Why are so many "Fantasy" and Historical games set essentially medieval Europe instead of using the aesthetics and...

Why are so many "Fantasy" and Historical games set essentially medieval Europe instead of using the aesthetics and cultures of other societies on earth? Hell even within Europe we barely even get Antiquity as a setting.

Isn't everyone bored to death of 800-1600 Europe already?

Other urls found in this thread:

store.steampowered.com/app/230070/The_Age_of_Decadence/
historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/libros/lecturas/T1/LHMT1_033.pdf
getty.edu/art/exhibitions/golden_kingdoms/images/explore/gm_357140EX1_x1024.jpg
khanacademy.org/humanities/art-americas/new-spain/viceroyalty-new-spain/a/featherworks-the-mass-of-st-gregory
hyperallergic.com/273305/plumage-of-the-saints-aztec-feather-art-in-the-age-of-colonialism/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_feather_work
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805201/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>implying people would unironically pay money to play fantasy in some nigger hole country

fpbp

The less technology there is, the less there is to do.

I want roman fantasy games already

because its easy to identify with it. See the new WoW Expansion. (tribal southamerica/africa with trolls and another more eastern european influence with alliance)

Game that really changed this a bit was Guild Wars (2). Only good thing about this game though.

a game centered around Voodoo would be fun

Because other cultures don't make their own games bar Japan.
Shockingly Japan and occasionally China are also represented.

Gee, it's almost like there's a trend to use your own history. Crazy!

because the world is dominated by europeans and their descendents.

niggas too stupid to use wheel dont deserve a game

this
also you have your pic with Lizardmen in warhammer

>i'm retarded and ignorant about history

OP's pic is of the Aztec capital, not some imaginary WE WUZ shit. The artist just made the people look like niggers for some dumb reason

people make games about their own culture and americans dont have culture so they have to fall back on european instead

They had wheels, they used them for toys, pottery production, and in siege towers. They just didn't use them for transportation because there were no horses, cattle, oxen, or mules to make carts with.

store.steampowered.com/app/230070/The_Age_of_Decadence/

>too stupid for wheelbarrow

make a AAA game about my failure of civilization pls

DELETE THIS WHAT THE FUCK

This is you average american
>SAT scores in cali are triple digits

...

There were horses in the Americas until the natives hunted and ate them instead of riding them like a bunch of fucking idiots

You should research why fantasy was based on medieval Europe in the first place.

>nigger!
look Cred Forums, I'm doing it!

I'll bet mesopotato kids ran those along their dicks when they were getting hornyage

A better question would be why use cultures of Earth as inspiration for a fantasy game in the first place? More games should try to be truly unique rather than using Tolkien or medieval Europe as a foundation and changing it up slightly.

Because people would be larping as conquistadors. Nobody wants to play as some furry spic

Scientists have done the math and found out that given the materials they had to work with, by the time you make a wheelbarrow big enough to carry more weight then what they could on their backs using baskets, that the wheelbarrow already weighs more that it takes more effort to use it then to not use it.

Basically, they've have needed more advanced metal use to make wheelbarrows.

>why were they behind in terms of metals

Humans only arrived in the Americas over 45,000 years after they arrived in mesopotama, so civilization and agriculture originated in the Americas much later as well (though, if you account for time, they developed it faster: Humans got to Mesopotamia 60k years ago and developed civilization 6k years ago, so a 54k gap, vs in the americas humans arising 15k years ago and devolping civilization 2.5/3k years agoo, or a 12k gap: so 42k years faster). If you look at where the Aztecs and their neighbors were as an example, they had:

>Metallurgy and Maritime/boating being Chalcolithic/early bronze age level
>Mathematics and economics on par with bronze age cultures
>Military complexity, and the Arts (both material and stuff like poetry and philosophy) being above/at the top of bronze age level, but not quite iron age level
>political/diplomatic complexity, legal, bureaucratic, and municipal systems, and social complexity being iron age tier
>public education, city sizes, agriculture, hydraluiocs, and hygienic practices on par with or ahead of complementary 16th century Europe

If you compare that to where eurasia was 3k years after their first civilizations, you'll see that the Aztecs and the like where mostly where they should be: having the most in common with bronze age and iron age cultures (since 3k years after the first civilizations in eurasia was the transition from the bronze age to the iron age); though being relatively behind in metals/maritime shit, but making up for it by being ahead in terms of sanitation, hydraluics, etc.

Is it you aztec user
How erect were you when these recent sat images revealed the cities to be much bigger and more sprawling than we thought

Somebody post the army deployed and casualty numbers
It is halerious how easily Portugal was able to crush the natives

Because to create a unique culture you must first understand how culture works. Tolkien fucking studied several languages and cultures just to create Middle Earth and its history. World building this in depth requires good research so that it feels authentic.

Conquistadors were spics, you retard

>set in Medieval Europe
I know of three.
Darklands, Inquisitor and Kingdom Come.

Everything else is some funky Americanized conception of Tolkien-land with Castles.

I wouldn't want an aztec setting, I want more game that aren't tactics placed in ancient rome/greece. China would also be dope

>be glorious spic empire
>die to smallpox
OH NO NO NO NO

>china
Never ever
>Rome
Have you played shadow of rome, it's pretty good
>Greece
Spartan: Total warrior

>ancient rome
There's Ryse, but that's hardly an RPG.

>Never ever
What is Jade Empire

I should note hear that even though you see cultures/sites before 1000 BC in the timeline there, there werre only URBAN cultures with actual cities and civilization starting around 1400-900 BC, with the advent of the first Olmec cities.

You are retarded: Horses died out in the americas around 12k years ago, horses weren't domesticated in Eurasia till 8k years ago: People in eurasia didn't know they could be ridden for thousands of years after people in the americas drove them to extinction anyways.

>Is it you aztec user
I'm not OP but i'm in the thread

>How erect....more sprawling than we thought
That was in regards to Maya cities, and it's less that the cities were larger so much as the space between what we thought were seperate cities actually had huge amounts of sub-urhan settlements and towns. between them. Which is weird, since what city would those settlements and towns have belonged to politically (since the Maya weren't unified and seperate cities were usually part of seperate competing kingdoms or were entirely indepedent, competing city states), if they were between cities..

There was also a recent finding using the same mapping technique for a large city the area that the Purepecha empire occupied.

The Black Death was just a new strain of an existing diseases and it killed 30% of europe, why wouldn't a bunch of entirely new diseases you have zero resistance to be even worse?

You should, pretty much everything cool about an ancient chinese or greco-roman game, Mesoamerica would also have, just with their own set of aeshetics, which look rad as fuck, pic related

I agree we need more historical settings in general beyond the typical medivial europe/japan in games other then strategy titles though. Other then Mesoamerica and Greco-roman and Chinese like you meentioned, I'd also really like games set in medivial southeast Asia, like in the Khmer empire.

Hmm, that looks real arcadey. The woman character is wearing a tank top in ancient china? I think what the other poster wanted is a game that tries the least to be historical (at least weapons, armor and buildings are from the era)

BECAUSE THERE WAS NO OTHER FUCKING CULTURE WORTH SHIT AT THE SAME PERIOD

>AMERICAS
SUBHUMANS IN DIRT STILL BUILDING PYRAMIDS WHICH ARE BRAIN DEAD STRUCTURES FOR CHILDREN

>ASIA
RICE FIELDS AND THE OCCASIONAL BAMBOO CASTLE

I'm glad you're still around

I'm pretty sure Mount & Blade has a mod for just about every period piece you're interested about, which is why a lot of people are excited for Bannerlord. I cant wait for someone to port over the Gekikujo mod so that I can have a proper RPG set in Sengoku Era Japan without the fantasy bullshit like Nioh.

I'm fucking tired of Vikings desu

that's great, they still never got beyond the bronze age

>ywn play as a mongol horde and rape chinese women during the formation of the glorious Yuan dinasty

They were beyond bronze age level in a variety of ways, see

>Spainard = Hispanic

Bannerlord with mods hopefully soon.

Angkor/Khmer would be rad. They were apparently some of the largest cities on earth.

Why does nobody give a shit about Babylon?

Right looks really cool. Even if you don't want to play in this exact setting, as OP said someone could draw inspirations from this.

I always liked the subsaharan-africa architecture during the victorian era, are there any games set there?

>tfw no battle simulator where Aztecs survive and acquire steel arms, cavalry and gunpowder

>Every spring the Aztecs used to organize "gladiatorial" combats between their highest military ranks and the enemy elite warriors and commanders who were captured in battle. As part of the festival, nobles from all Mesoamerica were invited to witness these combats.
>Nevertheless, only the Aztec warrior fought with an edged weapon and his movement wasn't limited by being attached to the sacrificial stone. The combat was over when the Aztec warrior was unconcious or when he managed to make his foe bleed enough to keep him from moving. Usually the first combatant for the captured warrior would be his captor and if the captured warrior was victorious he would face several other contenders. According to Bernardino de SahagĂșn, the number of Aztec warriors increased with each victory and there was up to four at the same time.
>A famous Tlaxcaltec warrior, Tlahuicole, prefered to die in gladiatorial combat than return to his country as a spared man. He finally met his end at the sacrificial stone after killing 8 warriors and defeating 20 more.

spanish people do speak spanish yes

>Flower wars differed from typical wars in a number of important aspects. While engaging in a flower war, competing armies would meet on a "preset date at a preselected place.”[5] These places became sacred sites and were called cuauhtlalli or yaotlalli.[2] Combatants signaled the start of war by burning a large "pyre of paper and incense" between the armies.[2] Actual battle tactics also differed from typical warfare.[6] In typical warfare, the Aztecs used atlatl darts, stones, and other ranged weapons to weaken enemy forces from afar.[6] However, in flower wars, the Aztecs neglected to use ranged weapons and instead used weapons such as the macuahuitl[7] that required skill and close proximity to the enemy.[6] The use of these kinds of weapons allowed the Aztecs to display their individual combat ability, which was an important part of the flower war.[6]

>Flower wars involved fewer soldiers than typical Aztec wars did.[2] A larger proportion of the soldiers would be drawn from nobility than during a typical war.[8] These characteristics allowed the Aztecs to engage in flower wars during any time of the year.[8] In contrast, the Aztecs could fight larger wars of conquest only from late autumn to early spring, because Aztec citizens were needed for farming purposes during the rest of the year.[8] Additionally, flower wars differed from typical wars in that there were equal numbers of soldiers on each side of the battle; this was also related to the Aztecs wanting to show off their military prowess.[9]

>At birth, an Aztec boy would receive two symbols. A shield would be placed in his left hand, and an arrow would be placed in his right. After a short ceremony the newly born boy's umbilical cord, shield, and arrow would be taken to a battlefield to be buried by a renowned warrior.

>The Aztec Triple Alliance, which ruled from 1428 to 1521 in central Mexico, is considered to be the first state to implement a system of universal compulsory education.[4][5]

>The children of workers received vocational training in the more relaxed telpochcalli, the “houses of youth” established in every district. The teachers were professionals, but priests played a part. From these institutions, children could go home frequently. Yet they, like those in the calmĂ©cac, received ample instruction in morality and natural history through homilies which they often learned by heart, and of which some survive. “Almost all,” wrote a good observer in the 1560s, “know the names of all the birds, animals, trees and herbs, knowing too as many as a thousand varieties of the latter, and what they are good for.”39 A strong work ethic was inculcated: and children were told that they had to be honest, diligent and resourceful. All the same, preparation for combat was the dominating consideration where boys were concerned: above all, single combat with a matched enemy.

black panther ticket sales would like a word with you, user...

That's the power of the BBC though

I absolutely agree user, the SE asians are super rad. Asura's Wrath, despite more of an interactive anime then a game, might be worth checking out.

>They were apparently some of the largest cities on earth.

So did the Aztecs, actually: Their capital, Tenochtitlan, had 250k people, tying it with Paris and Constantinople as the 5th largest city in the world when the Spanish showed up. It was built on a lake, expanded with artifical islands, had canals cutting across the city between these islands, aqueducts and causeways connecting it to other towns and cities across the lake, had a full sewage system and had dikes that regulated the flow of water across the lake system, see the image in From Bernal DĂ­az's , the True History of the Conquest of the New Spain:

>Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand.

> After we had sufficiently gazed upon this magnificent picture, we again turned our eyes toward the great market, and beheld the vast numbers of buyers and sellers who thronged there. The bustle and noise occasioned by this multitude of human beings was so great that it could be heard at a distance of more than four miles. Some of our men, who had been at Constantinople and Rome, and travelled through the whole of Italy, said that they never had seen a market-place of such large dimensions, or which was so well regulated, or so crowded with people as this one at Mexico.

So make something. Different places make games inspired by their OWN culture, it is not for white people to make something like chinese or black culture inspired videogames, its for them to do it if they want it, and creators really dont seem to want it by the looks of it.
>western made game made to appeal to western audiences
vs
>western made game made to appeal to Africans
This stuff does matter, I too would like to see different inspirations, but more consumers than not do not have any interest in this.

Japan makes its own games about its own culture for instance, they dont always do well overseas but that doesnt matter, its made for Japanese audiences, they dont expect the rest of the world to make this content for them.

Seriously, write or draw or something, make something that isnt inspired by your own culture and see how it goes.

i do

Jomon period would be interesting for Japanese games.
Joemon aesthetic is bizarre and alien as fuck.

That would be cultural appropriation.

Do you have a source for Tlahuicole defating 28 warriors? The accounts i've read say that he beat 8 and the 9th knocked him out

Last horses in America were tens of thousands of years ago. It was the white settlers who brought the horse back to America's wilderness. Natives soon started to appreciate the new animal so much horses started acting as central pieces in territorial scuffles where your goal was to steal as many horses from the rivaling tribe as possible.

For a real answer. The market that likes this stuff is small. You have neckbeards that like it as a lore source, and the SJW people that like it for political reasons. Normies dont like long named shit that they actually have to think about.

Because bioware were the only ones who could actually show alien culture for you, see jade empire or hordes of under dark for example.
Modern gamers prefer garbage developers like obsidian who somehow turned alien and weird spirit land with population who are very paranoid about red wizards, into generic western fantasy with spirits and Cred Forums loved motb

>It is one of the finest things in the world to see them in war in their squadrons, because they move with perfect order, and are splendidly attired, and make such a fine appearance that nothing could be better.

>ywn never see these guys fight in their feather suits
end me lads

>all this neat stuff was deleted so they could make a city that's constantly sinking into the ground

because fantasy = tolkien ripoff since ever

I agree normies don't give a shit, but they could: Look at how much european/american public likes japanese shit, or egypttian stuff despie it not being their heitage. You need to just get them interested and then iit can become popular: They weren't always interested in those things, but starred to after an egyptiain culture boooon in 18th centuary europe, and then obviously back in the 90's with the advent of japanese games and anime.

It's just a matter of getting lucky and being the one to set off people's interests.

His last words were reportedly
>gg ez

Because normal people don't know much about them and developers would need to spend way too much money to get at least at the historical accuracy of Arsecreeds.

Also a lot of people are retards like like the first poster.

The average American ladies and gentlemen!

This is my land is about Native Americans.
Though it's set in like the 1800s, not back when Natives actually had cities and shit like back in the 1300s.

I have and it was great
Read a book, dumb burger

>Nobody wants to play as some furry spic.
Fantasy world made of Aztec lore would be pretty cool though. Incredibly fucked up and brutal where characters regularly get decapitated or skinned alive and your magical trinkets include wearing someone's decorated skull or skin into battle. Get bonus buffs from your god of rain by torturing children and collecting their tears, while you can please the goddess of harvest by having an erotic dance where you decapitate the sexy dancers after the dance is over.

History of Tlaxcala by Munoz Camargo, here's the chapter of Tlahuicole, albeit infortunately only in Spanish. The last paragraph narrates his death.

historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/libros/lecturas/T1/LHMT1_033.pdf

Reminder they burned all of their books and library too. We lost thousands of years of history, peotry, philosophy, art, random cultural beliefs, etc. Thankfully, a lot of information about Aztec society and their history was preserved after Catholic friars realized knowing it would make converting people easier, but we still lost a ton of stuff and what was re-recorded only covers the geographic area the core of tthe azttec empire was in and for the prior few hundred years, and not in nearly as much detail if the books were never burned.

My favorite example of what we lost out on is ttheir featherrworking. They were insanely skilled at making shit out of feathers, to the point where during the colional period, surving featherworkers made cathoolic religious paintings out of feathers instead of paint, pic related, and they used similar techniques to make art, clothing, and the like in native times.

The "fursuits" they wore to battle you saw in , etc would have been made in a similar way.

Are there any games at all set in Sumeria? I know you can play as them in a couple of Civ games, but that's all I can think of.

you know you got genocided so hard you went from revengeance motherfuckers to big guys like bane

This is basically why I tend to avoid "fantasy" fiction altogether. It's always the same Europe-based LoTR derivative garbage. I want to see some original ideas, not castles, swords, forests and generic magic shit. Is it really that hard?

well they deserved it
most of the time they only had a number advantage if at all, and they still went full flower war against them insted of just kill them

>Sandoval was appointed to the command of the third division, consisting of twenty-four horse, fourteen crossbow-men and musketeers, and one hundred and fifty foot armed with shields and swords. To this division were added 8000 Indians from the townships of Chalco, Huexotzinco, and other places in alliance with us.
(...)
>They had driven one of our brigantines between the stakes, killed two of the men, and wounded all the rest. (...) the Mexicans had already fastened many ropes to her, and were trying to tow her off into the town behind their canoes. Sandoval's encouraging words were not lost upon us, and we fought with such determination that at length we rescued the vessel. (...) when all in a moment the large drum of Huitzilopochtli again resounded from the summit of the temple, accompanied by all the hellish music of shell trumpets, horns, and other instruments. The sound was truly dismal and terrifying, but still more agonizing was all this to us when we looked up and beheld how the Mexicans were mercilessly sacrificing to their idols our unfortunate companions (...) On that terrible day the loss of the three divisions amounted to sixty men and seven horses.

Bernal DĂ­az del Castillo. True history of the Conquest of New Spain, Chapters CL, CLII

Because the minute you start making a game in some nigger setting - nigger will scream "muh cultural apropriation".

>most of the time they only had a number advantage if at all
pic related, not to mention the cavalry, artillery and brigantines

Practically every fantasy game borrows the aesthetics and cultures of other societies. If you're talking about historical games, you're going to get some ahistoric mythical bullshit because of biases and lack of translated high quality stories. Game devs can't even get their own history right.

see
here's another one. This one was made either by or for Montezuma II's nephew to present to the pope. Higher res version here: getty.edu/art/exhibitions/golden_kingdoms/images/explore/gm_357140EX1_x1024.jpg

God damn it Ii need to learn spanish, so many sources for mesooamerican stuff isn't translated in english.

Spics don't care about cultural appropriation, though.

well if you interpret enough you find a bunch of references to sumerian myths but that's about as much as i know of.

I refuse to believe all of that is feathers

you underestimate their featherwork
in pic related all the colors were made with feathers

Oh yeah because we really need games where you run around with a bunch of redskins getting high on cactus trimmings and chasing around water buffalo and shit or how about African build a mud hut and be thirsty simulator

It's more obvious if you look at the higher res version, you can see the iridescence on the blues and the "fuzz" on the skin tones. More info here:

khanacademy.org/humanities/art-americas/new-spain/viceroyalty-new-spain/a/featherworks-the-mass-of-st-gregory
hyperallergic.com/273305/plumage-of-the-saints-aztec-feather-art-in-the-age-of-colonialism/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_feather_work

Pic related is even crazier, though it was made

They could make a God of War-esque game from Epic of Gilgamesh pretty easily.

why the shit did people even live in those barren shitholes?

>ywn have an Aztec shipbuilding simulator

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms (16.8-18m) in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Fifth Letter of Relation by Cortes to Charles V about his expedition to present-day Honduras, 1500km away from the Aztec supply lines

With 1086 posts, U Bein, the longest wooden bridge in the world is 1.2 km long. It took 2 years to build, and they got the wood by disassembling an old palace located nearby.

The Aztecs and Mesoamericans had only really primitive boating tech, though. They were barely bronze age tier in that respect, if even that. They hadn't even developed the sail.

It might have been more fertile and lush back in the day, desertification is a bitch

>mr.dev you must choose where to pull your lore from
>europe with thousand years of preserved historical culture and writings
>or dead civilization, who are only fleshed out by speculation of historians

It used to be a spot of green next to a desert and mountains. Cities formed next to great rivers which were much more unpredictable than Nile, there was periods of drought and periods of floods, which reflected on their myths and religion as their gods being fickle as fuck.

considering they could build +1km bridges in 4 days i can't really blame them

but could you imagine what they could have done with the knowledge of the old world

>that battle of Fukuda bay
WEEBS BTFO

>europe with thousand years of preserved historical culture and writings

With that logic we would have more fantasy settings based on China than Europe. You see european fantasy lands a lot because Tolkien popularized the fantasy genre to mainstream.

>No Arab fantasy RPG where you ride a flying donkey, romance a 9 year old child and watch the sun set in a muddy puddle

Those drawings are commie propaganda. It was a lot shittier

I wish there were more Conan games.

Is there a non-European equivalent to something like Warhammer (fantasy or 40k)?

Because it's part of the genre. It's like asking what's with Lovecraftian things and fish people.
Sure you don't have to do it, and not everybody does it, but it's the staple of the genre even if it's not it's core.
It's the low hanging fruit, the salt and bread, the shit that comes with the box you can spin it in many different ways, but fantasy started and stayed for a large part a reinventing of european folklore and mythology.
if the story you have in mind doesn't explicitly need to happen in a different fantasy setting - you go with the european one.

>According to the Guinness Book of Records, Cholula is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at over 4.45 million cubic metres, even larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, which is about 2.5 million cubic metres.

>"Moctezuma possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent ; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."

>"On their route they passed through three provinces, that, according to the report of the Spaniards, contained very fine land, many villages and cities, with much scattered population, and buildings equal to any in Spain. They mentioned particularly a house and castle, the latter larger, of greater strength, and better built than the castle of Burgos (the castle of the kings of Spain); and the people of one of these provinces, called Tamazulapa, were better clothed than those of any other we had seen, as it justly appeared to them."
Cortes to Charles V

Theres plenty of it but not enough translated for it to have had an impact. The closest we've got is Journey to the West.
China does a fine job creating it on their own though.

I agree. Im a sucker for ancient cultures like egypt.

So you basically want a KC:D in Rome back when Cleopatra and Cesar were a Thing?
Go Play Ass Creek then.

I love how these threads always just boil down to baiting the mesoamerican autist into dropping walls of text

Give me an RPG in ancient greece with mythical beasts, wars, tributes to gods and cool places to explore

Me too.
Fun to learn something interesting as opposed to most of the shithreads surrounding deliverance

How about you shut up

Name me 3 fantasy games that happen to use anything related to the Byzantine Empire as a basis

Found the nigger-cock loving race traitor.

>Isn't everyone bored to death of 800-1600 Europe already?
No.

Retards like you need to stop looking at things in history from a modern lens. Back when Sumeria was around, that place probably wasn't a desert shit hole.

>the aztec autist is back
THE SPANISH EMPIRE DID NOTHING WRONG.

>Byzantine
So, basically just Rome?

OP has been at it since like 3 years ago seriously, I think he's the only one on Cred Forums obsessed with muh Aztecs

>This is your average american
This but unironically. However, nobody wants to lose that market.

Yeah, but people only associate Rome with the republic until the beginning of the empire. Funnily enough even in the empire's lifespawn it looked a hell lot more different than its republican days

Mutts, not even once

Aztecanon is one of the rare things that make me enjoy lurking on Cred Forums

>or dead civilization, who are only fleshed out by speculation of historians

We have pretty detailed records abut central mesoamerica during the postclassic period; which would be the Aztecs and their neighbors; as much information as we do about most places iin ancient europe and asia. There's more then enough for games there.

I'm well aware most of the stuff I respond to is bait and shitposting, but I like to inform people about shit and it provides me a good excuse to do so.

Case in point:

The Spanish crown wasn't even supportive of Cortes's efforts, he was disobeying orders by going onto the mainland, the governor of cuba sent out a warrant for his arrest for doing so. In fact, a second force of spainards ended up arriving to arrest him while the Spanish were guests/occupying (it started out as Montezuma II begrudgingly inviting them into the city and ended up them holding him hostage and chilling out in the palace) the captial. Cortes ran off to go fight them, and while he was gone the guy he left in charge ended up massacring a bunch of people at the great temple and the populace rose up and drove them out of the city.

After the Aztecs were toppled, Cortes had to write a series of letters to Charles V justifying his actions to avoid being executed, and when Cortes tried to claim a bunch of land in the area for himself the crown told him to fuck off and to make it public land since it was needed for public water sources for the Mexico City in the aftermath.

The Crown was complacent/looked the other way on the exploitative shit in the later colional period, but most of the blame for the awful shit during the conquest and the early colional period was the fault of greedy and sadistic conquistadors acting mostly on their own.; at least that's my understanding. I care more about the native cultures soo the spanish side of things/the colional period is stuff I only learn about tangentiially.

>Lost against rag-tagged britbong pirates while outnumbering them


And they never recovered

Do you try to appear this stupid or does it comes naturally to you?

Because both Fantasy (Tolkein) and History (Herodotus) are products of White people. Invent your own genres.

...

>what is the Epic of Gilgamesh

Because its relatable and know they aren't board to death. Sameway they arent board of ww2 shooters in 1944

i thought people liked morrowind

White people borrowed writing from the Mesopotamians, though. Asians and Mesoamericans invented it indepedently.

>no bronze age game with delicate weapons forcing you to use shield parrys and avoid contact with the opponents blade.

>no copper age otzi the iceman style crafting game high in the Alps

I guess medieval Europe is actually quite close to are time and since the Americas were discovered during the Renaissance they represent that missing link to the old world that the American markets lack.I mean they have those Renaissance fares dont they?

Tolkein did not invent fantasy you fucking idiot.

>tfw no aztec asscreed

Hispanic means spanish in latin.

If we could get a good Conan game, you could have all the cultures flinging shit at one another with you help out whoever pays you the most.

>WTF HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW HORSES WERE THE EASIEST ANIMAL TO RIDE, STUPID GAME NOT TELLING ME ANYTHING

Because if they had to depict their beangroids being disgusting child sacrificing monsters they were a whole bunch of bean niggers would chimp out.

>While the extinctions around the late Pleistocene saw the end to mammoths, giant sloths, horses and the like in the Americas, the extinction rate of North American mammals actually reached its highest level some six million years ago, resulting in the demise of about 60 genera. Several species of horses were driven to extinction at that time. Not so long ago, there was no evidence of an overlap between North American horse extinction and the arrival of humans, let alone evidence of their hunting horses. There is now clear evidence that mankind hunted North American horses but were they doing so in numbers that made a difference? It is a question that may never be answered. Evidence also suggests horses were originally domesticated, not just for riding, but also to provide food, including milk. “It’s hard to see this as one of those things where a single piece of evidence will make it obvious what happened,” Scott Wing, a paleobiologist at the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of Natural History, told National Geographic. “The phenomenon that people are trying to explain is not something that happened in one place at one time. It happened across the globe, at different times on different continents. I think that there are clearly multiple factors involved.”

ICO, SotC and Last Guardian the characters dress in pseudo Aztec patterns and styles

>Because if they had to depict their beangroids being disgusting child sacrificing monsters they were a whole bunch of bean niggers would chimp out.

>what was inquisition and holy wars

but their all mixed and speak Spanish why the hell do they identify with the Aztecs and Mayans?

>that guy on the right reloading the RPG
that's gonna show those barefoot viking shits

>Isn't everyone bored to death of 800-1600 Europe already?
No. It's 10/10.

This.

It's fine for a single map or two, like a dungeon or an island nation I do quests on for a few days. But if I had to do it even more, I'd be annoyed.

You're a very boring person

I wouldn't mind a game where I go to Aztec land and conquer it.

But I don't wanna be some furry warrior who thinks chopping off heads does magical god shit.

Wrong, they bred with the lesser humans instead of exterminating them all and bringing their own women into the new world so that now 500 years later we have to read the autistic posts of mestizos who think they're descendants of proud Aztec jaguar warriors and not the spawn of some Spanish sailor who bought his gf from the local village chief the Aztecs used to take human sacricifes for the sun god from like Aztecautist going "WE WUZ KANGS OF FLOATING CITIES AND SHIYET. WE WUZ THE WAKANDA OF ERYTHANG BUT WHEELS AND METAL AND THEM EUROPEANS WUZ JUST JEALOUS AND THEY WOULD HAVE NEVER WON IF IT WEREN'T FOR THEM CRAFTY WYPIPO DISEASES" over and over again

I'm sorry for your shit taste.

>Fantasy setting where the Gods are one hundred percent real and one hundred percent serious about all the blood they need to stay appeased.

Many times yes

history can be surprising

>look at muh 2 durability ̶s̶w̶o̶r̶d̶ stick with rocks in it
>Cool, now look at my 100 durability armor peasant

I always enjoy these threads.
Historianon posts some really interesting stuff.

>min-maxing
Yawn, enjoy being a boring conquistador

Its still unclear if Linear A was developed independently or not

that looks so fucking gay. Honestly.
>you will never travel to some furries country, kill them and rape their women all the while looking /fa/ as fuck

Except you didn't. Spain regularly got it's asses handed to them and only after the native population had been fucked over my smallpox and drought and famine did Spain stop losing their shit. There's a reason Britain and France only kept small bits of South America, as it just wasn't worth it.

You will never starve to death alone in a foreign land after all your companions died in combat

niggas who don't know shit shouldn't talk shit.

Hear hear. They should've genocided them. I bet Christianity had a role in softening the men's brains.
>muh salvation, join our religion savages!

>There's a reason Britain and France only kept small bits of South America, as it just wasn't worth it.

no the Spanish and Portuguese had got their first it wasn't worth fighting them.

>Spain regularly got it's asses handed to them
They won user. Most of their fighting force was allied native troops that hated the Aztecs anyway.

LOL, the savages thought the Spanish were literal gods. The quetzalcoatl! Hell, they were gods compared to these jungle apes.

The thing is, these cities existed. But the mongols which inhabit the areas today didn't build them, and they acknowledge it.

>nu-Cred Forums actually wants less interesting settings and locales for games and wants the same shit shoveled into them repeatedly

You guys have absolutely no imagination.

>Why are so many "Fantasy" and Historical games set essentially medieval Europe instead of using the aesthetics and cultures of other societies on earth?
Baby duck syndrome.

>Because other cultures don't make their own games bar Japan.
There is lots of western history outside of the middle ages too, but we hardly ever see anything like Roman Fantasy or Colonial Gothic themed games.

>You guys have absolutely no imagination.
For all the demands for originality, their idea of innovation is "more of the same, but just a teensy bit different this time".

Because there is much more historical texts and records of European historical events than there are of Africa and Pre-colonialization America's. Asia's history outside of China and Japan is kinda boring.

>Asia's history outside of China and Japan is kinda boring
Khmer? India?

Fuck yeah I would. Going somewhere weird and new was what appealed to me about fantasy in the first place, but now it just feels like a collection of tired tropes. A strange different setting could stand to liven it up.

>>what was inquisition and holy wars
Justified.
Also nowhere near as bad as popular culture depicts them, e.g. the Inquisition was focused on theological recanting, secular authorities were the ones who ordered stake burnings and the holy wars were in response to hundred of years of muslim invasion and aggression. (holy wars against Cathars were spurred on by them setting up alternate power structures opposed to their secular authorities and murdering priests)

that's because that's what the first stories of its type did and people are lazy.
it takes a lot of research to make a world come alive.

so yeah, genre conventions.

jesus christ there is so much stupidity floating around in this thread.
daily reminder to never EVER take anons word at face value. especially if it's retards from Cred Forums or Cred Forums.

you're all literal subhumans wallowing in their own filth, miseducating each other.

>miseducating each other.
help if you addressed whom, and i dont know contribute to the thread of historical game ideas

I give you India.

AC: Origins can be pirated now in case you missed it

>unpainted statues

They look better unpainted anyway.

Because Europeans/Americans can afford fantasy and historical European games, while third worlders cant. It's not a good business

no they really dont
the reproductions can only get the base colours but they had knowledge of tone and shading.

They would be incredibly life like and very unnerving in a temple with the god or goddess staring you down in flickering candle light

They probably painted it better than that shit lmao

Because depicting any other culture in a negative light means you're a filthy ebil goose stepping racist. Problem is negativity, conflict and general ugliness is necesary when creating an interesting story.

its the base colour.The tone and shading added on top has been lost

>jungle manlet niggers
your game sucks dude

Patrician taste. That was easily my favorite expansion.

I think it depends on how similar the culture is though.
Japan and Ancient Rome had fairly similar hierarchies and social norms to Europe/America.

African or Egyptian society was pretty different. Hell some African cultures revolved around dancing and shit as ways of social interactions.
Sometimes things are just a little too removed from the norm.

Dude we got a fucking series depicting (fantasy) ancient china. It's on its ninth (9) installment now not counting spin-off. Ancient china is one of the most popular setting.
>three kingdoms
>suikoden
>journey to the west
I don't even particularly like the setting.

You would because you are a nigger loving son of a bitch.

How come nobody does fantasy America or anything? Like go nuts on cryptids, wild west, and the tall tales of the time and mix it all together?

Like Red Dead Redemption?

I love you.

I always thought a darkest africa/heart of darkness horror game would be cool

>tfw larping is so out of control that you can't talk about things that involve non-whites without the thread turning into bullshit.

i cant wait until this fad is over.

>amerilards.

Because we know virtually fucking nothing about society in Tenochitlan.

>White researchers so far ahead they go to third world shitholes and dig for excuses as to why other places didn't do as well as them

I love feminine nigger love faggots on Cred Forums so much

>go to third world shitholes and dig for excuses as to why other places didn't do as well as them

its a pretty reasonable question.Europe was largely a backwater during the beginning of civilization right through the bronze age.

After the fall of the western roman empire it fell back into it till the Renaissance.

Because they are made by people who live in those countries.

If other groups want games reflecting their cultures, they can make those games themselves if they want.

Im on my phone so this will be less detailed then i'd like.

Almost all sacrifices would have been prisoners of war: to the Aztecs, the capture of enemies was seen as more admirable then killing them, and it was via capturing of enemy soldiers that you advanced through the military. In both mesoamerican and european warfare, few people died in the middle of combat: it was when one side lost morale and their formations broke that shit hit the fan.

In europe, this was when the slaughter happened, with the fleeing side being picked off by the other. In Mesoamerica, same deal, but the Aztecs and other nahua cultures would attempt to incapacitate abd capture rather then kill. Literally the only difference is the people being killed right then in battle vs later. It was also seen as honorable, garunteed the highest honors in the afterlife, and the people being killed were generally complacant in following along with the ceremoney and refused to be spared in the few times they were given the chance (which was very rare)

There WERE certain ceremonies where actual domestic civillians would be sacrificed, but it would be one or two people and wouldnt be a regular occurrence: about as common as sacrifice in ancient cultures as europe.

Mesoamerica wasn't really any less of an empirical soceity then europe at the time. The apex of the Maya and Teotihuacan was from 200ad to 900ad. The postclassic period where the Toltecs, Mixtec, and later the Aztecs and Purepecha were at theirs was from 900ad to 1519. Europe was still very much a superstitious, medevial socetiy.

The Aztecs actually likely had a slighty more empircal approach to medicine. Go look up the paper "Public Health in Aztec Society". Its free to access and is easily digestable, and goes into their sanitation systems as well as their medicinal and scientific understanding.

Mostly developed in Western nations with Western history.
Likewise Japan focuses on Japanaese history.

I think ancient mesopotamian fantasy would be cool

I'm not a mutt fuck you.

>Make game from your own culture
>People complain about you not making a game from another culture
>Make game from other culture
>People complain about cultural appropriation and you how since you're [x] race that you can't ever understand how it is

Only a few of the Greek statues were painted, notably that one archer one.
The "all the white statues were supposed to be pigmented" is a shitty pop-history meme that's taken off in the last two years or so.

Are you the same dude posting in every thread about Aztecs and shit?

people like what's familiar
people who buy western games are typically westerners
sure you have some people fascinated with other cultures, but if you want to make a game that'll sell to a lot of people you set it with elves and dwarves in a european fantasy world

>Europe was largely a backwater
A backwater responsible for 90% of scientific advancement even back then.
>After the fall of the western roman empire it fell back into it till the Renaissance.
Dark Ages meme. Never true and a shitton of technological advancement happened during the supposed loss of Western Rome.

>A backwater responsible for 90% of scientific advancement even back then.
American education, everyone. Have you ever heard about the fertil crescent?

>Dark Ages meme. Never true and a shitton of technological advancement happened during the supposed loss of Western Rome.
That's true, the dark ages thingy is anti-catholic propaganda from the XV century.

What's the point of that image? At first I thought it was Iberia vs third worlders but there are also random battles between European nations thrown in there as well?

Don't like it then build a game in a particular setting you want to see! Oh right, that that takes work, its easier to just bitch about stuff instead of taking meaningful action.

Never change Cred Forums.

>Have you ever heard about the fertil crescent?
Yes, I know it achieved comparatively little when placed next to Hellenism.
Seriously, the Greeks laid the groundwork for almost everything* that didn't come from the Chinese.

*Astronomy not necessarily included.

>if you complain about your car just build a new one!

No, they didn't. Montezuma thinking cortes was queztalcoatl a myth that was invented in the colional era. We outright know for a fact Montezuma knew they were human.


I'll clarify once i get home along with responding to some other bullshit people have posted

yeah thank you for taking my side! Thousands of people rebuild cars for a hobby and make it exactly to their specifications.W-wait... y-you do understand how to build a car r-right?

>Why are so many "Fantasy" and Historical games set essentially medieval Europe instead of using the aesthetics and cultures of other societies on earth?
we'd try but then we'd get called out trying to appropriate someone elses culture which devolves into a circle jerk real fast

>people who are addicted to complaining like to complain

woah

>Dark Ages meme
no it really wasn't
A huge amount of common knowledge was lost and literacy rates plummeted.

Do you realise that was talking about the bronze age, right? The hellenic kingdoms weren't a thing yet. Learn your history, goddamnit.

especially considering byzantium never felt the dark ages, and had advancements like the greek fire.
Bronze age greece was one of the greatest civilizations at that time.

Based Aztec user making me hate Spaniards for what they did to my beloved Mexico

>Seriously, the Greeks laid the groundwork for almost everything

Realistically, Greeks stole almosst everything from the big shots who preceded them.
The difference being that Greek was a major liturgical language so it's their ancient sources we get it from.
The problem being that the ones they stole from used languages and scripts that we either only rediscovered recently or can't read to this day.

Imagine if Eastern church wasn't a thing. We'd not have a fucking clue about the Greek gods and it all would be Jupiters and Venuses instead of Zeuses and Aphrodites.

>what is the minoan civilization
>what is the mycenaean civilization

no, dark ages are literally a meme

Because mostly europeans make games.

The bronze age greek city-states were relatively unimportant when compared to Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Hindus valley or the Yellow river valley civilization, and their legacy disapeared with the bronze age collapse, with the sole exception of Athens. And even if you don't think so, it's foolish to equate the small greek palace economies with the entirety of Europa. I think that you are confusing the importance of the aquileans with the posterior city states of the iron age (specially during the life of Pericles) and the Hellenic kingdoms of Alexander, which actually had a major importance in the history of Europe.

>implying playing in a shithole country wouldn't make the game more fun because less contrived bullshit and more violence and savagery
I'd kill for a game that takes place in medieval africa, where wild savages fight against arabs and berbers for the right to the sahara, and the whole point of the game is to kill as many muslims/pagan voodoo niggers as possible, depending on which side you take

You know one of those has absolutely fuck all to do with Greeks, right?

Minoans are not Greeks in the slightest. We don't know who they were, we just know that they weren't Greeks, Egyptians or Phoenicians and they are the "ancient ones" who uplifted the primitive Greeks with the wonders of civilisation.

t.-10 disease resist

Lmao sure

you bet your ass I would

>sending someone to their grave doesn't do magical god shit

nigga that's how magical god shit got invented in the first place.

So were Europeans. The wheelbarrow was invented in China and only came to Europe in the middle ages.

Lamao if you're mexican you're like 60% spanish

just saying it over and over doesn't make it true user

uhm that's cultural appropriation sweety

They absolutely do look better unpainted, are you blind?
He's right though. Dark Ages has this horrible association attached to it, but it wasn't as bad as everyone likes to think.

All the best history happened in Europe

800 - 1600 was peak melee combat which is why it is drawn on as an influence for RPGs, although giving us a Roman era game or an Ancient Greece game would be combat kino albeit limited. I just want someone to make a game set in India before they started shitting in the streets. It was the richest country in the world at one point.

It's more or less destroyed so there isn't much to think about

Prince of Persia and Beyond Oasis, though.

>before they started shitting in the streets
you mean they de-invented toilets?

>wasn't as bad as everyone likes to think.
thats true but to deny their wasn't a decline technologically and economically after the western roman empire's collapse would be stretching it too far

I mean take this migration era sword beautiful work and skillfully made but they are extremely rare compared to roman swords and were used exclusively by nobles and kings a far cry when a sword was standard gear for roman troops.

t.spanish rape baby

I'm not bored to death of medieval europe because I love it, but I do agree that some more variety would be nice
I'd gladly play as the scythians and sack some gr**k villages

>Roman era game or an Ancient Greece game would be combat kino albeit limited
what would be limiting?

Non western culture outside of China is straight up garbage. This is coming from a third world history prof. Majority of recorded human history is just people doing nothing much with what they have and going nowhere. At least the west went to places.

>we wuz ventians n shit

aztec culture had
-no written laguage
-no use of metals
-never invented the wheel
-were starving everyday
-were literally conquered in a day

Everything you see in mexico with their pyramids are literally faked by the government for propaganda. They're all 100% rebuilt

0/10

this is the pyramid of the sun before they "rebuilt" it

before

after

I know this more then most posts I respond to iis a shitpost, but

1. I'm not a spic

2. There were no "village chiefs", at least not generally, because almost the entire region, especially when talking about the Aztec's region of influence and their enemies, was composed of actual political states based in urban cities. The only parts of Mesoamerica tthat had actual non-urban cultures that didn't have complex goverments and society were up north (not what you'd think of as north mexico: Mesoamerica only starts like 1/3 of the way into mexico, that top 1/3 of mexico that borders on the US is Aridoamerica and was mostly just wasteland deserts) bordering on airodoamerica, which where the Chichimec tribes (and fun fact, Chichimec has the same connottations to the Aztecs as Barbarian did to the romans: It was a perojative used to talk about uncivilized people. Which is ironic, since the Aztecs and other Nahua cultures in central mesoamerica were of chichimec descent); and in the Yucatan, occpuying the pockets of territory between the remaiining Maya city states and kingdoms.

3. They had wheels and metals, see and pic related. Obviously, gold was smithed and worked for jewelrly, relgious idols, and the like, and copper and alloys were smelted for that as well as domestic tools. Bronze was developed in western mesoamerica a hundred or so years before the spanish showed up, but niether it or copper was used in weapons, at least not commonly. I'll freely concede though that Mesoamerica, even accounting for civilization first arising later due to humans arriving in the americas later, was behind with metals. But, again, they were ahead in other ways, see

They had bronze axes as weapons.similar to early bronze age European ones in fact the conquistadors commissioned the local towns and villages to build them for their army.

>They had wheels and metals

They literally didn't. Their "swords" which were really bats were made of wood and obsidian and those toys were the only example of any kind of "wheel"

They had to use tameme to ship everything they had

Any example of metal work is probably post-Columbian when they started trading with the spanish

I would rather play prehistoric setting with secluded villages and incest.

>restoration
do you know how much of this image is original?

Actually, most conquistadors didn't have steel armor: they were poor, and it's not like they were just given armor by the spanish crown. A few did, and you can see it in some of the native books made during the conquest period, but most did not; and those that did generally switched it over in favor of native armor that was better for the climate and lighter while still being effective.

Speaking of native armor, there was a undersuit (Ichcahuipilli), either a vest, or tunic (the ttan/biege vests in pic related), that was the main part of the armor that was made of various fibers of different thicknesses and materials woven into layers sort of like kevlar, which was soaked in brine or other mineral rich water, so when it dried, there would be crystalization inside the armor. On top of that, higher ranked soldiers would also then have a second layer (Tlahuiztli) made of feathers, cotton, and leather or rarely were just animal skins of the animal it was meant to look like, and these were the decorative onsie suits that look like fursuits. Typically they'd be designed after an animal or specific mythological creature, and the specifiic color and design was a rank indication. You also had helmets and shields made out of wood, leather, animal skins, and feather as well. There was also Ēhuatl whiich was sort of like a tunic version oof Tlahuiztli, and was more decorative/symbolic in nature then it, and was worn by important people. Think of this as those super fancy engraved suits of plate kings had in europe.

Also, Obisidan is brittle, but it wouldn't shatter against a single hiit on something hard. There's a video on youtube of some etsy artist and her boyfriend using one of her shitty, completely inaccurate macuahuitls to slice a chicken in half, and it goes through and cracks the table it's sitting on and all the blades are fine and undamaged.

Play expeditions conquistador, it's exactly what you want.

>trade with Spanish for metal
>get expensive bronze instead of steel

your a funny one user.

>but to deny their wasn't a decline technologically and economically after the western roman empire's collapse
No one denied this, though. What people deny is that the "Dark Ages" meant that the entirety of Europe got set back thousands of years to the point where people started living in caves again.

>Ywn wear a potted plant as a battle helmet
Why live?

Do you EVER go away, turkshit?

this guy is literally the Mexican equivalent of "folded 1000 times"

>Non western culture outside of China is straight up garbage.
Persia? Arabia? Egypt? Mongolia? Europe is the best but I think saying that they're the only ones (including China) that aren't boring shit.

funny the anglo saxons preferred living in old roman villa ruins to their long houses

you can be in denial if you want

no the Japanese at least had steel

>but I think saying that they're the only ones (including China) that aren't boring shit*.
* is stretching it a bit too far.

>or egypttian stuff despie it not being their heitage
stop right there withe boi

scythians weren't turkic

They had certain white brass with some mixture of gold which they made cast hatchets and big rattles which they used to dance. This brass and other plates or more strong metal sheets were recovered from Tabasco
—Diego de Landa, Relación de las cosas de Yucatán

>Except you didn't. Spain regularly got it's asses handed to them and only after the native population had been fucked over my smallpox and drought and famine did Spain stop losing their shit.

This is sort of true but misleading. Yes, the Spanish regularly lost to native troops in battles, but they also won plenty of them, including before the intial smallpox outbrreak. Granted, most of their wins were against smaller states, but they still did have wins when fighting alone; and I think it's also obvious that if the Spanish had as many troops as the native states did with fully supply lines, then they'd have won pretty hard and not needed the help of the states they ended up allying with: Horses and firearms were a big boon that only didn't matter much because of the giant difference in numbers and logistics, and even then it allowed the spanish to act as shock troops, disrupting enemy lines and allowing their native allies to go in and exploit the chaos and openings.

I always offer to post sources for the things I say in these threads butt nobody ever asks me for them. If there's something I said in here you think is wrong tell me what it is and I can get some.

Jungles were mostly limited to the gulf coast area and the Yucatan, which only the edges of Aztec controlled territory was in contact with. The core of Aztec terriotry was in a temperate, but somewhat arid lake basin, and most of the surronding area and aztec territory in general was these semi temperate semi arid valleys and plains.

I think you are underestimating the otherness of precolumbian socieites: There were obviously differences, but I don't think any more alien then Japanese vs European would have been. There were city, social classes, taxes, goverment offices, courts, legal systems, scribes, poets, schools, formalized armies, political marriages, coups, etc.

Alright, so: As I said, this was a myth invented in the colional period. That being said, some of the natives MIGHT have thought the spanish were gods, but it's a big maybe: Basically, there's a single (as in, litterally only one) first hand conquistador account that says the after Cortes told the Totonacs to imprison an Aztec debt collector, the Tontacs told him that would be a declaration of war, and Cortes went "so what do it nerds", and the Tontacs were sort of taken aback in awe, whispered among themselves that he would dare to propose such a thing, and the conquistador making the account says that this must be the work of "teules", and the spanish interpert thi to mean the Tontacs were calling them gods, so the Spanish start to call themselves it too.

The problem is that teule isn't even a word, it was likely a mangled, mistranslated version of the nahuatl (the language of the nahua cultures, including the Aztecs) word "teotl". So right off the bat, we know the spanish had some translation hiccups. The second thing is that "teotl" doesn't really have a direct english translation and it's a really nuanced word, more of a concept: It COULD mean god, but "gods" as the Aztecs and mesoamericans had them weren't even gods as we thiink of the word. It could also just mean "divine" or "otherworldy": Gnomes, fairies, etc would have been "teotl" to the Aztecs too. It could also just mean "awe insioriing" or "omnious". So, given the context, it's entirely possible and likely the Totonacs were just remaking that Cortes's audiacity was breathaking, or it was "godlike"; or hell, that his actions might just be the work of some other divine entitiy.

1/2

Because there is no Aztecs around to make games about their culture, they all dead nigga

Fantasy as a genre has one really big weakness, and I say this as a fantasy autist. It's that the audience needs to understand the world for it to work. A good writer can minimalize the time spent explaining and dump exposition but it's still a challenge. No matter how creative a setting is, its creator has to have the audience understand it or it doesn't function. The more creative and original a setting, the more difficult "showing, not telling" becomes. Medieval fantasy makes it easy for people to grasp the "rules". Immediately recognizable aesthetics become powerful in that context, and lots of people put what separates their setting from others a little under the surface of "elves and dwarves and dragons".

I also think fantasy games are also firmly rooted in role-playing, and the whole fucking point is to make a character and your own personality and then take them into that game. The wilder and more specific the setting the harder that becomes without doing lore-homework. Morrowind wasn't generic at all but the player character came to the setting as a stranger, and the player could engage and learn with a stranger's initial point of view. An rpg has to be careful from alienating its players from making a character. It's not fun to make a character that you find just doesn't make any sense in the setting.

It is a meme, hyped up by Marxists to make Europe look bad, there is a reason they don't teach about Byzantine in USA, doesn't fit the agenda

I know im late but like other dude said, creating an entire world with its own societal norms, logic and cultural heritage requires a metric fuckton of dedication, research, and actual creative ingenuity.

Why do that when history and colleague authors did the dirty footwork for you?

Its simply not worth it in a majority of cases as the world is usually a backdrop to tell a story rather than its focus.

Cont:

I mentioned that Montezuma in particular at least knew cortes was human: In the same account, when Cortes arrives at tenochtutlan after hearing the spanish keep calling themslves teule, Montezuma says to cortes:

> I know very well that these people of Tlaxcala with whom you are such good friends have told you that I am a sort of God or teotl ... I know well enough that you are wise and did not believe it but took it as a joke. Behold now, Señor, my body is of flesh and bone like yours ... that I am a great king and inherit the riches of my ancestors is true, but not all the nonsense and lies that they have told you about me, although of course you treated it as a joke, as I did your thunder and lightning.

So Montezuma II definitely did not think cortes was Quetzalcoatl. I can go into detail on how that myth and why people think he thought he was started, but I think what I already posted debunks it enough and I wanna wrap up because I have other shit to do

Are you seriously retarded you can't see how humans not even arriving in the americas and settling into the region for tens of thousnads of years after they had in mesopotamia would result in stuff being delayed?

Yeah. I'm actually not happy I have a reputation, it makes me feel like i'm tripfagging. I don'tt go out of my way to post about them; most of the time i'm on Cred Forums I just post about video games normally like anybody else, but if I see somebody say dumb bullshit I feel compelled to correct it, and then inevitably other people post dumb bullshit in response and i'm forced to just spend the whole thread correcting shit.

>make Europe look bad
so your in agreement then that the western roman empire was pretty shit at the end and collasped and we should learn more about the superior eastern empire of Anatolia, egypt and Greece

>Greece
Biggest fucking meme civilization ever.

I'd love a game set in ancient China. The first assassins cred was set in the middle east and it sold very well too.

How many students do you even teach in the third world country you're in, prof?

Exactly
FUCK all Spanish

Here come the butthurt spic rape turds.

Does Guacamelee count

They had a writing, albiet not a full true written language, and books (though, the books were made form a single long sheet of paper tthat was folded iinto seperate "pages", rather then seperae sheets). The Maya, by contrast, along with the epi-olmec and a few others in the region, did have a true, full written language. Examples of their uses of metals and wheels are already posted in the thread. They weren't starving at all and had pretty innovative agricultural techniques, hence why they were able to support Tenochtitlan, with it's 250k population.

The Aztecs were toppled in 3 years; from 1519 to 1521, not a day.

>Everything you see in mexico with their pyramids are literally faked by the government for propaganda. They're all 100% rebuilt

This is such a load of bullshit I don't even know where to start. It looked how itt did in your first image because it was covered in dirt. If you went to elementary school, you'd know soil covers things over time. This is why dinosaur bones are buried and why ancient buildings are buried. People litterally just find ruins all the time in mexico when doing construction; not to mention that Conquistador accounts mention cities and stone buildings in great detail, as doo colional era writings.

If you seriously belive that every complex structure in Mesoamerica was faked then I don't know what to say.

Wrong, they also used wheels for pottery productions and in siege towers, pic related. You can see it with spokes in the bottom right.

Actually, no, this is a misunderstanding: The bronze and copper axeheads were either used as currency, or used as domestic tools in farming, not in wars.

Because cultures outside of Europe and some Asian cultures haven't progressed past their "historical" settings.

Africa in 1500's and Africa now look identical.

That's not true. Some places have actually backpedalled over time.

because other cultures are shit and haven't contributed as much to humanity as a whole
why the fuck would I want a fantasy rpg in some designated shitting streets mud hut village in the middle of nowhere when I could play in an established civilization?

and they performed worse than these guys not Iberia, but Spain vs the world
the greentext included is to depict how the aztecs without horses, iron armor and cannons fought better than people with those advantages

That's incorrect. Copper, gold, and silver smelting was developed around 600 AD in the region, and cold working metals was used for many hundreds of years before that. You can see copper and gold orrnatatipom in surviving Aztec shields and clothing, and you know, there's all that gold the Spanish wanted. We actually know how they mined/panned for, worked, and smelted gold and copper thanks to traditional methods being documented in various books made by native scribes during the conquest peripod, such as the florintine codex, pic related

If you think i'm bullshitting, explain what part exactly you don't believe and i'll give you a source for it. Seriously, I don't mind that people are skeptical: With how much SJW historical revisionism goes around these days, being skeptical is entirely reasonable: In school, they teach you fuck all about Mesoamerica and the Andes, and basically just say people got sacrificed and the spanish conquered them. So seeing somebody say they actually had a lot of cool shit and were pretty complex might seem as BS as the WE WUZ'ers.

But if you are skeptical, then fucking ask me for a source on what you are skeptical of so I can give it to you and you can read it and draw your own conclusions. I already even gave one for the Sanitation, medicial and some of the hydroeneginnering shit that got mentioned, I'll post it again: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1805201/

>inb4 you ask me for a source but just say "for everything" without being specific.

>why the fuck would I want a fantasy rpg in some designated shitting streets mud hut village in the middle of nowhere when I could play in an established civilization?

You could read the thread and see that Mesoamerica and the Andes also had civiilzation. And you know, obviously, fucking Mesopotamia and the middle east, which were the first places to have civilization on the planet.

You should probably look into the history around how they conquered the aztecs. Spain literally got btfo hard. They won by convincing the aztecs enemies into joining forces.

Friendly reminder that France > Spain.

Persia and Ancient Egypt are interesting. (but only Ancient, the rest are either pure shit or basically Greek like the Ptolemys)
The only thing interesting about Arabia are the Persian elements.
Mongolia is shit-fucking-tier aside from some tribe customs we know of because of Temujin.

Because it's comfy.

That's literally all there is to it.

>They won by convincing the aztecs enemies into joining forces.

It's actually more like that the Aztec's enemies convinced the Conquistadors to topple the Aztecs: The Tlaxcala intially beat the Spanish, but spared them since they realized that they would make valuable allies against the Aztecs, who had been slowly whittling them down via flower wars and blockades for a while. Then, the Tlaxcala also might have comitted a false flag when they, the tontonacs, and the spanish all arrived in the city of Cholula: Cortes was told that the Cholulans planned to murder him and the SPanish as they slept in the city on Aztec orders, but there's some evidence that the Tlaxcallans manufactured this or if not making it up, othterwise nudged it along.

So the Spanish massacred the population, and caused Cortes to want to go to the Aztecs even more. "coincidentally", right before the Spanish arrived, a more Aztec sympathic political faction in Cholula had taken power over the Tlaxcala sympathic one, which would have given the Tlaxcala a motive on top of what I already mentioned, as well. And, as you alluded to, the vast majority of troops both during the fight against the Aztecs, and during the rest of the conquist of the region was actually native soldiers: The spanish ALWAYS relied on native armies either as allied or hired as mercenaries and the like to win, since they were at such a numerical disadvntage.

The Spanish ended up reaping all the rewards in the end, but it's less a "Spanish conquest", and more just a continuation of existing native geopolitical tensions where the Spanish were an additional party and diseases wiping everybody out (which was exacerbated by all the conflict) enabled them to be uncontested in the end

Why don't you find Mesoamerica interesting? (I'm assuming that you are knowledgeable enough to have known at least the gist of what i've already said in the thread)

Fuck your shitty opinion burguerland brainlet, I am a game set in the amazon forest.

>Why don't you find Mesoamerica interesting?
I'm not the quoted history prof higher up the thread that you're mistaking me for, but I personally have little interest in the geographically isolated south americans and the attempts at reconstructing their culture based on what little interactions they had with the outside world.

What would have happened if the Spaniards never conquered the Aztecs?

Someone else would have conquered them.

Are there even any real Aztec descendants left
What do they look like

There are actually VERY few medieval European games.

You're confusing "medieval" with "Lord of the Rings", which is pure fantasy that isn't based on any time period or place.

>and the attempts at reconstructing their culture based on what little interactions they had with the outside world.

I think you are vastly underestimating the amount of sources we still have either outright from before contact, or made during the contact peeriod still by native indivuals in their socieites as they still existed; and then also by native survivors during the colonial period.

I'd concede that "reconstructions of their culture" would be accurate for any mesoamerican cultures prior to the late postclassiic period: There's litte to no records of their day to day life or socieites other then archaeological ones (the main exception being that the maya left pretty detailed records of political events, relationships, and records of what a given ruler or royal family did on a given day); but even then archeological sources can be illustrative: The Teotihaucans left no written records, but just by virtue of the ruins being around, we know that they had a massive city, pic related, and that their population was housed in stone, urban apartment complexes and that the city had immigrants from all across the region, since districts of the city built in certain time periods show clear influence from the art motifs and consutrction styles of different cultures (and we also knew they conqueered some maya city states and installed puppet rulers in them from maya records, which we ALSO can infer that they had huge amounts of infleunce since the maya were like 400 miles away).

But for the mid and especially late postclassic, like the Aztecs, we have a TON of sources on the day to day lives, goverment structure, legal systems, military structure, political and economic relationships, etc, and pretty much every facet of their spociety from either native sources. We know as much about them in much the same ways as many greek city states or other ancient cultures that left behind records iin europe and asia.

>Are there even any real Aztec descendants left

No, despite what mexicrap nationalists will claim.

This is always funny. How can you possibly think that every single aztec was bred out by the spanish. There were so many of them and so few spanish, its just retarded.

Only guy in this whole thread who gets it.

I want fantasy ARPG based on ancient Sumerian mythos.
They had plenty of heroes, demons and gods.
Maybe modernize them a bit, Stargate style.

>The bronze and copper axeheads were either used as currency, or used as domestic tools in farming, not in wars.

gonna have to disagree with you on that

>modernize them a bit
The bane of every cool setting.
It just means make them Americans. (see Tyranny for a recent failure)

>Spain vs the world
Then why are there two screencaps of Portuguese battles?

Plenty of people in mexico have some Aztec ancestry. In fact, since Montezuma's descendants were recognized by the Spanish crown as formal Spanish nobility after the conquest, with a formal title given to them that's passed down, we actually know some people who are decended from aztec royalty today.

But genetically, pretty much anybody with Aztec ancestry has it pretty diluted, since core Aztec terriotry is literally just Mexico city today.l There are, however, plenty of parts of mexico that are more rural that still practice many elements of their native culture and are more genetically native. Pic related, for instance, is an indngious guy from a northern mexican group.


The Aztec empire would have almost assuredly fractured no matter what, they were too politically instable. but I don't think it's a garuntee that they would have been conquered otherwise: As I already mentioned in , the Spanish weren't interested in conquering the region intially. If cortes never goes rouge and gooes to the mainland, then it would have likely been decades before anybody else does other then minor stuff on the coast and trading with some coastal Maya. If you can get some contact that way, you'd have a more gradual dieases exchange and it wouldn't hit the urban, densely populated areas to cause outbreaks in the same way, so there'd be more of a chance the dieases wouldn';t cause as many deaths.

Even if you still do get the massive intial outbreak, without europeans coming in to exploit it intially, it might be recoverable. As long as no european power happens to come and swoop in while they are weakened during that period, I think the outlook would be pretty good, especially since the Aztecs would have lost their infleunce in the intial outbreak, thereby not giving many of the native states that allied with the Spanish an impetus to do so if any other european power comes in to conquer stuff.

Before the Mongols buried the irrigation systems the Middle East was a nice place to farm in.

you're doing god's work user
>tfw most people here probably never bothered to research chinese history
while most euros were still flinging shit at eachother the Zhou Dynasty already had invented a form of feudalism

I'll admit there ARE lots of sources that say some copper axes and arrowheads got used, but I've been told/read stuff by actual experts who say that it's people misunderstanding artifacts we have that were either just Axe Monies, religious items, or agricultural adzes.

It's something I intend to look into more, though

Thank you Aztec user I have thoroughly enjoyed your history lesson

t. friendly mexican

Seems to me their pretty similar to axes in copper age and early bronze age Europe.Reminds me of otzi the iceman's axe i remember reading that it would be the most valuable thing he owned and i guess it versatility played into that.

They did the same with the Inca Empire. Apparently, Machu Pichu was so beautiful and majestic that even in Europe it could stand out as an amazing city


Although conquest was inevitable by some civilization with access to guns and horses, i hate how they destroyed a lot of magnificent monuments, artifacts and scientific and medical knowledge,

No, I find antiquity boring. 800-1600 forever please.

100% Finnish fuck you

>china numbah one
Too bad chinkshits never did anything of worth besides create gunpowder so the ebul white man could use it to conquer slanty eyed manlets.

I would love to see ancient china or joseon era korea or meiji japan

what the fuck would you do in the Amazon? you would die from some exotic insect bite before you could find another living person.

hmm lets count
>dragon age
>witchers
>gothics
>kingdom come
>elder scrolls
and also... um.. yeah

Anything? Exploration, treasure hunting, war against drugs, conflict with the natives, survival. And in a fantasy setting you could add lovecraftian mysteries, like a forgotten One in the heart of the forest, etc.

Middle East history is pretty great too. A good portion of scientific and technological discoveries that Europe used were discovered over there

>every jap fantasy game
>every american fantasy game
oh yeah that's absolutely nothing!

compare that to games set in the bronze age.
Your welcome to provide any examples

that is a lie you braintlet. almost all the mathematics that the middle east produced came from conquered greek cities

Are these myceneans?

>Live on a city in the middle of a fucking lake
>Use a wheelbarrow instead of just transporting everything by boat
?

>that ruby wheel toy
richfags gonna richfag

not sure on the image source or if their Myceneans but a lot of their Armour and weapons were widely used.

Greek and Indian my man

But I wasn't talking just about Mathematics (although they do developed the techniques they adquired).

Pretty much this, natives across the whole continent were quick to adopt the horse and even becoming great riders. Natives in south america even taught their horses to run with their legs tied up by bolas

If the english decided they wanted South America too then SA would've gone similar to how North America went with actual colonization and natives being chased off their lands until they hit the oceans

>be glorious europe
>die to rat fleas
OH NO NO NO NO

Not just europe, but asia too. It originated in china

Spaniards couldn't into hydraulics and had to dry the lake so it wouldn't sink

>those texts where they talk about how handsome they are
cortez was so homo for aztecs m8

WE WUZ INCANZ AND SHIEEET

I literally just watch this this threads because of based Aztecanon.
Keep up the good work.

>Wojak on the far left

Fuck, after reading this thread I want a game set in a south/central america jungle with native mythology.

dont forget the native qts!

>Legendary pre-Flood Civilizations