Let's talk about faith. No conversions here, let's talk about our personal ideology and why we feel the way we do

Let's talk about faith. No conversions here, let's talk about our personal ideology and why we feel the way we do.

I am agnostic. My belief structure is based on uncertainty. If there is a 'God', which for the purposes of this discussion i define as an omnipotent, all powerful being, it is literally impossible to comprehend its nature much less its 'thoughts'. We can't even structure our minds to begin to understand omnipotence. The idea that this being is a being in the way people usually define being to me is infinetly simplistic and inherently flawed.

To summarize, i believe that any thoughts we have about god are inapplicable and incorrect because the nature of our consciousness. Therefore i dont subscribe to a religion.

When i die i want my consciousness to become music.

I was an atheist when i was younger. It was through a lot of soul searching, learning about theoretical physics and frankly some very spiritual experience on some powerful hallucinogenics that changed my mind.

I cant be certain my ideas about religion are correct. I dont think anyone can really be certain in this. I try and live a moral life by my beliefs, just like traditional religious people. I want to live in a world where people help each other, where people are good. Therefore i help people and try to be a moral person.

I dont judge or feel superior to religious people. I respect faith and understand the need to characterize the unknown. My mind doesn't work that way.

Id really like to hear about your faiths and will talk to any non trolls.

Pic unrelated.

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Shameless self bump. This is a conversation people need to have with one another.

Skepticism isn't cool anymore. It's a dead meme because dumb cunts ride the dick of the ol classics and spoil it for everyone. just make a new religion or something that can express your deep disatisfaction in joke form

Agnosticism and Atheism are not mutually exclusive. One addresses knowledge, the other belief.

>>Let's talk about faith.
Remember also that faith, (an unreasonable assertion of complete conviction which is not based on reason and is defended against all reason) —is the most dishonest position it is possible to have. Any belief which requires faith should be rejected for that reason. - AronRa

I just let those who believe in God do their thing and if there's a God, I'll just think "they were right all along, fuck me sideways"

/thread

Pass me a fedora.

I believe we are all electricity. Our thoughts are electricity, matter is eld together with electricity, and likely if there was a god it would be electricity.

I believe the amount of information our brains can write on a single electron is much greater than what we can do with computers. I think the soul must be electricity, and I believe ghosts are emf fields a brain produced with enough fortitude for the consciousness to remain intact. I think if you became a ghost you probably would be all data no emotion, as emotions are largely chemical. That scares me a little.

My philosphy is that everything is one. You and I are experiencing one area of ourself, that is to say, the universe.

Thoughts?

Even if there is a god, what right did it have to create me? I didn't ask to be created. Why should I burn in Hell for e-t-e-r-n-i-t-y for 70-ish years worth of petty trespasses?

A god that creates sentient beings without their consent, then throws out ultimatums and makes threats is a sociopath and an unjust creator.

would you like a vape with that?

Well I gotta call bullshit on that last sentence. I just got married and my pregnant wife is a smoker. Now, I've paid for laser therapy and I've been supportive getting her to quit. She has not done so. I have faith she will quit, I believe she will quit, but she more likely will not. Should I reject that faith?

Loose association, the post.

I quit smoking years ago... but since the shoe fits, I'll take cherry flavored please.

>im an agnostic
amazing, u solved nothing
answer me this: do u believe in god?

I dont really care about being cool or hip. And im not deeply dissatisfied. What gave the impression that i was?

What do you believe user? Im really curious.

Why would i start a religion? Id rather just have conversations.

True enough. Mine is seperate though as i see that i am probably totally wrong

I think that faith doesnt have to be illogical. The belief that there is a god, that there is a universal plan, that our souls are judged after we die doesn't stifle reason. Some of the most religious people ive ever met are brilliant theoretical physicists. Lots of people need to put a concrete label on these very outlandish and overwhelming ideas.

Of course there are lots of people who do fit your description and use religion as a crutch so they dont have to think. But to me faith and logic dont have to be mutually exclusive.

Are you agnostic? Id like to hear about your beliefs if you are comfortable sharing

I agree with a lot of what youre saying. Buy how the hell would you become music? Like youre just listening to music for eternity or you are a song until it ends? I just spookied myself picturing listening to music worried that the next crescendo is my last

I believe that we should act thoughtfully for now.

plant a tree guys.
seriously.
Or we will never become angels to uphold our idea of heaven and fail the idea of god.
having never overcame ourselves or reached to potential past contemporary urge.

seriously the way things are headed if we dont snuff ourselves out we will garden our own past present and future, have you guys even seen what the cutting edge of technology looks like, and on the other side the corupted balance of nature?

plant a tree for your children, so that they can breath the clean air and look forward.

Explain?

I'm not one of those atheists, believe it or not. I looked for god for a long time, through all the "evidence", all the terrible arguments believers of many faiths give, all the superstitious nonsense, and can find no sound reason to justify belief in a deity.

And, every time we as a species discover something new about life, the universe and everything, the answer invariably turns out to be not GODDIDIT.

Further, the rampant dishonesty of those who preach the "word of God", from lying about science to lying about what their own damn holy books say is evidence enough for me that these are not people who are speaking on behalf of an omnipotent, omnibenevolent god.

I feel something similar user. All the world is made up of vibrating particles. I like your idea of ghosts. Why do you think there would be no emotion attached? I would argue that thoughts are also chemical.

a rock has less motivation and angst. but does not earn a brain to think with out of blood and struggle, biological mediums require suffering to maintain dynamic.

Define god. Thats not a copout. It is necessary in order to answer your question.

Somebody told me what this was once, but I can't remember the name.

I believe that the entirety of humanity, all working in unison towards a singular goal is God.

God has three basic traits: Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence.

As a collective, if we were to seek out knowledge in any given field, we could gain it. As a collective, if we were to set out to complete a goal, we would accomplish it. As a collective, if we were to try and get to any location, we could do it.

However, we are divided, thus we will never achieve these three traits. Thus, there is no God, just the potential for one.

You're conflating faith in the context of religious beliefs with confidence based on reasonable expectations and with supporting evidence.

Great trips. I was just thinking how funny it would be if God really was talking to the Pope 24/7 and at some point they all decided to molest little boys instea of sticing to the plan

"whatever u think a god is, when u say u r an agnostic and dont know if god exists"

I 'believe' that everything is vibrations. Our consciousness is the result of vibrating particles in our brain. I dont know what happens when we die but i really like the idea that my consciousness could become music. Its obviously a very loose idea.

but in a quantum way if there were ever potential, then there is possibility. you think maybe we could make a effort to create a amalgam of will in this dimension? but then that would be a god of men, maybe not the architecture of the universe?

Try writing data to electrons for starters. You understand that neurochemicals are way bigger than a single atom, right? And that a single atom is way bigger than an electron? So how can our brain write data to an electron, if the only means of writing said data is two orders of magnitude larger?

Too hard? Let's try something simpler. How do you store more than a single bit of data with a single electron?

Sorry, only have dick flavoured left

quarky thought bruh.

Thanks, you just saved me some typing

Thats very interesting. I actually really like this definition. It encompasses so much about humanity. Thanks for sharing!

Do you think we will acheive a godly state as we are? How does humab evolution factor into yiur thought?

Well, who's to say that we, as a collective couldn't be the architects of our own universe? Now, the argument here is obviously that we can't have created ourselves, but that idea centers upon looking towards the past in lieu of the future. In a present/future facing concept, we do hold all of the potential and possibility for Godhood.

So now instead of our brains working with electrons and storing data on them, you're asserting than our brain can manipulate the quantum particles that makes up electrons

0/10 no understanding of biology or how brains work

I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't claim to know, but I lack belief.

As far as the Abrahamic faiths, which I am the most familiar with, I am convinced they are just man made nonsense. Same goes for other religions like Sikh and Hindu, although I confess I am much less familiar with them.

I accept the big bang as the starting point for our universe, and evolution as an explanation for the diversity of life on this planet. That pretty much rules out every major religion as they each have their various creation myths that are not concordant with our understanding of reality.

I'm also a bit of an antichrist. The harm of religion is an undeniable fact, and of its benefits, not one couldn't also be accomplished by secular means.

Also don't believe in souls, spirits, ghosts any of that. When we die, we stop. Same as before we were born. Our bodies rot, and eventually the atoms we're made of go on to be part of another life. That to me is both sad, but infinitely more beautiful than anything religion offers.

particle joke ignored....

>Should I reject that faith?
Only if your wife's name is Faith

In that case yes i can find a definition for 'god' i can be ok with. It just doesnt fit into any structured religion.

For the sake of clarity i tell people i dont believe in god. I also dont put labels on things that dont need a label.

Human evolution could hold the next step to bring us to Godhood. Similar to that of a hive mind, if there was a way to withhold our individualism, yet function on a higher plane of collective purpose, then it would be obtainable. However, I don't believe that it will be evolution that gets us there. Instead, it will likely be a cataclysmic unifier of some sort.

OK. First of all there is no such thing as "faith". "Faith" is just a key-word for trust. If you have "faith" in someone You trust him.

There is only i know or i dont know. To determine what i know i use Trivium Method. triviumeducation.com if anyone interested.

Knowledge comes from gnosis (latin term) and it means "something that comes from experience". Also i am aware i cannot know everything so i have to trust someone else. But to earn trust it takes time. So i veryfie my own thoughts and others and if one is OK then he earns my trust.

My search for knowledge lead me through variety of topics. Conclusion - everything that exists has its own Source. This energy is just that - so called "god" but no word is right to describe it.

I also had (and still have) contact with psychedelics (LSD is my favourited; didnt try DMT yet but i will eventually). And experience that comes from this is also very knowledgefull. It leared me that there are two particles in Universe that are combined and are creating everything that Is. They are called different ways - Light and Darkness, Male and Female, Active and Passive. Also are named in may so called "myths" - like Svarog and Nya.

So... Conclusion - there is something more than matter. We are much more spiritual than most of us like to think.

...

* antichrist should have been antitheist, thanks autocorrect. Typing this shit on a tablet is a pain.

so u r an agnostic atheist.
actions r based on beliefs. U never now.

>I have faith she will quit, I believe she will quit, but she more likely will not.

How can you say she won't if you believe she will? Do you really believe or do you just want to believe?

In a way though, that is evolution. Massive events, are often thought of as the catalyst for evolution.

I'm Catholic. if I'm good and loving I will go to heaven (but im on /b so thats not an option any more)

Autocorrect made what you posted a little funny but I do like your viewpoint.

Sneak abortifacients into her food. try for a kid once she quits smoking. No kid deserves to be created with a fetal drug syndrome.

So all your cells have receptors. When you experience an emotion, your cells transmit the molecule dictating the specific emotion and the receptors send the corresponding electrical signal. If you are a consciousness existing as an EMF you would not have the cells to incite the emotion.

Thoughts are electrical impulses firing synapses in just the right order to somehow produce information. So you're reading this; your retinas are converting light into electrical information and your brain is converting into thought and responses. Are you producing electricity or is electricity producing you?

i feel like existence alone is enough for me to believe there is a God
Why do we exist? why do we exist now instead having existed before or after? What is even the purpose of existence, existing? Why were we given the ability to know we exist and acknowledge the existence of others? Outside of our planet, the universe is just so vast, there are endless possibilities

And if we claim to have come from "nothing" where did "nothing" come from?
Everything has a beginning, and an end, but only in our world whereas space is infinite

We are a part of something greater than ourselves. If you claim there is no God, well so be it, but the argument of those who claim such is that we were created by an anomaly in space, so we are a part of space, and being that space is infinite, there is a part of ourselves that is infinite as well.

lot of rambling, but that's what i think i guess

...

And your evidence for this, aside from "I did some drugs and tripped balls" is…?

Hitchens' razor my man.

Early life: Catholic
Later: atheist
Later still: agnostic
Now: "deist", for lack of a better word.

Deists don't believe in dogma but believe that God (not necessarily the Christian one) is self-evident in the universe.

Or as I like to put it, shit's too weird to be natural. I have too many weird coincidences in my life to think this is just all physics at work.

I also think "consciousness" or "sentience" is something science is going to continue to fail to explain for a long time.

I also think that in a universe of pure science and physics, everything we are is completely unnecessary. Why should life even exist? What is life? Why should a bunch of atoms come together in such a way as to create life?

I think to remain purely atheist you have to be very unimaginative, very uninterested in what's going on around you and very unobservant.

someone engage in discussion with me please
this is peak vyvanse hours

I think my point is faith in any form is necessary for human survival. Faith is not the issue, it's the laws we ascribe to some faiths.

>catholic
my nigga

Thank you for sharing. I totally understand your opinion about the negative effects of organized religion. Its been used in undeniably evil ways over history.

Have you ever met anyone of faith who's beliefs you respect?

Not the poster you're responding to but what if the human brain can ascribe data to an electron vastly more.efficiently than anything we've understood thus far

We are all so called "gods childresn" but only few feel as one. When dog has puppies what they will grow into? Dogs. When cow get calf into what it will grom? Cow. So as Gods Children in what we grow?

Logic.

Human Consciousness works in simple rules that cannot be broken. You can discover then, know then and align Your actions with them. If You wont You will have only suffering and pain in Your life.

Holy Trinity that is present in all religions is symbol for those rules. God Father is Mind, Holy Spirit/Goddess aspect are Feelings and Emotio0ns and from both of them Son is Born - Actions. As You Thing so You Feel and Act according to this. As You Feel so You Thing and Act according to this. That is Unified Consciousness. And Univers will grant everything to Unified Consciousness. If it is divided - ans "Satan" is symbol for this - only thing You will get is chaos and suffering.

"Satan" comes from hebre "shatan" which means "adversary". It is not adversary of the God it is adversary of the man. Because it represents internal divide.

>Any belief which requires faith should be rejected
Even Science requires faith

It is more complex and my english is not good enought to explain all in simple way. You need to get involved by Yourself.

First, i totally saved that pic.

Second thank you for sharing your thoughts. I vibe with a lot of what you are saying.

Have you seen any other definitions of faith that you respect? Or any positive applications of faith as you define it?

Sorry bud ghosts are real, I have literally used a oujia board by myself and it made an accurate prediction I could not have

>i was a believer, then non-believer, then a cop-out and then a believer again
amazing. What makes u think god exists? Cuz u had a bunch of luck? Amazing... Whats statistic? Why dont every1 have just a bunch of luck? If u r deist and think god is not influencing the universe after creation, why did u have the luck u had? Was it magic? R u stupid?

Is that what i am? Ive never been much for labels but if thats a quick way of describing my beliefs i appreciate the knowlege.

What do you believe?

I disagree. Faith, in the context I am using it, and which religious people are using it in, is believing something without evidence. This is a foolish position to hold, as it opens you to believing all manner of nonsense, ya gotta have faith!

I don't have faith in anything. I have degrees of confidence. The example of the pregnant smoker wife is a bait and switch of the meanings of faith.

I'm referring to 2, not 1.

what if i can shit a fully grown elephant better than we can currently understand

But user there are 3 particles. There is positive negative and neutral. There is the male the female and the new. Active passive and supportive

>logic

Bait of the highest variety

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

I moved a plank on a board therefore ghosts. Those things have been debunked, but if you really believe it worked, you should get a hold of the JREF and get that tested and claim the $1000000 prize.

i'd also like to add the concept of energy. Now my understanding of energy is very rudimentary, but bear with me here, and do correct me if I'm wrong or sound like a fucking retard

Energy, i'm pretty sure, cannot be created or destroyed. Being so then, when we are born, we have the energy we will have when we are young and strong, and old and decrepit. So when we die where does this energy go? What even is this "energy"?

Short little comment, but, like I said, we're a part of something much greater. People just can't accept the fact that we're in fact special; society has just convinced us we aren't. The legacy we leave on earth is nothing

Shit!! Alright. I guess it's cock flavored cape for me. Sad face.

butthurt?

u did label yourself as agnostic, so why stop there? Why go this far to begin with.

Depends what u ask about. I dont believe in gods, for starter.

Well if I don't believe I shelled out 235 dollars for laser therapy and lies. If I do believe I don't have to yell and fight and shit. So yes I want to believe, but I also need to believe and catch more flies with honey. It's like the secret, if you put it into the universe and will it, it shall be.

I like your perspective. Youve honestly given me a lot to think about.

My initial thoughts are that our thoughts and emotions are inherently linked, both influencing and influenced by each other, created by and creating each other.

Im still processing what you said. Very thoughtful user.

Bait or scientifically illiterate? There's no third option here.

Nice dubs.

Well... There is placebo effect. That is documented and clearly shows that our attitude and and thoughts have influence on our self. Mind over matter in simple words. But we dont understand why. Actually we start to understand - epigenetics teaches us that there are factor that shape DNA. Its our Consciousness. But science doesnt know what consciousness is. Also what graity is, what matter is and what fields are and what energy is. We learned to watch those things in some cases we learned how use changing shapes - for example heat energy into electricity. But we dont know what energy is and where comes from.

But to put simple way i use this kind of explanations. There is faith and there are religions. Faith is that deep inside feeling that every human beiong has that "there is much more than this" and religions are structures designed to feed on that feeling. Parasite.

Spiritual humans are in every religion, because there is no such thing as one right religion, but spiritual humans dont need any and see Truth in every. I mean trully spiritual humans, not posers.

Hahaha nah man I was born and raised in a smoke cloud the kids gonna be fine. It's not like she's smoking 2.packs a day she's down to 5 a day and smoking while prganant is not really as dangerous as anti smoking faggots would have you believe

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
― Werner Heisenberg

I personally believe in God since it takes just as much faith to believe in God as it does to believe that things just came about at random.

Have you ever tried putting a remote in a plastic bag with the batteries and tried shaking the batteries into the remote? Doesn't seem to work.

God is just as plausible and honestly I choose to believe in God because overall it seems less depressing. If a scientific theory was proved I would believe that, but until then I will believe in God.

You can put in this way but neutral comes from fusion of both.

triviumeducation.com

faith in god is for the weak, i believe in myself.
i am god, you're god, we all are god.

I'm not either. I was saying inb4 reddit fags using different words.

Basically what it comes down to is I don't see religion as being any different than any other mythology. The ones around today just have followers...

That's the nutshell version. Hard to really get into complex issues on 4 chan.

True to that. There are many cases of true scientist that comes from atheist to finding this whatever You wanna call it "God".

so you believe in god then

I totallly get and respect where you are coming from. Everyone answers these fundamental questions differently and i dont presume any one train of thoughts correctness. Faith can be a real answer and doesnt automatically preclude logic.

Thanks for your perspective user.

nothing? anyone?

if u r trying to legitimize your faith in god by saying "ppl say they believe in things all the time, so its the same" - its not. They most often mean they believe sth based on a history of interactions with given object. If they have faith in me, that ill pull through, they mean "theyve seen me pull through often, so that makes them believe in my ability to do so when needed", not "this person over there - he has a duck, that lays golden eggs, i can feel it"

...

Yes and no. Religious beliefs, no. Other beliefs like all humans are, generally speaking, equal, of course.

People deserve respect. Beliefs don't.

But I really do enjoy talking to, and yeah arguing with, believers. I try to convince them how and why they're wrong, and try to get them to admit there's no good reason to believe what they do, but more than that I try to get them to think. I'd rather they reach unbelief on their own, rather than by being convinced by me or anyone else.

Reality is much grander than anything their holy books claim.

TL; DR
But preach on anyway!

>very spiritual experience on some powerful hallucinogenics that changed my mind.

found the gullible teen

You need to revise the definition of energy in a scentific context and stick to that definition. That's the definition everyone in the scientific community uses when talking about energy. Except for deepak

Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld

Similar to believing the sun will come up tomorrow.

i pretty make share your views op

Post in your native tounge and we will google translate. You seem well thought out and id really like to hear your thoughts.

So, no evidence then. Unsurprising.

Sorry but even with my tenuous grasp of biology and neuroscience, I understand how drugs can alter the brain.

I wont ;)

That has no sense at all.

Really just start with this:

triviumeducation.com
whatonearthishappening.com

Take mp3 put them on portable player and start listening during walks, travel, etc. Listen every file two or three times, be relaxed. And see for Yourself.

There is nothing new under the sun.

ah but why not tune that kinetic to use? why not interest the faithful into positive action? you have ideologically 'won' a game you made. but have brought nothing good to the world.

Nonsense claim is nonsense. Statistics do not bear this out when >90% (or 95 dont remember) of scientists are non believers.

yes
i believe that everything combined is god. you could say the universe itself is god.
i believe in god but religion is bullshit.

>>some very spiritual experience on some powerful hallucinogenics that changed my mind.

didnt even read everything in this thread from there

mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed, true. But energy is constantly entering and leaving your body. There's no sense in which you contain the "same" energy from birth to death. Moments after your death, your body still contains as much energy as it did before you died, mainly stored in chemical bonds. That energy dissipates as heat as you decompose. It doesn't leave all at once with a pattern that is you written onto it.

Very true. I said i was agnostic as it briefly and crudely describes my beliefs. I really do habe difficulty with labels but try to use them as it helps me express myself to other people.

Do you have any beliefs on the nature of reality? Are there philosophies that you subscribe to?

No, no it's really not. Fuck you for being arrogant enough to think it is. People's beliefs are none of your business, and your beliefs are none of mine, nor am I interested in them beyond the anger I feel at seeing this shit. You're just another pretentious fedorable faggot, and you're 10 times worse than any atheist. At least atheists have the guts to say they believe something. All you do is say you believe nothing and act like that makes you superior somehow. You know what would actually make you superior? NOT SAYING ANYTHING. Unfortunately for you, nobody would know in that case whether you were actually refraining from saying anything, or just too stupid to have anything to say, and that wouldn't suit your pathetic ego at all.

Synonyms of confidence include having faith. Also if you carefully read your pic you'll notice those 2 definitions are literally the same essential meaning and your argument is semantics. Faith in your own survival is imperative to your survival.

Have You tried? Have You experienced it?

Because when i find out how LSD works on brain i knew i HAVE to experience it. Also chemical structure, similarieties to natural neurotransmitters and rest of this topic shows that there are much more to discover. They are not "just drugs". Read My Trouble child and Hofmans Elixir. Also research data about LSD - till 70 there were many of them. Currently in UK there is project in Royal UNiversity to gather resources for LSD research. The same group tested psylocibin and results are... very interesting.

Your knowledge is too shallow.

Definition changing to support an altered position spotted

thank you
That makes much more sense to me

I don't have "faith" the sun will come up. I have a reasonable expectation it will, based on the fact that it has done so every single day of my life, and my parents, and my grandparents, and as back as far as recorded history goes. That's not faith, that's based on evidence.

Nice try though. Hebrews, iirc. Don't remember the chapter verse.

i agree, we should be careful with nature and this planet. we only have this one. nature is more important then humans.
without humans nature will be fine.
without nature humans are fucked.

...

Your credulity is too deep.

But if You like really.... then this:

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;)

the sun will die one day and on the same day earth too

even so, it doesn't matter what personal beliefs they hold, it's about what they can prove or support with evidence

No, they aren't. Note that #2 specified without proof.
That is the key part of that definition, and so I will repeat myself.

Believing something without evidence is foolish.

Well absolute omnipotence is completely boring.
Unless-unless-unless the only thing god doesn't know about is the human mind which would make would make for an interesting spectacle for him wouldn't it?
But that seems fairly far fetched, just like "god"

by then the sand monkeys will have raped all our women
and we would probably have all nuked each other and begun to live in caves again

Yes and Hebrews says that faith is "the assured expectation". Faith doesnt mean that you HAVE to not have any evidence. Its like putting faith in your spouse not cheating on you. You have the past to back you up but not 100% evidence that she wont.

i believe ppl r essentially evil, not good. Ppl define "good" as pro-group, altruistic, herdal. They mean being good is having other ppls well-being in mind. What i say, is that every1 has their own well-being in mind as priority 1 regardless. Being a social species means only, that gathering in herds gives better chances of survival. Individual survival. Thats countrary to being good and every1 is afraid of admitting how evil u r. Even doing "good things, cuz it feels good" is egoistic, cuz u did it, cuz it feels good to U. U did it for your own pleasure.
I say the world wouldve been a better place, if every1 wouldve been a little more egoistic.
And about nature - everything is explainable by natural means. Maybe not necessarily right now, but even if we wont explain it, its no reason to call it "magic" and be satisfied with that.

Are you retarded

...

what this guy said you have to be fucking retarded

You are very well thought out.

I see where you are coming from when you describe organized religion the way you do. Theres a lot of history to back you up. I dont think you capture organized religion in its entirety though. There are many good, decent and intelligent people in religion that need to put concrete ideas in place in order to provide their thoughts with a context. We form institutions around common beliefs so that we may share our faiths with others, develop our faiths and try to understand the universe through that particular lense. I agree that this structure is easilly bent towards manipulating people but i dont believe it is inherent

I really like your definition of faith.

maybe we will have populated the stars by then.

I pretty much share the same beliefs as you.

who gives a shit .

...

You are the only sane one here, let me guess, over 20y?

>>If a scientific theory was proved I would believe that, but until then I will believe in God.

If you can say that, you don't understand science, and so it's no wonder you believe in God.

Your remote analogy is terrible, btw. Still, at least you didn't go with the tornado in a junkyard. Doesn't change that it's a bad analogy, however.

Tough post to read user. Really tough. I really want to criticize your use of abbreviation but whatever. Faith means you believe something without specific evidence. There are differing levels of faith and investment thereof, but fundamentally all faith is identical. You believe something? Is it rooted in fact or hearsay? Guess what, doesn't matter. If you didn't experience it firsthand you're operating on faith. Like you literally only have faith the moon isn't made of cheese because you dan sure don't have the math skills to theoretically prove it's gravitational pull

huh... why take people with demonstrated tendency to follow a idea and just make them sad when you could just as easily point them into a positive direction with just as much thought?

or would you prefer grunting noises and arm waving to translate that?

in quite a few spiritual circles throughout time this actually pops up relentlessly.
the notion that God wanted to know who he was in every shape and form and exploded (big bang) and every single soul is a tiny part of him and through re-incarnation all the combined life-experiences will ultimately go back into the original shape or form.

personally if and when....I would want this one to true as it makes much more sense then any of the other crap.

what a constructive response

I think God being a creator, would not understand our evil the way we do. Evil on our plane of existence would be far below the creators, and trivial in its scale for the most part. Not the big picture, so to speak.

I am totally with you that people need to think more. That goes for everything.

I dont think its wrong for people to assign labels and names to concepts that are very difficult to conceptualize. I dont really care if people call it god, allah, shiva, thor or whatever. I care if people think. I respect any belief that is well thought out, regardless of whether i agree or not.

The only people who i try to convert to sanity are bible literalists.

Maby originally religions were in the way You described it. But currently all of them are about one thing - money.

Of course there are people within that trying do things You described but it is pointless actually. It is wasting of time.

Every human has within Self possibility to get in touch with this "god-thing" without any priests or other shit like them. We dont need priests. We need shamans - guides that know how to point direction.

Doesn't the Higgs boson create mass?

By distinguishing between fact and hearsay, u made my point.
Whats a "fact"?
Whats a "hearsay"?
Whats the difference between hearsay and statistics?

Yes, you are completely right.

I don't care what their beliefs are if the science is sound; demonstrable, testable and repeatable is what matters.

>Faith means you believe something without specific evidence.

not that user, but actually faith in its spiritual essence is one of personal and individual proof.

also the reason why this discussion will always end in the same manner.

Ok, well then explain how something comes from nothing. How does science explain that? It just exists because matter happens to exist?

unclear image goal.

The constructive response would require teaching you a fuck tonne, what he was doing is pointing out the flaw so you can revise for yourself

It's the institutionalizations of our beliefs. Anything translated to our level of existence would be rife with problems from said level. We create our own evil, and Hell as it is imagined.

that's what I said. That's where all my uncertainty comes from really, more or less.

>argument from popularity

Getting real tired of seeing these lame ass threads. OP we get it you're the all powerful seer and we are all subjective retards. Please guide our species to its salvation you advanced motherfucker. You seem to be ahead of the game bro really nice of you to try and help out some inferiors. We could sure use some more of your stupid fucking questions. This faggots ego is through the roof. Get off the high horse you ain't onto anything special.

"Of what we don't see"

Again, without evidence.

This calls back to my point about misrepresentation of what these holy books actually say, though I hope you're a Poe or devil's advocate.

gives it weight

what r u even arguing for?

I see you've read Dawkins.

His redefinition is not widely accepted, except by fresh freshmen.

Agnosticism goes back, in record, to the 400's and Sanjaya Belatthiputta, who does not define agnosticism and atheism in such clear cut, easily fitting terms. Agnostic theism/atheism is not a thing. It was not a thing. Dawkins engendering it among college freshmen doesn't make it a thing. Agnosticism is far more closely related to dialectical existentialism than it is to "being about knowledge."

But, honestly, I don't expect you to know or understand the difference. It's enough to say you're wrong, and you ought to stop.

but thats what jesus says tho

try actually reading the bible

>spiritual humans
What do you mean by that?
Also, placebo effect has a limit. Hence why the humans like Galileo started thinking _otherwise_
For people like Galileo, baseless assumptions (god, except if you think that humans appearing on this planet are obviously god's work) are merely the fruit of ignorance.
But my biggest question here is how do you define spiritual humans.
And thanks for sharing your thoughts

This is anti-intellectualism. This is extremely popular. It hasn't always been.

But it certainly found fertile soil in you.

But I feel like in the end all you did was say I was wrong without actaully teaching me anything.

So belief in God, but not acceptance of current models, right?

youtube.com/watch?v=6cUho6LlI1o

Captain Bible is possibly Satanic.

Cehcked.

Also - yes we create our reality and we are responsible for it. But because so many of us are not in touch with The Self we create hell. Because that is suffering in clear form.

Our level of existence is defined by US. We decide what leve it is. And when we are mindless beasts we create such reality.

...

we didnt come from nothing. Nothing did come from anywhere, nothing doesnt exist. If it existed, it wouldnt be nothing, it wouldve been sth. There always was sth and there wasnt "before". We existed before and we will exist later. We didnt start to exist earlier, cuz the conditions required for living r specific and rare to occur. Its very simple.

I understand what you are saying. Just I have heard it both ways and I think its interesting to think that faith might not be entirely blind.

ask that same question the next time you walk down the street in a kkk uniform in Detroit as opposed to china

yup, that's what i was getting at as well
just some pretentiously saying you're wrong with some padding

read linked post

this:

We actually share a lot of the same thoughts through a different lense. I think you are totally right that we are selfish beings even when doing good for goodness sake. Feeling good about ones self is a tangible benefit. I think that aknowleging this is being intellectually honest.

I dont feel that this is evil. I dont think humans are inherently evil or good. I believe that a rational selfish being should realize that our chances for survival go up when people help one another. The only real way we can make this happen is by being helpful ourselves.

People are all over tha map with this one. As far as saying agnostic and what it means to them. Seems worse whenever someone tries to assign a one word label for anything. Christian means Catholic to some and the like. It makes communication harder mostly.

Yes. The argument, "you just dont understand" doesnt do anything for me.

i get what you're saying fro the most part, but do you mind expanding on what you're saying, for me to understand more clearly

Why does he have to solve anything asshole? Do you realize what a dumb dick you just made yourself?

It's religion that claims something from nothing, not science. Poof, a sky wizard made the universe from nothing. Now is this a deliberate misrepresentation of science, or ignorance?

The honest answer, right now, is we don't know. We have ideas, with varying amounts ts of supporting evidence, but we don't have a complete understanding of it yet. That doesn't make GODDIDIT the winner by default.

Besides, how do you know something can't come from nothing? Define nothing, and then present the sample of nothing you tested to determine something cannot come from it.

Btw, something can come from nothing, depending on the nothing. Particles have been observed popping into and out of existence. Read some lawrence Krauss. Interesting stuff, though largely beyond my understanding.

u r under a wrong impression im gonna read all that bullshit. If u cant summarise your beliefs before pouring walls of text about "control and illuminati", ill just regard u as being wrong and u gonna love it.

Definition 1: faith as a response to event

Definition 2: faith as response to information

How is the essence any different? If I believe being kind to you will improve your future and it does not, maybe I have been foolish. That does not mean it's bad, and if you aren't a little foolish sometimes your life will be bland.

maleformed, but okay, the difference in willingness to explain or assert is not in ability but knowing where your limitaions are.

It means human that is in touch with The Self. Human that understand who he is, what he is and why he is. Human that is responsible for his surroundings and actions and understand that each other human is like him. And have curage to allow them to be self without any enforcements or forcing others to "what i want and think is good". Human that understand what evil is, what good is and knows how to recognise them. Human that knows what choices are worthy to take and what actions are not worthy, because preserving life is not the most valuable thing. He knows his hertage and lives by it.

I have a lot of respect for druidic and shamanistic faiths.

Totally agree that institutions as they are now need reform. I dont write them off though. They have, can and in many cases do serve(d) a legitimate societal purpose.

They just need to evolve with the times.

i mentioned how i understand "good". Ppl have a lot of problems with good and evil and im strong enough to deal with consequences of being called "evil"

I belive that there is most likely no one omnicient and omnipotent being. It is possible that there may be more than one, but I think it is more likely that there are none.
I do think that as many people have reported stories and expierences with such beings that there may be a possibility of them existing, but i would say that more likely such expierences are the product of hallucinogenics and self delusion rather than honest expierential communication.
I, myself have had some expierences which some may attribute to supernatural beings, since I am a wizard. However I practice magic more as a science to try and explain the effects observed through theories about conscious physics.

we r over this

Ok start by being less of a tool. Get back to me when you can do that.

It could be that, certainly. More, that there can't be certainty in even the things we know. That what we know is based on us, personally. And that is either an objective limit, or it isn't.

Here's a quote I like from Belatthiputta.

>If I thought that there exists another world, would I declare that to you? I don't think so. I don't think in that way. I don't think otherwise. I don't think not. I don't think not not.

I don't disagree. The topic of agnosticism is inherently abstruse. My issue is this pop philosophy that Dawkins has pushed and places like Cred Forums have been swallowing for over a decade and reciting rote as if it were fact.

An agnostic wouldn't approve.

I won love it. Only thing You prove is that You are ingorant and cannot live by words You speak.

>They have, can and in many cases do serve(d) a legitimate societal purpose.

pls elaborate.

More common sense than any religion. But it is religion that teaches a lot of people about HOW to act. And why. It's subjective, and in the hands of those who raise us.

religion is not a bad thing

lot of people here got he wrong idea. It's the representatives of said religons, the leaders. These are the truly corrupt. Religion is a powerful institution that can induce a lot of change, people know this, and take advantage of it. And there are those who use religion for good. Don't hate religion, hate the pastors, priests, rabbis; these are the people that have given religion the stigma it has now

Yeah and you and the other guy are one in the same then. what he said made perfect sense.

Your last paragraph is interesting and finally a counter argument. I just think like you said, "right now, we dont know" that does not mean that God wins. I just choose to believe in God because that is where I would rather put all my eggs. Does that make sense?

Your lack of believing in God is your own choice based on something not entirely proven. I have no problem with that. I just choose to believe in God instead.

Fair enough. I dont mind being called evil and i can certainly understand how me beliefs can be called such. Just not the way i look at the world.

They evolved in state they currently are. We dont need them. Not in shape they are as they are. And they much more do shit things than good things.

But that change must be a consequence of Uplifting State of Consciousness it cannot be forced.

Use translate next time or stfu.

>preserving life is not the most valuable thing
That I agree but this:
>a spiritual human knows why he is
Do you define yourself as a spiritual human? If yes, here's a hard one:
tell me why you are and why I am

But let's say there is a God, and you end up going to Hell. Wouldn't you have wanted to believe otherwise if you were alive?

Satan and God are both money fags

rule of identity. A=A and A=/=~A. "Existance" has only 1 charateristic - existing. Non-existance cannot exist. If it did, it wouldve been existance and "to be" would be "not to be". So theres no "nothing". So we couldntve come from nothing.
How often do u stumble upon new life coming to be? U dont. How earth is now is not conductive to just make life happen anew all he time. It is merely conductive to keeping life alive.
humanitys history stretches for more than today. There were humans thousands of years ago and will be thousands of years later.

I'm Agnostic, and I believe that an omnipotent deity COULD exist, rather than CAN'T or DOES.

I just like to keep an open mind, I believe what I choose to believe, if there is enough evidence to something being true, the more likely I am to believe it.

I also think that others can believe what they want. It is what they chose, and if they are happy with it, that is good for them, I would only dissaprove if it brings harm to ones self or others, or if it is universally bad, but still, it is their choice.

Also, don't be a dick and say 'what I believe is the only right way to believe, everyone must believe in this because everyone else is wrong'. In this case, no answer is correct (yet), yet none are wrong

So a fact is something you can prove with evidence. I can demonstrate to you 2 plus 2 equals 4, and likewise an individual could prove other planets have mass with math and a telescope. I'm saying YOU have to have faith the things I'm saying are false because I have the experience to declare they are fact

Was in a mirrored piece of glass?

Stop promoting your snorefest on tape cuck.

while u prove u dont know what u r talkin about.
So i win.

Religions provide ready schematics and ready answers. But they can be misleading - vide islam and giaurs. Also many religions do not explain WHY? we should act as they say and if they provide explanation it is based on dogmas.

That is not the Human Being should act and live. Humans are seeds, acorns for example. Every acorn has potential to become oak, but not every one becomes one. Some will be fertilizers, some will be food. With us is the same thing and in all "sacred texts" You have it spoken. But because priests class and their "only rightfull" interpretation many of us acts like sheeps, not humans. They follow orders.

institutionalized religion is absolute cancer user.

because its human nature to abuse powers. even if you with your golden heart would become a religious leader, priest, or otherwise, you would get corrupt.

check out any organisation that claims to help people, even non-religious and there are endless tails of corruption.

its human nature but if we add religion to it, it becomes cancer.

spirituality is fine, and in many cases needed, but as soon as we organise its over with.

I'm a strong-agnostic spiritualist. I feel very certain that it's impossible to prove, disprove, or know for sure whether there's a benevolent higher power; however, I personally choose to believe, because it makes me happy.

Nigger did you just say to me the Higgs boson gives weight to mass lol

What a Satan fag, go kill yourself.

Gah i really wish i didnt have to go back to work right now. Im really enjoying this.

It is important for humans to be able to conceptualize what happens when we die. It is important for us to be able to develop concrete moral guidelines that are coherent to our outlook. Religion serves and served that purpose. Science and discovery are starting to take up that social space. Religion still has a place there but needs to evolve to incorporate what we are learning about reality. There are institutions that are actively doing this. I like paulists for example.

You use it lazy ignorant fuck.

what if, now hear me out, there is a heaven, but no hell? Christianity preaches that our God is loving God, and humans are imperfect and extremely erroneous creatures. If someone who has spent their whole life denying God because of the resources (whatever they may be, intangible or not) around him, why would God punish him? He knew no better, this was the life that was prescribed to him. I'm sure that if such a person presented himself in the eyes of God, he would be full of regret and admit his wrongdoing, and be forgiven.
Perhaps hell exists for those who deliberately deny God after death.

Not user.
If god is truly loving and not an asshole, then just being a good person during your life should be enough to go to paradise shouldn't it?
Having faith is a driver to make you a good person isn't it?
God's words are supposed to make you do the right things, good things

>based on something not entirely proven
>I just choose to believe in God
Hahaha

Im just tryna say no one fucking cares you faggot. Don't you know any people irl you can discuss your wisdom with? Chances are you know some people but they aren't willing to listen to your fruity take on entities and spiritual beings and religion in general. Same pathetic op as the last thread. You're not a monk never will be. You're not original never will be. You aren't teaching anyone anything except that, yes there sure are some wild beliefs out there! Is this fuckin Bill Maher casting his line or what. Jesus fuck

Other people...sucks for you to know that they give a fuck huh? I personally don't but find your pathetic ass hilarious.

Jesus did not write the bible and while he was a great guy he had some real shitty friends. There would be no Christianity if not for Paul

belief isnt a matter of choice, its a matter of conviction.
Do u believe in god?

interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain that.

Fair enough, and of course I respect your right to believe whatever you like, and I've enjoyed the back and forth with everyone in this thread so far, mostly.

What you've got there, from the looks of it, is Pascal's Wager. It's a terrible reason to believe, and worse still to believe in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, but Meh. So long as your beliefs don't harm anyone else, it's nunamybidness.

These fucking captchas. Cred Forums sucks for meaningful threads. Imma go look at some tits now.

Illogical leaps that say nothing about me, but are evidence of much about you.

lol

What us sth

I can't agree or deny that, just because I have never been in a position where I wield such power, but I like it nonetheless

Why You are i cannot say. Why i am - i have answer but it is not easy one. It wasnt easy one for me and i went thought really deep shit to find out. Im Volkhv. Its kida like slavic shaman. Im here to provide directions for younger "souls" that are lost in darkness.

But im here lat time. I will never return here again. That planet, beautifull, is hell for more living beings that most humans are ready to accept it.

All answers You will find within The Self.

i dont have faith they r wrong, i dont have the proof they r right. Why would i act upon sth i dont know is real?

have a good one user.

I have to disagree though, we don't need religion to tell us how to behave. experience and social conduct can do that, and has done so for long times across the globe.

you don't need religion to tell you you cannot kill another person. seriously man.

That was my point fuck face, he said he would not explain anything because it would be too difficult in English, but he also never posted in his own language you lazy ignorant piece of dumb shit. Learn to fucking think and read and stuff you fucking cuck.

Wait, what is funny about that? Is it not logical to believe in God and that science was created by him considering there is no proof I have heard that clearly supports that things just magically happened?

So that's your evidence? Think about it yourself? Do you realize how pretentious you are? Do you really think that nobody in the world has thought about it themselves before they came to their own conclusion which you dismiss without evidence and then tell them arrogantly to "get involved by Yourself"(gonna assume this means "think about it while on drugs")?

u mean "what IS «sth»"? Its an abbreviation of "something"

can someone make another thread?
I'd like to continue seeing what everyone has to say

Is rare to find someone who doesn't just think they are better based on their belief. I enjoyed our conversation as well. Thanks.

Yeah... the difference between us is that i dont fight for "winnig" or to "be right". Thats ego talk.

Truth is hard pill to swallow.

I dont give a fuck what you will do with it. But after today You will not have "i didnt know" card to play. That is your choice and your consequences.

no, the difference is i know what im saying, u dont and u cant defend it.

I DID posted You fucktard. It is MY words. I spent more than 10 years to build by understanding and i try to putit in easy form. But for you it is too much. So fuck you kindly.

Energy is mass, and mass is energy. We aren't just born with energy, we ARE energy, always throughout our lives. And when we die, we decompose and that energy is dispersed among the Earth, and ultimately throughout the universe. In a way, this concept has similarities to buddhist philosophy which defines us all being part of an "oversoul", or a single collective substance that itself constitutes everything. Even though I'm personally agnostic, I do appreciate the elegance of energy conservation and the fact that everything is fundamentally the same at the lowest level.

Your gay little post says everything anyone needs to know about you.

You dont know the difference between egoistic way of thinking and Knowing The Self.

>Dumb people will then use this quote to justify something that is actually just really fucking stupid, and should be ridiculed.

Here's something I love that everyone should try. Read up on a handful of philosophies and theories of the universe (read especially the thunderbolts project) and have someone you respect and whose company you enjoy do the same. Now get a nice bottle of scotch, I prefer bowmore 15. Drink the scotch with your buddy and discuss who is right. Helps if youre both witty and funny. I have had more fun shooting the shit half cut on scotch than anything else.

he did post links to forum posts in his language. Its some control talk - he looks like some conspiracy theorist

Also I do not believe in hell. Just a lack of existence after death. (would take too long to explain)

So it's not that I am afraid of possible punishment.

Of this statement seems true
the other made me laugh out loud
neither making much since.

To build full perspective You need a wide look up on many topics. They are all connected.

Without effort there will be no progress.

interesting response, thanks

Part of my reasoning is that people always made storeis about how the gods did this or that, but nowadays? Now we have a weatherman that tells us what will happen. Unless we live in Colorado, in which case our weatherman is an idioit and should be burned at the stake.

Then replaced with one of those cute weather girls from brazil or Japan.

pic related

Because that's what you do as a human in this day and age. No matter what you do sooner or later you believe in something you aren't sure about. How about this; when was the last time you read an iTunes agreement? Like me, probably fuckin never. So you have faith their not going to use your data for nefarious purposes as we all know they legall could

Atheist here

I feel that any discussion of religious topics is literally by definition a waste of time

(That is of course with the exception of discussing religion in historical contexts)

Homosexuality is an abomination and homosexuals should be put to death.

Stone your unruly children.

Do not suffer a witch to live.

Seriously, try reading the Bible. It's got some absolutely horrific, immoral pronouncements in it.

No, since a true god wouldn't send anyone to hell, as he is an omnicoent being and recognizes we all disintegrate when we die.

I'd have to disagree with you, that seems like a very nihilistic approach

The Bible has some great parables. Having read and broken down the King James, it becomes clear it was written over a long period of time by many different authors. Hence the astounding number of inconsistencies. But it's a great work. It has valuable teachings. A ho snook of sorts for some. I'm Agnostic. And I have read a lot of books including the entire Bible. It's really because of relativity and life. It shapes who we are.

Handbook. Not Ho snook.

Generation-Z is doing just fine without religion.

Thats some real taste you got user. Much respect to you. Honestly sounds like a valuable experience with the right person.

That doesn't mean it can't be used for good either. By that logic, humans themselves can't do good, it wouldn't be limited to institutions. We're erroneous creatures, we've obviously condemned that way of life. At least those who are civilized. Idk, I could expand, I think I've made my point clear.

This is Pascal's wager, and is one of the worst reasons to believe.

How do we determine which God is the right god? And most of them say that if you worship the wrong one, you don't get your ticket to paradise (and worse still you get to burn for eternity when some of these "all loving and forgiving" gods send you to hell).

Religions. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

why didnt he prove himself to me?
Kratos left tartarus 3 times, ill manage too. Ill kick some demons ass and take his domain, until i reach the top.
What will u do, if u go to heaven? What if u broke your nose and had a surgery, that made it look better? What if u were born malformed? R u gonna be happy in heaven lookin like the thing?

and im doing just fine with them

We need moar for comparison

i thought the same thing but the hard part for me is discerning who that friend would be. I think I'm too young now to know, maybe sooner down the road, but it won't be too long from now.

that's why I said thisin regards to the "loving and forgiving" statement you made

>faith
Or more likely just intelligent enough to know that if there was anything fishy in the iTunes agreement, it would have been published all over the place and therefore it's a waste of time to check yourself because some lawyer somewhere has already been paid by a company to check it

who is this?

oh, thats simple - i dont use iTunes at all.
The real thing is i get Caribbean versions of software, if u know, what i mean and agreeing to ToS never resulted in anything negative for me. So i have a history of experiences, that clicking "agree" doesnt hurt me, but lets me install the programs. So its still not faith.
When was the last time u signed a deal without reading it? Cuz i always read all the deals.

>valuable teachings
In a moral sense or a historical sense? I like old testament literature for historical analysis, but the new testament is just a bunch of horseshit moral lessons that are all common sense right and wrong scenarios a 7 year old should understand. The fact that people need religion to teach them or motivate them to be moral is fucking pathetic, period.

what do u mean caribbean versions? are they made of plantains or something?

Thinking that the discussion which fairy tale is missy likely to be real is nihilistic?

Most belief in religion today is just a crutch on true pursuit of knowing

People will actively avoid topics of science, morality and philosophy because "God already said what happened and how I should act questioning that is heresy"

I would prefer to contribute to society than hinder it's progress

If that makes me a nihilist sign me up

that doesnt mean its what they say it is - a perfect word of all-knowing, loving god. U can use "Mein Kampf" as a moral guidelines and hold it in high reverence , cuz it has a sentence or 2 of good things. If its as bad as its good, why do u need it? Just take the good bits and never look back. R the good parts good, cuz they r good? So whats god needed for? R they good, cuz god said so? Then they r arbitrary and i can say they r evil, like stoning homos and kids and god is an evil fuck not worthy of any1s worship.

Most not missy

I feel you user. Takes a certain kind of person to hold such a conversation. Rare amongst the youth.

i cant get into details, in case fbi is watching. Figure it out

>aka not intelligent enough to digest legalese
It's not a waste of time to defend your privacy unless you have a personally assured contingency. Maybe you're just too milquetoast to believe in anything beyond your field of vision. Maybe you're too faithful to your lack of faith

>Thinking that the discussion which fairy tale is missy likely to be real is nihilistic?
Just realized I never finished my thought

That should be read as "Thinking that the discussion of which fairy tale is most likely to be real to be pointless is nihilistic?"

sorry, I didn't really say much for you to have known what I meant. But it seems like you've come across some pretty stupid people, I've never had the displeasure of meeting people like that. I think these things should be discussed, even if you don't believe in them. I see how they can be a waste of time for you, but it would be an acquisition of knowledge that can perhaps strengthen your argument, since you're understanding the reasoning and logic behind why people believe in the things they do.

First of all ive never owned nor have i worn a fedora even ironically.

Second fuck you.

Third i wasnt demanding you share your faith. I respect that it must be deeply personal for you and wouldnt want to force you into a conversation you arent comfortable with.

It IS important to understand different beliefs. We interact with so many different people and ideas every day. It is important to at least understand the variety and complexity of these ideas even if you cant respect them.

For the record really not trying to convince anyone of anything. I wanted to hear other peoples ideas because thats how i grow as a person. I heard a lot in this thread that i am actively processing and may legitemately change MY way of thinking. Yours is not one of those ideas.

I dont often say this but you are categorically wrong.

fbi isnt watching ur nigger ass boi
u arent special they dont care if you site ripped bangbros my nigger

i have the right to remain silent

He is fighting to "win" or "be right". Thats all.

Again, though, if you've picked the wrong one, or even just the wrong interpretation,you could very well be in for an eternity of torture.

So now we have to come up with a method by which we can determine which one is right.

You've probably noticed that hasn't happened yet. And I have not been sufficiently convinced that any of them are right. And so I adopt the default position of non belief.

I guess I mean in terms of basic lessons. The idea that people who don't know any better(and might not otherwise), could learn from some of these stories. It's the whole idea that gets me. I can't accept this many ideas as fact, the way they want you to in many religions. But some stories are about what is right and wrong. It's why I'm agnostic, but your right. Some of it is harder to accept if your critical and logical.

Ohh yeah i got that. Still thought it would be good to respond since it speaks to my reason for starting the thread.

i understand what you're saying, and I respect that

i wont slam other religions because i have not done the research. but Christianity is one of the worst religions. it advertises inclusivity, but as you continue to get further in you learn that God has predestined whether or not people believe. but christians are so fucking caught up in being chosen they forget that there are others that are chosen to go to hell instead of heaven too.