We are living in a simulated reality, probably within another simulation. Discuss

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It's true. Elon Musk said so

>if i can imagine something happening, then it did happen, and happened an infinite number of times

this is what atheists actually believe

If a simulation is sufficiently complex and thorough enough to be indistinguishable from reality, why make the distinction?

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really?
where's Kinzie when we need her?

I recommend "Our Mathematical Universe" by Max Tegmark.

That actually describes the ontological argument for God pretty well. William Lane Craig loves that one.

It's possible.
But unverifiable, and therefore unscientific.
Regardless, if true we're part of the simulation, and therefore it doesn't have any meaningful material significance.

But our universe is the one running on faulty hardware and shitty drivers and outdated os

itt a lot of dumb people egostroking each other lel. go back to your algegra 2 homework

Sent from my Android phone

Well whoever is playing me is seriously disappointed with the character they rolled.

Well, what about this: How can someone make technology advance with more substance then allowed for that technology to advance?

What if the ones running our simulation are scrambling to upgrade their hardware before we get our own simulation and overload their capabilities, crashing their system and ending ourselves.

Computational power. Due to things such as entropy, to simulate our universe you require the total computational power of our universe, plus some.

It's like how you can use your computer to run Windows 10, and then run an emulator program to run Windows 8. The version of Windows 8 running cannot be as powerful as Windows 10, because part of the computational power is running Windows 10 itself - Windows 8 can only use what is left over.

Nobody has to be playing you you're just an npc probably

If we are in a simulation, that would explain how I can get dubs whenever I want.

kekked

> The version of Windows 8 running cannot be as powerful as Windows 10, because part of the computational power is running Windows 10 itself - Windows 8 can only use what is left over.
wut is a compiler that can compile itself

durr durr durr

Sent from my Android phone

Or a better analogy; you have a box inside a box. Can both boxes be the same size?

No. The one inside the other must be smaller to some degree, else it won't fit.

i thought about this on acid, i kept picturing a ballerina kinda phasing in a painting frame on the ceiling that she was kinda in a portal of with her feet down toward earth and her upper torso in the different dimension

If we're in a simulation, I get dubs, leave my house, and fuck my sister.

Didn't want them this time?

Because it has to be at least as complex as ours in order to have a simulation of ours.

Long story short, a computer large enough simulate the universe always has to have more computing space than the universe

Not who you're replying to, but the compiler has more resources than itself. It has the system that allows it to compile in the first place, hence where the extra complexity is involved.

That's comparing apples and boxes

Well now you're comparing similes and apples.

It's comparing a geometric figure to a spacetime.

That's actually a pretty common comparison.

Only if our knowledge of such matters applies to the real universe and not just our simulation

No, but I want them now.

Can you run Windows 8 in a VM running on Windows 8? Yes.

Can you run Windows 10 in a VM running on Windows 8? Yes.

OP is correct, we are in a simulation. Names of things and people are rearranging because there are errors in our matrix server. That would imply one of two things. part of our population is artificial intelligence, or that we can be rearranged at will and we wont remember.

We know that #2 is not correct, due to the mandela effect.

Good one.

the box inside could be bigger in a different dimension that the bigger box doesn't exist in

A+

You're going about it the wrong way. It's not about which version can run the other version, it's about running that version with the exact same resources as the original, but using the same resources. That VM will never have the amount of resources that the host machine does because the host machine is hosting them. If the VM running inside of the Host was running at full 100% capacity, the server would crash because it ran out of resources.

It is not entirely impossible existence is a simulation. However, because there is no evidence to suggest it, then why believe it. Rationally or empirically there is no way to firmly argue that the world is a simulation. So, then just because it cannot be disproved it should not just be believed.

>what are miracles
>what are ghosts (even though they're actually probably infrasound)
>what are all of the crazy things people believe in.

That's why people would believe it. People know what they saw, and they won't let anyone tell them otherwise because they weren't there to see it. It's hard to convince someone that something isn't real when the surveyor has less evidence than the person who is assumed to be wrong.

1) let's say the chance that something will happen after you die is 1 : almost infinity.
2) now let's assume that a universe is created through the singularity of another universe, e.g. a black whole from a bigger univere. If the universe collapses it will be pulled back into the bigger universe (given that it reverse), elements could be sucked into the next black hole (only example) creating a new singularity or the universe just magically rebirths out of itself anew.
3) ok now you die. you are dead forever, unless that everything that exists is a hologramm, meaning that actually the subjectiv level of existence is one 'universe' higher (e.g. the real you is using your body as a vessel). Your lucky dice gets rolled - 4652165 - nope, still dead. No hologramm.
4) The universe you rolled on collapses after an infinite amount of time -> that could be a hologramm - roll - nope - dead - rinse and repeat.
5) If as said above one of these universes would ever get a yes, then that would mean that every lower universe would also be a hologramm, catapulting you from infinite infinite deaths through universes to the situation where you start your new existance, not knowing that time has ever passed between two vessels for conciousnes, since you did not exist between them. It would be like some kind of transcedent wormhole, leaving your cosmic coordinates the same. Just zooming in or out until a connection has been made.

This would let all theories be true, and every idea ever created fits into that scheme

If you don't like the zooming out version, just zoom in with coma, virtual reality, you being a computerprogram, when you dream, etc...

Whether youre right or wrong, the experience doesn't change. Experience IS the meaning of life. Stop desensitizing yourself and you'll realize this.

Does that mean I have to stop masturbating to pictures of traps?

This... makes me content with my life.

This actually fails, though, because it implies that the simulation of reality is as equally complex as reality itself, when it isn't. I work in simulation, and to make a simulation indistinguishable from reality would rely mostly on image rendering and mathematical models. It is kind of like the difference between vector and raster images. The former actually takes up far less space than the raster equivalent.

In addition, and kind of important, is that a simulation doesn't have to be an exact replica, just one sufficiently convincing to fool humans. A lot of humans are dumb.

You are correct. It is our experience that matters.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

thx user, I could explain it alot more if my english skills were better and I would not have to type everything. I could go on with this for hours, this shit's been keeping me up at night for years

Nah man, do your thing. Consciousness enjoys experimenting with itself.

Logically there are 3 possibilities.

1. Simulations are impossible.
2. There are simulations but we are the "real" world.
3. We are a simulation.

1 seems unlikely and if they are possible and billions of universes could exist we are much more likely in a simulation

Kek at your lack to desire to think for thinking's sake

We all died in 2012. A good portion of the people around you are artificial intelligence. That is why people say the population changed by 2 billion, in the opposite direction. Whether it is real or not does not matter. We are the most important things. science, social programming in school and group social opinions intended to make you think you are meaningless, just a speck of dust in a vast universe of diversity.

If nothing is true and reality isn't real then why can't you escape your coordinates? what is holding you? You can deny every existance of reality around you, even the feeling in your fingers while typing your answer, but in the end there is something undeniable that differates you from anything else around you, my only explanation is that it is the coordinate you exist in; like a bit on a floppy drive. It can be different programms, but the bit remains at the same location relative to other bits

Same poster. If y'all are following this thread you may already know of Terence McKenna. If not, check him out. One of the best thinkers of our era.

youtu.be/GN-vMMpja30

Nothing is true, except that you're a faggot.

Jewish "people" promote this anti reality, anti intellectual bullshit because they want suckers like you to live a life of destructive hedonism

Point is, reality is what you make of it. None of us knows another's reality. None of us can KNOW the full scope of reality, so live for the experience.

Consume more

Kek at your misunderstanding of the importance of thinking. The thinking mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master. I enjoy thinking a lot actually. I follow my heart, but I take my brain with me.

that could be possible but it doesnt matter , this is your reality and you experience things here

Ha thanks for keeping me in check faggot

doing nothing is also an experience, you don't get a prize for diversifying.

Do nothing

look at you, speaking with the hologramm as if it was real... you know exactly that this is your reality and are the only true individual to experience something. But nice touch, very convincing

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the argument goes that the number of simulations anyone ever runs of a universe is probably much greater than the number of actual universes, ergo we are probably living in a simulation.

On the other hand that's fucking stupid since you would need an infinite amount of space and computation to run a simulation of a universe, let alone power. and if that universe is simulated too then we're talking about an infinity of simulations running on a single universe, which is obviously ludicrous

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because you looking at it the wrong way, if an universe creates a universe (hologram) then the creating universe has much easier means to keep that running. It does not have to be a computer. And being a hologram doesn't make it less real for the subject inside it.

I would even argue that being a simulation doesn't even make it less real for the subject outside. If it's not real, then we would be talking about nothing, but we are talking about something.

you know whats kinda scary , probability doesnt exist , free will is illusion
if you flip a coin whats the chance of heads or tails ? 50% each ? bullshit , coin never lands in 50% tails and 50% heads , its always chosen heads or tails , there is no chance , chance doesnt exist

that is true, in the form you are communicating with me now you are only a simulation to me, it's not like you are in my room. But still our simulated typings in the internet are read on each of our computerscreens and have meaning

>Does that mean the quickreply box has my conciousness as long as i am using it?

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sauce?

I always differentiated chance and determinism by point of view:

Being inside a system you can't predict what the next flip would be, so you can at least go at it with probability

Seeing it from outside the system you know what the choices are, what is going to next, etc... So everything is determined

So sure, even if you say we have no free will and probability is a fluke (seing it as a whole), we are stuck in the system and one can not flee from uncertainty

>both exist at same time
>just the point of view is important

It is easy to tell just look at these shoddy graphics, unbalanced rules and builds. Hell the jet fuel melting steel beams glitch before the 10/11 patch was aweful.

in the result nothing really matters

Were we to be in a simulation, the simulation would be the most complex thing we'd perceive or understand. We'd be limited by the rules of the simulation itself.

Even if the outer, realer reality has to be more complex, I don't see why it can't be. Our understanding of physics is our understanding of our simulation.

that is right, there is no meaning other than the one you give it

wubalubadubdub

It is not possible that we are living in a simulation.
- smartest guy on earth

A static abyss...

Can't chill, because the sun don't freeze.

Dunno if that would necessarily be true. Fractals can be self-similar, and therefore, may contain copies (near copies) of themselves as a subset.

this dude is wrong

-smartest guy in the solar system

nuh-uh

- dave from accounting

If it was so, then magic would be a thing.
>inb4 magic is a thing

Someone once asked the dalai lama if a random number counter (that has been recorded to respond to consciousness) has consciousness, and his responsecond was that if you believe it to have consciousness then it does.

Fuck autocorrect

You're a fucking retard
-God

See
I fucked up

If any civilization had the power to create a simulation sophisticated enough that intelligent life within the simulation could consider it reality, then they would find themselves at a cross-roads:

1. Don't create the simulation by choice. Your world may or may not be a simulation.

2. Create the simulation. Your world now has a higher likelihood of also just being a simulation.

Because of this paradox which is obvious to me (and certainly would be to intelligence capable of creating such a simulation), the obvious decision would be to not create the simulation. This applies to all sorts of recursive situations involving the universe. Act and you are one of the child recursions. Don't act and you are the top-level of a recursion that never happened.

>tldr: I'm as smart as every living being ever so fuck your idea

What warps my mind is, a super advanced simulation would still have to limit itself, because it would take unlimited resources and unlimited information to produce an unlimited simulation. But you can "cheat" this aspect by having invisible limitations on the simulation.

Example, how in video games (think Oblivion, Fallout 3, Homeworld, Half Life...etc) you see a horizon stretching on forever, and huge structures in the background, and a beautiful sky...but it's all an illusion, you can't get there from here. But with well crafted design the player doesn't "feel" like it's an illusion, it looks like you can really get there, and you don't notice that the game has subtly steered you to something else and distracted you away. And when you look too close at something, it seems that the "detail" of the world breaks down. Programmers have been fighting this effect with ever more complex graphics techniques. The fact that we are still nowhere near a fully detailed photo realistic world in video games underlines this problem.

Unfortunately, I find it slightly frightening that this is what we seem to have run into in the "real" world; Scientists looked through magnifying glasses, then microscopes, then electron microscopes, and now examinations on the atomic and subatomic level, with atom smashers...and in effect when we discovered quantum mechanics, we discovered a wall of confusion beyond which we seem unable to see. It is like the curtain that hides the fact that there's nothing actually beyond the curtain..but we can't become aware of that. So instead it's a wall and we can't see beyond it. "Nothing to see here folks!"

Same thing with the visible universe. It "seems" like we can get there from here, But take our nearest star a lowly 4 light years away. Yet Earth's best scientists can't currently even suggest how we'd get there without spending endless resources and thousands of years in transit. Think: the dome wall in Truman Show...watch it

MAGIC IS SO A THING. LET ME PROVE IT TO YOU...... *nothing happens*

The idea of becoming sentient enough to become aware you are a simulation is preposterous. Assuming you are programmed, nothing you do (or "reason") escapes the parametters set by the programmer. You would be unable to attain knowledge of that which makes up "you" and "everything" because there is no physical plain for you to manipulate, or wonder about. You would be the matter of a math projection, existing only at the time it is calculated, and it means that your every thought and action is, therefore, a script;

im glad it simulated my pollo tropical because that shit was good

What if I told you that this topic was already visited in 1999.

You've eaten mushrooms before, haven't you?

>because there is no physical plain for you to manipulate, or wonder about. You would be the matter of a math projection, existing only at the time it is calculated, and it means that your every thought and action is, therefore, a script;

and yet those of us who believe we exist in a deterministic universe right now believe this is exactly the case with our own universe...which makes this totally not a problem in a simulated universe

Matrixception. It's a morpheus INSIDE of a morpheus

which is also based off Simulacra and Simulation
Book by Jean Baudrillard.
About a map that is so realistic it becomes mistaken for the real world. Only when parts of the map begin to tear, do we see the real reality underneath.

What would be the point of simulating the rest of the galaxy / the rest of the universe?

Pff as if.

Not op but experimention perhaps

I recommend Planck length. Its the size of your penis

LSD, but not shrooms.

Not necessarily more complex, they could use algorithmic methods to generate our perceived reality similar to how some games don't use pre generated textures but make them procedurally.

you think simulation happens over night? It's a drawn out process that weaves its way through generations through technological advancement. You can observe our attraction for simulation in our entertainment culture. Video games, movies, whatever - We are increasingly becoming felt or enjoyed through imagined participation in the experience of others

With your logic:
but only having the possibility of creating one would be enough to increase the chance of a simulation, so you would have to stop technological progression. This would imply that it would have ANY effect on your status of being a simulation. Since we exist, there already is the chance of sim ulation, it doesn'T get higher with creating a simulation. Hell, the internet is a simulation. Books are simulations of worlds we believe are fictional; are we just caught in a book and someone is reading us right now? It could be just as possible as the 'we are in the matrix'-theorie. You try to simplify it by making it a computerprogram, and giving it process power, applying worldly physics to it.

Every modell is a simulation of something bigger, creating infinite simple to complex realities.

If you go by what the book was leading too, that this "reality" even if it is a simulation, becomes the truth. It is hyper-real, not a deception, but a true representation of reality.

It could probably be way more complex as there's no requirement to run it in real time, what might take eons for it to compute could take seconds of our time to perceive.

A Turing complete machine should be able to, with enough storage, compute this of virtually unlimited complexity.

If you use some fancy trickery, you don't actually have to simulate the entire universe, you just have to make it absolutely convincing that a real universe really is there. Again, like the dome wall in Truman Show made it look like the horizon stretched on into the distance, but it really didn't. And this wasn't a problem as long as they made it impossible for Truman to ever get near to that wall using multiple forms of trickery.

what if it gets generated first if you see it.
Without nobody experiencing it there is no reason for it to exist. In this case seeing would be relations of existance

>tree in forest falls story

>>what are miracles
>>what are ghosts (even though they're actually probably infrasound)
>>what are all of the crazy things people believe in.

Those are all symptoms of mental illnesses and people not understand reality.

If all our sciences and technology continue progressing, we WILL eventually learn so much about the universe and our planet, that we will be able to run simulations of our planet. We will get better and better at it, including the fact that we could make AI that is self sustaining and advancing at increasingly fast rates, to make even better versions of itself, and better simulations. Eventually the number of simulated universes would be so large and accurate, that we would barely be able to tell the difference between them and our own.

Then, if you realize that this could, and probably will happen (so long as we don't destroy ourselves), you have to think of the odds of us actually being IN a pre-simulated universe. After there are so many of them what would then be the chances of us being in the real one as opposed to just being one of billions/trillions of other simulated universes running on self-replicating godlike supercomputers?

Chances are, we're in the matrix right now Cred Forumsros.

I am not a robot

I reccomend the natural version. I personally felt psilocybin a little more in my heart than my head whereas acid was more controllable in a mental sense. It requires more of the capacity to surrender to higher consciousness but that can be really good for you spiritually.

that makes no sense. Whether or not the simulants create a simulation would have no bearing on whether or not they themselves were in a simulation.

Your argument makes no sense. Of course a box inside a box requires a bigger box - but I can write a program, right now, that simulates a box in its entirety.

I don't have to actively simulate every single atom in the universe, just the ones currently being observed by the subject's I'm studying -- much in the same way Grand Theft Auto only simulates citizens close to the player.

What if this universe was in fact all within the imagination of a greater being. Perhaps that being could be you, or your grandma, or some ant.

there real question is, what difference would it make if you knew? Are you going to crawl at the corner of universe like a bug trapped in a jar?
There would be nothing you could do about it, and after years and years of realisation, you'd come to the assumption that reality if relative.

As in video games, this is why you don't simulate the whole thing to an unlimited degree. You set invisible limitations and make it impossible to see that the limitations exist. Like a building far in the background of Half Life2...it's actually just a 2D painting...there's no need to simulate everything inside the building, just make sure the player can never "get there from here"

What if all of reality is just the smell of burnt toast?

We actually live in 12 dimensional space but they are only simulating 3 of them. Also don't even full detail small particles and just simulate them with a probability function.

the real question would be who burnt it and can i have some?

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agreed that simulating only three dimensions would be the easy part. simulating 7 billion thinking brains would be what makes the CPU run a bit warm.

lets say we do find other planets to live on and maybe some aliens or some shit
lets say the AI robots travel to outer space and find everything
then what, what are we looking to find or do?
what is the endgame?

Actually there is much more to reality to this and the real question is why did I try to group the entire universe into one idea and why did you see this as natural?

There is currently a being in the 31st simulation laughing at a being in the 32nd simulation.

Not really, only need a few thousand fully simulated brains rest are just basic AI that live their lives on rails. Really just an advanced NPC walking back and forth in front of a gate.

if you were in gods shoes. would you create something that you've seen before and know its entire behaviour? or would you create something that is beyond your knowledge and control to see how it turns out and learn from

Prove it bitch ;)

Because reality is a concept, nothing real. Everything is nothing

By your logic, me thinking about shitting on your head creates a universe where I actually shit on your head.

Ergo, I am currently shitting on your head.

Fake and gay. Infinite regress.

/thread

yes, you absolutely right. It already existed before you even thought about it. It could be the reason everything exists in the first place, only so you get the idea of shitting on my head

What's the last digit of pi?

no u

And nothing is everything, unmanifest.

thank you, this is the first time i hear from this, been looking for this and have not found it.

Ugh. Bite me.

The fact that time is infinite does not mean all things that could happen have already happened.

With an infinite number of monkeys and infinite number of typewriters, you won't get the works of Shakespeare, you'll get an infinite number of pieces of jibberish that aren't Shakespeare.

Yes it would.

'Hah'.

...okay? :^)

>there is a universe where i bite you

"Wrong."

Get off drugs. Stop drinking. Talk to people who are positive about life. Leave this cesspool and talk to people without using all the queer words these fags use.... im looking at you nig fag jews. Push yourself. Quit being complacent and lazy and angry over nothing. If you can post here you can get a job. If you can get a job you can get money. If you can quit living a delusional life... and be happy with 1 woman and a few friends and steady income. You can become rich and lazy like me when youre 40. It takes 10 to 20 years. But when you get there... youll love it. Nothing is fake or a simulation. Push back in a good way faggits

>What if higher beings collected simulations like we do videogames
>Everybody has their 'videogames'-collection on the shelves
>Our simulation would be called 'Quiznor 7 - Human Gold Edition'
>The simulations wouldn't have to be 1:1
>Bunch of mods for games
>shlong-mod where all have huge dicks
>Everybody plays the humans a bit different
>Funmaps where every person is you and you fight each other to the death
>Another one plays it very boring, he lets the protagonist sit afront of the computer all day and browse Cred Forums
>god damnit he could have at least activated the shlong-mod

I agree, also the computer program might assign values to variables, as we explore our simulation deeper and deeper. It would seem that in a simulation there are an infinite number of variables, and it would make sense that the program would not assign values to these variables until it absolutely had to. This would explain why some constants in physics don't make sense mathematically but are the correct values to sustain our reality.

No request for sauce? Well I guess I'll ask for some sozzz

she aint real, only simulet

Reroll

well... i'm out. was fun while it lasted anons, till next time

user make a good point

lol

Agreed