Could anyone other than obi-wan have beaten anakin in his prime?

Sheev planned for Vader to be a crispy fried spaz?

I think sheev could probably still hear him, but it's not the kind of thing he left to chance.

In the end, he eventually relents and arranges to finally give Vader a new, more advanced suit, but it sadly is never finished

Still beat him*

He wasnt even close to his prime when obi wan beat his ass.
We will never know what potential he had since the vader suit extremly dumbs down his force ability and he was still the baddest fucker in the universe.

Called Sokan, and Soresu

Probably not, but he took the opportunity when he got it. The rule of 2 is still in effect, where the apprentice will eventually challenge and either die by his master's hand or usurp him and select a new apprentice.

I still doubt Sheev could beat Darth Vader pre-suit, and would eventually have somehow weakened him to prevent him from turning on him, as became the case until the very last moment.

Prime Windu>>>prime Anakin=prime Obi Wan>>>Bad Dragon Anakin>>>>geriatric Obi Wan

>I still doubt Sheev could beat Darth Vader pre-suit
If it were just a fight he probably couldn't, but he was a much better force user than Anakin at that point

Imagine a Darth Vader in his prime (Around 40 years old) without the armor numbing his force ability or his mobility or his lightsaber movements.

Holy shit what a fucking freight train. The attack on Hoth would have been a distraction while Darth Vader jumps down atop the Rebel Base and slaughters everyone inside within an hour, if not less.

>looking into films which have false depth
It's a kids franchise. Kids don't scrutinize things.
Quit being a manchild and accept it for what it is.

>anakin basically becomes some anime version of a force user rolling around

Rougher upbringing. Bigger. More cunning.

Pretty sure Windu would've destroyed Anakin in seconds.

Sheev could have taken him easily.
The reason he gimped Vader originally was because he was angry at Vader for getting his shit rekt.
Post-Vader was canonically more powerful that Anakin. It's noted by the few jedi who fight him while knowing his identity.
Prior to episode 4 Sheev was already considering giving Vader a suit that didn't suck because he realized that maybe with a less shitty suit Vader could beat him, or failing that beat everyone else.

He wasn't in his prime.

Anakin at his full potential was theorized to be something like Sheev*2
Even after getting fucked up by the time of the original trilogy he was like 80% Sheev (or closer) but that didn't matter since Sheev's force lightning would do him in.

>Swordman
Windu
Anakin
Obi-Wan
Yoda
Palpatine

>Force User
Palpatine
Yoda
Anakin
Windu
Obi-Wan

On the topic at hand. Obi-Wan is classified as a Jedi Guardian basically. Defensive Soresu technique and he was regarded as one of the best. The purpose of Soresu being to drag out the fight for as long as possible to reach a diplomatic resolution.

Then you have Anakin. Using Ataru and Soresu. To very powerful offensive techniques. Very quick as well, trying to finish a fight quickly.

So you have a case of unstoppable force meets and unmoveable object. Ultimately on equal grounds they would have fought for hours. But because of Anakin's arrogance and terrain, he lost to Obi-Wan.

>Obi-Wan basically ran away the entire fight

You mean he defended himself the entire fight and waited for Anakin to wear himself out and fuck up? Obi-Wan was a master of lightsaber defense. Basically any jedi would have no chance at killing him by attacking him with only a lightsaber.

>RHCP - Higher Ground starts playing

Windu in a landslide

Yoda in a landslide

Sheev in a landslide

How did Luke defeat Vader? That was the dumbest thing that could have happened in the og trilogy.

Uchiha Madara.

>Bigger
cia.jpg

Anakin would have become more powerful than sheev, but he didn't because he got sliced up before being able to reach his prime. Obi-wan trained anakin very poorly and held him back. It should be easy to beat someone who only knows what you've trained them.

>no Dooku in Swordsman
He was one of the best.

>anakin don't jump
>*jumps*
>*gets rekt*
he beat himself

Because Vader didn't really want to kill his son, or did you miss that rather vital part of the StarWars narrative? It's clear from the Endor scene between Luke and Vader that it was actually this moment when Vader started to doubt himself and motives and began the turn back to the Light side. In fact it could have even been the moment luke jumped on bespin and left a large gaping hole in Vader's heart.

Windu would have WRECKED Anakin. He's strong enough to go toe to toe with Sheev and got the upper hand (inb4 it's was Sheev's keikaiku to get Anakin to cross to the Dark Side), and he's all about mastering emotions to make tools out of them.
Anakin was on a downward spiral to be consumed by his emotions; first he failed to control his love for Padme, which Sheev used in a way so that Anakin would end up dominated by his fear of losing Padme, his anger towards Obi-Wan and the council, and eventually every other possible emotions, making him Sheev's puppet. And second, he overrated his own abilities (or the power he would get from the Dark Side). You think Windu wouldn't have picked up on that ? He would have toyed with Anakin for a few minutes, frustrate him and feed his anger until he would commit a mistake. And he wouldn't have been as merciful as Obi-Wan was.

If Obi-Wan and Yoda went to meet Sheev and Windu to meet Anakin, the Dark Side would have been BTFO for at least a couple millenia

...

Ehh I'd put him above Obi-Wan since his mix of force and sword technique fucked him up twice.

I was more focused on the big players at the end of the clone wars. Which were the ones I mentioned. Dooku was dead at that point so I never thought of him.

Well considering Vapaad(?) is a technique that prays on Dark Side users and users the force against them(evidence to what happened to Sheev getting fucked) he would win against Anakin no problem. Even with a clear head, I think Anakin would have lost. He still wasn't at a 100% and he was young and arrogant.

Rebels Darth Vader would have destroyed Windu though.

I want Obi to be the best duelist too but let's be honest. He got his ass handed to him by Dooku on two occasions.
In general the dark side is stronger than the light side due to simply brute forcing the enemy.
In general:
> Dark side (which has its own hierarchy) > Yoda >= Windu > Obi > Anakin (pre-suit) > Maul > Qui gonn

I still fail to see how Darth Vader remaining relevant thanks to his swordsmanship and not just his mastery of the Force could be justified, considering his fucked up robotized body. I even think that's (part of) why Luke won against him.

they tried to explain that with Galen Marek but they fucked that up too

Pre-Suit Vader was agile and strong. Post-Suit Vader was crippled in terms of what he could do with the force. He couldn't throw lightning because he didnt have the hands to channel it. He became much physically stronger because of the cybernetic enhancements at the cost of his agility. Basically became a tank.

Luke well, he was gifted. He bested Vader with his agility and Luke did sorta went in to a rage when they mentioned Leia. So that flow of emotion allowed him to get the drop on Vader, after he cut his arm... Well you guys know what happened after that.

This makes sense but I wasn't aware Yoda was any great shakes with the lightsaber. I thought he was a very wise and powerful force user, but mace window, anakin and obi sort of formed the top tier of lightsaber combatants.

Yoda, Sheev, and that's about it. Anakin was supposed to be a top tier duelist by Ep. III. Obi-Wan too, but he didn't have Anakin's raw power and potential.

Bane is the first of the Rule of Two Sith. He's the weakest of the bunch canonically.

Darth Nihilus would fuck him up no problem.

>Windu in a landslide

No. Windu was Dooku level.

Not with a lightsaber he isn't. He was beating the shit out of Kas'im

Bane/Zannah are retardedly powerful

Yoda is canonically the greatest swordsman the Order ever had (until Luke).

Kas'im is a joke. Each Sith is supposed to prove himself worthy by defeating his master. The Rule of Two has been going on for 1000 years, so that's about 40 generations. That's 40 Sith Lords that are all > Bane.

Vader is > Anakin in the Force, though. He lost a lot of his potential, but he had decades to refine his technique. By RotJ he's 80% of Sheev in power.

Kas'im existed before that and he did defeat his original master, the difference was he was weak minded enough to be pulled into Brotherhood of darkness.

Even bane admitted best lightsaberist he had ever seen. Mastering all the forms including dual wielding? his force abilities were weak, not the blade.

Kas'im taught Bane, he existed before and during formulation of the rule.

Bane fought 4 jedi at the same time. "force of nature" is what a jedi master called Bane.

The latter yeah, when Luke jumped, the camera angle on Vader's reaction is telling, as is Vader's reaction itself which is like "What the..."

Notice how he also doesn't kill his subordinates anymore after that at any point in the series. Admiral Piett knows he's gonna die after the Falcon's escape, but Vader doesn't feel it anymore, he lets him off and walks away.

I am still salty about the end of it.

He could have at least finished Anakin off or they could have had Anakin defeated in a more ambiguous way.

So? That doesn't mean anything. The Jedi and Sith of Bane's time are all shit tier compared to Yoda, Mace, and Palpatine. Cin Drallig was the Order's blademaster, knew all 7 forms, and still got destroyed by Anakin.

Revansoloed the entire Korriban Academy, including the headmaster and his apprentice, and he's only around Vader level, and this is someone Bane idolizes.

Cyborg Master of the force should be stronger than young anakin unless you count really retarded and retconned extended universe crap

Obi-Wan was a master on the council.

The first time he got his ass kicked by Dooku he wasn't at peak ability yet and the second time he wasn't defeated in lightsaber skill.

This isn't true about the suit. The irony in Sheev nerfing him physically, is that it forced Anakin to become super intune with the Force. The suit pushed him to rely on tactical use of his power and mind.

The suit never prevented his force ability, just his physical ability.