Myths busted: Myth 1: systemd is not UNIX. False. The design of systemd as a suite of integrated tools that each have their individual purposes but when used together are more than just the sum of the parts. SystemD exemplifies the UNIX idea of "everything is a file” . all services are exposed at runtime in a kernel file system, cgroupfs.
Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up is irrelevant for servers. Professional sysadmins are actually keen on reduced downtimes during maintenance windows. Think about it.
Myth 3: systemd is incompatible with shell scripts. Complete FUD. systems is fully compatible with shell scripts.
Myth 4: systemd is monolithic 69 individual binaries. These binaries all serve different tasks, and are neatly separated.
Also they don't run as PID1 like many microsoft shills falsely spread as part of their Anti-Linux, Anti-FOSS campaign.
Carson Hill
thanks for your positive contribution
Evan Lee
It's supposed to be a "system and service manager for Linux". That's what those other 68 binaries are for.
Gavin Foster
...
Isaac Powell
Linux is not POSIX certified
Jack Walker
or POSIX compliant.
Evan Myers
Fuck off NSA shill
James Hall
but what runs in PID 1 is easily DoSable by incorrectly sanitized strings :^) >parsing input in PID 1 >2016 choose one
Isaac Mitchell
so can you name one good reason why everything should be merged into systemd ? poettering isn't actually known for producing quality software.
Jonathan Barnes
>Myth 1: systemd is not UNIX.
If 70% of the Linux community tells you, you are not doing it right, you are probably not doing it right.
>Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up is irrelevant for servers.
SystemD has some good ideas but does them wrong.
>Myth 4: systemd is monolithic
I don't think you understood the word "monolithic". If I create 1000 files that are all dependent on each other it's absolutely monolithic. It's not about the numbers of files, it's about seperation of concerns.
Grayson Perry
>69 binaries But why? OpenRC much faster and only one binary.
Logan Campbell
>faster Honestly, no
Dylan Lewis
>OpenRC Not even an init system lmao.
Gavin Rivera
If you don't want to use those other binaries, then don't use them. It's not hard.
Jayden Perez
5 seconds boot from HDD 7200rpm Init System, best of the best But systemd extremely FAT. Pic related.
Nicholas Powell
>all of which are neatly separated retarded faggot
millennial failgrammers need to die
Noah Wilson
>Can't post a screenshot lel
And that's not really faster. 2-3 seconds to my desktop. But you don't even use Linux do you
William Gray
This is framebuffer. I do. Your desktop boots from SSD I think, post your boot time here.
Tyler Hughes
>screenshot of a tty Yo is this person fucking retarded?
Isaac Baker
There is framebuffer screenshoot utility, but screenshoots ugly.
Caleb Reyes
Here's one of many reasons. You should not have to understand a scripting language to do something simple like start a process at boot.
Systemd made that much easier and in the process made the barrier of entry to Linux in general lower which is great, unless of course you an elitist neckbeard on Cred Forums.
Connor Jenkins
And I can't crop it in framebuffer, Full HD display.
Nathaniel Cook
>Init System, best of the best What? Systemd replaces /sbin/init OpenRC does not, it replaces /sbin/rc OpenRC is not an init system, it is a service manager that uses an external init system.
You still have to learn systemdicks' "simpler" abstraction, you dumb asshole. Any non-neckbeard is going to nope.txt out either way, they won't see the difference.
Grayson Thomas
Where are the other 68 PID1 binaries that come with systemd, that only shows systemd binary which is a bad example because the systemd (init) code is less LoC than sysvinit.
Elijah Davis
I don't think you understand how systemd works. I suggest you read up on how it's binaries interface with each other. protip: it isn't monolithic.
In regerence to the "70%" of the Linux communuty saying "it's wrong". May I remind you that systemd is now in place on 100% of major distributions. Are all of the distro maintainers wrong? and a bunch of neckbeareds right?
I know who my moneys on.
SysV is a kludgy mess. systemd is the future.
You my friend, need to either embrace these facts or get on and build an alternative, but I suspect as with most other neckbeards you are intellectually incapable of doing so.
Josiah Moore
You said systemd it's 69 separate binaries, which one is init system and how to get it without 68 pieces of shit? IBF: No fucking way. SystemD is not Unix-way, just like Xorg, which is deprecated.
Adam Harris
>systemd is not UNIX. Why would Linux want to emulate a dead standard?
Chase Brown
>hating systemd Cred Forums has only gotten worse since 2014
people are still posting the old systemd, arch memes but threads about SJW shenanigans on github are instantly deleted.
Benjamin Ortiz
You seem retarded, I'm not going to bother replying to you from here on out.
Jeremiah Roberts
only 2-3 kids are left to hate systemd these days
Camden Phillips
see my previous reply you retard. clue: init scripts.
Jack Butler
Why are all you faggots feeding the incredibly obvious cancer shill thread?
Justin Edwards
Sounds like a cool kid.
Thomas Price
/thread
Brandon Watson
Unix-way says: Do one thing and do it well.
Ethan Price
>SJW what do you mean? "SJW shenanigans on github "
Xavier Smith
Where's the nearest store to find that tinfoil?
Parker Torres
Yeah, I kinda want my browser to view photos and play videos
Brayden Cruz
for the same reason that you did. now wind your neck in please neckbeard. the adults are talking :)
John Thomas
Have you ever actually tried Alpine? It's really good.
Camden Robinson
It's alpha dogshit and no one uses it; not even you
Charles Evans
I'll just leave this here then. Have fun with your shitpile, lennart!
Strange, many of them are suggesting distros with Linux or X-org or firefox. They add up to millions of lines of code. I can't audit them. Aren't they NSA botnet?
Daniel Peterson
GTFO shill, we all know you're not just pretending to be retarded.
Blake Morris
Confirmed for crackpot conspiracy theorist.
Is there anyone out there bitching about systemd who isn't a complete moron?
Julian Foster
>Here's one of many reasons. You should not have to understand a scripting language to do something simple like start a process at boot. Stop pretending sysVinit is the only init system around
Adam Cox
No not really? What's so bad about systemd?
And please don't post that tinfoil link, I've read it all and they are debunked a long time ago. I want YOUR argument?
Carson Morales
>pretending to want to know why it's so bad so you can just ignore any reason given and shill some more Just kill yourself already Lennart. Nobody likes you.
James Jones
What's so wrong with having 10mb of unused binaries on your computer? If you don't like those other binaries, leave them alone. Otherwise, you can always write you own package that doesn't pull in those other binaries like the official package.
Connor Diaz
I'm using it right now on two computers. What problems have you had with it?
Only issues I've had are with some packages from github being failed by musl.
Logan Lopez
Calling me Lennart won't help you with anything.
As an end-user, I really don't any strong arguments posted anywhere except from debunked bull crap
Post screenshot
Hunter Garcia
he has no logical argument. none of these anti systemd crackpots do.
Lucas Martinez
how is that even related to what i've asked ?
Brandon Ortiz
>I really don't any pajeet pls
Dylan Reed
Start with failure in compiling broadcom-wl wireless driver and then we can talk about AMDGPU
Aiden Martin
An init system should do one thing only: Depending on a specific configuration, start a number of services - some of them as daemons. That's all.
Systemd sucks because it tries to do and be more than that.
Alexander Martin
>Reduced to Strawman You are too weak
Anyone else?
Nathaniel Murphy
Open BSD
Linux is a joke.
Julian Long
Gentoo obviously.
Noah James
this is more then likely user error
Carson Turner
OpenBSD has FBI backdoors. Also it has no software
Carson Murphy
so you like having a browser with a half assed media player or image viewer instead of having the browser just use your default media player and image viewer ?
i'd rather use a media player developed by people only having a media player in mind.
Hunter Green
You are one of those people who would use an email client instead of a web browser, a Cred Forums app instead of a web browser, a download manager instead of a web browser, external video player instead of a web browser, external photo viewer instead of a web browser, external music player instead of a web browser
Jose Lee
You've already had plenty of solid arguments given to you. Some of which are quite technical. You have chosen to dismiss them all as "debunked bull crap" and yet still claim that you want to know why systemd is so bad in good faith. Just kill yourself already.
John Rogers
I use OpenRC. Why on earth would I use systemd?
Levi Smith
Tons of software
Angel Turner
see >Some of which are quite technical None*
>No qBittorrent
Kayden Stewart
Also, how do we make systemd acceptable? Let's enter the bargaining stage.
Blake Butler
You asked me for a reason, i gave you one which you have now completely ignored. This is Typical neckbeard Cred Forums troll behavior.
Have fun with your kludgy init scripts. The professionals are using systemd
Christopher Roberts
let me guess, emacs user ?
Alexander Morales
>He uses external photo viewer and media player because his browser is so shit
Which one? W3m? lynx?
Jason Carter
He not a retarded faggot, just it is.
Samuel Edwards
that's not a reason why everything should be _merged into systemd_
Kevin Clark
When it is broken, burning, and nuked from orbit, never to be spoken about or used again. Only then will it be acceptable.
Zachary Perry
See, some people don't use broken software unlike you
Isaiah Jenkins
i'm not even sure anymore if you are trolling or serious... Cred Forums is a sad place
Caleb Cox
Join the NSA/RedHat katamari, user! It's fun! No bugs or issues at all! :^)
Eli Sanchez
No I actually want to know what unix-browser do you use?
Connor Clark
No, I'm one of those people who use the right tool for the right job.
You sound more like the sort of person who tries to saw a log with a hammer.
Dylan Hill
>use browser as: >image viewer >video player >audio player >youtube client >email client >irc client >linux documentation Retard.
Elijah Sanchez
Lennart says lots of shit in his article on debunking systemd "myths."
>systemd is incompatible with shell scripts That is true. It is incompatible with every shell script written to be compatible with multiple init systems. Shell scripts for systemd must be written specifically for it,
>systemd is monolithic That isn't myth. It is true. systemd is monolithic as most of those binaries depend on each other to function. You even wrote: >systemd as a suite of integrated tools It is though modular regardless of what some say but it isn't because of what options you have on compile time. (As Lennart article says.) Modularity and monolithic aren't mutually exclusive.
>If 70% of the Linux community tells you, you are not doing it right 70% of the Linux community doesn't know what an init system is and doesn't care to learn. Except if you mean 70% of the Gentoo users. Then yes neckbeards seem not to like systemd.
Charles Lee
Yep. Some people don't use broken software. For everyone else, there's systemd. :^)
Bentley Wood
Well I'm not against that idea. But, to be honest, if there's one thing I don't like about the linux systems I set up is that every program has small syntactic differences.
Things like cron and starting services. You write crontab -e and then you get kicked into vi to edit a file. It's not outright bad or even bad, it's just different from how 90% of programs do their adding/removal of arbitrary entries.
I'd like for there to be some sort of common way to do this. Perhaps inadvertently, systemd solves this.
Now keep in mind, I don't like systemd and I use OpenRC.
Leo Bell
spreading your aids around in a bunch of random c files =/= "modular"
Brandon Scott
Yes, my browser does all that so I don't have to pass media to VLC or Viewnior or anything...
I am one of the person that likes jack of all trades Swiss knives. Pretty handy
Nolan Rogers
HIDE SHITSTEMD THREADS
IGNORE SHITSTEMD THREADS
DO NOT REPLY TO SHITSTEMD SHILLPOSTERS
Dylan Jones
You are the one who said systemd is acceptable when it is broken...
Do you have autism?
Jaxon Morris
Install Gentoo. In the first place, it's the only distro that is rock solid, had metric fuckloads of packages, and doesn't become unstable as soon as you install a single more recent package. The compile time issues are greatly overrated, too: I'm using it on my 7 years old low-end laptop.
Parker Moore
then get the fuck off of Cred Forums you idiot reddit is more your pace
your system already has a photo viewer and video player; use those
Joshua Howard
No, I have a job and my browser shows photos in the web as well.
What unix-browser do you use? Care to post a screenshot?
Eli Young
>graphical bittorrent client for what purpose?
Charles Smith
no.
Ayden Williams
>No I actually want to know what unix-browser do you use? you got me there, they are all shit (uzbl had some potential but i guess it's almost dead ?) i use firefox but with external tools for watching videos or reading pdfs, etc. and links2 together with surfraw and some other scripts
Jace Torres
systemd will only be in an acceptable state (as in, a state of existence that can be tolerated) when it has been nuked from orbit and will never be used by anyone ever again. Which part of that was unclear?
Jaxson King
The thing which I find striking in this debate that proponents of systemd seem to be well equipped with well reasoned, logical technology based arguments. To put it bluntly they all sound like professionals.
And on the other hand, the people trying to shill and discredit systemd lack logic and ultimately resort to crackpot conspiracy theories and FUD.
Pic related.
Luke Baker
>2016 >systemd hate thread
Looks like Microsoft finally caught wind of systemd and has fired up PajeetNet.
Chase Wilson
Nice try shlomo. Everyone knows M$ created systemd to windowsize linux. There's a reason they celebrated the release of debian 8.
Colton Thompson
obvious samefag shilling is obvious, try harder
Jordan Gutierrez
But which one? There's jpegviewer for jpeg and pngviewer for png files?
Is this a joke? What's wrong with GUI?
No, you clearly said it is acceptable when it is broken so much so no one talks about it
Gavin Gonzalez
Hello pajeet.
Landon Gray
Firefox, it uses external tools for this job.
Jacob Long
Firefox is not unix, it can and does show photos from the web
>Using bittorrent >not using torrentctl client embedded in systemd
Henry Wilson
The original phrasing I used was >never to be spoken about or used again >or used again Do you have trouble reading basic english, user?
Michael Powell
>There's jpegviewer for jpeg and pngviewer for png files? there are libraries providing these functions (yes, theres one for png, one for jpeg, etc) and tools (image viewers) that use those libraries.
Bentley Edwards
I use Firefox because the broken state of the web (especially this fucking jew site) requires javascript even though imageboards can and do function with simple forms
it still doesn't change the fact that browsers should leverage extant system software instead of reinventing the wheel
to that end, I watch all web media in mpv, not laggy html5 players
before retarded webdevs put javascript in fucking everything I was able to browse the web successfully with nothing more than w3m. It was my main browser for months. Didn't stop me from enjoying videos or viewing images or replying to threads
Kevin Wood
>GUI >use mouse in ttorent client >can't run it in background
Owen Ross
But uses external library for it. Unix-way.
Mason Hill
I like systemd because it is easy to use and seems pretty fast. fight me.
Ayden Morales
libtorrent + rtorrent
it's still gui (ncurses) but runs in a terminal emulator (easily detached sessions) and doesn't require cancer like GTK or QT
I'm not one of those weirdos who operates exclusively from a tty and I use X, but there's literally no excuse for using massive graphical libraries for most things. I'm proud to say there's no GTK/QT on my machine
Gabriel Baker
you do know that the only job your distros maintainer has is to ensure that that doesn't happen ?
Jayden Wright
A mail client, Cred Forums, a download manager, a video player, a photo viewer and a music player implemented in a web browser are programs as well.
That you're seeing a front-end with HTML/JavaScript doesn't change that the back-end is written in languages as PHP/Python/Ruby/etc or even C/C++.
Usage of web browser for everything can be compared to usage of terminals when mainframes were still dominant.
Asher Gonzalez
>intentionally breaks his browser >"ugh webdevs ;_;"
John Barnes
Go to school reddit-kid. if ffmpeg doesn't work, browser does work
Tyler Lewis
It's literally harder to use than openrc and it's slower.
Ethan Hall
>it's still gui (ncurses) no it's not it's TUI - Text User Interface
Levi Ortiz
>your original phrasing is >broken >nuked Don't even try to backpedal, user
Yes but I don't want one software to view those formats, that's not unix
qBittorrent runs in background once you added the torrent, But what's wrong with GUI?
It uses library, obviously but the software is also showing different file formats - that can't be unix >Do one thing (view jpeg OR png files) and do it good
Oliver Sanchez
>harder for you maybe
>slower nah
Andrew Howard
Ah, so you DO have trouble with basic english.
Luis Scott
>neatly separated Then try replacing just one. Protip: you can't. The second you do systemd will update and since your binary relied on eternally unstable interfaces it'll break and take down your whole system. Just use runit like a sane person.
Hunter Lewis
>intentionally break standards and accessibility so you can show a rotating carousel of ethnically-diverse stock photo models and load 3mbs of tracking scripts >"ugh... why does nobody understand that I'm a code artisan"
w3m is an amazing browser. It doesn't "break" anything. It just doesn't load harmful software (javascript)
Chase Edwards
...
Nolan Rodriguez
>Yes but I don't want one software to view those formats, that's not unix no, that's exactly the unix way.
Colton Johnson
Seems to me you are the one losing his own argument
Nathaniel King
>I use X Install Wayland, 2016 today.
Brandon Myers
ncurses programs are interactive two-dimensional plots as opposed to 1D command-line utilities. Just because something can run in a tty doesn't make it not a gui
Is nethack not graphical either?
Matthew Ross
Yes, true.
jpegview is unix because it 1. Does one job: view jpegs 2. Does it well: apparently
Josiah Ortiz
You said "fight me" not "p-please don't fight me I-I'm scared", so why are you so desperately trying to dig yourself a hole to hide in?
Wyatt White
>eternally unstable interfaces And don't forget, it's explicitly that way to discourage any attempt at replacing parts of systemd. You can either take it all or leave it. (Oh wait, did I say leave it? I meant take it all after we coopt your distro writers.)
James Cox
How does that lower the barrier to entry? No newbie is going to be screwing around with those.
Checkmate, NSA shills.
Joseph Parker
Is that real? What a bunch of amateur faggots
Sebastian Brown
I don't know if Open BSD even cares about Wayland. I certainly don't. My machine works the way it is. Only Linux kids are obsessed with installing new unstable software for no reason. Hence systemd.
Lincoln Moore
Do you have problem with having conversation with others? How often does it happen?
Leo Price
>lack of bugs is forbidden in systemdland
Also it looks like hiroshima fucked up (as usual), instead of reducing the post timer of pass holders, he (also?) makes post fail without waiting double the regular time "at random".
Hunter Cook
You have thoroughly proven that you cannot read and comprehend my post and are now in full damage control trying to shift the fault on to me.
Asher Turner
...
Easton Young
>maximum 5 windows open at once >crashes every 10 seconds No thanks.
Bentley Adams
I included the URL in the image to ensure you could verify it.
Camden Stewart
...
Robert Hernandez
>When it is acceptable? >"when it is broken , ... ..."
You lost, hate to break it to ya
Jayden Russell
Runit is more file-y than systemd. Every service is represented as a file and can be started, checked, stopped, whatever by reading to or writing from a file. Since runit is more Unix like we should all switch to that.
Joseph Bailey
>harmful software (javascript) lol
Dominic Diaz
I'm the guy who wrote the original post, I didn't write the response to you. I've used openrc before and it's about the same as systemd but you have to use gentoo.
Josiah Roberts
Holy shit I just saw this. At this stage I'm taking that as strong evidence that they're TRYING to introduce bugs and backdoors.
Noah Mitchell
>1D command-line utilities what ?
>Just because something can run in a tty doesn't make it not a gui it pretty much does.
are bash scripts using read and echo GUIs too?
Ryan Allen
>call wayland not stable >use deprecated, fat and slow display server which is not Unix-way >User-space drivers instead of drm >shitty 3D support instead of direct access to gpu Ohhh...
Henry Peterson
Yes it is as those aren't random C files. Have you even checked how systemd code is laid out? They are separated in a way that each implements a certain function necessary to the rest of the tools. That is the very reason that some of them can be used outside of systemd. Xorg and even Linux itself are modular for the same reasons.
Cooper Fisher
You can create script or app - wrapper for this tools.
Leo Lopez
Yeah the thread I posted it in half an hour ago seemed to get instantly deleted.
Mason Gray
KDE? Ahaha.
James Harris
Why are you so blindingly retarded user? Is it because we're in a shitstemdick thread? Is it?
Camden Wright
>Write programs that do one thing and do it well. >Write programs to work together.
Aaron Watson
You can also use it on debian (with devuan repos) and arch, desu.
Leo Bell
>Not unix argument is now gone So what next, kids?
Jayden Scott
yikes! that's coming out pretty salty, user.
Daniel White
No, weston.
Jason Martinez
rtorrent is GUI, fdisk - TUI.
Cameron Turner
systemd is not the only future to sysvinit, it's just the first one with a major company trying to shove it down everyone else's throat.
Andrew Garcia
Not-UNIX argument is alive and well. You are, however, ignoring it like the vapid retarded braindead shilling fucktwat you are. Commit sudoku.
Charles Brown
found the webdev
what framework are you shilling on hackernews this week?
one dimensional programs are things like read and echo, which operate on linear input and provide linear output without constructing any sort of visual metaphor
if rtorrent were a command-line utility, you'd poll it with stuff like "torrent-add clownbukakke_ukr.torrent" or "torrent-progress clownbukakke_ukr.torrent -> 89%"
but since you can navigate it in a virtual window with arrow keys, it is graphical
everything in the Open BSD base system (including X) is perfectly stable. Open BSD code is often radically different from it's GNU counterparts. I don't run into errors or performance issues, so it'd be foolish of me to change. And I definitely don't give a fuck about 3D support. Who cares.
Henry Torres
Pure coincidence :^)
Christopher Hughes
It's convenient.
Kevin Long
What? >Your kernel is not unix >Your Media player/viewer is not unix >Your browser is not unix Fuck even your washing machine is not unix
What's the point of unix?
Blake Hill
Unix is a philosophy and 'way of doing things', not a set of programs.
Isaiah Nelson
>unix unix-way Unix OS dead, but it's work still alive.
Gabriel Davis
Yes, the way of doing things dictate that you must do 1 thing 1 thing well.
Show me one thing in your life that follows this way and not a useless garbage.
Isaac Miller
The unix argument is basically that modularity is good engineering practice. Which it is. And that systemd is a monolithic piece of garbage. Which it is. It actively resists being broken into the separate independent programs it should be. That's why they keep the interfaces between the components unstable. Now kill yourself, garbage shill.
Colton Robinson
>OS dead >Work still alive lel I wonder why it died
Carson Allen
A hammer hammers. A screwdriver drives screws. A knife cuts etc.
Systemd is trying to be a swiss pocketknife - in itself not a great offense - a jack of all trades that is good at nothing in particular.
Henry Gonzalez
>one dimensional programs are things like read and echo, which operate on linear input and provide linear output without constructing any sort of visual metaphor >but since you can navigate it in a virtual window with arrow keys, it is graphical
you can do that in a normal shell script too, you can draw windows, create drop down menus, etc with just a loop, echo and read. you can even rebuild the whole rtorrent interface in a shell script
Justin Morgan
>a jack of all trades that is good at nothing FTFY
Levi Lee
>I wonder why it died because it was replaced by free software?
UNIX-ass UNIX is closed source and costs money.
Carson Campbell
additional to i should probably mention that i get where you are coming from, but those things are still called TUIs, not GUIs
Jace Nelson
Again, why should anyone care about unix? >Modularity Systemd is modular >Monolithic No micro kernels have been successful
Why is it so hard for you autists to accept?
>A hammer >Screwdriver >Knife also used as a weapon... NOT unix
Money isn't the only concern, Microsoft makes the most popular desktop OS which is not free
John Fisher
You're telling me that effective visual metaphors can be created from a collection of primitive procedures that operate on standard input and output? You don't say!
Angel Gomez
>ignores the core of the argument Exactly what I expected from you, retarded mouthbreathing shit flinging poomonkey. Kill yourself with a rusty spoon.
Josiah Evans
Well, you know what they say, You know you won your argument when your opponent resorts to ad hominem
Grayson Scott
UNIX wasn't a desktop operating system. Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with this.
Institutions that would have used UNIX 30 years ago use Linux or BSD, which are free Unix clones.
Dylan Williams
>he can't even recognise when someone is or isn't using an ad hominem For fucks sake. I'm not putting up with this. I demand a better class of shill! Go switch out with your manager for a bit.
Lincoln Hughes
So why aren't people using UNIX clones like BSD on desktops? It's pretty old. Why isn't MacOS succeeding?
Ah so salty.
Just face it, Systemd in Linux is the future. UNIX will stay dead
Caleb Nelson
MacOS is a proprietary graphical environment on top of BSD. Millions of people are using it.
Jackson Howard
>Why isn't MacOS succeeding? The OS that already has something like systemd (except not quite as bad)?
Brayden Cox
>Millions of people are using it. Compared to windows (not UNIX) it failed miserably
Windows does have svchost...
Tyler Allen
Uzbl, Luakit, Jumanji, Conkerror, Vimb, qutebrowser have been updated within the last 6 months have you tried any of the rest?
Zachary Ward
last time i tried uzbl was ~1 1/2 years ago and it was barely useable. haven't tried the others, i might check them out, thanks
Joseph Nelson
>second time using the term FUD >not obvious
William Howard
Not him but except for qutebrowser they all use an ancient buggy insecure webkit version.
Christopher Richardson
Don't know, besides Conkerror which is Gecko-based. It certainly is a good option but it is quite larger in size than the rest.
Jonathan Wright
don't even bother mentioning that meme crap they all run on top of webshit which totally sinks their "muh minimal do one thing" argument there is nothing impressive about writing a new interface to a bloated pos
Sebastian Perry
Oh yes, confused conkeror with another microbrowser
Alexander Moore
if that is your metric, then mcdonald's is the greatest restaurant of all time and superhero movies are certified kino masterworks
Landon Morales
People want a thing that works, Mcdonalds is cheap and easy food, whenever you want.
However for restaurant you gotta preserve your seat, spend some more money and can't even takeaway your meal. hint: It's a hobby, nothing else
Luke Ward
A web browser is split to the engine and the GUI. Those browsers were made because of dissatisfaction with current interfaces. For that reason a new engine isn't an option.
Now, is there any better option that WebKit? Blink maybe as they purged a large part of the codebase? Gecko is bloated as well and Servo is still in development.
William Baker
uselessd seemed to be an interesting project but it is dead has any other picked up where it left?
Joseph Anderson
>Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up that IS a myth
Henry Ross
>Lying on the internet
Joshua Carter
There is no evidence whatsoever that systemd improves boot times. (As compared to what, in any event?) Protip: personal screenshots are not proof.
Thomas Powell
Wow, 4 megabytes in 2016? What a massive piece of shit. I'm sure all the features it offers isn't worth being able to save 10 more animu reaction pictures.
Jose Cooper
>the boot up speed is ... real - Torvalds, L, Debconf, 2014
Two of your links are talking about the same (isolated) case by the way
Robert Miller
>Not an argument >Not an argument >Not an argument Too weak, user.
Even I see my system boots faster than upstart now after 16.04 upgrade.
Enjoy your denial
Brody Anderson
SystemD is AIDS and slackware is immune to your botnet/virus. Get cuck'd
Leo Wilson
...
Gavin Miller
how can I have fonts like that?
Colton Sanchez
Hey guys, 'member Upstart?
Carson Ross
standardize inner interfaces and make the parts actually replaceable one by one.
Brayden Campbell
>he shills for red hat/nsa systemd for free >he doesn't even get paid a rupee like pajeet does what a sad existence
Sebastian Lewis
systemd is red hat pulling a microsoft on linux world, regardless of features or bugs of the implementation.
Oliver Wood
goto fail;
Nathaniel Reed
Nice meme.
John Evans
How is Upstart? Never really looked into it.
Mason Nelson
Upstart and pic related have on thing in common.
Aiden Mitchell
221 posts. 17 images. by only 41 IP's.
Oliver Wilson
wow you were calling me Lennart a few posts ago. I am offended ;_;
Jonathan Phillips
0Linux 4MLinux Absolute Linux AgiliaLinux Alpine Linux Amazon Linux AMI antiX Arch OpenRC ArchBang AUSTRUMI Calculate Linux ConnochaetOS Crux DeLi(cate) Linux Devil-Linux live Devuan Dragora GNU/Linux Libre Elive Linux Exe GNU/Linux Finnix Funtoo Linux Gentoo Linux gNewSense GNU/Linux GNUinos Libre GoboLinux Grml Live Linux GuixSD Kwort Linux Leenux LinuxBBQ Linux from Scratch Linux Console Manjaro Milis Linux NuTyX Obarun OpenMediaVault Openwall GNU/*/Linux (Owl) Overclockix Parted Magic PCLinuxOS Pentoo Pisi Linux Plamo Linux Porteus Porteus Kiosk Puppy Linux Pür Linux Refracta RLSD Sabotage Linux Salix Simplicity Linux Slackel Slackware Slax SliTaz Source Mage GNU/Linux Spark Linux sta.li SystemRescueCd Tiny Core Linux TLD Linux TRIOS Linux Unity Linux Univention Corporate Server Vector Linux Void Linux Volumio wifislax Zenwalk
Dylan Carter
>sta.li The biggest meme in the industry.
Christian Torres
Isnt that dude a complete tool that silences any contrary voices?
Charles Thompson
Half of those have been abandoned long ago.
Isaiah Fisher
No facebook Oauth2 integration (yet)
Parker Russell
i see no faster boot compared to openrc
it can be even a HECK slower if decides to do it's 90s service checks
as i said, a myth
Jeremiah Sanchez
>Install Waylan What the fuck for? All this newfag shit that intends to replace working stable Unix software is NSA bot net shit.
Noah Wood
>X11 was so great, lets be just like it!
Isaiah Adams
it's POSIX compliant as a tradition because free software is by nature not made to be unified formally under standards
Daniel Reed
yes, because an init system should be an OS
Jacob Smith
So I'm using Trisquel, which uses Upstart. I've always avoided systemd and wanted a libre distro, and Trisquel works well on my system. I'm not completely satisfied with Upstart though. It uses parts of systemd's code. As you can see, it still uses systemd-logind and udevd services. Also, it's owned by Canonical, which worries me even more than systemd. What do you guys think? Am I just replacing one evil with another, outdated evil?
Jason Morgan
Systemd isn't modular. Take out one part and try to replace it. Within one version it'll break and you're left with an unbootable system. Good job faggot.
Kevin Cox
agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet >The bug is remarkably banal. The above systemd-notify command sends a zero-length message to the world-accessible UNIX domain socket located at /run/systemd/notify. PID 1 receives the message and fails an assertion that the message length is greater than zero. Despite the banality, the bug is serious, as it allows any local user to trivially perform a denial-of-service attack against a critical system component.
Cant seem to find cockpit in the systemd repo, bro.
Evan Butler
>bait appreciation thread general
Lucas Mitchell
He didn't say that he has proof. He explained quite logically why there are some reasons for concern. The world is not black and white, concern will keep you safe especially when you are not sure what to believe in. Are you sure?
Jaxon Reed
Not true at all. At compile time you have a number of configure switches to select what you want to build, and what not. And we document how you can select in even more detail what you need, going beyond our configure switches.
This modularity is not totally unlike the one of the Linux kernel, where you can select many features individually at compile time. If the kernel is modular enough for you then systemd should be pretty close, too.
Colton Sanchez
With systemd, you can e.g. have systemd-init and not systemd-logind. However, you CANNOT have systemd-logind without systemd-init. That's why your claim is false and also completely pointless.
Aaron Diaz
>you CANNOT have a child package without the parent package wow you are really that desperate to make it seem like you have a point.
last (you)
Lincoln Reyes
I accept your surrender.
Joseph Ross
>this level of buzzwording you're modular or you're not, no double-dipping faggot
Josiah Reed
So what's your reason of shilling against a free and open source software such a systemd
Samuel Thomas
It is designed to minimize user and developer freedom alike.
Jeremiah Ward
>user freedom users don't care about init system. If they care the'd choose one that lets him use pulseaudio/GNOME and wayland
>dev freedom If systemd affects you in any way as a dev you should give up
Nathaniel Rodriguez
furthermore systemd is compatible with older init scripts
Grayson Martinez
I don't care if people want to use systemd, Or if it's offered as an alternative init system. What I don't approve of is how it's become a dependency for some many things. It's behaving as if it's a Linux user land cancer, swollowing up projects and OS functionality into a huge blob.
Another valid point already mentioned in the thread is auditing? How do security professionals get the chance to audit something that's so large in scope and so constantly in flux? The amount of posible interactions is enormous.
While init scripts are a clunky solution at least it's easily auditable. It seems distributions are trading auditablity for convenience
Caleb Mitchell
Shit like runscript is just as, if not more, convenient than unit files, too.
Adrian Myers
Well, systemd certainly covers more ground that it used to. It's not just an init system anymore, but the basic userspace building block to build an OS from, but they carefully make sure to keep most of the features optional. You can turn a lot off at compile time, and even more at runtime. Thus you can choose freely how much feature creeping you want.
It's like when hippies started crying about logind "removing" udev. Funny thing that they didn't know is: logind configs are all #disabled by default. It's your choice whether to enable parts of it
Zachary White
fast moving, complex corporate tied code controlling core components of an OS
it's as close as you can get to proprietary as possible
Michael Davis
>Fast moving Wow you sure don't seem to like any active progress in the land of Linux. Sorry but I think you are showing symptoms of Metathesiophobia
>Corporate tied code No it's licensed under GPL. Don't like it? Fork it, release a better version. Stop maintaining the code, because that's what you are used to: sloth progress
Jonathan Wilson
>it's better becuz it moves fast and is bloated monolithic shitware
why not just contribute to Windows? you seem to have their mindset down
Charles Gomez
>monolithic shitware Seems like someone doesn't use Linux
>why not contribute to windows I used to
Logan Martinez
Shill time!
Jason Johnson
you can seperate out all the ingredients for spaghetti bolognese too, but at some point it stops being spaghetti bolognese and just a bunch of shit you wouldn't want to eat by itself.
Systemd might be nicely seperated out, but you can't actually take bits away and have it still work.
I don't see how anyone can defend systemd after the comments about how it should be web enabled.
Aiden Reed
...
Nicholas Smith
nice
Jeremiah Foster
...
Charles Garcia
>neatly separated Thank god the 69 fucking binaries that are needed to run an init script are "neatly separated".
I love eating shit, that's why I love to run systemd on all my mission critical machines.
It's so well designed that they have to serialise its state regularly just in case it crashes if you stare at it for too long.
William Hughes
Thank you for Correcting The Record on systemd, I am now a #PotteringMissile
>Calling me Lennart won't help you with anything. Shut up Lennart
Nicholas Nguyen
Hey I am Lennart. I am paid by the NSA and Linus works with me in the NSA head quarters located at washington. We watch you masturbate to chinese cartoons everyday. We even employed your mom and dad to spy on you. There are 16 spycams in your basement where you live. Laden is alive. Hambergers can see the future. Obama is an Alien. Systemd is our home serveilence system. We hired shills to market systemd in Cred Forums/g/. You know too much so you should shut your mouth.
Stop resisting otherwise we'll poison you to death.
You are warned.
Asher Hernandez
Systemd kernel and bootloader when? Desktop environment when?
Christian Thompson
>Professional sysadmins are actually keen on reduced downtimes during maintenance windows. Think about it. This is the stupidest shit ever. Upstart already was fast. Heck, a Linux Server if you boot up an Ubuntu 6.06 for example, will boot under 5-10 seconds.
5 or 10 fucking seconds. Jesus Fucking Christ, that's a lot of time!
Evan Russell
> to use Like what do you use it for?
Brandon Smith
what the FUCK?!
Julian Harris
Upstart worked mighty fine, there is nothing wrong with it. But I don't see why distros didn't adopt Upstart, but immediately started adopting Systemd.
It's just worrying.
Brody Peterson
>How NOT to write system critical code that needs to be audited It's like he WANTS to introduce backdoors
Thomas Carter
Same question I've always had as well user.
Daniel Hughes
Did you ever USE upstart? They had a fantastic GUIDE BOOK written for it. I wish I had known it better under the hood cause at least in presentation and user-facingness it was quite pleasant to work with.
Of course I was using a meme-machine with gentoo at the time so that was going to be short lived no matter what.
Angel Price
Upstart stops daemons with kill -9.
Samuel Morales
- Try to use this:
void foo() { }
instead of this:
void foo() { }
But it is OK if you do not.
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDD
That is some strict coding style! What the fuck?!
Levi King
>A FUCKING WEBSERVER BUNDLED IN AN INIT Just end your life senpai.
Brayden Morgan
Of course, Ubuntu used it for quite a while, so all Ubuntu derivatives also had it. I wrote my services on it, used on Desktop and Server. I still have nothing against it even today.
It was an init server with parallel service starting, dependencies, it was able to analyze boot times too, yet it retained the classic style.
So I just don't know. It had a strong company behind it (not that you ever needed that, Debian had an init system totally free and open source that worked, Gentoo has one), and you know it was there.
But somehow Red Hat and Poottering came along and every distro suddenly did a real hard push to adopt it. Even when KMS came along and stuff like that, distros took time, they experimented and whatnot.
There was nothing like that now.
And systemd kills processes by default if you log off. Though, what can you do if you issue a service a stop, and it does not stop? -9 is needed if you reboot, you just gotta kill it in the end...
Lucas Brooks
>Just face it, Systemd in Linux is the future. I agree, which is why I switched to FreeBSD. Joke is on you NSA.
Elijah Cook
Jesus fucking Christ...
Tyler Collins
Nice meme pajeet, thanks for admitting it's one guy shilling the entire thread.
Evan Rogers
Gentoo is not bad either. A simple web server, a service server, vm host, and so on are all very easy to set up. Heck, even a desktop, like: 1) add the cores into make.conf 2) add a very few useflags 3) use genkernel 4) wait 4-10 hours
Mason Campbell
No problem. The power of GPL will always protect me.
Cameron Ross
No worries NSA. Hope you enjoy your shill points.
Thomas Perry
Hey, smart people! Can someone here crack my wpa2 handshake? I'm hopeless..
Lucas Peterson
I don't understand the need to defend or rebuke systemd. People have move on and so should Cred Forums.
Jeremiah Russell
You do realize that any project worth their salt (including systemd) are compiling with -Wmisleading-indentation set to error right?
There's no way that these issues would go unnoticed by the compiler and worrying about them in 2016 makes you look like a dinosaur.
Wyatt Flores
>worrying about them in 2016 makes you look like a dinosaur.
yeah. goto fail;
totally dinosaur.
Jacob Powell
kek systemd bootloader is a neat idea actually. Makes more sense
Christopher Sanchez
Calling people old doesn't really work as a defense.
Elijah Miller
Posted by EditorDavid on Saturday October 01, 2016 @07:34PM from the 51-character-exploits dept. An anonymous reader writes: System administrator Andrew Ayer has discovered a potentially critical bug in systemd which can bring a vulnerable Linux server to its knees with one command. "After running this command, PID 1 is hung in the pause system call. You can no longer start and stop daemons. inetd-style services no longer accept connections. You cannot cleanly reboot the system." According to the bug report, Debian, Ubuntu, and CentOS are among the distros susceptible to various levels of resource exhaustion. The bug, which has existed for more than two years, does not require root access to exploit.
> I'm not a dinosaur, look at this bug from 2014! Ok guy.
Jose Cruz
systemd is life systemd is love
Nicholas Long
No, but it does work as an insult.
Eli Bell
>It's not just an init system anymore, but the basic userspace building block to build an OS from i.e it's cancer. Thanks for trying, shill.
Dylan Kelly
>Can't read a full post neo-Cred Forums, everyone
Landon Reed
DELET THIS
Jace Gutierrez
>worrying about bugs that popped up time and time again for the last few years makes you old >[CURRENT YEAR] maymay thanks for proving us right.
Eli Mitchell
>Ok guy. You're a fucking nigger :^)
>bawww he didn't read my copy pasta >muh systemd building blocks >muh retarded analogies >turning init into the fucking operating system >doesn't understand what the kernel is for >systemd will have its own kernel soon, which you can use to build a fucking OS out of Get the fuck off Cred Forums Lennart, we've had enough of your shit.
Eli Ward
Are you 14?
Owen Rivera
neatly separated then sewn together so they can't work without extensive modification instead of being able to swap out parts with one command like non-retarded systems
Daniel James
Myth 5: Succumb the the system. You're just a user. You have no control.
Adrian Cooper
tansmission
Sebastian Hughes
What's so bad about systemd though?
Gabriel Rivera
Okay guys, I did it. I installed runit on arch and I'm currently in the process of removing systemd from my system. Had a bit of an issue with pulseaudio throwing a fit but that's all fixed. Just needed to remove a few of PA's systemd modules. Tbqh I'm amazed everything went as smoothly as it did. And everything seems a lot more transparent. Before, I just knew "systemd initializes the system," now it's all laid out in very simple shell scripts. I've never done much shell scripting but even I'm able to understand these. Everything can be controlled and monitored either through special files in each service's directory or by using sv which seems kind of like systemctl. Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything from starting services to changing my hostname, locale, or time zone.
Luis Reed
How is Reddit for people who use certain software?
My system has no photo viewer or video player, because it's installed from a minimal installer. To paraphrase you: "why are you on Cred Forums if you don't know that?"
Leo Roberts
>Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything True, now you just need other binaries like your text editor to do everything.
You apparently went through an immense effort to replace something with something that works identical, just because other people told you so. Either that, or you're a legitimate retard who doesn't see that he ended up with the same thing in a different package. A shitty, less supported and less mainstream package.
Jayden Perez
Software has bugs?! STOP THE PRESSES. Fixed already.
Hunter Jackson
>immense effort no
>because other people told you so no
>same thing in a different package no
>A shitty, less supported and less mainstream package
>You have to only use the most mainstream stuff! Drink Coke! use Windows >everything else is just a shitty, less supported and less mainstream version no
>without systemd its the same anyway so use systemd or you're retarded. wat
Connor Gonzalez
You do realize linux is about using your computer the way you want right? you don't seem to grasp that concept.
Liam Garcia
Nonsense, Linux is about Red Hat selling more workstations to the NSA.
Robert Williams
> (You) >>Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything >True, now you just need other binaries like your text editor to do everything. Which is 500 times more sane than having binaries for every tiny task.
>You apparently went through an immense effort Lemme stop you there my man. All I did was install arch-runit and create a 1 line shell script service for lightdm. If that's immense effort you probably need to just kill yourself. >to replace something with something that works identical, Wrong. Works better. I know how this works. I can just look at runit's scripts and see exactly what's up. Systemd? For the past month since I installed its taken several minutes to boot because "a start job is running for incredibly long uuid that you cant copy, good luck tracking down the issue faggot" >just because other people told you so. I've used runit before when i tried out void Linux. >Either that, or you're a legitimate retard who doesn't see that he ended up with the same thing in a different package. Nope, this is better. I can feel the Unix philosophy coursing through my veins now. >A shitty systemdcuck detected >less supported and less mainstream package. If you care about mainstream and support just go back to Windows.
Nathaniel Smith
With systemd I can plug in a usb stick and have it mount easily on a base system without having to edit config files. Good enough for me.
Kevin Ramirez
systemd swallowed udisks?
Luis Russell
systemd already has a bootloader.
Jacob Moore
Why do systemdcucks act like every feature on the planet is exclusive to them? What will they do when they find out that other inits even have features that systemd doesn't?
Aiden Scott
>But he installed runit! On arch! That's not supported! And I'm using EFISTUB to boot without GRUB or systemd-boot. Anything that isn't mainstream triggers Cred Forums's archfags.
Luke Collins
You realize that is also in the kernel coding style as well. Do not unnecessarily use braces where a single statement will do.
if (condition) action();
and
if (condition) do_this(); else do_that();
Juan Carter
Yeah but at least the kernel isn't as monolithic or un-unixlike oh wait it is
Everyone just needs to admit that they have no argument against systemd besides hipster elitism.