I am fascinated with South Africa. I heard that if you're white, your living standards are extremely high...

Thanks. Are you a native SA citizen or an expat? Are you white?

Just be nice to everyone and no one will try to fuck your shit up. It's not that hard.

The current university protesters are an exception to that rule. They just seem to hate whites.

But any normal black person has no issue with whites, so long as everyone treats everyone else like a human being.

>It's only very few white farmers who don't have any degree. Educated people have well-paid jobs and their purchasing power is very high, as real estate and things like food are pretty cheap.
This is statistically false and state-sponsored discrimination redirects capital to black people not white.

>Even educated people in Eastern Europe struggle with harsh living conditions, most of them live in small apartments in blocks
This is false again. Wages are rising fast and the commie-blocks are a consequence of the communist infrastructure direction.

I suggest you talk to some real south Africans and ask them why the are leaving SA in huge numbers.

You're 100% wrong. White lifestyle in South Africa is overwhelmingly very nice. There exist poor white people. There do not exist poor, educated white people.

t. white person.

>I suggest you talk to some real south Africans and ask them why the are leaving SA in huge numbers.

That's what I'm doing right now:

By what my friend told me most SA whites are fucking off fast.

Well good to know then. My friend worked for a tech company in SA and he left because of one of his friends getting killed.

>This is false again. Wages are rising fast and the commie-blocks are a consequence of the communist infrastructure direction.

Our wages will never rise above a certain level, because East European economies are stuck in a middle income trap, we don't have big, international companies, white South Africa has plenty of them, plus their mining industry provides a lot of well-paid jobs for engineers. Educated people flee from Eastern Europe in masse and it will never change.

An Eastern European engineer, lawyer or doctor will never attain the living standards his South African counterpart has. It's not only about economy, though, but also about climate, nature.

This has been discussed in Cred Forums for ages.

americanfreepress.net/70000-whites-murdered-in-modern-south-africa-obamas-african-legacy/

SA truly is a paradise on earth.

That's gonna happen in Finland too. Just invite more durka burqas from Syria and Iraq.

>It's not only about economy, though, but also about climate, nature.
What?
>Our wages will never rise above a certain level, because East European economies are stuck in a middle income trap, we don't have big, international companies, white South Africa has plenty of them
SA had 50 years of capitalist advantage over us. Yes we dont have many personal companies but there are more and more local brands coming in to existance, I even know some from Poland.
>plus their mining industry provides a lot of well-paid jobs for engineers
True SA is mineral rich.
> Educated people flee from Eastern Europe in masse and it will never change.

Doubtful but possible if these cunts that we call politicians keep reeling this country towards the same direction where Sweden and Germany are going. We are a small nation and if Merkel has her way the mudslime will over come us in numbers sooner than we'd like to think. How ever I doubt that the mudslime nor the niggers can survive in the wild like we can and you have to remember, finland is a cold and rural shithole.

You should not take the things diaspora say about their country at face value. Always temper it with the knowledge that diaspora represent the least satisfied of the country's inhabitants: those so unhappy that they left.
I'm sorry to hear that. Crime, as I've said, is a major problem here. Despite that, at least in Cape Town, it's rare to know someone who was murdered. But it is a major concern anyway. The closest connection I have to a murdered person is my best friend having a family friend-type connection to a girl who was raped by three men and then strangled to death in Newlands forest. So there's no way to paint South Africa as a true paradise, but it's certainly nowhere near as bleak as you make it out to be. But on a personal level, murder has had no impact on my life.

Basically, it's a very good lifestyle, in a beautiful climate, with occasional horrific stories from here or there. Just be smart and hope it doesn't happen to you. Really though, as a white man, there is little to worry about except maybe getting mugged once or twice in your life. As a woman, don't try that "tell men not to rape" crap. Have a man or large group of friends with you in any area that's not super public.

watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=0oJwOrsh8oA

Your living standards are higher, when you live in a place, where there's actually no winter (especially Cape Town), the climate is mild and nature is beautiful.

>SA had 50 years of capitalist advantage over us

I do agree, but it's a fact and we can only deal with it. We will never catch up with them (unless blacks fuck up this country).

>Yes we dont have many personal companies but there are more and more local brands coming in to existance, I even know some from Poland.

The EU will never let our companies grow to a level that they would be able to compete with German or French companies. Our companies will be taken over by them before it happens. Your Dacia will always be just a manufacturer of cheap Renault cars and Renault will never let this company fight for the part of the market that is controlled by Renault.

> How ever I doubt that the mudslime nor the niggers can survive in the wild like we can and you have to remember, finland is a cold and rural shithole.

They will live everywhere where they're given welfare.

>You should not take the things diaspora say about their country at face value. Always temper it with the knowledge that diaspora represent the least satisfied of the country's inhabitants: those so unhappy that they left.
I have to agree with you 100% on this ( from Romania ). But you know: your friend tells you, you see documentaries, etc.. Its easy to build a certain perspective.
I will try to find out more about SA. And thanks for the response.

>The EU will never let our companies grow to a level that they would be able to compete with German or French companies. Our companies will be taken over by them before it happens. Your Dacia will always be just a manufacturer of cheap Renault cars and Renault will never let this company fight for the part of the market that is controlled by Renault.
There are plenty of local brands getting born mate. And even as we speak Romania started to put up restriction to foreign capital in trading, agriculture etc.. Have hope.

Are your people concerned about the future of South Africa? I mean, the country seems to be in crisis right now, both economic and political. Is there any hope that things will get better? Is there any possibility, that a white person will be in power as a president?

Also, you haven't answered if you're a citizen or an expat.

>They will live everywhere where they're given welfare.
And if they choose to chimp out like they are doing in Africa? For example, who will maintain the infrastructure that is needed for electicity or for the water lines to work? Who will give them paychecks that they can use and actually buy something from the fucking store?

Finland, much like Poland is blessed with a harsh enviroment where you just can not survive without the necessary infra, without skills to build something where you can remain warm if the infra fails and if you can't provide for your self if necessary.

it's really fucked up, my dad worked for a south african company and ive been there a few times. whites basically live on compounds.

the saffer in this thread has stockholm syndrome

they really REALLY suck at rugby

Fuck off not-Australia.

I have quite literally already mentioned the fact that everyone lives behind 7-foot walls.

this

also, the country has many boer """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""PEOPLE""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>losing to australia
>ACTUALLY and LITERALLY losing to AUSTRALIA
you just CANNOT make this shit up

I met quite some rich whites who fled the country because despite living in gated communities their couldn't even trust their own guards. The crime rate is sky-high, for a long time South Africa had the highest murder rate in the world, higher than Colombia and Venezuela. The black politicians are absolutely corrupt and incompetent, the world has been able to witness that on several occasions.

>local brands

Local brands limited to a local market. We had a lot of prospective start-ups, but it all ends up in the same way - a western company offers a lot of money and the owner decides to sell it out and move either to some tropical paradise or to western Europe to work for even more money.

>And even as we speak Romania started to put up restriction to foreign capital in trading, agriculture etc..

Really? Let's wait for the opinion of the European Commission. But I'm sure, that if your laws violate EU laws (i.e. - German and French businesses), you will be forced to give up or they will impose sanctions on you.

Is it bad? I think that descendants of Dutch and German colonists must be top-tier people. In the USA or Brazil they are usually the elite of the society.

I am a citizen, born and raised here. And yes, people of all colours are seriously concerned about the future. The current trend in politics makes it look like the ANC (ruling part since 1994) will lose to a DA (the "white" party, basically the party that nearly everyone not indoctrinated by the ANC votes for) -led coalition after two or three more terms in power. It's just a case of whether or not the country is recoverable by that stage. Also if the EFF
(radical and inept commies led by an insane, hyper corrupt former ANC lackey) comes to power I'm buying a ticket and leaving for anywhere else the next day.

Do you think that refugees are able to think in a long-term perspective?

Boers are cool. Can be a bit religious for my taste but one of my best friends is very proudly Afrikaans, and I like the language.
>Brits
>still butthurt they couldn't beat a bunch of farmers without resorting to murdering women and children
>CANNOT make this shit up

Are you of English or Dutch background? Do you speak English or Afrikaans at home?

English, and I speak English at home. I speak Afrikaans passably though, and like most people who speak both languages I occasionally switch to Afrikaans and then back when talking to someone who also speaks both, and I often have conversations where I speak in English while the other person speaks in Afrikaans.

But still, what are the relations between Anglos and Boers? Do they still hate each other, or racial issues are more important than "inner" hate, so they get along with each other and hate blacks together? And do white people learn black languages?

What is the most "white" place in South Africa? Bloemfontein? Are there any white-only towns?

Since the end of Apartheid unemployment rate increased with 40% and has doubled the last 10 years; 2 million people are homeless and the amount of people living in shanty towns has increased with 50% to 12.5 million. In general the living conditions for black people has worsened. This has been confirmed by the secretary-general of the trade union Cosatu, which greatly angered president Mbeki.

The democracy that had to ensure respect for law, human rights, and guarantee the safety of its civilians has utterly failed.

They should have stayed loyal to the crown

perfidious Albion

Pretoria is majority white

But they lived way better when they were ruled by anti-British National Party.

>

youtube.com/watch?v=OLJSz-wzOHI

Also, this song is beautiful.

>tfw you will never live in this awesome country

fuck Mandela and the ANC.
Apartheid was way better.

Beacause it was led by Dutch people. Belgians failed even at apartheid, we've seen it in Congo.

For the most part, absolutely fine. There is a sort of animosity between the most ignorant of the urban English-speakers (including the fucking "white liberals" who, unlike in any other Western culture, are openly considered a meme by absolutely everyone except themselves) and the most close-minded rural boers (including the ultra-nationalist fringe elements still upset about being subjugated by the British). There are plenty of all-white towns up north, but they tend to be very small, and are generally exclusively Afrikaans-speaking, so you would have to learn the language fluently to go live there (although it's a good language to know in South Africa anyway). On the topic of languages, learning a the main local languages (Xhosa or Zulu) is a good idea, but Zulus take extreme offence to being assumed Xhosa, and vice-versa. Also, more than half the black people you interact with will be Zimbabwean, Congolese, etc.

Yep. Luckily an unemployed lower class, aside from the crime rate, is good for the middle class. Because cheap maids, gardeners, labourers, guards, etc.

"In Detention"

He fell from the ninth floor
He hanged himself
He slipped on a piece of soap while washing
He hanged himself
He slipped on a piece of soap while washing
He fell from the ninth floor
He hanged himself while washing
He slipped from the ninth floor
He hung from the ninth floor
He slipped on the ninth floor while washing
He fell from a piece of soap while slipping
He hung from the ninth floor
He washed from the ninth floor while slipping
He hung from a piece of soap while washing.

piss off will you

Apartheid has some unfortunate current consequences. It was never going to last forever, and it left a tradition of black non-education that the ANC is very happy to continue, as an uneducated populace can't question their "liberators." Plus the immense black political hatred for whites. This leaves us in a situation where only a black person can be elected, but good black candidates are few and far between. It's not entirely Apartheid's fault, to be sure, and the ANC has certainly had enough time to undo most of Apartheid's damage but have failed to do so; but it would be absolute blindness to think that Apartheid could ever end well.

>Luckily an unemployed lower class, aside from the crime rate, is good for the middle class. Because cheap maids, gardeners, labourers, guards, etc.

Except that those (black) guards will cut your throat if it is advantageous for them. Happened many times already.

Zimbabwe didn't have it as bad as South Africa, yet hatred for whites exploded with even bigger power there. As far as I know, most of Rhodesian blacks were fairly educated, because the white government provided cheap education for them, Mugabe graduated from a university, but it didn't help.

Not if they're employed with a large, reputable company that does proper background checks. Don't ever live in an estate that hires its guards directly; that's asking for trouble. The good ones though, they show up with guys in bulletproof vests with assault rifles at the first sign of trouble.

Yeah but the problem there was that the white government was toppled, rather than negotiating terms on even footing. So there the whites became, essentially, a conquered people, whereas here the status of whites in society, politics aside, remained largely unchanged.

To elaborate, what in my opinion would have been best at the time Aprtheid was implemented is taking similar political steps to old Rhodesia, allowing blacks similar rights to whites, slowly giving them more political power, while at the same time remaining a police state with brutal crackdowns on any hints of terrorism, and communism outlawed like it was. Basically get blacks and whites on the same side against some external enemy, allow a few sympathetic blacks into very prominent positions in government, that sort of thing, and slowly indoctrinate the masses towards a common goal with white people. This as opposed to lol let's try and turn black people into a permanent underclass with us as their not-benevolent-at-all tyrannical overlords! What could possible go wrong?

No matter how much you educate them they will also be much more prone to corruption and agression because of a very base and selfish attitude towards others. (That should ring a bell btw)

Because I failed to mention it properly, South Africa had a far stronger military than Rhodesia ever did, and there was no hope of any "resistance movement" ever winning a civil war without boots-on-the-ground support from a major power.

Yeah, black culture in South Africa is very often very toxic. But there is a tendency of apolitical middle-class blacks (and coloureds and Indians too) to emulate white culture as far as possible. I reckon if politics wasn't black-dominated, and the government was actually educating black people to the point where they could have a positive economic impact on society, then the culture would shift over time to one where hard work is revered as a tool for escaping poverty, rather than crime or corruption being the way to go.

This would of course require a radical auditing of all branches of government, something that will only happen once the ANC has lost the elections.

The ANC has already lost the last elections in all the educated parts of the country. They lost Johannesburg, Cape Town and Port Elizabeth.

Demonising the EFF is pointless because they have proven themselves to be anti-corruption and they've supported the DA against the ANC. The DA wouldn't be running Johannesburg without their coalition there fire instance.

Also don't sugarcoat Apartheid. It was a system of white affirmative action that stayed in place for a very long time. It will take a long while to reverse the effects of it. In Finland Swedish speakers used to be the """""Whites""""" but they have the poor Finnish speaking majority equal rights and status under law which meant universities were built for us etc. Change only happens if the elites with the money give a fuck about the country they love and it takes a long fucking time.

Dude... yes, the EFF is a good thing, if they can be controlled. And kept very very far away from a majority. Read their manifesto. Look up Julius Malema. He was and still is a literal meme figure. And yes, the ANC lost a serious portion of the municipal and provincial elections. But they still control the country. They definitely won't forever, but they will for a while.

And further, I'm not sugarcoating Apartheid. Where did I do that? Yes, whites were advantaged over blacks. But it is naive and stupid to want to "reverse" that situation. Bring black up to speed with whites absolutely, yes. That is what I vote for and what I agitate for when I get the chance. I want education of the poor to be taken seriously in this country rather than shoved to the side and mismanaged. In fact, I want education in general to take center stage. But the government's measures are not aiming to bring blacks up to speed, they're aiming to replace whites with blacks, and less qualified blacks at that. It doesn't work most of the time, because the private sector will find a way to hire the best, most educated person for the job. It is having a profoundly negative effect on the government and on education though, as students who lack the educational foundation to complete a university degree are pushed into tertiary education in place of more qualified students - not just whites, but coloured people, indians, muslims and asians (and yes, those are all distinct racial and cultural groups here) are all getting displaced. The throughput rate of universities is thus compromised. The entire government approach to education is to lower standards for the disadvantaged until they don't look disadvantaged any more, rather than trying to give everyone a good education. Apartheid is a thing that happened. The country has a situation to deal with now. We should be trying to fix the current situation, rather than trying to fix the situation as it was in 1994; focusing on Apartheid.

Also anti-corruption? The EFF? Are you actually joking? In South Africa we have a term, "tenderpreneur," used to refer to the so-called "entrepreneurs" who gobble up government tenders that pay thousands of rand to the brick and other such obviously corrupt nonsense. Again, look up Julius Malema, te founder and leader and figurehead of the EFF.

>Local brands limited to a local market. We had a lot of prospective start-ups, but it all ends up in the same way - a western company offers a lot of money and the owner decides to sell it out and move either to some tropical paradise or to western Europe to work for even more money.

Mofo stop fucking depressing me. I'm trying to keep a positive perspective here! Stop being so rational.

Colouredfag here...

>heard that if you're white, your living standards are extremely high,

You heard wrong

You're a good guy. I also didn't trust or have any respect for Malema before when he was in the ANC but he's changed and even went back to university and lost weight. I still wouldn't vote for him over Mmusi. The DA is also problematic because where they've been ruling in Cape Town the poor have been getting poorer. Their policies only benefit the rich.

That doesnt mean shit.In every place educated white people are rich/upper middle class, even in latin america and eastern europe.

Apartheid is also still alive and drawing interest if you look at property prices. Those properties your
ancestors were forcefully removed from during Apartheid are now worth 100 times more than the ghettos you guys were moved to.

While the difference might no be hundredfold it is still considerable. Location plays a role of course, as does the way some of those places were built. Just have a look at Hanover Park or Lavender Hill on Google maps.

I know those places. My brother lives in Cape Town and married a coloured girl but they live in Camps Bay. She took us to where her family came from on the Cape Flats and where her parents were forcefully removed from during Apartheid. It's a stark reality check that most of the young people I spoke to there weren't even aware of. The property price difference was literally 100 times.

What's worse is the current drug scourge down there in the form of meth, aka tik colloquially. Those fuckers will steal anything that has any kind of value.

t. kaffir

That is true, but I still don't trust Malema, not with a past as checkered as his. Plus, the policies that his party is pushing would be absolutely disastrous for the country: much of our economy runs on foreign investment, and he is proposing the number one best way to drive off investors; nationalising the mines. This among extreme wealth redistribution policies, akin to Zimbabwe's.

I firmly believe that wealth (or most other things, for that matter) should not simply be handed to people, under any circumstances. It makes for a sense of entitlement that erodes work ethic and morals, besides all the other negative effects that wealth redistribution schemes have had in the past.

As to the DA, I agree that their focus on the middle class, while obviously great for me, isn't the best for everyone. I would like it if they focused more on education and job creation, but the infrastructure development they've been doing does benefit everyone, despite benefiting the wealthy more than others. Besides, the most important thing IMO is their anti-corruption stance and actions. Where the ANC actively shuts down audits and probes, the DA is the group pushing for more investigations. And it's not like the poor have been getting any richer anywhere else either. I mean, technically, as a comparison to the rest of the world, South Africans nationwide lost a third of all their liquid monetary wealth a couple of months ago in the finance minister reshuffling that Zuma pulled.

Basically, the DA is certainly less incompetent than the ANC, as well as less corrupt, so I figure they're a better bet.

This, there's a drug/gang war going on in the Cape Flats in addition to the tik epidemic. The prices are low because no one wants to live there.

The lightest-skinned kaffir you ever met m8.

Also thanks, it's really nice to not be called a racist, bigot, or misogynist in a non-circlejerk political discussion from time to time.

I spoke to educated coloureds down there who told me their communities were flooded with drugs during Apartheid to keep them fighting against each other instead of against Apartheid. They said the main anti-Apartheid leaders came from their community during the 80's. The UDF for instance. I also recently saw a documentary about the 80's there about a guy called Ashley Kriel. They spoke to people from his family and others in his community who said the same thing about the drugs. The Apartheid government had a chemical warfare plan against them by a guy called Dr. Death. He apparently got amnesty from prosecution because he said sorry.

I just googled Dr. Death and found this guy as the top result

>Wouter Basson (born 6 July 1950) is a South African cardiologist and former head of the country's secret chemical and biological warfare project, Project Coast, during the apartheid era.

>Nicknamed "Dr. Death" by the press for his alleged actions in apartheid South Africa, Basson was acquitted in 2002 of 67 charges, after having been suspended from his military post with full pay in 1999.

>When F. W. de Klerk became president in 1990, he ordered that production of the chemicals be stopped and the lethal agents destroyed.
>Basson concentrated on non-lethal chemical agents and chemicals the government had not banned. That included a large amount of ecstasy and Mandrax that were apparently exported or allegedly sold to drug dealers in communities active in the anti-apartheid movement (see Basson brownies).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wouter_Basson

That would be mandrax. In the mid 80's a much older cousin mine was married to a lout who worked for the chief distributor of mandrax, Nazier Kapdi. Apparently huge amounts of it along with dozens of assault rifles were stored at his house. I recall that mandrax, or buttons as it is also called, appeared on the scene very suddenly. As for Dr Basson, there's no way he would ever be touched. His knowledge is too extensive to be tossed aside.

He was caught with $40 million in Croatia while trying to buy Mandrax for the Apartheid government. That community was doubly fucked during Apartheid.

From the same era, Lothar Neethling. Among other things developed a poison that induces a heart attack and leaves absolutely no trace in the body.

Is it still ok to use the whip on you and blacks who work for whites?

Based country with thriving economy, giant social inequality and shitton if crime. I'd like to get a job there if they fix problems with safety. Dude from my uni went there, and he liked it. Nice climate, actually very good people, both black and white, but crime is a big thing and many people live in slums. Also they are pretty conservative and religious. But the salaries and experience are good. Also he got few friends there who helped him to move to USA.

25% of you live in poverty, that is worse than every Eastern Europe except Moldova and Belaruss. You there are rich slavs?

This Dr. Death guy really seems to know too much. You literally can't make this shit up!

>The Vatican secretly sent the Croatian government $40m (£25m) worth of bearer bonds to buy weapons during the Bosnian war, a Johannesburg court was told yesterday during the trial of South Africa's former chemical warfare chief.

>Wouter Basson was said to have stolen some of the bonds and to have tried to use them to pressure the Croatian government into returning $1.6m lost by the South African army in a failed deal to buy chemicals used to make drugs.

>The scheme - and the Vatican's alleged link with Croatia's war effort - are the latest bizarre twist in the trial of Dr Basson for murder and fraud.

>Gen Knobel, Dr Basson's nominal boss at the time, told the court that in 1992 the defence minister asked for a report on a botched deal with Croatia to buy 500kg of chemicals used in the manufacture of the drug mandrax, for crowd control.

theguardian.com/world/1999/nov/19/chrismcgreal.philipwillan

If you want to see what things were really like back then the following books will be most enlightening:
>An Unpopular War
>Troepie: from call-up to camps
>Pale Native
>Dances With Devils

The poor in South Africa are literally 99.999999% Black

pic related

I think you mean dick, considering how that sodomite Terre'blanche met his end.

>asians work hard and get somewhere
>blacks are beyond helping no matter what
kek

why do they not just come back to britain ?

some of them do. the parents of one of my best friends growing up was from SA. they left after his dad fired shots into a door because someone was trying to break in. but when he was about 22 his mum died of brain cancer then his dad died of a stroke a year later. he inherited a massive house and shit loads of money but obviously under horrible circumstances

It's not that simple. I saw a documentary on NDTV last week about the Indian community there and they stated that they were advantaged over blacks and other races during Apartheid but didn't have the same status as whites. They had better schools and universities during Apartheid and also business rights. They were equipped to take advantage of the post-Apartheid era as a result.

Watch it. ndtv.com/video/shows/india-matters/south-africa-rainbow-nation-a-promise-unfulfilled-430694

With regard to his amnesty, look up the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Thats really sad, different circumstances but still understandable, living in fear like that

What are your thoughts on this flag?

It represents oppression. During Apartheid white men and women were forced to undergo sex change operations if they were gay.

That's why all the Afrikaners I met in The Netherlands were gays who received asylum during Apartheid.

Look it up if you think I'm memeing.

Pretty aesthetic, but obviously with boatloads of negative connotations.

>flag within a flag that is part of a group of three flags within a bigger flag

The colour scheme is good but the actual design is full retard.

Flag within a flag is always a shit design.