/comp/ - Composition General

obviously you start with the cello beacuse it's the backbone of the trio

i like to start writing in descending order
so first I write the whole notes
maybe a middle C or something, then I go to half, quarter notes, and from there I go to eighth, sixteenth, 32nd and 64th notes

after you have an outline of what you want and you've got your tone row you can move on to the violin and viola or the two violins or whatever

you should make sure that it's an iterative process, I take lots of inspiration from cage so I like to involve a considerable amount of chance operations in determining things like pitch and rhythm
and of course drinking lots of black tea helps with this

remember, you can't tune a piano but you can't tuna fish

Fuck I know exactly what you mean

I see, I see.

I know that was a joke but I actually have something I want to ask about
>obviously you start with the cello because it's the backbone of the trio
Being a cellist myself, I'm kind of worried my view of the other two instruments is skewed by my perspective. I don't want to write a cello sonata with violin and viola accompaniment, I also don't want to write a duet for violin and viola with cello accompaniment. I also don't want to write a piece for three cellos arranged for string trio, and I definitely don't want to write a solo piano piece arranged for string trio.

So I mean, what are the unique qualities of the string trio (violin, viola, cello)?

Has studying music actually made you happier?

what the hell is that pic

Also yes.

>That constant fear that you are just copying something from the back of your mind, you simply don't remember what piece it belongs to

It has me made more excited for the chance to produce my own music, so yes. The bad part is dealing first with how to produce something decent.

thank goodness I ended my practice early enough to bump the thread.

happened to me recently. This one thing I've been knocking around in my head for years, then I listen to
youtube.com/watch?v=2YAzUC6LzNk
and at 9:38 it's right there plain as day, unaltered.

...

It allowed me to write really beautiful music and hear it played and recorded by real performers, which makes me very happy, so yes.

It allows me to write fugues pretty easily and that is extremely rewarding, I feel happy when I listen back to them.

Have you tried composing on guitar pro? I find it the easiest

...

This

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I'd be down to a song challenge more than a 12 tone one, I guess. What lyrics do we take?

What did he mean by this?

I was assuming an art song challenge implies taking some poem or other lyrics and start from there, no?

That's lame

Does /comp/ only discuss how to compose classical, jazz and folk?

it does, wordsetting is an art, one every decent composer must master.

how is that lame? lyrics are poetry. choose a poem and set it.

I say we set a standard poem for everyone to set, you'd be surprised at the different approaches composers take to the same text.

Only problem with this challenge is its slightly harder to present an accurate recording for the composers who can't sing or dont have singer friends willing to record a part. Its still a great idea for a challenge though. Just need to decide on a text. Ideally a pre-1950s poem. some Schubert or Strauss 4 last songs tier poetry

Thats the idea. we discuss how to write music via written scores. folk isn't really included, moreso that we take ideas from folk/traditional music and turn them into art music/classical in a score. Ethnomusicology style

Well, anyone is free to suggest something more interesting. Previously there was the idea of a collab piece, where we'd take turns writing parts of a piece, like 4 to 8 bars at a time.

Not at all, just some of us, including myself, have not the slightest clue about modern or popular music. As for me, jazz is the epitome of the latest fashion...

Is learning how to read sheet music mandatory to learn how to compose classical?

Suggestion for wordsetting challenge:

poetryconnection.net/poets/Joseph_Freiherr_Von_Eichendorff/9004

You could use the English translation or the german to be trve lieder kvlt

Anything by Eichendorff would be decent

Kinda like asking "is learning to read written english mandatory for writing literature". But don't worry, it's really not that hard, easier than learning to read Japanese id say.

yes. you're not a composer until you can communicate directly to performers via written score. Learning sheet music also allows you to study the music of the masters and learn their secrets / internalize their techniques.

You can still technically "compose" without knowing how to read sheet music, but you wont be a very good composer, and anyone in the classical world would laugh at you if they found out. Also you'd need to pay an orchestrator to prepare all your pieces if you ever wanted a live performance or non-computer-generated recording

Wasn't here this German user who studies voice stuff? Male him sing our shit and I'll donate him some beer or something.

So I've got to the point where i no longer give a fuck about order and structure because whenever i try and create systems to compose it just ends up sounded super constrained and shitty

basically i just listen to a lot of scelsi then try and write onto the page/into finale

help????

nothing wrong with that mate. a composers ears and attention span should be the only judge of form and order. fuck the police

yeah - i guess im sick of trying to be a modernist and now i have to learn how to trust my intuition which i haven't done for a veryyyy long time

Ok, I guess I'll finally have to do it, I've been writing music for guitar for about 4 years now on software like
I've mostly written for modern genres like metal and math rock though, and recently I got a big interest in classical and jazz harmony

that gives me an idea for a style based challenge.

Classical people have to do a modern style piece and vice versa.

Personally I think it needs to be in English (or whatever your native language is) for the best result. The composer must know, natively, what each of those words mean, how each of those words feel and resound, how the phrases flow.

I kind of suggest different anons look for their own poems for this reason. Personally as far as English goes I recommend Tennyson, his stuff is very formally clear yet prosodically very interesting.

It's important to both read the poem out loud and if possible find a good reading of it online (especially one without some intrusive background music stapled on). Hearing how the orator shapes those words and phrases is important in setting them to music.

Like this for example:
youtube.com/watch?v=GFBCvf7RG6M
or
youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKcqraRdfs

Reading it over and over yourself out loud is a must. Note how the words feel in your mouth. It's always good to familiarize yourself with an instrument you're writing for, and everyone has a voice.

bump

who is she

>writing
>music
ayy l.

Did classical composers write music by improvising or was their sight reading that good that they already knew what would sound good before even putting it on paper?

Depends on the specific composer, but usually they used a combination of improv and theory.

The theory would inform their improv, and they would hone their improv to a point where they were improvising (somewhat) within the standard structure of their time, and then use those ideas to write the piece from, using theory to make sure the melodies, chords, counterpoint and overall form were correct and functioned properly, as well as making sure the piece was dynamic and held attention.

Many composers did have excellent sight reading and could easily tell if something would sound good just by looking at it.

go back to posting your waifus in your Kpop thread and wasting your life doing nothing productive, friend.

>writing music
>something productive
first ai will come for the truck drivers, next it will come for you

Should I perfect my sight reading to that level before I start composing or should I learn reading sheet music because it will help me analyse the classical pieces?

sight reading (as in see sheet music and play it instantly without practicing before) implies being able to read music...

...

who are some good jewish composers?

>inb4 all jewish memes

But your ayylmaopop shit is already done by ai chinks. Meanwhile art is never going to.

learn sheet music, learn to play piano, then learn about composition through a book or going to university / college. Its the best way. That or read some books - check the OP

There are already AI for writing music, but they can only write in the style of old composers, they cannot be original... yet...

Dr. Shekel

>muh art
>muh sacred art
get a grip on yourself, man

neither can people, really. there's only a finite amount of possible musics of a finite length. composing isn't really doing anything new, just picking apples from a tree. sometimes you get something fresh, and sometimes you get something that just grew in after getting picked last year

nah you're completely wrong user. Only severely uncreative people believe that nothing new can be created.

People in the 1300s thought plainchant was the high point of musical expression - but we've come a long way from the single modal line.

There aren't even any limits anymore, there are an infinite number of variations of note spacings you can put in an octave - doesn't have to be 12 tones like 12TET music. And thats just the scale you start with, the actual notes you pick and the rhythms, harmony, form, dynamics, orchestration, electronics/effects, extended techniques, non-musical elements, audience participation, word-setting, .... music is literally infinite if you're creative enough to do whatever you want.

>he fell for the music is infinite meme

A meme is simply a non-genetic idea passed from person to person.

All art forms are infinite, you just have to be creative to be original.

what is this cartoon girlwoman from

>implying there are genetic ideas

hes played outright too much assasins creed

no, you can be original without being creative
>take katy perry song
>change one word
>get original song

In pitch alone there are an infinite number of pitches between C3 and C4.

and if i took a pitch from that set and played it for you followed by another could you tell me if they were different pitches or not?