Be Teddy

>Those ARE guests you utter fool.

Are you taking the piss right now?

Why are guests working for a host?

> it's Teddy isn't allowed even to die episode

His punishment must be more severe ah reckon

Explain why the bullets dont hurt the "cultists"?

I don't know why, which is why I said it's fucked up.

It's a part of Ford's new scenario so all bets are off.

Claiming they're guests is just an asspull, though.

Are you for real?

LOOK AT THE VIDEO.

The bullets "bounce off" the same way like when they shoot the guests.

Hosts don't always get killed by other hosts, like that milk dude full of holes, or the bald one alive after his head is almost chopped off.

Them being guests is literally the most reasonable answer. They're cultists, it's not too farfetched that human beings started worshipping an enigmatic host

Like I said, the scenario is supposedly written that Teddy can't beat them or shoot them and he gets captured for Wyatt, the guest chick could hurt them either

>The bullets "bounce off" the same way like when they shoot the guests.

We saw william get shot by a hose and he got knocked to the ground by a pistol round, by that regard a winchester should have them reeling but they don't even flinch.

The only person so far that has shrugged off bullets is Ed Harris

>enigmatic host
Dude, Wyatt is less then 4 days old.

If they're guests they're just having fun. They're not literally worshipping him.

Why is that reasonable?

Who pays millions of dollars to become a faceless henchman for a robot?

>the guest chick could hurt them either

Because theyre guests.

>The only person so far that has shrugged off bullets is Ed Harris

Exactly, it could be advanced players, which seems the most likely.

They're hosts

We've seen hosts that are immune to bullets before
The Man in Black is a host but Teddy's bullets didn't hurt him either

Why do grown men pay to be dominated by a women sexually?

Just because you dont like it, doesnt mean someone else wouldnt.

That's literally everyone in the park.

Everyone there shadows someone or other.
Like the people who hang with Teddy
Or follow the sheriff
Or go banditing with Muttonchops

strawpoll.me/11461697

The guests are all in charge, though.

We saw that with Dolores. The guest told the muttonchops that he wanted to do something different and they all fucked off.

>The Man in Black is a host but Teddy's bullets
didn't hurt him either

Got any evidence for that?

>They don't feel pain, they believe they are already dead

>Not "Now this is a fucking vacation!"

He was a host in the last movie.

It was a big reveal then too.

When westworld is in ashes, he will have permission to die

Were talking about the series, not the film m8.

Sure.
But most people follow along with the host' suggestions

If a bunch of guests volunteer to be part of mad cult posse, then it's what they want to do.
They could have been the people sent to shut them down or they can have fun being evil

Why do people pay hundreds of thousands to worship the space God Xenu.

People do weird shit all the time

No shit, but you're delusions to think that they took only the name from the Crichton movie.

The Man in Black is a host who has awareness.
Maybe one of Arnold's first experiments.

He wants to get out of the park.

Xenu was the bad guy, you idiot

Will a James Marsden character ever find happiness? It's like everything he's cast in he's typecasted as a cuckold

How can people get in and out of Westworld so quickly?

>The Man in Black is a host who has awareness.

Makes absolutely no sense to give a host awareness + invulnerability.

>He wants to get out of the park.

Its just as likely that hes a long term player and wants to find the deepest dungeon.

Look Im not saying youre wrong. Im saying that sofar, based on all the evidence weve seen, hes not.

Still a fun hypothesis.

Shrink rays and elevators.

My bad. You sure changed my mind that people will throw tons of money at bullshit

>Tfw teddy doesn't have the ability to just leave it all behind and run away with Delores because too much unfinished business

Teddy...had a hard life

Bethesda games are literally inspiration for writers, and you do nothing but errand jobs in them

>Makes absolutely no sense to give a host awareness + invulnerability.
It does when you consider that we've seen twice that hosts with malfunctioning programming react with near invulnerability.

The star crazy woodcutter and the milk obsessed bandit.
When their minds go crazy, their bodies no longer respond to the cues that they should play dead.

The Man in Black is a host.
It should be doubly obvious now that since we just found out that "Arnold" was a co-creator whose goal was to make true artificial life.

Teddy is like that random NPC that the designers didn't even bother to give any substance beyond being a quest giver.

They are not fucking robots you freaking idiot. They are androids. Grow a brain.

That's like saying "They're not fucking mammals, they're dogs"

This is what I thought. He has to be captured so he can meet up with his old friend.

Doesn't matter. That is what they are supposed to do in their version of the story.

Nigga pay attention, some scenes before Teddy explained that Wyatt has them so twisted that the masked men don't fear death and pain doesn't slow them.

The bullets hit them, but that doesn't slow them down.They're designed to be intimidating as fuck for Ford's new horror storyline.

Of course, they can't hurt the guests.

>react with near invulnerability.

No, they reacted with not dying, but still getting riddled with bullets, which MIB did not.

>The star crazy woodcutter

Literally smashed his head in.

>It should be doubly obvious now that since we just found out that "Arnold" was a co-creator whose goal was to make true artificial life.

Remains to be seen. Again, great theory, but no actual evidence. Just inference.

This. The 'can't feel pain' is an excuse by the writers to make the hosts invulnerable so he has to be captured.

OR theyre gets causing havoc.

You people need to learn the difference between inference and evidence.

It only takes one little change to code to make a host not die to bullets.

We already saw it with the milk dude. He wigged out and started walking around with holes in him no problem.

It's the famed new cannibalism quest.

>androids

Only the male-looking robots are androids. The female-looking robots are gynadroids (not to be confused with "gynandroid").

Host guns don't actually shoot bullets.

Look at William/White Hat being shot with a host gun and just having an impact.
All the "bullet" holes in hosts are caused by their bodies reacting to a stimulus.
They detect that they've been "shot" and then create appropriate wounds

What does host taste like?

Actually, it's just "gynoid", from the greek "woman-like".
Same as andro-id for "man-like"

No, JJ said all guns are the same and fire the same ammo (simunitions). There's a whole write up about this shit. I'm sure someone will post the link soon.

Honestly I just want more lesbian poncho guest, she's the only one actually playing the game right.

I mean, William is trying but he just picks the boring quests.

Like Teddy, Delicious. ;^)

We're theorizing about a fucking tv show.

Get your redditor "Uh, excuse me, that's inference and I was taught by Carl Sagan and Neil de Grasse Tyson that a true scientist only believes evidence." shit out of here

editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/11-rules-of-westworld-hbos-killer-robot-theme-park-series/

“It’s not the guns,” Nolan said. “It’s the bullets. We thought a lot about this. In the original film, the guns won’t operate guest on guest, but we felt like the guests would want to have a more visceral experience here. So when they’re shot it has sort of the impact. They’re called simunitions. The U.S. military trains with rounds like the ones we’re talking about. But there’s a bit of an impact, a bit of a sting. So it’s not entirely consequence-free for the guests.”

When the milk bandit goes on the saloon rampage he's malfunctioning but still has holes from the bullets in him, as opposed to the MiB who doesn't suffer any physical damage
Also the head of security has explicitly states he's a guest that gets whatever he wants

I forgot that "droid" was just short for "android".

Yeah and?

The hosts still react in a way far greater than what the fake bullets should do.
A "simunition" wouldn't blow off a hosts face on its own and we've seen that happen

>Also the head of security has explicitly states he's a guest that gets whatever he wants
He's tagged as a guest.
Which is why he's immune to bullets and why the staff don't bother with him

>Yeah and?

Mouthbreather.

So how did he rape dolores? Do the male hosts have functioning dicks?

Yes but does that mean Hosts have paper thin skin? No, they detect the simulated bullet impact and their body reacts

>Do the male hosts have functioning dicks?
Of course.
What would be the point otherwise?

Besides, he didn't rape Dolores
He did something worse

They literally do. Didn't you see the orgy?

Also I don't think he actually raped her in the barn

Obviously they have fucking working dicks, they have mentioned several times how female guests fuck the androids, get it together.

Thank God we have the creators to explain the shit they couldn't be bothered to illustrate properly in their own show. It's Leftovers all over again.

I don't think he raped Dolores, that's just what he wants Teddy to think. He probably taught her something she needs to fuck shit up.

>Also I don't think he actually raped her in the barn

Probably not, she probably had the first clue he had to cut out of her.

Worse than rape? In this day and age?

What did he do? Double-rape her?

>he needs everything you be explained to him

Found the pleb

>Do the male hosts have functioning dicks?
Prolly, I mean we haven't seen them but there's prolly some male prostitues in Sweetwater.

Still, I don't really think that the Man in Black is a host

All the info is in the show, you are just a brainlet.

Something along the lines of this.

What's the fucking point of going to Westworld just to fuck whores? you can get better, real whores for much less irl.

The quests seem overrated as well.

Because cultists are hosts cracking the code and realizing they don't have to act like being shot

MIB is a host trying to locate them and learn their secret

That's retarded.

We can't really assume what the real world is like outside of Westworld. It may be some space station, some Mars domed area, or whatever. Humanity may live in some sort of weird as society where shit like that simply doesn't exist anymore.

However, I bet it is more about T&A ratings.

Makes no sense.

Come up with evidence and Ill agree with you.

Is this your first show?

For fucks sake, the cultists are hosts created for the new storyline. They just can't die because their code says so.

MiB was on his quest before the cultists existed.

Remember that the cultists are part of Ford's new narrative.

The new narrative is about Ford himself.
Ford is Wyatt.
Wyatt is a madman who says that the world (i.e. the Park) isn't for the people of past or present. It's for people of the future.
Wyatt's posse cannot be shot (i.e. like guests), feel no pain (like guests again), and do terrible terrible things to the people who live around Sweetwater (i.e. both real guests and the fake cultists are really bad news for the hosts of the region).

So at the end of the season they'll just scrap Westworld and turn the park into Fantasyworld, yes?

>For fucks sake, the cultists are hosts created for the new storyline. They just can't die because their code says so.

Prove it.

>Be Teddy
Moar like Deadie amirite

We saw Ford literally update Teddy with that narrative.

How fucking dense are you

Retarded. What happens if they catch a guest, they just kill him and the guest can't do shit?

Your theory is dogshit. He literally doesn't have to prove anything just because of how bad your theory was

They literally call ed harris a guest when they consider stopping him from killing that town full of bandits

Westworld has underplayed the fact that anyone willing to go there to fuck robots would probably be doing really fucked up shit to them.

Because otherwise, as you said, whores are cheaper.

No we didnt. We FIGURATIVELY saw it.

We didnt see the code now did we?

Learn to make an argument.

The world outside of Westword is very different.

We know this because the retirement vault for hosts is an abandoned mall.
And, by all appearances, it looks to be very deep underground.

Why is there an abandoned mall so deep underground?
Something fuckey happened.

And that steeple we saw in ep 2.
It was buried as well.

The real world is literally buried around Westworld.

You're actually too dumb for this show

>MAKES A CLAIM
>DOESNT PROVE IT
>"HURR DURR HE DOENST HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING"

K, Im done here.

What? How can you arrive at that conclusion, what "evidence" is there to show it?

What do you think it's the bigger leap? That they're just hosts programmed to not die as a part of a new storyline that's literally shown and explained to us, or that a bunch of guests found costumes that relate to a new storyline they don't know and are fucking around and scaring people?

Jesus Christ.

It depends on how you cook them. Rabbit taste like rabbit, cattle like cattle.

he's not a person so i can't feel bad for him

Please go, you're spreading stupid theories that only someone who doesn't understand the show could make

It hasn't really "underplayed" that.
It's pretty heavily suggested.

The guests generally do horrible horrible things.
Like with Black Hat. He's been drinking and whoring his first two days, but he says he's waiting for the good stuff.
We're going to see that pretty soon, I bet.

And then Dolores will kill him

Uh excuse me, can you provide evidence for this "Jesus Christ" existing?

Keep your inferred """Gods""" out of this thread

That's because he's tagged as a guest in the main computer

Mark my words. He's synthetic.

>Please go, you're spreading stupid theories that only someone who doesn't understand the show could make

Im the one disagreeing with the fan-theories and asking for evidence you daft cunt.

You seem to not understand how to form a basic argument.

>You make a claim
>You present evidence to back it up

There should be an IP ban on American posters.

Thats quite some mental gymnastics.

>We know this because the retirement vault for hosts is an abandoned mall.
>And, by all appearances, it looks to be very deep underground.

It's literally the lowest sub-basement in the complex, below where the trains enter.

>Why is there an abandoned mall so deep underground?
>Something fuckey happened.

It may have been the original shop/get dressed/souvenirs/etc. promenade before entering and after leaving, before Mesa Gold was created.

>And that steeple we saw in ep 2.
>It was buried as well.
>The real world is literally buried around Westworld.

It's going to be interesting to see what gets unearthed when the giant excavator digs it up. Question is, is that the real world or was it an earlier iteration of WW that got buried (the show map depicts an area to the south that seems likely)?

fucking jej

>le Americans!

Proving my point. You're retarded, and don't understand that show that isn't even complicated. Kill yourself you snaggle toothed little bitch

>There's a "main computer" now

Kek

Exactly right

>And then Dolores will kill him
She'd better do it where no surveillance can happen, because even Ford can't countermand her being sent to cold storage if there's recorded evidence.

westworld seems like one of those projects where it looks like the creators are having a lot of fun making it but it's just not translating to the audience /discuss

Info like Ed Harris not being affected at all by multiple gunshot wounds that knock other people to the ground?

Thats alot of ad hominems.

Stick to shitposting kid.

Then she'll be a fugitive, be on the run for an episode, then the memetic virus will spread and there'll be bigger fish to fry

>Mark my words. He's synthetic.
The entire point of the show is the dawning of artificial consciousness, it's meaningless if some robot achieved it already and the park knows it.

You ever think that maybe he's wearing some type of vest? He's been going there for 30 years I'm sure he's found a way to stop the pain

Can anyone hook a nigga up with a torrent?

Live in a socialist shithole that has banned torrenting, and shut down our ability to open the torrent sites

FWIW Marsden was asked about this in interviews and said that's not going to be the case but he can't say much else without upsetting the producers.

>le ad hominem and hypocrisy

You have to go back to plebbit

"Let me help you" *aims teddy's gun directly at his own head*
But what did he mean by this?

>Then she'll be a fugitive, be on the run
There is no place in WW that isn't visible to the staff.

That's why she's running.
As we saw with bitchy QA and corporate muscle, they still need to get to rogue hosts.

They'll be chasing her and then Maeve will start spreading the virus causing all sorts of chaos closer to home.

He means he knows he can't be killed because he's a guest

Is Bernard working independently from Ford? It looks like he's doing his own research and doesn't want ford to know either

>be the only good character in the show
>left out of an entire episode

Bernard seems to be going off the books with Dolores.
Notice that he keeps her dressed during his diagnostics.

I'm betting that he's working on a synthetic version of his dead son

IT'S
L O S T
A L L
O V E R
A G A I N

>What happens if they catch a guest, they just kill him

Hosts can't kill guests

All this "ed harris is a synthetic" has made me miss shrink ray posting desu

Why not both?

The "maze" is the growing machine that unshrinks people as they come out

so one restriction is magically removed while the other remains

ok

There is no shrink ray you retard, it's a disembiggenizer.

But according to these airtight rules that bullet to the head would not kill him but it would injure and or blind him but who cares and guests can be shot by bullets (and injured in the park) because they aren't bullets and Teddy has a gun with these fake bullets specifically designed not to hurt people but he can't pull the trigger on Ed Harris because who cares.

You idiots need a fucking education.
The term is rebiggulizer

>magically removed

They're robots. There's nothing magic about it, the technicians just changed some code.

>robot
They look more like replicants to me

>but he can't pull the trigger on Ed Harris because who cares

I think he might have just been scared. I mean if you shoot a a guy a dozen times in the chest from close range and he doesn't even flinch, you're probably going to assume that he's some kind of demon and shooting him is pointless.

>They look more like replicants to me
youtu.be/S54LHlmAvgc?t=2m26s
Click the link, not the

Why would hosts be programmed to exhibit fear about normal guest behaviour?

Like, they should be programmed to say "Gee willickers, you got lucky pardner" when a guest gets shot and is no worse for wear

Teddy shot MiB multiple times with the nonlethal rounds, both before and after the event I note in the following sentence. It wasn't until MiB forced Teddy's barrel against his forehead that Teddy couldn't pull the trigger. I would assume there was some better-safe-than-sorry safety protocol that Teddy couldn't cross, regarding point-blank shots to a guest's head.

>I think

Annnnnd we're back to this show being a poorly thought out piece of shit.

You guys want to know just how kino this show is?

"Guest" and "host" have the same root in proto-Indo-European.

> Junior Ford's face opening up like a flower
holy shit

We also get to see the Woodcutter's ruined, crushed head as he's wheeled into part of the facility.

>Why would hosts be programmed to exhibit fear about normal guest behaviour?

Because the progression of the park has been one of bringing more and more realism to the hosts. Even the WW staff is murmurring against this evolution, but the goal is to give the guests the ability to do here what they cannot IRL, so to give hosts the ability to emote genuine fear and terror at a guest, if the guest wills it, then it fits the resort's goal.

>I would assume

Why wouldn't Teddy be able to pull the trigger if it's a paintball gun? If gets can get injured in the park by some gunshots how come they can't by others? Why can't you see that you are filling in blanks for a poorly written show?

Yeah, also why are the whore robots exclusive to Westworld? If someone wants to fuck robots, I'm sure the rich fuckers can just get custom made robot girls for personal use.
Like that episode of Futurama.

Because it's all part of the immersion. Like Harris says at the beginning, "you don't really win unless someone else loses". If the hosts don't act afraid, then realism is ruined.

>a show allowing unexpositioned space for potentially limited subjective presumptions by audience members = POS

k

Doesn't meant that WW won't turn out to be rotten, but you're painting with an awfully broad brush there.

>poorly thought out

Terminator: Genesys was poorly thought out. Most of its plot holes weren't buried well and the story is more confusing than exciting.

There's a difference between "I didn't like it / understand it the first time" and "it was bad" that you're either missing, or deflecting.

It's not providing enough evidence for why the world works the way it does
It's like Lost all over again

See

Because if they said that it would break my immersion desu

You can't murder whores irl. Not without getting into legal trouble, at least. Whores are also unlikely to be able to convincingly do an Old West roleplay. The point of West World is to live out a cowboy fantasy.

Wouldn't it break immersion more if they recognized that you should have been shot but weren't?

>Why wouldn't Teddy be able to pull the trigger if it's a paintball gun?
He doesn't know it's a paintball gun (and it isn't a paintball gun). He believes it's a real gun, and perhaps point blank it could do enough damage that his own programming below consciousness won't permit him to fire for the guest's safety.

> If gets can get injured in the park by some gunshots how come they can't by others?

Earlier point in the park's history before they used smart simunitions and it was closer to dum-dums.

>It's not providing enough evidence for why the world works the way it does

Yes it is. We're told repeatedly that hosts can't harm guests, and we're shown it as well. Teddy shooting at MiB with the fake bullets can't harm him, so it's permitted. Teddy shooting at MiB in the head from close up would probably harm him, so it's not permitted. It's the same reason that no guest ever gets shot in the eyes, mouth, or genitals.

Those are all just anecdotal evidences

>It's not providing enough evidence for why the world works the way it does
There's more than enough lore being presented for the audience to fill in the blanks and/or suspensefully wait for the missing parts.

> It's like Lost all over again

I knew from the first two episodes of LOST that the showrunners had no idea where this was going and as the season progressed larding more and more "mysteries" on top of one another that they didn't know either. I'm not an expert but I remember ALIAS and this is not like either of those shows even if it seems that way to you.

Not if you're an RP master like the MiB who has the whole maze designed just for him to satiate his mystery adventure quest line fantasty

Because it's not JUST about the robots, it's about having fun in the Wild West setting.

>You can't murder whores irl

This. It's strongly implied that most of the guests do seriously fucked up shit to the hosts. But since this isn't game of thrones that's left mostly up to the imagination. If George R Martin was writing this show, Dolores would have been raped and tortured several times by now (instead of just once).

it could be william being a weak bitch OR he's roleplaying and trying to make his experience more realistic.

That's not what anecdotal evidence means.

The masked guys are guests

Are you just inferring that or can you provide evidence?

The best thing about this show is how Cred Forums's retarded theories always get debunked within the first 10 minutes.

>Those are all just anecdotal evidences

No it isn't. The people who design the hosts say to each other that the hosts can't harm guests. This isn't just something people are assuming based on MiB not getting hurt when he got shot, it's based on multiple scenes where the people running the park ask for confirmation that hosts can't harm guests, and the people who designed the hosts assure them that hosts can't harm guests.

It couldn't be more straightforward. Have you actually watched this show?

>why are the whore robots exclusive to Westworld
Because Delos has a lot more invested in WW than just making Disney RapeWorld. It's not implied that this tech exists outside WW and I wouldn't infer it either.

>If George R Martin was writing this show, Dolores would have been raped and tortured several times by now (instead of just once).
Don't drag that fat lazy ass's name through the mud.

The show is far worse about that type of thing than the books.
The show has began to suck it's own cock about how edgy it is and so it does shit for just random edgy reasons.

It would be really weird if only Westworld had this tech, though. Imagine if Disney had UAVs before the US government.

>guy
it's just a robot.

You're confusing evidence with proof. The fact that Teddy couldn't pull the trigger on the man in black coupled with his facial expressions, the fact that Dolores couldn't pull the trigger a gun at all, the fact that a guest was bruised by a projectile fired from a host, plus multiple conversations specifically about hosts harming guests serve as extremely compelling evidence for what the posters are telling you.

MCPOYLE WAS KNOCKED TO THE GROUND AND BRUISED BY A BULLET YOU FUCKING MORONS

see

>It would be really weird if only Westworld had this tech, though
Did you even watch the show, Ford's history of the park as much as says so, otherwise they wouldn't be developing what they could buy.

> Imagine if Disney had UAVs before the US government.
What do you think Delos is doing this research making androids with implicit understanding of who to kill and who not to kill for

A mild bruise doesn't really count as harm, and either way William's storyline happened in the past so the rules might be a little difference.

...

and it happened in the past before the current gen tech was employed, keep up

> but prove that!!!

If you've been reading these threads it's already been suggested more than once

> but Dolores fell into William's lap after--
after something that her flowchart has happen on an almost regular basis, unless you see a smoking revolver in her hand it wasn't after she shot Rebus in time present

Think I'm getting tired of the whole HBO formula of having half a dozen or so concurrent plotlines and only getting a few minutes of each per episode. They need to write more self contained episodes rather than making every episode a cocktease.

It's made worse with something like Westworld where half the mystery of what's going to happen is already known.

Oh man, you used all caps and an epithet. You're right then. Getting bruised on an extremity by a nonlethal round at a distance is equatable to getting hit with one between the eyes point blank. Please forgive our thinking otherwise, honey.

> I don't like interwoven story arcs, it's HBO's fault

This has been the case in hour long network television drama with continuing storylines since at least the 1980s, stop whining like it's new or unusual.

Getting hit by a projectile whose impact knocks you to the ground and leaves a bruise on your body doesn't qualify as getting hurt. Thank you for confirming this is a moronic show.

Books have been doing it for ages

It's the
>Oh boy, I have to keep reading past all the shittier chapters so I can get a pay off for that one story line I like

>where half the mystery of what's going to happen is already known
Showrunners love suckers like you who convince themselves they already know what's going to happen.

> B-B-BUT LOST
None of LOST's writers are involved and JJ isn't writing or directing the show yet.

Westworld is how the future prevents school shootings. Just gives the kids an outlet

Knocking someone to the ground and bruising them is still causing harm you fucking idiot.

Oh, ok. You seem to have some absolutist bend going on regarding your semantics for the term "harm". I see. All this time, if we only knew you had this handicap, we would have stopped feeding you (You)s.

I know books have been doing it forever, I was marveling at the 19 year old who thinks GoT invented convoluted storytelling and B plots.

>Knocking someone to the ground and bruising them is still causing harm
What did Logan say right after this? Can (You) remember without looking it up?

>"man these girls you meet when arriving are nothing compared to the girls in Westworld"
>there's only 1 girl in the park that is on the same level as them, all the others are significantly less attractive.

Also for a park about fufilling your every fantasy, there's a distinct lack of body types, no Fabio types for the women and none of the women have tits that go beyond "modest"

And what if harm is realistically thought of as a spectrum of something akin to that between paper cuts and lethal, little diaper baby?

beta guests following an alpha chad host

But that's not the point.

I'm sure there are other places where you can get your freak on with all kinds of impossible physiologies.

WestWorld is about "realism".

>none of the women have tits that go beyond "modest"
This is inexcusable.

>WestWorld is about "realism".
Westworld is about the perception of realism. I know your quote marks implied this, but it's worth being more specific.

Oh so the robots can't cause harm but they can cause a little harm? Got it, smartest show ever.

If you find yourself evading the actual issue and focusing on semantics it's a good sign you've lost the argument and should stop posting. The show has slammed home that the hosts are allowed to take actions on guests which may technically "harm" them in a literal sense, but not actually harm them.

>Westworld is about the perception of realism
To quote the show, if you can't tell the difference, does it matter?

I agree. I want my Milena Velba schoolmarm bot.

But that's a philosophical question, not a literal answer.

Are you saying that makes the show dumb? That the hosts are programmed with nuance to balance between believability and safety? How are you even stupid enough to believe this is a criticism?

>which may technically "harm" them in a literal sense, but not actually harm them

Good thing the robots can tell they aren't actually harming people when they knock them off the ground with their projectiles huh?

> no Yviana plantation mammy
I'm dead inside but still feel the hurt

I guess you can keep using the same bait if you keep getting nibbles.

I'm not praising the show, but your inability to latch on to the fact that "harm" is not an absolute is bringing your intelligence into question; not the show.

How is it not a literal answer?

Hitomi Tanaka opium den mother.

Because perhaps there IS a difference that we haven't considered, one that matters.

You are filling in this "nuance and balance" that contradicts the explicit idea that the robots can do no harm on a message board instead of the writers doing it on the show. That's exactly why it's a dumb fucking show.

Steffi Tizzarella as a lonely single homesteader mom

They explicitly said that the robots can't harm the guests and then show them harming the guests, that's the inconsistency we are discussing. Sorry you can't keep up.

He is Arnold

>That's exactly why it's a dumb fucking show
Writers do not and cannot treat video game players with nothing but literal understandings as their core demographic.

It's called "willing suspension of disbelief," not "airtight worldbuilding painted all at once."

No one will cater to your needs. Adapt or go back to things that don't confuse you.

> BUT THAT MEANS IT'S BAD

No, it means you fixate on things other people don't which is why they can enjoy them. It doesn't mean you're smarter, it means you're on the spectrum.

He's Arnold uploaded into a host body

Could you imagine reading LOTR but only being able to read 30 pages a week?

>"oh great, 15 pages this week were fucking songs"

Books get away with it because you can keep reading and you get a steady narrative, be done in 5 hours and get a largely resolved storyline.

It really hasn't, the trend for 10+ story strands running at the same time, all of them completely unresolved at the end of an episode was pretty uncommon.

What you'd have was a mini story that would get told and resolved over the course of the episode (sometimes with a cliffhanger) and that story would weave in between series long character arcs and plots. You wouldn't finish an episode and think you have only had 1/10th of the story.

Who was the milk dude? I remember him killing people in the town but why? Who is he?

Get away with your SAO crap weebshit

The writers did do it on the show, they just didn't put it in text on the screen for people like you. The very first episode has a scene where Teddy fires multiple body shots at the man in black and then literally cannot fire his gun once it's aimed at his head. Any ambiguity in this scene is then dissolved when Teddy tries to teach Dolores to use a gun and she can't pull the trigger, indicating that she is on the wrong end of an if/else statement for weapon use.

I really hope you're baiting for your own sake.

They said that the hosts could harm the guests to a degree, to keep from breaking the guests' immersion.

We are talking about an obvious surface-level inconsistency on a show that is attempting to tell a deep multi-layered story. It's a valid criticism.

This is what I'm thinking. He does say that he's paying for it at the start of ep 1 though.

He is someone whopissed Ford off. Ford is making people he hate and placing them in hell because he has a massive God complex

>They explicitly said that the robots can't harm the guests and then show them

Knocking them to the ground with a bruise.

W: I thought you said we couldn't get shot.
L: Yeah, well, we can't get killed. Wouldn't be much of a game if they can't shoot back.

And again, this takes place in the past and it's implied the park got nerfed afterwards.

> BUT I DIDN'T READ THAT INTO IT SO IT CAN'T BE TRUE
Sorry

"Don't hurt this child."

Ok, so I can't shoot the kid dead. Can I kick the child in the head? Probably not. Can I spank it? Doubtful. Can I grab it's arm and jerk it backwards to keep it from walking into traffic? Even if the mark of my grip is still able to be seen on his or her skin several hours after the event? Can I take away the needle set it's playing with, even though it will cry and experience emotional pain because I withheld something it wanted?

I mean, you can try and humor the possibility that the programmers built in a comprehension of applying physical force/violence to guests that may be covered under some waiver signed by guests expecting an "authentic Western experience", and harm which would drive guests and business away, right? And, when the WW staff discusses said harm, they are using that as shorthand for the latter, yeah? Can… can you even DO that?

>uploaded into a host body
If the tech existed to upload consciousness into a digital form 30 years ago, why would Ford still be wasting 3 decades making automata?

I agree with everything except the idea that it took place in the past. There is nothing to prove whether or not the events are taking place at different times. Until there is solid evidence for that, it's only a theory.

Go out questing during the day, at night you get to fuck someone in the brothel who acts like they're fucking a massive hero.

That said, there's an extreme lack of incidental, non brothel love interests in Westworld.

And the subjectivity you speak of isn't brought up at all in the show, and there are contradictory things happening constantly. This is what makes it a poorly written show. It's not rocket science.

This episode hinted that there are all sorts of hidden checks to prevent the hosts doing something that could kill them.

Wouldn't surprise me if there's a limit to how much force they can use when they're within a certain distance of a guest.

>all of them completely unresolved at the end of an episode was pretty uncommon.
I watched St. Elsewhere and Hill Street Blues when they aired, and you're full of shit. Network television watched the brief but huge spike in soap opera ratings during the 1980s and TV producers knew instinctively that any ensemble cast should follow suit. Bochco, Kelley, Paltrow, Masius, Fontana all took this to heart once they realized the networks would let them do b-plot story arcs. And don't even get me started on nighttime soaps like Dallas and Dynasty.

You can try to say this happened later but history is not going to support you. Hour long drama with casts over 5 people are going to have long-running individual story arcs because those hook viewers.

>an obvious surface-level inconsistency

one that wasn't resolved within the 60-odd minutes it was told in, but guess what, episodic drama does that and it doesn't have to spoonfeed you with Basil Exposition saying "Good lord man, that contravenes what another character said earlier, certainly there is a conundrum here!"

That's because it's not subjective, but lines of code which painstakingly determine what hosts may or may not do.

No, it's explicit text on the show that's contradictory, not subtext. Teddy can shoot the Man in Black a million times and he won't go down, but he's still hitting him with projectiles that can knock you over and bruise you, but he can't shoot him if he's "actually" going to hurt him. It's shitty writing.

>Ford is making people he hate and placing them in hell
Then where's Arnold? Spoilers, Abrams has already said we won't see him again.

The entire show is multiple Basil Expositions talking to each other every fucking scene. I don't need stuff spoonfed to me, the show doesn't take the time to make sure it's consistent or detailed on any level other than the bullshit mystery one.

I'd love to see the line of code that differentiates knocking someone to the ground against their will from harm.

I have a feeling the contradictions you are alluding to here are the same ones you are trying [and failing] to push in all your stubborn posts above.

And again, I'm not holding WW up as some becon of show-writing, but to criticize it for allowing space for subjective assumptions, and encouraging the audience to think obvious things through doesn't mean it is poorly-written. We don't need a two-muinite conversation between WW staff about "I thought they couldn't harm" "Well, Becky, they can harm to a point, and here is a CGI diagram displaying the exact points on the pain/violence spectrum where we need the hosts to draw the line. We call it the Harm Alignment Protocol, or H.A.P. for short. Oh, and Becky, any time I refer to the hosts not being allowed to harm the guests, it should be inferred that I am referring to all forbidden activity listed in the red section of this fancy 3D chart, mmkay?"

I mean… maybe YOU need this kind of thing in your TV entertainment, I guess.

>Hill Street Blues
That almost always had plots introduced and resolved in the same episode. It may not have resolved every strand but you got a story each ep. Don't know about St. Elsewhere.

Again, the trend of interwoven plots and multiple season long arcs aren't new. What is relatively modern is completely abandoning the attempt to have a story told over the course of an episode. There wasn't a single resolved plot strand in the last episode of Westworld,

You're so dumb that you think differentiating between forms and degrees of harm is bad writing. You are the very definition of someone who needs constant exposition and spoonfeeding.

>Until there is solid evidence for that, it's only a theory

It's wasteful to have a story arc with no B plot behind it. The A plot is a guest's POV (since the main show narrative is either the hosts or the staff) but it's ludicrous to assume that with cocky Logan constantly asserting "this place is safe and predictable" that something unsafe and unpredictable won't happen, probably killing Logan in the process.

Assuming we're agreed on this, it's also the best place to bury the exposition about what happened 30 years ago without resorting to flashback. We can SEE instead of be TOLD how Arnold's cognitive model backfired with disastrous results.

> but why didn't they explicitly tell us it was 30 years prior

Because then you'd be waiting for the disaster in every scene instead of getting emotionally connected to William and his asshole buddy.

Storytelling is about revelation in the form of letting the listener unwrap it themselves, slowly. Ford even says so when he's berating the writer for making titillation without substance.

Foreshadowing is a delicate thing.

>Be Teddy
>Have my wife fucked by a man in a costume in front of me
>Oompa loompa?
>Buy into a B&B Room
>get ambushed by 10 men in suits
>beat all of them up
>tfw oompa loompa

>there are contradictory things happening constantly. This is what makes it a poorly written show

It's poor writing if by the show's end it's never explained. It's not poor writing if you had to wait a couple of weeks to find out because they didn't put it all on Netflix for you to marathon.

If a show has obvious contradictions and gaping contextual holes then it is failing as a show that is meant to be painstakingly analyzed and theorized about, which is exactly what Westworld is doing. The show is literally nothing but exposition and the exposition does not hold up or make sense.

Nadine Jansen, pregnant, as an innkeeper.

My point was that the robots are supposed to not be able to do any harm on the show and yet they demonstrate them doing exactly that. That's not a lack of exposition or spoonfeeding, it's a fucking contradiction.

But you're objectively wrong and multiple people have explained to you in a variety of ways exactly how and why you're objectively wrong, meaning your criticism is invalid.

Also some of the answers are gleaned through the exact opposite of exposition, like the fleeting expression of disbelief on Teddy's face when he couldn't fire his gun placed on MiB's forehead, illustrating that it wasn't his will but his programming which failed him.

Funny how this site has gotten so stupid that this person is probably serious.

>That almost always had plots introduced and resolved in the same episode
cop/hospital/law dramas have A and B plots. The A plots (investigations/patients/trials) usually get resolved within the hour and the B plots (personal lives of the characters) span the series.

That being said all of these shows had A plots that took more than one episode to resolve, often during sweeps weeks. No one complained and over time showrunners realized audiences weren't so fucking dense that they had to have every episode solve the case. It also guarantees viewers tune in the next week, so networks didn't have a problem with it either. If it were the 1970s, they would have objected because they expected all reruns and syndication to run episodes out of sequence (an expectation that only remains in kidvid cable nets like Nickelodeon now).

By the 90s the "A plot resolved inside the episode" mechanism became more of a "can do" than a "must do" thing.

The fact that you think Teddy explicit reaction to his inability to shoot the gun is somehow not shitty and obvious exposition leads me to believe you are a fucking moron. "Objectively wrong", that's a fucking laugh.

>If a show has obvious contradictions and gaping contextual holes

By the end of the series, yes. By the end of an episode, hold your judgment.

> then it is failing as a show that is meant to be painstakingly analyzed and theorized about, which is exactly what Westworld is doing.

That analysis and theorization is the process of determining WHY those inconsistencies exist, not being mad at them.

>The show is literally nothing but exposition
If there's no exposition, it's poor world building and ambiguous. If there's exposition, you complain that it's the only thing there.

There is no pleasing autists.
> and the exposition does not hold up or make sense.
See my first point.

The fact that most people who actually watch the show enjoy it is not proof they're stupider than you.

Funny how most of this stupid site seems to love your shitty show.

>you think Teddy explicit reaction to his inability to shoot the gun is somehow not shitty
That's pretty subjective, isn't it?

>i don't know what explicit means

>most of this stupid site
what's keeping you here, the attention?

How do you guys watch this show, on HBO?

Not at all, there's a minority of people discussing it. You can tell because most of the discussion is in well-written paragraphs with people sharing insightful opinions and theories. Soon enough it will devolve into nothing but contrarian single digit IQs such as you who like memes and whine about "bad writing."

>actually watching the show

Reddit has to leave

hbo.com/schedule/on-demand?subCategory=PMRS239894

I torrent it.

So, watch every episode because television isn't an episodic medium or anything, a show's flaws are never flaws because they are meant to be there because nothing on television ever is poorly written or has mistakes, and bad world building and shitty exposition are somehow mutually exclusive. And Westworld's audience isn't made up of complete morons.

It's called a dictionary fucktard.

Are you ruining both westworld threads right now or just this one?

I normally hate Chads but I feel like giving him a hug.

Sorry for ruining your precious discussion about the intricacies of robot rape and shrink rays.

I dont understand why any of the axe savages didnt get injured when teddy shot them. There werent human right?

>So, watch every episode because television isn't an episodic medium or anything

It isn't the way it used to be, it's more like very long motion pictures and movie screenwriters are jealous about the situation.

You're leaning on definitions to defend a position here. You won't be spoonfed an answer to a question within 60 minutes, and you can either relax and accept this, or be mad that your precious sitting looking at things time is being wasted.

You can lean on all the terminology you want, but no one's going to change the world to suit your anger at something different being put in front of you.

If the show ends without explaining anything, I'll be just as mad as you are, but it seems pretty obvious to me that they're following a track where progressively more information explains things, albeit in a subtler form than a lot of hour long network television does.

I'm the guy who hates art films where I'm supposed to glean the actual meaning from the most abstract set of events, so I'm not entirely unsympathetic here. But this show's not cheating you.

No it wasnt you dumb ass.

He walks up to the main character at a bar, (is clearly not human) mocks him and gets killed. Then he's even killed again, before the actual big reveal..... which is him (the gunslinger) shooting and killing a guest.

I don't really buy it that Dolores has been rape bait for black hats for 30 years straight. Most black hat autists would probably cut her head off or do otherwise irreparable damage to her for fun. Sure the black guy wants to condition her to some end, but I don't think he'd be able to get her to be repaired to that degree consistently.

I'm willing to buy that her AI hasn't been reset or wiped in a long time, outside of the daily reset. I'm not really willing to buy the idea that her robot body has been used consistently for that same period of time.

>I dont understand why any of the axe savages didnt get injured when teddy shot them. There werent human right?
The official answer is "we don't know yet."

The most we know is that faulty programming can cause a shot host to not fall down and play dead, but we haven't been told that hosts have any mode where they're intentionally immune to ammunition.

This leaves a couple of possibilities:
-- the cultists' backstory is that they're insane enough to shrug off bullet wounds
-- they're guests

This show is the furthest thing from different and it's repeatedly demonstrated that it doesn't work on an episodic level and is leaning heavily on the future promise of mysterious character backstories and revelations while doing nothing to make those things intriguing other than presenting them in the most obvious manner imaginable. Maybe you should watch some abstract art films and broaden your horizons, you might realize that you are latching on to utter shit.

>I don't really buy it that Dolores has been rape bait for black hats for 30 years straight

Everyone in the park has been rape bait for 30 years straight regardless of hat. Also, she's been there for longer than 30 years, she's the oldest host in the park.

>it's repeatedly demonstrated that it doesn't work on an episodic level

Again, your complaint is that it doesn't obey a definition you yourself gave it. Do you see the problem with this line of thinking?

>while doing nothing to make those things intriguing other than presenting them in the most obvious manner imaginable

If so, tell us what's in the maze, who the MiB is, what actually happened to Arnold, what Delos' endgame for the park is, and what happened 30 years ago.

And don't be wrong about any of those things.

>The Man in Black is a host
I sure as shit hope not.

One of my many complaints is that this show is poorly written, and the fact that it cannot tell a compelling episodic story in an episodic medium is a big example of this. I don't give a shit about "the way it is now".

>poorly written
>bad writing

Should be automated perma bans here.

Who gives a shit? Why does any of that matter? Why would me randomly speculating about bullshit have anything to do with intrigue? Why are random mysteries a substitute for actual storytelling?

fucking idiot

Right I forgot you can't criticize the hot flavor of the month shows and can only call them 10/10 and the best, and so deep and well written.

No I mean I get that, but the black prostitute chick saw the body farm where all the butchered robots were being hosed down. It's basically said or heavily implied that the robots get new bodies pretty regularly, but that specific programming elements like the reveries have allowed them to remember things from past bodies.

Dolores however seems to have the same body the entire time, which I find highly unbelievable. I just can't see them opening up her whole body for a nervous system update instead of 3D printing a new Dolores body and transferring her mind into it.

>you are latching on to utter shit
No, we're enjoying (for now) a show you don't, for reasons you've attributed to it not satisfying your definitions of how storytelling MUST work.

I hate Eva for many of the reasons you've listed plus some extras, but I also know there are a lot of people who think it's deep and it resonates with them. WW doesn't resonate with me but it does entertain me. If it stops doing so, I'll drop it.

>Why would me randomly speculating about bullshit have anything to do with intrigue?
If the show encourages the viewers to ask questions about that, that's pretty much the definition of "intrigue."

>Why are random mysteries a substitute for actual storytelling?
Have you ever heard of a mystery story? Where clues are gradually revealed to the viewer/reader over time? To some people, this has appeal.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_fiction

What determines whether something is "actual storytelling" anyway? Sounds like a no true Scotsman argument.

He doesn't dislike the show, he's just deranged with a totally empty life and the only validation he gets in his sad, pathetic existence is waiting for brilliant shows to receive critical acclaim so he can shitpost "bad writing." This is his life.

>It's basically said or heavily implied that the robots get new bodies pretty regularly
They've said the opposite: Delores has been a patch job for 40 years and has more parts of other hosts in her than her original ones.

>anthony hopkins confirms Teddy's mysterious backstory was nothing because they didn't care to make one for him
This cracked me up pretty good

Intrigue is about the manner in which you present mysteries, not just shitting them out and say deal with it. And Westworld is not a well told mystery story, it has glaring ambiguities and inconsistencies that keep it from being one, this is exactly my point.

Appealing to subjectivity, nice one pussy.

>Why are random mysteries a substitute for actual storytelling
That was a valid complaint for Alias and LOST. It was, and I entered this show with suspicion because Abrams was attached.

The thing is, I could tell with LOST *very* quickly that there was no underlying cohesion at work, and with WW, I don't get that sense at all, probably because the location itself is laid out for us as to what it is and why it's there and why the characters are there.

The mystery in LOST was "what the fuck is going on here" and with WW it's more specific: "what happened, and what's really happening with the hosts" which is a lot more solvable.

Oh. Maybe I just misheard that part or something but I thought they said she had gotten upgrades but had never been replaced.

Westworld isn't a brilliant show in the slightest, and defending it simply because it's the newest prestige drama from HBO and all the cool kids are talking about it will always be more empty than trying to discuss it on it's merits.

>Appealing to subjectivity
That's worded to *sound* like the name a logical fallacy, and yet it isn't actually one.

>I thought they said she had gotten upgrades but had never been replaced.
That's exactly what I'm saying. She was one of the original clank-clanks like Billy and Wandering Shota Ford.

The location isn't laid out at all, the characters aren't even one-dimensional, and "what the fuck is going on here" has been what over half of the running time of the show has aired so far.

>Westworld isn't a brilliant show in the slightest
This is a withering indictment of hour long cable television's potential as an artistic medium.

You really showed me. Lot of logic in "I enjoy it so it can't be bad".

People are defending it because it's a brilliant 11/10 show with near flawless acting, writing, directing, cinematography, and music. It will probably be Deadwood-tier when all is said and done. You can stay mad about that all you want, but you'll never stop being some asshurt neckbeard with pitifully shallow delusions of superiority.

Does it make you feel better to think that I hate the entire medium instead of this one shitty show?

>The location isn't laid out at all
Its literal geographic location is unknown but we know what WW is, who works there, what it does, and what guests expect of it.

The Island was a clusterfuck of layered conspiracies which got worse the more the show tried to explain it (an Apple ][ that requires a human operator to type in a series of numbers every X number of minutes or else the place explodes, a cloud of nanomachines that can turn into a bear).

There is a difference, and the angrier you get the less rational you can be about it.

Great bait mate

I said your rhetorical criticism was in the form of a nonexistent fallacy.

I said you're holding the medium up to a standard it doesn't really hold itself to, but I guess I needed to use plainer words.

>strawpoll.me/11461697
these are shit options. The best meme is GROWING BOY! and the mystery behind the milk.

>The best meme is GROWING BOY! and the mystery behind the milk.
They're literally born in milk. Also, New Walter better stick to that meme.

Hm. Well, it just seems like a whole lot of work to keep bringing her into the shop to repair or replace parts. I mean, I get it for the sake of the show they want her to have this unique quality but... I just wish they substantiated the reason for it a bit better. It's just a bit of a flaw in an otherwise really good show so far.

>the characters aren't even one-dimensional
The point is that the humans are pretty much one-note characters while the hosts are struggling to be nuanced. Again, sorry that had to be explained to you.

why hide their faces tho

What is "the golden age of television"?

You would think an amusement park would keep duplicates of most of their damageable goods, but I suspect it's dramatically necessary to have them not be that easily replaceable.

Again, you are projecting shit based on bad writing. Sorry that had to be explained to you.

Nothing on the show so far precludes the fact that it could be a giant version of the island from Lost.

they can just think he is a guest, but only ford knows he is actually a host, but personally i dont think he is a synth

A period of time which is largely romanticized by people in the industry. It had some good dramatic writers who came from literature and theater, but much of what was considered powerful drama then would be viewed as overacting now. It deserves its place in history, but it's not a bar for present television any more.

>you are projecting shit
If you can't tell the difference between interpretation and projection, I can't help you.

It's still the bar, it doesn't matter that shit like Westworld is praised in a similar manner.

>Nothing on the show so far precludes the fact that it could be a giant version of the island from Lost

Show me one example of LOST shrinking people. I'll wait.

>These poorly written characters can't be poorly written, it must be a meta commentary on the nature of robots and us as the audience!
>I could never watch a dumb show because I'm so smart!

Show me one example on Westworld that proves they aren't on a giant island.

>It's still the bar
Most of what Rod Serling wrote would be considered hamfisted by today's standards. At that point in history television was still emerging from the concept "televised theater" and not entirely its own medium yet.

We're including "I Love Lucy," Cronkite and Brinkley shilling Winston cigarettes, rigged game shows, and many other things best forgotten in that "Golden" period.

Nostalgia's a helluva drug.

>poorly written
Give me some examples of what makes them poorly written. Remember, the goal in writing characters isn't absolute realism, it's consistency.

underrated

The highest the medium achieved was last decade, which is what most people referred to when they say the Golden Age. And The Twilight Zone holds up regardless of today's standards.

Zero nuance, no personalities, no sense of history, no moments to flesh them out, no idea what their motivations are in any given scene aside from what they explicitly spout in dialogue, I could keep going.

>which is what most people referred to when they say the Golden Age
Where

>And The Twilight Zone holds up regardless of today's standards.
I said Serling. The most punch-you-in-the-face-with-their-message episodes were written by Serling himself, and it pains me to say so. It's not an indictment of the show or of him, but the satirical cliches made of the show are usually of his episodes. He lived a hard life and wasn't interested in subtleties.

On the internet.

Rod Serling is The Twilight Zone, what the fuck are you talking about. Not enough subtlety for ya in the show that still resonates fifty years later?

>no personalities
Hughes is pissy and sarcastic, Stubbs is uninsultable and a take-charge type, Lowe is consumed by tragedy and his desperate need to bring life to Dolores, Cullen is an executive burnout trying to feel anything, Sizemore is insecure about his intellect and skill, and that's just the staff apart from Ford.

Do we know their backstories or what it took to get accepted into WW? No. Do we need to in the first 3 episodes while so much has to happen? The answer is still no, in part because the focus of the show isn't them.

The hosts? Well, they only have the motivations and personality that they're programmed to think they do, and that's central to the premise of the show. They're ALMOST people, pretending to be people.

> nuance
We're getting that with William.

> moments to flesh them out
It's a balancing act because if it doesn't move the story forward, editors will find a reason to cut it. That is unfortunately how writing works and again, making the staff and most guests really deeply fleshed out starts to compete with the hosts who are ultimately the focus of the show.

>On the internet.
No one cares what millennials do to terms they barely understand.

>Rod Serling is The Twilight Zone, what the fuck are you talking about. Not enough subtlety for ya in the show that still resonates fifty years later?
You haven't seen more than 5 episodes of it and think he wrote all the show. Fuck off, illiterate.

>new tv show
>faggots come out the wordworks to shill their shitty old irrelevant show
Twilight Zonefags are the worst