Explain peronism to me. It seems like a populism but focused on social justice for poor and independence...

Peronism isn't either right or left wing, it's ''3rd position'', it's not capitalist nor communist/socialist, defends national sovereignty in every way, its phylosophy is humanistic, man is an end in itself but not considered in isolation but like a social being, man has a social function.
the 3rd position believes in a distributive justice, we must give everyone according to their corresponding effort and right

the State doesn't control the man, but man severally participates for the benefit of the whole nation, it is federal in nature, because social justice refers to reward the effort and not just the concenrtación of wealth in few hands, in that aspect is socialist, but not comunist

it's mainly a Federal movement

alright, I tried to explain it the best I could

Honestly awesome. Like a cult figure/ populist.

Quite interesting politics. We might need that in America.

Trump is kind of going that way.

Sounds like European social democracy witch some aspects of collectivism and nationalist populism.

Yeah we have that in Poland. I wouldn't recommend.

I see Trump like a populist, but more extreme (Peron was a statesman, he always used diplomacy)

>with some aspects of collectivism and nationalist populism
that's exactly the moment when the populism started here

damn, meant

To understand the basis of peronism read about the Social Doctrine of the Church of Leon XIII, it was a big thing here back in the day in the far right nationalistic faction of army and priesthood.
Left Peronism is meme though, Kirchnerism was pretty much an anomaly because of the peculiar way Nestor Kirchner (Cristina's husband) came into power, and actual right Peronism is establishment tier, the true nationalistic one has little support. After all, Nationalism in general has little support in the world nowadays.

peronism isnt anything, it could be pro american neo liberal as in the 90s, or leftist as it was last decade. It is praxis, not ideology.

Peron himself was allied to the Catholic Church for 9 years, even made Catholic education mandatory in schools, and was an enemy of the Catholic church who legalized prostituion with followers who burned churches in its last year.

Peron himself in his last years gave American companies control over our oil fields with lots of kilometers in which these companies had their own airfields.

Peronism isnt ideologically consistent. The fact that you had extreme right peronists and extreme left peronists killing each other in the 70s proves it.

What matters about peronism is:
-Unions are peronists, peronism is a laborist party
-they engage in clientelism, they give gifts to poor people (from matresses to washing machines to construction materials so that poor people can build their own houses in shanty towns) in exchange for votes
-when a new leader of Peronism is chosen, all opposition dsappears within the party. because of that they also tend to obsequence towards the leader.
-they tend towards populist nationalistic speeches and cult of personality, a peronist ruler is likely to desire to modify the constitution in order to be able to be reelected more than once. The last 2 peronist presidents wanted that but failed at gathering enough support to modify the constitution.

>Sounds like European social democracy witch some aspects of collectivism and nationalist populism.
>social democracy
Not at all, the most similar thing Peron was is something between Franco catholic traditionalism and cult personality and De Gaulle's civic nationalism.
And when he returned in the 70's for a third term, it was mostly to fight communism, so he was more pragmatic and tried to moderately cooperate with the US.

the ideology of peronism is whatever the average Argentine wants in some time period.
If what they want is very different to what the peronist party offered in the recent past, then the leaders of the peronist party will be replaced by new younger leaders who represent better the current zeitgeist and have a better chance at winning in elections.

they are like the communists who say communism has never been tried.

I just gave him the theory, and the theory says what I said, obviously in the practice may vary

>they are like the communists who say communism has never been tried.
the key difference is that communism collapsed, while the ideas of Peronism worked for decades, (at least their two objetives, stoping communism spread and preserve industries) even when Peron wasn't in power, to be ultimately destroyed from both outside and inside after the last coup.

>I wouldn't recommend

Poland's economy is doing great. Also, birthrates are rising again.

>preserve industries
But wasn't Argentina one of the richest countries in the world before Peron?

So Macri is the newest Peronist?

>Poland's economy is doing great
It used to, but strangely after our 'peronist' party was elected we had a decrease in economic growth and ratings.

> birthrates are rising again.
source?

It was during Peron as well.

1965-onwards was when Argentina went JUST.

Because EU funding went to 0%. If you don't toe the line, you lose your bribes.

Meanwhile inflation adjusted wages rose 6% the last 12 months.

>source
My ass. Look at the wiki page for your demographics.

>one of the richest countries in the world before Peron
you mean before the Wall street crash of 1929. Argentina was rich, but was heavily dependant on trade with UK. When the British turned their back in favor of their Commonwealth colonies after the crash (that's when Canada and Australia started being relevant), that's when our economy collapsed, there's a reason we had the first coup in our history in the 30's. Peron came like 20 years after that and has nothing to do with our rich past.

>before Peron
nope, thanks to him we started to have middle class, he gave the ''work's law'' (paid vacations, retirement and others), he nationalized the trains (that were in British hands), and pretty much industrialized the country

nope, the last ones in call themselves ''peronists'' were the kirchners, but they and Menem were the worst disgrace for this country (Menem was neo liberal and Kirchners semi-commies)

>Look at the wiki page for your demographics.
But the statistics are as of May '16. The new gov is ruling since October '15. Human pregnancy is 9 months.

>Because EU funding went to 0%.
No it didn't.

>Meanwhile inflation adjusted wages rose 6% the last 12 months.
It used to grow like that before too. Meanwhile the GDP growth estimates have been lowered from 3,6% to 3,3%.

it worth the mention: Menem was so peronist that privatized tons of companies and the trains, most of which stopped working)

Ok, I didn't know that

>he gave the ''work's law'' (paid vacations, retirement and others)
Can't find an article about those on wiki, is there a number of a decree?

here you have a summary, it's in spanish but accurate and not too long
line.do/es/peron-y-las-leyes-laborales/76v/vertical

>1965-onwards was when Argentina went JUST.
Not really. The 60s was still decent even though unstable. The quality of life was the best of South America.
The point of no return and JUST was the 80s

Thanks

Argentina was wealthy befor Peron, and Peronism didnt invent our industry or our middle class.
Mi hijo el dotor is older than Peronism, second generation european immigrants were becoming middle class and voting the UCR.
Y al 17 de Octubre fueron obreros industriales de industrias obviamente creadas antes del peronismo.
Pero le dio un gran impulso a la industria ligera, pero no quedó mucho de eso. Frondizi y el desarrollismo fueron más importantes y exitosos para la industria Argentina.

El golpe a Yrigoyen no tiene nada de extraordinario, el crack del 29 y la crisis del 30 explican mucho del éxito de Hitler y Mussolini en Europa, a todos los países les golpeó mal.

Perón sí es el creador de gran parte de nuestro welfare state, pero no era imprescindible, los uruguayos no necesitaron a un Perón para tener "derechos sociales" tan buenos como los nuestros.

Later during the WWII we experienced an economic boom, mainly from food exports to Europe, but after the war (Peron became president in 1946) we had to deal with UK's pound devaluation (British were in debt with our country because of the war, in their own currency, so you can figure it out how it fucked us), compete with America (the new superpower that was not only an industrial powerhouse, but a resource producer) and its influence in Europe, and most important, the Marshall Plan, which definetely rekt our trade with Europe. Argentina's economic problems during that time are mostly due to bad luck and impossibility to find a place in the world economy.

ya teniamos industria pesada desde la decada infame, con las fundiciones de acero de los altos hornos zapla, los astilleros navales y la industria automotriz y aeronautica. Eso de la industria ligera es un meme muy difundido por los 'frondizistas'.
Con respecto a lo otro que decis, es dificil decir si una figura historica es prescindible o no cuando no sabemos como se hubiera comportado la alternativa (radicalismo, socialismo, social democracia), con los tiempos turbulentos de la guerra y la posguerra es dificil precisar si hubieran gobernado bien, o si los hubiesen derrocado como le paso a Yrigoyen, un tipo que lamentablemente no estaba a la altura de las espectativas.

>los uruguayos no necesitaron a un Perón para tener "derechos sociales" tan buenos como los nuestros.
Pero si necesitaron un gobierno anti comunista que les de esos derechos para que no hagan quilombo. Las cosas no se hacen porque si.

Perdon, a este

The shift in political ideology began in 2012 user.

The growth of EU funding was negative in Q4-Q1.

>used to
Not in 2010-2014.
2015-2016 have been the best time to be a Polish worker in history.

The GDP markdown is because EU funding plummeted post election. Why bribe if the government won't do you bidding?

Well, Macri has a lot of Personist policies and most of the congress are Personists.

>The shift in political ideology began in 2012
You are dumb, the elections were in Oct 2015

But the anti-EU, more conservative socially, and more leftist economically shift began in 2012 in the government.

It's Argentina's brand of populism.

No. Stop talking about stuff you have no idea about

In the simplest way possible, peronism is democratic fascism. It didn't even need to be democratic since everyone liked Peron.

Modern "peronists" have transformed peronism into some cucked system in which the government gets a shitton of money, starves the poor and gets away with it because of propaganda and authoritarianism.

tl;dr Pure peronism is a mix of populism and fascism. Modern justicialism is a weird disfunctional system that no one likes.

>tldr
>3 lines
Well fuck me I'm too tired for posting