Regardless of your religious beliefs (or lack of them). Do you believe The Metal music and culture could be considered...

Regardless of your religious beliefs (or lack of them). Do you believe The Metal music and culture could be considered, by Christian standards, satanic?

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youtu.be/amNo0Sng-Zk
antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/atoms/faq/are-atoms-real.shtml
m.phys.org/news/2013-05-first-ever-high-resolution-images-molecule-reforms.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Diver
humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
evolutionfaq.com/articles/five-proofs-evolution
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>satanic
Maybe in the LaVeyan sense, that is, atheism/agnosticism/paganism guided by a rejection of christian values. Otherwise, not really. Very few metal bands that are legit deistic satanism

coming from a religious background, most catholics that believe metal is satanic only do so because it just TALKS about satanism, and going by that logic, the bible is just as satanic, if not more

The thing is that, under christian values, the guys doing it dont even have to be conscious about it for it to be satanic. Having bands named black sabbath, or judas priest, obviously makes your genre not-christian.

Also, holy diver depicts satan killing a priest, thats pretty satanic to me.

The thing is that metal depicts satanism in a position of power, whereas the bible only retells things

Think about it though, if you were actually a deistic satanist, in the position of, say, ozzy or iron maiden, wouldnt you'd pretend NOT to be a satanist and that youre only fooling around to attract people to your satanic art?

We live in the 21st century and if you still believe that there's an invisible man in the sky, something is definitely wrong with you. Do you also believe that there's a red man down there who is waiting for you after you die?

> the guys doing it dont even have to be conscious about it for it to be satanic. Having bands named black sabbath, or judas priest, obviously makes your genre not-christian.
So yes, there's a huge rejection of christianity within some genres of metal, particularly black metal. So to answer your original question I suppose that a very religious hardliner christian would consider many metal bands satanic; however, other christians would probably understand that the music is often a secular rejection of christian values - presented in an extreme way for shock value.

Why not?
Most people believe in atomic physics despite never having seen an atom.

"Regardless of religious beliefs"

Black sabbath and judas aint black metal though.

And a rejection of christian values is basically anti christian, i.e satanic

Not in a deistic sense. I guess it could be depending on how much of a fundamentalist you are. Some Christians believe literally all secular music is Satanic

>It's the current year!
I'm an atheist, but you're a faggot

>CURRENT YEAR
Except we have tangible proof of the atomic theory. We don't have that for the existence of a higher power

>Black sabbath and judas aint black metal though.
That's why I said "particularly"
>And a rejection of christian values is basically anti christian, i.e satanic
I disagree that something that is anti-christian is necessarily satanic. Furthermore, I think that someone who disagrees with the catholic church's interpretation of christ's teachings is necessarily anti-christian.

Honestly I don't really see where you're going with this. Are you trying to make a point? is there something that concerns you?

There's no such thing as "tangible proof" of something that, by definition, can't be registered by touch or by any sense. There's only extremely indirect clues, and mathematical abstractions.
And the scientific method doesn't rely on proofs, just on indications.

Im Christian.

I listen to metal, I dont believe metal is inherently satanic, but I do have my own "Limits", I dont listen to explicitly satanic metal bands, so black metal is pretty much a no-go for me.

Also, I avoid some songs and bands which are obviously satanic in nature, i.e mr crowley and holy diver.

But I dont think the musicians are satanist, or even bad guys, since I believe we all make mistakes but we still have good in our hearts. The drummer from iron maiden is christian and actually plays in a small church when he's not on tour and dave mustaine is a born again christian, who went on to admit that he was a deistic satanist who even casted curses on people and the guy even refuses to play songs which he KNOWS are satanic (even if other people dont think so) because he doesnt roll with that shit anymore.

>someone who disagrees with the catholic church's interpretation of christ's teachings is necessarily anti-christian.
*isn't. fuark.

it's all imagery that our puny, worthless human minds can comprehend, a barest scrape of what's really out there...

>I disagree that something that is anti-christian is necessarily satanic.
Well by definition, it's evil, and I don't think the christian dogma has different flavors of evil.

>Current year
Regardless of that, why can't you prove that Jesus really exists?

Why can't you prove that molecules really exist?

AFAIK within christian dogma satan is the only being beyond god's light. everyone else can be redeemed. So there's two levels right there - satan and worshipers of satan are two different types of evil.

Not that I think metal bands are literally worshiping satan.

A bunch of them very literally worship Satan.

Which ones?

Aside from black metal guys.

Manson said he doesnt actually cares about the church of satanism, despite being considered an honorary member. And from king diamond's interviews you can easily tell he's just an edgy atheist, not an actual satanist.

>Do you also believe that there's a red man down there who is waiting for you after you die?
why's he red?

>Aside from black metal guys
>Aside from metal that's specifically satanic
Well then I guess I'm gonna have to bring up Deicide I guess.

>A bunch of them very literally worship Satan.
a very small number, yes. Don't listen to them if it bothers you

Well everyone knows that black metal IS satanic, its literally the point of black metal, the number one requisite: "be satanic".

So in a thread asking wheter metal was satanic or not, I thought counting black metal was a bit redundant.

Morbid Angel to an extent too

Yeah but counting it out is stupid, you just explained why.

>Deicide's edgy "troll religion" version of Satanism

>Archgoat's "huh yeah we're satanists bro"

>Dissection/Watain's literally made-up religion

So far I still think the only metal bands with actively harmful beliefs/message are the racist ones, and even those bands are never involved with anything violent.

There's a lot of black metal that isn't Satanic. Even Mayhem's beliefs were more pagan than satanic, and many of their lyrics dealt with other topics like gore and medieval horror.

I just like metal for the music, I don't buy into that satan shit. It pisses me off to see people with half their head shaved and piercings all over wearing "smoke meth hail satan" shirts. It's cringeworthy

How delusional can you be?
Saying bad things about christians isn't gonna do shit so it doesn't count, but saying bad shit about blacks and jews is magically gonna harm them so it counts as evil?

>Dissection/Watain's literally made-up religion
Right, cause christianity totally isn't a made-up religion. It has always existed, Jesus and his apostles and the council of Nicea had nothing to do with it.

because the racist stuff is connected with real life violence

there's nothing harmful about misogynistic slam death metal bands either fwiw

There's plenty of black metal that doesn't reference christianity even once. Is Kabuki theatre satanic because it exalts a non-christian culture despite the art form being developed before anybody in Japan knew what christianity is?
If there is a particular band that has lyrics you don't agree with - don't listen to them. I don't understand what you're trying to do with this thread.

Metal was always atheistic and nihilistic at its core. Sometimes misanthropic. The actual religious satanism can be found in like 4 bands I know of. The symbolism is just to antagonize and shock. It's anti-religion, not pro-Satan.

>because the racist stuff is connected with real life violence
Yeah, on a metaphysical level. You know, the level where God exists.

>a religion made up by a couple of braindead metal dudes and accepted by literally nobody else is on the same level as a religion with documentation and hundreds of millions of adherents.
M8 even Scientology is more credible than Dissection's stuff.

...

Stop being hypocritical just because you think I'm a christfag. Kabuki theatre technically IS satanic because it's a product of a pagan culture, and you know that's how it works.

I didn't know Christians were sent to concentration camps.

I think anything and everything should be open to blasphemy. Allowing any kind of religious iconography any kind of "real" power allows large, power-hungry religious organizations to take hold and control people too much. Religion should be about feelings and spirituality, not rules and iconographic ritualism.

Oh, nice job moving those goalposts, now it's not about religions being "made-up", it's about them being "credible".

I see, I see.

Well since anticosmic gnosticism is actually a syncretic system, you can approach it from a scientologic perspective if you want.

I don't think you're OP. If you are, it's clear your mind is made up so dunno why you would even post the question.

I didn't know saying "gas all kikes" was a magical formula that had the power to transport a current-day jew to an extradimensional concentration camp.

Fancy that.

I didn't post any question I just called you out on your bullshit.

what bullshit?

Racist metal refers to real-life historic violence against minorities and says they approve of that violence. There is still racism in modern society, so this is dangerous.

Songs about sacrificing Christians to Satan or killing whores in ott ways are not approving of any real-life violence.

this

>Songs about sacrificing Christians to Satan or killing whores in ott ways are not approving of any real-life violence.
Yes.
Yes they are.


>Racist metal refers to real-life historic violence against minorities and says they approve of that violence. There is still racism in modern society, so this is dangerous.

That's a pretty complex magical system you're working with.
So in order for the ritual to work, I need to say "gas all kikes" while concentrating my inner view on an actual event, and then telepathically channel my evil intent through the minds of people who agree with that intent.
That's pretty complicated but not that different from what I read about chaos magick.

>That's a pretty complex magical system you're working with.
>So in order for the ritual to work, I need to say "gas all kikes" while concentrating my inner view on an actual event, and then telepathically channel my evil intent through the minds of people who agree with that intent.
>That's pretty complicated but not that different from what I read about chaos magick.
This is such a petty point. Obviously there's no magic words bullshit, but these bands are supporting real life violent events that have happened.

Can you name even one interview where a metal band supports violence against Christians/women/anyone else? Someone can still hate a group of people and still not seriously hope those people are all killed. Plenty of Republicans and Democrats viciously hate each other, but you'd be hard pressed to find ones that are literally campaigning to get the other side killed.

Saying that theres black metal that isnt satanic is like saying that there are automobiles without engines.

Black metal literally started out as a synonymous for "satanic metal".

Much like "horror punk", its just a name used to describe a band style, but no actual musical characteristic that sets it apart from its main genre.

The burden of proof is on you and theists.

Science has nothing to do with faith. Faith is blindly believing that something is true without any evidence.

Beats me. That's the way he's been portrayed for all these years.

Memes are not a valid argument.

So they're supporting those real life violent events with words that AREN'T even magical?

How does that count as support?

If I were a neo-nazi trying to start a race war I'd dismiss NSBM as a bunch of limp-dick hypocrites.

And I'm pretty sure I've seen a Satanic Warmaster interview where the dude supports violence against christians. Also a Mysticum one. Among others.

The burden of proof is on anyone who claims that something exists.

I never claimed Jesus existed, so the burden of proof is still on theists.

Because TV and your physics classes count as evidence now?

youtu.be/amNo0Sng-Zk
If you want to be associated with these kind of people, what can I say - suit yourself. And again, I never claimed Jesus exists, so the burden of proof is still on you.

Joke's on you I'm not even a christfag.

antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/atoms/faq/are-atoms-real.shtml
m.phys.org/news/2013-05-first-ever-high-resolution-images-molecule-reforms.html

>Also, holy diver depicts satan killing a priest, thats pretty satanic to me.
The cover features the band mascot, Murray spinning chains around waves where a man with a priest or minister's collar in chains is floating. Dio was quick to argue that appearances are misleading, that it could just as easily be a priest killing a devil, wanting people not to "judge a book by its cover"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Diver

It doesn't matter which God you believe in - you still haven't provided any proof. Avoiding the argument is not something I'd call evidence.

this is an image generated by machines designed specifically to create them.
There's most likely *something* that made those machines react. But I have no reason to trust the guys who tell us "oh yeah these are totally atoms and molecules".

Why did you ignore this link?
antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/atoms/faq/are-atoms-real.shtml

Because it's vague, elusive and conceivably a bunch of lies. You know, like the Bible.

I know you're most likely baiting at this point, but please, enlighten me and tell me why molecules don't exist.

Because they make slightly less sense than western alchemy.

Still waiting for an opinion that's not just yours.

>if many people agree on something it becomes true
That's not quite how common sense works.

So, all scientists are wrong just because you think you deduced something using your common sense?

What else do you think? That the climate change isn't real? That the Holocaust never happened?

Wow They Make A Lot Of Good Points! I'm Convinced! Hahah You Just Showed Me That They Aren't Stupid, You Are! Where's The Evidence?

Still waiting for evidence for the existance of Jesus. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Still Waiting For The Evidence of Evolution. The Burden Of Proof Is On You.

I'm not sure why I even bother anymore, since you didn't bother either...
humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
evolutionfaq.com/articles/five-proofs-evolution

Don't know much about christianity so I might be completely full of shit but isn't the idea of a "hell" not actually in the bible and just some bullshit made up by the church, and in actuality the fallen angel is the good guy because he's basically a Prometheus archetype?

Theologian here.

Hell is mentioned in the bible but not the way popular culture makes it out to be (with hellfire or anything). It is simply considered to be the place where God is not, so anyone who does not want God chooses to go there. This is what the Church teaches. Obviously we have a limited conception of the afterlife and how God would interact with us but that is the understanding. Also Satan does not live in hell, Satan is more so a spirit that leads people to temptation (CS Lewis' Screwtape letters is a good understanding of this). The idea of Satan being a "good guy" comes from modern day readings of John Milton's Paradise Lost, which really just paints him as an angsty teenager more than anything, but people like this idea of reading him as a good guy.