and hell, and foreign religions in general? Maybe?
Not to mention there's so many denominations of Christianity, which one is the proper one?

OT god is just evil.

>Leaves the fruit of good and evil easily accessible to A&E.
>Allows satan to come to the garden and convince the totally innocent A&E to eat the fruit.
>Revokes their VIP cards for doing something that they couldn't have understood was wrong and God could have stopped at any time.

>Kills almost all life on earth because of bad men.
>Does nothing to stop bad men from reinhabiting the earth after the flood, even though he could easily do it.

>Loses his spiritual gamble with satan.
>Decides to lawyer his way out of his own legal system by sending his son to earth to be tortured to death, take on the sin of all men, then get expelled from hell on a technicality.

They pretty much get every religion wrong other then its basic symbolism. Just so happens they focus on Christianity more they fuck up more

>reinterpreting is getting something wrong

This.
They write from a point of view that they're most culturally connected to. It's like reading a white author trying to write a believable black character in the middle of black culture.

Same thing happened with Star wars when they put a Star trek fan (Abrams) to direct a movie. The guy went in with Star trek conventions in mind rather than with Star wars canon when writing the story.

Likewise, when a Jap thinks about a demon, he thinks about the japanese oni/akuma instead of judeo-christian demons

horror movies that have a basis on made up bible verses grinds my gears the hardest

*looks in bible* "it says here that if you say the demons name then he'll leave"

It's to make up for being excluded any mention in the bible.

>Saul overrides Jesus
amatteroftruth.com/do-the-teachings-of-paul-contradict-jesus

Prots get out

Americans act like Saul.

Doesn't rape people while transformed into a goose

The face of God.

Impossible. God is the one who defines morality.

Old Testament God was a fucking dick. So was the Gnostic Demiurge, which SMT bases its interpretation on.

>Try to present religious themes but do it without any nuance.
>reinterpret

Wow it's almost like these are fantasy universes that use loose interpretations of the concepts presented in these religions instead of being a 1 for 1 translation of the idiot's guide to not being a cunt or you'll burn forever.

let's be real here, the only reason this thread exists is to discuss christianity on Cred Forums, not actual games.

Because it would be fucking boring.

Christians movie studios churn out movies that are accurate to the theology and there is no tension because as soon as the MC calls on the power of God, the demons are BTFO.

For example:

youtube.com/watch?v=huLAi2AM8RA

When your main character has an "I win" button, what's the point?

SMT isn't about Christianity. At most, its an incorporation of Christian deities into a Buddhist cosmos.

Morals are relative and God isn't real.

Shin Megami Tensei is heavily based on Gnosticism.

...

The other blue God.

Trust this man. He is your friend.

If i wasnt on my phone id destroy your shitty assumptions

>being unable to define your own morals and what it means to be a man
>needing children's fantasy stories to do it for you
wew

>why does x race misinterpret highly open to interpretation religious texts
why do you think legalese is so verbose user

>believing in this ethnocentric Judean religion or else you're going to burn in hell forever
Oh gee, I wonder why a more Buddhist orientated people will find the religion so sick?

How can god define morality if he gave us free will? He can define punishments sure, but if one day he decreed murder to be good and mercy to be evil what would the practical difference be besides semantics?

It's like calling retards "special". Everyone knows it's the same damn thing but with a new label.

youtube.com/watch?v=qDsDYCI3fyc

Exodus clearly states that God took control of Pharoh’s mind (hardened his heart) to keep him from releasing the Israelites so that He could show off his plagues. The God of Isaac and Abraham does not adhere to a human perspective on morality.

>the fight between heaven and hell being balanced
Are you even talking about SMT? Heaven is always more overpowered than hell. Record scratch has Satan, who's at least twice as strong as Lucifer. Then there's the archangels and Metatron.

Satan with God is in the bible. Where God sends him to judge Job.

You couldn't even if you weren't on your phone. The Bible is untenable.

...

bayo has lived for like 600 years
pretty sure she stopped gaving a fuck about the eternal torture long ago.

...

God is extremely evil

>SMT V is a Switch Exclusive
Why?

It's called taking creative license. They're not out to represent it, they just want to incorporate elements from it because they think it's cool.

Bayo is a 600 year old witch and probably isn't too fazed about hell because she keeps herself alive with magic and is powerful enough to not die easily.

Behold the big bad of smtv

The West takes plenty of creative liberties with other religions and myths, so you can cut Japan some slack. Their country isn't exactly familiar with the Bible, so they'll see something they find cool and use it for creative purposes rather than conform to some accuracy to please Christians.

Why are YHVH and Demiurge two separate entities?

Atlus testing games with no yhvh

>big bad
>not MC's persona

1. Japs have many gods and think society and teamwork are the best shit ever, so one guy doing shit on his own is always evil. Their only reference for that is Oda Nobunaga who is either a loli or a demon in human form in their anime.
2. Oni, the nearest thing to a demon, are often good, playful or just slightly dickish. They have no idea of hell.

In general our fears and hopes are far more absolute and they don't share this extremism. Also, why bother correctly depicting christianity? As far as they know, their market is Japan and maybe China, with the west being a bunch of stupid fucks who buy their games for some reason. Most devs don't think of the west, let alone such complex themes.
You don't understand how culturally closed off Japan is.

>Is there any game with a proper interpretation of Christianity?
sounds boring. I'll take fantasy christianity over supposed religious accuracy. Same goes for any religious adaptations, really.

This
religions are boring af

...

The word jigoku existed before white people came to japan,and its deeds that get you there.

Wrong series bro.

I bet OP's favorite movie is God's not dead.

> doesn’t want religion to interfere with his lecture
>one kids refuses to sign the thing
>dedicates entire class periods to debate the kid
For what purpose?

All these christfags came out the woodwork with Cred Forums. I know it's beating a dead horse but it's true, also nice edit lmao.

Separate religions.

>Why do Japs misinterpret Christianity so hard
I was raised non-denominational, and each of the churches I ever went to fucked-up the religion just as badly. Give them some slack, Christianity makes no sense to most of them.
>God being extremely evil
Have you even read the Old Testament? God as depicted then was a fucking sociopath with severe megalomaniacal tendencies, and he bro'd around with Lucifer often.
>the fight between heaven and hell being balanced
No-one likes a story where one side curb stomps the other.
>being able to damage omnipotent beings
What if you made God, who is Infinity, divide by 0?
>silly stuff like people praising multiple entities rather than just God
I dunno, ask the Catholics who pray to various Gods... err... "Saints" for protection as though they were living in 47 B.C. Rome.

Funniest part of the movie is he was perfectly refuting the kid every time he started bitching but the kid kept saying "muh faith"

>like God being extremely evil
God is never evil in SMT. His grasp of the universe as an ascended being and the ultimate ruler of it all only makes human sacrifices insignificant in comparison to his duty to mantain His order. Fuck, we do the same to smaller beings, and no person hunting for the only purpose of quelling out or regulating the reproduction and population of a certain species does it with malicious intent.

Did you even read the Bible? Did you forget about Sodom and Gomorrah? Or is the concept of actual religion without family friendly retcons too much for your ameritard brain?

...

>god is omnipotent
>god knows that cain will chimp out and kill abel out of jealousy over god favoring abel's sacrifice
>asks cain where abel went knowing that he's dead and that cain will lie about it
>god set the whole thing up and could have saved abel at any time but chose not to because he wanted to make an example out of cain
>not evil

H

jigoku isn't really eternal though, and yomi no kuni is kind of a hangout for skellies. You get trials and can get out of it thanks to your descendants' prayers. The idea of dying without a confession and getting fucked up for ever and ever would be extremely silly when all your religions are about change.
tofugu.com/japan/japanese-hells/

Because they're not trying to be realistic nor politically correct.

>a proper interpretation of Christianity

You mean a FAVORABLE interpretation that ignores all the bad shit so it can reinforce your faith. SMT is honest about what YHVH would actually be like. Japs aren't bathed in Christianity like the west is, they can see it from an outsider's perspective. They see Christianity as ridiculous the same way you see every religion that's not Christianity as ridiculous.

Lets just pray that emulator works man

>Is there any game with a proper interpretation of Christianity?
Are there any proper Christian movies or books or even any religion? It would be hard to pinpoint what's a proper interpretation as you might have different perspectives clashing or belong to a different type of Christianity that proclaims they follow the true path of Jesus.

The main reason why I dislike arguing with Christians is that they acknowledge the holes in the argument and just plug them with God. I've had one say "God is necessary because without him nothing makes sense". That's a problem in your belief system. It should make perfect sense because a God designed it.
(Obviously this is the part where they pull the "God's designs are inscrutable" bullshit)

...

God is a petty cunt who creates sentient beings to worship him 24/7 in the afterlife.
Fuck that shit.

yhvh isn't omniscient in shin megami. The great will is.

...

It's because it contradicts their reality and want to keep hold of it no matter what. It's very hard for them to say that their religion is not 100% correct or even the fact they were just raised into it and never bothered to read the whole thing but still insists they're right

megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will

>It should make perfect sense because a God designed it.
It SHOULDN'T make sense exactly because a God designed it.

My only actual issue with the Bible is the whole "let us make man in our image, after our likeness" bullshit. It exemplifies every single issue with taking the entire book as anything more than a collection of metaphors. At least they aren't as harmful as others, I guess.

What is The Great Will? Isn't that the Axiom?

And that's when you bust out the Alpha Centauri quotes and say "Why would a perfect god need to create a world at all?

The name in japanese is far more blatant. It's "the great will of the universe".

Basically, something far more accurate to the concept of God itself.

>believing modern Jewish propaganda

But YHVH is basically Demiurge in SMT

If morals don't make sense to humans, then God is at fault for making us too stupid to understand them. Maybe I forgot to mention we were discussing morals specifically, not universe creation.
Obviously, the christian's reply to this was "this is where faith comes in, you just trust God and follow his rule". Overall terribly unintuitive and prone to failure. If God designs for failure, well, his boss should scold him.

When you argue philosophy, science, or specifically metaphysics with laypeople or the undereducated it generally it ends up being a shitty time.
That may screw with some laypeople but it wouldn't really hold at all.
?
Though obvious with an eastern twist, making it more akin to the Dao, Brahman, or generally the Buddha-nature.

But he didn’t need to

Exactly.

>That may screw with some laypeople but it wouldn't really hold at all.
>he made the universe out of love
>love that leads to eternal torture most of the time, but still love
Christian theology is hilarious.

Because it's cooler

Not really.

Mugen jigoku is a thing though, still messed up for being Confucian obsessed.

You leave a lot of important shit out, m8, that's why you get confused.

No, they are only different in name. Functionally, YHVH is identical to the concept of a Demiurge,

It's not Christianity
It's Gnosticism

If you want a JRPG that is pretty pro Christ (even if its not actually Christ) play Dragon Quest

Japs interpret christianity by what they see in history books.
If you guys hadn't behave like Al Quaeda for centuries and actually behaved chill and peacefully through life like Jesus told you to do, none of this would have happened.

They explicitly don't interpret Christianity though. They're interpreting the Judaic form of Gnosticism.

Separate.

Don't forget the multiverse.

...what?

Zeus rarely appears.

Buddha never.

Jesus nope.

Yhvh rarely outside out of smt.

Are you new?

why is god such a dick in the old testament anyway

Harrass dad.

No, I'm pretty old. Feel free to explain yourself whenever.

megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Tensei_Multiverse

What we think of as "God" was invented by Greek philosophers long, long after Yahweh. Hellenized Jews who were educated in classical philosophy bolted "God" onto Yahweh, but more traditional Jews found the concepts very alien. Yahweh is like any other contemporary deity of his era, we just find it surprising because when we read the OT we expect to find "God" and not Posidon.

Cred Forumstatds have a narrow view of christianity considering Jesus was pretty much the original hippy and he preach about universal brotherhood but Cred Forums Jesus is an aryan uberschmen who believes on free market, white supremacy and ethnostates

God is evil though.

People were too primitive to hold such abstract ideas as honor so the writers needed more immediate ways to get them to behave

I was explaining to Evangelicals the history of the people writing the Bible and their shift from polytheism to theism, along with other secular outlooks relating to the Bible.

What I got from them was a bunch of nonsense but the most striking response essentially was:
>what you're saying has maybes and ifs, so you're wrong

Like they literally can't comprehend nuance and careful scientific inquiry. My statement had an uncertainty when it came to exactly what entailed in the polytheism (what were the specific rites and deities) the ancient Israelites were into before fully shifting to monotheism. For them, anything that is said with strong conviction must be true. It doesn't matter if there are no reliable facts behind those statements or no good logic to them. This is why so many of them have such a hard time accepting evolution. It's not just because it goes against the creationism of the Bible, evolution is part of science and thus there are still things which are uncertain like which were all the exact species which gave birth to humans.

I don't know why they don't accept a Vedic religion anyway. It's so much more superior in morals and it suits their ethnocentric mindset, at least when it comes to Hinduism.

He's also a dick in the new since he'd still send 90% of humanity to hell.

Eat shit, tripfag.

Shin Megami has multiple universes. Some avatars like demiurge and YHVH are splinters of the great will. But acting on their own, creating universes.

That's legitimately not true.
You deal with people based on what they are capable for at the time. God's creating a series of ever-larger communions throughout the Old Testament.
Yes, I know of that, I'm just curious what point you're making from that.
k

So bear my ignorance for a bit, but why the fuck would God create hell anyway?

It's such a twisted and evil concept that it is hard to believe there is benevolence in him if he is willing to send people he doesn't like to suffer and agonize for ALL of eternity for what they did in maybe 70-90 years.
And I can get that there are some really sick persons out there, but infinite torture sounds like overkill.

It's not supposed to be "accurate". The Japanese clearly do not put much effort into their media.

It's so retarded and misanthropic.
>hurr durr I'm going to put myself in a human body to fake suffering, since as a the all powerful diety nothing hurts me, in order to forgive sins that most people didn't commit yet still are blamed for
>Your sins were forgiven? Nah. You all still should believe in me or else you all go burn in hell.

At least the OT was consistent with the Judean ethnocentrism and the severity. The NT is manipulative crap with all the love and forgiving mankind's sin bullshit.

>Jesus was pretty much the original hippy and he preach about universal brotherhood
Jesus went around breaking shit and humiliating people.

The argument goes that any sin is a sin against god, who is eternal, thus retribution must also be eternal. It's fucking retarded.

Because according to the text, God is a spiteful and vengeful being. Not at all benevolent

When I was a kid I was way into Jesus and all that but as the priest got to eternal damnation I just chose to leave that out of my personal religion. Fuck going to hell because I called an old woman a bitch and forgot to say sorry.

Isn’t hell just a place away from God’s grace?

There's another one that's even better. When you die and witness God, you feel so guilty at having offended his perfection you throw yourself into Hell and refuse to come out because you rightfully know you must be punished for eternity. And of course God would love to save you and everyone else, but he just can't because of Free Will. It's nuts.

There are times when vengance is justified, it's just that nitpicking the choices of clearly flawed beings is not fair, least of all when its done by an omnipotent and omniscient being who probably hasn't really struggled a day in his life.

Yeah he stuck to hippie cred pretty well

>god is extremely evil
Yeah, but YHWH is legit a jerk. His whole deal is monotheism when the whole region is dominated by different cults and syncretism, and worshipping other deities is the one thing he gets the most angry about. Imagine believing in the Greek pantheon and then Poseidon telling you you're not allowed to believe in, much less worship, anyone else. Even without all of this and with Jesus and Paul and sola fide he's still kind of a petty megalomaniac.

Really accurately portraying an omnipotent God would be horribly boring. Everything is God's doing, no free will. Read Spinoza if you want metaphysical accuracy in your portrayals of God.

What about it?

This is such an anti human way of thinking it's unbelievable. The writers of this theology were clearly misanthropes. Do people actually believe this crap?

the thing is that he doesn't change his mind

A lot of them, yes.

Flooding the entire earth and killing millions sure is nice

In case you didn't get the memo, the newest entry brought some retcons. In-game YHVH is a malicious demiurge separate from the actual God (The Great Will). Angels and demons are both his henchmen.

>jap creatives put whatever they think is cool into their content
>jap and asian mythology in general is simple minded i.e. the fox spirit can be healed with the water from this specific lake because it just werks
>japs don't really have much creativity they're just great problem solvers so much of what they imagine is just copy pasted from other media

You won't go to hell for that
You will go to hell for denying God and for denying that Jesus is not our Saviour.

it's not nice but it's morally righteous because God is the one who defines righteousness

And yet a lot of people are disgusted by the act.

*and for denying that Jesus is our Saviour

Pretty sure Christianity is interpreted differently by thousands of different subsects OP.

YHVH only appears in few games.

Any unconfessed sins drag you to hell.

But then where does Yaldy and Christ fit in?

that's irrelevant, most people are degenerates, there is no good or evil without an absolute authority and that is Yahweh

>being catholic
shiggy diggy

>jap and asian mythology in general is simple minded
The Vedic religions are quite complex.
>japs don't really have much creativity
JRPGs have more variety in them in themes and settings than WRPGs do.

Try any educational Christian game made for children. Those usually have interpretations that the majority of Christians can agree on.

>believing in someone dickhead's interpretation of a God that turns out to be a jerk that cares about a bunch of beings on some random planet when there's the rest of the fucking universe

I just keep it at believing there's a higher being that created everything and me not doing bad shit. Is that fine?

God you're fucking retarded. Was your mother an alcoholic?

no, there's no evidence of a higher being so believing that and acting according to it is retarded

That's ridiculous. Authority doesn't define morality. Truth and values are the principle components of any moral framework.

Evangelicals will be all over the place theologically and it's only coherent to argue straight to their core Protestant elements only. With Evangelicals you're likely dealing with the uneducated and very mixed views as Evangelicalism is a interdenominational Protestant movement rather than specific denomination.

Hell is a result of your freedom to reject God.

>but why the fuck would God create hell anyway?

Traditionally the idea is that those who wish to separate from God in life will reject God in essence in death. Just that separation is a shit experience. The distinction is in two parts:

>punishment
It is called a punishment but how it is a punishment differs. In one view you are getting tortured and the other your self-exclusion led to you fucking yourself up. These views are pretty scattered between all laypeople but between denominations the torment view is heavily dominant in Protestant denominations and the other dominates in Catholic/Orthodox theology.

>ontology
Heaven and Hell being either specific places or dispositions to the same result of being with God. Between all laypeople this differs. Protestant faiths are all over the place here, Eastern Orthodox have traditionally held to the "disposition" view and Catholicism has a history of both views and so they just said that however you wish to understand it, it is ultimately a separation from God that defines it.

Authority absolutely defines morality when that authority is absolute. Otherwise, how could you be convinced that rape and murder is bad?

You mean like they misinterpret the nordic religion, or generally every western mythological, historic or prominent figure?

Japan is retarded

>read the history of the jews, that'll tell you all about christianity

Fight of God's
Moses and Jesus are as close to canon as possible.

By the fact that humans have the right to own their own body. Ultimately it boils down to rights and ownership, neither of which are entailed inherently by any authority's command.

>like god being extremely evil

Well if god was real why would he let two of my friend's wifes die to cancer? Mein they had kids I'm over here drinking because it was sad but I can't imagine what they're going through.

cancer sucks

>By the fact that humans have the right to own their own body.
Says who? Oh right, it's God.

Actually yeah

If I wasn't posting via smoke stack I would destroy your shitty potential counter-argument.

You keep believing that, maybe you wont have to actually think tonight.

Despite contradicting everything the new testament teaches us.
>inb4 catholicuck teachings

When people try to "think" about morality, that's how you get rapists and murderers and pedophiles running free. With God as your witness, there is no ambiguity in morality and humanity prospers.

>Jesus quotes the OT constantly
>”n-no, just ignore all of that!”

I think my favorite part of the SMT series is how they noticed that other gods and dieties of other cultures where dismissed as demons by the christian church so they added them as demons in their games.

>Why do Japs misinterpret Christianity so hard?

Because they don't and you are stupid and retarded projecting faggot. They are not trying to portray a 1 to 1 interpretation of Christianity but instead are using many themes and images relating to it as a jumping off point / inspiration.

In SMT for instance it has been explicitly stated in the series that YHVH is quite literally a false god with the closest thing to an actual god in that series being the one to actually trying to actively fuck over YHVH for being a power hungry cunt. I could elaborate but that would just take to long but will if anyone asks.

In bayonetta then the witches do sell their souls but they are also shadowrun tier of immortal. In that they are pretty much immortal to any sort of natural death so she has nothing to fear which is then compounded with her confidence making it so that it is part of her and even Jeanne character to not be afraid because of said confidence.
They also made contracts which ,as shown in bayo 2 by one of the summons attacking her, but since they get their power from said contacts they are beholden to uphold them or like instantly die from their immortally being taken away.
So really the problem here OP is that like always you are being a huge faggot and a dumb one at that. You are taking the shit you are seeing as shallowly as possible so that then you can complain about it like some sort of punk ass beta bitch to whatever fuck end game you have in mind.
The dumb part comes in to play when you completely ignore the japs and their beliefs. Since Shinto, Buddhist, or whatever the fuck of the prominent religious over there have a huge thing with balance. Their religious have things about seeking balance and shit which then bleeds into their media since when they write one can only truly write what they know. So since they know about that and since the home market as whole almost all know that. They include it in there as a trope that their own will get.

Reminder that the Jews had it coming, and it's a surprise God didn't just give up on them all by the time of the golden calf incident

I also like how they take descriptions of demons and angels from the bible and incorporate them into their design.

Why does God permit humans to reject Him?

>This thread
ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

something something free will matters

Because God wishes humans to love and love requires freedom.

...

>Why do Japs misinterpret Christianity so hard?
They don't do a 1-to-1 adaptation of christian themes. Instead they take what sounds cool in biblical mythology and try to wrap it around a franchise for westaboo appeal.

That's what they do with a lot of things, really. Like "vectors" in elfen lied. Or literally anything in evangelion.

>sensual goddess spread the pheromone
Are people supposed to actually read this?

Why would Satan punish people in hell for doing exactly the same as himself? Shouldn't he be routing the people and go "see that guy up there? We'll make a ladder and smack him" or something like that?

Because surprisingly the devil is an evil, petty ass

But can't God subdue love itself, and make it something that does not require suffering?

You're confusing Satan and Lucifer. Satan is God's judge and arbiter. Lucifer is the rebellious angel cast down.

Satan doesn’t rule over hell

He's a cunt too and is secretly broing it up with God.

>megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will
It's basically the gestalt executive authority that humans were given in Record Breaker 2 which lead to the start of the series.

Isn't it super convenient that the dominant religion from your birtplace just happens to be the correct one?

I think because they're not ashamed of what they enjoy they're much MUCH better at making something aesthetically appealing than the west. I don't think that equates to being creative. Most of the new concepts in games nowadays are born in the west then improved upon by others. You'll see endless examples of this combination in jap games where they take fan favorite concepts/settings/ideas and mash them together in a predictable overarching design that suits their methodical culture.

Hell is separation from God. Alternatively it can be seen as a place where you suffer in the most heinous way possible as punishment until the Second Death at the end of all things.

I understand the sentiment why we can't be told to just be a douchebag in life and then Satan will be youe best pal in hell, but it just never made sense to me.

That would be incoherent. God is a rational God.

They tried that and were cast out. Also Satan loves to spite God and his creations.

Smt does not think in terms of good vs evil but rather law vs chaos whereas YHWH is extreme law though you may not like how he does it. Neutral is an option too but thats just the act of killing all of your friends because they were being cunts. That pretty much sums up every belief system in smt.

>rational God
That was supposed to be lower case "god".

>I don't think that equates to being creative.
It does.
>Most of the new concepts in games nowadays are born in the west then improved upon by others. You'll see endless examples of this combination in jap games where they take fan favorite concepts/settings/ideas and mash them together in a predictable overarching design that suits their methodical culture.
Action RPGs, started by the Japanese.
Tactical RPGs, started by the Japanese.
JRPGs that aren't the above have a different set of combat system which aren't found in Western games.

You're retarded. Play some games that aren't popular or do some basic readings outside of Western games before spouting nonsense.

That kind of thoughtlessness is what gets innovators a la Galileo murdered for heresy.

Not vidya related but Silence is a good movie mixing Christianity and Japland if anyone's interested

>Allows satan to come to the garden and convince the totally innocent A&E to eat the fruit.

>Satan
Lilith. And she was already in the garden. And Human.

Bible is shit and needs to be improved to be entertainment. Kinda like how Peter Jackson fixed LOTR.

Artistic freedom, they dont have to stick to the same millenia old script

Fanfiction.

Dante solved this by trapping Satan in Hell too. They're all trapped in there and the demons torture humans because there's nothing better to do.

So according to you, genocide is okay as long as God is the one doing it? Legitimate question.

Why are there suddenly so many Christfag threads being made on Cred Forums complaining about MUH MISTREATMENT OF CHRISTIANITY or WOW MAN LOOK HOW COOL OUR erm...THIS RELIGION IS DON'T YOU ALL WANT TO JOIN?

In views where Satan is, himself, punished this makes no sense and is not anything but a view amongst laypeople and not doctrine anywhere.
In views like the Kaballah where Satan is just working for God this is coherent.
>Galileo
user pls

They need to fuck off back to /x/ desu senpai.

yes, God gives and God takes away
Galileo would have been fine if he just accepted that sometimes the church suppresses things for the greater good, eventually science would have made progress yet he tried to force his atheistic agenda on everyone along with his findings

Its not "misinterpretting it" it's more creative license. Bible stories make shit modern stories. They did not ages as well as Aesops fable or Brothers Grim. Imagery is borrowed for its historical, cultural, and artistic significance. Not the bible itself. They arent pouring over the bible saying "Dude this is a sick story to extrapolate a narrative out of!" Rather they are looking at historical art for inspiration. A lot of which only leaned on religion cause that is how you got funding or to get away with it.

It's counter culture. Cred Forums thrives on being contrarian.

>greater good
I fucking hate that phrase, its an excuse to do what you damn well know is wrong. There is no greater good, there is right and wrong and suppressing truth and killing innocents is clearly wrong.

Because they want to. Christians have been a big thing on Cred Forums since 2014 and /his/ since conception. People float around all over the place.

Cred Forums thinks they are Christian cause it is "trad" or whatever.

We just need to meme christianity into the mainstream again so these cunts fucking leave

>extremist monogamist even 2000 years ago and still pisses off hedonists to this day
>hippie
?

>it's okay to kill people who make radical scientific discoveries for "the greater good"
What greater good are we talking about here?

That's a terrible idea, life is shitty enough without having to pretend to care about religion irl.

Are you.... stupid? Are you.... retarded or something?

>greater good
>I fucking hate that phrase

Reminder that Arius won in the end and most modern laypeople's conception of Jesus is that he's a separate entity subordinate to God.

baka desu senpai

>yes, God gives and God takes away
The problem with that is twofold.
One the voices in your head are part of a mental illness and you shouldn't listen to them.
Two people will abuse this to justify terrible things "god said so."

Chill dude, it's fiction just like the bible

Isn't the Bayonetta thing like, so many demons want her soul, when she dies, they'll constantly be warring with each other too much to actually torture her?

>Yes, I know of that, I'm just curious what point you're making from that.
Not who you were responding to, but you are mistaken mostly on scope. Since while YHVH can possibly have the power to create shit. He has created nothing and is not ,at least not anymore, in any other definition of the word a Demiurge of any sort.

YHVH has so far created jack fucking shit and ,at the very least as far as the games have explained, is just taking advantage of was already there to begin with. YHVH was the great wills avatar at first but then rebelled against the great will due to power hungry lust. So shit existed before YHVH really so then again in any name or definition of the word he is not in any way, shape, or form Demiurge

...

The Portuguese tried to conquer Japan through Christianity and burned down Buddhist and Shinto Shrines in the process before Sengoku Warlords went Hell No and went Yamato on the Portuguese.

>Take influence from historical piece of literature.
>make it better and more relevant.
>WTF WHY DID YOU MISINTERPRET IT.
autism.

That's not at all true. The majority of laypeople grasp Jesus as God, they just don't understand it much beyond this basic point.

>only have surface level understanding of foreign religions
>LOL ITS SO SIMPLE

>Galileo
>murdered
What?
He was put into house arrest, not killed.
Nor was it because of religion but because his political enemies got ammo against him when he openly mocked in print the ”wait and see” approach of one of the most important political figures of his time, the Pope.

Where is this said? I've literally never heard of this before.

Then who is the Demiurge?

Nobody bitches about fucking around with Norse mythology

>YHVH has so far created jack fucking shit and ,at the very least as far as the games have explained, is just taking advantage of was already there to begin with.

My memory of the games might be fucked but looking up the wiki he is listed several times as the creator god.

this I don't usually mind it unless they aren't going anywhere with the themes and don't even try to make sense of it dark souls

Because Norse mythology is only known to people as like "vikings, valhalla are cool" and that's it. It's practically a dead religion.

Ah, you're right. I was thinking of bruno.

Because fear is a powerful tool to keep people in line. Making people fear questioning their beliefs is a god tier strat. You'd be amazed how many people remain within the churches realm of influence just cause of Pascals wager

>Cred Forums discusses religion episode

>what is dungeons and dragons?: the post
not trying to spit on your mom user, thanks for proving my point though and It doesn't btw

>Implying the Japs don't have the best and most accurate perspective of the Christian religion

They saw Christianity as a threat and western plot to brainsash, subvert their government and overthrow their country and decided to cast them out and suppress followers with violent force.

they weren't wrong, just look at Corea.

Even western fedoratippers are still innately shaped from birth by the enormous influence Christianity has on western culture. But the Japs can truly see.

>supresses
That wasn’t Galileo’s issue, the Catholics were paying to print his book in the first place.
His issue is that one requirement they had was to represent the heliocentric theory as well in it and he decided the best way to do it was not simply to discredit it but to include a caricature of the Pope portrayed as a literal retard ”defending” it.

This.

pascals wager is fucking retarded, there's more religions than Christianity that supposedly have eternal damnation and reward.

Honestly this has been very civil so far. Who woulda thought?

Giordano was killed by secular authorities though. (for similar reasons to the Cathars, setting up alternate power structures)

Yeah no shit because they are all employing the same strategy. But most people are fucking retarded and only know the religion they were raised on (kids are also more impressionable) so it still works.

Was he? That I did not know.

The great will created most of everything so if anything he is the only thing that could be called the Demiurge since even for the demon Demiurge he is at the very super least the catalyst for the creation of all since thanks to him humans are even a thing to begin with. With the whole power to give name, shape, form, and power to everything around them

That is not wrong but at the same time not quite right since YHVH is for intents and purposes a false god. Since demons, angels, and their ilk get their power from the believe of humans.
YHVH is a super manipulative being in SMT since while he could have he has purposefully made it so humans know about him but never lay eyes upon him. So to put it simply he is thought to be a creator god by much of humanity form law, chaos, to neutral but in all actuality he is not one.
You are playing as an inhabitant of the world so while to the people playing the game can know better. The player character, his party, and all the npcs do not and have no way of knowing or even learning about it for the most part.
So as far as the inhabitants of the world know due to YHVHs manipulation and mad sick gossip game. Yeah he is a creator god. But full picture he is not in anyway such a thing though again granted he may or may not have the power to do so on actually have the power in him to create stuff on such a large scale to be an actual creator.

Wasn't he burned as a heretic though? I fail to see how that's secular.

what's stupid about his post?

Yes, Japan wouldn't know a single thing about overthrowing and suppressing Koreans with violent force.

The real issue is just how in the world someone can come up with that and be remembered as a genius for it.

>Bruno
He was not killed for being some innovator. That's Protestant propaganda made several hundred years after his death to picture him as a martyr to science. He was put to death for multiple heresies. What he is attributed to being the first for (plurality of worlds) was said decades before by Catholic cardinal Nicholas of Cusa and there was no issue.

Be the hammer not the nail user.

>they get all of its aspects wrong, like God being extremely evil

To answer all of these the timeline is this.

>Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker
Humans overthrow the administrators and every human gains administrative/executive authority. Which gives them the ability to make things real by believing in them.

When this happens history resets so that humans ALWAYS had this power. This is the prime SMT world that they all spawn from. Humans are now individually and collectively god and decide the fate of the world. Collectively this is called the Great Will and it is the true god of the SMT verse.

There have been many games in the series where YHVH has not been the primary god because the creator god is whoever people believe it to be at the time. For the most part it's YHVH but sometimes it's Brahma and others it's Mother Earth.

That beats me as well.

99% of the time someone was executed over heresy after being demanded to reecant it’s due to secular authorities judgement.
Monarchs weren’t super-keen on giving foreign theologues powers of judge and executioner in their domain.

Either way, heresy is not a death sentence worth crime. Much less the cruel punishment of being burned at the steak.

Shin Megami 5.

Odin (doi)
Thor (nocturne)
Mara
Jack Frost
Mandrake
Agathion
Ose ("new")
Lamia
Kaiwan
Titania (green dress)
Grihmekala
Legion
Mitras(white dude)
Cu Chulain
Nekomata
Sarasvati
Pixie
Decarabia
Cybele
Hua po
Silky
Leanen Sidhe
Lilim (new one)
Parvati
Incubus
Rangda
Belphegor
Power
Ganesha (nocturne blue belly)
Kelpie
Metatron
Gabriel (old design)

Need to add from the other vid.

To /jp/ with this faggotry

Oh.
Okay then. This makes much more sense.

*stake

Even in Rome it wasn’t the Church burning people, though they probably knew he was fucked when they handed him ovr

Not now but at the time, likely. For that same reason the Catholic Church denies the death penalty generally. We have advanced beyond the necessity of it.
>steak
How do you like yours prepared, user? Medium Well pleb here.

Ignore the fact the Earth was full of people being eaten, raped, and murdered by half-angel monstrosities everywhere prior to the Great Flood.

>anti death penalty
Probably one of the least defensible positions of the recent pope theologically desu.

medium rare if it's not a tough cut, tough cuts such as rounds are better well done because cooking it thoroughly breaks down the muscle tissues and effectively tenderizes it. I am very hungry.

I just killed Jimenez in like 4 or 5 turns just by having a demon that reflects Gun even though every attack except for the regular could one shot me
It felt like having 4 or 5 orgarms at the same time

>the fact
Why are you using that word in am event proven to have not taken place.
"Its a metaphor!" Remember? He is also allegedly told a very good god fearing man to kill his son only yo go "lol its just a prank bro" at the last second. He is the YouTube prankster of historical literature.

Stupid fanfictions aside, who was the snake in the garden?
Was it satan or was it lucifer?

Nigga was kind of retarded wasn't he?

Why can't it have just been a snake?

A snake

Snakes can’t talk you silly

Is hell mentioned to be eternal torture in the bible? I thought hell was mentioned only vaguely and most of the hell concepts were from Dante's fanfiction

Because then we would need to pretend adam and eve spoke python, and it makes god even more of an asshole for creating an animal that likes to fuck with the mentally disabled for shits and giggles

t.snake

We've had this thread three times a day for 3 days
Stop it already

Is that where we're drawing the line here? It's okay for a magical god to exist but a snake can't have talked at one point in history?

It's really not that hard to misrepresent.

When you hear about "Powerful being decides to flood the entire world" it is hard not to think "Man, there must've been a whole lotta children and babies that got drowned by this one dude"

As such it is easy to interpret God as some sort of all powerful tyrant

Yeah, the Catholic position is that the death penalty is necessary as the last option to defend the common good. However nowadays we have enough knowledge and infrastructure to not require it at all basically. Pope Francis seems to completely miss all the nuance in this and treat the death penalty as incorrect, full stop. Nuance is completely lost to Francis, honestly. I wish the Vatican wasn't having it in on Cardinal Sarah so he could improve upon Francis' public image and ability to speak. Sarah is fantastic. He's my fav for next pope.

>I will never be as epicurean as this user

From what little the devil mentions its just a free gibs tier line waiting for the end of the world
Guess lucifer is too tired to give a shit and still some gambling anf hookers

aren't they the same?

Consistency is important

given the whole multiverse thing. Can you point to me to anything that implies that DS2 affects anything as a out side the universe portrayed in the game?

Since as far as i have understood each game is a world unto itself in which everything that happens or can happen is specific to it outside of the few characters like YHVH and Stephen. With YHVH being like and infinite being spread infinitely thin and Stephen using techno magic shit to be able to slip to and from anywhere and any when(?) he may want to. So even with the world and time resting shit of DS2 anything that happens in only affects that specific universe no?

Lucifer is the guy that told god to go fuck himself
Satan is the guy that brings the end of the world, becomes a dragon and obtains a big titty goth gf

Because it's almost never Christianity and almost always Gnosticism and/or Western Esotericism.

>However nowadays we have enough knowledge and infrastructure to not require it at all basically.
A silly position to anyone whose seen the injustice and inefficiency of the justice system, much less the third world ones the Pope is also talking to.

I don't see how they are not the same in your explanation
have you read the bible? Honest question, not an insult

Idon't see how failures of the state make this point null.

Lucifer is fanfiction too. Hell, Lilith is less fanfiction than him. Satan is just God's professional troll, trying to get humanity to fuck up so there's always someone to punish.

So in hell you just kinda dick around doing whatever?
It's not heaven but it wouldn't be too awful

>obtains a big titty goth gf
wut?

Yes i have read it
From what i remember the 2 guys are separated
Lucifer is the name of the fallen angel and shares the same name with the king that wanted to build the tower of babel
Satan is the guy that brings the end of the world and god needs him for his next big step on his master plan

There was not a multiverse until after DS2. The multiverse only exists because of many people believing many different things leading to many different realities. YHVH is just the dominant force in most of them.

>forgetting the whore of babylon that appears in the book of revelation

They just think the nomenclature sounds cool

God is also omnipotent.

What’s irrational is why he would make a big faggot like yourself that needs to trip to shitpost in an off topic thread

He just is everything

>when people of faith take these games seriously

These are the same games that have God call you a punk ass bitch, and tell you that their going to kick your ass...

Keep in mind that heaven was also closed according to jesus and his death was the key to opening it
So at the end of the day you just have to wait in line if you die

I got curious and googled. This guy says Lucifer was a certain king, while Satan is the good ol' demon.
ap.lanexdev.com/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=1091

My trip exists without cause.
And yes, God is omnipotent. That means having all powers. Incoherent shit is not a power and, if I were, it would make your job harder as now you have to deal with being able to be wrong without it making any sense to you.

It’s the failures of humans if anything, the Argentine mistakenly believes we’ve ”progressed” in morals.
In either case the removal of the justice component from this so-called ”humanitarian” punishment is society-degrading and inevitably leads to vigilantism and blood feuds when people see the murderers and rapists of their children get off scot-free, or near enough.

...

I always though the story of the tower was gods way of telling the story of his fallen angel while also being a passive aggresive bitch and doing the whole based on true events thing

>Nuance is completely lost
as it is on you apparently. Since while the death penalty may be an acceptable thing, how do we as imperfect beings come up with a system that would make it an impossibility for an innocent being killed by such a thing? Pretty much god being the only perfect being. Coming up with such a system is impossible since again people not being perfect eventually an innocent will die cause of it.
Pretty much all modern day death penalty systems have lead to innocent people already being killed by them. So if one accepts reality then yeah advocating for the death penalty being and allowed thing for imperfect beings to established is kinda of a bad thing that will just lead to innocent people also being killed by it..

And I found a bible.org post too.
bible.org/article/lucifer-devil-isaiah-1412-kjv-argument-against-modern-translations
I won't bother to actually argue because it's pointless but from these two it's clear that the confusion is over the king, and Satan is indeed the one who fell from heaven as well as the end of the world dude.
desu this is the first time I see anyone claim it's two people

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxwnHVr192A

>people who take the Bible literally

>Since while the death penalty may be an acceptable thing, how do we as imperfect beings come up with a system that would make it an impossibility for an innocent being killed by such a thing?
Through study, as the west has been improving upon for centuries. The role of the state is not invalid just because it can be used incorrectly.

>people who use a literally/metaphorical dichotomy when discussing any text

>unironic christfag on Cred Forums
this always makes me laugh

I hope you're not using smt as an example because that's not christianity.

>Lilith is fanfiction
What? I thought she was canon at least in the hebrew bible.

JHWH is a jewish god, not christian. Christian God is trinity.

Come at me, user.

Man, I hate religion discussions on these boards. I always end up with more questions than answers. Props to wolfsem for trying at least

Isnt lilith the girl that ends up becoming the whore of babylon?
I mean she fucked an archangel, whos to say she wouldnt take the dragon d

Oi, I got you on questions if you want it.

>just because it can be used incorrectly.
Humanity is not perfect though. So yeah while stuff may improve a full proof system will never exist. Since every system will always in some way or form depend on a person doing something or other. So it will always just be a matter of time.

I can't stomach these threads anymore, I'm devoutly Christian and it gets old clearing up the same atheists misconceptions about biblical doctrine over and over again.
>Lol so ur christian huh then how come you eat shellfish and wear mixed fabrics hahahahaha btfo come back from that one

Ok, first one, what's up with all the revisionism in christianity? Like, why have so many rewrites and branches with their own versions? I would think that a god that demands such high standards of his people that he's willing to cleanse all planetary life would get pretty fucking pissed at people trying to rewrite his messages

What about a game set in the world of A Canticle For Leibowitz, where you play as a papal messenger who is slowly drawn into various intrigues?

Or Ace Attorney but with Father Brown?

Alright. I can probably agree to that, though I don't want to assume what we are fully capable of. Not sure what point you're trying to make is though.

>we can’t stop 100% of all crime
>so why even try at all
Silly af t b h.

Their culture offers a different perspective on Christianity. Even when they're benign towards they religion they still come up with silly stuff like Jesus' secret Japanese brother. They take things more literally, generally

But even then this is fiction so who cares

What do are your thoughs on the tower of babylon story?
Other than the reason for why we speak different lenguages i always assumed it was the story of how the angel lucifel fell from grace and god basically telling humanity him and satan are 2 different beings

Hebrew bible is considered fanfiction/not-canon by everyone except jews though

People twisting the storys for their own gain or giving them their own interpretation, after a while i assume god just started not giving a shit because at the end of the day when you die you can ask him all the retarded questions you want

>Are you not of more value than they?
I dunno, am I?

You've also got to remember that the first Christian missionaries in Japan were hellfire-and-damnation hardliners backed by multiple terrifyingly superior military forces. Right from the start they got Christianity as understood by a few crazy 16th-century Portuguese men with a tenuous grasp of Japanese.

That's just because the Japs don't give a fuck if their media is right, they just take what they think is cool, and it's not like they care if someone gets offended, they have a fucking anime where Jesus and Buddha are roomates and do silly things

When some people think the book is not in fact a work of fiction the distinction is actually of the utmost importance. This a dream sequence in a game...

>YHVH is just the dominant force in most of them.
There is only one YHVH though. Just like only one Stephen and the great will being the only constants to ever exist. Hell Stephens whole fucking shtick is being the one who made, spreads, and has improved the summoning app.

Though to add multiverses do not exist because of believe though but because of actions. Every action has made a different universe meaning that all endings and such are cannon. Which means that all of DS2 endings are cannon as well.
Like shit makes no damn sense to me unless one accepts that everything ever fucking established just got thrown out the window just for a single damn game when even the other spin offs have kept inline with that shit.

*Isnt a.

Japan likes to practice drive-by wikipedia history for their shit. Why you get King of England's anime.

To be fair we do the same thing with foreign shit. People like foreign stuff. Hence SPEARMANII.

SMT was also inspired by the original Devilman, innit?

>Kills almost all life on earth because of bad men.
>Does nothing to stop bad men from reinhabiting the earth after the flood, even though he could easily do it.

His project didn't go the way it supposed to so it's kinda logical to wipe it out and start anew. Then when it became apparent that wiping didn't correct all wrongs, you say so fuck it, let's work with what we have for now.

Not really. There was an occult fad in the 80s that books and animu and games all jumped on, and Digital Devil Story came from that.

It's almost as if the west does the same thing to oriental philosophy in movies and videogames. Really activates my almonds.

Fair enough. Kinda goes against his established M.O. tho
Second question, is there any weight or merit to the idea that there could be many true/real gods in existence? As in, would it be possible to have god coexisting with the like s of the greek pantheon as well as minor regional deities, or is it really all instant damnation for even thinking about acknowleding them?

God is all-knowing so she already knew all of this was going to happen when she created the world.

true, us euphoric individuals should mock their false gods and foolish beliefs, for we are enlightened by reason and intellect......
*tips 360 degrees*
*telemoonwalks behind himself*

>she

>could had just told humanity to stop being a bunch of faggots or they get the black swimming lesson threatment
>nah, im too beta to talk to them, ill just wipe them out because how dare they not act the way i want them to
Was god dare i say it /ourdeity/?

put more effort in if you want my (You), user

advocating for the death penalty will eventually lead to innocents falling victim of it. So while religions/religious texts or whatever may say that it is okay. In practice and accepting what i said as reality means that being okay, accepting and advocating for the death penalty is ultimately a bad thing. While the judgment may be just to those who deserve it. If an innocent dies then would that not mean that those being okay, accepting, and advocating for a thing be responsible for that. I am sure that the common man many times removed would not feel much responsibility or care but someone with as much power and influence to sway minds and opinions as a pope can be said to be more directly responsible for letting innocent people die.

>humanity
>listening
lol

>father
>son
>she

Do Prots actually do that? Literally venerate Paul's message over Christ?

Also I fucking hate predestinarianism. Such a vile thing.

I just figured with all them devils and demons runnin around, the visual designs for them, God is a right cunt and Satan is sympathetic but also a right cunt too.

it's clashes with the concept of free will
free will is also mean that you free to be cancerous fag, but later suffer punishment for it

For all we know he could had greated those other gods to fuck with people for shits and giggles
After all hes the guy that can see the future but still lets one of his sons rebell against him and the end of the world reads like a fucking bad fanfiction

Did it ever occur to you people that what you view as mistakes or failures on God's part are actually all part of a slow-burning plan to teach us and a redemption process that will culminate in the perfect kingdom at the end of time? Or that God entrusts us to display a level of responsibility for our own actions and the well-being of each other so as not to be considered automatons? Never mind that by even trying to put to question a being who created the universe and could unform everything you've ever known in an instant, you're like ants on a leaf trying to reign in the machinations of the gardener according to how you understand them. Pitiful

Why did Mastema fight Archangels alongside Akira? It doesn't make any sense. Did he betray the big guy? Or he never served him in the first place in this universe?

the point that that nerd was making was that the foreign and exotic is more often than not viewed with awe to those experiencing said foreign and exotic shit. So while yes shit came from a fad during a specific time. The basis for interesting exotic shit being presented to foreigners of such stuff is still an underlying basis for this turning out how it did.

>advocating for the death penalty will eventually lead to innocents falling victim of it
But in Christianity getting killed is the best thing that can happen since as long as you live there is still the risk that you might sin in the future.

>like God being extremely evil
This is why I hate religion-cucks.

Even if you want to believe in imaginary friends at least have the fucking human rationality to question them.

>Humanity
>Listening
Motherfucker even after the Rapture is supposed to happen you'll still have people trying to kill the prophets that are supposed to preach and people denying God even with proof the end of days according to scripture is happening.

>advocating for the death penalty will eventually lead to innocents falling victim of it.
So how is that any different from any other punishment?
Losing 25 years of your life in a concrete box for instance.

That’s an argument for higher judging standards, hardly one for the abolition of capital punishment.

But if he wanted humanity to have free will why did he let the snake trick the dumb bitch to eat the apple?
Or hell, why did he make women more retarded than men

IDK, why did Todd stop saying you can climb that moubtain.
Why did Sean Murray revise what "Online play" meant so many times? Truly great mysteries of the world.

I don't think they were aiming for christianity specifically here, it's mostly jewish actually.

Yeah but Murder/Suicide is terrible else you would have had a Kool-Aid incident.

It was their free will to be retards and eat the apple he explicitly told them not to eat, both were equally retarded

Being Christian means that Jesus has forgiven and removed all of your sins, past, present and future. You can't undo your salvation by slipping up and sinning, that's not to say that sin doesn't carry its consequences but a Christian can be more secure than your warped view of the faith

Free will was kinda scientifically disproven decades ago bro....

>how is death different from prison
???????

Masterma is the true lawfagg, hes the guy that obeys the one true god and tells yhvh to go fuck himself
He mentions several times in strange journey that he doesnt give a shit about yhvh

There was one reality dominated by the Akashic record appointed administration.

In record breaker you destroy the entire system and reality is now based on what humans believe. This now leads to many realities. YHVH exists in all realities as does every other being but their power is limited by how many people believe in them. YHVH just has the most people that believe in him. He isn't dominant in every reality.

The Great will is the power of every Human in every reality.

Fuck off nigger the Japs want to make a fun game because they think Christian concepts are cool and foreign so they made pokemon but they're all entities from various religions/cultures from around the world. They don't want to make some high budget Bible game or some shit

>Ok, first one, what's up with all the revisionism in christianity?
Would I be right to understand this as you asking why people change teaching between branches and, sometimes, over time? It is always wrong to see doctrine change as eternal doctrine does not change. Groups like the Episcopalians (who now accept gay marriage) claim their changes on things just being made for the time and being able to be done away with now as we're "beyond" it. However they claimed it as doctrine before so they are obviously just fucking up. These changes are basically political or motivated by worldviews in the area they are in. It's always bullshit.

I can go into further detail but you'll have to ask what kind of revisions you're speaking about.
It's a story of pride in revolt of God to my understanding.
A distinction is important but the literal/metaphorical dichotomy is EXTREMELY limiting and due to it not helpful at all. The Book of Psalms is literally a book of poetry/hymns. The Gospel of Mark is written as an eyewitness account. The Book of Revelation is prophecy. Genesis is a collection of stories patched together into a text, starting with a creation myth. This stuff is not properly labelled by such a limiting dichotomy and so the dichotomy fails to be useful.
>So while religions/religious texts or whatever may say that it is okay. In practice and accepting what i said as reality means that being okay, accepting and advocating for the death penalty is ultimately a bad thing.
The role of the state is to protect the common good. If death is the only way to ensure the protection of the common good then it can be warranted. is entirely right in his judgement, I find. This is nothing specific to the death penalty and so it just is an argument against the state itself or for higher judging standards.

It's actually popular to put what Jesus is recorded saying over basically anything else.

this

>death is worse than living out the rest of your life in excruciating solitary confinement
Or alternatively.
>It’s just to garnish the wages of the victims whose Child was raped and murdered to pay for the humanitarian imprisonment and medical treatment of the murderer.

Amazing. Every word of what you just said... was wrong.

...

>white supremacy
How to tell you're a sad little SJW 101.

Reddit please go

>god refuses to give an answer as to why they couldnt eat the apple
>a creature that god created tells them that god is just fucking with them and nothing bad will happen if they eat from the tree
>god stills throws a tantrum and acts like it isnt his fault for even creating the tree in the first place
Bravo kojima

Nice argument, christcucks.

>excruciating solitary confinement
They aren't throwing him in a hole or prison dimension or some shit. He's in fucking prison not Tartarus. What the fuck is solitary about that.

Nigga this is Cred Forums current year, you have more Christians and Deus vult larpers than atheists.

I seem to recall a lot of questioning. Yeah there's lot being a good goy but there's also Jesus doubting himself, Moses or some other jew bickering with God, Muhammad not wanting to become a prophet till his wife (the christmas cake not the loli) told him to do it. Mother Teresa (Who I know had a lot of bad features or bad behavior or whatever this is just about pious people) had critical self-doubt about her faith and God. time.com/4126238/mother-teresas-crisis-of-faith/
It makes me think orthopraxy makes a lot of pious people put up the act. Not that they'd become fedoras if not for the rigid orthopraxy of their society, just that it makes them shut up and bottle up the natural doubt and skepiticism. Or you become even more orthoprax in conduct to try and fill that hole, and it's just a spiral.

Jesus told the jews to go kill themselves though

it teaches to accept authority
and who has highest authority if not the God himself

>My name is not important.....

Don't take the OT as literal. Hell Christianity benefits the less you pay attention to the prequel.

Come to think of it it wasn't lot. He shagged his daughters. Whose the guy who had satan and God play The Sims on him? Job, that's it.

I can give you a proper argument if you promise to not run away without responding once you're refuted. I'm not working without my (You).

Well, its natural to have doubts as a human being
Even more if the guy thats giving the orders refuses to speak to anyone or even explain what the fuck does he want from youy

Subahibi gets it right.
Unironically.

>Religious tripfag thinking he has any valid arguments
lmao, good one

Is Protestantism or Catholicism the true redpilled Christianity, Cred Forums?

Actually Nasu is very knowledgeable on legends, but chooses the lamest shit. For example, Herakles is dark because one of the legends mentions his leaden skin color. And yet he chose to depict Gilgamesh as a pretty boy because he didn't like old bearded men as final bosses.

The problem is inherent because it is a scapegoat. The book of Genesis is 100% bullshit for example. So either it was a lie for manipulation or a metaphor. The latter is happily accepted by christfags but why should I then care? If the book of genesis is a metaphor than I prefer Aesop's fable. You can being up other books that would claim existance of god, but none really claim anything of consequence are also bullshit. Admittedly nobody uses the metaphor analogy for the BS in the new testament(at least not as much) but you have to come to a cross roads. Because there was no virgin birth, biology disproved that. You cant walk on water or commit alchemy, you can't come back from the dead etc. So it becomes its all a metaphor, which is fine but then it ranks behind Brothers Grim or Aesops Fable. Rather than be taken as a divine text. Or its literal in which case the whole thing is a sham. Once you realize the dichotomy you realize there is no basis for Christianity only can exist in the blurry haze of "its a metaphor *wink* *wink* nudge nudge*" . Its great that you guys now realize there was no great flood or ark. The world was not created in 7 days etc. But now follow through with the logical conclusions of these realizations.

Divine animism

>dont eat from the tree until i say so,because either way im sharing the fruit from the tree with you, but not now
Was it that hard?

Baptist is.

I guess that's a "no" then.
I'll be here when you're ready.
Protestantism is the big no. Apostolic Christianity is all very good and close ideologically. Catholicism is the correct one.

Hey christian user, was it ever mentioned why satan suddenly decided to become a 12 headed dragon and get himself a new gf?

Yeah, keep pretending, I'll be waiting.

I want to get behind Catholicism but your current Pope is a cuck who supports Atheism and homosexuality. How do I reconcile that?

why the fuck would he explain shit to humans?
it's not about apples and whatnot, it's about the act of defiance of God's will
man was given a free will, so he can't just shift the blame for his own transgressions

Both are pretty shit.
Catholicism has the better grounding but they routinely ignore it due to their political leadership wanting to play catch-up with western liberalism.
Protties just make any old shit up so you get people who simultaneously believe in fault-free divorce, that homos destroyed marriage, that other religions are evil, that jews are their spiritual superiors, that borders are evil and that scriptural literalism is right. (except when it clearly condemns the aforementioned stuff)

Why is rejecting pagan compromises and hierarchical shit the big no?

Still better than a child fucker enabling Nazi?

>never Christianity and almost always Gnosticism
Gnosticism IS the true Christianity though.

Can someone explain the last one? Never read any of the texts.

What did Luther get wrong? I did some light reading and many of the priests and popes in the early medieval era abused their wealth and power. Kings conspired to put popes into power which served their political aims. Is there a way to distinguish between false priests, if such a thing exists, versus real priests?

Red pill me on Gnosticism

They were mentally retarded children that didnt even spend more than a few days into the world
The fuck did you expect to happen?

>Or demons being allies
In the story of the garden of Eden, the devil - the snake - was the embodiment of knowledge. Awareness. After eating the fruit humanity was redpilled and could no longer live in blissful ignorance.
The Jap take on it (Persona 5 is freshest in my memory) uses demon allies to represent this. They are your self determination, your individuality. The things given to you by God which ultimately allow you to transcend God and break from his control.
That's what I take away from it.

Christianity is literally the religion of the cuckold.

You'd be better off as s edgelord fedora tipper reactionary.

Eastern Orthodox, fuck Catholicism

Someone wanted to make a sequel. It was full of retcons and shit. But Still probably better. I guess the goal was to make people more loving and forgiving cause otherwise the original was pretty fucking brutal. All and All still better than the third one.

SMT is as much about Christianity as Devilman. ((Not at all you faggot))
It's not supposed to be any kind of a reasonable interpretation, it's a fucking game. The point of this thread is to have a shitposting 'debate'.
There's even an actual god above the YHVH which is more like demiurge so it's not like it matters anyway.

Jesus pulled the good old my dad owns your sorry ass, so you cant kick me out of my own club
Then he returned to eath because he was only pretending to be dead

To me the GOAT religions are polytheistic. Animism is great. Buddhism is great.
Monotheists are cucked as much as atheists or those dumb agnostics.

>>What did Luther get wrong?
Pretty much most things theologically. Even Protestants tend to ignore him nowadays. (mainly because wrote nasty and true things about jews but hey)
>Kings conspired to put popes into power which served their political aims.
Protestantism is the main reason why Kings stopped having to care though, landgrabs of Church property and riches is the main reason why Lutheranism became so popular in northern Europe.

>Pope is a cuck who supports Atheism and homosexuality.
you dont know what you're talking about. francis pays not but lip-service to liberal groups. deep down he's a pretty hard line conservative

>Buddhism
>polytheistic religion

why does satan get such a bad rap in christianity? you read job which is like his only real mention in the old testament, and he's totally working with god at his behest, and then some thousands of years later he's the source of all evil or shit

its all very manicheanistic to me

Misread your post. Please disregard.

>god wrote the worlds first fanfic and just started pulling things out of his ass that seemed 2 deep 4 u and hoped nobody would call him out for it
Poor satan, now the guy has to drink all the water in the world just to create a shitty river that people manage to cross line its not big deal

Nigger have you even read the Old fucking Testament before?

Why is it that the people most ignorant about Christianity are actual fucking Christians?

>tells humans they will die if they eat the fruit
>eats fruit
>humanity loses their cushy lifestyle and starts dying
Well would you look at that

Smt game where we kill allah when?

>Why is it that the people most ignorant about Christianity are actual fucking Christians?
You know the answer

You say that is if a mistake was made.

Because his job is to larp as the supreme evil

OP literally posted one.

God once ordered a man to kill his son and went "jeez, no need to do it, it was just a prank bro" while he was about to kill his son

For whatever reason, despite having an answer to the problem of evil in the OT, Christians aren't content with that and need to come up with some bullshit idea of satan being the source of bad things.

It feels like a lot of Christians don't really understand that bad shit that happens to you is in fact from god.

The Old Testament is full of metaphors. God didn't kill anyone in a literal flood.

Probably has to do with the fact the New Covenant and the New Testament take precedence for Christians over the Old Testament. Though the old one still applies, the former promises salvation for non-Jews and those not servants of Jews.

In SMT every deity's existence is based on human observation. SMT YHVH is like that because that's how humanity interprets him at that moment, and he acts to keep humanity working to interpret him like that so he can stay top dog.

Why are you so hellbent on trying interpret this literally? The moral of the story is - bad things happens when you defy the authority of those above you. So when given an order you don't question intentions of you superiors, you just do it, or obey the laws of your king. Kings are anointed by God to rule on earth like if he is doing it. And other lords or military officers are installed by King and by proxy by God, etc.
Religion was always a tool to keep masses under control and in check. And regular peasant in ancient times was no different from retarded child, so you give him a word of God so he wouldn't do retarded things like sleep with his sister or think that steel the property of the lord is ok.

The Book of Revelation is a book of prophecy so there is heavy use of imagery.
>The book of Genesis is 100% bullshit for example.
The book of Genesis is a collection of different stories collected together into a text. To roundly state the genre of the whole text is just ignorance no matter who is doing it.

>Because there was no virgin birth, biology disproved that. You cant walk on water or commit alchemy, you can't come back from the dead etc.

These are all classified as miracles, though, so obviously no one is disagreeing that there is no naturalistic way to do them. The only disagreement is your implication that you don't believe miracles are possible, but that's obvious you don't as you're blatantly a naturalist. No one but the most ridiculous and hard to find of radicals claim these as metaphor. And also I don't think alchemy is mentioned in the Bible.
You're confusing people saying some texts are not written as eyewitness account or blunt fact as thinking all non-naturalistic elements to Christianity are being explained away as metaphors when this isn't true but in the mind of ignorant anti-theists.
>the rest
You're all over the place.
As I've already said, the literal/metaphorical dichotomy is not a respected dichotomy whatsoever as it is limited to the kinds of texts we are dealing with. No one uses it besides the undereducated on the subject.
No major Christian group believed the universe was created in a period of 6-7 24 hour spans until the Young Earth Creationists. That is a far more complex situation.
If you want the Christian understanding of the deluge, I'll just give you. newadvent.org/cathen/04702a.htm
I'd have to say your understanding is wrong there too.

What about the Plagues of Egypt? I'm pretty sure he didn't "metaphorically" kill all those firstborns.

Imagine the New Agers / Scientologist of their day but add on a hatred of the physical world, belief in "divine knowledge" as the way to heaven (not actual knowledge though), pseudo-subservience to women (but not actually letting them preach), reincarnation horseshit and a rejection of everything that arose from sexual reproduction like foods and practicing sodomy. (of course if they'd actually known about photosynthesis they'd probably have starved)

Contrary to popular belief the reasons the big Gnostics like the Cathars were purged was because of murders of Christian priests.

Buddhism is a collection of beliefs and practices without gods, numbnuts.

Why are jews so insufferable and malicious in real life if they're God's chosen?

There is no historic evidence of the plagues so yes they didn't happen either.
Stop trying to interpret everything literally.

>Eastern Orthodox
Allows divorce for reasons of "economia" against Jesus own commands on the subject.

...

>lucifer is so bro he doesnt even like to fuck with people for shits and giggles
>he just sits around in his luci cave waiting for they day he can finally kill himself

There is evidence of the flood though.
There are fossils of plants on the sea bed that suggest they were once above land.

But he was gonna share the apple with them either way, wtf god

I should be probably be asleep now but this is a pretty good thread.

>they get all of its aspects wrong, like God being extremely evil
Am I really on this board with christfags nowadays? What the fuck happened?

>All religions are evil
>All religions are a joke
>Religions are a tool to control the ignorant masses
>I don't care about religions/belief in general
>Religions are false, but useful for breeding positive traits/ideas in the believers.

If you believe any of these things then you haven't made it yet.

The message I get is usually that spirituality is very important but organized religion is doomed to corruption.

He wasn't

>"christians" make the truth sound crazy, like a fedora talking shit about the religious

yikes

The election brought many christian boomers from r/the_donald to Cred Forums.

>that nigger feet licking faggot is actually a badass somewhere deep down! He just pretends to be liberal!
The absolute state of catholicucks

Close - but no cigar! The community aspect is one of the most important parts!

The messian cult doesn't have jesus. Hell, the whole point of smt2 was that people were so sick of waiting for a messiah that they decided to create one

But what is even the point of making him a dragon and giving him a big titty goth gf
Whatever, in a few days im gonna do an hero, then i could ask him all the retarded questions i wantt

I guess but you need to be constantly looking for creepy old men who are up to no good.

The law hero in SMT1 was the messiah.

>So bear my ignorance for a bit, but why the fuck would God create hell anyway?
He didn't, it doesn't even exist anywhere in the Bible. Its a Catholic fairy tail to scare peasants into submission to the crown. Same goes for the "Devil" which simply translates into Adversary.

>Religions are a tool to control the ignorant masses
The only wrong about this is the ignorant part. God/s is/are simply an authority figure you can't refute. Why else would kings be god's chosen and such?
It's an objective fact.

>Buddhism
>without gods
t. Western Hare-Krishna fag with zero understanding of Buddhism.
namo amitābhāya tathāgatāya tadyathā
amṛtbhave amṛtasiddhambhave
amṛtavikrānte amṛtavikrāntagāmini
gagana kīrtīkare svāhā

Or as the nips would say it, namu amida butsu namu fukashi gikō nyorai.

theologically speaking, hell, according to christians, is just being separate from god.

I'm pretty sure they just stole this from Milton though

Because there is no pagan shit in doctrine and Jesus set up the hierarchy Himself.
When people talk about church leaders affecting how they view Catholicism I find St. Augustine very helpful. He was in a debate with a man who thought only the morally excellent could be priests. Augustine's response, quickly paraphrased, is that it is the the grace administered during the sacraments and the authority of the doctrinal teaching does not come from the moral excellence of man, but from God.
>What did Luther get wrong?
He rightly criticized abuses but screwed up theologically very often.
His understanding of justification (sola fide) is wrong.
His rejection of apostolic authority is wrong and damns Protestantism to not be coherent at all epistemologically (try to justify the biblical canon if the bible is the sole and final authority).
His rejection of monasticism, which basically destroyed the prevalence of western spirituality.

Things of the sort. I'm sorry but it's late and I won't be exhaustive.
Some forms of Buddhism have gods - most do in fact. Some do not.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities
This is the truth.

Lets just agree that the story of adam and eve is fucking retarded and is incomplete

>Why else would kings be god's chosen and such?
Genghis Khan said it best.
"I am the punishment of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."

It sounds like you've been reading fanfiction of it frankly

More like Church Fathers a thousand years before Milton.
The same people also have examples of people mocking literal creationism which is why Protties deliberately ignore them. (along with their very very high opinions of Mary)

Tut tut tut, now you're wrong!
One of the important aspects of Christianity is that there is an universal law above the law of man - that even the king is beholden to. Such things are common in other religions as well. Without religions like these the power of the authority would be absolutely complete and tyrannical.

>Protestantism starts "Organized Religion" meme to reject Catholic hierarchy
>lack of organization makes theology in Protestantism go to shit
>now people use the meme to reject Protestantism too

Can you name a bigger failure?
I'll be frank with you, user. I don't know. I tend to not look into prophetic stuff all that much so I would not be educated enough to tell you.
But user, I don't get why you're an hero-ing. A large part of suicide is the interest in escaping but just what result are you expecting from the other side? Would you find that preferable?

Was ghenkis khan the ancestor of my name is not important?

People should read the Old Testament more often, it's pretty fun, full of adventure and drama and shit

Asian societies just don't get it. Korea is one place it's caught on more than others and they started doing some retarded God the mother shit. In the Phillipines they whip themselves with glass for Jesus.

And sex.

>miracles.
You play to many videogames bruh.
I never stated whether Genesis was go be interpreted as a metaphor or not. Given the historical interpretations I don't think any of it was, but that's heresay. My point is the distinction is huge because there is metaphor or falsehood. And when you point out falsehood christfags hide behind metaphor.
As for "muhh naturalist"
You hit the nail of why christfags are stupid on the head. Its not like my opinion man. When they wrote the book a birth from metachlorins in the force seemed legit because they did not have the in depth know how of how fertility works. But its not naturalist. It's quite literally 100% true we know how fertility works and muuh miracles don't work with evolution. And that to the obvious con strategies of enforcing fear of questioning, and "thomas you are blessed but more blessed is he who does not need to see to believe" (the verse that made me realize i was being a conned). But i digress, you should not believe any claim about the world without supporting external evidence to support it. People are too stupid to know this so when claims were made about shit we had no idea about they didn't question it. When we then started getting actual answers backed by evidence this quickly switches to immediately changing certain aspects of certain books to metaphors. Hence the dichotomy being the crux of modern religion, at least its mass appeal.The creation of the world in 7 days for example is no longer palpable. Now for that matter if you need a religeon, Christianity is predicated on the old testament being true, so statistically speaking the jews have a much higher chance of being right, so if you believe in evidanceless claims surely it is the better religion no? I mean Islam is about equal with Christianity in probability why not go with that? Scientology has a higher probability given its ability to adapt to a more modern knowledge base, so why christianity? As education growsThisWillKillIt

How can Catholicucks defend the pope kissing the feet of niggers?

Top reading, user.