Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with...

>little baby orcs in orc cradles

Martin confirmed for never reading LotR

Mordor is a religion of peace
>ImWithAragorn

> I won't open the fighting pits.
> I WON'T OPEN THE FIGHTING PITS.
> Okay, let's open the fighting pits.

What a shit ruler. Westeros is doomed.

still, martin gets around the issue by making dumb characters with no policies fail, but doesn't have any characters with actual policies to succeed

You mean the 5th book where all of Dany's enemies are literally more cartoonish than orcs? (I'm serious, she actually at one point is facing an army of slaves on stilts).

Martin is a hack. His series is going to have a fairy tale tier ending with Dany and Jon defeating the Others and getting married while Tyrion makes a couple witty jokes.

B-b-but he kills of characters!!!! Yeah mostly minor characters who do not have PoV's. Only PoV characters I remember dying are Ned and Cat.

Any ruler that thinks he or she has the divine right to rule is a shit ruler

>tolkein wrote so much about his world it borders the worst case of autism ever observed
>"lol, im not gonna read all that! it wasnt in the movies, so who cares lmao"

This guy.

That's the Uruk-hai, they're different from orcs.

Tolkien couldn't make up his mind about the origin of the orcs.
Mud and slime and brought to life by the magic of melkor, or descended from the east elves who ran away when one of the Vala manifested himself and were captured and corrupted by melkor and some other shit that right now I don't really remember.

>autism about meaningless details nobody cares about
>characters still boil down to Good King Dude, Badass Archer Sidekick, Grumpy Dwarf, Wise Wizard, and Resourceful Relatable Weakling

>Sunset found her...

t. someone who never read Tolkien

t. Someone that watched the movies and never read the books

...

Savage

Someone post the poop passage already

Here you go

Why is any of that relevant? Why try to jam your own sense of reality into a fantasy story?

You nerds act like Tolkien is some literature god.

he's just wrote fanrasy novels in his spare time and for his kids.
His books are nothing more than garbage entertainment.

t. buthurt hobbitfags

Well right, that's been the trouble with western civilization since the Greeks tried to bring order to it through universal truth & universal law, while the east has been around twice as long, but spent it mired in the birds nest of thinking of life and law in a million shades of gray. There is no absolute truth, and universal law is rarely ever a good fit. But it does outpace the alternative.

There never is a clear cut absolute success. Greek & western culture that it spawned entire claim to fame is its attempt to declare a less nuanced, black & white, quick & dirty approach to thought & rule of law. It's more efficient, but it doesn't reflect reality. Viewing the western approach from a gods-eye view of greater reality is the entire point of the story.

The Others are not necessarily evil. All they have done so far is protect their territory.

He was a Rosicrucian and a mason I believe

You do realize you only think these characters are archetypes is because Tolkien wrote them, right?

You aren't that stupid?

>implying apples are oranges and any if that matters

That's some Grade A who gives a fuck, right there.

So was my grandpa. Drinking-based social media for oldfags to network in the pre-innernet era. Big damn skippy deal.

Just stating the facts.
People who say that Tolkien wrote for kids, that his characters are flat and nothing more than cliches, are usually the ones that never bothered to read one of his books. Because if they did, they would very well know they're just spewing bullshit.
That or they're just shitposting, who knows.

Implying going to Vietnam and making a sport out of spraying a bunch of gook farmers in their huts with napalm and lead from a helicopter would have given him the experience Tolkien had
>implying it would have made him a better author than studying the history of western civilization
>Bc what works fir one author works for everyone always, and results in the same fucking end product and that's really what we want, more of the same and no differing approaches to anything ever.

Pure unthinking shit.

Have you seen the 'Martin is a hack' comments followed by justification of tv only things in this thread?

>He thinks Tolkien created those cookie cutter character archetypes.

Are you really that stupid?

>Implying going to Vietnam and making a sport out of spraying a bunch of gook farmers in their huts with napalm and lead from a helicopter would have given him the experience Tolkien had

At the very least he would have lost some weight.

Literally the only reason you think of elves as tall ethereal pointy eared faggots is because of him

I think it was sort of meant to be ambiguous. It parallels to mythology and religion on certain things that we can't for sure say what the origin is, like angels or demons. Or even the two versions of how God made man.

Tolkien wrote an entire mythology. 200 years after the nuclear apocalypse some wasteland kid will find some collection of his works and make it into a religion. He doesn't dabble in the small details, he doesn't delve into the cynicism of picking the flaws in everything. LotR is an idealistic work, and that is FAR FAR FAR harder to pull off than a bitter "everything sucks and everyone sucks" story.
GRRM isn't a bad writer by any means, I enjoyed reading some of ASOIAF, but his criticism is retarded. ASOIAF isn't really comparable to LotR beyond having swords and magic and Sean Bean.

>everyone must be focused on the same details you do

Why didn't he create several working conlangs and genealogies for every character?

The Others might not be evil, not much more than humans or the creatures of fire.
We just don't know almost anything about them with the exception of some incursions, so they're scary to human beings.
But I bet show will wipe any complexity and make them evil because they reasons

>Presuming he knows how I think.
>Moving goalposts.
>And being wrong to boot.

Don't know about the others, but I did read Martin's books. I enjoyed them, but Tolkien is objectively on a whole different writing level.
It would be really unfair to compare the two, yet Martin does it constantly and it backfires spectacularly.

Because he's a hypocritical hack
>muh realism
>also the guys in the north that held off the southern invasion speak the southern language as do the barbarians even further north

>t-that's t-t-totally not how I think
>GET OUT OF MY HEAD user!

lol shutup nerd

Eh, I'm not complaining, I like the obscurity.

n-no you

If I recall correctly in the Silmarillion it says that the orcs reproduce in the same way as the children of Iluvatar.

>Tolkien's worst mistake was bringing back Gandalf!
>Brings back Jon Snow, a character far more important in his story than Gandalf was in LOTR

>Tolkien just made it a black and white story about killing evil orcs
>Makes a black and white story about killing evil white walkers

Biggest hack of all time?

>anonymous chickenhawk unironically defends the vietnam war

>the tolkein model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes.
You mean literally exactly what GRRM did with the Others and their zombie horde?

>>Makes a black and white story about killing evil white walkers
>completely ignores the rest of the story concerning the conflicts between humans
those are some impressive mental gymnastics friend

>Brings back Jon Snow, a character far more important in his story than Gandalf was in LOTR

How do you know this when you haven't read the book? Check mate.

>evil white walkers
The jury is still out

If the TV show hadn't started with The Good King Bean, a hundred million TV viewers who never read the books wouldn't still be watching it through all the shit hoping to someday get back to good and honorable rule and restore order and prosperity to the land.

Without the bean setting the precedent, few would give enough of a fuck about swords and dragons and dirty savages to watch through all this.

oohhhhh i get it now
You're retarded. Thanks for clearing that up

GRRM and ASOIAF is the most mean spirited smartass pseudo-subversive shit ever, GRRM basically only wrote it so he could feel like the most clever guy ever and he is zero percent in it for the fans, then he goes around saying over and over that's it's the most realistic shit ever and just letting people know that torture and rape and murder and betrayal are super real and they happen to everyone all the time and DUDE NO THAT'S WHAT IT'S LIKE.

What a whiny loser. Finish your books. We all know you won't though because writing a happy ending wouldn't make you feel cool and smart.

Tolkien is mythology for England
George is soap opera pulp

the white walkers who want to KILL LITERALLY EVERYTHING are a bit more important than whatever shitty nonsense plot is taking place in the south
Whoever is King is literally irrelevant when the Others show up and it is astounding to me that GRRM thinks nobody would care about the Others in this world.
Keep in mind that the Others expressed purpose is literally to exterminate humans.

The rest of the story doesn't matter.

Actually I know from Cred Forums the books have ended with Jon Snow dying, and that this fat fuck will be dead before he publishes the next one. The TV version will be the only one any of us ever know.

>what we watch for 90% of the show doesn't matter

>He doesn't dabble in the small details

Someone never read the simarillion...

Don't worry user, no one else could get through it either. Is like reading the Bible starting on p 1. No one in a thousand years has actually bothered reading all that shit.

Nah. It doesn't backfire.

Martin's story is actually better, he just fails in the delivery.

Tolkien was a language guy, and that's fine. But it doesn't put him above criticism for being just as much as a hack when it comes to the actual story as George Lucas, which he was.

And all the stupid petty shit about WW1 and Vietnam people post.

>The rest of the story doesn't matter.
Pic related
>it is astounding to me that GRRM thinks nobody would care about the Others in this world.
What the fuck are you talking about? He never said nobody should care about the White Walkers, dumbass.

I like Tolkein a million times more than GRRM so if I even get a PASSING FEELING that he is either looking down on Tolkien or even thinking they're slightly equal I hate him so much more. Why does he think he has to keep bringing up Tolkein and saying he's an evolved version of him? Finish your faggot books.

Nice concession.

Are you always such a sore loser?

someone post Tolkien's reply to this FAST

Dude, a fucking character literally spells it out for.

>When dead men come hunting in the night, do you think it matters who sits the Iron Throne?

Here's a fucking hint: Season 8 will be all about the White Walkers, not about King's Landing.

The entire nature of the Night's Watch is a pretty serviceable allegory for the military of modern "First world" nations: a mix of criminals, poor, and high-minded "nobles" looking at both the humanity that exists beyond "the Wall," while simultaneously trying to warn the people they protect of the uncompromising horrors that render all their petty internal squabbles and intrigues irrelevant.

Its like you can see the point, its just that your autism can't comprehend it.

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien

No it isn't. Most kings were dumb as rocks but still managed to rule fine. You had to be incredibly bad to fuck up ruling.

>replies with basically nothing but n-no YOURE WRONG
>gets upset when someone is tired of his shit
holy fuck your tears are delicious
Im aware that people are supposed to care about the walkers in the books otherwise GRRM wouldnt put them in, but the way he keeps them away from center stage is very irratating.
Like who the fuck would be like
>hmmm so there these rumors of godlike ice monsters leading an army of the dead to destroy our entire species of the north
>Ive got this army lying around doing nothing so i might as well send them to conquer the irrelevant and useless dragonstone fortress
>yeah someone else will take care of this imminent apocalyptic foe
I know that this isnt how he portrays it but it is essentially whats happening.
GRRM is realizing that he created the tolkeinesque horde he tried so hard to avoid and now he is coming up with every mind bendingly frustrating solution possible to avoid dealing with it.

Underrated

>The entire nature of the Night's Watch is a pretty serviceable allegory for the military of modern "First world" nations: a mix of criminals, poor, and high-minded "nobles"
Oh look, it's someone else falling for liberal media memes.

>durr people dying and families being destroyed is no biggie because something worse is coming
Your argument is completely asinine. Stop embarrassing yourself.

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine?

None of that stuff is interesting. That's why Tolkein was good.

I hope the tv series ends with the white walkers just pouring over the wall and picking up every fucking human across the land and destroying everyone, rendering the entire story up to hat point meaningless and then not stopping and going on to lay waste to everything and each other and hack themselves to pieces until there's only one last walker left standing, who then reaches the southern tip of westeros, sits on the shore, and looks out across the water and just lets out a little sigh.

That'd be fucking perfect.

That's why I said a mixture. They're all in there. So was I.

>you will never write your own fictional mythology in over a lifetime in a futile attempt to replace/give your own country a mythology like other countries have, filled with your attempts in reconciling the sometimes contradicting philosophies you have, to the point giant nerds will argue over it for the next century
Why even live

so you would rather they continue fighting among themselves to prevent their own family from being destroyed, just to make it easier for their own, and literally everyone elses families to be destroyed?

Most do not believe in magic and the supernatural beyond vague appeals to the gods. That's why they're not concerned. Notice it's only the people who have seen these things firsthand who are taking the situation seriously: namely, the Night's Watch and wildling clans.

Nah dude it's important BECAUSE it's boring. It's so realistic, reality isn't supposed to be fun, bro, because life is stupid and sucks. Sunset found her squatting in the grass...

>T-t-that's totally what I meant! I totally didn't claim like every other liberal that the military is just poor people being lead by rich officers! That's why I completely failed to mention the biggest component of recruits, the middle class

If it's fallible, it's certainly not having any meaningful criticism leveled against it by this fat faggot

But they all still know the stories of the long night so I think its a stretch to say they wouldnt even be curious

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
I ask this every thread and no one can meet the challenge: post an excerpt from GRRM's books about tax policy that is at least as detailed as one of his descriptions of a character's breakfast or shitting sequence

The fuck are you even trying to say? The original argument was that Martin is a hypocrite because he supposedly wrote a black-and-white good vs evil story, but the only purely evil group in the series is the Others, and they're still on the periphery of the story.

Just give up
GRRM is a hack and all of his fanboys are idiots

You're an idiot. The high-minded "nobles" are the people looking for purpose and championing ideals from all possible walks of life. You don't have to be rich for that shit to matter to you.

Nah the 'you're wrong' was just a bit of snark on the end. The point was that you're a fallacious dipshit who name-calls when he loses arguments.

>Completely missing the reason the Others are in the story.

>durr it doesn't matter if anyone struggles because everyone eventually dies

This. GRRM is just trying to elevate himself above Tolkein and act like he's the smartest shit in the world, like he always does. He's just trying to push this bullshit meme that he's wise to something that Tolkein wasn't, while accidentally betraying the fundamental problem with his 'unfinishable' books, that it's a mish mash of pessimistic 'realistic' political moments that feel no ligation to have unified purpose.

>muh realism

I almost forgot he chose wyverns instead of dragons because some he thought some completely arbitrary characteristic was unrealistic. I bet his 'research' consists of wikipedia surfing to learn factoids and random trivia.

right
and that doesnt make any fucking sense. Martin's cynicism is so deep rooted in his writing that he is making characters act against their own self interest just so he can milk this shit out longer.
Martin claims to be more historically realistic than Tolkein, and in a lot of ways thats true but in this way is far far far from it. When the Mongols showed up threatening death and destruction in Europe local nobles would quit their squabbling and unite to defend their castles.
When the Crusaders appeared in the holy land Muslim factions would quit their civil wars to drive them out.
When Napoleon marched across europe a massive alliance was formed to stop him, despite massive tensions between each member.
The list could go on and on. It just does not make sense that nobody would focus on the walkers, unless you concede that GRRM is just as much of a hack as the writers he criticizes, and that in the end he is just another failed Tolkein imitator.

Notice how GRRM doesn't ever listen to people and he just solo spouts off some shit about how smart he is. There is no 'conversation' with GRRM, he just says something himself and moves along, without listening to the interviewer or world's response.

$.02

Not sure where those numbers are coming from, but having actually been in as an enlisted turd for 12 years, and not giving a fuck about your libtard/conservitard idiocy, they may be talking about officers there, I don't know, but enlistment has been trending toward catastrophically low, and enlistment numbers have indeed traditionally been met overwhelmingly from poorfags from the impoverished south. Any recruiter will tell you that's the promised land, and they don't even need to. I'd estimate roughly 2/3 of everyone I served with long enough to know from boot on through my 12 years had that background, it's not a secret anyone was trying to keep.

But back to both your oversimplified partisan squabbling...

>Europe local nobles would quit their squabbling and unite to defend their castles.
>When the Crusaders appeared in the holy land Muslim factions would quit their civil wars to drive them out.
>When Napoleon marched across europe a massive alliance was formed to stop him, despite massive tensions between each member.
You're still arguing with the premise that everyone would believe millennia old legendary monsters are on their doorstep when none of them have personally seen evidence of it. So it's more akin to expecting wars on Earth to stop so that we can fight the grey aliens that totally exist and are invading as we speak.

No dude you don't get it everyone is retarded and people actually do shit like tolerate a well-hated murderous usurper killing their ancient High Lord's thousand year dynasty and ruling tyrannically with impunity. Prisoners of war who genuinely love their captors actually think they will be considered a Prince for conquering the castle he grew up in and killing all the people in it, and when he's captured his Lord father abandons him and treats them like shit and laughs when he finds out he's been castrated. It's just so real bro.

The ancient others are muslims, who seek only to kill or convert or both, every last motherfucking one of you, and come in overwhelming numbers and cannot be stopped by any real understood physical means.

why wouldnt they?
They're peasants. This just shows how little Martin understands about the medieval world he is trying to emulate.
Superstition and religion was deeply deeply important to a peasants life.
There was a fucking peasant revolt in Russia because the church decided you had to use three fingers to cross yourself instead of two.
Its easy to think peasants wouldnt care because its hard to not project our modern understanding of religion onto them, but it just doesnt fit.

>Martin's story is actually better
Can't agree with that.
He tries so hard to focus on muh realism and he even fails to give any sort of explanation on how his vague 'you have long summers and then you have even longer winters' would actually work in his world. Because it wouldn't. But that's not the point, because who the fuck cares? Just as who the fuck cares about tax policy?
His story brings nothing new to the table. It's enjoyable, yes, but it's little more than a medieval soap opera. He doesn't even know where the hell he wants to go with it.

>Tolkien was a language guy, and that's fine. But it doesn't put him above criticism for being just as much as a hack when it comes to the actual story as George Lucas
See, that's exactly how I know you didn't read any of his books. Sure as hell you didn't read the Silmarillion. But I'm really curious about what makes you think that Tolkien is a hack

>Literally fucking says "recruits"
>N-n-n-n-no man, they totally mean officers!
>I don't care what the evidence says, I have my anecdotes

But thank you for posting EVEN MORE BULLSHIT, the Army is at the smallest it's been in 70 years, and guys who would have been in a second in 2005 are being turned away today. And AGAIN, the biggest segment of the military are MIDDLE CLASS Southerners you fucking liar. Fucking hell, I'm done dealing with you anecdotal motherfuckers.

* meant >Literally fucking says "ENLISTED recruits"

>Because it wouldn't.
Why not?

You realize what a middle class Southerner is literally anywhere else in the country, right? Look at the disparity between the cost of living there versus other places and maybe you'll have the balls to admit you're literally making the "opposing argument's" points for them, that is, if you were even accurately presenting the opposing argument instead of a woefully poorly considered strawman.

That's how bad you suck at this. You're making points for your own strawman.

>handles disagrreement this well
lol jesus dude, get ahold of yourself and start your own thread no one cares about instead of shitting up this one

A Feast for Crows.

Tolkien is unconcerned with those things, the world of the Lord of the Rings acts like a mythology of its own, with contradicting, missing, or glossed over details. Hence why heroic and antagonistic archetypes exist, and the familiar good vs evil story, as they are typical in many legends in the world.

Note, the primary books: the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are pretty much written from the view point of the Hobbits, hence the Red Book of Westmarch, with shit added like stuff about pipeweed and what happens to Aragorn and the rest of the Fellowship who did no go to the West after the War of the Ring tacked on at the end by Sam's descendants.

The other books like the Silmarillion and the Children of Hurin act like a collection of legends and papers detailing the great stories of heroes that happened in Middle-Earth. Indeed, If I am remembering this correctly, I think the Silmarillion is actually the Elves' account of the history of Middle-Earth and translated/given to some human.

That is why there is no tax policies, no great details on genocide, or shit detailing about floods and famine. Remember "details", as Tolkien mentions famines, plagues, and the fates of kingdoms and peoples in appendices but in a typical "mythical fashion" like if you read the Bible you'll come across the whole "x beget y, y beget z" thing or "Yahweh and the Jews were defeated because their enemies had iron chariots". It's kinda like that simple and direct, adds some depth but not too much allowing the reader to wonder about it, and Tolkien was concerned with the mystery of his legendarium, as he believes that no matter how much the reader knows, there must always be mystery and wonder that remains. As such that is why Tom Bombadil exists, and why some people debate if Elrond's wife got raped by orcs.

The problem with this position is that there is nothing in his mythos to rival the big bad evil of Tolkien mythos (Sauron and company).

It's a whole other scale of warfare - there is petty squabbling among nobles but that's not the focus of the story: resisting evil is.

Is there a worse fan base out there than lotr?

They're already starving now and it's summer.
They would all be dead by the time the winter ends.
But like I said, who cares.

I cant read.
Is this just saying Tolkien was a hack?

No fucking shit.

>why wouldnt they?
>They're peasants.
The peasants aren't the ones waging war. Try to pay attention to the argument that you're engaged in.

yeah
the fans of ASOIAF

>Aren't Tolkien orcs made of dirt and evil magic or some shit?
That's just a concession they made for the movies.

Orcs are very much fucking each other.

The Uruk Hai is the results of orcs fucking mountain (wo)men.

Yes.
Asoiaf

>peasants arent the ones waging war
Sure, but they're definitely the ones fighting it

this is Cred Forums so i'm not going to argue about /lit/ bullshit, but whats funny about this sentiment is most people like seasons 1 and 2 the best because there were clear character motivations and because Ned Stark was a genuinely good person.
GOT goes downhill so fucking bad in the rest, especially 5-6.

He would've been better off writing about a genuinely good person, like Ned or perhaps his son, who tries to rule over the kingdom only to show that ruling "honorably" doesn't mean ruling well.
The fact is, most people (women) who watch the show do it for Danery and Jon which barely intertwine with the rest.
Does anybody actually care what's happening in the mainland, are you rooting for anyone anymore? When you don't care about motivations and you only watch for the events and gore, you get season 5 and 6. Twist upon twist and 20 different minor plots that we cut to for like 1-2 minutes.

Another little mystery that has stayed with me from LotR is the weird hill people that get mentioned in RotK. Were they ever explained in any way?

epic bantz

Woses?

I fucking love this threads.

What is an equator? What is rotation on an axis? What is distance from the sun?

You mean the Drúedain?

Just because he's angry doesn't mean he's not right, he's angry because people are spreading intentionally biased misinformation to support the socially destructive lie that only the poor die for only the rich.

This is a common misconception. Most armies did not consist of armed peasantry. And further hurts GRRM's argument about realism.

>complaining about realism in a world built on magic

>You realize what a middle class Southerner is literally anywhere else in the country, right?
You wothless lying motherfucker. They are middle class based on a NATIONAL income quintile breakdown, NOTHING to do with regional cost of living. Anecdotes are bad enough, but you've now resorted to pure lies. This is the last post you get.

heh, funny you mention that I really did try and fail reading through the Silmarillion.
I meant little details more in the sense of what GURM mentioned though, taxes and famine and "systematic genocide" and whatnot.

The battles are being fought by lordlings and their bannermen. The peasants are just being slaughtered, plundered, and raped.

I think so. It's been a very long time since I read them. They're the ones that lead the Rohirrim(I think?) through secret paths to Gondor's aid, or something like that.

Also this, but I think he came up with the 'it's magic' explanation for that.
Nice cop out, Martin.

Is this why it takes this bastard 7-8 years to churn out a book?

He's sitting around fapping to Tolkien philosophy?

The only person making that assertion was him.

The thing is we wouldn't be if Martin wouldn't keep patting himself on the back about how realistic the thing he writes are.

Good, because you're a delusional fuck arguing against your own fucking echo.

the planet has a different orbital path then ours does.

Find a good book on English or American literature about Tolkien's time. I dare any of you to find any mention of Tolkien.

Tolkien AND Martin are both shit

Wow. Go ahead and just wildly belittle Martin while holding Tolkien on some magic pedestal.

What part of Tolkien's stories aren't hackneyed? What part 'brings something new to the table' you trite bastard?

>hurr durr you haven't read ANYTHING or you'd HAVE to agree with me waa waa.

You evidently haven't read any of Song of Ice and Fire if you think its a soap opera.

Exactly. An orbit such as Planet X in pic related would explain winters longer than summers (although vastly exaggerated).

>from Storm of Swords
daily reminder that GRUM has no idea what he's doing

I mean, come on guys, we're not stupid here are we? You do realize it's better to be smart than stupid, right? Like, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but please tell me you're not this STUPID.

>Ruling is hard.
Nah. Go read up on Charles I, or Louis XVI, or Nicholas II. These weren't poor unfortunate guys who made one mistake and got killed for it. These are guys who made a long series of mistakes for year after year, ignored plenty of advice on how they could have fixed everything, and even still usually needed some big catastrophe to finally bring them down.

Most rulers of history were completely mediocre men who nevertheless managed to muddle through.

But the armies aren't peasantry in asoiaf. They're soldiers and mercenary bands.

I believe you're mistaken. The keys GRRM story is what he doesn't tell us.

ASOIAF is a war between the old gods. The acts of the humans are incidental.

>ASOIAF is just one big Cosmic Horror Story
If only he fucking finishes his books so we can get to that point then.

Actually he, a veteran of twelve years, made one point explaining that the military is not a meat grinder of poor people run by the rich, then you contested it with ridiculously wrong misinformation and he corrected you every time and got angrier and angrier as you don't respect the importance of the truth that the military is largely middle class. You did this for no reason and were wrong the entire time.

Oh wait, one of you was the veteran. Anyways it's super disrespectful to lie that the military is a bunch of abused poor people.

>the military is a bunch of abused poor people.
Why do you lie about what he said when we can all read the comment for ourselves?>a mix of criminals, poor, and high-minded "nobles"

Jesus, did I struck a nerve?
I have read them, like I said before, and I enjoyed them. But they suffer from a lack of passion and creativity partly due to Martin's excessive focus on politics and realism. I like politics in my fantasy books, the Dune series is my absolute favorite, but not when it feels as cold as it does in Asoiaf.

(Also, just saying,
Martin complains about Gandalf being brought back by the Vala and then he proceeds to have Cat brough back by R'hllor.
Martin complains about the big, bad orcs and then he writes about the big, bad Others.
I mean, yeah sure, that's new.)

Tolkien though, he built a whole Universe that stands on his own. He created languages with detailed rules on grammar and syntax, he wrote beautiful mythology where evil and good aren't so black and white like Martin seems to love pretending they are, and he forever changed the way people see races such as elves, dwarves, orcs and shit. He paved the way for every fantasy writes that came after him. And not only that, hell, D&D wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Tolkien. But make no mistake, neither would Asoiaf.

And that's not to say I put him on a pedestal while I shit on Martin. I like Martin's work, but like I said, it would be unfair to compare the two. It's Martin who keeps doing that.

Again, this was the initial post, . Notice the use of the word "mixture" that the guy you're defending chose to ignore at every possible opportunity. Nothing in that post says that the high-minded "nobles" had to absolutely, incontrovertibly be rich officers. Only he made that assertion.

There's at least two vets opposing the guy who thinks he has an argument.

>"Why isn't fiction reality?"

T. A fat retard who is not long for this world

Can't argue the point.

Dirty Santa Claus had better be working when he isn't jacking off in the mirror.

*that stands on its own
*every fantasy writers
God, I hate writing on my phone.

he's not criticizing Tolken for the presence of magic, but for the whole black-and-white portrayal of how the world works

>baby orcs in their orc cradles

these are my favorite types of threads, t b h
seeing holier-than-thou tolkien shitlords and muh realism grrm fuckheads shit all over each other is amusing as fuck

Are you dumb

There is more to fiction than just magic, not that martin can argue against it because he uses it himself

The lack of a 'grey'ness to Tolkien's world is as much fiction as magic is

So here it is again

>"Why isn't fiction reality?"

T. Fat retard who is not long for this world

>I write things better and more realistic than Tolkien
>Tyrion is arguably my best character. What should I do with him for the next two books?
>I know, I will completely exclude him from my 4th book, and then in the 5th book, I'll have him do literally nothing and start jousting on a pig with some retard dwarf girl. That is what good writers do

ASOIAF is an okay book series, there are definitely good moments, but my real problem with GRRM is how full of himself he is, and how people put him on this pedestal as this amazing author, when his work is pleb as shit. He's not Tolkien, he created nothing near near as revolutionary or fascinating as Middle Earth, and his work is pure entertainment. It doesn't attempt anything new.

Well spoken.

rated under post

they never teach anyone anything anymore about grammar and sentence structure. The most egregious part of this paragraph is that he mentions her name at the end of it instead of the beginning.

He wastes every opportunity to show human struggle and contrast with the ambiguous aesthetics of nature by blithely describing diarrhea in the most juvenile, and possibly fetishistic way possible.

It's a confused mess. What is the goal here? Turn himself on and hope the audience is into this kind of coprophelia? Describe the physical struggle of one of his main characters in a dire moment? Be 'realistic' by moving beyond the tradition of ignoring the fact that people have biological unpleasantness in their lives? It fails on every level possible except as poorly written fetish erotica.

WW1 was far less justified than the Vietnam War

at least the Vietnam War had precedent and a theory behind it (Truman Doctrine, Korean War)

WW1 was retarded and pointless on literally every level even the military tactics being used were implemented by completely ignoring the last 50 years of warfare and technology.

There was almost no justification at all either every country besides the US (which entered late preventing a German victory) was crushed simply by participating.

:insert it aint me reference here:

I never realized there was so much beef between them honestly. I enjoy both.

books 4 and 5 are dogshit

I have no idea why anyone defends them or anything in the TV series past season 3/4

>He doesn't like Feast for Crows

>still no word on Winds

no one sane likes it

it was the beginning of his "take 6 years to write 8000 pages of fucking nothing" trend

Why can he not put the name at the end of the sentence?

And why do you make grammar comments and then write this awful sentence.
>He wastes every opportunity to show human struggle and contrast with the ambiguous aesthetics of nature by blithely describing diarrhea in the most juvenile, and possibly fetishistic way possible.

>the armies aren't peasantry in asoiaf
they pretty much are tbf

I like it. Mind you I didn't wait for it.

Riverlands stuff was great.

>reads a passage where a character gets graphically ill
>immediately equates it to "fetish erotica"
Man Cred Forums has fucked you up in a big way.

english isn't your first language, is it?

You have some piss poor reading comprehension.

But winters and summers very a great deal in length. Some winters last 10 years while others only one.

you realize GRRM is a huge pervert right?

It's not even a secret

there is no evidence for him being a pervert.

The man does like incest. like a lot.

>people in fantasy don't poop
Ok pal

There was a lot of inbreeding in the past.

Sentences and proper nouns start with capital letters, you shit filled nincompoop.

holy shit

>everyone thinks the big payoff is going to be the whitewalker war
>it's going to be AryaxJon

>But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs?

That's because no one gives a shit.
GRRM thinks asking and answering retarded questions makes him a good writer.
It doesn't.

But guys, it's okay to fall in love and wanna fuck the person you were closest to growing up and thought of as a sibling, you're only cousins.

It's pretty obvious the guy doesn't give a fuck. IIRC he's already working on another series he wrote that no one cares about that HBO plans on selling tagged "By GRRM, the creator of Game of Thromes." He's not going to finish the series, let's just hope whoever finishes it off does a decent job.

>That's because no one gives a shit.
Considering how popular ASOIAF had become, I'm pretty sure lots of people do give a shit

you're confusing the rules of written language with grammar

i don't have to capitalize or use punctuation when i speak in real life, yet my words can be grammatically correct or fail

failure often leads to confusion which is the only reason grammar is important - english is a creole language which is extremely simple compared to it's mother germanic roots but also includes a lot of romantic loan words

grammar isn't as important in english but sentence form and structure like commas and punctuation and capitalization conventions are meant to help the reader further in comprehension

it's not always needed when describing things in a simple manner (like online text)

a novel should have an editor and should focus more on bad grammar than misspellings (which a computer program can catch) or proper sentence form

Martin writes so badly and so incomprehensibly I doubt an editor could have picked apart every instance and make every paragraph work

this example of Denys shitting by a river is a fantastic example of an editor who didn't care, probably didn't want to read it, and the whole this is meandering and confusing even beyond the fucked up grammar

feminist fat fuck slacker

how was her shitting by a river confusing?

They still don't give a shit. They want tetas and death. Everything else is background noise.

To be honest fampai I'd forgive GURM for never finishing his tits&dragons story (already got bored with it) if only he wrote another novel about Haviland Tuf. GURM should generally write more sci-fi, Sandkings was also great

Is that what you think they're in for? Tax policy?
No, they're in for tits and gore.
What GRRM is asking is actually "what if Aragorn was fucking his sister?" and "what if orcs were born of incestuous rape?".

he is also a big fan of cuckolding

(You)

You're communicating using written language right now. The rules apply. The guy is autistic for giving a shit about it on Cred Forums, but don't try to argue that you're right.

IMO it's not so much boring as much as him writing too many threads together that he doesn't know how to tie off and most of them are barely relevant to the story except through asspulls.

I'm not confusing anything. I'm just making you look stupid.

It's not my fault you chose to insult my intelligence rather than answer my question.

And I like how you decided not to use any periods or capitals in this post. Your sentences are still fucking awful however.

>what if Aragorn was fucking his sister
w-was he?

Tyrion ruling King's Landing had effective policy.

what is the purpose behind the paragraph?

is it meant to:

titilate? why? that's a failure

showcase human struggle or failure? not really, it's way too unfocused and there are no descriptions of pain or endurance beyond superficial.

If it were about a character enduring pain or suffering then it would be more focused on that instead of just the fetish act of having diarrhea

is it about nature, reality, or a contrast of aesthetics? Everything described is vague and puts a lot of work on the reader who has to imagine the 'river' pretty much by themselves. Is it a muddy river? Is it clear and beautiful until Deny's shits it up and poisons the village down the road who is none the wiser until they try to cook or clean with their once reliable source of fresh water?

The paragraph has no clear purpose behind it other than a man with a weird fetish who is trying to disguise his sexual obsessions with something that might be confused as having a different purpose.

Adorable, Martin actually thinks he discusses deep and thought-provoking topics in his books.

Everything he wrote in Asoiaf on economics is common sense.

Stupid quote.

It shows he hasn't read any of the background books. Unfinished Tales has quite a few stories where similar details (inheritance laws, chain of commands in armies, how armies functioned etc.) are explained.

i get how you're trying to win imaginary points on the internet

but you clearly dont comprehend the difference between grammar and sentence form and convention

theyre not the same thing

you sound far less intelligent than you believe you sound

>people still haven't posted that quote by Tolkien BTFOing Martin 50 years before he even wrote his shitty attack

>respond to everyone faggot

>>>/reddit/

den post it, dweeeeeeb

>ASOIAF is all about fucking and incest
I see we got showfag here.

Newfag spotted. This shits been posted for years now and I seldom visit this board

I don't think so.
He married Arwen, and she was an elf.
Aragorn was no elf.

You have no idea do you? Why don't you actually try asking what the context is before acting like that is the entire chapter.

Do you even know when this happens. Do you know why this is happening? Do you know what the significance is? I'll give you a clue, its something cut from the show.

The purpose is too show that Dany got sick and almost died. People often shit their guts out when they get very sick.

Are you actually autistic?

...

I can't find it

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine?

What was roberts tax policy? did he maintain a standing army? did the targarians? what did he do in times of flood and famine? Jesus, if you're going to take the high ground over someone you actually need a leg to stand on, fucking hell he's not just a hack, he's actually stupid.

It shows Dany is a retarded child.
She's unable to connect her having the shits to the water she's drinking.

There's not really anything intrinsically wrong with incest. The chance of mutation from first cousins is actually quite low and you have to keep inbreeding repeatedly to get really bad odds. All of Europe's major nobility was frequently intermarried at the distance of cousins.

HOWEVER, it is worth noting that we, as humans, actually secrete a special chemical which programs us to not be attracted to girls we grew up in the same household with. So it would actually be more natural to fuck your sister if you never knew her than to fuck a girl who was 'like a sister' - no biological link but you grew up together in the same house.

...no it wouldn't. That'd be like a year of summer / winter while it spins near the sun, followed by eight years of planetary death before falling back into the solar system's orbit again.

The appeal of the books is realism, and yes, that includes fucking your sister because medieval kings often did it. The appeal are the characters that aren't clear cut goodies or baddies, and saving the world is difficult because internal politics keep fucking shit up.

>But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine?
Neither does GRRM, though. Anything political that doesn't directly relate to the military or the security of the realm is pretty absent in ASOIAF. I have no idea what the general consensus is of any of the kings (besides the mad one) because it's not mentioned. I have no idea about their tax policies or whether or not they maintained a standing army either.

He criticizes Tolkein for a lack of information but has the same pitfall in what must be 10 times the amount of pages.

>>I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing.

>that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper.
And again: history of Gondor shows that it isn't always true.

This?

>I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanistic religion; while Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing.

>I'm white, a beta, 19 and I live in an irrelevant flyover state

Stay contrarian pal

>americans actually think orbit is the reason behind seasons

The politics in GoT consist of power plays between characters high up in the hierarchy. When I first started watching it I thought I would get something which delved a little deeper in stuff like BSG, but nope.

After 4 seasons I was done with constant mindless battles. The story is so bland.

should i have to in order to point out the grammatical failure of it as a paragraph written in english for a commercial novel?

when the opposite is easy to showcase, this sentence is from the yellow sign:

"Night fell and the hours dragged on, but still we murmured to each other of the King and the Pallid Mask, and midnight sounded from the misty spires in the fog-wrapped city. We spoke of Hastur and of Cassilda, while outside the fog rolled against the blank window-panes as the cloud waves roll and break on the shores of Hali."

notice how you don't need to know shit about what all these nouns mean or the situation in order to understand it - that's good writing.

Take a look at Martin's paragraph about shit. it's confusing even when it's obvious what is happening

>The appeal of the books is realism

So that's where the snow demons and the dragons fit in.

>Robert's Tax Policy
Shit, he ran up a major debt on parties because he wouldn't tax his nobles
>Did he maintain a standing army
No, he used levies
>Targs
No, they used levies
>Flood/famine
This is probably actually answered somewhere but I dunno it

>medieval kings often did it.
In ancient Egypt yes, in Greece and Rome too. But not medieval kings.

Thank you lads

>what if Arwen and Aragorn were actually brother and sister, but the only way for them to defeat Sauron was to have a 3 way with Gollum

That would be a classic Gurm stroy

youtube.com/watch?v=sPOR4UaoMJ0

It's an allegory dealing with the artists inner demons. That's it. There is neither less nor more than he ever wrote. All this "fan theory" and "fan fiction" shit that people come up with is just them projecting their own inner self onto a pre made template. So shut up and go write a book.

Seems Targaryens don't have that since plenty fell in love with their siblings.

>fuck your sister if you never knew her than to fuck a girl who was 'like a sister'

Or an aunt you never knew over "like a sister". Jonaerys confirmed.

Once I hit Post I instantly knew that some fag is going to rag on the definition of 'realism'. Ok, let me fix it for the stupid.
>the appeak of the books is realistic portrayal of society and people in a fantasy kingdom that undergoes resurgence of magical powers and dragons
Better?

You're just imagining things. I was just being a petty shit in response to you being a petty shit. I want to wind you up mate, and boy is it working.

I don't clearly anything, other than in your triggered imagination.

tfw I have a better understanding of how to write sentences than you. Can't stand it, can you?

women dont, prove me wrong fag

As opposed to Martin's revolutionary tax policy, which is gold mines that have lasted for 8000 years.

>The appeal of the books is realism, and yes, that includes fucking your sister because medieval kings often did it.
The TRUE danger of GOT. People realize LOTR is nothing but fantasy, but they think the Fat Man's drivel is "realistic."

>I OWN YOU
don't care
>NO, uh, I mean, Obviously I don't care either, uh so that means I OWN YOU AGAIN! HAHAHAHAA!
You are a dense fucker, man. Glad yer havin fun, i guess

Not really. People don't seem to give a shit about the resurgence of magical powers and dragons. Most don't even believe it.

To debunk some of his other dumb claims.

>hurr all Tolkien characters are good or evil
Who are Feanor, Isildur, Túrin, Denethor, Saruman etc.

>hurr but he doesn't explain how armies work
"The armies of Rohan are almost exclusively cavalry, divided into irregular units termed éoreds. Rohan's foot-men armies were more of a very well trained militia called upon in times of war, the militia of Rohan wielded wooden shields of all sizes and used four weapons: longswords, short bows, axes, and longspears. The actual standing infantry army was relatively small with the professional career limited to the royal bodyguard of Edoras. Royal Guard of Rohan of Edoras were the elite soldiers of Rohan and fought on foot as well as on their horses, they have heavy plate-armour and wield large round wooden shields, their weapons were mostly the longspears which were used for thrusting or throwing at their enemies, they also carried longswords for close combat in the event that they lost their spear. Their powerful cavalry (the Rohirrim) could cut through almost any infantry lines and cavalry units and turn the tide of battle. The warriors of Rohan used the same weapons as their footmen counterparts when on horseback"

>hurr what about orcs
"though the entire force of Sauron was extinguished by the end of the War of the Ring, groups of orcs continue to dwell in the Misty Mountains. However, after Durin VII reclaimed Khazad-dûm, the Dwarves hounded the orcs to near extinction."

>Feanor
Feanor objectively and literally did NOTHING wrong.

Nothing in GoT is remotely realistic. GRRM doesn't even have a bachelors in History much less a Masters or a PHD. He's just as much a historian as he is a professional philologist.

His degree is solely in journalism and anyone buying the claims of "realism" is just as gullible as the people who thought the "Blair Witch Project" was real found footage. You could probably write a series of books longer than the ASOIAF series itself detailing how unrealistic the books are and how tenuous GRRM's grasp on history is.

Yes because every single sentence in a 1000 page novel has to be perfect. You know its cherry picked because its funny right.

>"Night fell and the hours dragged on, but still we murmured to each other of the King and the Pallid Mask, and midnight sounded from the misty spires in the fog-wrapped city. We spoke of Hastur and of Cassilda, while outside the fog rolled against the blank window-panes as the cloud waves roll and break on the shores of Hali.
>This is an example of good writing
It is? Is this where you get your penchant for unnecessarily long sentences?

That's ignoring all the fantasy elements btw

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
>Did he maintain a standing army?
>What did he do in times of flood and famine?
interesting questions but not relevant to the story, plus Aragorn is supposed to be mr perfect so his policies and actions would be good and the people would rally behind him at all times, he's basically king jesus

>And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
no, he just left them fall back into the shadows where they usually go when they don't have a master to rally them

>Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy
and that's a criticism? i don't want ugly modernist dogshit philosophies and morality in medieval themed fiction

reminds me of fucking kingdom of heaven where monks who've devoted their entire lives and sacrificed their earthly desires and possessions in the name of their religion and they're atheistic nihilists who laugh at and mock religion

What the fuck does history have to do with a made-up world with its own made-up rules and its own made-up history?

>supporting kinslayers

I agree.
It was all Mandos's fault

GRRM uses real history as an argument why Tolkien's writing is bad, friendo.

This is really getting to you isn't it?

>Nothing in GoT is remotely realistic.
>Nothing
When will people learn to stop saying the word nothing when they don't mean nothing?

People obey the laws of gravity. Only women have babies. Horses can be eaten for meat. All these are realistic things that are in Game of Thrones.

I swear, would it kill people to learn basic English?

So?

Shut up, nerd.

People claim it is "realistic"

like "everyone was incestuous in the past"

>What is hyperbole?
Don't talk about English if you can't grasp a concept taught to 9 year old children.

Teler please go.

>the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple
Henry of Navarre?

It's just a figure of speech, autist

So pointing out his lack of relevant education is a valid point.

But in general I agree with you.

I think it's funny how he talks about what war really is and what is it like when he pussied the fuck out of it and Tolkien actually took part in it.
Pottery.

Robert and Aerys Targaeryan are Aragorn and Sauron, and westeros is the result of what would happen if you had a king who didnt know anything about ruling a country uproot an evil emperor

Don't talk about English until you've got the hand of basic sentence structure.

well duh

everyone was fucking his own sister, everyone was castrating everyone, stronk womyn didn't need no man

hey i get it, it's not impossible, all of these things have happened a few times throughout history but in /got/ this is everyday life.

Or a more way to describe it is "exaggeration". You know, that thing you're not supposed to do when you want someone to take you seriously.

For example: you are literally brainless. Now try to figure out if this is hyperbole or I actually believe this!

The answer may surprise you.

I'm not talking about English, I'm talking about how shit you are at English.

Shit is a metaphor by the way.

You know that's an appeal to authority fallacy right? He doesn't need a degree in history.

>when you want someone to take you seriously

Hyperbole is a colloquial device you use when you're a normal person arguing and not a total autist

That's an incorrect use of the word "literally"

I'm not the same user. I'm the user that's really good at English.

Hey buddy, I think something's burning

He does when he's arguing his world is the more historically accurate. The moment he set himself up as an authority, his lack of credentials became pertinent.

Looks like someone forgot their period!

He is right. Tax and politics are the real fun. You can see that in GoT.

It's not an appeal to authority because there are plenty of facts written in history books based off of primary sources that run counter to just about every claim Gurm makes about the middle ages.

You could read these books or even internet articles if you felt like it, you just choose not to since you want to defend GRRM's "realism" claims that he only ever brings up because he knows it sells books.

That has always been the problem with Martin for me. He has some pretty interesting storylines and characters, but for every one of the there are about 50 that are retarded caricatures.

Just bought the Similarion and the Children of Hurin. What am I in for?

Beause LOTR was focused on something deeper: ideals, courage, friendship and sacrifice while facing overwhelming odds. A triumph of the human (and all the other races) spirit.

All GoT is is edgy fodder that wasnt good enough to be a film.

Also
>Tyrion= Tyron
>Denerys=Daniel or Daniella or just Danny
>Jon= John
A fantasy writer with such poor imagination for names shouldnt even be allowed to speak ill of LoTR

So you are arguing that Middle Earth is the more realistic of the two fake fantasy story worlds?

see That's another one.

I'm not the one on trial bucko

just hit him and drop the ring you fucking pussy elf!

Irrelevant. Also that's a fallacy fallacy.

I'm the user who actually knows what the fuck he's talking about. You must be the other guy.

The highest quality of autism known to man

You are now, Bucko!

A beautiful journey.
You should read the Children of Hurin first, otherwise the Silmarillion will spoil it for you.

Pretty good reading. Get Unfinished Tales if you enjoyed Silmarillion.

I'm the user that understands what commas are for.

You must be the guy who thinks he's tough shit.

You aren't wrong because you committed some logical fallacy

You are wrong because you are empirically incorrect. Asoiaf can be shown to be empirically incorrect in regards to its claims of historical accuracy.

WTF I hate this board now

I never said you accused me of a fallacy.

This time you've also got a goalpost shift.

You fucking nerds deserve each other.

I love watching these autistic fights from the side

Makes me feel a tiny little bit better about myself

I honestly have no idea what you're even babbling about anymore.

Cool

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
GRRM never explicitly discusses tax policy in his books.
>Did he maintain a standing army?
He mentions this, but does not explain the ramifications.
>What did he do in times of flood and famine?
Only rudimentary discussion, never in any detail.

>implying you're not one of the participants
nice try

fugg you got me :-DD

Saying that Old George needs a degree in history is a appeal to authority fallacy.
Then saying that it isn't because of his mistakes is a variant of a fallacy fallacy.

It doesn't matter whether he's right or wrong, its still a appeal to authority fallacy.

Nice pics, you got more?

Yeah

...

Thanks bb

lol, tolkien tried to write a sequel to LOTR but after a few chapters decided it undermined the whole story and it was depressing for him to continue writing it.

he could have written an edgy political game of kangs story but he had too much integrity.

fuck fat incest shart man, his writing is trash, doesn't even compare to tolkien.

Were these pictures made manually, or is there a software out there that goes through a video file and set up screens of it like that?

Explain what is realistic about GoT then

use examples

Those sets look so incredibly good

Fucking hell man I need to download the extended editions
>tfw no internet

makes me realise Two towers is the weaker of the three

Why?

Both are writers of their times, really.

Tolkien lived in an era where people had actual values, where women were caring and responsible mothers, where men cared for their country and worked for something greater than themselves.

GRRM is a man of our times, the times of postmodernism and nihilism, where science has laid light on the absurdity of our lives and where people are encouraged to live for themselves first, and for their society second. Everyone is a pervert, everyone is an edgy fuck, and those who aren't are seen as naive or even immature.

>there are people who still don't get that Dany is GRRM's Sauron

exactly

Ok real talk now: any of you nerds liked Nightfall in Middle-Earth by Blind Guardian?

TIME FATE OF US ALL
LIES DEEP IN THE DARK
WHEN TIME STANDS STILL
AT THE IRON HILLS

What about metalkino?
youtube.com/watch?v=cvKRbi2ovDY

Man, Christopher Lee was the greatest dude

>Why
>Exactly
Huh?

Martin's world is black and white, too.
>everyone acts in self-interest
>everyone chooses 1 of 3 general motivations
>characters and results are predictable
realism isn't inherently better than fantasy, modern people just enjoy indulging in realism more. they like seeing people they think they're supposed to believe are great acting human

NOLDOR,
BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS
TEARS UNNUMBERED
YOU WILL SHED AND DWELL IN PAIN

>>everyone acts in self-interest
Wrong.

these screens are amazing, they really capture the imagination

if you looked at these screens before watching the movie you would expect a lot more from the movie.

It's true. No one does things that don't align with their motivations except for people that don't have a choice, like peasants dragged into war

Not the guy you're responding to: never the less, kys thnx