What's Cred Forums's opinion on these coding bootcamps?

you misunderstood the language.

looked over means perused, or considered.

I shouldn't have used looked over twice in different meanings. Looked over as in read in the first usage, looked over as in passed over in the second usage

there is no royal road to computer science. no shortcuts. no easy way.

to me, as a hiring manager with 10 years of experience, and a masters in CS, and a bachelors in mathematics from Georgia Tech, the coding bootcamp certificates just spell laziness to me.

>have bootcamper at work
>knows ruby, rails, js, bootstrap
>no idea how to structure DB for performance
>no idea what big O is
>never heard of von neumann
>never heard of lisp

bootcamps can work. but the odds are against. you have to be responsible for your own education after you finish bootcamp because your scope will be very narrow. you need to read books on algorithm, database, operating system, software engineering all kind of stuff, and you will have to prove yourself much harder than somebody with a CS degree.

what's happening now is that there's a bubble, so all the bootcampers will get hired to codemonkey because there aren't enough CS grads to go around and they can do the job that's within their scope well enough (writing CRUD website). After the burst their prospect is much worse, it's like teaching a person to play complicated song on a piano by telling them to memorise key sequence, they won't have the knowledge to play any other song thus becoming a one trick pony.

I have heard they can be very rigorous, so ostensibly they could compare to a couple years of college. Keep in mind that many universities have low standards for performance.

That being said, you will get a much more well-rounded education by taking four years of varied coursework.

I would be wary of employment claims. Try to find a third-party verification.

Just like anything else, you would get out of it what you put in. If you spend those 12 weeks busting your ass and working all day every day, you could have a good shot and landing a comfy and well-paying job.

the guy writing that is a retard. looked over can mean 'ignored' or 'glossed over' and he added to the confusion as "looked over half the time" has the same meaning for whichever meaning of "looked over" you use.

honestly the guy who wrote this is a fucking moron

>go to university for Comp Sci
>do OK in classes, but mostly only do school-related projects
>graduate with 3.5 gpa
>no internships, no big side projects
>just some good scholarships and a hackathon to put on my resume
>now too scared to apply to places because I feel I can't actually code

what's out there for me, mates? will someone even want me for a junior position or am I shit out of luck?

are you dumb? you seriously think you can absorb enough knowledge, experience and develop proper habits in a 12 week "boot camp"? If you were that motivated to learn you would have done it yourself already using online and self teaching resources. $12000 in 12 weeks is a fucking cash grab. And their "certificates" are fucking worthless. GIMMICKS each and every last one.

fake it till you make it. just spam your application any where hoping it will stick. work on self-education and projects on the side and apply yourself.

translates to in real life

>I interned at an indie videogame company
>yes it was software related
>stop looking at me like that
>no I will not get on my knees
>a..user..what...what are you doing??

yeah nobody cares. bootcamps are gay, and only exist to make money for their owners.

you could say the same for uni, except many uni's have a respectable reputation, because they teach you what you need to know. bootcamps don't have such reputation, because as has been thoroughly elaborated upon in this thread is the fact that they teach you to become a one trick pony.

"Coding" is over. It was a fad for Starbucks-drinkers. For ~2 years, it has been very hip and fashionable to go to a "coding bootcamp" and take selfies with HTML. 2 years is enough time for anyone to figure out that this is a total and complete waste of time. This is why the Starbucks-drinkers themselves have recently started distancing themselves from coding bootcamps.

"Coding" is not programming. Anyone can code. A monkey can code. It takes mental effort to go from a useless "coder" to a genuine programmer, and Starbucks-drinkers are not capable of putting in mental effort that goes beyond drag-and-drop. Programming means taking the time to solve a particular problem. You cannot cut-and-paste or drag-and-drop a solution to a unique problem, so Starbucks-drinkers cannot program. Cut off their internet and a simple for loop will stump them, which is why the hilariously easy FizzBuzz test is so good at weeding out HTML-selfie-takers.

Coding is over. Coding bootcamps are over. Programming lives on. You want to learn programming? Stop taking HTML-selfies and pick up a programming book.

>If you spend those 12 weeks busting your ass and working all day every day, you could have a good shot and landing a comfy and well-paying job.

yeah, the .00000001% chance that happens is exactly the kind of predatory hope the marketing teams give anyone ignorant enough to consider these things.

Wisdom from falcon

freecodecamp.com

Codecademy.com

Will teach you exactly the same shit as these bootcamps and cost you nothing.

At least with freecodecamp they get you working on a project for a not-for-profit too.

If a CS degree isn't an option, these are the next best thing (and a fucking *killer* portfolio)

maybe that's why they exist; for a way for the mediocre to still be mediocre but get paid for having a specific skill they wanted and maybe they like it and have no problem getting paid 30-50k a year. They're not wasting time in school learning general education and other courses belonging to a larger blanket of skills, because they want just one.
It works out, they will never be the competition in the real world, and you will always have your university to back you and your coworkers along with your higher standard of what you want at your own place of business.

>wisdom
>muslim

pick one and only

You should go to real university if you want to take computer science.

The bootcamp's are designed for people who already know how to program and wish to take 'software engineering' meaning learn style, bullshit like "agile", modern development tools, ect. It's shilled as for beginners but it's not for beginners.

Maybe if you read something like SICP first, or had a solid grasp of C and how it abstracts system memory, or you had a math degree then a bootcamp would be helpful otherwise for that kind of money it's cheaper to go to university in the long run.

At anytime the whole webdev bubble could pop, and then they will want only Sr. developers or people with degrees. Go take artificial intelligence and parallel algorithms for 4 years instead it's money better spent.

kinda mean to call yourself a fucking moron?

r u butthurt at your failure?

l2english k?

Pretty much every single thing taught at the college level can be learned on your own through books. There are very few people that are changing the world through their college education. The outliers that go to places like Harvard, Stanford, etc were either already geniuses that were going to do it anyway or they had their way paved for them from their parents being smart/already having it paved for them.

College is mostly about choosing a specialty and proving that you actually can do it. Bootcamps can sometimes circumvent that, because they can show that you're a middle of the road programmer and you can make that CRUD application the same as everyone else with a CS bachelor's degree.

>He uses C when he isn't making a cutting edge embedded system

You still have to test yourself too. Every university has an open calendar/schedule, you can usually go on the class page and download the previous years exams and homework to test your own understanding of the material.

Ask anybody with a degree in math. They will tell you all the times they thought they knew something inside out and then discovered they didn't know it when they were tested. It's easy to fool yourself into thinking "I know this" unless you text your knowledge outside the book exercises.

I'm a typical atheist 4channer. My uncle is Islamic. He counseled me through my depression and kept me from killing myself. I know you're just shitposting but if you aren't then for your sake I hope you give all people around you a second chance, whatever they may be

Going to college to learn to program is foolish.
So is going to a "coding bootcamp" to learn computer science.

It comes down to what you want out of it. What do you want to learn? What sort of work do you want to be doing?

in college CS degrees you learn a fair bit of math and the physics of physical computer components. That's a bit harder to learn on your own.

>How is this even a question?
The correct answer is NEITHER dumbass! You have the internet. The tools you need are fucking free! Get some fucking discipline and go build something, put it in your portfolio, and get hired. It is that simple.

>maths and physics are difficult to learn online
Not at all. There's heaps of resources for both from top tier colleges free of charge.

>be mediocre but get paid for having a specific skill they wanted and maybe they like it

>implying they actually have that skill after a coding bootcamp

If a person is motivated enough to learn themselves a CS college degree in 4 years without actually attending college and having deadlines set for them, then they are pretty much motivated enough to do anything.

But why learn all that stuff out of college if it doesn't give you a B.S. at the end of it, and no network connections? If someone is motivated enough to learn all of that with no immediate professor-deadline-driven pressure, then they can do pretty much whatever they want in life. Wouldn't their path be easier if they just took out some loans and got the degree in 4 years?

The alternative is teaching yourself for a few years, working shit jobs for years until you have enough experience to get to a less shit job, then getting told you have to get a degree if you want to go higher on the payscale.

If a person is motivated enough the degree is a waste of their time. Over half the major tech billionaires are dropouts user. Taking a "shit job," as a programmer still makes a good wage and you can get started years ahead of the college crowd.

>seriously considering a coding bootcamp
Pic very much related, it's an article from one of these (in Norwegian, sadly) about a guy who did a bootcamp and net studies and pic related is how he writes code now.

noroff.no/nyheter/it-sikkerhet/407-christoffer-programmerte-blackjack-i-c-c

every tech billionaire was just the right person at the right time though, I'd say that is a bad example. If there was a guaranteed way to be a billionaire then there would be millions of billionaires. And plenty of people are very motivated but not super smart, work very hard and still only make $40k a year.

One surefire way to make a decent living is to get a STEM degree. I don't know the numbers, maybe a guy who learns a couple languages in highschool will be ahead of his college-bound CS peers in 10 years, but I don't know if you know the numbers either. However getting a CS college degree is still a very viable course of action.

>muslim kept you from committing sudoku
Just another reason why they should be exterminated desu

depends on the person , if you are a social retard then dont expect to clime the ladder that fast.
everybody will pass you .
its all about motivation and the will to succeed.

I did a bootcamp called Hack Reactor that cost 17k and does all javascript.

When I graduated I did their 3 month program where I was essentially a postgrad that helped the company and got paid for it. Once I completed that I got a remote job at a software consultant shop making 70 an hour which translates to about 130k-140k a year depending on the hours you work.

My pay was a lot higher than most of the other people that graduated with me, but there were a few who got jobs with comparable salaries. The best part is that I live in a low cost area and get to make that much. I've been working there for a little over a year now.

Have to agree with this. We have 30+ year olds doing the same work as me, a junior dev

I'm kind of lazy

I'd rather do less work and get paid a nice amount than do more work and get paid a very nice amount

I'll be one of these cunts in the future

kek

The very numbers we all use are arabic... I know you are probably american and it is difficult for you to do this at the moment... but keep your mind open, they are feeding you a lot of memes to keep you stupid and muslim=bad is the biggest of them all.

I want to believe.
Not the OP but thanks user, you filled me with hope.

Both college and bootcamps are bullshit.
However, you should go to college and try to get a degree.
In my experience, the stuff they teach in colleges is pretty useless and entirely different from the skills that employers want. Thing is, having a computer engineering degree can be very beneficial for your resume.

>Christoffer produsert og kodet et Blackjack-spill som har imponert lærerne på Noroff Nettstudier.
Translation:
Christoffer have produced and coded a Blackjack-game that has impressed the teachers on Noroff Nettstudier

>paying to learn how to program

Depends where you are. If you are a murritard and university costs you a shitload of money this might be a good option.

If university is free just go have fun there for 4 years.

Jesus Christ

Bootcamps are desperation scams. The employment and salary numbers from any type of program are always fudged. My old office had a coding school above it and there were two types of people who went there 1) desperate people with liberal arts degrees 2) video game dorks who didn't go to college.

Ask yourself this. Why are you learning to code and what is the goal?

If your goal is to become a software developer, then a code academy won't teach you enough information in that short of a time period. A coding bootcamp might get your foot in the door somewhere, but you're going to be a low tier code monkey no better than Pajeet in Bangalore. You probably won't have the background knowledge to get far in the field. Maybe you can use your code monkey experience to eventually transition somewhere else or you can learn all sorts of additional CS skills independently, but the deck is going to be stacked against you when it comes to career advancement in tech.

If you're someone who wants a more regular business job, then you're probably better off using a site like code academy to learn something like basic html/css. Basic web tools can make more handy in the office as they can help you fix shit without having to call in tech support. If you're trying to be more business with a dash a tech, then you're better off learning some data skills like advanced Excel, R, and SQL. R is easy to pick up if you've taken any stats courses and businesses, for some reason, are really impressed when people can do shit like make pivot tables in Excel.

Holy fucking shit I suddenly feel better about these hours spent learning by myself.

Seriously I dont get why anyone would pay to learn this shit , programming languages is one of these things you can literally find all of the information about online so anyone selling that information to you is a hypocrite and you are a retard for buying it.

Professional programmer here.

What this fag says I got a degree in CompSci purely because in my country (England), it's unheard of to get a job without a degree, it opens so many doors it's stupid to not have a degree. Though I did take my degree long before they made fees mandatory.

If I started down that road from scratch, I would just learn from Youtube and start at a low-grade in some IT company. Fuck paying £27000 for stupid fucking feminist-factory-university fees (on top of your fucking living expenses). I feel for you kids these days, my little bro is in the same boat and he's pretty worried about his future.