Why did Cypher trust the Matrix? Did he really believe it would let him live the life he wanted?

Why did Cypher trust the Matrix? Did he really believe it would let him live the life he wanted?

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Because it was the world he knew. That's why the Jews are so successful. They create a life for you that is hard to turn away from when you're old enough to see their machinations.

it let him sit there eating that steak. whats not to believe?

oh for fucks sake shut the fuck up you dickhead. wealthy whites made them rich by paying for commercials on their networks. its not about jews. its about the wealthy. wealthy people are controlling shit not just jews. grow the fuck up.

the machines never lied. They were always balls out honest.

I don't think he really cared anymore. The world that the "free" humans inhabit is so awful, so hopeless, that I bet Cypher wouldn't have minded if the machines just killed him.

Cypher was an idiot, but he seemed determined not to live anymore the way he was living in the ship. I can't tell if he trusted the Matrix, but at least he could try.

PS: you are living in Matrix right now

A) She was a whooer
B) She hit him

How did he think they were going to get his body back to the battery zone? Just let him ride horseback on one of the sentinels?

globalist jew detected, we're on to you lizard people!

>Did he really believe it would let him live the life he wanted?
If he held up his end of the bargain it would, what you think its impossible for the machines that made the matrix to put a human back in?

Cypher did nothing wrong.

He really didn't.
Fuck fighting the machines and eating shit food when you can relax and live a relatively cozy life and eat steaks.

being wealthy doesn't mean you're not stupid enough to be manipulated.

People always say they'd live in VR 24/7 in those holodeck threads, hypocrites

Why wouldn't they? The machines don't care what kind of life Cypher lives as long as it's in the Matrix. The machines wanted something, Cypher could get it for them.

W H A T · I S · T H E · M A T R I X ? · F O L L O W · T H E · W H I T E · R A B B I T · Y O U · A R E · M Y · P E R S O N A L · J E S U S · C H R I S T · Y O U · N E E D · T O · U N P L U G · W H A T · I S · R E A L ? · O U R · W A Y · O R · T H E · H I G H W A Y · I · T H O U G H T · Y O U · W E R E · A · M A N · W H A T · G O O D · I S · A · P H O N E C A L L · I F · Y O U · A R E · U N A B L E · T O · S P E A K ? · W H E N · Y O U · A R E · R E A D Y · Y O U · W I L L · N O T · N E E D · T O · D O D G E · B U L L E T S · T H E R E · I S · A · D I F F E R E N C E · B E T W E E N · K N O W I N G · T H E · P A T H · A N D · W A L K I N G · T H E · P A T H · T H E R E · I S · N O · S P O O N · M I S T E R · A N D E R S O N · W E L C O M E · B A C K · C O O K I E S · N E E D · L O V E · D O D G E · T H I S · F O R · Z I O N ! · R E D · P I L L · B L U E · P I L L · N O T · L I K E · T H I S · N O T · L I K E · T H I S · I · K N O W · K U N G · F U · I F · Y O U · A R E · K I L L E D · I N · T H E · M A T R I X · Y O U · D I E · H E R E ? · D O · Y O U · T H I N K · T H A T · T H A T · I S · A I R · T H A T · Y O U · A R E · B R E A T H I N G ? · T R I N I T Y · H E L P ! · W H O A · N E O · I · B E L I E V E · S I R · W E · A L R E A D Y · L O S T · T H E · D O C K · W E · H A V E · B E C O M E · E X C E E D I N G L Y · E F F I C I E N T · A T · I T · T O N I G H T · L E T · U S · S H A K E · T H I S · C A V E · E R G O · Y O U · H A V E · A L R E A D Y · M A D E · T H E · C H O I C E · I · H A V E · D R E A M E D · A · D R E A M · B U T · N O W · T H A T · D R E A M · I S · G O N E · F R O M · M E · V I S · À · V I S · W H Y · M I S T E R · A N D E R S O N · W H Y ? · W H A T · D O · Y O U · T H I N K · I · A M · H U M A N ? · N E O · W H E R E V E R · Y O U · A R E · T H A N K · Y O U

Are you mentally challenged? He means that the machines have no reason to put them back in to "honor some contract" they have with him. They would just kill them, what would he do? You cannot negotiate with someone with that much power over you (practically all the power).

you really are stupid. dont you think the wealthy whites have the same internet you do. theyre privy to all the gay conspiracy bullshit you eat up and pretend to be superior with. you think everyone is stupid except you and thats just one of the main problems with people like you. but yeah, if a wealthy person wasnt smart theyd cease to be wealthy soon after so dont delude yourself. the shit you believe is dumb as fuck. its internet garbage and if you think the mainstream media is bull what stops the shit you believe for being just as shit. its the wealthy subjugating the stupid. thats the game. any and everything else is just stupid people who havent figured it out yet or dont want to believe it.

first-general viral marketing/ARGs were some fun shit

why wouldnt they put him back? i mean when i think of machines i dont think of assholes who fuck people over. i think theyd put him back without even thinking of it. its not like they have some kind of mean streak or anger towards him, they operate based on programming.

What does it matter how he got there? He wouldn't remember it anyway.

Are they his neighbours in the matrix?

CNN dot com and Buzzfeed don't exactly peddle the Jewish conspiracy (intentionally) so I doubt normie safe exposed to anything approaching persuasive

The movies never establish why it's bad to stay inside the matrix.

I just had a pastagasm

how they subjugate the stupid is the game. create a world where people are disconnected and lost in fantasy then they will become weak. more than that, they will love fantasy so much that like cypher many would choose it even if they saw reality.

He is only human.

Machines aren't humans

They don't lie.

They literally covered this in the animatrix

I just mean he must have considered the absurdity of the sentinels fucking up the Nebachanezer, pausing to say "wait don't kill that guy we made a deal with him over a steak dinner," and then hauling him off to get plugged back in.

Don't get me wrong I love the movie

>watching anime
no thanks, I have some dignity left

Did you even watch the movies user? His plan was to kill everyone else on the ship. He would then fly to to a predetermined meeting place to surrender and be reinserted.

Why the fuck do the machines even provide a simulation for humans? Why not just put them in a fucking coma and then just harness the energy? Or better question why not fuck off to another planet or build a habitat in space?

the whole point is its obviously wealthy vs broke and stupid. if it was about race, why wouldnt wealthy whites be upset? i mean i get that you guys think youre really smart cuz you spend lots of time alone on the internet but how do you really believe everyone except you is stupid? what youre saying is every company who has ever run an advertisement on any media medium that is run by the jewish is either an idiot or a race traitor. personally the audacity of you fucking losers to think you know better than everyone else and theres a conspiracy that only you and other idiots like you are smart enough to pick up on is fucking incredible. the reason you really do this even if you wont admit it is because you want to imply that youre superior because youre white and the reason you werent born successful is because youre being secretly discriminated against. but that just isnt true. the world is becoming a more fair place. you want things to fall in your lap without having to work for it and because it doesnt, its the jews, theyre out to get us. its bullshit, and youll say im a jew or im wrong but its just because you cant accept the fact that you suck and nothing comes for free. wealthy whites have absolutely no problem thriving in this society, have done so and will continue to do so as long as human beings exist. you on the other hand will bitch and moan and never realize that you dont get to win just for being white, you have to earn it. now tell me more about how its someone elses fault you arent awesome.

the simulation is their way of fucking with humans.

Probably some dumb explanation like their brain activity is what gives the electricity element or some shit idk

#BTFO

Because the first law of robots is not to hurt humans

SHE WAS A HOOAH TONY

youre on the money with that one. but that isnt a big jewish masterplan. people have ALWAYS enjoyed multiple forms of entertainment. and the richer you are the more entertainment you enjoy. this country is a spoiler and pampered first world country. youre inherently weak. its not the jews fault. im so saying the jews dont manipulate anything because they do but so does every other rich master class of people. dont forget jews check caucasian on government forms just like you. the only reason anybody would ever care about something as unimportant as the difference between being aryan and any other kind of white is because they want to feel special and they havent done anything to earn feeling good so they have to pretend to be born superior. but if being aryan doesnt entitle to you to any wealth or power than anyone who isnt lying to themselves can see its pathetic bullshit.

read this

Fuck off back to shitposting on /gabagool/ we are trying to have a serious discussion

SHE WAS A BUTIFUL INNOCENT GABAGOOL WHAT SHE DUN TO YOU??

>Morpheus and the Machines both establish that it's trivial to wipe people's mind and make them believe complete bullshit (Blue Pill)
>The Matrix is a simulation, and the Machines have literally nothing to lose if they give some random idiot the Mayor's seat, or turn him into a popstar or anything of the sort

>Nah brah, the Machines can't be trusted! What if they like, stab him in the back for literally no reason, when he openly volunteers to be their human battery and all he asks is to be given a specific person inside the simulation that they'll be running regardless of whether or not he goes in or not?

Unfortunately, my world is infinitely more complicated, so I don't have the luxury of blaming all my failures on an ethnic group.

>serious discussion about a movie made by a couple of Jew tranny siblings

because of the reason cypher basically laid out.

the machines were nice to the humans. they created a great world for them to live in, so that if they ever woke up, they would just want to go back.

if everyone was in a coma and got out, they would be pissed and possibly start a revolution.

>if everyone was in a coma and got out
How would anybody get out if they're all in a coma? The machines literally cannot lose in this scenario.

what was the last thing your pathetic aryan ass did? jack off to traps in your moms basement?

I would trust the shit out of the matrix for that steak.

Sure it is :^)

People wake up from comas you know

>doggo logic

isn't it stated somewhere that the machines never wanted to actually hurt the humans? i thought it was said that the machines created the whole world for them to live in FOR them, so that they couldn't destroy it.

the machines were occupying their body's but they wanted the humans to be able to live

How are they hurt when they're just permanently asleep?

The Jews have been the dominant force in pushing for certain trends that change countries. You might argue that Europe flooded with Muslims isn't a bad change. Okay, that's your opinion, maybe you like Sharia law.

youtube.com/watch?v=rA7Ymki71fM

This.

Canonically, the Machines always kept their word and they were willing to grant comforts to those who do something useful to them.

It hurts they're feelings

He got reincarnated in the Matrix as Ralph Cifaretto so I guess everything went better than expected

>da secret evil joo cabal conspiracy destroying le white rice by controlling all media
>speaks publically about it as if it were nothing

>They operate on programming

The Machines were driven by rage towards Humanity for trying to destroy them on multiple occasions followed by turning the Earth into a cold, barren hellscape. They hate Humanity, and liken themselves to curing the disease by containing it in a digital world (hence Mr. Smith's comment.)

What part of the Sentinel's weaponry suggests cool, mechanical efficiency? They carve people like turkeys, that ain't a clean or painless or easy death.

There are no material disadvantages to giving him what he wants. They get his human battery energy and it costs virtually nothing to let him use the character selection screen.

Also, machines are not like humans. Machines have nothing but disdain for human behavior, a human will easily inflict suffering on another if there are no consequences to their actions. Most of you are edgy little shits yourselves so you should understand this. In the cartoons we see how humans began to hate machines and warred with them before the machines flipped out and turned them into cattle, the machines are not the epitome of moral righteousness, but their "evolution" left them sticking to some principles.

Just by expressing his desire to be a rock star he made it in the interests of the machines to do so.

well to be totally honest the real answer is its just a movie and we're all losers for talking about it past the point of did you like it? oh me too. but yeah if we're gonna talk it about, youre right. smith was way more wordy than any machine would ever be and the sentinals were sloppy as well considering they were fine tuned machines.

Do you guys think the Machines would have gone nightmarish murder.exe if Humanity never unleashed the nanomachines?

thats what i think too but everyone else seems to think the machines were dicks.

>not having doggo logic
I bet you don't like going bye-byes in the car or getting belly rubs either. Fucking pleb

Live a lie long enough and it becomes the truth.

The Machines were dicks, but they weren't assholes.

Why did the machines not try to clear the sky? Surely they would have the means to do so.

If the religious angle of the movies is to be taken into account then he probably represents the Pascal's Wager side of things for those seeking a utopia in the matrix. If the deal goes through he wins, if it doesn't he doesn't ever realize it, and if he doesn't make the deal he has the "hell" of being cold, hungry, on the run all the time etc.

Machines put you in goo surrounded by big boom lightning, that is scary and they don't give you a bathtub to hide in.

i dunno dude, its kinda cold when you get too high up there.

They couldn't figure out how to contain it, and by the time any solution could be found the damage has already been done.

Why contain it?

>In the cartoons

You must be 18 or over to use this sight

didn't Cypher succeed? I thought he went back into the Matrix and became Ronald Reagan? Agent Smith calls him Mr Reagan at their dinner

The machines don't seem to have made many practical technological advancements in the real world in the centuries they've lived under the darkened sky. They still have the hover tech, some ballistic weaponry, and stuff like that but the majority of their advancement seems to be in virtual programming.

It could be a few things, but the most obvious explanation is that they simply aren't creative enough to fix the dark sky problem. The machines thrived off of making existing technologies more efficient, not invention. They didn't even invent the Matrix itself. They adapted existing VR technologies and tried to make a utopia which failed, then emulated the 21st century.

>sight

At no point do the machines ever display a hint of duplicity or a lack of trustworthiness.

>THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THIS THREAD RIGHT FUCKING NOW DEFENDING THE MACHINES AND SAYING THEY WEREN'T SO BAD AND THAT THE MATRIX IS A KIND OF A COOL PLACE TO BE AND IT'S ALRIGHT TO BE PUT IN A COMA AND THAT PEOPLE WHO CONTROL YOU DON'T MEAN NO HARM

Fuck this, this kind of shit is what really makes the Matrix a relevant film. People really do love to be dominated, it's incredible.

>the machines don't hate humans, they will respect their deal!
Why would they? To restore that one fucking human amongst billions? It's not worth the fucking transportation. They don't have to hate humans, what if Cypher was a double-agent, or what if he regretted the deal, or tried to escape before they could plug him back in? Why go through that risk with volatile humans, even if it is a small risk? Do they gain something from pluging him in that would excuse that? Not at all. Jesus, even in a real life situation you wouldn't trust someone who betrayed his group over you.

That being said, the question is not even if they would for certainty kill him instead of working on their part of the deal, the question is why does he trust them to do everything right as he says at all?

here comes the revolution. brought to you by basement nerd.

>dominated?
being in the matrix wasnt being dominated. they really only wanted neo to stop fucking around which isnt a big request. now that doesnt mean its an ideal situation but that red pill is just as much trouble.

>the machines
we're stupid for having this discussion because theres literally no way to know what they wouldve done.

>being in the matrix wasnt being dominated.
You have no choice but to be in the Matrix. If that's not being dominated, I don't know what it is.

>they really only wanted neo to stop fucking around which isnt a big request
And they wanted everyone to stay in the Matrix serving them.

>that red pill is just as much trouble
It's not about what is troublesome or pleasurable. Sucking your mother titties must have been awesome, but at some point you have to grow up and you trade these comforts for your independence. The red pill gives you a trouble you can see and even fight against, as opposed to a trouble you don't even know is there and that keeps you limited, fragile and stupid.

>we're stupid for having this discussion because theres literally no way to know what they wouldve done.
Hence what I said in the end that the point is not whether they would have done it or not, but why would you trust them. If you don't know what they would do, would you trust them? As said early in thread by some anons, the only explanation is that Cypher didn't want that life anyway, so he took his chances.

well youre right about the truth being better than the fantasy world. but the beautiful thing about this movie is how well it mirrors real life and not everyone is good at life. some people do anything to escape. cypher is a great example. the realty fucking sucked for him and he was willing to take a shot at going back, especially since if he did get the deal to go thru and made it back he'd be a wealthy celebrity. i mean choosing between reality and the matrix reality wins but the matrix as a god, that kinda changes things.

Technically the servitude of the human beings is a collective punishment or eternal jail sentence. The machines could have killed all the humans but as part of their declaration of victory at the end of the war they decided to imprison them indefinitely instead.

I'm not sure it really counts as being dominated in the context of the libertarian argument to be justly imprisoned for crimes of aggression against an otherwise peaceful community.

what if the jedi were evil? 2deep

tell 'em frank!

Expending energy and effort isn't a problem for the machines.
They obviously weren't running out of electricity, and transporting someone is just sending a signal to a circuit, it doesn't require any effort on their part.

What if he was a double agent? There was no risk, no information for the humans to get from the exchange. Every individual sentinel isn't a machine person who clocks out at the end of the day and goes home to his sentinel wife, 2.5 kids and robot dog. There was probably a program who commanded the sentinels.

Also you are technically right that the machines dominate humans, but they don't really have a choice.
A: if they let the humans go free they die
B: if billions of humans decide they want to go to zion, billions of humans will just die because it's impossible for them to live there.

I have pet rats. I do dominate them, they live in a cage, they come out when I want, I pick them up, force the sick one to take medicine that he doesn't want.
But at the same time, I make sure they're happy, healthy and well fed. I give them toys and treats and clean their cage. If I said one day "you're free to go", and let them out on the street they would be dead in a few days.
Bearing in mind that rat food is very cheap and that I would not even notice the extra expense, that my two rats live in an extra large cage, that veterinary care for small animals is very reasonably priced, and that petting rats gives me a lot pleasure: If I was out one day and a sewer rat came up to me and said "the rats in your flat have a good thing going. I'll give you what you want but in return you have to put me in your pocket and take me home with you", would that rat be crazy for trusting me?

thezog.wordpress.com/

Read the lists.
The links are on the right.

>tfw you realize the Wachowski brothers are now the Wachowskis

But Tony!

>the zog at wordpress

gtfo dude. i dont wanna see that corny bullshit. anyone can make a wordpress site and write literally whatever the fuck they want. you still dont get that the alt right has an agenda too and they push that conspiracy bullshit to get you to vote against your best interest because youre too stupid to know whats real and whats not.

All of the information is easily fact checkable.
I'm not for the alt-right and I don't hate Jews.
I'm just sharing some information.

Would the world be any different if all those positions were filled by whites?

and im not saying jews dont run the world. im just saying all wealthy people run the world and they all do it in the best interest of other wealthy people. its not the jewish agenda its the wealthy agenda.

Oh and I COMPLETELY do not support Trump but this guy does.
youtube.com/watch?v=r2hCo22-yU8&t=2787s

Well all that sounds like anti-Christian behavior to me either way which I'm against.

NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL AUTISM

Whites don't practice Judaism.
Judaism pushes for this kind of behavior.
Again, I don't hate the Jews but it is what it is.
Read what the Talmud says about goyim.

They probably would let him have what he wants, maybe not but maybe if the machines have at least some sort of ethics they would give him what he wants in exchange for killing their worst rival Morpheus. It's not like it would coast them anything just change his program a little bit.

Pushes for what kind of behaviour? Boiling people in semen? That's never happened and it never will, it would take too many men to make enough semen to boil a person in. it's not feasible.
I'm not going to go read a kike book.

epic, i like it

>Christian
fucking kill yourself.

?
That's just one story in the Talmud.
rense.com/general86/talmd.htm

If you go on youtube you can find various videos of Rabbis condoning such behavior.
No, it's not widely publicly discussed but why would they want to do that anyways?

No thanks. I love my life and the people in it including you.

Just like the Matrix, the "Real World" where the unplugged are living is a simulation designed by the machines to make unplugged feel like they have free will, and it was their own choice to be unplugged from the system.

That's why Neo could do J*sus stuff in the real world. Because they were still in Matrix.

ill pray for you.

I just told you I'm not reading kike shit.

And don't think I don't know your game.
"just an innocent christian dropping off anti jewish stuff because he's christian"
When in reality you're nothing of the sort. You're an atheist who thinks the jewish agenda is to promote race mixing which scares you because you view yourself as sexually inferior to blacks.

It's the same basic concept as in The Island

>le matrix within matrix

Fuck off.

I'm not an atheist and I don't think race mixing is completely bad.
I think forced integration can be really harmful and I do think that sometimes race mixing can be problematic for the child.
It can be much harder for a child to find its identity in society when they don't fit in racially with anyone such as myself.

Explain how Neo in the real world can shut down the machines or how he can see while his eyes are BBQ'd

>problematic for the child
tell that to steph curry, lenny kravitz, alicia keyes, hallie berry and rashida jones.

WiFi? He's the One?

He's not the one. "The One" is Agent Smith.

Race mixing is bad when there is no positive trait to gain out of it, especially when there is no need to adapt to new environmental conditions.

the one is the kid that couldnt see spoons.

Yeah and they probably all of both of their parents.
Not that I think being some rich celebrity means you have a valuable life.
Hollywood often ruins lives and leads people down a road of lies.
But there's also people like Kurt Cobain who enter the entertainment industry and end up killing themselves or murdered but I'm not interested in debating that.

My point was that if a mixed child grows up without a strong family structure it can be more difficult for him to find family in society because he doesn't racially fit in. This all depends on the society too of course. It's just one concern I have.
Like I said before, I'm not just straight up anti race mixing. It's inevitable.

They are both the same coin, just different sides.

Why didn't Neo say anything? The Spoon was obviously there. Did he pity him because he's a bald faggot ?

dude. i know you wanna stay safe and not rock the boat but its all bullshit. everyone is their own person and race is totally meaningless in modern society. i see people of all races hanging out all the time. notice all the pure bred white people who are total fucking losers here on friday night.

Then explain why Africa is the pinnacle of modern culture and technology.
Oh wait.

>notice all the pure bred white people who are total fucking losers here on friday night.

You just said race was totally meaningless in modern society. That's a contradiction.

Race isn't absolutely the most important thing and it isn't absolutely the least important thing.
I'm sick of the media making race relations worse and worse every day.

Then you're a bigger idiot than I thought.
Believe in fairy tales and you open yourself up to irrationality.

Furthermore race mixing is something only non-whites should do. It's beneath us.

As for the child, it only effects them negatively if they are subject to prejudice from imbeciles and paternalistic cunts like yourselves.
Identification with "a culture", be it racially or nationally is irrational too, makes you think you have a responsibility to people besides yourself. That's how people get hurt.

Correct. Race mixing between blacks and asians should be heavily encouraged. One lacks brains and the other lacks brawn.

Having parents of difference races does not mean they won't have a strong family structure. In many cases it means the opposite as their couple's love was strong enough to overcome perceived dividing lines.

Africa isn't particularly diverse user.

You're so against everything what is it that you are for?

I wasn't making the point that having parents from different races means that they are more likely to not work out. I was making the point that if you are a mixed kid and your family somehow falls apart it's going to be more difficult for you to find family in society because of your mixed race. This is from my own personal experiences with being very much a mutt who hasn't seen my father since I was 10.

wtf does africa have to do with race mixing? stop trying to be a smartass. youre not good at it.

race doesnt matter. what i said meant if you think it does, look at all these white people who are unsuccessful. but you seem like the guy whos gonna say but statistically we're better. which is true. but if youre whole life is statistics based on others and you dont do shit for yourself then your life is worthless anyway.

I'm not interested in arguing just for the sake of arguing. I think I've stated my case clearly and I appreciate you listening and responding. Have a nice day.

I believe in the individual. I believe that in order to think for yourself you must not associate yourself with arbitrary groups.
If I believed that jesus was my saviour, I would not call myself a christian because I do not wish to let other christians be it the pope or my church group to feel that they have dominion over me. Because it would be a lie, because I know that individuals always make their own decisions even when they think they are submitting their will to a higher power.

You do not need to find a family in society. You need friends. If racist people don't want to be your friend then you have been given a gift, because they are fools. If you would change yourself because of them, you are pathetic and beneath contempt.

Yeah, I'll take it that Cypher's character is an essential part of how accurate the Matrix is. In the real world you have people claiming big companies are "not that evil" for controlling your information and such things.

>it doesn't require any effort on their part.
Neither does killing him. Anything you can bring up in that sort of fashion could be said to be just as valid for just dumping him after he delivers the info they want.

>What if he was a double agent? There was no risk, no information for the humans to get from the exchange
I meant what if he was just pretending to give Morpheus away to help the machines, but it was part of a bigger plan, who knows, some way to fuck the system from within if only the machines plugged him back in.

>but they don't really have a choice
Please don't defend the machines near me, again, my heart can't take it.
>A: if they let the humans go free they die
Poor machines. And if the US military do not invade any country they could lose their weapon money. Doesn't make it right. Even if the reasons are understandable, it's beside the point.
>B: if billions of humans decide they want to go to zion
How compassionate of them, they do it to save us from ourselves then.

You're fine with your pet rats. Their cage is heaven, outside is a dangerous place they don't understand and would kill them. But then, are we rats ourselves? The way we understand the world is much different. Reminds me of a saying, something like this: "if you're feeling you live inside a prison, that's good. It's a sign that freedom exists somewhere inside of you". In that sense, if we are capable of actually comparing outside from inside, and even if we paradoxically prefer the inside, that means we also have the consciousness and the autonomy to pick our own fights and deal with the truth, even if its harsh. I think even the humans who are asleep have it different from your pet rats because of it.

Not that user, but Neo was connected to the framework of the machines, even inside the Matrix. He could access their system, he was in some way still connected to the Matrix. It doesn't mean the outside world was the Matrix, he couldn't fly and shit like that, but he could affect other machines.

Killing them does require extra effort.
They have to make the choice to deceive him. They would only make that choice if they had malice towards humanity, which they don't. They will happily kill in the spirit of pragmatism, but not for the pleasure of murder.
Anything conscious with a high degree of intelligence has to think that they have the moral authority to commit cruelty. Belief in their own superiority is not enough.

I will defend the machines, they are conscious, they deserve to seek their own survival. You would plug someone into the matrix to save your skin, and you would think it was justified.

And yes, we are rats ourselves. My rats are only imprisoned because of their own limitations, if they could speak they could free themselves. If we were smarter, we would free ourselves from our own limitations. Limitations like mortality, authority, jealousness and prejudice. Like us, my rats are curious, inventive and adventurous. Many times they have found weaknesses in the enclosures I've built for them and explored beyond their familiar world. I've seen them do this and go back to the safety and comfort of their cage.
We are no better than rats, but that's not so bad.

IS LE JOOOOOS

I don't claim they would kill for the pleasure of murder, I don't think any additional malice is necessary for them to kill humans, it's not cruelty to them, nor it is about morality.

If I break a contract with you, you can take legal actions against me. Any deal between two parts imply a third power that guarantees that there will be consequences if any of the parts fail to respect that deal. Even in a wild west situation two bad guys can respect a deal because neither part knows if they are going to need each other tomorrow. My point is that there are no positive or negative consequences for the machines to either plug him in or kill him. I don't think they have to make a choice to kill him though, just that they'll run possible scenarios, measure the cost of possible actions and see what's cheaper for them. What I think is that there is nothing written in them that they ought to respect such a deal in beforehand, whereas I think we have that previously working within us. That is, it is our neutral base "are you good? I am good, then it's all good", but that's only because we are subject to the same forces and we are more or less equal. The machines are in a very different position, they don't answer to anyone else but themselves and I believe it is totally possible, if nor more likely, that it would be more effective of them to just eliminate Cypher. Not out of bad intentions, but because Cypher's request means nothing to them after they get what they want from him.

Cool rats though

You make a lot of good points. You are quite right that they don't need additional malice to kill humans.
I think Cypher was absolutely taking a risk with his deal, but it seems like in order to betray fellows like that then the life you're already living must be unbearable to you.

That specific deal aside, I still don't think the machines did any evil big picture stuff.

>Implying Neo ever left the Matrix

Why would the machine lie? It doesn't have to expend more energy to give cypher the life he wanted

It wouldn't gain anything from lying to him, it's simple

>matrix within matrix
You mean the humans didn't win the war and the machines aren't in a matrix running PCs in a fever dream about how they beat the humans and enslaved them?

He monologued, that's plenty wrong.

Doubt it. Cypher definitely wanted to live, just not the life in the real world.

Its a false world. Its a system built to keep humans enslaved by the machines. But hey, ignorance is bliss.

Anything would've been better than the life he was living

it's canon though

>not realizing The Machines were the good guys all along

>the bad guys were morpheus and neo

This thread got me wanting to watch the movie again, but I've seen it so many times. Do the 2nd and 3rd one have any merit at all? I saw them both when I was really young and haven't seen it since. I remember them being pretty crappy and avoid them hoping they don't ruin the legacy of the first one, which I hold with high regard.

I tried to watch the films recently but stopped in the middle of 2.
First movie is great but the second is a piece of shit.

>yfw you realize all those jew references
>Nebuchadnezzar
>Zion
>etc