QUESTION Cred Forums !!

QUESTION Cred Forums !!
Are soldiers heroes?

Yes.

Sure

not all soldiers are heroes, but some heroes are soldiers.

> /thread

All men in uniform are heroes

>and they deserve blowjobs
>while in uniform

Some of them. Fighting presents a unique opportunity for heroism.
You're not a hero just because you served in the military, if that's what you're asking.

no, they're a bunch of tools.

Ill answer your question with a question.
Who are they saving?

This. Plus the whole hero thing is a matter of perspective, personally I think a hero is a person who saves lives and helps to fight for the common good, though the common good may vary from person to person. If you think about it, that's part of why we have wars. My hero is the guy who invented cheese, what a miracle worker that guy was.

Every ISIS goatfucker that a US soldier kills is one less suicide bomber at a charity event in the United States. Or one less asshole putting a bomb in a dumpster that kills you when you're just trying to get a fucking hot dog or something.

/thread

>Are soldiers heroes?
some are
some aren't
but being a soldier does not automatically make someone a hero
and quite often being a hero for one person or group makes you a villain for another person or group

no, unfortunately they are prostitutes for the powerful elite.
people who aren´t capable of developing some kind of ambition end up wearing a uniform.
usually pretty weak minded characters join the army and go to war against someone elses enemy.

if you disagree i´d advise you to do some research on world war one, only 100 years ago.

street meat will kill ya

That depends on what they are doing at the time and why.

Just to share this as well most vets I've met are top notch guys with hearts of gold. There are the shitty ones every now and then but there is always a bad apple in any bunch. Some may not be a "hero" per say but they're all pretty honorable dudes that at the very least put years of efforts and work towards helping their country out. I mean, I know vets good decent benefits and all but them doing that is a more kind hearted act than most people ever commit in their lifetime.

the only possible point of view that allows soldiers to be heros is a nationalistic one.

Hahaha you're one of those.

The US will collapse if they don't have an external enemy which they can rally against. Without one, they will lack the "we vs them" and people in the US will no longer be able to see that they belong to the same "we"; they might realize that everyone on the planet belong to the same "we" (we're all humans...) or they might panic and start to autocannibalize when they no longer can steal resources from others. Orwell describes this very well in 1984.

tl;dr if ISIS is destroyed, then a new enemy will be invented.

I was a Marine for four years, served in Special Operation, and I can wholeheartedly say I'm not a hero at all.

>BUT

Every single person who joins the military knows there might come a time when you don't make it home. Every single person in the military (who isn't a POG bitch and sits on base his entire career) knows how easy it is to get blown up by an IED or catch a sniper bullet at any given moment. But they all go and do their jobs anyway, and that's what makes them heroes.

Keep in mind there's plenty of people in the military who've never done shit, never seen combat, and get out and take credit for being a hero, and those suck, but the average citizen should still appreciate them for signing up and doing the job in the first place.

No they are soldiers
A heroic soldier is a hero

Now fuck off with ur shit

Btw yes they are heroes to the supporting side
They are cowards to the opposing
Whether they are attacking or defending it don't matter it is what it is
Heroes is a perspective
Soldiers are soldiers

Not really.

It's a job. A shitty job with no qualifications besides "Don't die when exercising." A job perfect for the desperate and the stupid.

Job responsibilities? Do whatever the guy that's older than you says, who does what the guy older than him says. That follows a long ass chain until you get to the top, where it's a vague possibility you're a cog in a machine that is actually promoting human welfare but it's much more likely that you're risking life and limb, sacrificing 2-4 years of your life to serve some kind of business interest.

>national enemies don't exist bro, it's all just elites playing with the little people
>dude weed lmao

you're kind of retarded if you think otherwise...

just read Hill's latest leaked emails about military intervention in Lybia. Literally listed in the email are the goals of intervention in another sovereign nation.

>oil
>gold
>presence in north Africa
>show of military power
>all of the above basically verbatim from the emails


Just wikileaks the emails lol. Who do you think got the gold and oil, who do you think was on the front lines risking their lives for it?

I'll give you a hint:
>it didn't go to the soldiers, who were on the front lines

I don't remember asking you for your fucking OPINION on what the US is doing or is going to do.

Guarantee your bitch ass has never been in the military.

Doesn't refute my point.

I don't remember giving any opinion either. The US have always had an external enemy and will always have one; currently it's ISIS, who will be next only the top 0.1% knows.

Do you think there's a single country on earth that DOESN'T pursue things that could benefit itself? No. No fucking shit we need oil. No fucking shit we need money. Duh. But do you wanna keep living in a country where you don't get your head cut off for not believing in Allah?

Of course you would think that every single piece of everything you said is stone cold fact.

This is true, its only heroic if ur defending against kebab

Yes the fuck it does. You've never been there so how could you possibly know? Every single job you could get in the civilian world exists in the military. Those jobs require training, skill, and intimate knowledge in the subject. So how the fuck could your statement be true?

Oh, and you have to go do that job while people are trying to kill you. So yea... nothing but idiots, right?

A soldier can be a hero, but also can be not a hero. The question ist what he did. Not everyone can be a hero.

Soldiers aren't heroes.
They're pawns. Sent to die.
They need to feel they're not worthless, that being sent out to die is a good idea.
"Heroes"
Lol.

Some are dipshits, many never do anything worthy of recognition., Others very much are.

Coming from someone who was in the army.

I mean dont get me wrong there are fucked people and allan snackbar isn't exactly my fucking cup of tea. But we are talking about soldiers right? Who... do the dirty work for the elite, and line their pockets from it.

I mean I see what you are getting at, simultaneously you seem not to want to believe that there are people benefiting and profiting from the stupidity of soldiers, not for "the greater good of the nation", but for themselves.

Not that guy, but that IS fact.

First it was the Indians. Then it was the French. Then it was the Dutch. Then it was the French AND the Indians. Then it was the British. Then it was the Mexicans. Then it was the South/North. Then it was the Blacks. Then it was the Oakies. Then it was the Germans. Then it was the Japanese. Then it was the Russians. Then it was the Koreans. Then it was the Vietnamese. Then it was the Russians again. Then it was the Somalians. Then it was the Czech. Then it was Yugoslavia. Now it's Arabs.

It won't take you that long time to check up on the american history, especially if you payed some attention in school.

not if they get caught

Neat. We're living in the most peaceful time that has ever existed. War predates governments. The fact that our government now exists means nothing about war.

You forgot some balkan countries and the sandniggers were in a couple of times before too

I'm not saying there are no job requirements to specialized positions WITHIN the military, just that the basic qualifications to become a soldier are "Don't have asthma and do what you're told." People that show exceptional talent get to exceptional or specialized positions, but that doesn't make them heroes, it makes them people who have jobs that they're stuck with until their time is served.

That's not heroic action. Sure, a soldier CAN do something heroic, and be a hero. You could even say that soldiers have a greater than average likelihood of performing acts of heroism (though I would argue that police and firefighters have a greater likelihood), but being a soldier is not heroic in and of itself.

I'm not saying there's not some oil company CEO who gets a big ass bonus because it's been easier to import his product ever since there's been an America military presence in whatever country he's importing from. But people get so wrapped up in that shit that they think it's all there is. We didn't get oil out of Iraq in 2003... Afghanistan doesn't have shit we need. Terrorist fuckbags need to be eradicated and that's what we're doing.

>you seem not to want to believe that there are people benefiting and profiting from the stupidity of soldiers, not for "the greater good of the nation", but for themselves.
>the country is run by kikes
Yeah, no shit. That doesn't make the enterprise of war an inherently dishonorable or stupid one. You're like lolbertarians who think that since the current government is shit, state action is inherently shit.

Just get your foot in the boot bro

You obviously know nothing about the ASVAB and how to enlist.

You don't "get to" do shit. You either qualify for the job you want before you ship out, or you don't. If you don't, you have to pick another one.

The basic qualifications to GO TO BOOT CAMP are pass the ASVAB, physical fitness tests, and don't have any major medical problems... yes. But I think you're forgetting about the fact that you have to GRADUATE from boot camp and any training your job requires after that. Do you really think you can't fail out of something and get sent somewhere else?

Well, all those entities either attacked americans or caused suffering. They deserved it. It's not rocket science.

US attacked and saved lives. It's not rocket science, but seems somehow to bewilder the enemies of the US, who try and twist it to means something different.

Some are. Most aren't.

good points all around boys, good points. Let me sleep on them.

Maybe it's not all fucking elitist assholes running other peoples' lives, but when you feel like you see it every. single. time. some conflict happens, you begin to question motives for becoming involved in these conflicts in the first place. Half the time we leave regions more fucked up than we found them. For a bit of oil, in the longrun?

I've taken the ASVAB. Navy - I scored a 94. Passing the ASVAB is easy if you can read.

And it fell into my original position: I was desperate. I'd finished my degree but couldn't find a job. Bills piling up, Navy gives me a call and says "We'll set you up with a sweet Information Warfare position for 4 years, run you through Officer training, then when you get out you'll have a bunch of money in the bank and can go for another degree."

And I'm like "Fuck it, it's that or Walmart."

Medical examination I was disqualified as a possible asthma risk based on my allergy history.

I never looked at it as doing a service for my country. I looked at it as a shitty under-contract job that may have paid off. In retrospect, I'm glad I was disqualified, because I have a pretty sweet job now.

...

Absolutely, whether they're blowing up and filling worthless sandniggers full of holes, or if they're delivering humanitarian aid to a people being genocided (like the Kurds or Yazidis)

Yes, we needed to attack Iraq and depose a genocidal maniac. Trump should be proud he supported the war in Iraq.

Wake the fuck up or pull your head out of your ass.

How super neato for you, champ.

You see it every single time because that's all the media reports on because they want ratings. They don't give a fuck what's true or not. And as far as leaving things more fucked up... maybe... war tends to fuck things up. But at least the bad guys are gone and the people are free to rebuild and not get stoned to death for showing an ankle.

USA attacked first in many of the cases, in a heap of cases they were even allies before the americans decided to backstab. I guess that entitles the other countries to attack as revenge.

pro tip: bin laden was a great friend of the bush family before all crap started, which it did because america decided they no longer were valuable and bin laden embraced fundamentalism as a result.

>Power vacuum
>New bad guys move in
>New war

>/Thread

Said by a Secretary of State of the United States

Saddam got to power because it benefitted american interests at the time; the people had their first democratic election and wanted someone else, then they had no democracy anymore.

Any military exists to fight bad guys. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Do you want to get blown up on your way to the grocery store, or would you rather have some Marines go to the country the bomber comes from and kill him and all his friends?

Depends on the soldier. Anyone who makes it a point to decry soldiers in general is a fucking moron.

They put their lives on the line,and have a harder life than the faggots behind the computer. Obviously there are some dickheads and monsters, but that doesn't go for all soldiers.

The majority of them just want to serve their country or make a living. The fact that they are prepared to kill for their country is enough to put them above the average person. They shouldn't be held responsible for their country's retarded actions either.

Seems super duper legit.

>I saw a quote on the internet so it's DEFINITELY true.

Okay trump "supported" them verbally. That doesn't mean shit if a billionaire didn't support them financially. Remember he thinks your stupid for paying your taxes. What pays for a standing army... taxes!!!
So pull YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!!!!

but the bad guys exist because the government harrasses other countries, without it, there would not be any need to defend against any baddies

So the only correct view?

he did say it lol.

>not everything you see on the internet is a lie either

>be me
>be in military
>job is in tech maintenance
>job has become 95% across the military a non-deployable job
>job is not glamorous
>last time I fired a weapon on military dime was 2008, but regularly go to range with bros
>be not an hero

I'm annoyed with the blanket use of hero these days as well. You can make the assertion that I signed up and that's more than most. Granted, I got more balls than most I had no idea what I was getting into and if I could do it again I'd rather go back and be more diligent in the civilian sector. I will say though I'd happily save any of your asses if given the legitimate opportunity. I'm not a hero, but I know I have it in me. Your mileage may vary, take it for what it's worth.

Oh, so we harassed Saddam Hussein and that's why he gassed thousands of Kurds? Nope.

We harassed the Taliban? Nope.

ISIS decided to recruit globally and enforce Sharia Law because the US is a big meanie? Nope.

Fuck are you talking about?

Fellow vet here. Solid statement.

Why was Saddam being a dick to his neighbors our problem?

Given that the Taliban and ISIS hate us because the US sticks its dick wherever it pleases, causes horrendous amounts of collateral damage and says "Your beliefs and culture are stupid," it's pretty understandable.

The CIA installed Hussein because the traditional ruling powers were not pliable enough to western interests. Why do you think the Iraqi army uses US made weapons?

The US is like the Alliance from Firefly. "They tell us how to think. They're meddlesome, and they haven't the right."

Depends

I never said that, what I said was that the people wanted a sensible leader but usa wanted saddam, so they ensured that he got to power. usa didn't harrass saddam, but they sure harrassed the people when they put such an ass-hat to power. the clean-up afterwards was not really heroic in the light of who's fault it was to begin with.

Because it's not ok to just let that happen? Is this rocket science to you?

And you realize that ISIS and the Taliban hate anyone who doesn't follow the Koran to the most extreme, right? You realize they're attacking EVERYWHERE GLOBALLY and NOT just the US, right? You might want to look into it a little bit and stop forming your opinion based off of what you see on Cred Forums and the popular opinion of your edgy faggot friends.

Oh here we go. It's always the super mysterious CIA.

Thing is they teach you how to be a hero because the single most important thing you leave basic training with is this:

You know exactly what you're made of.

Some people struggle with this expression, but think of it this way. Most people have their entire lives to figure out who they are and what they can do. The military robs you of this exciting experience and breaks it out of you over the course of a few months. You now know exactly what it is you need to do to be successful. Many vets learn this long before they are able to gain the motivation to get there. So for all of you civilians, enjoy your ability to be a piece of shit, many of us severely envy your privilege.

If you'd just read something else than the cencored books from high school...

Hahaha so I should be like you and read anything written by any schmuck from his mom's basement that happens to agree with my preconceived bias and rebellious-edgy-faggot rejection of authority? Nah, I'm fine.

More like an heroes sent out to die to defend the interests of the elite

If they're so fundamentally aware of what they need to do to succeed, why are so many vets useless once they leave the service?

Not even just the combat vets that become homeless or the injured vets that abuse their medication. Not every vet that comes out unscathed then goes on to be a rousing success.

Not to sound like a fucking recruiting poster.... but you truly do learn how to be a stellar citizen after you leave the military. Granted, PTSD fucks a lot of people up. But the values and work ethic you learn make you unstoppable in the job market after you EAS.

Because different people are different.... is this hard for you to understand?

I was more thinking along the line of "history and media from other, neutral countries", but you are free to read whatever you wish. Winnie the Pooh is quite nice.

Your reading comprehension sucks. I said many vets learn what they need to do before they learn the motivation to get there. Dont let them fool you for your charity, they know what they should be doing, they choose to not.

The fact that it comes from a "neutral country" doesn't make it true or correct. Every media outlet is controlled by whoever owns it/sponsors it blah blah blah.

It's a challenge to your position. You implied a statistical difference in the levels of success and self-awareness amongst former soldiers as a result of the training and experience.

But evidence doesn't support that outlook. Former soldiers have just as much likelihood of being pieces of shit as any civilian.

I'm not the one who posted that comment. And you might wanna read the actual dude's reply above. Dipshit.

No. They are white knights fighting for a cause they don't even understand.

>other groups don't have their own interests and just want to be left alone to jerk off
>everything is big bad America's fault

That is true, but a neutral country with no monetary interest in the conflict is far more likely to report something closer to the truth. Amnesty is a good ålace to start searching for fairly neutral information, their only interest is to save lives and end suffering. Although, I guess Pooh is closer to what is good for you.

Don't tell me what to do!

So you're telling me you spend all your time reading history and media from countries that are neutral in any conflict the US is involved in... You're fucking full of shit and just trying to get everyone to believe YOUR opinion is the correct one.

>countries that are neutral in any conflict the US is involved in
Countries and organizations that don't exist, since the US is the global hegemon and has its fingers in pretty much every pie.

Eh untrue, there are countries that resist our extradition laws very successfully because they don't have any faith in our vengeful/righteous due process. they exist, they just aren't big enough voices to drown out the noise we make globally.

No, not all my time; I happen to live in a country which is not investing in either side (at least not officially), where the press have the freedom to write whatever they want, so I only need to read a few newspapers to comapre who sais what.

You're the one who originally said neutral countries.... and now all the sudden neutral countries don't exist....

Yeah I'm not saying that every country is in line behind America so much as no country is neutral to America. Like us or not, they have to deal with us in some capacity.

Therefore the idea of anyone being neutral to an American effort is ridiculous on its face. They want us to succeed or fail for the sake of whatever interests they have.

Third guy.

Yep. Every newspaper has the entire global situation completely nailed down when it comes to big ol' America. Fuck outta here.

Did you know that companies in jewrope trusts Russian and Chinese companies far more than they trust American ones? Russians and Chinese are honest with how they screw you over while Americans just suddenly stabs you in the back.

Eastern Europe, I'd expect that. Western Europe is our bitch.

Additionally, the US fed is making it a part of the official school curriculum to teach 9/11 as a terrorist attack. Mind you, the full-scale investigation purposed to once-and-for-all disprove all questionable evidence stating otherwise has not happened. This is becoming fact for us without actually first becoming a fact in general. We are hardly the beacon for truthful information. We haven't even stopped putting fluoride in our water yet. We haven't even accepted the fact that added sugar makes you fat. we haven't even accepted the fact that industrialized beef production makes more methane and consume more water than anything else in the world. Its not because it isnt true, its because admitting any of the above isnt profitable

No, they take orders. They can't be blamed for what they do or praised for it either.

Medals are for first losers

Can't have it both ways.

I didn't say everyone, but if you compare a few local ones with the american online ones, then you start to notice that they often cover it decently andit, unlike american ones, they don't hesitate to give the opposing side's point of view of the story.

wiredly enough i was giving this alot of thought today, and to me no not really, at least not anymore. I would say without any favoritism that alot of the Iraqi/Syrian soldiers are, men who arent fighting because their career option were bad. Those men fight because they have to fight, or because they believe in a real cause (to free the country). I dont believe that any western soldier is a hero, they arent fighting for freedom, they fight for a paycheck, hell they get time to go home (not often but still time off), how many syrian soldiers do you think get "time off".

TLDR: western soldiers are just mislead young men who chose to bury their morality for a paycheck and a title.

Just because the western jewropean companies are bitches to american companies does not mean that they trust their american "collegues", it just means that they play along because they have to.

obviously there would still be without the USA but that aint a justification for creating problems, the truth is the US is the bad guy no two ways, they have condemned more people both foreign and domestic than any other country by a long shot. We;ve just been brought up in it, desensitized to it all, so long as we dont see we dont care, but one day its gonna come crashing down, whether its a dirty bomb by ISIS (or what ever group is next) or an uprising from the people. America wont last any long than 200 years.

>We haven't even stopped putting fluoride in our water yet.
Most other countries never started, they put it to the tooth paste instead

are state workers?
you seem like the type of person to be pissed off at the state employee on the other side of the phone but say you love cops
idk where you stand on vets
we're all human only some of us are better than each other based on bullshit human laws

>All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

No, they go off to invade foreign lands for oil and to spread western ideals. They deserve exactly what they get. If some douchebags were rolling through my town and shot half my family and blew up my house you better believe I would plant some IEDs