BASED THEO FUCKING BLOWS SJW RUST OUT OF THE GODDAMN FUCKING WATER

>For instance, rust cannot even compile itself on i386 at present time because it exhausts the address space.
Wow, it's like languages with strong safety guarantees and opportunities for optimizations require complex code analysis!

>you need at least 4GB of RAM just to compile the most basic aspect of your language

Theo is absolutely correct about this being a pajeet-tier webdev thing.

By that logic, OpenBSD isn't truly portable because it can't compile on an Intel 8086 (the original x86 processor). Don't get me wrong, I think OpenBSD is great, but you can't expect all future software to run on ancient legacy hardware like i386.

You need to explain this.

When he says 'build itself', he's talking about a compiler. OpenBSD is not a compiler, it's a fucking OS.
Imagine if gcc needed a fucking supercomputer to compile

Oh, I myself disagree with him, even though I wrote that paraphrasing. I totally agree with you.
Truly, I hope that at some point, even amd64 is considered legacy, while risc-v is the normal architecture for desktop use.

Rust does run on 32-bit x86 though.

Please explain why Rust needs to compile on i386, in the context of OpenBSD, an OS which is mainly used on servers

>java shitlang
>sensible

gcc and clang can't compile themselves on an 8086 either. A modern x86-64 processor is hardly a supercomputer by today's standards. At some point you need to drop support for legacy processors.

Rust does compile for i386.

That's not possible if it needs more than 4GB of ram.

>an OS which is mainly used on servers
I don't think you understand what OpenBSD is about. How about reading about the project's philosophy first?

Academically, if you run software you haven't compiled yourself, you show you trust the person who compiled it for you. In such a situation, it means all people who solely have access to x86 machines trust someone else for Rust binaries.
They should move to 64 bit already, but that's a separate issue.

You can cross-compile, brainlet.

I mean what's the point of Rust? I'm not an expert programmer by any means but whatever Rust is doing C++/C can do well enough and both languages have plenty libraries, too. I hear people say that Rust is safer but if you can't manage memory yourself then you might as well use Java.

Does the philosophy include running/compiling on an 8086 processor?

That's if you have a cross compiler, building those requires special configuration steps and is twice as hard

>I don't think you understand what OpenBSD is about
Like this matters. I understand why he doesn't feel the need to cater to the whims of the users, and has no control how the OS is used. But if he wanted to focus on supporting deprecated hardware, he probably should have never left NetBSD.

It does include running self-contained on a few legacy architectures, since that's beneficial in several ways.

>Rust does run on 32-bit x86 though
that's different than the process of compiling it's compiler toolchain. keep lurking, adults are talking

You're moving the goalposts, the fact of the matter is rust does run on 32-bit x86. Just look here, there are many 32-bit builds available: static.rust-lang.org/dist/
>if you can't manage memory yourself then you might as well use Java
The "managed code" meme turned out to be a poor solution to C's drawbacks. And memory management isn't as easy as you suggest, even experienced, competent, knowledgeable, seasoned developers commit buffer overflows constantly in C. It's just a bad language.

>if you can't manage memory yourself
so literally a large chunk of C/C++ developers then. There's a reason why FireFox leaks memory like a motherfucker, and why Mozilla was the one to back rust.

I was replying to posters who were implying it can't run on that platform, not that it can't build itself on that platform. Adults read the entire conversation, kid.

He got kicked out of netBSD because their other devs are retatds
There is even a quote of one netBSD guy years later saying they fucked themselves over by running theo out
And where is netBSD now?

On toasters.

>It's just a bad language.
I guess that's true but imho Rust isn't much better.
Yup, not a language for brainlets like me.

marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=151605305629876&w=2

I thought this was the most informative of the mail.

I was about to post that
People dont realize that with competent programmers (which openBSD is completely full of), C and Rust's only difference is speed

>There's a reason why FireFox leaks memory like a motherfucker

Because Firefox devs are highly incompetent? Modern C++ offers multiple memory management solutions, you can even add a full fledged GC into your C++ program if you're pajeet enough.

>supporting deprecated hardware
so you didn't read about the philosophy then. It's less about actual "support", and more of a litmud test to ensure code bloat is kept to a minimum. Nobody actually gives a shit about the handful of i386 users, but if the code can't run on what was a perfectly viable computer less than 20yrs ago, it better have a damn good reason for being there.

>he probably should have never left NetBSD
and then what, sacrifice all the improvements OpenBSD has made because NetBSD wouldn't merge them? You're just talking out of your ass.

Exactly
Like 90% of people writing code are incompetent as shit when it comes to security, they just apply whatever they learned in CS or on their own, and dont even get started on Pajeets

>Because Firefox devs are highly incompetent?
Was there someone capable left working at mozilla after 2014?

nobody said they weren't incompetent user, you just have to accept that that's the case for most C++ devs.

Just read this, it sums everything perfectly in my opinion
over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/08

BASED
I'm on Debian but OpenBSD looks wonderful

>I'm on Debian but OpenBSD looks wonderful
you should dump debian right now and go for it

yeah, the transition is totally smooth

Please explain why a programming language needs >4GB to compile. I have rarely went over 4GB when running make -j 4. If this Rust can't be set up to compile with the entire address space of i386 then it isn't ready for prime time yet.

It's a backdoor way to insert a CoC into any project's cunt

>It's a backdoor way to insert a CoC into any project's cunt

Cred Forums was rigth about CoC of Rust and shills

Fucking CoC is the cancer of the entirety of FOSS

calm down Cred Forums

>OpenBSD
>mainly used on servers
If it's a good OS it will be used
But nothing on the project goals specify servers
>openbsd.org/goals.html
Just read those goals and tell me if there is another OS as based as OpenBSD
Truly the last good OS

Not Cred Forums, and you should at least be a BIT aware that when semantics are more important than code quality, is when things go south
I like openBSD, ive used it for a decade and it is as stable as they get
I wouldn't want that ruined over some retards sense of """justice"""

Rust developers need learn No means No

pretty much, though it's a bit outdated now, since it doesn't include FeministBSD's Social Justice Coding design philosophy.

I fear what might happen to openBSD after Theo is gone

>Hah GCC needs more 1MB to run. It's not unreasonable for a compiler to use more than 4096MB!

don't worry, unlike with Linux, there are plenty of based developers on the OpenBSD team to go around.

I've seen it said here that Linus has already picked his successor. Do we know anything about his leadership style?

>Kotlin
>cross platform
JVM is literally the least portable thing in existence

>Linus will die in your lifetime
Do you think people will jump ship to BSD in droves afterwards?
Or will things be too fucked by then?

>Don't get me wrong, I think OpenBSD is great, but you can't expect all future software to run on ancient legacy hardware like i386.
Intels ME runs on an embedded i486

>And where is netBSD now?
Where is OpenBSD now?

The forces that look to tear apart free software projects from the inside don't scare most people away. That's how they operate. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. You won't see a a huge coordinated movement to the BSDs. If the project starts to turn the software to shit you will see a slow migration as different camels can't support different numbers of straws before failing.

A good portion of Linux users are just going to ride it out. Look how many people on this board put up with Windows to this day. Ever since Ubuntu bundled amazon software with their distro I've known I should have a plan. Ever since Firefox started it's shenanigans I've known I should have a plan. Firefox plan has already went in to action due to the universal backdoor.

On all my machines for one

Even OpenBSD songs are good
How can an OS be so based?

Rust is far from a pajeet brainlet webdev language tho

youtube.com/watch?v=klWEvjIFweA
There unironically isn't a better OS

Chill out faggot from Cred Forums is a free speech zone

then why did Rust hire Ashley Williams after her NodeJS scandal? :^)

I had no idea of this "incident" and omg, this is crazy
Clearly the Code-of-Conduct is code-word for "discriminate against all white straight males"
One more reason to hate rust I guess

Social support

FreeBSD just adopted the Geek Feminism CoC.

wasn't that old as FUCK and then they kicked that bitch out anyways?

I hear Rust foundation is replacing all the white male coders with rainbow haired black genderless webdevs with purple hair.

Great

yeah, that's how bad it is. They had to remove the line about specifically stating white men couldn't make complaints but never actually clarified a new interpretation.

What about not having a CoC

but then how do you witchhunt people you don't like for vague political labels while simultaneously #KillAllMen'ing?

>#KillAllMen'ing
Hey you also means #KillAllJewMens

NO, ONLY WRONGTHINKERS.

Reminder that Redox OS, a microkernel + OS, is itself unused by Rust programmers. That speaks volumes alone, because it Rustfags had any conviction, they're be using Redox.

Instead they beg everyone else to write their code in rust lol

easy, be stuck in 90s (both mentally and technologically)

>BASED FOO BTFO BAR OUT OF THE GODDAMN FUCKING WATER
>HOW CAN BAR EVER POSSIBLY START TRYING TO REMOTELY EVEN BEGIN RECOVERING?!?!?
>2017-12-03
Look, I agree with the lad, but this is old shit and there's no need to embarrass yourself with such MLG-tier posts tho

The battle of the irrelevant.

OpenBSD is not really used anywhere, user. I agree with their aim and all that, but they really have no presence anywhere. (sadly)

unfortunately no, the FreeBSD committee has been up to more SJW nonsense again recently as well:
reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/7xapx2/freebsds_new_geek_feminismbased_code_of_conduct/

reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/7y43fk/censorship_on_rfreebsd/

Bionic is a distant fork and their ssh used everywhere. This is all the fame they can have thanks to their narrow mindedness

Stop infecting technology you piece of shit, we all know all of this is just to destroy projects

>rainbow haired
>with purple hair

I hate freebsd, the cuck license also George Neville-Neil is fucking liar, but they still don't deserve all the shit because some crappy text pasted from a site that triggers some manchildren. Also fuck back to plebbit with your bullshit.

>fame > good code with good security
their """narrow mindedness""" is the reason OpenBSD's a solid piece of tech in the first place you imbecile

>didn't read the core team's responses and defense of that bullshit
you're the one that needs to go back /r/eddtard

Its nowhere near usable. It just became capable of running the rust compiler like a month ago.

media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8968-are_all_bsds_created_equally
The only solid part of them is the hipocrisy.

...

Maybe he's talking about the armpit hair

>implying that is bad

...

>everything that disagrees with them is nazi
truly mental illness

>There has been no attempt to move the smallest parts of the ecosystem, to provide replacements for base POSIX utilities.

Is this true though? Why does something like github.com/uutils/coreutils not qualify?

You have to go back.

>links to a pajeet talk
>on a non-free website

naturally rainbow, dyed purple

This happens when your arguments are based on retarded tabloid trash, like Lunduke.

>le everyone I don't like is Cred Forums meme
you need to go back

You really need to rethink your life
Retarded leftists are making Cred Forums look good, and that's saying something

@64796840
@64796878
@64796892
>hoarding (You)s from the turd

I wish the entirety of the world could be stuck in the 90s forever
The 2000s onwards really took a giant dump on most of us

>Where is OpenBSD now?
On QuakeCon.
youtube.com/watch?t=5m17s&v=mOv62lBdlXU

>haha I was only pretending to be retarded

A decade when even a shitty virus could trash a HDD? Yeah, it was nice. :^)

So you used to use windows in the 90s?
Bad decision, id stick with Unix

Hoarding shit is not healthy. Maybe you should stop hoarding chromosomes too.

>snowflakes throwing tantrums crying about virtual hugs is totally ok
>but pointing out that literally no other project has such guidelines is now "tabloid trash"
are you even listening to what you're saying? how is it possible to be this badly in denial?

>pf is openbsd only
>le superior networking

>No, not all BSDs are created equal
>because OpenBSD clearly came out on top against all the other BSDs, and Linux
>tfw user didn't even watch the talk he linked to

>their software is everywhere
>literally every single Unix system out there ships with OpenSSH
>LibreSSL is slowly replacing OpenSSL everywhere
>all smartphones in the world ship with arc4random
>LLVM is pretty much the de facto compiler backend everywhere, and clang is ubiquitous - it's the default compiler in half the Unices, it's the official compiler of several SDKs (like the PS4's), and it's used in several high profile IDEs (like C++ Builder)
>OpenBGPD, OpenOSPFD, CARP and PF are an integral part of virtually the entire Internet's infrastructure

>they really have no presence anywhere

Its funny cause the same people are arguing the GNU bullshit

Why

do

you

type

like

this?

Imagine not knowing you're the punch line to the jokes.

It triggers phoneposters.

>In OpenBSD there is a strict requirement that base builds base.
>So we cannot replace any base utility, unless the toolchain to build it is in the base.
what does this even mean

>George Neville-Neil is fucking liar
More information?
>but they still don't deserve all the shit because some crappy text pasted from a site that triggers some manchildren
Oh it's just a leftist-corporate shill trying to bargain with us. Fuck you.

I meant OpenBSD itself, the fucking operating system, in case you forgot that - this thing - actually exists. Good job with reading comprehension.

An OS can be a bootstrap for a new version of an OS or itself.

So in order to add or replace anything, the tools to do so have to already exist in the current version?

>So in order to add or replace anything to base, the tools to do so have to already exist in the current version of base?
FTFY

And yes.

If they want a portable safer-than-c language freepascal is a safe bet.

Most servers and PS4s in the world, iirc

>most servers run OpenBSD
u wot m8

>
w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system/all

>PS4
That's FreeBSD, not OpenBSD.

I do want to make it clear that my link doesn't even fucking register OpenBSD as a server OS--it's less than 0.1% of all public web servers.

Because I'm an old man and that's how I typed back in the 90s and won't change for you

>JVM not written in rust
no thanks.

>all servers are web servers
You're a fucking moron.

>implying I'm implying it

theo just wishes people have something to show before going "muh rust"

Well said. Dumb assed kids and their "reddit spacing" complaints need to shut their mouths

Where did I state that this was all servers? I specifically said web servers. You think OpenBSD suddenly makes a giant fucking comeback in some other server market? That OpenBSD is secretly running every other fucking computer known to man? There's a pattern here, you fucking retard.

>CoC
I feel back for FOSS guys. They assumed that sociopaths wouldn't be attracted to FOSS because there's no money to be made. They never anticipated the kind of hipster sjws infesting their ranks who seek social domination over all "ethical" fields.

>I don't know what a biased sample is
>I see patterns in biased samples and I extrapolate them
>I am very intelligent
I'll repeat: you are a fucking moron.

>OpenBSD is secretly running every other fucking computer known to man
Not every other fucking computer, but there are little computers everywhere that go under the radar because they're infrastructural or taken for granted. You've never heard of them, you're too stupid. Things like routers, switches, firewalls, IDPSes, PBXes, access points, repeaters, embedded devices, standalone systems, etc., etc., etc...

They have to be able to compile themselves from base, including if base was the new version.

Thus if you want to add a CoC-laden shit language, it has to be able to compile itself or have a bootstrap that can compile itself from previous versions on all supported platforms.

OpenBSD still supports 32-bit x86. Thus, no Rust (thankfully) ever.

ABLOO ABLOO ABLOO

Cisco IOS runs modified Linux
Most PBXes are applications run on top of other OSes a la CallManager.
Junos OS runs FreeBSD
DNOS is FreeBSD
VyOS is Linux
Pfsense is FreeBSD

I would fucking love for you to point out a single thing that runs on OpenBSD. Because I genuinely can't. God you TDR dick suckers are insufferable.

>You're moving the goalposts
YOU are the one moving the goalposts, we're talking about compiling Rust ON i386, not only FOR i386.

back in 'le oldfag days, if you didn't your post would end up with fucked formatting

because of how javascript worked on Cred Forums

:^)

also this used to be a thing with typewriters and adding spaces for revisions / comments by your peers

You are a fucking retard, user, we went through this already. Also, Theo is nitpicking hard to justify that his OS isn't compatible with cross compiled binary.
No one uses OpenBSD.

>No one uses OpenBSD
Are you sure about that? Because says otherwise.

OpenBSD is compatible with cross compatible binary. Many packages are cross compiled.
BUT NOT IN FUCKING BASE, YOU GODDAMN DUMBFUCK!

See

Right, do you use OpenBSD? Because I don't see anyone using it, not even in routers.

Now now, getting TRIGGERED won't help. It doesn't matter if the package is on base. And no one cares if Rust isn't in OpenBSD's base. At the end of the day, Theo is just a bitter fuckwit who keeps alienating his OS from modern langauges/packages.

>TDR gets to act like an asshole on the internet so why shouldn't it.

Next you'll say "I was only pretending to be retarded."

>complaining about people behaving like assholes
>on Cred Forums
Go away, you don't belong in here.

Why do you think I deleted it? Misread the post IDs, was intended for as I was expecting that response.

Really feel smug about that one, huh?

A modern amd64 processor IS a supercomputer in objective terms.

>>Are they POSIX compliant? No.
weakest of the arguments I've ever seen. Granted, stuff like ripgrep is not POSIX compliant, but please don't act like OpenBSD does not accept POSIX incompatible packages.

I use ripgrep instead of grep, because it's simply faster.

the question is why should openbsd suddenly up the requirements for compilation to >4gb just to include your pet rust programs as POSIX tool replacements?

>Theo is just a bitter fuckwit
and so the sheep finally shows it's true colors. Thanks for playing, try again next time.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO REPEAT IT?!?

NOT!

IN!

BASE!!!!

>WHY WON'T YOU USE MY 100MB CoC complain binary for cat you fucking SHITLORD!!!!
Calm down.

theo should put go in base to spite your faggot ass

>There has been no attempt to move the smallest parts of the ecosystem, to provide replacements for base POSIX utilities.
> no attempt
what is github.com/uutils/coreutils

>4Gb
Sorry?

Also what is the official "requirement for compilation" of OpenBSD?

Why exactly does it matter?

>100MB
Huh?

Let the homeless man try.

>What is POSIX compliance

> "no attempt"

LLVM is an Apple thing, not an OpenBSD thing.

rust is a fucking fat hog to compile, and on some main openbsd platforms it won't compile at all because it exceeds limits. and you want to stick tools written in this language in base? go xml a dbus, faggot.

Something OpenBSD doesn't really honour.

That's a funny way to spell University of Illinois, user.

>rust is a fucking fat hog to compile
Not anymore, apparently, they just got incremental compilation and now takes less time than C++.

>some main openbsd platforms it won't compile at all because it exceeds limits.
Right, for low-end archs you don't even need to ship the same packages.

Stop feeding the tripfag.

not rust code itself, the rust compiler you dumb cunt

>Right, for low-end archs you don't even need to ship the same packages.
right so they should ship some 1000MB rust coreutils binaries on amd64 because...????????????

STOP REPLYING TO TRIPFAGS!!!1

>because
Faster
>1000MB rust coreutils
I like the numbers you try to pull out of your ass to stay afloat in the argument.

Here's an 8 year old unresolved gcc bug:
>GCC uses a lot of RAM when compiling a large numbers of functions
>GCC 5 needs 31s and a peak of 2GB at -O0
gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=44563

do you think that openbsd is in love with gcc or something?

>unresolved
Fixed since GCC7

>The LLVM project started in 2000 at the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, under the direction of Vikram Adve and Chris Lattner. LLVM was originally developed as a research infrastructure to investigate dynamic compilation techniques for static and dynamic programming languages. LLVM was released under the University of Illinois/NCSA Open Source License,[2] a permissive free software licence. In 2005, Apple Inc. hired Lattner and formed a team to work on the LLVM system for various uses within Apple's development systems.[10] LLVM is an integral part of Apple's latest development tools for macOS and iOS.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM

LLVM started as a research project at University of Illinois, but it became a usable piece of software after Apple hired Chris Lattner to make it happen.

The Rust compiler uses LLVM as a backend, literally the same backend as the OpenBSD compiler clang

you keep spouting irrelevant trivia instead of justifying your demand to stick bloated rust tools in base.

...

...

>same compiler backend
>somehow rust is bloated
peak Cred Forums

you're being very silly if you think the rust implementation has no footprint of its own

Your entire argument regarding bloat hinges on the Rust compiler not running well on irrelevant legacy hardware like 8086. On modern hardware, there is no issue (like not even close to an issue).

>For instance, rust cannot even compile itself on i386
Neither can OpenBSD

>All CPUs compatible with the Intel 80486 or better, with Intel-compatible hardware floating point support should work.

openbsd.org/i386.html

BTFO'D

your entire argument revolves around "I want my tranny rust cat(1) in base and i don't care if that prevents some portion of openbsd's users-who-compile from being unable to compile it on their hardware"

but yeah ok you're right, everyone's running openbsd on a gaming rig just because

when theo says "i386" he's talking about x86, not that particular processor. but you knew that of course. requiring an FPU is not unreasonable. requiring 4GB of ram to compile a compiler is.

So fucking what
You guys keep spouting this bullshit over and over
Will adding rust code improve ANYTHING at all? Even if you completely ignore all the older machines running openBSD, since you dont realize some people still use fucking X200s and/or shit hardware from the early 2000s as servers
But even then.
Is it even close to implementable? Fucking write code yourself, mail it to Theo and he might give a flying fuck
Just asking that your shitty flavor of the month language is implemented by someone else who actually is getting stuff done is retarded at the very least retarded

why does it have to be in BASE you faggots

it's in the ports tree and it's fine there

"Hey, let's make a language that is horrible to learn instead of coming with some sort of stdmem library"

no one drives buggati either. doesn't mean they're shit

You've obviously never been to Dubai...

I just wrote a test program in C and in Rust that allocates 512*512*4 unsigned bytes, and then writes random values to them. I compiled both with maximum optimization (clang -Ofast and cargo run --release). The C code runs in about 0.063675 seconds, while the Rust code runs in 0.041879 seconds. I was pleasantly surprised that Rust outperforms C even on a very simple program like this. Fuck Theo the Rat.

Btw, the Rust code is running with array bounds checks, while the C code is running with raw unchecked pointer arithmetic, and the Rust code is STILL faster.

>because compiled binary runtime performance was the issue all along!
>not
learn to read rustfag. it's not like rust isn't already in the ports tree.

...

Show teh codez or we call BS.

...

It can't.

Rust is a great concept. For textbooks.

Unless someone actually writes a usable OS in it with a full-blown userland and gets it to market.

Like Android.

C/C++ has 40 years of momentum going for it. If someone thinks their shiny new language can replace all of that, they're in for a rude awakening.

See what happened to Andy Tanenbaum's MINIX even though he has perfectly logical arguments and a nice little proof of concept.

Git gud or die tryin'. Rust is headed for the latter.

>There has been no attempt to move the smallest parts of the ecosystem, to provide replacements for base POSIX utilities.

github.com/uutils/coreutils

It's a real shame Theo hasn't figured out how to work Google yet.

>reddit spacing
nice most m8. have some gold ;)

But MINIX runs on every Intel processor