Lennart Poettering/SystemD appreciation thread general

Myths busted:
Myth 1: systemd is not UNIX.
False. The design of systemd as a suite of integrated tools that each have their individual purposes but when used together are more than just the sum of the parts.
SystemD exemplifies the UNIX idea of "everything is a file” . all services are exposed at runtime in a kernel file system, cgroupfs.


Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up is irrelevant for servers.
Professional sysadmins are actually keen on reduced downtimes during maintenance windows. Think about it.

Myth 3: systemd is incompatible with shell scripts.
Complete FUD. systems is fully compatible with shell scripts.

Myth 4: systemd is monolithic
69 individual binaries. These binaries all serve different tasks, and are neatly separated.

Other urls found in this thread:

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Free.2FOpen_Source_Operating_systems_without_systemd_in_the_default_installation
osnews.com/comments/25946
youtube.com/watch?v=KArhwU65ROI
phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/30208-a-two-second-boot-time-with-systemd
agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/events/21
zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-23/1967-he-cia-created-phrase-conspiracy-theorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge
linux.slashdot.org/story/16/10/01/2155209/multiple-linux-distributions-affected-by-crippling-bug-in-systemd
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

>69 individual binaries for an init system

all of which are neatly separated. next!

Also they don't run as PID1 like many microsoft shills falsely spread as part of their Anti-Linux, Anti-FOSS campaign.

thanks for your positive contribution

It's supposed to be a "system and service manager for Linux". That's what those other 68 binaries are for.

...

Linux is not POSIX certified

or POSIX compliant.

Fuck off NSA shill

but what runs in PID 1 is easily DoSable by incorrectly sanitized strings :^)
>parsing input in PID 1
>2016
choose one

so can you name one good reason why everything should be merged into systemd ?
poettering isn't actually known for producing quality software.

>Myth 1: systemd is not UNIX.

If 70% of the Linux community tells you, you are not doing it right, you are probably not doing it right.


>Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up is irrelevant for servers.

SystemD has some good ideas but does them wrong.


>Myth 4: systemd is monolithic

I don't think you understood the word "monolithic". If I create 1000 files that are all dependent on each other it's absolutely monolithic. It's not about the numbers of files, it's about seperation of concerns.

>69 binaries
But why?
OpenRC much faster and only one binary.

>faster
Honestly, no

>OpenRC
Not even an init system lmao.

If you don't want to use those other binaries, then don't use them. It's not hard.

5 seconds boot from HDD 7200rpm
Init System, best of the best
But systemd extremely FAT. Pic related.

>all of which are neatly separated
retarded faggot

millennial failgrammers need to die

>Can't post a screenshot
lel

And that's not really faster. 2-3 seconds to my desktop. But you don't even use Linux do you

This is framebuffer.
I do. Your desktop boots from SSD I think, post your boot time here.

>screenshot of a tty
Yo is this person fucking retarded?

There is framebuffer screenshoot utility, but screenshoots ugly.

Here's one of many reasons. You should not have to understand a scripting language to do something simple like start a process at boot.


Systemd made that much easier and in the process made the barrier of entry to Linux in general lower which is great, unless of course you an elitist neckbeard on Cred Forums.

And I can't crop it in framebuffer, Full HD display.

>Init System, best of the best
What?
Systemd replaces /sbin/init
OpenRC does not, it replaces /sbin/rc
OpenRC is not an init system, it is a service manager that uses an external init system.

kike@kike: ps -q 1
PID TTY TIME CMD
1 ? 00:00:01 systemd

What is easier for example?

You still have to learn systemdicks' "simpler" abstraction, you dumb asshole. Any non-neckbeard is going to nope.txt out either way, they won't see the difference.

Where are the other 68 PID1 binaries that come with systemd, that only shows systemd binary which is a bad example because the systemd (init) code is less LoC than sysvinit.

I don't think you understand how systemd works. I suggest you read up on how it's binaries interface with each other. protip: it isn't monolithic.

In regerence to the "70%" of the Linux communuty saying "it's wrong". May I remind you that systemd is now in place on 100% of major distributions. Are all of the distro maintainers wrong? and a bunch of neckbeareds right?

I know who my moneys on.

SysV is a kludgy mess. systemd is the future.

You my friend, need to either embrace these facts or get on and build an alternative, but I suspect as with most other neckbeards you are intellectually incapable of doing so.

You said systemd it's 69 separate binaries, which one is init system and how to get it without 68 pieces of shit?
IBF: No fucking way.
SystemD is not Unix-way, just like Xorg, which is deprecated.

>systemd is not UNIX.
Why would Linux want to emulate a dead standard?

>hating systemd
Cred Forums has only gotten worse since 2014

people are still posting the old systemd, arch memes but threads about SJW shenanigans on github are instantly deleted.

You seem retarded, I'm not going to bother replying to you from here on out.

only 2-3 kids are left to hate systemd these days

see my previous reply you retard. clue: init scripts.

Why are all you faggots feeding the incredibly obvious cancer shill thread?

Sounds like a cool kid.

/thread

Unix-way says:
Do one thing and do it well.

>SJW
what do you mean? "SJW shenanigans on github "

Where's the nearest store to find that tinfoil?

Yeah, I kinda want my browser to view photos and play videos

for the same reason that you did. now wind your neck in please neckbeard. the adults are talking :)

Have you ever actually tried Alpine? It's really good.

It's alpha dogshit and no one uses it; not even you

I'll just leave this here then. Have fun with your shitpile, lennart!

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

What do I use now? What distro?

Browser must not do all it by itself, it must call system utils like ffmpeg, use system libraries so on.
If you don't do so you reinventing the wheel

The main page has a convenient list.
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Free.2FOpen_Source_Operating_systems_without_systemd_in_the_default_installation

Chromium doesn't need ffmpeg.

Strange, many of them are suggesting distros with Linux or X-org or firefox. They add up to millions of lines of code. I can't audit them. Aren't they NSA botnet?

GTFO shill, we all know you're not just pretending to be retarded.

Confirmed for crackpot conspiracy theorist.

Is there anyone out there bitching about systemd who isn't a complete moron?

>Here's one of many reasons. You should not have to understand a scripting language to do something simple like start a process at boot.
Stop pretending sysVinit is the only init system around

No not really? What's so bad about systemd?

And please don't post that tinfoil link, I've read it all and they are debunked a long time ago. I want YOUR argument?

>pretending to want to know why it's so bad so you can just ignore any reason given and shill some more
Just kill yourself already Lennart. Nobody likes you.

What's so wrong with having 10mb of unused binaries on your computer? If you don't like those other binaries, leave them alone. Otherwise, you can always write you own package that doesn't pull in those other binaries like the official package.

I'm using it right now on two computers. What problems have you had with it?

Only issues I've had are with some packages from github being failed by musl.

Calling me Lennart won't help you with anything.

As an end-user, I really don't any strong arguments posted anywhere except from debunked bull crap

Post screenshot

he has no logical argument. none of these anti systemd crackpots do.

how is that even related to what i've asked ?

>I really don't any
pajeet pls

Start with failure in compiling broadcom-wl wireless driver and then we can talk about AMDGPU

An init system should do one thing only: Depending on a specific configuration, start a number of services - some of them as daemons. That's all.

Systemd sucks because it tries to do and be more than that.

>Reduced to Strawman
You are too weak


Anyone else?

Open BSD

Linux is a joke.

Gentoo obviously.

this is more then likely user error

OpenBSD has FBI backdoors.
Also it has no software

so you like having a browser with a half assed media player or image viewer instead of having the browser just use your default media player and image viewer ?

i'd rather use a media player developed by people only having a media player in mind.

You are one of those people who would use an email client instead of a web browser, a Cred Forums app instead of a web browser, a download manager instead of a web browser, external video player instead of a web browser, external photo viewer instead of a web browser, external music player instead of a web browser

You've already had plenty of solid arguments given to you. Some of which are quite technical. You have chosen to dismiss them all as "debunked bull crap" and yet still claim that you want to know why systemd is so bad in good faith. Just kill yourself already.

I use OpenRC. Why on earth would I use systemd?

Tons of software

see >Some of which are quite technical
None*

>No qBittorrent

Also, how do we make systemd acceptable? Let's enter the bargaining stage.

You asked me for a reason, i gave you one which you have now completely ignored. This is Typical neckbeard Cred Forums troll behavior.

Have fun with your kludgy init scripts. The professionals are using systemd

let me guess, emacs user ?

>He uses external photo viewer and media player because his browser is so shit

Which one? W3m? lynx?

He not a retarded faggot, just it is.

that's not a reason why everything should be _merged into systemd_

When it is broken, burning, and nuked from orbit, never to be spoken about or used again. Only then will it be acceptable.

See, some people don't use broken software unlike you

i'm not even sure anymore if you are trolling or serious... Cred Forums is a sad place

Join the NSA/RedHat katamari, user! It's fun! No bugs or issues at all! :^)

No I actually want to know what unix-browser do you use?

No, I'm one of those people who use the right tool for the right job.

You sound more like the sort of person who tries to saw a log with a hammer.

>use browser as:
>image viewer
>video player
>audio player
>youtube client
>email client
>irc client
>linux documentation
Retard.

Lennart says lots of shit in his article on debunking systemd "myths."

>systemd is incompatible with shell scripts
That is true. It is incompatible with every shell script written to be compatible with multiple init systems. Shell scripts for systemd must be written specifically for it,

>systemd is monolithic
That isn't myth. It is true. systemd is monolithic as most of those binaries depend on each other to function. You even wrote:
>systemd as a suite of integrated tools
It is though modular regardless of what some say but it isn't because of what options you have on compile time. (As Lennart article says.) Modularity and monolithic aren't mutually exclusive.

>If 70% of the Linux community tells you, you are not doing it right
70% of the Linux community doesn't know what an init system is and doesn't care to learn. Except if you mean 70% of the Gentoo users. Then yes neckbeards seem not to like systemd.

Yep. Some people don't use broken software. For everyone else, there's systemd. :^)

Well I'm not against that idea. But, to be honest, if there's one thing I don't like about the linux systems I set up is that every program has small syntactic differences.

Things like cron and starting services. You write crontab -e and then you get kicked into vi to edit a file. It's not outright bad or even bad, it's just different from how 90% of programs do their adding/removal of arbitrary entries.

I'd like for there to be some sort of common way to do this. Perhaps inadvertently, systemd solves this.

Now keep in mind, I don't like systemd and I use OpenRC.

spreading your aids around in a bunch of random c files =/= "modular"

Yes, my browser does all that so I don't have to pass media to VLC or Viewnior or anything...

I am one of the person that likes jack of all trades Swiss knives. Pretty handy

HIDE SHITSTEMD THREADS

IGNORE SHITSTEMD THREADS

DO NOT REPLY TO SHITSTEMD SHILLPOSTERS

You are the one who said systemd is acceptable when it is broken...


Do you have autism?

Install Gentoo. In the first place, it's the only distro that is rock solid, had metric fuckloads of packages, and doesn't become unstable as soon as you install a single more recent package. The compile time issues are greatly overrated, too: I'm using it on my 7 years old low-end laptop.

then get the fuck off of Cred Forums you idiot
reddit is more your pace

your system already has a photo viewer and video player; use those

No, I have a job and my browser shows photos in the web as well.

What unix-browser do you use? Care to post a screenshot?

>graphical bittorrent client
for what purpose?

no.

>No I actually want to know what unix-browser do you use?
you got me there, they are all shit (uzbl had some potential but i guess it's almost dead ?)
i use firefox but with external tools for watching videos or reading pdfs, etc.
and links2 together with surfraw and some other scripts

systemd will only be in an acceptable state (as in, a state of existence that can be tolerated) when it has been nuked from orbit and will never be used by anyone ever again. Which part of that was unclear?

The thing which I find striking in this debate that proponents of systemd seem to be well equipped with well reasoned, logical technology based arguments. To put it bluntly they all sound like professionals.

And on the other hand, the people trying to shill and discredit systemd lack logic and ultimately resort to crackpot conspiracy theories and FUD.

Pic related.

>2016
>systemd hate thread

Looks like Microsoft finally caught wind of systemd and has fired up PajeetNet.

Nice try shlomo. Everyone knows M$ created systemd to windowsize linux. There's a reason they celebrated the release of debian 8.

obvious samefag shilling is obvious, try harder

But which one?
There's jpegviewer for jpeg and pngviewer for png files?

Is this a joke? What's wrong with GUI?

No, you clearly said it is acceptable when it is broken so much so no one talks about it

Hello pajeet.

Firefox, it uses external tools for this job.

Firefox is not unix, it can and does show photos from the web

>sorry guys latest ffmpeg update broke firefox, not our fault XD

>Using bittorrent
>not using torrentctl client embedded in systemd

The original phrasing I used was
>never to be spoken about or used again
>or used again
Do you have trouble reading basic english, user?

>There's jpegviewer for jpeg and pngviewer for png files?
there are libraries providing these functions (yes, theres one for png, one for jpeg, etc) and tools (image viewers) that use those libraries.

I use Firefox because the broken state of the web (especially this fucking jew site) requires javascript even though imageboards can and do function with simple forms

it still doesn't change the fact that browsers should leverage extant system software instead of reinventing the wheel

to that end, I watch all web media in mpv, not laggy html5 players

before retarded webdevs put javascript in fucking everything I was able to browse the web successfully with nothing more than w3m. It was my main browser for months. Didn't stop me from enjoying videos or viewing images or replying to threads

>GUI
>use mouse in ttorent client
>can't run it in background

But uses external library for it. Unix-way.

I like systemd because it is easy to use and seems pretty fast. fight me.

libtorrent + rtorrent

it's still gui (ncurses) but runs in a terminal emulator (easily detached sessions) and doesn't require cancer like GTK or QT

I'm not one of those weirdos who operates exclusively from a tty and I use X, but there's literally no excuse for using massive graphical libraries for most things. I'm proud to say there's no GTK/QT on my machine

you do know that the only job your distros maintainer has is to ensure that that doesn't happen ?

A mail client, Cred Forums, a download manager, a video player, a photo viewer and a music player implemented in a web browser are programs as well.

That you're seeing a front-end with HTML/JavaScript doesn't change that the back-end is written in languages as PHP/Python/Ruby/etc or even C/C++.

Usage of web browser for everything can be compared to usage of terminals when mainframes were still dominant.

>intentionally breaks his browser
>"ugh webdevs ;_;"

Go to school reddit-kid.
if ffmpeg doesn't work, browser does work

It's literally harder to use than openrc and it's slower.

>it's still gui (ncurses)
no it's not
it's TUI - Text User Interface

>your original phrasing is
>broken
>nuked
Don't even try to backpedal, user

Yes but I don't want one software to view those formats, that's not unix

qBittorrent runs in background once you added the torrent, But what's wrong with GUI?

It uses library, obviously but the software is also showing different file formats - that can't be unix
>Do one thing (view jpeg OR png files) and do it good

>harder
for you maybe

>slower
nah

Ah, so you DO have trouble with basic english.

>neatly separated
Then try replacing just one. Protip: you can't. The second you do systemd will update and since your binary relied on eternally unstable interfaces it'll break and take down your whole system. Just use runit like a sane person.

>intentionally break standards and accessibility so you can show a rotating carousel of ethnically-diverse stock photo models and load 3mbs of tracking scripts
>"ugh... why does nobody understand that I'm a code artisan"

w3m is an amazing browser. It doesn't "break" anything. It just doesn't load harmful software (javascript)

...

>Yes but I don't want one software to view those formats, that's not unix
no, that's exactly the unix way.

Seems to me you are the one losing his own argument

>I use X
Install Wayland, 2016 today.

ncurses programs are interactive two-dimensional plots as opposed to 1D command-line utilities. Just because something can run in a tty doesn't make it not a gui

Is nethack not graphical either?

Yes, true.

jpegview is unix because it
1. Does one job: view jpegs
2. Does it well: apparently

You said "fight me" not "p-please don't fight me I-I'm scared", so why are you so desperately trying to dig yourself a hole to hide in?

>eternally unstable interfaces
And don't forget, it's explicitly that way to discourage any attempt at replacing parts of systemd. You can either take it all or leave it. (Oh wait, did I say leave it? I meant take it all after we coopt your distro writers.)

How does that lower the barrier to entry? No newbie is going to be screwing around with those.

Checkmate, NSA shills.

Is that real? What a bunch of amateur faggots

I don't know if Open BSD even cares about Wayland. I certainly don't. My machine works the way it is. Only Linux kids are obsessed with installing new unstable software for no reason. Hence systemd.

Do you have problem with having conversation with others? How often does it happen?

>lack of bugs is forbidden in systemdland

Also it looks like hiroshima fucked up (as usual), instead of reducing the post timer of pass holders, he (also?) makes post fail without waiting double the regular time "at random".

You have thoroughly proven that you cannot read and comprehend my post and are now in full damage control trying to shift the fault on to me.

...

>maximum 5 windows open at once
>crashes every 10 seconds
No thanks.

I included the URL in the image to ensure you could verify it.

...

>When it is acceptable?
>"when it is broken , ... ..."

You lost, hate to break it to ya

Runit is more file-y than systemd. Every service is represented as a file and can be started, checked, stopped, whatever by reading to or writing from a file. Since runit is more Unix like we should all switch to that.

>harmful software (javascript)
lol

I'm the guy who wrote the original post, I didn't write the response to you. I've used openrc before and it's about the same as systemd but you have to use gentoo.

Holy shit I just saw this. At this stage I'm taking that as strong evidence that they're TRYING to introduce bugs and backdoors.

>1D command-line utilities
what ?

>Just because something can run in a tty doesn't make it not a gui
it pretty much does.

are bash scripts using read and echo GUIs too?

>call wayland not stable
>use deprecated, fat and slow display server which is not Unix-way
>User-space drivers instead of drm
>shitty 3D support instead of direct access to gpu
Ohhh...

Yes it is as those aren't random C files. Have you even checked how systemd code is laid out? They are separated in a way that each implements a certain function necessary to the rest of the tools. That is the very reason that some of them can be used outside of systemd. Xorg and even Linux itself are modular for the same reasons.

You can create script or app - wrapper for this tools.

Yeah the thread I posted it in half an hour ago seemed to get instantly deleted.

KDE? Ahaha.

Why are you so blindingly retarded user? Is it because we're in a shitstemdick thread? Is it?

>Write programs that do one thing and do it well.
>Write programs to work together.

You can also use it on debian (with devuan repos) and arch, desu.

>Not unix argument is now gone
So what next, kids?

yikes! that's coming out pretty salty, user.

No, weston.

rtorrent is GUI, fdisk - TUI.

systemd is not the only future to sysvinit, it's just the first one with a major company trying to shove it down everyone else's throat.

Not-UNIX argument is alive and well. You are, however, ignoring it like the vapid retarded braindead shilling fucktwat you are. Commit sudoku.

found the webdev

what framework are you shilling on hackernews this week?

one dimensional programs are things like read and echo, which operate on linear input and provide linear output without constructing any sort of visual metaphor

if rtorrent were a command-line utility, you'd poll it with stuff like "torrent-add clownbukakke_ukr.torrent" or "torrent-progress clownbukakke_ukr.torrent -> 89%"

but since you can navigate it in a virtual window with arrow keys, it is graphical

everything in the Open BSD base system (including X) is perfectly stable. Open BSD code is often radically different from it's GNU counterparts. I don't run into errors or performance issues, so it'd be foolish of me to change. And I definitely don't give a fuck about 3D support. Who cares.

Pure coincidence :^)

It's convenient.

What?
>Your kernel is not unix
>Your Media player/viewer is not unix
>Your browser is not unix
Fuck even your washing machine is not unix

What's the point of unix?

Unix is a philosophy and 'way of doing things', not a set of programs.

>unix
unix-way
Unix OS dead, but it's work still alive.

Yes, the way of doing things dictate that you must do
1 thing
1 thing well.

Show me one thing in your life that follows this way and not a useless garbage.

The unix argument is basically that modularity is good engineering practice. Which it is. And that systemd is a monolithic piece of garbage. Which it is. It actively resists being broken into the separate independent programs it should be. That's why they keep the interfaces between the components unstable. Now kill yourself, garbage shill.

>OS dead
>Work still alive
lel I wonder why it died

A hammer hammers.
A screwdriver drives screws.
A knife cuts
etc.

Systemd is trying to be a swiss pocketknife - in itself not a great offense - a jack of all trades that is good at nothing in particular.

>one dimensional programs are things like read and echo, which operate on linear input and provide linear output without constructing any sort of visual metaphor
>but since you can navigate it in a virtual window with arrow keys, it is graphical

you can do that in a normal shell script too, you can draw windows, create drop down menus, etc with just a loop, echo and read. you can even rebuild the whole rtorrent interface in a shell script

>a jack of all trades that is good at nothing
FTFY

>I wonder why it died
because it was replaced by free software?

UNIX-ass UNIX is closed source and costs money.

additional to i should probably mention that i get where you are coming from, but those things are still called TUIs, not GUIs

Again, why should anyone care about unix?
>Modularity
Systemd is modular
>Monolithic
No micro kernels have been successful

Why is it so hard for you autists to accept?

>A hammer
>Screwdriver
>Knife
also used as a weapon... NOT unix

Money isn't the only concern, Microsoft makes the most popular desktop OS which is not free

You're telling me that effective visual metaphors can be created from a collection of primitive procedures that operate on standard input and output? You don't say!

>ignores the core of the argument
Exactly what I expected from you, retarded mouthbreathing shit flinging poomonkey. Kill yourself with a rusty spoon.

Well, you know what they say,
You know you won your argument when your opponent resorts to ad hominem

UNIX wasn't a desktop operating system. Microsoft doesn't have anything to do with this.

Institutions that would have used UNIX 30 years ago use Linux or BSD, which are free Unix clones.

>he can't even recognise when someone is or isn't using an ad hominem
For fucks sake. I'm not putting up with this. I demand a better class of shill! Go switch out with your manager for a bit.

So why aren't people using UNIX clones like BSD on desktops? It's pretty old. Why isn't MacOS succeeding?

Ah so salty.

Just face it, Systemd in Linux is the future.
UNIX will stay dead

MacOS is a proprietary graphical environment on top of BSD. Millions of people are using it.

>Why isn't MacOS succeeding?
The OS that already has something like systemd (except not quite as bad)?

>Millions of people are using it.
Compared to windows (not UNIX) it failed miserably

Windows does have svchost...

Uzbl, Luakit, Jumanji, Conkerror, Vimb, qutebrowser
have been updated within the last 6 months
have you tried any of the rest?

last time i tried uzbl was ~1 1/2 years ago and it was barely useable.
haven't tried the others, i might check them out, thanks

>second time using the term FUD
>not obvious

Not him but except for qutebrowser they all use an ancient buggy insecure webkit version.

Don't know, besides Conkerror which is Gecko-based. It certainly is a good option but it is quite larger in size than the rest.

don't even bother mentioning that meme crap
they all run on top of webshit which totally sinks their "muh minimal do one thing" argument
there is nothing impressive about writing a new interface to a bloated pos

Oh yes, confused conkeror with another microbrowser

if that is your metric, then mcdonald's is the greatest restaurant of all time and superhero movies are certified kino masterworks

People want a thing that works, Mcdonalds is cheap and easy food, whenever you want.

However for restaurant you gotta preserve your seat, spend some more money and can't even takeaway your meal.
hint: It's a hobby, nothing else

A web browser is split to the engine and the GUI. Those browsers were made because of dissatisfaction with current interfaces. For that reason a new engine isn't an option.

Now, is there any better option that WebKit? Blink maybe as they purged a large part of the codebase? Gecko is bloated as well and Servo is still in development.

uselessd seemed to be an interesting project but it is dead
has any other picked up where it left?

>Myth 2: systemd’s high speed boot-up
that IS a myth

>Lying on the internet

There is no evidence whatsoever that systemd improves boot times. (As compared to what, in any event?)
Protip: personal screenshots are not proof.

Wow, 4 megabytes in 2016? What a massive piece of shit. I'm sure all the features it offers isn't worth being able to save 10 more animu reaction pictures.

>the boot up speed is ... real
- Torvalds, L, Debconf, 2014

Also, osnews.com/comments/25946
youtube.com/watch?v=KArhwU65ROI
phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/30208-a-two-second-boot-time-with-systemd

>osnews.com/comments/25946
Not an argument
>youtube.com/watch?v=KArhwU65ROI
Not an argument
>phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/30208-a-two-second-boot-time-with-systemd
Not an argument

Two of your links are talking about the same (isolated) case by the way

>Not an argument
>Not an argument
>Not an argument
Too weak, user.

Even I see my system boots faster than upstart now after 16.04 upgrade.

Enjoy your denial

SystemD is AIDS and slackware is immune to your botnet/virus. Get cuck'd

...

how can I have fonts like that?

Hey guys, 'member Upstart?

standardize inner interfaces and make the parts actually replaceable one by one.

>he shills for red hat/nsa systemd for free
>he doesn't even get paid a rupee like pajeet does
what a sad existence

systemd is red hat pulling a microsoft on linux world, regardless of features or bugs of the implementation.

goto fail;

Nice meme.

How is Upstart? Never really looked into it.

Upstart and pic related have on thing in common.

221 posts.
17 images.
by only 41 IP's.

wow you were calling me Lennart a few posts ago. I am offended ;_;

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>sta.li
The biggest meme in the industry.

Isnt that dude a complete tool that silences any contrary voices?

Half of those have been abandoned long ago.

No facebook Oauth2 integration (yet)

i see no faster boot compared to openrc

it can be even a HECK slower if decides to do it's 90s service checks

as i said, a myth

>Install Waylan
What the fuck for? All this newfag shit that intends to replace working stable Unix software is NSA bot net shit.

>X11 was so great, lets be just like it!

it's POSIX compliant as a tradition because free software is by nature not made to be unified formally under standards

yes, because an init system should be an OS

So I'm using Trisquel, which uses Upstart. I've always avoided systemd and wanted a libre distro, and Trisquel works well on my system. I'm not completely satisfied with Upstart though. It uses parts of systemd's code. As you can see, it still uses systemd-logind and udevd services. Also, it's owned by Canonical, which worries me even more than systemd. What do you guys think? Am I just replacing one evil with another, outdated evil?

Systemd isn't modular. Take out one part and try to replace it. Within one version it'll break and you're left with an unbootable system. Good job faggot.

agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet
>The bug is remarkably banal. The above systemd-notify command sends a zero-length message to the world-accessible UNIX domain socket located at /run/systemd/notify. PID 1 receives the message and fails an assertion that the message length is greater than zero. Despite the banality, the bug is serious, as it allows any local user to trivially perform a denial-of-service attack against a critical system component.

cfp.systemd.io/en/systemdconf_2016/public/events/21
>We think that systemd's API should be trivial to access with web technologies, so we'll show you how to talk to that API directly from a web browser.

Cant seem to find cockpit in the systemd repo, bro.

>bait appreciation thread general

He didn't say that he has proof. He explained quite logically why there are some reasons for concern. The world is not black and white, concern will keep you safe especially when you are not sure what to believe in. Are you sure?

Not true at all. At compile time you have a number of configure switches to select what you want to build, and what not. And we document how you can select in even more detail what you need, going beyond our configure switches.

This modularity is not totally unlike the one of the Linux kernel, where you can select many features individually at compile time. If the kernel is modular enough for you then systemd should be pretty close, too.

With systemd, you can e.g. have systemd-init and not systemd-logind. However, you CANNOT have systemd-logind without systemd-init. That's why your claim is false and also completely pointless.

>you CANNOT have a child package without the parent package
wow you are really that desperate to make it seem like you have a point.

last (you)

I accept your surrender.

>this level of buzzwording
you're modular or you're not, no double-dipping faggot

So what's your reason of shilling against a free and open source software such a systemd

It is designed to minimize user and developer freedom alike.

>user freedom
users don't care about init system. If they care the'd choose one that lets him use pulseaudio/GNOME and wayland

>dev freedom
If systemd affects you in any way as a dev you should give up

furthermore systemd is compatible with older init scripts

I don't care if people want to use systemd, Or if it's offered as an alternative init system. What I don't approve of is how it's become a dependency for some many things. It's behaving as if it's a Linux user land cancer, swollowing up projects and OS functionality into a huge blob.

Another valid point already mentioned in the thread is auditing? How do security professionals get the chance to audit something that's so large in scope and so constantly in flux? The amount of posible interactions is enormous.

While init scripts are a clunky solution at least it's easily auditable. It seems distributions are trading auditablity for convenience

Shit like runscript is just as, if not more, convenient than unit files, too.

Well, systemd certainly covers more ground that it used to. It's not just an init system anymore, but the basic userspace building block to build an OS from, but they carefully make sure to keep most of the features optional. You can turn a lot off at compile time, and even more at runtime. Thus you can choose freely how much feature creeping you want.

It's like when hippies started crying about logind "removing" udev. Funny thing that they didn't know is: logind configs are all #disabled by default. It's your choice whether to enable parts of it

fast moving, complex corporate tied code controlling core components of an OS

it's as close as you can get to proprietary as possible

>Fast moving
Wow you sure don't seem to like any active progress in the land of Linux. Sorry but I think you are showing symptoms of Metathesiophobia

>Corporate tied code
No it's licensed under GPL. Don't like it? Fork it, release a better version. Stop maintaining the code, because that's what you are used to: sloth progress

>it's better becuz it moves fast and is bloated monolithic shitware

why not just contribute to Windows? you seem to have their mindset down

>monolithic shitware
Seems like someone doesn't use Linux

>why not contribute to windows
I used to

Shill time!

you can seperate out all the ingredients for spaghetti bolognese too, but at some point it stops being spaghetti bolognese and just a bunch of shit you wouldn't want to eat by itself.

Systemd might be nicely seperated out, but you can't actually take bits away and have it still work.

I don't see how anyone can defend systemd after the comments about how it should be web enabled.

...

nice

...

>neatly separated
Thank god the 69 fucking binaries that are needed to run an init script are "neatly separated".

I love eating shit, that's why I love to run systemd on all my mission critical machines.

It's so well designed that they have to serialise its state regularly just in case it crashes if you stare at it for too long.

Thank you for Correcting The Record on systemd, I am now a #PotteringMissile

>conspiracy theorist
Confirmed for CIA maymay
zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-23/1967-he-cia-created-phrase-conspiracy-theorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge
Thanks for proving systemd is a pile of shit

>Calling me Lennart won't help you with anything.
Shut up Lennart

Hey I am Lennart. I am paid by the NSA and Linus works with me in the NSA head quarters located at washington. We watch you masturbate to chinese cartoons everyday. We even employed your mom and dad to spy on you. There are 16 spycams in your basement where you live. Laden is alive. Hambergers can see the future. Obama is an Alien. Systemd is our home serveilence system. We hired shills to market systemd in Cred Forums/g/. You know too much so you should shut your mouth.

Stop resisting otherwise we'll poison you to death.

You are warned.

Systemd kernel and bootloader when?
Desktop environment when?

>Professional sysadmins are actually keen on reduced downtimes during maintenance windows. Think about it.
This is the stupidest shit ever.
Upstart already was fast.
Heck, a Linux Server if you boot up an Ubuntu 6.06 for example, will boot under 5-10 seconds.

5 or 10 fucking seconds.
Jesus Fucking Christ, that's a lot of time!

> to use
Like what do you use it for?

what the FUCK?!

Upstart worked mighty fine, there is nothing wrong with it. But I don't see why distros didn't adopt Upstart, but immediately started adopting Systemd.

It's just worrying.

>How NOT to write system critical code that needs to be audited
It's like he WANTS to introduce backdoors

Same question I've always had as well user.

Did you ever USE upstart? They had a fantastic GUIDE BOOK written for it. I wish I had known it better under the hood cause at least in presentation and user-facingness it was quite pleasant to work with.

Of course I was using a meme-machine with gentoo at the time so that was going to be short lived no matter what.

Upstart stops daemons with kill -9.

- Try to use this:

void foo() {
}

instead of this:

void foo()
{
}

But it is OK if you do not.

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

That is some strict coding style!
What the fuck?!

>A FUCKING WEBSERVER BUNDLED IN AN INIT
Just end your life senpai.

Of course, Ubuntu used it for quite a while, so all Ubuntu derivatives also had it. I wrote my services on it, used on Desktop and Server. I still have nothing against it even today.

It was an init server with parallel service starting, dependencies, it was able to analyze boot times too, yet it retained the classic style.

So I just don't know.
It had a strong company behind it (not that you ever needed that, Debian had an init system totally free and open source that worked, Gentoo has one), and you know it was there.

But somehow Red Hat and Poottering came along and every distro suddenly did a real hard push to adopt it. Even when KMS came along and stuff like that, distros took time, they experimented and whatnot.

There was nothing like that now.

And systemd kills processes by default if you log off. Though, what can you do if you issue a service a stop, and it does not stop? -9 is needed if you reboot, you just gotta kill it in the end...

>Just face it, Systemd in Linux is the future.
I agree, which is why I switched to FreeBSD. Joke is on you NSA.

Jesus fucking Christ...

Nice meme pajeet, thanks for admitting it's one guy shilling the entire thread.

Gentoo is not bad either.
A simple web server, a service server, vm host, and so on are all very easy to set up.
Heck, even a desktop, like:
1) add the cores into make.conf
2) add a very few useflags
3) use genkernel
4) wait 4-10 hours

No problem. The power of GPL will always protect me.

No worries NSA. Hope you enjoy your shill points.

Hey, smart people! Can someone here crack my wpa2 handshake? I'm hopeless..

I don't understand the need to defend or rebuke systemd. People have move on and so should Cred Forums.

You do realize that any project worth their salt (including systemd) are compiling with -Wmisleading-indentation set to error right?

There's no way that these issues would go unnoticed by the compiler and worrying about them in 2016 makes you look like a dinosaur.

>worrying about them in 2016 makes you look like a dinosaur.

yeah.
goto fail;

totally dinosaur.

kek
systemd bootloader is a neat idea actually. Makes more sense

Calling people old doesn't really work as a defense.

Posted by EditorDavid on Saturday October 01, 2016 @07:34PM from the 51-character-exploits dept.
An anonymous reader writes:
System administrator Andrew Ayer has discovered a potentially critical bug in systemd which can bring a vulnerable Linux server to its knees with one command. "After running this command, PID 1 is hung in the pause system call. You can no longer start and stop daemons. inetd-style services no longer accept connections. You cannot cleanly reboot the system." According to the bug report, Debian, Ubuntu, and CentOS are among the distros susceptible to various levels of resource exhaustion. The bug, which has existed for more than two years, does not require root access to exploit.

linux.slashdot.org/story/16/10/01/2155209/multiple-linux-distributions-affected-by-crippling-bug-in-systemd

> I'm not a dinosaur, look at this bug from 2014!
Ok guy.

systemd is life systemd is love

No, but it does work as an insult.

>It's not just an init system anymore, but the basic userspace building block to build an OS from
i.e it's cancer. Thanks for trying, shill.

>Can't read a full post
neo-Cred Forums, everyone

DELET THIS

>worrying about bugs that popped up time and time again for the last few years makes you old
>[CURRENT YEAR] maymay
thanks for proving us right.

>Ok guy.
You're a fucking nigger :^)

>bawww he didn't read my copy pasta
>muh systemd building blocks
>muh retarded analogies
>turning init into the fucking operating system
>doesn't understand what the kernel is for
>systemd will have its own kernel soon, which you can use to build a fucking OS out of
Get the fuck off Cred Forums Lennart, we've had enough of your shit.

Are you 14?

neatly separated then sewn together so they can't work without extensive modification instead of being able to swap out parts with one command like non-retarded systems

Myth 5:
Succumb the the system. You're just a user. You have no control.

tansmission

What's so bad about systemd though?

Okay guys, I did it. I installed runit on arch and I'm currently in the process of removing systemd from my system. Had a bit of an issue with pulseaudio throwing a fit but that's all fixed. Just needed to remove a few of PA's systemd modules. Tbqh I'm amazed everything went as smoothly as it did. And everything seems a lot more transparent. Before, I just knew "systemd initializes the system," now it's all laid out in very simple shell scripts. I've never done much shell scripting but even I'm able to understand these. Everything can be controlled and monitored either through special files in each service's directory or by using sv which seems kind of like systemctl. Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything from starting services to changing my hostname, locale, or time zone.

How is Reddit for people who use certain software?

My system has no photo viewer or video player, because it's installed from a minimal installer.
To paraphrase you: "why are you on Cred Forums if you don't know that?"

>Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything
True, now you just need other binaries like your text editor to do everything.

You apparently went through an immense effort to replace something with something that works identical, just because other people told you so. Either that, or you're a legitimate retard who doesn't see that he ended up with the same thing in a different package. A shitty, less supported and less mainstream package.

Software has bugs?! STOP THE PRESSES.
Fixed already.

>immense effort
no

>because other people told you so
no

>same thing in a different package
no

>A shitty, less supported and less mainstream package

>You have to only use the most mainstream stuff! Drink Coke! use Windows
>everything else is just a shitty, less supported and less mainstream version
no

>without systemd its the same anyway so use systemd or you're retarded.
wat

You do realize linux is about using your computer the way you want right?
you don't seem to grasp that concept.

Nonsense, Linux is about Red Hat selling more workstations to the NSA.

> (You)
>>Overall I like this a lot better than needing a *ctl binary to do everything
>True, now you just need other binaries like your text editor to do everything.
Which is 500 times more sane than having binaries for every tiny task.

>You apparently went through an immense effort
Lemme stop you there my man. All I did was install arch-runit and create a 1 line shell script service for lightdm. If that's immense effort you probably need to just kill yourself.
>to replace something with something that works identical,
Wrong. Works better. I know how this works. I can just look at runit's scripts and see exactly what's up. Systemd? For the past month since I installed its taken several minutes to boot because "a start job is running for incredibly long uuid that you cant copy, good luck tracking down the issue faggot"
>just because other people told you so.
I've used runit before when i tried out void Linux.
>Either that, or you're a legitimate retard who doesn't see that he ended up with the same thing in a different package.
Nope, this is better. I can feel the Unix philosophy coursing through my veins now.
>A shitty
systemdcuck detected
>less supported and less mainstream package.
If you care about mainstream and support just go back to Windows.

With systemd I can plug in a usb stick and have it mount easily on a base system without having to edit config files. Good enough for me.

systemd swallowed udisks?

systemd already has a bootloader.

Why do systemdcucks act like every feature on the planet is exclusive to them? What will they do when they find out that other inits even have features that systemd doesn't?

>But he installed runit! On arch! That's not supported!
And I'm using EFISTUB to boot without GRUB or systemd-boot. Anything that isn't mainstream triggers Cred Forums's archfags.

You realize that is also in the kernel coding style as well.
Do not unnecessarily use braces where a single statement will do.

if (condition)
action();

and

if (condition)
do_this();
else
do_that();

Yeah but at least the kernel isn't as monolithic or un-unixlike oh wait it is

Everyone just needs to admit that they have no argument against systemd besides hipster elitism.