Where did this sudden push for EU Army come from? Why is it being promoted so hard when NATO already exists?

Of course I'm for it. There's zero valid reasons to be against it.

It comes from the fact that the EU can't secure it's borders, as every country can handle it on it's own. Also, the EU will never be able to negotiate with Russia or China as long as we are in the Nato with their greatest enemy.

I'm for a EU army and against the Nato.

Totally didn't expect the UK to be against european integration, wew.

Who cares, we can finally become a single country.

>I'm for a EU army and against the Nato
Unsurprising

How surprising that an American is pro-NATO and anti-EU?

Nato is a good thing,
anyone who wants it to be less yank-centric simply has to put in more funding and get involved more instead of letting them take all the slack

EU army is a terrible idea

Can you guys start policing the world so that we can sit safely in the states and judge you for all your mistakes then?

Japanese are pro-Nato or Pro-Natto?

>loves Rome
>hates the idea of Europe becoming a single country
Explain yourself.

I'm anti-nato
The US served it's purpose, I wouldn't mind us leaving it

I'm against the EU, which is already fairly overbearing, from suddenly having an army with which to enforce it's laws

>as it disn't had an army capable of comparing to Russia's
In cold war times, even we alone had about 5000 tanks. There is not even the need for this today, as Russia is not capable of anything financially. Saying "we need the Nato" is just not right in these days.

your pic is racist af
also gender and religion intolerant

Then why do you need an army?

>because it seems like a tool to push NATO and American influence away from Europe
Sure, it may sound like that, but the only thing that will change is that you're going to do the dirty work while the amerifats just relax and give the orders.

An EU army is just a simple way to get everyone involved whenever papa america feels like wrecking some country up. Before it was just USA+UK+France at the center, now it's going to be USA+All of the EU.
So spain, portugal, netherlands and funland have complains about their own citizens fighting a war that isn't theirs? Tough luck, the EU is the one calling the shots.

>le 2015 premier guy

Against it, Europe is just gonna become another shitty culture-less void like the US if they keep in this direction

It's not a new army, it's the cooperation of the current EU forces. And it's a good idea, as the Nato causes more trouble in Europe than it should actually solve. And you can't use the Nato to help citizens during a flood or whatever.

This, please don't do it, most politicians give zero shits about America right now and I'm sick of it

Doesn't each nation have it's own army/national guard already though? A united army just puts power in the hands of a few.
It would be a logical move should the EU be under threat, but it isn't under threat by anybody but it's own legislators. Same with most of the 1st world.

American government shills constantly for the EU, what are you smoking?

So why don't your single states have the power of their own armies?

It's old news, the frogs already planned something like that back in the 50s, but their own parliament said "no" back then
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Community

This. We're basically your bodyguards because you allow us to be. Your governments benefit immensely from this arrangement.

They used to have their own militias, but then a little thing known as Bacon's Rebellion happened. Virginia went into chaos, and the nation was shaken.
It then became obvious that the states were not strong enough to enforce the law on their own, and the government was too weak to even build an army. So the US became federalized. My state never even had it's own army because it didn't exist under the articles of confederation.
The EU doesn't have an issue with each country being unable to enforce their own laws now does it?

We have the National Guard, citizen soldiers
They're shared between the states and the Federal Government, but aren't allowed to be taken control of without permission of the governor or emergency executive order

Don't try to compare the EU to the US
Americans pledge their allegiance to the nation first, other way around for you lot, no matter how hard the pro-EU dorks try to push it

Bullshit, ~0.5% of GDP into military is way more than enough for us if we align, because who's gonna fuck with us in a defensive-only secnario? Sure, if we want to be resource-/geopolitical raiders like the burgers we'd have to spend more, but alas we're not

>implying you guys won't start 4th reich

I say this out of concern, not because I want the US to be the top. In fact it would be nice to sit back, and judge Europe's actions from a distance for a change.
A united army is just a step towards federalization. This is a mistake we made out of necessity. It takes power away from the people, and puts it in the hands of whoever has the wealth and influence.

aren't EU members still nations?
nations should have their own army

it's memeing

If so it will be a European country at some point, which I would just support.

>eu army is created
>eu army starts to fuck with US-Rus interests
>WW3.

Yeah, do it.

>Who cares, we can finally become a single country.
Not a good thing.

desu the Netherlands, Belguim, Germany and even France or Spain wouldn't even need a military. Nobody would expect anybody to come close here. And it's out of debate that we will war ourselves in the future. Our military is constantly somewhere else (Turkey, Poland, Baltics, etc.), because it's not even needed here. A european military would concentrate it there where it's needed and it's useful in case of natural disasters in regions where they have less military too.

4u

you're retarded, France has the largest EEZ in the world and need a military to patrol and maintain their control
Germany needs no military, your only sea access is tiny and you hardly have a navy to patrol it, you are surrounded by friendly nation and have nothing to protect, stop trying to steal France's military

No, that would be retarded.
Eurocucks are famous for sucking Turkish dick and the only reason the Greek army exists is Turkey.

Remember when the EU was just supposed to be a financial organization? Then they slipped in laws for countries that weren't willing to accept them under the threat of a damaged economy? Now they want an army and soon Germany will have finally conquered the continent.

>to patrol and maintain their control
Against what? Sharks?
>stop trying to steal France's military
That's total bullshit mate and you know it. We could just trash our entire military right now and wouldn't pay a cent. An EU military would much more ensure that we participate.

>star on the helmet

Environmentalists

This

I don't know what level of idiocy you have to possess to support something like this. The only people on Cred Forums who do seem to be Germans, which is utterly unsurprising.

>Why is it being promoted so hard when NATO already exists?
Because Trump is implying he doesn't care about America's Nato obligations. I would be scared shitless if I were you.

>Ancient Rome = western civilization

>European union = globalist utopia weakening everything related to the west and its former achievements

This, most countries haven't been putting their fair share in.

This as well.

>Falling for the female soldier meme

I kind of like Trump, but bitching about ESTONIA not paying its fair share?? Are you fucking kidding me? Bitch to literally anyone else. The whole reason NATO exists is to protect states like Estonia.

>Are you fucking kidding me?

I meant countries like Germany and France that are economically and demographically strong and can reasonably put their effort into it but don't.

>Ancient Rome = globalist utopia also

I mean, it was. An upper class of about 10,000 people ran the show and everyone else could suck a dick.

Wait what?
Estonia meets the 2% mark though

EU officials are depressed about Brexit and want to make themselves feel important again.

Why should we support either financially or by manpower your adventures like Vietnam, Afghanistand and Iraq that only geopolitically benefit you but not us?

Because there is no reason to put money into something which doesn't really benefit us or the EU. It just benefits the US.

>Hey lads, what if instead of scaling back our unsustainable socialist governments and rebuilding our defense infastructures so we can be strong, sovereign nations that can contribute our fair share to our common military alliance, we just combine literally everything into one globalist mess and let unelected foreign politicians and bureaucrats run it? The former Prime Minister of Luxembourg and the woman that is overseeing the eventual genetic extinction of native Europeans in half of the continent support it so it must be a good idea!

He's talking about protecting the Baltic states from Russia, which is DEFINITELY in your best interest.

Not worried. We lose very little from the EU as the only point of NATO was to protect from the Soviets which we don't need since there are no Soviets and the EU can supposedly protect itself. Our biggest NATO spender has done a brexit so worst case we still have a pretty strong ally in Europe. On top of that EU has signed all our trade agreements so we don't lose any money.

I'm for it.

NATO is a relic of the past.

You guy might be able to trade with Russia again now. Instead of WW3 over a peninsula.

Rome colonized the places they conquered.
They preserved what was meant to be western, and most importantly, THEY CIVILIZED the barbarians they conquered.
They didn't create parallel societies between them the same way the european union does.

All its former territories in mainland europe still speak a romance language and have similar cultures.

The european union is fading away everything the roman empire built, the things even germanic barbarians couldn't manage to destroy after its downfall.

You're missing my point. I guess you've never been to paris in your whole life.

Because you willingly entered into a treaty exhorting that you do so. Besides, 9/11 was the only time ever that Article 5 was invoked, and many non-American states have invoked Article 4.

Don't? Literally nobody is forcing you to, not that you ever contribute anything remotely noteworthy besides parking lots for US aircraft and whining anyway.

Europe gets cucked by us with the EU.

Imagine it without the EU.

There's no good reason to not have a European only defense alliance.

Yes, but I would more likely to provide this duty to a government which was elected by the people from here. And not by an outdated warmongering alliance where totally different countries from other continents have influence in.

Russians won't start shit in that area, they're not that dumb to economically shoot their own knee like that
Plus they already have Königsberg, what would annexing Baltics add to them?
Finally our trade with those states is only minimal compared to our total foreign trade

But there's many burger complaints (not only here but IRL too) about us not reaching the 2% GDP military expenditure threshold

>elected
You must be fucking joking.

>they're not that dumb
They DEFINITELY are.

Because you are /ourcuckold/.

?

The very people that are calling for an EU military are unelected, it won't be anymore democratic if it actually comes to fruition. It would be run by literal retards with no military experience and token minorities, just like the militaries of all western European countries are.

Nah, as you can see even the annexation of Crimea (a place that wasn't even anywhere close to our sphere of interest) got them internationally punished and sanctioned the shit of, resulting in a >50% ruble devaluation, so I can just imagine what annexing e.g. Estonia would do to them

>Europe is not in the EU's sphere of interest
And here we see exactly why this sort of thing will literally never work.

>There's no good reason to not have a European only defense alliance
They already have that though, weeeeeeeee're just tagging along's all

Totally not pulling them by their legs because they gave up after the local bully lost his brass knuckles and they "don't feel like following through" with their commitments

Because it is an easy goal to meet in budgets
Poland, Greece, Estonia, they're all far poorer than you and they're committing themselves to a bare minimum in terms of showing commitment to the idea of mutual defense

European Union representatives aren't elected officials

>a place that wasn't even anywhere close to our sphere of interest
It was of interest for the EU, which is essentially a German """proxy""" at this point
Need I remind you that we had to kick your country in order to get them to do something about the blatant aggression of the Russian Regime?

Interesting thing what I read about this is, that they had even more sanctions planned, but pulled them back, because they underestimated the effect on Russias economy.

Send like it's just going to be used to enforce the e.u's decisions on is member states

>in this thread
>UK and USA against everything EU related
who would've thought

>implying any of us ever cared about the fate of some virtually T*rkish peninsula halfway into Asia without any economic significance aside from Russian tourists
C'mon, show some honesty
Even before 2014, Ukraine itself was never planned to enter EU before 2050 if at all>Need I remind you that we had to kick your country
Yeah you pished for us to sanction Russkies, while simultaneously your trade with them went significantly up. Hypocrites.
We shouldn't have sanctioned at all, because what happens in USSR stays in USSR, their internal shenanigans weren't ever, and still are none of our business

t. Sigmar Gabriel

>European Superpower trying to build a multinational army
>China/Russian are growing in power and military daily
>united states is the united states
>surveillance pervasive in daily life

might as well call them oceania, eurasia, and eastasia at this point

You are literally the only nationality that consistently supports this shit on here. Don't get pissy just because sane people aren't okay with your constant fourth reich attempts.

Now you speak for all other europeans, while you are not even in the EU anymore

You are only further proving my point. Europe to you is just whatever is a day's drive away from you for vacation. There is no continental identity, no solidarity with Europeans that you don't know anything or refuse to learn about, and everything that doesn't directly border you may as well be Timbuktu. You are only demonstrating why the idea of not just an EU army, but the actual EU itself is extremely, deeply flawed and it seems to be going completely over your head.

Are you from West Germany?
>your trade with them went significantly up
Don't say such things and not back up your claims
Because just looking at the census records of our trade with Russia shows you're full of shit
It went down 10%, which admittedly isn't a lot but we didn't trade much with them regardless

So.

Do not pretend you're not doing the same thing
You're speaking on your nation's behalf, though I doubt many of your countrymen feel even remotely the same as you do

I'm just saying that I don't feel much relation to some East Asian Tatar place, according to your logic Turkey, China and Japan should be in EU too
Unlike any current EU cunt we had lots of historical and cultural ties with, Crimea might just as well lie on another planet, zero shared history

Read a real history book, Joao. Clearly you're interested in history, so just do it.

Do you actually think the majority of Europeans agree with you? Absolutely laughable. And I can say whatever the hell I want, because it's still my continent too whether I'm a member of some bogus globalist tower of babylon that your country is constructing or not, you autist.

>You're speaking on your nation's behalf
I don't speak for anybody mate. I couldn't care less, as much as I care about the Nato. I would even go sofar and abolish our own military as it's not needed right now. A EU military would ensure participation for every country and would benefit the small ones near the border and not Germany.

also, this was me, not the other one:

>I would even go sofar and abolish our own military as it's not needed right now.

And then when you need it again no one remembers how to run one. Short sighted idea, Hitler Jr.

Yes, please do continue to prove my point. Be sure to throw in buzzwords like "Turkic", "Tatar", and "Asian" some more to really drive it home.

>Where did this sudden push for EU Army come from?

The US probably. As it stands, NATO relies on the overhanging protection from the US as a deterrent against Russia. Either the US of the EU is planning an EU army for the sake of being less US reliant as tensions increase in both Europe and Asia. Not to mention combining parts of different militaries together and putting them under one command improves standardisation and general readiness for war.

>I'm just saying that I don't feel much relation to some East Asian Tatar place, according to your logic Turkey, China and Japan should be in EU too
What a mindblowingly idiotic post.

I can't understand why germans still defend the european union.
Seriously, the german mark would worth way more than the euro if germany were out of the european union, because they have a lot of countries like greece and spain still dragging down the currency and making tons of debt.

The european union is just good for germany because it has the upper hand on everything related to the union, but it doesnt seem like that's enough for the german people to like it the way they like it.
Especially when they lose control of the borders and undemocratically elected foreigners living in brussels get to decide tons of things for many countries across the union, countries that they never had and never will set foot on them.

>Europeans aren't European if my country isn't close to them
You just completely proved his entire point 100%.

Am I the only one here remembering France deploying thousands of troops all across Africa a few years back? Russia cannot handle a few missiles on Syria.

I read the european ones, jimmy.
I'm not brainwashed like you for saying you won the vietnam war, or you won ww2.

Also, if what I said were a lie, I'd like your sources.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about if you're trying to refute that.

They're not allowed to be nationalists, so they direct that energy towards "Europe" instead. They're pretty much conditioned from birth to see themselves as Europeans first and Germans second, which is why they're so autistic when it comes to anything EU-related. Even the right wing ones do it.

>A EU military would ensure participation for every country
Doubtful, considering you Germans hardly participate as is in NATO, as most other nations hardly participate beyond occasional training

>and would benefit the small ones near the border and not Germany
Benefit how? Be your shield?
Unless you're intent on having a percentage of every EU member 'donate' part of their military to a united European Army, that doesn't speak the same language, have similar training levels, equipment proficiency, and doctrines

>I would even go sofar and abolish our own military as it's not needed right now
>A EU military would ensure participation for every country
Uh huh

The US has no power in the EU, or can force the EU make an army
It's entirely the EU's brainchild

>Not to mention combining parts of different militaries together and putting them under one command improves standardisation and general readiness for war
A few problems with this, namely no single language spoken by all EU members besides possibly German or English, which seems like a chore to translate an entire army, unit to unit, or teach all soldiers a language
Besides, NATO already standardizes all the armies
"Readiness for war" is merely watching satellites and keeping tabs on the locations of divisions

Russia managed to snatch Crimea and inspire a civil war in Ukraine, I wouldn't underestimate them TOO much

>as Russia is not capable of anything financially
Oh, if you say so

Wouldn't an EU army just be a logistical nightmare?

>Russia cannot handle a few missiles on Syria.
What are talking about, retard? You really believe all dat bullshit about our missiles you have seen media?