/BLINDFOLD TEST/

Welcome to the weekly Cred Forums jazz Blindfold Test thread. Every Friday and Saturday.

This thread is the 1 year anniversary of the start of the /BLINDFOLD TEST/ threads!

If you're new, the point of these threads is to have fun and encourage critical listening, discussion, and general enjoyment of jazz. All critical music listeners are welcome. The more participation we have, the more fun and successful these threads will be. In the interest of keeping the thread alive and bumped, any general jazz discussion is welcomed here as well.

For more information about how the threads work and listening suggestions, please refer to the pastebin: pastebin.com/UiCCG28N

THIS WEEK'S THEME: The Music of Joe Henderson
COMPILED BY: JTG

NEXT WEEK: ???
COMPILED BY: ???

If you missed last week's thread, DON'T WORRY. It's not too late. Here are the links for the mystery tracklist. Download the tracks, record your thoughts/guesses/evaluations for each one, and then come back and post them in the thread. Remember, people will be posting guesses and thoughts in this thread so don't read the thread until you have listened to the music and collected your thoughts in order to avoid spoilers. Track info for this week's tracks will be posted on Saturday, so if you see the thread is close to dying before then, give it a bump.

www5.zippyshare.com/v/dAGv7Qja/file.html

Posting with names or tripcodes is encouraged as it makes discussion much easier.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=7sj7l9jJwGE
www71.zippyshare.com/v/XNBQSght/file.html
open.spotify.com/track/1ekF7PFtKcNIDYovHVeSfR
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

1. This sax player’s sound makes me think of Joe Henderson even though I know that’s the theme and the piano sounds like someone influenced by McCoy Tyner. Once the piano solo gets started it all sounds too polite and safe. The drum solo was also kind of lame but I like the sax player. So this one was just too safe sounding to be a good tribute to Joe Henderson. 2.5 stars.

2. Clarinet and vibes makes a pretty interesting combination. I like the sound. I don’t recognize the song but I like it. It sounds like this is probably a cool rendition. Both solos are pretty good, I like the clarinet solo and the drummer playing some cool things too. I like when they go into the jungle type feel in the percussion solo. It reminds me of Art Blakey. 3.5 stars for this one.

3. This is probably the only Joe Henderson composition I will recognize. It’s Inner Urge. Could it be McCoy Tyner? I liked the early part better where he was soloing with the low notes. Still this is pretty good for a solo piano version and pretty short. It’s probably not Tyner, but I don’t know who it is. 3.5 stars.

4. I actually know this one too. It’s Blue Bossa. It sounds like a pretty basic arrangement but this vibes solo is impressive. Nice guitar solo too. It makes me think of Jim Hall or Joe Pass. So this one seemed very basic but the solos were pretty good. 3 stars.

5. This one was slow to get started but then once the whole big band comes in it’s kind of cool. I wasn’t really feeling the trombone solo at first but then it changed part way through and got a lot more exciting. It sounds like the trombonist from the Dave Holland quintet. I can’t remember his name right now. This took a while to get going but I liked the second half a lot. 3 stars.

6. I recognize this one but I forget the name. More vibes. It seems like we’ve had a lot of that this week. I liked that the vibe solo built up to being kind of free. Reminds me of Bobby Hutchinson Blue Note stuff. The piano and sax interplay was cool too. This was probably my favorite of the week so far. I liked the ending. 4 stars.

7. This one reminds me of Wes Montgomery or Grant Green and those 60’s organ trio albums. This one didn’t do very much for me. There was a part of the organ solo where he was doing cool chords but the rest seemed like “look how fast I can play.” 2.5 stars.

8. This one sounds kind of hard bop. Maybe it’s one that Henderson didn’t actually write. The bass solo wasn’t too bad as far as bass solos go. This sounds like Chris Potter on sax. Nice drumming too. The trumpet solo started out not that good but then it got better. The piano solo wasn’t that great. My favorite parts were the sax solo and the drumming overall. 3 stars.

9. It sounds like two different sax players. And no piano or guitar. This first sax solo has a pretty modern sound that reminds me of Chris Potter too. It’s pretty impressive playing but it started to get kind of long winded. I like that the second player has a way different sound. The contrast of sounds was cool but I would have liked this a lot better if it was half as long. 3 stars.

10. This sounds pretty Blue Note influenced. It sounds like they’re going for more of a bebop sound in their solos though. The trumpet and trombone solos were my favorite. Conrad Herwig is the only trombonist who I’ve heard play like this so I’ll guess it’s him. Nice overall but it felt a little bit safe. 3 stars.

Catching a couple of live sets at the local club. I'll be in the thread in three hours or so...

>2
>It reminds me of Art Blakey.
The drummer does have a connection to Blakey

>3
>Nice guitar solo too. It makes me think of Jim Hall or Joe Pass.
On the right track here

>4
>It sounds like the trombonist from the Dave Holland quintet.
Nice catch

>Conrad Herwig is the only trombonist who I’ve heard play like this so I’ll guess it’s him
Another nice catch. I'm glad people recognize him.

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Ambassador Satch was asking last week what were some favorites we've discovered from past playlists and I thought of a few more. I think Jazzpossu turned me on to this one from 2016

Bump

Alrighty. First listen comments coming up.

Initial thought: I know very few tunes that I'd consider "Joe Henderson"-connected. Blue Bossa, Tress-Cun-Deo-La, If are pretty much the only ones that come to mind.

I thought of prepping a little this week and listened to In 'n Out - much stronger A Love Supreme -flavor than I remembered with Elvin and McCoy playing just like with 'Trane, but somehow it's just not as good for me.

Onto this week then:

1: I've certainly heard the original. Probably McCoy on piano in the original, piano and sax seem pretty faithful, but a much more recent recording.

Mode for Joe, I think this tune is. Treble heavy sound, not enjoying the sound quality of this one really - the drummer would deserve better than this. Is he the leader here?

Oh hey, I know where this is from actually - Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion. I hadn't really listened to Walton until he died a few years ago and people I know turned me on to this album - this is a pretty great album, great cover art, too.

2: Pretty exotic stuff - latin percussion with a clarinet is not that common, I don't think. Don't think I recognize the tune.

I'm sure this is a pretty out-there connection, but the clarinet playing reminds me of Chris Speed a bit before the vibes solo.

I have a hard time connecting to this music - makes me think of that Rodriguez Brothers Criss Cross -album jtg had on a /blindfold/ once.

3: I'm sure I know this tune. Composition is pretty deep in the Wayne Shorter territory - not a bad thing. Something from Henderson's Blue Note releases, I'm pretty sure.

To be honest, Henderson feels like someone who was trying to emulate Coltrane and Shorter, but he was still pretty good at it.

Some this century American pianist - no strong guesses. Pretty good version, I think, feels like this gets good mileage out of the composition - stays true, but still feels exploratory.

4: Bossa feel. Oh yeah, Blue Bossa it is.

This has to be one of the earliest jazz standards I have been able to recognize - I know I've been familiar with this before I really started listening to jazz.

Who could this be? Guitar has that Joe Pass-like feel with super slick technique while maintaining nice swinging atmosphere. Makes me think of those Pass-NHÖP duets with a vibraphone added. I thought at first this was a pretty recent thing, but after the guitar solo I'm guessing this is from the 70's?

Pretty good - a little too technique-oriented, though.

5: This sounds pretty interesting. Cool ensemble sound, I dig it.

If Steve Lehman's Octet decided to play it straight one day (and got a pianist and were secretly led by the trombonist) they might sound something like this.

Not digging the soloing as much as the initial sound. Absolutely no idea of the tune.

I'd really like to hear Steve Lehman Octet cover this, actually, with some more fire in the soloing - could be really cool.

I was also thinking Joe Pass on that track

What do I need to know to be able to get the best out of jazz(as in theory, glossary etc.)

6: Bobby Hutcherson RIP

This people really like to sound like a 60's Blue Note album, but appears like a more recent recording.

I don't know if this is Hutcherson on vibes or not, but at least the influence is heavy as all fuck. He was so much ahead of the vibes game in the 60's.

The sax solo is pretty exciting. It's an odd thing that in small doses or live settings I can really dig contemporary American players like Joe Lovano or Jerry Bergonzi who play in this tradition, but there just don't seem to be any albums from those guys that I'd really like.

This has that feel for me when individually there's a lot of stuff I love here, but when the reveal comes I'll check out the album and maybe listen to it once. It's odd.

The sax at the end is hinting at a familiar melody, can't think of the original though. Chances are high it's something from those 60's Henderson Blue Note's (I guess this goes for the whole playlist with no listening required, but...).

7: Fairly contemporary organ stuff, I guess. Sam Yahel or someone like that or maybe even a recent Dr. Lonnie album or something.

I think this is one of those things that is kind of trying to sound like some Grant Green-Larry Young type 60's thing, but is more recent than that. Contemporary players have great chops and can make stuff feels effortless at faster tempos.

These guys wish they had made Larry Young's Unity - it still feels to me like the gold standard of this kind of stuff (and Henderson plays on it!). I hope they were paid by the note - otherwise they played too many.

Just listen hard t b h and it doesn't really matter what else you know

Are you sure? You guys here make quite big posts when criticising so it can't be just that.

8: I'm sure the chronology works the wrong way, but the first thing this made me think of was some old Clifford Brown-Max Roach stuff.

I like the bass solo. Dude is just playing his ass off, not caring about people not always liking bass solos. That's how you make a bass solo work - very nicely done.

No bells ringing for anything Henderson related, the sax solo feels really generic after the unusually nice bass solo, too.

Man, the trumpet guy is all over the place and I have no idea what he's trying to accomplish.

This felt pretty awkward to me - as if these guys are just trying to copy a style of playing they don't really get - like a talented student band or something.

9: Very cool contrast between the sax players. This is the kind of track you can play to someone doubting the expressive range of sax.

I like that kind of unhinged, avant-gardeish feel going in to the first sax solo - feels a bit like Dolphy's Out to Lunch with that bass just walking away it's own silly walk. Very nice solo and I really like how the bass and drums accompany it.

Really cool transition into the solo of the smoother sax guy, too. I'm really digging how these guys make these different styles of playing work together - fantastic stuff!

Remarkable style! I think this is easily the most impressive track of the week - that combining of the sax players style's just feels incredibly well done - I'll listen to more of these guys for sure.

10: Hey, it's If.

I originally know this from Unity, but I had the version from Joe Zawinul's Money in the Pocket for a long time on my latest Connecting Links /blindfold/ before opting for a more recognizable Cannonball -track to make Zawinul easier to figure out.

The piano player is playing too many notes. His solo is quite boring.

These guys have all had too much coffee for me. Just feels jumpy for little reason to me.

It's a good tune and this is fairly enjoyable, but feels like too jumpy for me.

Final thoughts:
Pretty enjoyable /blindfold/ overall - I recognized tunes a little better than I initially feared, I think. Track 9 was fantastic.

All in all, I think Henderson's 70's stuff like The Elements and Multiple is a little underrated - while his 60's stuff might feel like poor man's Shorter or Coltrane, the 70's stuff is very strong in that style.

I also have an almost complete, but very sacrilegious playlist ready for next week, I'll let you guys decide if it's worth it or not...

Theme would be "Playing With Myself", tracks where at least one musician plays multiple parts, whether it's by overdubbing, looping or playing multiple instruments.

Certainly antithetic to the spirit of jazz and contains some tracks that have very tenuous connections to jazz, but something I find interesting nevertheless.

Other than that, I could probably cook up a "European ECM" list for next week if no one else has anything.

Let's do the playing with myself one. Sounds cool and it's always fun to actually have harsh criticisms

I certainly think it's a very interesting topic to build discussions on topics like what "jazz is at it's best" around and also something that I think is a great starting point for talking about why rock overtook jazz as the cool, deep music to like in the 60's even though much of the greatest jazz ever recorded was being made at the time.

So if we do go with that, I'd like to encourage everyone to dig a little deeper into the theme and it's implications.

So what are you guys listening to right now or expecting in terms of live gigs?

Next week Vijay Iyer is coming here to Helsinki to play two sets at the new local cross-genre club space and I'm really excited to see him in a more intimate environment - probably catching both sets. Also Sibelius Academy is hosting their yearly jazz festival two weeks from now that gives students and alumni a chance to perform with international guests - pianist Aaron Goldberg and Italian guitarist Pasquale Grasso are the star guests this year.

I also feel like I'm drowning in cool new releases - there just seems to be a ton of stuff to check out.

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really cool to see someone digging these pretty obscure selections from my /blindfold/s!

I've personally definitely made an effort to get into the contemporary American jazz fan frame of mind through jtg's choices - Zhenya Strigalev is at least someone who I've bought now multiple physical copies of albums from due to these threads

It's such a complex web of things - liking and understanding jazz - that it's hard to say. I've certainly known that every time I see an album mentioned somewhere I follow, I make an unconscious mental note of it at least.

There have been many albums that I've heard mentioned elsewhere that I've remembered from /blindfold/s and I'm pretty sure I've picked up vinyl copies of things due to having them be mentioned in these threads.

I'm certainly satisfied picking up a 5 euro copy of almost any album just because I remember a track from it from a blindfold.

>Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion
Didn't think anybody would get this one.

>To be honest, Henderson feels like someone who was trying to emulate Coltrane and Shorter, but he was still pretty good at it
I don't know that he was necessarily trying to emulate Shorter, but definitely Coltrane to some extent. I think Henderson's original music definitely has an individual style, characterized mostly by interval lov leaping id say.

interesting, I have multiple jazz record collector -type friends who were all about that album when Walton passed away, so I've been kind of thinking of it as an accepted classic ever since

you're probably correct, but Henderson just occupies that weird space for me where he is not an undeniable legend saxophonist or composer like Shorter or Coltrane, but still too prominent to be a "cool more underground alternative" player to dig like Jackie McLean for example. He is undeniably one of the great 60's post-bop sax players id you're not limited to 1 or 2 choices, I'd say.

As said, I do think that Multiple and The Elements are some of the best albums in their style and age, so Joe has those going for him in my books regardless.

It is Pass as you guys noticed. Not NHOP, but definitely somebody that NHOP was always compared to when he played in this style.

>I'd really like to hear Steve Lehman Octet cover this
Was it you who saw Lehman live recently? How was that group live? I'm a bit surprised you'd be into that group. Then again I can never really predict what you're going to like or not like on my playlists.

Didn't see Lehman yet, but will be seeing him in a month and I did post about seeing him

Yeah, I agree that listening deeply is the most important thing. Trying to play jazz (and learning the theory in the process) is probably the best ways to get into the mindset of really listening deep, but it's definitely not a necessity.

Once you find an album that you really like, you should be able to listen to it over and over again and hear new stuff in the music every time.

Reading liner notes or reviews of albums you like or dislike can be good too. Pay attention to the way they describe the music and see if you can identify in the music what they're talking about.

>Remarkable style! I think this is easily the most impressive track of the week - that combining of the sax players style's just feels incredibly well done - I'll listen to more of these guys for sure.
See, I figured you and probably most everyone else wouldn't like this track. I'd say this one comes the closest to sounding like "an academic exercise" but with basically flawless execution.

>Hey, it's If.
I didn't think anybody would recognize this track either. This is a Henderson tune that I'm less familiar with but I think I'd probably recognize it from Unity on a blind listen.

Multiple is definitely an underrated fusion masterpiece and one of Henderson's best. I once saw somebody who said about Henderson's Blue Note albums that it you took all the tracks from the album and re-arranged them that you could make one great hard bop record, one great modal jazz record, one great post-bop record, and one great Latin Jazz record and I think that's pretty accurate. None of his Blue Note records is quite perfect but they all have some great high points. Plus his sideman game on Blue Note is on point.

My perception might be a little bit skewed because in high school I studied piano with a guy who grew up with Henderson and Henderson's first gigs were with this guy's band so I got hip to that stuff pretty early and I've always viewed him as a pretty important character. Really though, I'd say in ranking 60's post-bop tenor players he'd come right after Coltrane and Shorter in terms of importance.

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>Track one
This one was a little hit and miss. The piano solo had some excellent moments like when he made his way down the piano diatonically, then slinked his way up chromatically to his upper register and punctuated it with a thrill and a few high notes.
However, the drum solo was painful to listen to. I liked the trading at the beginning with the ensemble anchoring him but once he was off on his own, his playing got so detached from the piece. It actually felt weird when he referenced the theme because the rest of his solo felt like he was just wandering around the kit and practicing snare rolls.
The sax solo was fairly consistent. Pretty melodic and even when it wasn’t, like during those repetitive legato excursions, it was still entertaining if not musically brilliant. Showy but I enjoyed the show.
The bass solo was too low in the mix. I did notice his absences during the other solos though, he was making a big contribution to the overall sound and the togetherness of the ensemble.
>Track two
I wasn't expecting a clarinet over those very African sounding drums. Clarinet is one of the few instruments I associate more with white people in jazz. This guy sounds like a modern proponent of Benny Goodman’s style: virtuosic with bits of classical influences. I like how he’s cutting bits of the opening motif short and sort of tripping over himself with the repeats. I figure that must be an improvised thing? I recognise the melody they play after that but not the motif he was using in the opening few bars.
I really liked his soloing too. His ideas were well developed and felt like they had a very definite direction to them. Like he knew where he wanted them to go and roughly how he was gonna get there going into every phrase.
Vibes and clarinet quartet is an unusual set-up. It works pretty well. They’ve both got fairly limpid timbres and while I wasn’t crazy about the vibes solo, the sound of the vibes comping under the clarinet was interesting.

I bought a double bass today! I wish that was what had been keeping me away from /blindfold/ all day but I've barely been able to play on it yet. It's easily the coolest thing I own now though. I'm pretty crap but it feels SO much nicer than bass guitar.

>track three
One of the nice things about solo performances is that one can go in some pretty sudden directions without having to worry about losing or tripping over the rest of a group. This guy’s making pretty good use of that extra freedom here with accenting and use of silences that you’d need to work out with an ensemble and wouldn't feel as spontaneous as this does.
I like how he kind of switches the hand he’s playing melody with halfway through. The performance is pretty short but his soloing arcs really nicely as he moves from low to high and back to low for the repeat of the head. He’s got a pretty strong left hand game too…could be Mulgrew Miller or something?

>track four
The tune is Blue Bossa. I know Joe more as a sideman but even I know this one. It’s such a lovely melody and these guys take this in a cool direction with some melodically inventive improvising and the fluid rhythm that comes with being in a drumless small group.
That sounds like Jim Hall on the guitar. This sort of small group setting is his natural habitat and the voicings and rhythm of the chord comping are practically Hallmarks (I hate myself and I want to die). I really love this style of guitar playing, I aspire to this sort of style a lot whenever I play guitar, though obviously I’ve nowhere near this sort of skill.
That bass is pretty great too, he’s got some serious chops. He really lets loose in the sections where he’s got a bit more support from the group and when he’s soloing but he’s got the sense to know when to run around some arpeggios and provide a firm rhythm section like during the guitar solo.
Gonna post the rest tomorrow. Btw, did /classical/ do their blindfold today?

>I bought a double bass today!
Congrats. You've got a hard couple months ahead of you now. I thought it'd be pretty easy switching to upright after playing electric but the hardest thing is just building up the physical endurance to be able to play for more than 20 minutes at a time so that you can actually get some practicing done.

>I like how he kind of switches the hand he’s playing melody with halfway through. The performance is pretty short but his soloing arcs really nicely as he moves from low to high and back to low for the repeat of the head. He’s got a pretty strong left hand game too…could be Mulgrew Miller or something?
Yeah, I like that even though it's a solo piano piece there are basically two distinct solos, one from each hand. I think the last time I put this pianist on a playlist everybody commented about his left hand game too.

>The tune is Blue Bossa. I know Joe more as a sideman but even I know this one.
Probably the most recognizable tune this week, even though it was actually written by Kenny Dorham, not Henderson.

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a quality thread, you got a bump from me

>You've got a hard couple months ahead of you now. I thought it'd be pretty easy switching to upright after playing electric but the hardest thing is just building up the physical endurance to be able to play for more than 20 minutes at a time so that you can actually get some practicing done.
Even just fumbling around the thing I'm having such a great time though which is giving me a lot more confidence than say, my failed attempt at learning trumpet. At least with the bass, I'm actually able to play tunes to an extent with some pitching issues and difficulty getting around the thing.
>there are basically two distinct solos, one from each hand.
That's a nice way of thinking about it!
>it was actually written by Kenny Dorham
Do you know if it was written for Page One or was it on a Dorham lead session first? IIRC Kenny plays on that album doesn't he?
>track five
This reminds me of the sort of composing that’s on that Chris Potter Big Band album from 2-3 weeks ago, probably also ECM.
This is a cool way to open a piece. It’s so slow to build up and feels like they only got halfway towards a crescendo before the solo came in and they just stuck with the pace they were at. Loved the drumming here. Like the arrangement, he was achingly increasing the complexity of his playing throughout the intro and the solo and the knotty grooves he slowly eased into were class. Could be Eric Harland? I’m not very good at identifying drummers blind but there’s this sort of style Eric excels in that’s almost melodic (there’s probs a better word for this but I don’t know it) and makes excellent use of the whole kit.

The trombone is obviously the big star here though. He’s good enough to be Conrad Herwig or Joe Fiedler but I don’t know a lot of modern trombone virtuosos. He’s pretty cray though, like if Freddie Hubbard an octave lower and with a tone a few shades warmer. Great playing and I thought he delivered on the big climax the opening promised.

>track six
Some pretty intense playing here. Things start off slow but by the end of the vibes solo, the band is pretty pumped. The Latin feel is like a skeleton the band keeps reference to but they’re only just hanging onto it at times. The drummer in particular sounds like he’s tearing at the seams trying to go in several different directions, often at the same time. He’s following the other musicians but he’s not going for a lot of obvious rhythms for a time keeper, which I suppose he isn’t here. I’d love to hear him working within a free ensemble or something. I’d say he’d be incredible.
Besides that, the sax and piano obviously had a great rapport, both with themselves and the drummer and I enjoyed their solos the most. Lots of interplay and emotion. Curious to see who these players are, might consider picking this one up.

>track seven
The guitarist here is really good, surprisingly lyrical for the tempo. He was making good use of repetition rhythmically and had a good sense and ability to emphasise notes even at the speed he was playing. I was able to follow along pretty easily with the ideas he was developing as a result but I didn’t feel the same way about the organ solo.
Organ just isn’t a fantastic instrument. I feel like this guy was playing bop organ pretty well in the sense that this doesn’t feel like something he could have played on the piano to the same effect but I just don’t think the organ is great for this sort of soloing. I find it hard to connect with emotionally. It sounded pretty cool comping with the guitar but the solo was just a mess, there isn’t the same dynamic control a piano has so with this sort of choppy playing, melodies just kind of hit my ear and don’t go in. I can’t find much shape to it and when he does slow down, the more “digestible” melodic ideas he was playing just didn’t sit well with me. They were quite dissonant, which isn’t a turn off for me by itself but I just couldn’t latch onto anything.

>Track 1
Well this sounds very like a Joe Henderson tune. Don't think I know the original though. The mix here is exceedingly odd, sounds clipped somehow. Piano solo was okay but not memorable other than for the drums, which sounded really mechanical throughout it. Which coupled with the mix really brings to mind a drum machine. And I'm not convinced the timing of his snare accents are actually adhering to any logic. Oh right, and now his solo comes and he's just testing each drum one by one. That was shit. There was some wacky outside playing in the middle of that sax solo, I did enjoy that. Sounds a lot like Henderson actually in that he can hold a melodic line but then take it surprisingly outside when you might not expect it. He's taking it further out that Henderson normally would in a piece like this though.

No idea who this could be. Think it's from that odd period in the 70's-ish - maybe 80's - where post-bop lost its way. 2 stars.

>Track 2
Like the clarinet (?) and vibes interplay in the intro. The tune is ringing a bell but I suppose now is the time to mention I can't really identify any Henderson tunes by name. The only vibist I'm particularly familiar with is Bobby Hutcherson but this sounds like it could be him. I've not often heard clarinet played in this style, it's usually more old fashined or more avant-garde - this is somewhere in between. Really good though - for the era that I guess this was recorded (60s?) he has some chops, and it suits the latin style more than you'd expect. Nice percussion section too. 3.5 stars.

>Track 3
I definitely do know this one, but again no idea what it is. I like how this version of it develops, making it sound like a whole stand alone composition rather than a series of explorations around the melody. 4.5 stars.

>Track 4
Well I can do this - it's Blue Bossa by Kenny Dorham (the first track on Joe's first album), which I always get confused at first with Fly Me to the Moon. I think this would sound better and less loungy if he was playing marimba instead of vibes, though it's still okay. Guitarist is shredding it up but there's not a lot of melody in there. I actually like the bass solo best, especially before the vibes come in, as it's less cluttered and electric sounding. I do like how his solo sort of continues under the second vibes solo though. I'd give this 3 stars but it would've been lower if not for the bassist.

>Track 5
Don't recognise this piece. Nice how they built up the sound slowly for this one. This trombone player knows how to do a slow solo. Actually is this a tuba? Pianist decorates it really well too. Really like the drummer's fills he throws in right at the end of the solo too. That was great, 4 stars.

>Track 6
I think this is Recorda Me. The "dum dum da-dum" at the end of the melody gives it away. Otherwise it's been chopped up rhythmically. Sure are a lot of vibes this week. The tone on these vibes is sometimes hard to distinguish from the electric piano - normally I'd say that's a bad thing but in this case it gives a nice ambiguous feel to some of their interplay. Intro to that sax solo was another trademark Henderson-style repeated pattern, and I like how he picked it up from the pianist. Sweet ending, sounds like they're tearing the piece apart.

>Track 7
This piece reminds me of Bud Powell's Tempus Fugit. Guessing this is a Larry Young? Don't know who the guitarist would be though. The guitarist was mostly boring, and I don't tend to like this style, but I can see why it's good. 2.5 stars.

>Track 8
Another one that's well played but doesn't do much for me. Trumpet player is pretty good though. 3 stars.

>Track 9
This is one I definitely should know the name of, but I don't. Maybe Serenity from In N' Out? This sax player is good but the rest of the band are just dragging along behind him and it's not selling him at all. There was a point at about 3:40 where the bassist messed up the flow and he had to react - that as good and there should have been a lot more of it. There was another part like that at about 5:15 in the second solo that was good too. Second solo was better overall, the band felt like they'd warmed up a bit. Now the bass and drums are on their own it sounds best. This session reminds me a bit of some Archie Shepp recordings I've heard in overall sound, but it's obviously not him or his band playing. 3.5 stars.

>Track 10
Again I'm not feeling much. I think part of the problem is that a lot of the music here has been quite similar and in a particular post-bop vein. I guess maybe Henderson's tunes aren't quite as popular as Monk's or Ellington's or even Shorter's accross a range of musical styles? Which is a shame, because he writes some stunning melodies. Although I think Shorter is a better over all composer, I think Henderson has more of a gift for melody (or at least an inclination towards it). Anyway this tune had very little effect on me - I'd feel dishonest rating it at all.

Also looks like people have been discussing Henderson's place in the canon. Might be an unpopular opinion but as a soloist I much prefer Joe to Wayne Shorter, and I think at his best he's at least more versatile than Shorter or Trane.

I think partly it's because at the height of his abilities he still had a wide range of sideman dates (I don't know if Blue Note had house musicians, but if not he's as close as it comes to one), and thus -had- to be more versatile, but even so, as a hard bop soloist I think he's pretty much second only to Sonny Rollins.

I was listening to Song for My Father the other day and Henderson's solo on the title track is one of my overall favourites on the instrument.

Painting him purely as a Trane disciple misses an element of his playing too. Obviously he can play in that style, there's also the big stand out licks - and especially short repeated patterns - that make him sound more like Sonny Rollins at times.

>>It sounds like the trombonist from the Dave Holland quintet.
>Nice catch
Does that mean it's Julian Priester? I always do like his playing...

I was at a jazz festival a couple of weeks ago and I was trying to work out if anyone I saw there had ever been on a blindfold playlist. Julie Kjaer was one of the musicians playing with the headline act (mostly on bass clarinet) - I knew I recognised the name.

>Track eight
This is a catchy tune. I’d be interested to hear Joe playing it.
Oh? Opening with a bass solo? Controversial. It’s a good bass solo though, I liked that opening, some unusual note choices but he’s using a lot of repetition and speeding up his playing to launch himself into the more fluid bop soloing. I think getting a bass myself, I’m getting a better appreciation for people who can fly around the upper register of the instrument like this guy. That shit is hard.
The trumpet solo was a little…messy? It felt like he wasn’t really thinking about what he was doing some of the time. He’s clearly got some serious chops but I think he’d have been better off slowing down and considering his note choices, accenting and the flow of his ideas. Just a little bit of pruning cause he’s definitely got a lot of talent as a player and there were a couple of individual motifs he was playing that I really liked that I think he could have done more with.

>track nine
This tenor player is how I imagine Monk would sound if he played piano. This track is pretty weird, I don’t know if this is the tune or the interpretation but there’s so much unusual chromatic movement and I’m having trouble hearing where the progression is going, the bass certainly isn’t making it obvious a lot of the time.
The alto player is a little bit more grounded but still pretty off-kilter. There’s a bit more interplay through his solo, him and the drummer had a real nice thing going on. I thought the saxes were gonna duet when the tenor came back in…I’m not really sure what that was but it feels like he was gonna join in and then thought better of it?
I liked what the drummer was doing, he reminds me a little of Tony Williams. He’s contributing loads and putting in a bunch of weird ideas but they fit really well with the style of the piece and they’re never in the way of the band.

I'm heading out to play Dnd with the mates so I won't be able to finish reviewing track ten but I enjoyed it. The trombone player was killer.
Might be around later on looking at some of the discussion though.

>Do you know if it was written for Page One or was it on a Dorham lead session first? IIRC Kenny plays on that album doesn't he?
I don't know that he wrote it specifically for that session, but I'm pretty sure the tune first appeared on Page One.

>Could be Eric Harland?
It's not Harland but it's definitely in his style. Harland actually played with this group for years before the release of this record so I'm sure the drummer is influenced by him to some extent.

>The Latin feel is like a skeleton the band keeps reference to but they’re only just hanging onto it at times.
I like that description

>The trumpet solo was a little…messy?
It's definitely not this player's best solo. I think maybe he was going for a Joe Henderson style on trumpet, after all I'd call Henderson's playing messy at times but he plays with so much conviction that you never really mind the messy. Anyway I think the sax solo is the strongest here.

This one is actually two tenor players. I was pretty interested to see what people would make of it.

>1
>Sounds a lot like Henderson actually in that he can hold a melodic line but then take it surprisingly outside when you might not expect it. He's taking it further out that Henderson normally would in a piece like this though.
I think you know this sax player. He's definitely someone who comes to mind for this sort of 70's post-bop and I think this track shows he was influenced by Henderson at least a little bit.

>2
>Really good though - for the era that I guess this was recorded (60s?)
This one is actually a lot more recent

>3
>I like how this version of it develops, making it sound like a whole stand alone composition rather than a series of explorations around the melody.
me too!

>6
>Sweet ending, sounds like they're tearing the piece apart.
Yeah I love that ending. It's pretty chaotic but you can still pick out bits that come directly from the tune.

>Maybe Serenity from In N' Out?
It is from In n' Out but it's not Serenity

>I guess maybe Henderson's tunes aren't quite as popular as Monk's or Ellington's or even Shorter's accross a range of musical styles?
Yeah this one was definitely the most challenging of any of the composer playlists I'd put together yet. It's not hard to find Joe Henderson covers (though most people like to cover the same 4 tunes) but I had trouble finding a very wide range of styles.

I've also got a playlist that's just about ready to go that is the music of Andrew Hill and that one was pretty tough to put together as well. In the future I'd like to do playlists for the compositions of Coltrane, Ornette, Horace Silver, and probably another Ellington and Monk playlist too.

>Might be an unpopular opinion but as a soloist I much prefer Joe to Wayne Shorter
I also prefer Joe as a soloist, but for me the two are very close. I think Shorter's Blue Note record's as a leader are overall quite a bit better than Henderson's but Henderson's sideman work on Blue Note is way better than Shorter's. And I'd say he's more versatile than Shorter, but not necessarily Trane.

>I don't know if Blue Note had house musicians, but if not he's as close as it comes to one
I'm pretty sure I've seen that term used in Blue Note liner notes, but regardless of whether or not they used that term, they definitely had house musicians. It's one of the things I love about Blue Note is that they basically used a pretty limited number of players on each instrument and just mixed and matched to find interesting combinations. When you think about it, there really aren't too many Blue Note records that have exactly the same lineup (other than something like The Three Sounds).

What do you think of the comparison of Chris Potter to Joe Henderson? I've heard several critics making that comparison, and even though their tone is very different I definitely do hear similarities in their melodic concepts.

Not sure if that question was directed to me or more generally, but I'm probably one of the only regulars in this thread who's never really listened to Chris Potter. I will do some day.

Oh I thought we had talked some about Chris Potter before but I guess that was Bebob (who hasn't been in the threads for a while I think...?)

So is track 8 Chris Potter maybe?

No, but close.

I'll be starting the reveal info soon.

>This one is actually two tenor players. I was pretty interested to see what people would make of it.
The second guy's tone is much brighter than the first one so I kinda just assumed. I'm not that great at telling the two apart (which is why you'll see me referring to "sax players" rather than "alto-sax players" a lot of the time).

>look how fast I can play
This. Couldn't make head nor tail of half the stuff he was playing and I'm not sure there was much there to hear other than speed.

I agree with JTG and BT. There really isn't much of a trick other than paying close attention. Jazz pieces aren't usually constructed like nice little rounded tunes with regular repetition and straightforward melodies and the only way to really get around that is to give it a lot of attention and to try get on board with the emotion the soloist/ensemble is trying to express. ie: listen hard

>not caring about people not always liking bass solos
Man, everyone ragging on bass solos all the time really gets me down :'(
> avant-gardeish feel going in to the first sax solo - feels a bit like Dolphy's Out to Lunch with that bass just walking away it's own silly walk.
I was hearing that in the drums aswell but the bass is pretty in that style too. They're only missing an Eric going off on same crazy timbre experiments and Bobby demolishing his vibes set.

Oh wow. That is dodgy territory you're going into there Jazzpossu but I'm morbidly curious.

>expecting in terms of live gigs?
I've actually got a bunch of jazz gigs lined up in the near-mid future for the first time in my life. Charles Lloyd and Wayne Shorter coming in November and Cork jazz festival (basically the only Irish jazz festival) where I'm gonna go see Jason Marsalis again (because one can never have enough of the "Marsalis dynasty") and a bunch of other people who I haven't heard of.

Jelly of you going to see Iyer. I'd say he'll be interesting.

>Track 1
Cedar Walton- Mode for Joe
from Eastern Rebellion (Timeless, 1976)

Tenor sax- George Coleman
Piano- Cedar Walton
Bass- Sam Jones
Drums- Billy Higgins

This tune was actually written by pianist Cedar Walton, but first appeared on Joe Henderson’s final Blue Note release “Mode for Joe.” “Eastern Rebellion” is one of Walton’s best-known recordings as a leader and has the definitive version of one of Walton’s best original tunes, “Bolivia” as well as this version of “Mode for Joe.”

>Track 2
Ralph Peterson- Shade of Jade
from The Fo’tet Augmented (Criss Cross, 2004)

Clarinet- Don Byron
Vibraphone- Bryan Carrott
Bass- Belden Bullock
Drums- Ralph Peterson
Percussion- Eguie Castillo

Somebody mentioned a connection to Art Blakey’s percussion heavy music which I thought was interesting because Ralph Peterson was mentored by Blakey and got his start filling in for him with the Jazz Messengers in the 80’s. This group has recorded several other albums and is interesting for their obviously unique instrumentation, but they also do very interesting and creative arrangements. “Shade of Jade” also originally appeared on “Mode for Joe” and the arrangement is in the style of Puerto Rican folk music called “plena.”

>Track 3
George Colligan- Inner Urge
from Return to Copenhagen (SteepleChase, 1999)

Piano- George Colligan

I wanted to include a track by pianist George Colligan because his original music always sounds very inspired by Joe Henderson’s melodies to me, but this solo rendition of Inner Urge was the only cover of Henderson that I could find him playing. The arrangement is obviously extremely virtuosic, but also very tasteful. As several people have pointed out, this track highlights the strength of Colligan’s left hand and he uses that to his advantage in the arrangement with his two hands basically acting as two different soloists.

>Track 4
Milt Jackson, Joe Pass, and Ray Brown- Blue Bossa
from The Big 3 (Pablo, 1975)

Vibraphone- Milt Jackson
Guitar- Joe Pass
Bass- Ray Brown

The Pablo label released a number of these recordings in the 70’s which were basically legendary jam sessions. Jackson, Pass, and Brown had all recorded together numerous times, but this is the only time they ever recorded in this trio format. “Blue Bossa” is one of the more recognizable tunes on this playlist and has become a jam session standard. It was written by Kenny Dorham, but everybody associates the tune with Joe Henderson’s first Blue Note release “Page One.”

>Track 5
SFJAZZ Collective- Black Narcissus
from The Music of Joe Henderson and Original Compositions (SFJAZZ, 2015)

Arrangement- Robin Eubanks
Trumpet- Avishai Cohen
Alto Sax- Miguel Zenon
Tenor Sax- David Sanchez
Trombone- Robin Eubanks
Vibraphone- Warren Wolf
Piano- Edward Simon
Bass- Matt Penman
Drums- Obed Calvaire

SFJAZZ was founded in the 1980’s as a cultural institution devoted to jazz, and they are now one of the top destinations for live jazz on the West coast. Their “collective” is a rotating house band and this 2015 release captured a live tribute to Joe Henderson, who spent his later years in San Francisco and often worked with the SFJAZZ association. “Black Narcissus” first appeared on Joe Henderson’s “Power to the People” record, and this arrangement features trombonist Robin Eubanks in an excellent solo that’s very characteristic of his style (as Blindfoldtest recognized.)

>Track 6
Mark Shim- Recorda Me
from Turbulent Flow (Blue Note, 2000)

Tenor Sax- Mark Shim
Vibes- Stefan Harris
Piano- Edward Simon
Bass- Drew Gress
Drums- Eric Harland

I wanted to include something by Mark Shim, because many people have compared him to Joe Henderson. I think it’s a justified comparison since his tone is especially reminiscent of Henderson’s. “Records Me” also comes from “Page One” and is probably another one of Henderson’s most recognizable tunes. As Clueless noticed, the rhythm of the tune has been altered, with a few extra beats placed in there to complicate the tune. This record was released on Blue Note and I think it probably comes the closest to Henderson’s original Blue Note recordings, especially those with Bobby Hutcherson.

>Track 7
Jared Gold- Granted
from Metropolitan Rhythm (Posi-Tone, 2015)

Organ- Jared Gold
Guitar- David Stryker
Drums- Kush Abadey

The solos here aren’t particularly great or tasteful, but I picked this one because it’s a rather interesting take of a somewhat obscure Henderson composition. “Granted” comes from “Mode for Joe” and this version takes a more beboppy approach to solos than the original tune does.

>Track 8
Alex Sipiagin- Tetragon
from Mirages (Criss Cross, 2009)

Trumpet- Alex Sipiagin
Tenor Sax- Seamus Blake
Piano- Mulgrew Miller
Bass- Boris Kozlov
Drums- Johnathan Blake

“Tetragon” is another classic from Henderson’s Milestone years. This version stays pretty close to the original, and I think it works well on this album which mostly sounds very inspired by 70’s post-bop ala Woody Shaw and Joe Henderson. Sipiagin’s solo might not be his best, but I love the way Seamus Blake’s solo develops from pretty simple melodic ideas to a more Henderson-esque climax.

>Track 9
Ari Ambrose and Stephen Riley- Punjab
from Tenor Treats (SteepleChase, 2009)

Tenor Sax- Ari Ambrose
Tenor Sax- Stephen Riley
Bass- Jay Anderson
Drums- Matt Wilson

Tenor saxophonists Ari Ambrose and Stephen Riley put out two volumes of releases from this group, which feature the interesting contrast between the two players set against the backdrop of the swinging bass/drums rhythm section. “Punjab” comes from Henderson’s “In ’n’ Out” and I think it works well for both Ari Ambrose’s very modern sound and style, and Stephen Riley’s more traditional breathy sound.

Fun fact- Ari Ambrose’s day job is working as an immigration lawyer and he also manages to have a pretty successful career as a saxophonist. I’m thinking he must be one of those people who doesn’t sleep.

>Track 10
Jim Snidero- If
from The Music of Joe Henderson (Double-Time, 1999)

Trumpet- Joe Magnarelli
Alto Sax- Jim Snidero
Trombone- Conrad Herwig
Piano- David Hazeltine
Bass- Dennis Irwin
Drums- Peter Washington

On these playlists I usually try to avoid tracks from tribute albums, but sometimes its unavoidable. I thought this would be one of the more obscure Henderson compositions, and I was surprised that Jazzpossu recognized it. This version is another one that takes a more beboppy approach to the soloing, and I think the real highlight here is Herwig’s unbelievable solo.

Alright well that's all for this week. Sorry some of these were more obscure and a lot of them were kind of in a similar post-bop vein. I tried to include some other stuff for diversity too.

This is the second one of your playlists where one of my favourite tracks has turned out to be George Colligan. I really need to get listening to his stuff.

Surprised I didn't recognise these, I've heard both a few times.
I'm also kind of surprised at how I reacted to the Sipiagin track. I stand by what I said but normally I think he's a lot more focused than he was on this one.
>That album cover
They couldn't have just gone out to somewhere scenic in their locality? Looks like the sort of thing I'd see in my Facebook feed.

>I've also got a playlist that's just about ready to go that is the music of Andrew Hill

I'm looking forward to that one. I don't know if I've ever heard any Andrew Hill covers.

I'm surprised I actually recognized a couple players this week. Both were trombone players too which is kind of unusual for me.

>That album cover
The Colligan one is pretty bad too though - all it needs to complete the look is to have Rainbow Dash photoshopped onto it

He's definitely an underrated player. I'm glad I've been able to bring him to some people's attention.

>I'm also kind of surprised at how I reacted to the Sipiagin track. I stand by what I said but normally I think he's a lot more focused than he was on this one.
I always like it when I do a blind listen of something and find I'm much more critical of it than when I listened to it, while knowing the artist and what to expect.

Yeah I think the Colligan cover is worse. Maybe I should make a Terrible Album Covers playlist sometime... I guess probably most of them would be SteepleChase. I guess on some level though I like the fact that SteepleChase's covers are basically as low budget as possible. It's really just all about the music.

One of my favorite bad SteepleChase covers is this one. I don't think they could have made Mike Richmond look any creepier if they wanted to. It's a pretty good record though. Richie Bierach is great.

>I'm looking forward to that one. I don't know if I've ever heard any Andrew Hill covers.
That one's pretty much ready to go, I think I've got too many tracks now and I have to edit it down to 10. Maybe we can do that one in a few weeks or so.

Also I just realized that this turned out to be a very American playlist. I didn't even really think about that while putting it together but it just kind of happened that way. Anybody have any European style Joe Henderson covers?

Oh Gosh, I hadn't even looked at the Colligan one too closely. I don't get how the artists could approve these. I get the ethos that the music is the most important aspect but it's not that hard to just get an ok photo. These are so unflattering, it's like they were trying to make them look awkward.
It's a bit of a weird feeling though, seeing your biases removed like that. I don't think I'd have been as critical if I knew that was Sipiagin cause he's a player I'm very fond of.

I gave this track another listen since everyone's raving about Herwig's solo - it's a lot more enjoyable this time round. I really need to stop cramming all my blindfold listening into a short space of time

>It's a bit of a weird feeling though, seeing your biases removed like that. I don't think I'd have been as critical if I knew that was Sipiagin cause he's a player I'm very fond of.
Definitely but I think its good. It's made me go into listening from a much more objective standpoint I think even when I know the artist.

Yeah, I listen to quite a bit of jazz but I don't usually like to listen for more than an hour without some kind of break. The ear just gets tired I think.

Not really in a European style, as it's from the era when British jazz was all about copying the Yanks, but this Ronnie Scott live album has two Henderson covers.

youtube.com/watch?v=7sj7l9jJwGE

This poorly spelled version of Mamacita is pretty nice, but the best bits of the album are when they let John Surman go for it.

www71.zippyshare.com/v/XNBQSght/file.html

Link for next week. Theme is "Playing with Myself" by Jazzpossu

Couple of weeks ago I was at the record release gig of some local 15 year old youngsters who play Henderson's Mamacita FWIW

open.spotify.com/track/1ekF7PFtKcNIDYovHVeSfR

bump