Shin Megami Tensei

Cameron Hughes
Cameron Hughes

Is Demifiend the strongest SMT character?

All urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=rG2ikOeXkyU
youtube.com/watch?v=IckRhKXfWxo

Justin Rogers
Justin Rogers

No but he gets the best waifu

Alexander Miller
Alexander Miller

Indisputable tier list here

Hudson Adams
Hudson Adams

doomguy that high
nanashi's friends on there
Good list otherwise.

Nathan Harris
Nathan Harris

ye

Cameron Hughes
Cameron Hughes

Where's Bunny Blanco and Shaggy Jack?

Jack Myers
Jack Myers

mem aleph can stand against YHVH and doomguy beat mem aleph

Julian Fisher
Julian Fisher

*is the best waifu

Levi Martin
Levi Martin

Moonguy is definitely that high if you've played DSJ

Aaron Stewart
Aaron Stewart

3 months until SJ:R comes out
WHAT THE FUCK ATLUS IT'S A FUCKING REMAKE

Jose Thomas
Jose Thomas

Blame the Germs and the baguettes, they need their translation, too

Luke Ward
Luke Ward

everyone on Cred Forums hates 4/4A and sucks nocturnes cock daily
i actually prefer 4 to nocturne, which i consider on equal footing with 4A
BORN DIFFERENT

Josiah Foster
Josiah Foster

Everyone loves 4A's gameplay, but its story is goddamn awful. 4 has mediocre gameplay and story, so no one gives a shit about it for anything but the music

Thomas Gonzalez
Thomas Gonzalez

Why couldn't Stephen stop them?

Thomas Davis
Thomas Davis

Stephen was just fucking with them

Jace Fisher
Jace Fisher

Aleph is the Lord of the Dance, everyone else was just overkill.

Jace Gomez
Jace Gomez

This list is dumb as fuck

Chase Young
Chase Young

yeah but the music is some of the best ever period
youtube.com/watch?v=rG2ikOeXkyU
Also smtivs gameplay is definitely better or at least more satisfying than nocturnes

Dylan Miller
Dylan Miller

But IV:A's combat makes IV's redundant. The same can't be said for Nocturne.

Isaac Sanchez
Isaac Sanchez

Can he the out dance the king of bel?

William Walker
William Walker

Nanashi becomes retardedly strong in the true ending of SMTIVA

Ryan Clark
Ryan Clark

At least we can agree that Demifiend is cooler than Bad-samurai-hair Flynn and Nanashi the Tranny.

Dominic Morgan
Dominic Morgan

Doomguy AKA just a guy with guns in SSS tier
Lucifer's bitch above Lucifer himself

Leo Davis
Leo Davis

thats true. But i played them in order so I kinda judged them just based on the immediate predecessor(s).
I liked all of the games alot, each one had something that was indisputably better than the others
nocturne: story
SJ: art style/tone
iv: music
ivA: combat
Although my favorite part of 4A might have been those random pins that came with it

Nathan Hall
Nathan Hall

true ending
implying Atlus will let YHVH be some twink for his next appearance

Aiden Gonzalez
Aiden Gonzalez

He defeat the final boss with the help of Flynn and the others though.

Cooper Sullivan
Cooper Sullivan

That would be Nanashi

Jacob Walker
Jacob Walker

yes but hes also far less cool than SJ protag

John White
John White

Lucifer's small time now thanks to IV and IV:A

Grayson White
Grayson White

That's because IV and IV:A are garbage lore-wise, and would be better off as spinoffs instead of mainline entries.

Kayden Collins
Kayden Collins

just a guy with a gun solo'd the demiurge

Levi Walker
Levi Walker

shameless bump

Jason Wilson
Jason Wilson

page 2
bumping

Angel Myers
Angel Myers

Doomguy got the most done relative to his actual power level.
HUMAN PRIDE WORLDWIDE

Justin James
Justin James

Flynn is literally Nanashi's mindslaved bitch at that point and Nanashi just got finished fucking Satan up a minute before the fight. This thing that "he had help so he's not really strong" makes no sense

Matthew Wright
Matthew Wright

That's why he's so cool. He's not a messiah or half-demon or the reincarnation of Adam or some other manner of chosen one. Just a guy in a suit who has masterful control over the demons he encounters and recruits.

Andrew Lopez
Andrew Lopez

Where would Hacker rank?

Isaiah Murphy
Isaiah Murphy

Literally different universes and the game directly addresses that they're different universes you fags

Charles Stewart
Charles Stewart

Nocturne was able to handle different universes/reincarnation/Amala Networks without being retarded, so IV and IV:A have no excuse.

Nathaniel Price
Nathaniel Price

YHVH encompasses the entire multiverse according to Nocturne

Jeremiah Walker
Jeremiah Walker

SMT II's best tracks are spread between the SNES and PS1 version

Gavin Reed
Gavin Reed

Same. What rubs me the wrong way about Nocturne is how the game tries to force you into doing TDE and insults you for picking any other route, despite the fact that TDE is edgy and retarded. Each route also affects nothing outside of the Tower of Kagutsuchi.

IV is better solely because it actually looks at the pros and cons of Law and Chaos, and actually fleshes out both sides throughly.

Sebastian Rodriguez
Sebastian Rodriguez

Not anymore, in the remake doom guy literally becomes doom guy and becomes the immortal protector of humanity.
Flynn is now the true normalfag of the franchise.

Wyatt Morgan
Wyatt Morgan

Lucifer's weak now because in a different universe he's weaker
Wow makes perfect sense

Juan Johnson
Juan Johnson

except chaos is retarded in IV and law is even more retarded by killing you off in addition to being a bad idea

Xavier Jones
Xavier Jones

Wat? And here i'm thinking to start SMT II. So which version is less shit?

Gavin Moore
Gavin Moore

play through DDS1 (my first SMT) with my gf
love it
make my way through DDS2
total fucking chore, dumb as hell and a total waste of DDS1's story and characters
we both decide to just not play the final dungeon then groaned as we watched the boss and final cutscenes online
Tadashi Satomi is a garbage writer and I haven't been let down by a game like that in a long while.

Kayden Gomez
Kayden Gomez

seraph and fighting brahman was kino, shut up

Jace Parker
Jace Parker

fighting the archangels at the end was the best part of persona 5.

i know it's not smt proper but dang i really liked those fights, they were really gar and good. felt really SMT.

William Murphy
William Murphy

To be fair, he did that at the very end, after he wrecked most of the Schwarzwald

Brody Rivera
Brody Rivera

then it ruined it by making yaldabaoth just a literally who collective consciousness shitter instead of the actual demiurge

Dominic Foster
Dominic Foster

Yeah i didn't really like yaldabaoth or his weird status effects that did nothing

Angel Williams
Angel Williams

DDS has a good main crew but god awful settings and gameplay, mainline is much better all around

Camden Perry
Camden Perry

The scale was too small for him to be the actual demiurge

Tyler Martinez
Tyler Martinez

Yaldabaoth is the same thing as the Demiurge. All demons and personas are a manifestation of humanity's consciousness and perception. It's sort of a central theme of the entire series dude

Benjamin Gonzalez
Benjamin Gonzalez

That's pretty much every persona final boss.

Andrew Ramirez
Andrew Ramirez

YHVH's the creator of humans but draws his power from their belief, the Demiurge is an aspect of YHVH gone rogue. Yaldabaoth was just a manifestation of Tokyo's desire for order

Jackson Bell
Jackson Bell

bought apocalypse for these
dropped them and a car ran them over

Joseph Stewart
Joseph Stewart

Where is Joker Blanco?

Jordan Moore
Jordan Moore

not Junpei Rose

Zachary Perry
Zachary Perry

Chaos in IV:
Demons are stronger than humans. Therefore, humans must become subservient to them.

Chaos (TDE) in Nocturne:
DUDE! Ya know what would be the best way to free humanity from YHVH? By killing billions of humans! XD

Law in IV:
Humans cannot survive without God. Therefore, they must be protected by him and denied freedom.

Law (Reasons) in Nocturne:
Let's maintain the cycle of life and death, and create one of three possible civilisations. Let's also ensure that the player is locked out of 50% of the game's content by doing this and have the game call the player a coward for not wanting to commit human genocide.

I fail to see your point.

Caleb Ward
Caleb Ward

what version of smt 1 did you play?

Ayden Brown
Ayden Brown

The Demiurge is an aspect of YHVH according to some games in the series. Just like Lucifer is an aspect of Satan in some games where he's not in others. And just like we often have demons who are really the same demon but perceived slightly differently like Queen Mab vs Titania. You're making the mistake of applying one universe's logic to another's in a series where we know for a fact there are different universes with very different rules, even as far as some universes where YHVH ostensibly doesn't exist and other beings are the big rulers

Wyatt Martin
Wyatt Martin

kino
"God" hates humans being violent
Go all the way to the sun only for it to say "You must fight me" because it's SMT and you have to kill God
Schrodinger gives you a pat on the back and Fred fucks like six women and they all give birth to reincarnated asuras who are STILL wearing Junkyard outfits???
Final bullets that killed it.

The Junkyard is pretty great desu. I've played some of SMTIV now and the world isn't captivating at all.

Carson Morris
Carson Morris

Different Lucifer, you dingus. It was actually just a fragment of Satan, hence it being a bitch.

Also, even with his transformation from Doomguy to Moonguy, does Marine have any feats to place him and Aleph that high?

Justin Brooks
Justin Brooks

Wasn't the world already completely destroyed in nocturne? There wouldn't be any humans alive to kill. Also Yosuga is closer to chaos, and the TDE was added in after the game was released, so the others aren't losing content, tde just has more, smt iv handles that worse since you lose more by not going neutral and that wasn't from a re-release, I fail to see your point.

Nathaniel Nelson
Nathaniel Nelson

Aleph is too high. He only beat a lower-level YHVH, not the 9th dimensional one in Apocalypse.

Canopus is 5th dimensional so he should be in tier just under YHVH

This tier list is all kinds of fucked up

Elijah Gray
Elijah Gray

Better tier list here.
I feel like Doomguy should be moved up a bit due to DSJ.

Asher Jenkins
Asher Jenkins

Aleph canonically outdanced demon Michael Jackson, so probably.

Josiah Parker
Josiah Parker

What rubs me the wrong way about Nocturne is how the game tries to force you into doing TDE and insults you for picking any other route, despite the fact that TDE is edgy and retarded.

The Good Neutral ending is good too.

Camden Powell
Camden Powell

shiet

David Morgan
David Morgan

Does Joker go at the bottom?

David Cook
David Cook

Lucifer is implied to be the other multiverse Lucifers though when you defeat him in Apocalypse, since he says that he has been defeated yet again and that his squidward form was not enough this time

Hunter Morris
Hunter Morris

Akihiko Ultra Instinct

Joshua Smith
Joshua Smith

ONE MORE GOD REJECTED

Isaiah Gomez
Isaiah Gomez

mem aleph is stated to have given YHVH a really tough fight at the beginning of the universe so she's probably on the level of at least demon YHVH

Thomas Morgan
Thomas Morgan

Yeah, I'd say Joker and Nanashi go in the bottom two tiers.

Xavier Williams
Xavier Williams

Raidou and Serph on the same level.

That just doesn't feel right.

Brandon Gutierrez
Brandon Gutierrez

It was probably a single YHVH head like with SMT2 Aleph. The one in Apocalypse is massively above everyone else in the series besides the obvious ones like Stephen and the Axiom

Xavier King
Xavier King

YHVH's above the amala network according to Lucifer and Apocalypse also confirms the multiverse ruled by YHVH (maybe the amala network, maybe not) through Stephen and the logs, even in the universes where YHVH apparently doesn't exist, it's just implied that he doesn't give a fuck about them like when you fight Satan in DDS2 and Schrodinger says that he served a different God than Brahman

Brody Smith
Brody Smith

I actually like that quote from him a lot but it's obviously up to interpretation what it means. It could mean he's had different incarnations within SMT4's verse (which is a concept the SMT4 artbook touches on a little bit). Or he could be aware of the multiverse without being the exact same being across them. Either way, him saying his Squidward form sucks doesn't say anything about his Nocturne form or anything else

Ayden Martin
Ayden Martin

Serph needing a hug
when he becomes one with Sera and basically gets a soul hug 24/7

Oliver Fisher
Oliver Fisher

This doesn't make sense though, in SMT IVA he's a fragment of Satan whereas in 2 they exist independently.

Eli Jackson
Eli Jackson

Joker is an unhinged vigilante who sees the world as corrupt and see's absolutely nothing wrong with brainwashing people. He needs a hug so put him in the recommended tier

Ayden Diaz
Ayden Diaz

He's a fragment of Satan in the same way that Odin is a fragment of Dagda.

James Carter
James Carter

he's a fragment of the ultimate Satan in charge of the multiverse's YHVH, the Satan we saw in 2 was a servant of a single YHVH head like said. Also implied with the metatron hordes

Nathan Robinson
Nathan Robinson

Where in the name of God are pulling that from?

Landon Garcia
Landon Garcia

Demiqua is the strongest bottom bitch in SMT

Dominic Sanders
Dominic Sanders

Because Axiom.

Benjamin White
Benjamin White

Nanashi actually went through a lot of horrible shit, but at least he can get a good ending.

It'd be a different story if Pascal-tan stayed dead after she got vored.

Easton Brooks
Easton Brooks

I don't understand the gap between Door-kun and Door-chan. The audio dramas show she's empty underneath the smile.

Landon Turner
Landon Turner

Stop being silly. There isn't "Satan" and then "Mega Galaxy Satan". The Satan in 4A is just a Satan.

Jack Reyes
Jack Reyes

It'd be a different story if Pascal-tan stayed dead after she got vored.
Should've happened

Luke Ortiz
Luke Ortiz

Is the crossover DLC canon? If so, all the SMT protags exist in a unified multiverse according to Stephen and the YHVH you take out in SMTIV:A is an amalgamation of all the different universes's YHVHs seeing as the Axiom takes you there to fuck his shit up

Julian Foster
Julian Foster

nocturne
story
nocturne literally had no story whatsoever except for lore dump by lucifer

Caleb Edwards
Caleb Edwards

It's more correct to say that you play Nocturne for the atmosphere, not the story

Jacob Bell
Jacob Bell

Like someone else said, that could be interpreted as all of the YHVHs from each timeline in 4verse.

Lincoln Stewart
Lincoln Stewart

Satan and the Archangels are obviously from SMT2. The Archangels dialogue directly reference that. DDS also directly tells that it's possible for data to move across universes (Schrodinger comes to DDS and together with Seraph they travel to others afterwards). Demi-Fiend's data appearing in DDS1 is also an example (aside from being fanservice)

It's up in the air why or how data slips into the DDS universe but the amala cylinders all over Brahman's body are a good hint. In any case, Brahman is clearly the one who controls the data and humanity in the DDS verse, not YHVH or anyone else

Logan Ward
Logan Ward

nocturne literally had no story
Typical brainlet that needs to be fed, what next, bloodborne has no story too?

Logan Perry
Logan Perry

Yeah

Easton Martinez
Easton Martinez

Mem Aleph that high
Ell oh ell

Isaiah Scott
Isaiah Scott

Literally beat up YHVH and stole his lunch money
?

Liam Anderson
Liam Anderson

Yeah but also get's styled on by spess marine after all the other tedious gay suit he's had to do just to confront her

Jeremiah Diaz
Jeremiah Diaz

Snes

Blake Brooks
Blake Brooks

Oh god lol I just realized how fucked it is

The highest tiers (except the supreme two) are fucked enough, but Kagutsuchi is weaker than Meta and Beelz

Oh Jesus this list is shit

Daniel Robinson
Daniel Robinson

You have got to be massively retarded if you think Nocturne and Bloodborne don't have stories just because they don't have an assload of exposition and cinematics

Henry Lewis
Henry Lewis

That was Aleph as far my understanding goes not Mem-Aleph.

Ryder Watson
Ryder Watson

4baby
None of the games have /that/ much story going on mainline wise

Nathaniel Morales
Nathaniel Morales

This

And I'm pretty sure Demifiend needs many hugs since all this friends turned into douches.

Jacob Collins
Jacob Collins

Sera is a retarded cunt, and fusing with her is like sentencing yourself to an eternity of suffering.

Jordan Gomez
Jordan Gomez

And I'm pretty sure Demifiend needs many hugs since he had to play through 20 stages of Puzzle Boy.

fixed

Andrew Martinez
Andrew Martinez

wear Dagda pin on a normal hat
someone in class asks about my pin
"it's from a videogame"
what game user?
"uhhh Shin Megami Tensei 4: Apocalypse"
oh, okay
then they give me this disappointed look
mfw

Leo Russell
Leo Russell

You guys are severely underestimating marine.

Despite literally all logic and odds being against him he fucking beat Mem Aleph, a being that fucked up YHVH. It is completely illogical and improbable but he did it. This is SMT, power levels are all over the place.
counting SJ and DSJ as the same universe
I see them as different but similar universes, sort of like IV and IV:A.

Thomas Campbell
Thomas Campbell

those shoes

John Gomez
John Gomez

Abel higher than Bunny

Grayson Powell
Grayson Powell

fixed? maybe

Jayden Phillips
Jayden Phillips

How is Nanashi not YHVH tier?

Josiah Ross
Josiah Ross

caring about what some random normie thinks
wearing a fucking pin in the first place
being ashamed of your love for Dagda
Fucking neck yourself

Nolan Russell
Nolan Russell

Mainline Protagonist Design Ranking:

Doomguy > Hideto > SMTI The Hero > Concept Art Nanashi > Demi-fiend > Flynn > If... Protagonists >>>>>>>>>>> Nanashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the abomination that is the NINE characters.

Brandon Williams
Brandon Williams

you're right I should have killed him

Henry Foster
Henry Foster

Flynn is definitely the most underrated normalfag

Not half-demon
Not getting powers from an Irish god of life and death
Not strong from a supersuit
Not a reincarnation of a religious figure
Just a reincarnation of a Japanese dude with cool hair who sacrificed himself to save Tokyo in a previous life

Chase Torres
Chase Torres

tfw this retard made a 30 min video explaining his subjective rankings
I can't believe he actually expects people to watch his autistic ranting for half an hour.

Caleb Wood
Caleb Wood

Personas > Demons

David Wood
David Wood

Flynn is still a messiah sent by the axiom. Marine is the most normalfag, his demonica helped but it's not like wearing it made him invincible. Jimenez tells you the suit grows with the user, however that works.

Xavier Turner
Xavier Turner

You forgot Aleph

Nolan Diaz
Nolan Diaz

Where would Flynn and Nanashi go?
I'm guessing Flynn would be recommended and Nanashi would be too many

Jason Moore
Jason Moore

canopus
weaker than yhvh
demifiend
weaker than nanashi and abel

Owen Murphy
Owen Murphy

Demons > Atma Avatars > P1/2 Personas > P3-5 Personad

Jace Martin
Jace Martin

Aleph has ascended beyond any tier list

Aaron Jones
Aaron Jones

being this much of a normalfag

Michael Stewart
Michael Stewart

Flynn in his magic demon suit and advanced weaponry is more normal than the teenage boy running around with a dog, a knife, and a gun

Jace Wright
Jace Wright

beelzebub is way stronger than the booger

Andrew Parker
Andrew Parker

Messiah is just a title. Being a Messiah doesn't auto-make you awesome or else Nanashi wouldn't have gotten killed in the first 20 minutes

Cameron Martinez
Cameron Martinez

Oh shit, you're right, Nakajima too since I see MTI/II as partially mainline.

Doomguy > Hideto > SMTI The Hero > Concept Art Nanashi > Demi-fiend > Flynn > Aleph > Nakajima > If... Protagonists >>>>>>>>>>> Nanashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the abomination that is the NINE characters.

Brayden Rodriguez
Brayden Rodriguez

how the fuck is doomguy so strong
he's just a marine

Christopher Gonzalez
Christopher Gonzalez

raidou is way too high, should be on b

James Barnes
James Barnes

Flynn in his fashionable as fuck samurai outfit is less normalfag than a reincarnation of Adam

Xavier Roberts
Xavier Roberts

I didn't say that. The Hero is also the reincarnation of Adam though, that's why the heroine (Eve) and Lilith wanted him and Lilith wanted the heroine dead. While relatively just some guy hw has some importance.

Connor Robinson
Connor Robinson

We'll never get more Atma-style designs

fuck

Eli Cruz
Eli Cruz

Mem Aleph, along with the other mothers, defeated YHVH and Marine, despite all logic, beat Mem Aleph in a regular fight. He also beat Demiurge, an aspect of YHVH.

Adrian King
Adrian King

Despite literally all logic and odds being against him he fucking beat Mem Aleph, a being that fucked up YHVH. It is completely illogical and improbable but he did it. This is SMT, power levels are all over the place.
Honestly, a lot of power levels in regards to demon tamers are what demons they can cook up.

Evan Sullivan
Evan Sullivan

I feel the same. I love them but they would be weird in anything but DDS.

Kevin Perez
Kevin Perez

YHVH is supposed to be the highest tier of being.
Lol jk axiom
God dammit SMT.

Xavier Anderson
Xavier Anderson

The Axiom isn't really something the series dwells on at all and most of the info people spout about it comes from a few fags who edit the megamitensei wiki and their headcanon. 4:A was the only time it got exposition and it's not clear whether it's a sentient being or just a literal "Axiom" that has effect on the multiverse

David Garcia
David Garcia

Did you play SJ?

Joshua Lee
Joshua Lee

We'll see when the Axiom is the final boss of the Switch SMT and we'll find out what created the Axiom.

Michael Powell
Michael Powell

I want to FUCK Vayu

Logan Powell
Logan Powell

God I hope not. The fact you fight YHVH is already dumb but fighting the axiom wouls be even more retarded.

Julian Nguyen
Julian Nguyen

jenna pls go

Jaxson Murphy
Jaxson Murphy

charming
handsome
caring
absolutely no ulterior motives, only wants to help others
Why is Mastema the best character in all media?

Grayson Russell
Grayson Russell

I think DF should probably be in SS. He hits all over those two in Apoc. I hacked him into my Apoc save for some demon bro-op and he actually levels faster than fucking Nanashi on top of no-selling everything but gun.

Chase Harris
Chase Harris

I think most put him lower as although he defeated Lucufer he still more or less is his bottom bitch and serves him. As to if he actually could go fuck up the YHVH of his universe is unknown.

Jeremiah Evans
Jeremiah Evans

He's tied for the top with Aleph and Godslayer Nanashi, but only if you consider that thing about him beating the Great Will to be canon

Xavier Cruz
Xavier Cruz

those hands
he truly is our greatest ally

Jordan Myers
Jordan Myers

He never beat the Great Will though.

Jace Barnes
Jace Barnes

A lot of SMT fans make up a lot of head canon about their favorite characters

Anthony Turner
Anthony Turner

He never beat the Great Will though.
That's because no one has.

Elijah Barnes
Elijah Barnes

We are told he went off to fight the great will and that's all we know, he could have won or he could have lost, I doubt he won though because the smt multiverse still exists.

Connor Howard
Connor Howard

You guys seem to be forgetting that Mem Aleph didn't fight YHVH alone and they attacked him in a severely weakened state

Benjamin Stewart
Benjamin Stewart

Best Heroine?

pic related

Luke Jones
Luke Jones

Delete this, son of man.

Blake Morgan
Blake Morgan

Whose your demon bro Cred Forums?

SMT got me into German and Celtic mythology and Siegfried's stories are really cool to me. Wish he had more appearances though.

Owen Taylor
Owen Taylor

Name one (1[uno]) party in videogames that could take them.

Anthony Jackson
Anthony Jackson

You're forgetting
God Tier: Great Will
At the very top.

Benjamin Barnes
Benjamin Barnes

Nope, actually it's starting to shift the other way.
SJ is the best, with 3 after that

Luis Jackson
Luis Jackson

While true defeating all the mothers is still no small feat. He also defeated Demiurge who treated fucking Metatron like a ragdoll.

He's not Aleph tier, yes, but he is pretty fucking strong and could probably at least pose some threat to YHVH.

Zachary Brown
Zachary Brown

FemMc is pretty fucked up on the inside though.

Leo Wilson
Leo Wilson

She's pretty cool, probably my favorite mainline heroine. Too bad Aleph could never fuck her.

Overall I think Nemissa is my overall favorite, she just a fun personality.

Chase Thomas
Chase Thomas

Great Will is a meme. Half the time the term is used in the games it's obvious it's referring to YHVH. Wiki fags will have you think it's referring to the same thing as the Axiom in SMT4:A (Which is probably what the fag who made the image thinks). Nothing conclusive either way is said in the games and it's obvious the term isn't used consistently enough to argue about its power level on a tier list

Bentley Hughes
Bentley Hughes

oh shit

Caleb Williams
Caleb Williams

Golden Yu vs El Tio Junes

Jack Price
Jack Price

What about Flinn's friends

Mason Lewis
Mason Lewis

Ok Cred Forums riddle me this
Why the fuck the multi-hit enemies abilities exist?

Dominic Sullivan
Dominic Sullivan

How the hell's Law a bad idea in IV? Thanks to parallel universes and time dilation, you see just how fucking wrong everything goes if you don't actually follow Law's path for humanity.

They let humanity develop the modern world as is, only stepping in when the threat of the Expanse being opened would lead to a demon apocalypse. As it turns out, if they don't interfere, Infernal Tokyo happens, justifying taking actions to stop it.

Then, they make Mikado to be the new starting point for humanity, but people from Tokyo can still come through Naraku. They allow Akira to come through, because he was powerful and agreed to stop others from going through. This is one, single young kid with good intentions that happens to have demon knowledge. His introduction and three of the Archangels being sealed away so that they don't remove the influence leads to a society so fucked up and repressed that they can turn into demons at the drop of a hat and live shitty lives.

Pretty fucking clear if Infernal Tokyo happens with no interference and current Mikado happens from a saint like Akira being let in, they just need to fucking nuke Tokyo and be done with it to start over. That includes Flynn sure, but they can outright guarantee an afterlife, and all the angels even kill themselves so they won't influence humans afterwards.

Shit is the probably the most logical, best law endings in the series.

Jason Myers
Jason Myers

Gets his ass kicked so hard by YHVH off-screen that what's left of him is just dicking around the Network
Strongest

Ha, no.

Caleb Lopez
Caleb Lopez

Is that lilith in a suit?
Is that watch supposed to be a coiled snake?

Lol ukken saved

Nolan Lewis
Nolan Lewis

Have you never played SMT1?

Logan Howard
Logan Howard

go to sleep goro

Blake Russell
Blake Russell

White or bust

Isaac Butler
Isaac Butler

?????? If you are using the apocalypse dlc as a source than that isn't canon since every hero there comes from a timeline where they lost so it isn't canon, bad logic.

Brandon Cruz
Brandon Cruz

Are you 12? You type like someone from 2008.

Brayden Young
Brayden Young

Because your forced to worship a god who would destroy the land your in if the smallest thing annoys him. The world isn't even that good since your forced into a cattle system that makes it so only people with higher power gets things and even when that is put aside you still have to deal with the fact your going to be replaced in the near future with humans who only pray to the god that fucked you over.

Andrew Davis
Andrew Davis

DDS, bruh.

Bentley Garcia
Bentley Garcia

Nothing in DDS says he lost and the fact the he is still alive and super powerful means he probably didn't.

Lucas Jones
Lucas Jones

You guys are looking at it as if it is a fully canon appearance. It literally is just a random bonus fight.

Easton Gomez
Easton Gomez

game series where every ending is canon
including endings that were not in the game in the first place
but there's absolutely no way that bad endings are canon

Christian Garcia
Christian Garcia

Who said you could leave the expanse?

Carson Davis
Carson Davis

normies
Fuck you reddit

Ian Sullivan
Ian Sullivan

Honestly, seeing this guy stand up was legitimately my biggest "oh fuck" moment in the entire franchise.

Samuel Cruz
Samuel Cruz

Exactly what parts of the story didnt you like? Overall i really like the story in dds (Also I recommend you quantum devil saga,which is pretty much dds original story)

Mason Murphy
Mason Murphy

Not even stairs can stop him now

Charles Miller
Charles Miller

I'd share mine with you user, haven't even opened them.

Lucas Barnes
Lucas Barnes

Steven stands up.
He's wielding fucking singularities

Nathan Carter
Nathan Carter

Nope, seeing how he runs away of Raidou like a bitch. Raidou is the strongest one.

Tyler Sullivan
Tyler Sullivan

In the human world? Sure.
In the Expanse? That'd be Tamaki.

Isaac Rodriguez
Isaac Rodriguez

I honestly wonder how they are going to top the Stephen fight in V. Atlus blew their load too early.

Nathaniel Cook
Nathaniel Cook

By actually letting those protags be recruitable and not just in one dlc mission

Jackson Gomez
Jackson Gomez

The same Tamaki that lost to a persona user?

Julian Williams
Julian Williams

Key word: Expanse. She's a literal godslayer on that side but human in meatspace.

Lincoln Allen
Lincoln Allen

The SMTV protag against the faggots Persona protags

Brayden Gray
Brayden Gray

you have to fight against them instead of with them

Joseph Miller
Joseph Miller

Nakajima

Hudson Lopez
Hudson Lopez

Kaneko and Cozy.

Grayson Ross
Grayson Ross

By fighting against Yu Narukami

Camden Gomez
Camden Gomez

Secret boss fight against Nanashi-YHVH.

Hudson Cooper
Hudson Cooper

Is the same composer from SMT4 and 4A making the music for SMTV? The ost is one of the best i have hear in a lot of SMT games

Sebastian Baker
Sebastian Baker

His tattooed bitch ass couldn't even beat Lucy, what do you think?

Oliver Stewart
Oliver Stewart

Ye

Jason Watson
Jason Watson

He can still solo'd all the persona 4 main cast.

Daniel Hill
Daniel Hill

Not Nanashi, his crew, and Dagda-II

Fuck Anarchy, Breakfast Club was the better ending.

Caleb Davis
Caleb Davis

I love the edits this fight and the YHVH brought us though.

Jaxson Martin
Jaxson Martin

I don't think we know the composer or main artist yet.

David Edwards
David Edwards

Don't underestimate the power of friendship.

Kayden Perez
Kayden Perez

Friendship means jack shit when you have people who slaughter actual gods on a daily basis.

Mason Reed
Mason Reed

Friendship

Dylan Roberts
Dylan Roberts

lad he already made the music for the trailer

Jeremiah Miller
Jeremiah Miller

implying he can beat the pussy slayer

Jace Scott
Jace Scott

butthurt potato god

Sebastian Powell
Sebastian Powell

Is the first paragraph an actual quote? I'm trying to remember

Christian Clark
Christian Clark

While its a cool concept those fights always go to try to burst one guy down and then just turtle away your victory.

Maybe you need to kill them all in one turn?

Nolan Moore
Nolan Moore

JUST FUCKING KILL YOUR FRIENDS BOYO!!

William Carter
William Carter

Shit, I didn't know that. I fully welcome him. I love Meguro but if IV had one truly great aspect it was music. I don't know how he did it but he fucking made maybe the best soundtrack in gaming.

Daniel King
Daniel King

Sort of

Jonathan Lee
Jonathan Lee

He was right though, at least about the part about striving to be better as an individual

Thomas Gomez
Thomas Gomez

Yep, just beat the game last week. Dagda is genuinely THAT edgy.

It is also stupid as in his actual lore that is nothing like Dagda. Dagda is actually described in his stories as sort of like a hip partying grandpa who gets drunk and tries to fuck as many goddesses as possible.

Parker Clark
Parker Clark

He spent too much time in hell away from observation and saw his kid become a christslut from what the artbook apparently says

Isaiah Gonzalez
Isaiah Gonzalez

He may be a secondary character but he is top tier anons.

Embrace Law

Matthew Reyes
Matthew Reyes

Law

Aiden Green
Aiden Green

Ever trusting angels

Did Strange Journey and SMT II teach you nothing?

Sebastian Barnes
Sebastian Barnes

and saw his kid become a christslut from what the artbook
Who was that

Owen Gonzalez
Owen Gonzalez

ywn have someone as pure and trustworthy as Jon as your bro

Jose Cruz
Jose Cruz

Brigid, whos an actual demon you can get in the game.

Hunter Long
Hunter Long

uhhhh god but the real one

Julian Cooper
Julian Cooper

Atlus blew their load too early.
Not really since Stephen let them win since all he needed, simply put that is, was the energy of battle to bring that nerd back. He was not after an actual all out bought ,from his end at least, so if anything what was shown was just a teas and more so as way to shut up anyone ever wondering how a cripple man has been able to keep himself at bay from both the likes of YHVH and the Great will.

Jace Robinson
Jace Robinson

Also apparently the new final boss for the 3ds remake is Shekinah, who's on the same tier as YHVH.

Jonathan Wilson
Jonathan Wilson

Zombie Loli and Fake Loli

Ryder Carter
Ryder Carter

lusting after angels
Thats just a really tsundere chaos demon user. Pay them no mind
Eternal salvation, paradise on death, a community of love and trust and serenity. Not all Law routes are good but Law is good.
You have to strive to be him user. He is like Junpei, you have to look up to them and strive to be like em.

Parker Bennett
Parker Bennett

Oh, forgot my pic, here anons.

Cooper Moore
Cooper Moore

user, the only good Law route is Devil Survivor. Every other one is either priming your ass for YHVH's dick or burning society to the ground because you're afraid of human choice.

Isaiah Young
Isaiah Young

Reminder he didn't even fight seriously despite being against four of the most powerful protags in entire the series. Stephen is fucking OP.

Christian Morris
Christian Morris

Just beat Persona 3, first game of the Megami Tensei series. Besides moving on with Persona what else should I try? P3 left an amazing impression, want to try more.

Dominic Gray
Dominic Gray

To be fair I'd be pissed too if YHVH cucked me as hard as he did Dagda. A lot of people forget that Chaos is really only held together because YHVH realy is just that big of a cunt in SMT.

Brody Brown
Brody Brown

Megaten 2 guy
What did that fag do to deserve being that high?

Tyler Hall
Tyler Hall

Killed god.

Jackson Parker
Jackson Parker

Nice try with the bait. But to actually answer your question, if you're looking for more P3, P4's your next step - it's just less grimdark. P5's actually a decent bridge between Persona and the mainline, so after that I'd go P5 and use that to jump into mainline. Nocturne, 4, and Strange Journey are good places to start there.

Daniel Murphy
Daniel Murphy

not a YHVH OP
this isn't how you start an SMT thread

Leo Mitchell
Leo Mitchell

First guy to slay YHVH.

Charles Murphy
Charles Murphy

I honestly suggest Nocturne. Persona 3-5 are pretty different from other games in the series but I think you may like the other games. P4 and P5 are more light hearted with more "power of friendship" kind of stuff and mainline/other spinoffs are typically more dark with heavier themes.
In MTII he literally just straight up kills god. Also he has a cool cyborg arm.

Elijah Davis
Elijah Davis

Killed YHVH and got a bitchin' robot arm.

Ayden Bennett
Ayden Bennett

not even a special edition
REEEEEE

David Gutierrez
David Gutierrez

The fact you fight YHVH is already dumb
how so? Honestly how so? YHVH is an infinite being spread infinitely thin. Then add to that every single SMT protag is imbued with a bit of the great wills power. How is it dumb then that whenever going up against YHVH whatever protag is only going up against a tiny ass portion of its full power.
Really how is that dumb exactly?

Lucas Garcia
Lucas Garcia

What choice?

The choice of literaly letting Tokyo, a demon infested hellhole stay as is? The choice to try and let humans, not demigods like you, humans, with families, friends, to somehow try and deal with a demonic infestation, when they couldnt before? The choice of getting assraped by demons? The choice to live underground forever, barely surviving, never thriving, constantly trying to scrape by and living forever in fear of a demon raid to come and murderfuck you?

What choice. What future does choice give you user. What makes you think this is better for the people? What makes you think Law doesnt end with the common man and woman happy, fulfiled, at peace and among peacefull individuals?

Law has unity, prosperity, calm. It has guaranteed blessing of record scratch, actual heaven when you die, actual stability and no demon infested hellhole cities. People flourish, people thrive. They dont survive, they live.

Its like new vegas. No ending is good but the one where society begins to trully re-establish itself and reform, not just the status quo worsening or staying as is.

Thomas Hill
Thomas Hill

Outside of Steven, it has to be Nanashi's faggot ass. Demifiend dies like a bitch in 4A.

Joseph Bell
Joseph Bell

supectible to charm

Michael Jenkins
Michael Jenkins

MT2 Protag
That reminds me, that game was pretty retarded sometimes
Forced to insult and betray your best friend(Which gets him turned into a demon, betrayed again, and killed) just because an old man wants a girl to give him a massage

William Rodriguez
William Rodriguez

Dlc doesn't make much sense. Otherwise hero would be the strongest protagonist by far.

Josiah Lee
Josiah Lee

implying he isn't
Fucking crushes rocks with his bare hands.

Tyler Diaz
Tyler Diaz

Personally, and this is coming from someone who is agnostic, that YHVH is presented as too much of a villain in SMT. Because he is referred to as his Hebrew name he is obviously more based on lore with Judaism. The thing is that in Judaism YHVH is presented as more of a mysterious figure. Being this ultimate ruler and such he has quite a hand in the bad aspects of the world, but also in the good. I think he should be more "mysterious" in his intentions and the series just randomly vilifying him seems ignorant.

Overall I'm not a fan of the series' treatment of YHVH, in any interpretation.

Nicholas Morris
Nicholas Morris

Betatron, reveal thyself and remove thyself.

David Brown
David Brown

Implying Nakajima is ever returning in any form but a mention or cameo
He's not that strong anyway

Gavin Adams
Gavin Adams

Muhammad

Charles Peterson
Charles Peterson

YHVH is a complete dick in Judaism

Andrew Perry
Andrew Perry

A neet being as strong as demi is way too silly. All hero did before the dlc was download malware and run errands for his mother.

Lucas Jenkins
Lucas Jenkins

it's already confirmed to be Kozuka

Hudson Turner
Hudson Turner

Hero wasn't a NEET, what are you talking about? Also he has at least some magical bullshit on his side since he's the reincarnation of Adam.

Dylan Martin
Dylan Martin

no counterpoint
Even filth can be reformed user. In due time, you will apreciate the side of Law you realize you always wanted.

The love. The care. The joy. The sincerety.

The waifu you love and that will never cheat on you. The feeling of complete peace with the world and your fellow men. The satisfaction of a work well done. The connection to divinity.

In due time, son of man.

Benjamin Bell
Benjamin Bell

But the proof is in the rocks crushed. The irony considering his death.
Plus was he a neet? The cafe in 1 had some school girl who knew him

Levi Carter
Levi Carter

Sort of, he is pretty dickish at times sure but I wouldn't say presenting him as a villain is appropriate.

I guess SMTIV:A did it worse then SMTII though since I feel like the only reason you even fight him in that game is because it's "cool" and whoever made Iv and IV:A really wanted refrences every fucking minute to prior games.

Adrian Thomas
Adrian Thomas

And then he was crushed by a rock and died, what a powerhouse.

Jose Peterson
Jose Peterson

No, he was a normalfag. Law hero was presumably a chad since he had a gf and chaos hero was essentially the japanese equivalent to a school shooter.

Nathaniel Howard
Nathaniel Howard

Hero wasn't a NEET
Prove it.
Being the reincarnation of Adam is actually a handicap. His buddies were casting spells and shit when all he could do was swing a sword.

Owen Peterson
Owen Peterson

Weakness to earth element :^)

Kevin Diaz
Kevin Diaz

You had to take him out in Apoc because if you didn't, more groups like the Divine Powers were going to happen because YHVH didn't want to share his fucking sandbox.

Brody Bailey
Brody Bailey

If that's how he died it's a shame he wasn't the reincarnation of Cain or Abel

Joshua Adams
Joshua Adams

Random npcs knew him and he left his house to do random errands. At most he seems like a slightly more computer literate guy.
implying anything other then ailment bullets and zio is used in SMTI
Do you even broken dungeon crawling?

Jacob Ortiz
Jacob Ortiz

Do NOT play this on a blind stream.
It was probably the most humiliating time of my life. I finished it, but wow... It was rough.

Nathaniel Williams
Nathaniel Williams

Pssst. This might shock you but Zio is a spell. That makes hero weaker than people who can use spells and guns.
Plus, there's that crazy bitch following you atiubd/trying to kill you.
Being Adam is a fucking handicap.

Austin Murphy
Austin Murphy

He genocided children, I'm pretty sure that's villainous

Joshua Jones
Joshua Jones

How much different SMT 2 would had been with him alive.

Brody Jackson
Brody Jackson

true demon ending is just lets kill all humans lmao
How the fuck do you manage to fuck the 5 minutes of lore nocturne has, humanity was already dead, the manikins where basically ghosts that couldnt do shit and were gonna die one way or another
In the maze the demons all tell demi that lucifer plan is to kill yhvh to restore some balance because the great will is busy having 7D sex with stephen and wont take care of his shitty abomination

Jordan Campbell
Jordan Campbell

So why is YHVH always portrayed above Brahmin or Kagutsuchi? They're basically the strongest entities in their respective amala universes.

Connor Evans
Connor Evans

swing flaming fire sword
Worth it

Nolan Gonzalez
Nolan Gonzalez

FUN Fact: within the code of Nocture there are 30, FUCKING THIRTY, more levels for the puzzle boy mingame.

Imagine having to do 50 levels of that bullshit.

Ian Lopez
Ian Lopez

Is puzzle boy really that hard

Anthony Lee
Anthony Lee

Is there a way to enable them? I actually loved puzzle boy and its theme.

Landon King
Landon King

youtube.com/watch?v=IckRhKXfWxo

Robert Nguyen
Robert Nguyen

At least the looks cool while the heroine does all the hard lifting early/midgame.
Still better than doomguy i guess.

Brody Garcia
Brody Garcia

Hero's lucky he's in a world where he doesn't need to lift. Wurld of nerve bullets.

Jayden Fisher
Jayden Fisher

The thing with this though is that for all intents and purposes YHVH is a false god. The great will is the closest thing to god really more so than YHVH himself. YHVH has always played all sides of the Law vs Chaos against one another since the never ending conflict just makes him ever stronger. YHVHs intentions are actually still kind of a mystery since we know what he is doing but not for what purpose. SMTs YHVH is just doing shit for the sake of power but we still do not really know as to what he wants to do with that.
So if anything the great will is actually more akin to the biblical god than YHVH who just had such an innately mad awesome gossip game that through that alone he has managed to become one of the strongest being. You seem to be taking things at such a face value that you seem to miss the subtext. SMTs YHVH is only meant to be mistaken as god but is not god really no more no less.

Juan Davis
Juan Davis

not maxing out str and vit

Cameron Lopez
Cameron Lopez

The puzzles can really wrack your brain if you attempt it without a guide.
Just takes a lot of patience.
Just, do it alone. You will feel very, very stupid.

Oliver Cook
Oliver Cook

Only if you are dumb.

Kevin Kelly
Kevin Kelly

no shaggy blanco
doomguy stronger than Flynn and Nanashi
Demifiend not SSS rank at least
nanashi's friend not being at D tier at best

Gabriel Thomas
Gabriel Thomas

Damn, I must be dumb.

Owen Gonzalez
Owen Gonzalez

I think they can be enabled through debug mode on an emulator. Look up Nocturne's page on tcrf, they have more info on it.
Stage 8 was when I called quits, I couldn't do it.

Eli Turner
Eli Turner

maxing out str and vit instead of int and vit

Eli Thomas
Eli Thomas

Yes actually. It isn't crazy difficult but the last few levels really do require you to play 4D chess.

Brandon Wright
Brandon Wright

Striving to be like Stupei or Jonathan

Jason Ramirez
Jason Ramirez

Chaos in IV:
Demons are stronger than humans. Therefore, humans must become subservient to them.
That's not what Chaos in SMT IV is. Lucifer doesn't want humans to serve demons. He wants the world between demons and humans to be severed in Mikado and give freedom to its inhabitants in the most brutal way.

Chaos (TDE) in Nocturne:
DUDE! Ya know what would be the best way to free humanity from YHVH? By killing billions of humans! XD

Are you retarded or lying? There is no killing humans because they're already dead in the game. The game is post apocalyptic.

Law in IV:
Humans cannot survive without God. Therefore, they must be protected by him and denied freedom.
No it's: "brainwash everyone and turn them into mindless zombies". Also the angels are the ones who rule, rebelling against the Lord in SMT IV.

Law (Reasons) in Nocturne:
Let's maintain the cycle of life and death, and create one of three possible civilisations. Let's also ensure that the player is locked out of 50% of the game's content by doing this and have the game call the player a coward for not wanting to commit human genocide.
There are multiple Law endings in Nocturne. There is the Stillness ending and there's the "everyone gets their own world" ending. Those are all Law. Again, humanity is already dead. There's also nothing about civilizations.

You haven't played any of those games.

Ayden Johnson
Ayden Johnson

He's an idiot who hasn't played the game. That's why he doesn't know the lore which is easy to comprehend.

David Thomas
David Thomas

Was it ever explained who was the kid that fucked over the bussinesman so hard he reincarnated as dagda 0.5?

Cameron Ross
Cameron Ross

he wants to be Hoyboy

Connor Murphy
Connor Murphy

I actually loved puzzle boy
Have I got a game for you then.

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