Arguably one of the most (if not...

The whole world knows who Socrates is, and the people do not, still owe everything to him. What do people outside of the Middle East owe Muhammad?

I guarantee you if I went outside right now and asked people who Socrates was and what his accomplishments were, 95% of people wouldn't have a single clue.

Socrates is as about as influential as vector calculus.
Sure, it's useful as fuck and has helped progress our understanding of the world, but it sure as hell isn't known by the masses.

Like I said, a quarter of the world's population adheres to the very religion that Muhammad created. And over the past 1400 years, so many different empires and civilizations have risen and fallen because of it.

Uh... Socrates is known all around the civilized world. Sure, people in the uncivilized world don't know, but they have no influence outside their mudholes. Muhammed knew who Socrates was.

What makes him more influential than Jesus or other religious figures?

Islam isn't just in the Middle East.
As a matter of fact, the vast majority of Muslims exist OUTSIDE the Middle East.

That is not answering the question. What do people outside of Muslim societies owe to Muhammad? Everyone, including Muslims, owes things to Socrates, the same cannot be said of Muhammad.

But not a single relevant country is muslim.

>things subhumans say

I didn't make the list. Some famous Jewish professor did.
Jesus was in the top 5, however. As was Buddha.
Like I said, if I went outside and asked people what Socrates' accomplishments were, the vast majority of people wouldn't know.
And yes, I'm sure Muhammad did know about Socrates and many other great ancient scholars, philosophers, theologians, etc.

Socrates lead to Plato which led to Aristotle which lead to Aristotelianism which is an immutable influence in early islamic philosophy. Therefore Socrates is an important influence on Islam.
Check
Mate

The thing is you are not talking about who is the most famous person, you are talking about who is the most influential. A person can be influential without being known to people.

You guys can't seem to stop talking about him though.
I'd almost be convinced some of you know more about Islam than Christianity.

1. Plato/Socrates
2. Aristotle
3. Jesus
4. Buddha
5. Muhammed
6. Marx

I would guess there exists more than one list. You didn't mention anything about a list in the OP either. Nice backpaddling though.

>mfw Aristoteles shaped the modern western world
Kinda scary

Hegel should be before Marx desu.

>dutch
>calling other people subhuman
What has this world come to.
Depends which side of history you look from.

If we can attribute every Islamic empire/nation that has ever existed to Muhammad, then we can thereby include the impact of:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_empires_and_dynasties

While empires such as the Abbasid greatly expanded on science and mathematics, the Timurid Empire killed off nearly 5% of the world's population.
Whatever impact, both positive and negative, that has been made from these empires and all the ones that haven't been mentioned, that all leads back to Muhammad.

You could do the same for any religion. What is so interesting about entertaining this thought?

Ok, so how did these empires impact South America, or Korea, or Japan or Australia, or North America? Socrates' philosophy means far more because it has touched every corner of humanity.

Not really, since dialectical materialism was based on Marx and Engels' postulates

Yeah, I suppose that's my fault
I thought everyone knew about it, though. It's a rather famous book, actually. It's a great read. Definitely recommend it.
Author is Michael H. Hart

So what? Islam is based on the word of God, not Muhammad.

By far the most influential person in history was Jesus; even if he didn't do anything personally and it was mostly Paul and Constantine helping the spread of Christianity, he still became indirectly the ideological engine powering Medieval Europe and thus the Western World as we know it.

I don't think any Human being has indirectly influenced so many tragedies, destruction of Kingdoms, loss of cultures, subjugation of natives, as Muhammad.

Just fucking imagine a world where he never existed.

It's interesting to think about the impact that one human could have. Particularly one that was born, lived, and died in one of the most desolate areas in the world.

inb4 "Of course the most influential person in history was a Jew."

Hegel is only influential by virtue of influencing Marx. His othet influences are limited to academic philosophies like phenomenology and postmodernism, the latter of which owes more to Marxism than Hegel. So no, it's like saying Schopenhauer is more influential than Nietzche. Marx completely reshaped the way we talk about culture and economic forever. Before Marx, classes weren't divided based on a materialistic basis, they were based on metaphysical conception or even origin. Marx changed not only the way academics talk, but the way the rabble thinks about society.
t. capitalist

It's kind of impressive

Genghis Khan and co, killed 10% of the world's population

TOP 10:
1. Muhammad
2. Isaac Newton
3. Jesus Christ
4. Buddha
5. Confucius
6. St. Paul
7. Ts'ai Lun
8. Johannes Gutenberg
9. Christopher Columbus
10. Albert Einstein

Tell me what you guys think.

>Before Marx, classes weren't divided based on a materialistic basis
What? Feudalism always divided people like this. Peasants/serfs were peasants/serfs because they were farmers, freedmen lived in merchant cities etc.

I think it's pretty trivial, but each to their own.

Terrible list.

The Timurid Empire was a continuation of the Mongol Empire after they converted to Islam, from henceforth they continued to kill another 5% of the world's population lol.

Central Asians are scum tbqh.

>Newton above Jesus
He was by far probably the most influential scientist within the discipline, but he's not too terribly relevant in society as a whole IMO.

Pretty obvious b8 together with the rest of the thread. You do put in the effort for (You)s though

do me now

Why?
I mean, Isaac Newton is a weird placement.

I think they should have put more ancient figures. Socrates would have fit snug in second place.

While we're on the topic, why isn't Hammurabi there, either? Or any of the other Ancient Middle Easterner rulers?

Wrong. Peasants were so because they served another. Obviously a serf won't be rich, but theoretically he could be rich and still a serf as long as he worked a lord's land in return for something non-monetary (not wages). Nothing abstractly stops a serf from having luxuries if the lord wants it.

To me it looks like somebody just listed some religious figures and some scientists they had heard of. I wouldn't take it as a serious list.

They were still divided upon a material basis. Marx himself makes this argument about feudalism in Das Capital.

Where's Flavius Petrus Sabbatius Iustinianus Augustus aka the guy who did the Corpus Iuris Civilis?

Which is the whole point. Marx is the one that made the distinction.

I didn't make the list, my dude.
It's from a book appropriately titled, 100 Most Influential People of All Time by Michael H. Hart.
So make your own list and post it here.

No, he just wrote about it, the people at the time had already made the distinction themselves.

but user... christianity was directly influenced by plato's ideas, wich were influenced by socrates'.
in other words Socrates still wins kek.

While we're on the topic, I'm sure Socrates was heavily influenced by other nearby philosophers as well.
Perhaps from Ancient Greece or Sumeria.

Hammurabi wins.

>Newton, Confucius, and a bunch of nobodies over Socrates
>no mention of Aristotle

Hillarious. Any influential people list without Aristotle is made by someone that has never taken a history course. To put any scientist or religious figure without even mentioning him is outright retarded

I. Did. Not. Make. This. List.
Holy fuck.

No, they hadn't. You take for granted the terminology Marx ingrained. The word ideology as we know it comes from Marx as well. Ordering history through a materialist lense is all Marx. Read history written prior to Marx, very different.

While I do agree that Pauline and Thomist Christianity were based on Socrates, the common man in the Middle Ages was electrified by, and participated in Crusades for, Jesus rather than Socrates. Then again, modern Christianity has as much to do with the Historical Jesus as the movie Cars has to do with actual cars.

DID. I. MAKE. FUN. OF. YOU. ?.
NO.
I. MADE. FUN. OF. THE. LIST.
AUTIST

By the way:
Aristotle was at #13

and Socrates didn't even make it to the top 100 LOOL!

>Newton at #2
Clearly written for children

You and Brit-user conviced me.

Socrates/Hammurabi should've shared #2.
Newton should have been all the way down at like #34 or some shit.

>no really this is what subhumans think

He did not make the list, my swampbro

Even for a toothpaste you sure are bitter

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. It may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First Muhammad played a far more important role to the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity; St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition he played a key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran. [The Quran, Muslims believe, is the revealed Word of God.]

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular leader as well as a religious leader. In fact as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. . . [When Muhammad died in 632, he was the effective leader of all of southern Arabia. By 711, Arab armies had swept completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean. In a scant century of fighting, the Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of India to the Atlantic Ocean -- the largest empire that the world had yet seen.]

. . the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."

What's the reasoning for Newton?

And yet the city that he considered holy above all others and that he fought and bled for, is not considered a heritage of mankind site by UNESCO, not because we wouldn't acknowledge and inscribe it there but because this man's followers, aka Muslims will not allow those not of their faith to visit it.

What does this say in terms of this man being a benefactor for all mankind?

had gengis khan developed a religion of his own, he'd be the most influential

He would need to have not only developed a religion that convinced people to join in the first place, but he would also need to have maintained his empire whilst spreading the religion.
One of the main reasons behind the success of the Mongol Empire was the fact that they tolerated religious beliefs of their subjects. Often, Mongols would even convert to the religions of the people they conquered.

The fact of the matter, however, is that the total area that Muhammad himself had conquered is less than the area of Texas.

You look at the map in the OP and you realize how tiny his empire was. Yet in spite of all of this, he was able to muster up a legacy of conquerors who were able to sustain the religion for centuries.
It just says "Many mathematical and scientific discoveries"
Total bullshit imho.