How did he lost to a untrained girl?

hate it when people say this

he was allowed to travel around space with an army behind him doing as he pleases. you dont get that kind of authority if youre just some weak numale as people here say.

he started off powerful, such as stopping that bullet coming for him without even looking, but then mid-flick they just decided to make a joke out of him

awful flick

He was supposed to lose and she wasn't untrained.

-He had less practice in melee combat than her. Rey is shown needing to fight nearly every day just to survive, while Kylo never had a real challenge, there were no jedi for him to fight and his enemies mostly crumpled in fear due to his being accompanied by legions of stormtroopers.

-He got hit with a wookie bowcaster and was bleeding profusely

-He was in emotional turmoil, having just killed his own father

-Rey gave in to the dark side and channeled it for more focused strength

Honestly, pretty stupid question all around OP, you should have done your homework before embarrassing yourself like this.

wow, nu-male shitposting, incredible that disney still has little fuck-fanboys

Here

m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/rey-is-obi-wan-kenobis-granddaughter_b_8911656

It came out about the same time that Daniel Craig's cameo was leaked that the voice is a mix of Alec Guinness and Ewan McGregor, similar to the scene in Two Towers when Aragorn and company meet "Gandalf" in Fangorn.

>I'm so thin-skinned and beta I get triggered by fantasy movies for children
Amazing.

...

Because he was a lanky gigantic faggot with a limp dick. I'm surprised his name wasn't Lenny. A toddler could beat the shit out of that inbred ratboy.

Mary Sue! Mary Sue! Pretty, pretty, pretty Mary Sue! Uh ha my Mary, my Mary Sue-oooo

He has never fought an actual opponent before, his sabre has just been used to cut down unarmed prisoners and as a status symbol. He also had a fuck off great wound in his side, plus Finn got a lucky hit on him. She has spent her whole life fighting more skilled opponents than her in hand to hand combat and it's pretty clear she's some sort of force prodigy or has had training as a child. It's not a difficult movie to follow.

Wasn't he a knight Of Ren? Didn't they kill all the Jedi students? I'm pretty sure he's seen action

>Rey is shown needing to fight nearly every day just to survive
No she isn't. She has a bo staff and lives in Madmaxland, but she's never presented with a threat.

>Kylo never had a real challenge, there were no jedi for him to fight
He was trained by Luke Skywalker, he fought with Luke Skywalker.

Luke. Skywalker.

>-He got hit with a wookie bowcaster and was bleeding profusely
Which makes no sense seeing as he easily did a 360 and stopped a blaster at the beginning of the film.

>He was in emotional turmoil, having just killed his own father
The entire point of killing his father was to ease the turmoil. He was calm and collected during and after killing him.

>Rey gave in to the dark side and channeled it for more focused strength
I genuinely hope this is true.

Because the writers didn't know how to set up a good conflict.

That was Obi-Wan talking in Rey's vision, dumbass.

stop watching movies nigger

He was blasted in the gut by Chewbacca's Nigger Exterminator 2000. Literally the whole point of him getting shot is that he wouldn't be OP as fuck fighting those two dummies.

Seriously why didn't people realize this right away? Did it really needed to be spelled out EVEN MORE?

this is Cred Forums after all, where everyone's an unintelligent 19 year old

Yeah not an argument. Seeing as he earlier disabled Rey with just a wave of his hand knocking her out completely.

That was a poor way to excuse him for losing though. The dipshit kids who don't know what the fuck they're doing shouldn't win against the bad guy in their first encounter.

How did he get hit by a bowcaster? The first thing Luke did to learn the Force was block blaster shots, and Kylo straight up force freezes(?) a bolt in the opening scene.

It's a shit movie with no answers to it's shitty question.

Or maybe the Knights ARE the Jedi students.

All the Jedi killed by order 66 died of natural causes.

>Darth Vader killed your father
>The Knights of Ren killed the Jedi Padawans

Gettin' real sick of you shit, Benjamin Keno'frio

>Which makes no sense seeing as he easily did a 360 and stopped a blaster at the beginning of the film.
A blast from a bowcaster has been shown as strong enough to send targets flying, so it does make sense. Still fucking stupid though.

>The entire point of killing his father was to ease the turmoil. He was calm and collected during and after killing him.
You have no idea what you're saying.

But the bad guy is also a dipshit kid. Snoke very clearly says Kylo needs to finish his training.

He's going to come back and be a bigger badass.

Even if there was a proper explanation, it's still an idiotic way to make a film.

Kylo has been severely diminished as the main enemy. There's no one for Rey to rise up against or train for. Luke actually had a reason to hone his skills under Yoda - what does Rey have?

It was a dumb solution kinda shoehorned in, and executed kinda poorly. But I guess it wasn't dumb enough for all the mouth breathers who literally need the characters describing what's happening at the moment to understand a movie. See Wasn't paying attention? From just killing his dad maybe?

There's a difference in one stray bolt and 6-7 Clones utilizing a pincer formation.

Autism Kills

Not to mentioned they trusted the clones completely after fighting with them for three years. When the time came they were off guard.

>I have defeated you last time, remember? And I've only gotten stronger since then, due to all the training I did with Luke Skywalker!
>I have also become more powerful since our last encounter, due to all the training I did with Supreme Leader Snoke! I won't lose this time!
Literally anime.

a lot of them are underage

>badass
kill yourself faggot

>He was blasted in the gut by Chewbacca's Nigger Exterminator 2000

Yet he managed to catch them even though they were running in the snow. Then he decided to hit the fucking wound and engage in a sword fight with them instead of breaking their fucking necks or something.

I assumed it was the natural Balance of the the force coming into play. Since there was finally an outlet for the light side it shown through Rey and fucked him up.

sure it was..it was the palpatine.

This. It's exactly the sort of twist that JJ would setup.

TFA does have a scene where it spells out exactly what's happening though. When it makes the father reveal it treats the audience like a bunch of retards.

They even had McGregor repeat the first steps line from IV retard.

Because the Force has Awakened you idiot. It's in the title of the film.

He's the only Sith they have. He's strong vs. regular enemies, and Smoke wanted to shape him into a powerful Dark Jedi.

Perhaps he wasn't focused from it being moments after he killed his father, and freezing a stray blaster bolt from Chewbacca he didn't know was there...from *cough* high ground...was too much. But none of that matters because you won't accept any reason since you're just upset you romanticized the Kylo Ren character and he turned out to be a bitch.

Ah, ok. You're memeing. I see. It's not that funny of a meme though. You won't get a lot of milage out of it.

he's trolling you user

Kylo Ren...the reason why you're so butthurt about him and or Rey is because he reminds you of yourself, and not in the ironic meme way with the nihilistic sense of humor, he's what you would actually be like if your escapist fantasies of being a dark jedi were made reality.

You're not actually the big strong badass you pretend you are, and you don't get to kill all your bullies with a lightsaber. you're an impotent, insecure piece of shit prone to flying off the handle who gets his ass beaten by a girl.

They're just mimicing the original trilogy. First one, the big bad gets blindsided after killing the old mentor and the good guys barely manage to win.

Then in the second movie the good guys are going to fight evil again and think they have the advantage but then the big bad is going to rape them at full force.

You first

>engage in a sword fight with them instead of breaking their fucking necks or something.

He's clearly going easy on Rey at a point as well, he tries to fucking recruit her mid saberduel before she gains an upperhand, he could have murdered her easily but was obviously testing the waters.

Hmmm, interesting. Suddenly makes me think

>mimicing
kill yourself retard

Wow dude, I guess you're right. Why didn't I see this all along? /thread! Game over man, game over!

>How did he lost to a untrained girl?

The script called for him to lose

how Rey knew that Jedi could read minds??

how she learn it?

the foooooorce, I know, but you need training to focus and use the force

you can see Ezra in rebels when he try to use mind control and he fail because he is learning to use it

even having basic command of the force makes him unique amongst the normies in the army, that doesn't mean he's actually powerful compared to other force users.

>midflick

Well no. He's only a joke when up against Mary Sue and after he gets shot.

And why did he waste his time and energy with Finn if he was so badly wounded?
How was Finn even able to keep up even though he got his ass whooped by TR-8R in a matter of seconds earlier in the movie?

>Huffington post

It make sense. The upper echelons of the first order all act like kids in a cult, Hux for example is basically a rich kid son of an imperial officer who's pissed because the republic took over and he lost it all. It's easy to believe that someone like Snoke coming in with a stack of cash and some knowledge of the dark side could brainwash and organise people like this to reestablish the empire. The Knights will be Kylo turning people to his side by showing them the things he's learnt and telling them they can have whatever they want as part of the order.

That's...exactly how it is.

It really makes me think that JJ Abrams is secretly one of the biggest assholes ever.

>You think the deathstar was the crown of a galactic empire? Lolnope a bunch of chucklefucks did it in their spare time
>Mock the target entire audience with Kylo Ren
>Undermine Luke Solo's jedi training
>Luke is a failure recluse
>Leia? She doesn't even remembe chewbacca
>Undermine Han Solo by making him a bad father and then killing him. Oh and Rey is a better pilot and better at fixing the MF in 5 minutes
>I hope you are ready for BLACKED
>Undermine the cast the real best action movie, the Raid
>Game of thrones Brienne, oh nope she's a weak point bitch. BFTO Got- Love JJ

I guess Finn is an actual career soldier after all.

But fuck it, it's dumb. The movie's dumb, the characters' motivations are dumb, everything is dumb.

He's only 2 generations removed from the chosen one. No untrained desert peasant should be able to beat him

Or maybe Kylo WAS suffering after getting hit with a weapon that blows stormtroopers away in one shot.

Because he's kind of into Rey, he didn't want to hurt her so he was pulling his punches. He was keeping her subdued when she went dark sayiiiiid and then he was like woah wtf

There's no excuse for any of the retarded shit that happened in this movie, give it up faggot.

Then we're back to the first question:

>why did he waste his time and energy with Finn if he was so badly wounded?

Yes, I'm the one who said that originally at Crylo is thirsty as fuck

SHUT UP! They're my fave source of news and cure events!

The rest is true but we have no indication that Kylo had little melee practice.

*current

The only truly retarded thing IMO was the whole "new, bigger Death Star" business. Oh, and Phasma. And everyone on the pirate planet seeing the destruction of Republic capital system in the sky. That was super-dumb.

>He was calm and collected

He was not. It's canon that he's horrified and weakened by killing Han. Literally in the script and in the acting.

>Rey is better at fixing the Millennium Falcon

When will you autists let this meme die? She boypassed the compressa because she knew about the modifications fatty alien put on the ship.

>Phasma being weak
>What are sequels

>huffington post

Plus rey and finn's characters and the lack of star wars aliens and luke being in hiding and chewie looking younger than in rotj and blah blah blah. The entired movie was garbage.

Because he was angry and he's an impulsive idiot who was out for blood instead of fighting rationally. And Finn didn't "keep up", Kylo was fucking with him and Finn managed to get in a lucky hit. Then Kylo ended the fight in one move right afterwards.

I didn't have problem with any of that. I liked Finn.

It didn't seem to stop him throwing rey 20 feet in the air

RAY IS DARK VADER

Then you're a fucking retard because his character made no sense at all

Why didn't Force users just constantly attempt to throw each other around in other fights? At some point you have to let it be.

I guess she was reading imperial logs crashed on jakku

It's my headcannon as well that she actually fixed up the Falcon but from a story telling standpoint it's reaching up to fill the plot hole. Should've just thrown in some hints she was a tinker.
>You thought I was a junk collector but lol nope I'm a master mechanic

Jew Jew's sci-fi movies always seem to have and F- in physics. Like the whole Enterprise falling to Earth scene in Into Darkness, which is just embarrassing, dumb and contrary to the Newton's laws of motion (also known as Newton's spoonfeeding on motion for babies), described almost three centuries ago.

>Because he was angry and he's an impulsive idiot who was out for blood instead of fighting rationally
>Kylo was fucking with him and Finn managed to get in a lucky hit.

So again, the wound excuse is bullshit...

Obi-wan force ghost.

The same way Luke didn't need a targeting computer to shoot the death star.

He's bad at being dark side.

He just killed his father and is fucked up by it

He got gutshot by a super powerful weapon. And no, just because he manages to get past it to keep fighting doesn't mean it stopped hurting

He toyed with Finn and Finn got in a lucky hit, which injured him more.

He didn't want to kill Rey and seemed more interested in testing her skills after she managed to beat him at the Force pull. Which is why he dueled her instead of throwing her around more with the Force.

Once again, he didn't want to kill Rey at the edge of the ravine. That gave her enough time to regroup.

The extent of all his injuries weakened him at the end of the fight.

Rey was fueled by the dark side, which the novelizations make clearer.

Rey was much more determined and in a more collected mental state.

It was all plenty explained. Just because you faggots don't like it doesn't mean it didn't make sense. I don't like it either but I'm also not an idiot and can see what's plain in front of me in a simple movie.

It's not like rey or finn had any way to defend themselves from that shit, every other fight was between trained force users except for luke vs vader in empire and we know vader was just testing luke in that fight.

Don't forget the DUDE BLOOD scene with the literally who stormtrooper at the beginning. It's such a pathetic pointless scene. I was recently watching Wrath of Khan and noticed that movie has a similar scene with the engineering kid getting blood on Kirk's jacket as he dies, and I realized how fucking awful the TFA scene was by comparison because in TFA the scene literally exists to show you THIS MOVIE IS SERIOUS GUYS THERE'S BLOOD IN IT.

because the other dueling force user usually is able to defend against it. Seeing as how Rey is a turbonoob, it shouldn't have been a problem. Even if Kylo got shot, he should have been able to wipe the floor with Rey just based on experience and intricate knowledge of the force.

Rey is a mary sue. Even the ever decreasing TFA supporters need to acknowledge this.

stop making stuff up moron

Are you an idiot? How does that stop the wound excuse? He could still fight, but he was severely weakened. That was still enough to mess around with Finn but not enough to get through that whole battle with Rey afterwards victorious. Fighting gets harder the longer it goes on.

They couldn't even get c3p0 right, what the fuck was with that dull finish?

>basic command

He showed unparalleled force techniques.
>mind torture
>halting blaster fire in mid air

He is clearly powerful period. The script just shat on him halfway through

Well, you have to actually know what to collect that costs money.

I wish more of the movie was set on Jakku. I mean, it's dumb that it is not-Tatooine, but it's a comfy setting.

because he's an emo faggot and was injured, in that order

>b..b.bbut rey is a girl and untrained
>and a mary sue
>did I mentione she's untrained?
>and a mary sue
>and an untrained girl!

you're wasting your time, it's been ten months and it still upsets them, nothing you say matters.

I think it's more that his fucked up mental state fucks with his abilities at certain points. Which isn't that surprising. We saw Kylo at his most powerful when he was at his most stable mental state at the start of the movie before everything went to shit and his family got involved.

>"Oh no, violence and killing is wrong, I'm a pacifist from now on! I think I'll desert!"
>kills a bunch of his fellow soldiers during his escape all the way to the secret base of the enemy
What did Finn mean by this?

not really, fucking junk yard camp, puppet bird, retard on giant animal robot thing that gives up his catch because rey says so, fuck jakku

He never said violence and killing is wrong. He just didn't want to kill unarmed civilians.

Junk yards are cool. The scenes where Ray explores the derelict star destroyer are the best in the movie. Really feel the scope of that thing.

When did he say he was going to become a pacifist?

Pretty much. Rey is a Mary Sue but Kylo losing does much more for Kylo's character than it does Rey. He's much more interesting than the villain that's just the obstacle the hero overcomes.

Now I just need to figure out how the fuck they plan to move forward with Rey, who has no tension in her plot. Kylo feels like more of a main character than her right now.

Don't try to explain it to him. He's already made up his mind about what happened in the movie and he'll deny the truth and complain about stupid shit like that instead of the movie's actual problems like

The more I think about it, the more "Rey falls to the Dark Side, Kylo redeems himself and then her, somehow" makes sense.

The shot of the crashed star destroyer was the only good thing, rey polishing her junk and potions guy was shit

killing father should bring him head deep in the darkside and so tap into his anger even more

>super powerful weapon
The mental gymnastics people need to do in order to explain this shit

>He toyed with Finn and Finn got in a lucky hit, which injured him more
"In my experience there is no such thing as luck" - Obi Wan Kenobi

>He didn't want to kill Rey and seemed more interested in testing her skills after she managed to beat him at the Force pull.

She (who just learned that jedi were real) managed to beat a sith in force pull. Are you trying to prove our point?

>Rey was fueled by the dark side, which the novelizations make clearer.
So we need to read the book to explain the shitty writing? I know somebody else who taped into the darkside, the dude who just killed his father.

Literally all of your points are extremely weak. I don't know why this is even a discussion at this point. Let it go user.

Given how powerful they've made her in everything and the only comparable character is Anakin, I'd be impressed if they actually went that route.

But it'll never happen.

Which is retarded since he's been indoctrinated since he was a toddler and they say he's never shown any issues before.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure bowcaster's fire pure energy while blasters have a physical/ballistic element to them...like a mini rail gun.

That would explain why Kylo could freeze-frame the blaster bolt but not the bowcaster shot.

>How does that stop the wound excuse? He could still fight, but he was severely weakened

They were running and he was able to catch up with them, then he hit his wound to give himself more strength. If the wound was that bad, they surely did a poor job at showing how crippling it was.
He had the opportunity to kill Finn in a matter of seconds, yet he chose to toy with him. How does that make sense if he was so badly wounded?

>That was still enough to mess around with Finn but not enough to get through that whole battle with Rey

How convenient...
Too bad he couldn't use the fucking force or something to quickly get rid of the weakest opponent so he could save his strengths for the bigger threat. But hey, I guess toying with a grunt was more important, especially when you're badly injured.

>Are you an idiot?

Please, keep defending this piece of trash like your life depends on it, you retard.

They only made her that powerful because we live in the era of pop feminism. If rey had been a guy he would have lost to kylo.

Well, some guy ITT claims that in the novel it's made even more apparent that she channels her anger in the Kylo fight. And the next movie is supposed to be "the dark one". So, we'll see I guess.

>TFA followed ANH closely as the could
>decides to take a page out of the phantom menace and have the hero defeat the villain

the new star wars trilogy will not have a villian equal to Darth Vader, Vader shit on Luke all the way until the 3rd movie which is why he was so threatening and imposing

meanwhile Kylo basically reversed the role, Rey had better become the villain

The exact opposite.

Blasters fire pure energy and bowcasters fire plasma with a ballistic element. Hence why the bow caster has so much kinetic force it sends people fucking flying.

>killing his father should bring him head deep in the dark side

But it didn't. Because Kylo loved his father and his death fucked with him. The whole damn point is that it didn't work and that'll probably inform his story moving forward.

There's no mental gymnastics. The weapon blew people across a fucking room multiple times. The whole point of showing it used that way was to set up it injuring Kylo so you knew the extent of his injury.

Finn wasn't a better fighter than Kylo and Kylo fucked with him. Watch the scene again.

She pulled the saber because the saber called to her and wants her. This was established earlier. Call it stupid, but there it is.

I thought her looking like a feral dog circling Kylo made it clear that she was tapping into the dark. Sorry you don't know how to watch movies. And again, Kylo was canon weakened by killing Han.

Get over it, it was explained whether you like it or not. Your arguments are the only weak ones because you're determined to hate this movie and whine about it. It was a shitty movie but this part still made sense to anyone who paid attention.

So take your own advice and let it go.

none of that makes it any less stupid

>She pulled the saber because the saber called to her and wants her. This was established earlier. Call it stupid, but there it is.
fucking retarded disney shit that does fit with the real star wars movies

Stupider than Anakin's arc in prequels? I seriously doubt that. Falling to Dark Side is a thing that happens often to force sensitives, it would be nice to see an arc that incorporates that in non-retarded way.

Han butt-fucked Vader in ANH. Luke never even went toe-to-toe with him until Empire post training.

>Huffington Post

And what did you actually expect when Disney bought Star Wars?

Fucking Christ this franchise has one of the most entitled fans out there.

...

YAAAAAASSSSSSS QUEEN SLAYYYYYYYYYYYY

I mean her channelling the dark side is still no excuse for her beating a guy who's learned from both luke and snoke, it's just girl power bullshit.

It's a fine excuse if she's naturally more talented with the Dark Side than Kylo is, plus the stuff about his wound and him not wanting to kill her initially still makes sense.

Yeah by doing the starship equivalent of a sucker punch while Vader was busy trying to stop Luke from destroying the empire's giant weapon that cost them assloads of moeny.

STOP BULLYING ME!!

It get stupider every time I see it.

>be one of the best fighter pilots to ever live
>destroyed a huge capital ship at the age of 8 or something
>fly a top of the line custom Imperial starfighter escorted by my best men
>my son tries to blow up a space station, long story
>I'm on his tail, the space battle rages around me, I keep the track of it using my navigation equipment and my force sense
>but then this guy on a pile of junk one-shots me
>I-it's not my fault! It was just unfair! Unfair!

This thread is cancer and you should feel bad for posting it

I really hoped they would connect them properly and not shit on everything that's come before. I know tfa made a lot of money but I really think that within 5 years they'll only be making the equivalent of the mcu or less. I'm not expecting rogue one to crack 800 million. I don't know what's entitled about that. Let it maintain it's internal consistency and the old people who actually have money will keep paying for it and the young retards will go along with whatever's popular anyway.

LoserAnon watching TFA Trailer: Epic keks, Kylo Ren is kino. I'm so gonna be him for Halloween. People will think i'm so badass. The world will notice how cool I am because I'm just like that character, i've just never shown the world!

LoserAnon watching TFA itself: Fuck this.*rage*, *Autism defense mode activate*. How could she beat someone whose trained sith master and and and freezes blasters and and and is super cool and and and and mary sue! she cant act! fuckin sjw disney gurl power! *Ironic splerg out like Kylo Ren character*

You don't know anything about star wars, that's not how the force works.

>that's not how the force works
maybe Kylo lost a bunch of midichlorians from that wound in his gut

they leaked out with the blood I guess

Luke "trained" for like two weeks on Dagobah, and none of that training involved fencing. All Obi-Wan told him was to "feel the force." Never gave him any training beyond the blaster helmet

If Rey was a Mary Sue, so was Luke

How did Vader lose to some kid who was never really trained to fight with a lightsaber (Kenobi has him do one exercise, and it's not really even in lightsaber combat but rather in seeing without seeing)?

How'd he even build a lightsaber? Kenobi and Yoda never taught him that.

Autism

He built the lightsaber based on designs left by Obi-Wan

But yeah, no training

Didn't stop him before.

Luke got his shit fucked up the first time he fought Vader, who was obviously fucking with him most of the time, and by the time he fought him again it had been a year. Luke had time to prepare himself and he was strong in the force. Rey kicked Ren's ass with literally nothing.

How did Luke go from bulleying womp rats in Tattoine glorified space scooters to the best space fighter pilot in the galaxy.

that'll do user

lose*

also an*

>Luke got his shit fucked up the first time he fought Vader, who was obviously fucking with him most of the time, and by the time he fought him again it had been a year. Luke had time to prepare himself and he was strong in the force. Rey kicked Ren's ass with literally nothing

You're assuming Luke had training because he fought Vader well, right? We're not shown that

Rey beats the shit out of three men on Jakku with her staff, and then pushes Finn's shit in

Why is it okay to assume Luke has had combat training but Rey hasn't? We're literally given an equal amount of evidence, possibly more with Rey

We only saw snippets from the trip to alderaan/ death star and his training on dagobah

It doesn't matter. What we have to go on is what's in the film. We can also assume Rey has had extensive fencing training before TFA begins if you want to make random assumptions

Who do you think trained rey? portions guy? Even if she was trained it wasn't in the force.

All I have to say is that she better be Palpatine's grand daughter or great-grand daughter or even Snoke's grand daughter. If she is just some jerk off's daughter from Rogue One I'm going to be pissed.

>Rey beats the shot out of three men on Jakku

That's only because woman stronk. Ridley is a skinny, noodle armed little girl.

Even if you want to assume that the only training Luke got was shown on screen he's physically extremely capable by that point.

>Even if she was trained
She was

You have seen TFA, right?

I don't know why you guys argue about these movies if you haven't seen them, and then say shit like "Luke was trained!" If Luke was trained, so was Rey, because we're given the exact same amount of evidence. That's how this works

Running through a swamp doesn't prepare you for fencing a Sith Lord

Try again

It's literally just kathleen kennedy fingering herself girl power shit, they don't care if it makes sense

luke could have been trained offscreen by yoda

rey could have been trained offscreen by potions guy

i see your point

>He built the lightsaber based on designs left by Obi-Wan

Not in the movies.

Plus, Vader says his training is complete when he sees the lightsaber he built, meaning building the lightsaber was a part of his training, but he's never trained to build or use a lightsaber.

Exactly, which is why Vader fucked around and eventually fucked Luke's shit up when they first fought.

>"Yoda would never use a lightsaber! He never even trained Luke to use one"
>so how did Luke learn to use a lightsaber
>"Yoda trained him! We didn't see all of his training!"

Sorry, dude, but there's a big gaping hole in your logic.

Luke goes to train with a jedi master and is shown flipping about, levitating rocks, balancing upside down and meditating to a point that he can see force visions and even with all that he was no where near ready to face vader, as yoda told him.

>>"Yoda would never use a lightsaber! He never even trained Luke to use one"
>>so how did Luke learn to use a lightsaber
I never said anything like that

>he's physically extremely capable
So is Rey. If anything, Rey is more physically capable than Luke was, and she was up against a weaker opponent who also was suffering a gaping wound from a bowcaster blast (and those things do massive damage, as the movie establishes).

You can't even say "Vader didn't want to kill Luke" because it's clear Kylo didn't want to kill Rey, either: he makes the same "join me" offer.

Pretty much, if an untrained Luke can beat Vader, an untrained Rey can easily beat a wounded Kylo Ren.

Oh, so you liked the Yoda lightsaber fights?

>Untrained Luke beats Vader

We have literally no idea what Luke did between ESB and ROTJ. None of that is covered in canon.

Lightsabers can't cut through plot armour

Did you not?

>She was
>You have seen TFA, right?
>I don't know why you guys argue about these movies if you haven't seen them, and then say shit like "Luke was trained!" If Luke was trained, so was Rey, because we're given the exact same amount of evidence. That's how this works
Was that you? Who do you think trained this young girl to be able to beat a trained force user? Why do you think some scavenger could possibly be on the same level as a jedi apprentice?

I don't know which posts you're referring to. I think you're replying to the wrong person

>kylo ren appears in the second movie, barring rey from an important objective
>my powers have doubled since last we met, master rey
>rey simply hurls him against a wall with a force hadouken
>he slowly slides down and slumps on the ground, unconscious

btfo faggot

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Lucky i'm never going to pay for another star wars.

I'm not saying "Rey was trained" but rather "neither Luke and Rey were really ever trained in lightsaber dueling, yet they still managed to beat people who were."

>avoiding answering a pretty easy question

only
was me

Okay.

She was a feminist jewish SJW mary sue self-insertion prop basically

Also the first order did nothing wrong

Luke was guy who recieved training in the force from other jedi, rey scavenged shit in the desert, theres a big difference.

tell me which posts you were referring to so I know what you're talking about.

>the "generic bad guy(s) who killed millions of people for no good reason" did nothing wrong
well if I didn't know I could disregard your post by the first phrase you've said, I do now!

>in the force
But not in lightsaber dueling. There's absolutely no difference: both are untrained and neither should be able to best a trained lightsaber duelist.

>killed millions of people for no good reason
A villain with no motivation other than to be"evil"is a terrible villain.

I'm not referring to any posts. I'm asking what you (or another user) thought of the Yoda lightsaber fights. Did you like them or not? Why?

>killed his own father
Why?
>Because he was told to.

>For no good reason

Well we don't really know that because we have zero idea on how the politics were working. Why was there a first order to begin with? What was their relation to the New Republic? Why did both exist and what were their problems with eachother? Who held more sway in the galaxy?

How the fuck did the first order build that kind of super weapon with nobody doing anything to stop it? What's the resistance's relation to the republic?

The movie needed less action and more exposition.

If you watch rotj you'll see that luke doesn't have any kind of formal style with a lighsaber. He had a crash course in jedi training and the rest is raw talent.

I don't care about reasons, blowing up planets with billions of citizen is bad.

But yeah, a bit more worldbuilding would be neat.

The big problem with your implications is that one story is excitable, while the other has some sort of spiritual tension going on that no one can relate to, except lil angry girl Virginis

Exactly. Luke, like Rey, has zero training with a lightsaber.

So what's the problem with Rey winning against a wounded, tired opponent whose training isn't complete and who didn't even want to kill her in the first place?

He had a blaster shot in the belly, and just sustained a duel with internal bleeding.
But he lost because he is good on the inside, he is fighting his allingment and because of that he is less powerful then he should be.

Because Vader wanted Luke to kill him and take his place.

This will never be explained in the movies.
It'll will instead be sold to you like dlc, in the form of books comics and video games.

Kylo wanted to take Rey on as his apprentice, so he was holding back on her.

because she's a girl (reeeee) how do you not get this by now?

That and/or he was told by Snoke to capture her. Combined with his wounds and his reasoning for not wanting to kill her basically narrates Rey's victory.

Shit's not hard to understand.

Fucking jews.

Yea the only thing that's not really comparable is the timing.

Vader trying to have Luke replace him was a built up thing that was explicitly said and had two and an half movies of build up.

And you at least saw the progress Luke made after Vader handed him his ass in TESB to how he's at least able to handle his own in ROTJ

TFA did it right on the first film with vague motivations and at no point really showed that Rey needed to progress or improve. She's never really in any trouble.

>I don't care about reasons, blowing up planets with billions of citizen is bad.

liberals, everyone

What if they were space commies?

I think that's an oversimplification of people's issues with the character. I think it's too easy and not entirely accurate to call people sexist for not liking Rey or having issues with the character. I say this as the user who is saying "Rey isn't a Mary Sue, and if Luke can beat Vader without any formal training with a lightsaber, Rey can also beat Kylo (especially when he's wounded)."

No, I think people have an interpretation of Star Wars in their heads that clashes with events in TFA. Things like "only a level 20 Jedi can cast Jedi Mind Trick, so it makes no sense for Rey to be able to do that" even though the series never really says tricking a dummy with the Force is some high level magical spell or whatever.

Literally nothing wrong with that.

Luke having recieved training enabled him to have foresight and jedi reflexes, enhanced strength etcetera. Rey being compedant or even talented with her staff does not put her on any kind of level where she can fight a trained force user. There's a big difference between him not wanting to kill her and getting his ass kicked. Why didn't he end it after she got a hit on him? There isn't a good reason why he didn't fling her against a tree or wave his hand and knock her out or freeze her, all of which we'd seen him do with ease before. She only won because girl power is in.

True, TFA does rush things, and that's one of the flaws of the film in my opinion.

But the other movies show that you don't need training to have "Jedi reflexes:" Kid Anakin has them without ever once taking a Jedi Lesson or attending a Jedi Class in Jedi School. So does Luke in A New Hope. Hell, the things Kid Anakin and Luke accomplish are way more impressive than beating up a severely injured and tired opponent whose training isn't even complete.

see
Kylo was under orders to snatch that booty from his hologram boss.

Except anakin was the most naturally talented force user to ever exist and even he needed training. rey can just do everything because shes rey. luke is also naturally talented as you'd expect as anakins son but what does that amount to? him being a good pilot, still gets his as kicked by sand people. He surrenders himself to the force and manages to hit the exhaust port at obi wan's urging and thats the most impressive thing he does during the whole movie.

>There's a big difference between him not wanting to kill her and getting his ass kicked. Why didn't he end it after she got a hit on him? There isn't a good reason why he didn't fling her against a tree or wave his hand and knock her out or freeze her, all of which we'd seen him do with ease before. She only won because girl power is in.

She was channeling the power of Finn's bbc of course.

She's the chosen one and he was injured.

fuck off cunt

So Luke and Anakin can both be "naturally talented in the Force" but not Rey? That doesn't make sense.

I mean, in the prequels, they pretty much say that they find babies that are naturally talented in the Force and turn them into Jedi. This establishes that there are other people who are naturally talented with the Force beyond Anakin and Luke.

It seems like you've just got the wrong idea about Star Wars and the Force, and are expecting the movies to go by rules you've made up off how you interpreted the movies, assumptions you've jumped to, rather than anything they actually say in the movies.

jfc

Anakin was born of the force, Luke was his son. They have the most raw talent of anyone ever. Rey is on the level of Luke in rotj with no training at all.

This is next level cringe.

I thought the nigger would ruin the movie but actually it was the feminist bullshit that really destroyed it.

>If she is just some jerk off's daughter from Rogue One

we all know whose daughter she is.

Are you purposely being dense?

Luke, Anakin, and Rey are naturally gifted in the force.

Yet despite their force affinity, Luke and Anakin weren't incredible force users from the start. They had intuition sure but they never resisted mind control, used mine control, or won lightsaber duel against trained opponents. And they're supposed to be two of the greatest force users of all time.

Which is what makes Rey comical. She can do all of that with 0 formal training. So again, why exactly does Kylo want to train her when she apparently is more advanced than he is? She beat his mind tricks, tricked his guards, and out fought him. Rey should be offering to train him. And he's a known direct descendant of Anakin.

We didn't know Luke was Vader's son until the second movie, and we didn't know Vader was Space Jesus until decades later. We don't know anything about Rey yet, but we'll find out more next movie.

Besides, as pointed out, they state that they find people that can use the Force and turn them into Jedis in the prequels, meaning these people were able to use the Force before their training, meaning it makes sense that Rey is able to use the Force without training.

As far as being on Luke's level, what's this based on? That she beat a wounded man whose training wasn't even finished? How's that "on the level of Luke in rotj?"

Again, you're going off head canon.

>Luke and Anakin weren't incredible force users from the start
No, they just used the Force to win a pod race at an incredibly young age, destroy a starbase, and destroy the Death Star.

Meanwhile, Rey got the better of a man who was already severely wounded, whose training wasn't complete. Yeah, that's totally overpowered.

>tfw when the shit's so obvious it has to be true

I remember when the last starwars movie came out, we were all hyped for who is snoke going to be. the fucking dissapointment when it was revealed that it's palpatine, at least the second sith lord will be cool benicio del toro.

People on here just don't like Rey because she has a black love interest.

Same with Supergirl.

>resisted mind control
Earlier in the movie, Poe nearly does this, and he can't even use the Force at all (as far as we know).

>used mine control
Whoa, she tricked a stormtrooper. You gotta be a level 100 Jedi to cast that spell!

>won lightsaber duel against trained opponents.
She beat one guy who was already beat up, who was not trying to kill her, and whose training wasn't completed.

This

>Besides, as pointed out, they state that they find people that can use the Force and turn them into Jedis in the prequels, meaning these people were able to use the Force before their training, meaning it makes sense that Rey is able to use the Force without training.
None of that was in the prequels

>As far as being on Luke's level, what's this based on? That she beat a wounded man whose training wasn't even finished? How's that "on the level of Luke in rotj?"
We see her using the jedi mind trick, we see her draw the lighsaber to her, over powering kylo trying to do it at the same time, Luke struggles with that in empire.

No, JJ wanted her to have a black love interest but Disney wouldn't allow it.

>the fucking dissapointment when it was revealed that it's palpatine

snoke is palpatine, where was it revealed??!?!

Again, while that might be true for some people, I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion on everyone.

I think the better explanation is that people just have a head canon that says "Jedi mind trick can only be used once you reach level 60 in the Jedi class and buy the spell from your Jedi class trainer." Which is weird, because one of the prequel complaints was that midichlorians took away the mystical element of the Force, and yet here they are, turning the Force into spells that you can only use after you receive 15,000 amount of experience points in Jedi or something.

In his mind.

>None of that was in the prequels
They say in the Phantom Menace that, when they find a young kid who can use the Force, they train them to be Jedi.

Meaning they can use the Force before being Jedi, and at incredibly young ages, too.

>He believes this

You're gonna hate episode 8

Where the fuck in the movie was finn her love interest?

Which part user? I'm pretty sure it's just babies. they don't want people who've already got attachments, that's a big part of why they didn't want anakin.

>Luke struggles with that in empire
Luke never fights Kylo Ren in Empire. He fights Vader, a much more trained, much less injured, much more prepared opponent. Even then, he gives Vader a run for his money in Empire (you can't use "holding back" as an excuse here because Kylo is also holding back).

The Jedi Mind Trick isn't a level 100 Jedi Spell or anything, that's all your head canon based on assumptions.

When Luke brought the lightsaber to him in Empire, it was also before his training (Kenobi gives him a lesson in the Force, and it wasn't on telekinesis). Thing is, he's hanging upside, and he still manages to pull off the telekinesis (again, untrained).

Come on user, I don't like it either but its obvious they are going to get together. Probably at the end of 8.

You replied to the wrong user.

>babies can use the force but a grown woman can't
Huh?

keep dreaming user. The kiss on the head was the mark of the friend-zone if her rejecting his advance throughout the movie wasn't clear enough for you. If anything he'll get that fat Chinese girl as a door prize, but even she'll probably end up betraying him.

Exactly. A baby, without any training, can use the Force.

So why is it a problem that Rey can use the Force?

>the fucking dissapointment when it was revealed that it's palpatine

>kissing someone means friend zone
>Leia didn't turn down Han's advances in the first movie

Its happening user. It sucks, but its happening.

>wasn't untrained.
uhhhhhhhh...? what

>Destroy the death star
After being saved by Han. Yes, Luke was a good pilot. He wasn't a great fighter on top of that even after training. Nor was he some remarkable mechanic. And he never used force powers other than noticeably struggling with grabbing things and focusing his intuition.

>Win a pod race and destroy a star base
Which was stupid and received criticism. Anakin was also a Mary sue but at least suffered the consequences of being too powerful.

The problem isn't that Rey is strong in the force. The problem is that Rey is strong in everything. She's a remarkable pilot, remarkable engineer and mechanic, can speak every language ever, knows force powers like the mind trick that she never even saw used much less was taught to use, knows how to use a lightsaber after having only touched it once, PLUS has incredible force affinity, and everybody loves her because she's just so awesome.

That's a Mary Sue, no matter how much you want to falseflag with shit like

I don't really care who he hooks up with, but Leia kissed Luke twice in ANH, and then again in Empire.

I wouldn't think too much of it.

And Rey beat Kylo only after being saved by Finn. What's your point?

Did you only read the first sentence? Because the point followed you fucking retard.

>Again, while that might be true for some people, I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion on everyone.
doesn't this imply that you thought there was something between them but you think only some people hate her for it?
>babies can use the force but a grown woman can't
Huh?
they take children with high midichlorian counts before they gain attachments to their families.

>Girl with no parents or guardian in a desert planet full of savages somehow knows how to fight, scavenge, pilot, fix spaceships AND use the force in just a day

Yeah totally realistic. This is not feminist pandering or anything. Luke had a master and trained for years but this bitch can do everything in a few hours. Fuck off this movie was terrible.

>The problem isn't that Rey is strong in the force.
That's the problem people are having with her in this thread.

>That's a Mary Sue, no matter how much you want to falseflag with shit like

I'm not that user, and have spoke out against that kind of thing in this thread. In fact, here's my reply to that very post:

You're fucking retarded user

>they take children with high midichlorian counts before they gain attachments to their families.
They take midichlorian counts after the baby shows signs of being able to use the Force.

And since it's canon, Star Wars Rebels has shown that, yes, a baby can use the Force without any training whatsoever, including moving shit around.

Disney put the kibosh on that idea already. Why would she ever want someone as pathetic as Finn turned out to be, more likely it'll be Kylo or more likely still she'll be a strong woman who doesn't need a man.

SOME people on here just don't like Rey because she has a black love interest. SOME.

FTFY

Fuck your disney canon faggot

>Rey used the Force to beat Kylo Ren. MARY SUE!
Yeah, but Luke used the Force to destroy the Death Star.
>Only after Han helped him
And Rey beat Kylo only after being saved by Finn.
>Fucking retard
I'm going to tell your mom on you for using a cuss.

Again, it's all about your head canon, isn't it?

Then I think you misunderstand the arguments in this thread.

Rey can be strong in the force but the complaint is that how strong somebody is in the force has never manifested in anybody else that way it has in her. Not even in the chosen one, who was literally force jesus.

If Rey was a really good pilot and had a strong intuition then it would be par for the course, as shown with Luke and Anakin. Instead she can use force powers right off the bat, like the mind trick that she's never even seen used up to that point she just magically knows how to use the force that way.

She's strong and she almost immediately realizes she's strong to overcome everything that she faces. That immediately kills any tension from her struggles. Because she didn't struggle for a thing.

THIS

Not really user, I just haven't watched that children's cartoon and hated that tfa didn't fit with the other 6 movies.

Again, only according to your head canon do "Force powers" require you to have 50 levels in Jedi or whatever to use. You've made assumptions, and ones that frankly aren't supported by the movies when Luke was able to move things with the Force prior to being trained to move things with the Force.

something that didn't even happen yet as opposed to all the other reasons that get posted on Cred Forums every day.

I'm willing to wait out this new trilogy before I beat the Mary Sue drum. They could un-Mary Sue her with a reasonable backstory, which we don't yet have.

However, a decent "explanation" still wont make TFA any better as a story or movie.

I get the pottery, Luke longed to leave his planet, but Rey wanted to stay, and even after she left she kept talking about going back. Her affinity for certain space shenanigans isn't established, though her fighting ability is. Rey, as a character is the worst part of TFA. Having said that, it's shot well, looks pretty and has really good CGI.

6/10 good try JJ.

Your head canon, that you can't use the Force without training, doesn't fit the other 6 movies. We've seen characters move things with the Force and such without being trained to do so, and we've never been told "unless you've been trained, you can't use the Jedi mind trick."

So you think that people have an inherent knowledge on how force powers work?

It's not a matter of power level you fucking idiot, it's actually understanding a power that you didn't even know you had.

If I have the force but I've never even seen it used, how do I know the ways that I can use it? Luke could use the force but he didn't know what the jedi mind trick was. He could use it later because he saw Obi-Wan used it but how could he or Rey know that was even a possibility without having seen it done before?

How does Rey know the extent the force works when the first time she really has any confirmation of "the force" comes from Han Solo?

It will though.

And some people just can't stop being mad about it.

The main character is a mary sue with a black love interest.

Luke was able to tap in to the force after receiving some training from obi wan. there's a a year between anh and tesb, obviously he's been practising "stretching out with his feelings" and such. He still struggles to draw his lightsaber to his hand.

I don't really care either way user but i'm interested as to why you're so certain about it?

>I don't really care either way

Not him but how can you not care?

The main protag is a cringey Mary Sue who has an obvious black love interest. Its so fucking stupid.

which one of these things would break Cred Forums the most

1- Rey is lukes daughter
2-She beats kylo even harder than in ep 7
3-She fall in love with finn

3 is already happening so probably 2.

I've been a big fan of star wars for most of my life but tfa pretty much killed any enthusiasm or hope I had for the series going forward. I'll watch the old movies and probably download episode 8 and rogue one but disney won't get another cent out of me.

keep dreaming nigger

So you're not enthusiastic about the series anymore because the main protagonist is a girl with a black love interest?

Stay in denial cracker

sso prequels were okay but TFA broke your back?

It really doesn't take much to break Cred Forums. Just release the movie and watch this board burn.

I have no idea why people thought Kylo was a good villain.

You at the very least want your villain to be menacing. Kylo was beyond insecure and sniveling, he was incompetent, nothing ever seemed to go his way.

I didn't think tfa fit with the other 6 at all. I thought Rey and Finn were both stupid characters that didn't make any sense and I hated that it shit all over the classic characters.

They had imagination and there was enough that I liked in them that I could still have a good time.

>literal prequel apologist hates TFA

why are you so sure?

Where were the star wars aliens? Where were the different ships? Why were the chewie and threepio costumes so shit?

She was clearly NOT untrained dumbass.

John Boyega already said he and Daisy weren't playing romance at all. Finn and Rey won't fuck. He's getting with the new chinese chick.

Rey's romance will be with Kylo Ren. Just you fucking watch.

explain dumbass

1 and 3 have been pretty much wrecked. 2 is possible but I doubt it.

Ah yes, Star Wars aliens like a flying Jew or a cartoon rabbit that steps in the poo-poo.

They did play it too safe with ship designs, though. It's not a great movie. Doesn't have to be to beat prequels.

She's stronger in the Force, he's an egotistical manchild who can't control his temper.

Also, he'd been shot in the chest with a rifle and decided to beat the wound with his fist because idiot.

>how do I know the ways that I can use it?
Rey says that she's heard stories about the Jedi and the Force and how they used it. I'm even pretty sure she mentions the mind trick.

So when she finds out that she can use the Force, she tries something she's heard about in a story once, and it works.

She's heard stories, thought they were myth. Han tells her they're real, and then she sees that it's real by witnessing Kylo use the Force. Then she finds out she can use the Force, and does something she heard in a story. What's so unbelievable about that?

She never said any of that. You're the one pulling out head canon now because you don't have an actual argument.

It's said in the movie.

Was it really too hard for them to put in a few Twi'lek, Duros, Bith, Aqualish, Rodians? I mean I understand if they were trying to steer clear of Gungans and Toydarians but everything in tfa looked like something out of dr who

just like you thought they talked about finding people to turn in to jedi in tpm, give it up faggot.

you sound like an ignorant faggot user

Yes, just like that one thing that was in the movies, this is also in the movies.

Because he's a fucking WHITE MALE.

So Boyega has 2 Sci Fi movies coming out where he fucks Asian girls?

Nice

i'm pretty sure the closest you get is qui gon saying anakin would have been identified earlier if he'd been born in the rebublic

Post the line. I just watched the movie and that line never came up so please post the quote.

She said she'd her stories about the jedi, but she never mentioned specifics.

That and we see straight up see a Jedi find someone who can use the Force and turn that guy into a Jedi in both the original trilogy and the prequels.

I don't know where you got it in your head that people can only use the Force if they're trained by the Jedi. It's like thinking human beings can't run unless they're trained for track and field.

>She said she'd her stories about the jedi
She sure did. Glad we can agree.

Didn't they put in enough fanservice to you? It's literally the biggest flaw of the movie, fanservice upon fanservice upon fanservice, and you ask for more. Even fucking Akbar is there!

I might be a faggot, but I ain't ignorant!

Disney

If you're going to be obtuse about it and say something like "she never mentioned specifics," then she never says she heard stories about the Jedi.

She just knows who the Jedi are in a scene with Han, but did not believe they were real.

But if we're going to say "she's heard stories about the Jedi" then that would include "things the Jedi could do" (especially if she didn't believe the stories, since the things she'd been told they could do would be pretty hard to believe).

And this to you means that she must've heard about the jedi mind trick and force grabbing lightsabers and how they work?

That's a stretch and you fucking know it. Luke saw it straight on and had guidance from Obi-Wan and it still took him a year to struggle pulling that off.

Anakin and Luke were exceptions to the rule but that has nothing to do with what you were originally claiming.

The fan service they put in was completely stupid. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect to see the types of creatures that have always existed in star wars, they add new ones with every movie but in tfa all we got was the token Ackbar and Nien Nunb. Everything in maz's cantina looked like shit.

>And this to you means that she must've heard about the jedi mind trick and force grabbing lightsabers and how they work?

Yep, especially given Han's response to her not believing in the Jedi.

> I used to wonder about that myself. Thought it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. A magical power holding together good and evil... the dark side and the light. Crazy thing is... it's true. The Force. The Jedi. All Of it. It's all true.

It's not a stretch at all that she heard stories of the Jedi and tried out something she heard in a story. In fact, the only way they could have made that more obvious is if she flat out said "heh heard about that in a story about the Jedi, who'd believe it was actually true." Do you really need to make it that blatant?

>Luke saw it straight on and had guidance from Obi-Wan and it still took him a year to struggle pulling that off.

Luke never actually sees Obi-Wan move things with the Force (in fact, he uses it without being trained to do so), and Luke never struggles to use the mind trick, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I disagree, most things there looked okay... except for Maz herself, I guess. The rations guy on fake Tatooine looked okay.

>Anakin and Luke were exceptions to the rule
Nope.

>but that has nothing to do with what you were originally claiming.
Luke and Anakin both use the Force prior to being trained to do so. Luke moves things with the Force despite not being trained to do so. Anakin uses the Force to pilot his podracer without any training.

Again, I can run despite not being trained by an Olympic coach. Don't see why this is a hard concept to grasp: if you can use the Force, you can use the Force.

Keep avoiding the fact you fucked up with your original claim. Luke and Anakin were exceptions in that they began jedi training at a much later age than was normal.

>unintelligent 19 year old

An average 19 year old, then.

Actually, how did Luke move the lightsaber? Kenobi never showed him that one or told him how to do it or anything, and he hadn't heard any stories about the Force or the Jedi before considering he had no clue what Kenobi was talking about in A New Hope and had to have it explained to him (unlike Rey).

So how did he do it?

I'm still waiting for you to point out where in tfm they talk about finding people to turn in to jedi and the part in tfa where rey talks about jedi mind tricks.

>Luke and Anakin both use the Force prior to being trained to do so. Luke moves things with the Force despite not being trained to do so. Anakin uses the Force to pilot his podracer without any training.
We've been through this you obtuse faggot.

We see a Jedi find a person who can use the Force and take them in to train them to be a Jedi. Qui-Gon does it with Anakin, Kenobi does it with Luke.

Never said anything about Rey talking about mind tricks, just that she'd heard stories of the Jedi and what they could do, as evidenced by her knowing who the Jedi were yet not believing they were real.

And you've been proven wrong again and again.

Also, dude, language.

"You mean it controls your actions? Yes partially but it also obeys your commands."

stretched out with his feeling to block the training remote "I could almost see it"

Tapped in to the force to guide the torpedo in to the exhaust port.

Is it that much of stretch for you that after a year of playing around with the force on his own that he realised he could move stuff, it was clearly still a challenge for him.

Movie flat out says, if you've got the midichlorians, you can use the Force, which means you don't need training to use the Force.

>And you've been proven wrong again and again.
where?

That's a huge leap from "I could see something with my eyes closed" to "I can move things with my mind." Those two things aren't even close to interconnected.

>We see a Jedi find a person who can use the Force and take them in to train them to be a Jedi. Qui-Gon does it with Anakin, Kenobi does it with Luke.
You mean the two people with the strongest connection to the force ever? Again we've been through this already.

In this thread.

And Rey isn't? If you have to be an exception to the rule to use the Force without training (even though TPM says all you really need is midichlorians) then I guess she is an exception to the rule, too, and we'll find out why later on (the same way we learned more about Luke and Anakin, only this time, maybe it won't take a few decades for us to get answers).

Are you purposely being dense?

Luke, Anakin, and Rey are naturally gifted in the force.

Yet despite their force affinity, Luke and Anakin weren't incredible force users from the start. They had intuition sure but they never resisted mind control, used mine control, or won lightsaber duel against trained opponents. And they're supposed to be two of the greatest force users of all time.

Which is what makes Rey comical. She can do all of that with 0 formal training. So again, why exactly does Kylo want to train her when she apparently is more advanced than he is? She beat his mind tricks, tricked his guards, and out fought him. Rey should be offering to train him. And he's a known direct descendant of Anakin.

>Yet despite their force affinity, Luke and Anakin weren't incredible force users from the start.
Yeah, they were, and they got better over time.

See and

How do you suppose the force can obey your commands if you can't affect anything in your environment? What did obi wan mean by this?

We never see them do a thing doesn't mean they can't. You're making assumptions, and then getting upset that the new movie didn't strictly adhere to your assumptions.

It's stated that each jedi designs their own lightsaber in a new hope iirc. The prequel totally ruins this by having everyone use blue and green lightsabers. Purely talking about the movies here, and nothing else.

First post ITT but I hated the lightsaber fights because they never really made sense to me why Jedi and Sith that are trying to kill eachother use lightsabers. I thought it was used as sort of a duel between two members that already knew/met each other, and were trying to convert the other/gauge their power level. If one was trying to kill the other, they wouldn't need lightsabers. For instance, couldn't the Jedi use the force to collide objects into each other to destroy all of the droids in the arena scene? Lightsabers are overused in the prequels, and the only people that defend them imo saw the prequels before the original movies.