Shin Megami Tensei

Is Demifiend the strongest SMT character?

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No but he gets the best waifu

Indisputable tier list here

>doomguy that high
>nanashi's friends on there
Good list otherwise.

ye

Where's Bunny Blanco and Shaggy Jack?

mem aleph can stand against YHVH and doomguy beat mem aleph

*is the best waifu

Moonguy is definitely that high if you've played DSJ

>3 months until SJ:R comes out
WHAT THE FUCK ATLUS IT'S A FUCKING REMAKE

Blame the Germs and the baguettes, they need their translation, too

>everyone on Cred Forums hates 4/4A and sucks nocturnes cock daily
>i actually prefer 4 to nocturne, which i consider on equal footing with 4A
BORN DIFFERENT

Everyone loves 4A's gameplay, but its story is goddamn awful. 4 has mediocre gameplay and story, so no one gives a shit about it for anything but the music

Why couldn't Stephen stop them?

Stephen was just fucking with them

Aleph is the Lord of the Dance, everyone else was just overkill.

This list is dumb as fuck

yeah but the music is some of the best ever period
youtube.com/watch?v=rG2ikOeXkyU
Also smtivs gameplay is definitely better or at least more satisfying than nocturnes

But IV:A's combat makes IV's redundant. The same can't be said for Nocturne.

Can he the out dance the king of bel?

Nanashi becomes retardedly strong in the true ending of SMTIVA

At least we can agree that Demifiend is cooler than Bad-samurai-hair Flynn and Nanashi the Tranny.

>Doomguy AKA just a guy with guns in SSS tier
>Lucifer's bitch above Lucifer himself

thats true. But i played them in order so I kinda judged them just based on the immediate predecessor(s).
I liked all of the games alot, each one had something that was indisputably better than the others
>nocturne: story
>SJ: art style/tone
>iv: music
>ivA: combat
Although my favorite part of 4A might have been those random pins that came with it

>true ending
>implying Atlus will let YHVH be some twink for his next appearance

He defeat the final boss with the help of Flynn and the others though.

That would be Nanashi

yes but hes also far less cool than SJ protag

Lucifer's small time now thanks to IV and IV:A

That's because IV and IV:A are garbage lore-wise, and would be better off as spinoffs instead of mainline entries.

just a guy with a gun solo'd the demiurge

shameless bump

>page 2
>bumping

Doomguy got the most done relative to his actual power level.
HUMAN PRIDE WORLDWIDE

Flynn is literally Nanashi's mindslaved bitch at that point and Nanashi just got finished fucking Satan up a minute before the fight. This thing that "he had help so he's not really strong" makes no sense

That's why he's so cool. He's not a messiah or half-demon or the reincarnation of Adam or some other manner of chosen one. Just a guy in a suit who has masterful control over the demons he encounters and recruits.

Where would Hacker rank?

Literally different universes and the game directly addresses that they're different universes you fags

Nocturne was able to handle different universes/reincarnation/Amala Networks without being retarded, so IV and IV:A have no excuse.

YHVH encompasses the entire multiverse according to Nocturne

>SMT II's best tracks are spread between the SNES and PS1 version

Same. What rubs me the wrong way about Nocturne is how the game tries to force you into doing TDE and insults you for picking any other route, despite the fact that TDE is edgy and retarded. Each route also affects nothing outside of the Tower of Kagutsuchi.

IV is better solely because it actually looks at the pros and cons of Law and Chaos, and actually fleshes out both sides throughly.

Not anymore, in the remake doom guy literally becomes doom guy and becomes the immortal protector of humanity.
Flynn is now the true normalfag of the franchise.

>Lucifer's weak now because in a different universe he's weaker
Wow makes perfect sense

except chaos is retarded in IV and law is even more retarded by killing you off in addition to being a bad idea

Wat? And here i'm thinking to start SMT II. So which version is less shit?

>play through DDS1 (my first SMT) with my gf
>love it
>make my way through DDS2
>total fucking chore, dumb as hell and a total waste of DDS1's story and characters
>we both decide to just not play the final dungeon then groaned as we watched the boss and final cutscenes online
Tadashi Satomi is a garbage writer and I haven't been let down by a game like that in a long while.

seraph and fighting brahman was kino, shut up

fighting the archangels at the end was the best part of persona 5.

i know it's not smt proper but dang i really liked those fights, they were really gar and good. felt really SMT.

To be fair, he did that at the very end, after he wrecked most of the Schwarzwald

then it ruined it by making yaldabaoth just a literally who collective consciousness shitter instead of the actual demiurge

Yeah i didn't really like yaldabaoth or his weird status effects that did nothing

DDS has a good main crew but god awful settings and gameplay, mainline is much better all around

The scale was too small for him to be the actual demiurge

Yaldabaoth is the same thing as the Demiurge. All demons and personas are a manifestation of humanity's consciousness and perception. It's sort of a central theme of the entire series dude

That's pretty much every persona final boss.

YHVH's the creator of humans but draws his power from their belief, the Demiurge is an aspect of YHVH gone rogue. Yaldabaoth was just a manifestation of Tokyo's desire for order

>bought apocalypse for these
>dropped them and a car ran them over

Where is Joker Blanco?

>not Junpei Rose

Chaos in IV:
>Demons are stronger than humans. Therefore, humans must become subservient to them.

Chaos (TDE) in Nocturne:
>DUDE! Ya know what would be the best way to free humanity from YHVH? By killing billions of humans! XD


Law in IV:
>Humans cannot survive without God. Therefore, they must be protected by him and denied freedom.

Law (Reasons) in Nocturne:
>Let's maintain the cycle of life and death, and create one of three possible civilisations. Let's also ensure that the player is locked out of 50% of the game's content by doing this and have the game call the player a coward for not wanting to commit human genocide.

I fail to see your point.

what version of smt 1 did you play?

The Demiurge is an aspect of YHVH according to some games in the series. Just like Lucifer is an aspect of Satan in some games where he's not in others. And just like we often have demons who are really the same demon but perceived slightly differently like Queen Mab vs Titania. You're making the mistake of applying one universe's logic to another's in a series where we know for a fact there are different universes with very different rules, even as far as some universes where YHVH ostensibly doesn't exist and other beings are the big rulers

>kino
>"God" hates humans being violent
>Go all the way to the sun only for it to say "You must fight me" because it's SMT and you have to kill God
>Schrodinger gives you a pat on the back and Fred fucks like six women and they all give birth to reincarnated asuras who are STILL wearing Junkyard outfits???
Final bullets that killed it.

The Junkyard is pretty great desu. I've played some of SMTIV now and the world isn't captivating at all.

Different Lucifer, you dingus. It was actually just a fragment of Satan, hence it being a bitch.

Also, even with his transformation from Doomguy to Moonguy, does Marine have any feats to place him and Aleph that high?

Wasn't the world already completely destroyed in nocturne? There wouldn't be any humans alive to kill. Also Yosuga is closer to chaos, and the TDE was added in after the game was released, so the others aren't losing content, tde just has more, smt iv handles that worse since you lose more by not going neutral and that wasn't from a re-release, I fail to see your point.

Aleph is too high. He only beat a lower-level YHVH, not the 9th dimensional one in Apocalypse.

Canopus is 5th dimensional so he should be in tier just under YHVH

This tier list is all kinds of fucked up

Better tier list here.
I feel like Doomguy should be moved up a bit due to DSJ.

Aleph canonically outdanced demon Michael Jackson, so probably.

>What rubs me the wrong way about Nocturne is how the game tries to force you into doing TDE and insults you for picking any other route, despite the fact that TDE is edgy and retarded.

The Good Neutral ending is good too.

shiet

Does Joker go at the bottom?

Lucifer is implied to be the other multiverse Lucifers though when you defeat him in Apocalypse, since he says that he has been defeated yet again and that his squidward form was not enough this time

>Akihiko Ultra Instinct

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

mem aleph is stated to have given YHVH a really tough fight at the beginning of the universe so she's probably on the level of at least demon YHVH

Yeah, I'd say Joker and Nanashi go in the bottom two tiers.

>Raidou and Serph on the same level.

That just doesn't feel right.

It was probably a single YHVH head like with SMT2 Aleph. The one in Apocalypse is massively above everyone else in the series besides the obvious ones like Stephen and the Axiom

YHVH's above the amala network according to Lucifer and Apocalypse also confirms the multiverse ruled by YHVH (maybe the amala network, maybe not) through Stephen and the logs, even in the universes where YHVH apparently doesn't exist, it's just implied that he doesn't give a fuck about them like when you fight Satan in DDS2 and Schrodinger says that he served a different God than Brahman

I actually like that quote from him a lot but it's obviously up to interpretation what it means. It could mean he's had different incarnations within SMT4's verse (which is a concept the SMT4 artbook touches on a little bit). Or he could be aware of the multiverse without being the exact same being across them. Either way, him saying his Squidward form sucks doesn't say anything about his Nocturne form or anything else

>Serph needing a hug
>when he becomes one with Sera and basically gets a soul hug 24/7

...

This doesn't make sense though, in SMT IVA he's a fragment of Satan whereas in 2 they exist independently.

Joker is an unhinged vigilante who sees the world as corrupt and see's absolutely nothing wrong with brainwashing people. He needs a hug so put him in the recommended tier

He's a fragment of Satan in the same way that Odin is a fragment of Dagda.

he's a fragment of the ultimate Satan in charge of the multiverse's YHVH, the Satan we saw in 2 was a servant of a single YHVH head like said. Also implied with the metatron hordes

Where in the name of God are pulling that from?

Demiqua is the strongest bottom bitch in SMT

Because Axiom.

Nanashi actually went through a lot of horrible shit, but at least he can get a good ending.

It'd be a different story if Pascal-tan stayed dead after she got vored.

I don't understand the gap between Door-kun and Door-chan. The audio dramas show she's empty underneath the smile.

Stop being silly. There isn't "Satan" and then "Mega Galaxy Satan". The Satan in 4A is just a Satan.

>It'd be a different story if Pascal-tan stayed dead after she got vored.
Should've happened

Is the crossover DLC canon? If so, all the SMT protags exist in a unified multiverse according to Stephen and the YHVH you take out in SMTIV:A is an amalgamation of all the different universes's YHVHs seeing as the Axiom takes you there to fuck his shit up

>nocturne
>story
nocturne literally had no story whatsoever except for lore dump by lucifer

It's more correct to say that you play Nocturne for the atmosphere, not the story

Like someone else said, that could be interpreted as all of the YHVHs from each timeline in 4verse.

Satan and the Archangels are obviously from SMT2. The Archangels dialogue directly reference that. DDS also directly tells that it's possible for data to move across universes (Schrodinger comes to DDS and together with Seraph they travel to others afterwards). Demi-Fiend's data appearing in DDS1 is also an example (aside from being fanservice)

It's up in the air why or how data slips into the DDS universe but the amala cylinders all over Brahman's body are a good hint. In any case, Brahman is clearly the one who controls the data and humanity in the DDS verse, not YHVH or anyone else

>nocturne literally had no story
Typical brainlet that needs to be fed, what next, bloodborne has no story too?

Yeah

>Mem Aleph that high
Ell oh ell

>Literally beat up YHVH and stole his lunch money
?

Yeah but also get's styled on by spess marine after all the other tedious gay suit he's had to do just to confront her

Snes

Oh god lol I just realized how fucked it is

The highest tiers (except the supreme two) are fucked enough, but Kagutsuchi is weaker than Meta and Beelz

Oh Jesus this list is shit

You have got to be massively retarded if you think Nocturne and Bloodborne don't have stories just because they don't have an assload of exposition and cinematics

That was Aleph as far my understanding goes not Mem-Aleph.

>4baby
None of the games have /that/ much story going on mainline wise

This

And I'm pretty sure Demifiend needs many hugs since all this friends turned into douches.

Sera is a retarded cunt, and fusing with her is like sentencing yourself to an eternity of suffering.

>And I'm pretty sure Demifiend needs many hugs since he had to play through 20 stages of Puzzle Boy.

fixed

>wear Dagda pin on a normal hat
>someone in class asks about my pin
>"it's from a videogame"
>what game user?
>"uhhh Shin Megami Tensei 4: Apocalypse"
>oh, okay
>then they give me this disappointed look
>mfw

You guys are severely underestimating marine.

Despite literally all logic and odds being against him he fucking beat Mem Aleph, a being that fucked up YHVH. It is completely illogical and improbable but he did it. This is SMT, power levels are all over the place.
>counting SJ and DSJ as the same universe
I see them as different but similar universes, sort of like IV and IV:A.

>those shoes

>Abel higher than Bunny

fixed? maybe

How is Nanashi not YHVH tier?

>caring about what some random normie thinks
>wearing a fucking pin in the first place
>being ashamed of your love for Dagda
Fucking neck yourself

Mainline Protagonist Design Ranking:

Doomguy > Hideto > SMTI The Hero > Concept Art Nanashi > Demi-fiend > Flynn > If... Protagonists >>>>>>>>>>> Nanashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the abomination that is the NINE characters.

you're right I should have killed him

Flynn is definitely the most underrated normalfag

>Not half-demon
>Not getting powers from an Irish god of life and death
>Not strong from a supersuit
>Not a reincarnation of a religious figure
>Just a reincarnation of a Japanese dude with cool hair who sacrificed himself to save Tokyo in a previous life

>tfw this retard made a 30 min video explaining his subjective rankings
I can't believe he actually expects people to watch his autistic ranting for half an hour.

Personas > Demons

Flynn is still a messiah sent by the axiom. Marine is the most normalfag, his demonica helped but it's not like wearing it made him invincible. Jimenez tells you the suit grows with the user, however that works.

You forgot Aleph

Where would Flynn and Nanashi go?
I'm guessing Flynn would be recommended and Nanashi would be too many

>canopus
>weaker than yhvh
>demifiend
>weaker than nanashi and abel

Demons > Atma Avatars > P1/2 Personas > P3-5 Personad

Aleph has ascended beyond any tier list

>being this much of a normalfag

...

>Flynn in his magic demon suit and advanced weaponry is more normal than the teenage boy running around with a dog, a knife, and a gun

beelzebub is way stronger than the booger

Messiah is just a title. Being a Messiah doesn't auto-make you awesome or else Nanashi wouldn't have gotten killed in the first 20 minutes

Oh shit, you're right, Nakajima too since I see MTI/II as partially mainline.

Doomguy > Hideto > SMTI The Hero > Concept Art Nanashi > Demi-fiend > Flynn > Aleph > Nakajima > If... Protagonists >>>>>>>>>>> Nanashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the abomination that is the NINE characters.

how the fuck is doomguy so strong
he's just a marine

raidou is way too high, should be on b

>Flynn in his fashionable as fuck samurai outfit is less normalfag than a reincarnation of Adam

I didn't say that. The Hero is also the reincarnation of Adam though, that's why the heroine (Eve) and Lilith wanted him and Lilith wanted the heroine dead. While relatively just some guy hw has some importance.

>We'll never get more Atma-style designs

fuck

Mem Aleph, along with the other mothers, defeated YHVH and Marine, despite all logic, beat Mem Aleph in a regular fight. He also beat Demiurge, an aspect of YHVH.

>Despite literally all logic and odds being against him he fucking beat Mem Aleph, a being that fucked up YHVH. It is completely illogical and improbable but he did it. This is SMT, power levels are all over the place.
Honestly, a lot of power levels in regards to demon tamers are what demons they can cook up.

I feel the same. I love them but they would be weird in anything but DDS.

>YHVH is supposed to be the highest tier of being.
>Lol jk axiom
God dammit SMT.

The Axiom isn't really something the series dwells on at all and most of the info people spout about it comes from a few fags who edit the megamitensei wiki and their headcanon. 4:A was the only time it got exposition and it's not clear whether it's a sentient being or just a literal "Axiom" that has effect on the multiverse

Did you play SJ?

We'll see when the Axiom is the final boss of the Switch SMT and we'll find out what created the Axiom.

I want to FUCK Vayu

God I hope not. The fact you fight YHVH is already dumb but fighting the axiom wouls be even more retarded.

jenna pls go

>charming
>handsome
>caring
>absolutely no ulterior motives, only wants to help others
Why is Mastema the best character in all media?

I think DF should probably be in SS. He hits all over those two in Apoc. I hacked him into my Apoc save for some demon bro-op and he actually levels faster than fucking Nanashi on top of no-selling everything but gun.

I think most put him lower as although he defeated Lucufer he still more or less is his bottom bitch and serves him. As to if he actually could go fuck up the YHVH of his universe is unknown.

He's tied for the top with Aleph and Godslayer Nanashi, but only if you consider that thing about him beating the Great Will to be canon

>those hands
he truly is our greatest ally

He never beat the Great Will though.

A lot of SMT fans make up a lot of head canon about their favorite characters

>He never beat the Great Will though.
That's because no one has.

We are told he went off to fight the great will and that's all we know, he could have won or he could have lost, I doubt he won though because the smt multiverse still exists.

You guys seem to be forgetting that Mem Aleph didn't fight YHVH alone and they attacked him in a severely weakened state

Best Heroine?

>pic related

Delete this, son of man.

Whose your demon bro Cred Forums?

SMT got me into German and Celtic mythology and Siegfried's stories are really cool to me. Wish he had more appearances though.

...

Name one (1[uno]) party in videogames that could take them.

You're forgetting
>God Tier: Great Will
At the very top.

...

Nope, actually it's starting to shift the other way.
SJ is the best, with 3 after that

While true defeating all the mothers is still no small feat. He also defeated Demiurge who treated fucking Metatron like a ragdoll.

He's not Aleph tier, yes, but he is pretty fucking strong and could probably at least pose some threat to YHVH.

FemMc is pretty fucked up on the inside though.

She's pretty cool, probably my favorite mainline heroine. Too bad Aleph could never fuck her.

Overall I think Nemissa is my overall favorite, she just a fun personality.

Great Will is a meme. Half the time the term is used in the games it's obvious it's referring to YHVH. Wiki fags will have you think it's referring to the same thing as the Axiom in SMT4:A (Which is probably what the fag who made the image thinks). Nothing conclusive either way is said in the games and it's obvious the term isn't used consistently enough to argue about its power level on a tier list

oh shit

...

Golden Yu vs El Tio Junes

...

What about Flinn's friends

Ok Cred Forums riddle me this
Why the fuck the multi-hit enemies abilities exist?

How the hell's Law a bad idea in IV? Thanks to parallel universes and time dilation, you see just how fucking wrong everything goes if you don't actually follow Law's path for humanity.

They let humanity develop the modern world as is, only stepping in when the threat of the Expanse being opened would lead to a demon apocalypse. As it turns out, if they don't interfere, Infernal Tokyo happens, justifying taking actions to stop it.

Then, they make Mikado to be the new starting point for humanity, but people from Tokyo can still come through Naraku. They allow Akira to come through, because he was powerful and agreed to stop others from going through. This is one, single young kid with good intentions that happens to have demon knowledge. His introduction and three of the Archangels being sealed away so that they don't remove the influence leads to a society so fucked up and repressed that they can turn into demons at the drop of a hat and live shitty lives.

Pretty fucking clear if Infernal Tokyo happens with no interference and current Mikado happens from a saint like Akira being let in, they just need to fucking nuke Tokyo and be done with it to start over. That includes Flynn sure, but they can outright guarantee an afterlife, and all the angels even kill themselves so they won't influence humans afterwards.

Shit is the probably the most logical, best law endings in the series.

>Gets his ass kicked so hard by YHVH off-screen that what's left of him is just dicking around the Network
>Strongest

Ha, no.

Is that lilith in a suit?
Is that watch supposed to be a coiled snake?

Lol ukken saved

Have you never played SMT1?

go to sleep goro

White or bust

?????? If you are using the apocalypse dlc as a source than that isn't canon since every hero there comes from a timeline where they lost so it isn't canon, bad logic.

Are you 12? You type like someone from 2008.

Because your forced to worship a god who would destroy the land your in if the smallest thing annoys him. The world isn't even that good since your forced into a cattle system that makes it so only people with higher power gets things and even when that is put aside you still have to deal with the fact your going to be replaced in the near future with humans who only pray to the god that fucked you over.

DDS, bruh.

Nothing in DDS says he lost and the fact the he is still alive and super powerful means he probably didn't.

You guys are looking at it as if it is a fully canon appearance. It literally is just a random bonus fight.

>game series where every ending is canon
>including endings that were not in the game in the first place
>but there's absolutely no way that bad endings are canon

Who said you could leave the expanse?

>normies
Fuck you reddit

...

Honestly, seeing this guy stand up was legitimately my biggest "oh fuck" moment in the entire franchise.

Exactly what parts of the story didnt you like? Overall i really like the story in dds (Also I recommend you quantum devil saga,which is pretty much dds original story)

Not even stairs can stop him now

I'd share mine with you user, haven't even opened them.

>Steven stands up.
>He's wielding fucking singularities

Nope, seeing how he runs away of Raidou like a bitch. Raidou is the strongest one.

...

In the human world? Sure.
In the Expanse? That'd be Tamaki.

I honestly wonder how they are going to top the Stephen fight in V. Atlus blew their load too early.

By actually letting those protags be recruitable and not just in one dlc mission

The same Tamaki that lost to a persona user?

Key word: Expanse. She's a literal godslayer on that side but human in meatspace.

The SMTV protag against the faggots Persona protags

you have to fight against them instead of with them

Nakajima

Kaneko and Cozy.

By fighting against Yu Narukami

Secret boss fight against Nanashi-YHVH.

Is the same composer from SMT4 and 4A making the music for SMTV? The ost is one of the best i have hear in a lot of SMT games

His tattooed bitch ass couldn't even beat Lucy, what do you think?

Ye

He can still solo'd all the persona 4 main cast.

>Not Nanashi, his crew, and Dagda-II

Fuck Anarchy, Breakfast Club was the better ending.

I love the edits this fight and the YHVH brought us though.

I don't think we know the composer or main artist yet.

Don't underestimate the power of friendship.

Friendship means jack shit when you have people who slaughter actual gods on a daily basis.

>Friendship

lad he already made the music for the trailer

>implying he can beat the pussy slayer

>butthurt potato god

Is the first paragraph an actual quote? I'm trying to remember

While its a cool concept those fights always go to try to burst one guy down and then just turtle away your victory.

Maybe you need to kill them all in one turn?

JUST FUCKING KILL YOUR FRIENDS BOYO!!

Shit, I didn't know that. I fully welcome him. I love Meguro but if IV had one truly great aspect it was music. I don't know how he did it but he fucking made maybe the best soundtrack in gaming.

Sort of

He was right though, at least about the part about striving to be better as an individual

Yep, just beat the game last week. Dagda is genuinely THAT edgy.

It is also stupid as in his actual lore that is nothing like Dagda. Dagda is actually described in his stories as sort of like a hip partying grandpa who gets drunk and tries to fuck as many goddesses as possible.

He spent too much time in hell away from observation and saw his kid become a christslut from what the artbook apparently says

He may be a secondary character but he is top tier anons.

Embrace Law

>Law

>Ever trusting angels

Did Strange Journey and SMT II teach you nothing?

>and saw his kid become a christslut from what the artbook
Who was that

>ywn have someone as pure and trustworthy as Jon as your bro

Brigid, whos an actual demon you can get in the game.

uhhhh god but the real one

...

>Atlus blew their load too early.
Not really since Stephen let them win since all he needed, simply put that is, was the energy of battle to bring that nerd back. He was not after an actual all out bought ,from his end at least, so if anything what was shown was just a teas and more so as way to shut up anyone ever wondering how a cripple man has been able to keep himself at bay from both the likes of YHVH and the Great will.

Also apparently the new final boss for the 3ds remake is Shekinah, who's on the same tier as YHVH.

>Zombie Loli and Fake Loli

>lusting after angels
Thats just a really tsundere chaos demon user. Pay them no mind
Eternal salvation, paradise on death, a community of love and trust and serenity. Not all Law routes are good but Law is good.
You have to strive to be him user. He is like Junpei, you have to look up to them and strive to be like em.

Oh, forgot my pic, here anons.

user, the only good Law route is Devil Survivor. Every other one is either priming your ass for YHVH's dick or burning society to the ground because you're afraid of human choice.

Reminder he didn't even fight seriously despite being against four of the most powerful protags in entire the series. Stephen is fucking OP.

Just beat Persona 3, first game of the Megami Tensei series. Besides moving on with Persona what else should I try? P3 left an amazing impression, want to try more.

To be fair I'd be pissed too if YHVH cucked me as hard as he did Dagda. A lot of people forget that Chaos is really only held together because YHVH realy is just that big of a cunt in SMT.

>Megaten 2 guy
What did that fag do to deserve being that high?

Killed god.

Nice try with the bait. But to actually answer your question, if you're looking for more P3, P4's your next step - it's just less grimdark. P5's actually a decent bridge between Persona and the mainline, so after that I'd go P5 and use that to jump into mainline. Nocturne, 4, and Strange Journey are good places to start there.

>not a YHVH OP
this isn't how you start an SMT thread

First guy to slay YHVH.

I honestly suggest Nocturne. Persona 3-5 are pretty different from other games in the series but I think you may like the other games. P4 and P5 are more light hearted with more "power of friendship" kind of stuff and mainline/other spinoffs are typically more dark with heavier themes.
In MTII he literally just straight up kills god. Also he has a cool cyborg arm.

Killed YHVH and got a bitchin' robot arm.

>not even a special edition
REEEEEE

>The fact you fight YHVH is already dumb
how so? Honestly how so? YHVH is an infinite being spread infinitely thin. Then add to that every single SMT protag is imbued with a bit of the great wills power. How is it dumb then that whenever going up against YHVH whatever protag is only going up against a tiny ass portion of its full power.
Really how is that dumb exactly?

What choice?

The choice of literaly letting Tokyo, a demon infested hellhole stay as is? The choice to try and let humans, not demigods like you, humans, with families, friends, to somehow try and deal with a demonic infestation, when they couldnt before? The choice of getting assraped by demons? The choice to live underground forever, barely surviving, never thriving, constantly trying to scrape by and living forever in fear of a demon raid to come and murderfuck you?

What choice. What future does choice give you user. What makes you think this is better for the people? What makes you think Law doesnt end with the common man and woman happy, fulfiled, at peace and among peacefull individuals?

Law has unity, prosperity, calm. It has guaranteed blessing of record scratch, actual heaven when you die, actual stability and no demon infested hellhole cities. People flourish, people thrive. They dont survive, they live.

Its like new vegas. No ending is good but the one where society begins to trully re-establish itself and reform, not just the status quo worsening or staying as is.

Outside of Steven, it has to be Nanashi's faggot ass. Demifiend dies like a bitch in 4A.

>supectible to charm

>MT2 Protag
That reminds me, that game was pretty retarded sometimes
>Forced to insult and betray your best friend(Which gets him turned into a demon, betrayed again, and killed) just because an old man wants a girl to give him a massage

Dlc doesn't make much sense. Otherwise hero would be the strongest protagonist by far.

>implying he isn't
Fucking crushes rocks with his bare hands.

Personally, and this is coming from someone who is agnostic, that YHVH is presented as too much of a villain in SMT. Because he is referred to as his Hebrew name he is obviously more based on lore with Judaism. The thing is that in Judaism YHVH is presented as more of a mysterious figure. Being this ultimate ruler and such he has quite a hand in the bad aspects of the world, but also in the good. I think he should be more "mysterious" in his intentions and the series just randomly vilifying him seems ignorant.

Overall I'm not a fan of the series' treatment of YHVH, in any interpretation.

Betatron, reveal thyself and remove thyself.

>Implying Nakajima is ever returning in any form but a mention or cameo
He's not that strong anyway

Muhammad

YHVH is a complete dick in Judaism

A neet being as strong as demi is way too silly. All hero did before the dlc was download malware and run errands for his mother.

it's already confirmed to be Kozuka

Hero wasn't a NEET, what are you talking about? Also he has at least some magical bullshit on his side since he's the reincarnation of Adam.

>no counterpoint
Even filth can be reformed user. In due time, you will apreciate the side of Law you realize you always wanted.

The love. The care. The joy. The sincerety.

The waifu you love and that will never cheat on you. The feeling of complete peace with the world and your fellow men. The satisfaction of a work well done. The connection to divinity.

In due time, son of man.

But the proof is in the rocks crushed. The irony considering his death.
Plus was he a neet? The cafe in 1 had some school girl who knew him

Sort of, he is pretty dickish at times sure but I wouldn't say presenting him as a villain is appropriate.

I guess SMTIV:A did it worse then SMTII though since I feel like the only reason you even fight him in that game is because it's "cool" and whoever made Iv and IV:A really wanted refrences every fucking minute to prior games.

And then he was crushed by a rock and died, what a powerhouse.

No, he was a normalfag. Law hero was presumably a chad since he had a gf and chaos hero was essentially the japanese equivalent to a school shooter.

>Hero wasn't a NEET
Prove it.
Being the reincarnation of Adam is actually a handicap. His buddies were casting spells and shit when all he could do was swing a sword.

Weakness to earth element :^)

You had to take him out in Apoc because if you didn't, more groups like the Divine Powers were going to happen because YHVH didn't want to share his fucking sandbox.

If that's how he died it's a shame he wasn't the reincarnation of Cain or Abel

Random npcs knew him and he left his house to do random errands. At most he seems like a slightly more computer literate guy.
>implying anything other then ailment bullets and zio is used in SMTI
Do you even broken dungeon crawling?

Do NOT play this on a blind stream.
It was probably the most humiliating time of my life. I finished it, but wow... It was rough.

Pssst. This might shock you but Zio is a spell. That makes hero weaker than people who can use spells and guns.
Plus, there's that crazy bitch following you atiubd/trying to kill you.
Being Adam is a fucking handicap.

He genocided children, I'm pretty sure that's villainous

How much different SMT 2 would had been with him alive.

>true demon ending is just lets kill all humans lmao
How the fuck do you manage to fuck the 5 minutes of lore nocturne has, humanity was already dead, the manikins where basically ghosts that couldnt do shit and were gonna die one way or another
In the maze the demons all tell demi that lucifer plan is to kill yhvh to restore some balance because the great will is busy having 7D sex with stephen and wont take care of his shitty abomination

So why is YHVH always portrayed above Brahmin or Kagutsuchi? They're basically the strongest entities in their respective amala universes.

>swing flaming fire sword
Worth it

FUN Fact: within the code of Nocture there are 30, FUCKING THIRTY, more levels for the puzzle boy mingame.

Imagine having to do 50 levels of that bullshit.

Is puzzle boy really that hard

Is there a way to enable them? I actually loved puzzle boy and its theme.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=IckRhKXfWxo

At least the looks cool while the heroine does all the hard lifting early/midgame.
Still better than doomguy i guess.

Hero's lucky he's in a world where he doesn't need to lift. Wurld of nerve bullets.

The thing with this though is that for all intents and purposes YHVH is a false god. The great will is the closest thing to god really more so than YHVH himself. YHVH has always played all sides of the Law vs Chaos against one another since the never ending conflict just makes him ever stronger. YHVHs intentions are actually still kind of a mystery since we know what he is doing but not for what purpose. SMTs YHVH is just doing shit for the sake of power but we still do not really know as to what he wants to do with that.
So if anything the great will is actually more akin to the biblical god than YHVH who just had such an innately mad awesome gossip game that through that alone he has managed to become one of the strongest being. You seem to be taking things at such a face value that you seem to miss the subtext. SMTs YHVH is only meant to be mistaken as god but is not god really no more no less.

>not maxing out str and vit

The puzzles can really wrack your brain if you attempt it without a guide.
Just takes a lot of patience.
Just, do it alone. You will feel very, very stupid.

Only if you are dumb.

>no shaggy blanco
>doomguy stronger than Flynn and Nanashi
>Demifiend not SSS rank at least
>nanashi's friend not being at D tier at best

Damn, I must be dumb.

I think they can be enabled through debug mode on an emulator. Look up Nocturne's page on tcrf, they have more info on it.
Stage 8 was when I called quits, I couldn't do it.

>maxing out str and vit instead of int and vit

Yes actually. It isn't crazy difficult but the last few levels really do require you to play 4D chess.

>Striving to be like Stupei or Jonathan

>Chaos in IV:
>>Demons are stronger than humans. Therefore, humans must become subservient to them.
That's not what Chaos in SMT IV is. Lucifer doesn't want humans to serve demons. He wants the world between demons and humans to be severed in Mikado and give freedom to its inhabitants in the most brutal way.

>Chaos (TDE) in Nocturne:
>DUDE! Ya know what would be the best way to free humanity from YHVH? By killing billions of humans! XD

Are you retarded or lying? There is no killing humans because they're already dead in the game. The game is post apocalyptic.

>Law in IV:
>>Humans cannot survive without God. Therefore, they must be protected by him and denied freedom.
No it's: "brainwash everyone and turn them into mindless zombies". Also the angels are the ones who rule, rebelling against the Lord in SMT IV.

>Law (Reasons) in Nocturne:
>>Let's maintain the cycle of life and death, and create one of three possible civilisations. Let's also ensure that the player is locked out of 50% of the game's content by doing this and have the game call the player a coward for not wanting to commit human genocide.
There are multiple Law endings in Nocturne. There is the Stillness ending and there's the "everyone gets their own world" ending. Those are all Law. Again, humanity is already dead. There's also nothing about civilizations.

You haven't played any of those games.

He's an idiot who hasn't played the game. That's why he doesn't know the lore which is easy to comprehend.

Was it ever explained who was the kid that fucked over the bussinesman so hard he reincarnated as dagda 0.5?

>he wants to be Hoyboy

>I actually loved puzzle boy
Have I got a game for you then.

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