Any Tolkien nerds here tonight?

Any Tolkien nerds here tonight?
Do Balrogs have wings? What do you think?
I have read the description of Durin's Bane many times but I'm still unsure whether it had wings or not, though I am sure that Tolkien left it vague on purpose.

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bumping with more LOTR art

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Yes, the Balrogs had wings. Read the description Tolkien wrote when Gandalf squared up with one in Moria. Pretty sure he talked about the Balrog unfurling it’s wings.

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Ok, so this is what it said. “ The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm.”

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It's a shitty answer. But I think it's both yes and no.

So I guess Tolkien never explicitly stated that the Balrogs has physical wings. But I think we can all agree that the best artistic renderings of them include a pair of wings.

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there's arguments for and against
what really matters is your own interpretation, if you imagine balrogs to have wings then by all means my friend. this is the gift of literature, the author gives us only so much as to expand our own imagination

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The fight between Gandalf and the Balrog is what I've read through several times.
I am still not 100% sure they had wings.
What do you mean?
>this is the gift of literature
I agree with that, but I was just curious about this particular topic for some reason.

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You could try reading through the Silmarillion. I know that Tolkien talked about them in there a bit too.

Not a Tolkien nerd. Just bumping this thread because fuck all the porn threads.

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Its vague and I think he did it on purpose. A Balrog is an evil spirit. Its form to the human eye would be indistinct. It's more frightening and otherworldly that way.
Also, Shelob is more evil than Sauron.

The mentions of them in the Silmarillion don't mention wings. LoTRs does. There is also major size differences. The one Gandalf fights is huge and breaks the mountain it falls on. The ones in the Silmarillion are twice a man's height. Maybe there is a heirarchy or sub species?

I have read the Silmarillion multiple times, the descriptions just aren't detailed enough (purposefully I'm sure) for me to really decide if I think they had wings or not.
I was curious what other's thought though.
Which way do you guys lean; wings or no?

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I meant to respond to you too, user.

Thanks user

I always imagined them with a pair of wings. I know that there isn’t concrete evidence to support this, but I like the idea of Balrogs having something akin to wings, even if they don’t use them.

>It's more frightening and otherworldly that way
I agree, and think that that is definitely why he kept it vague.
>Shelob is more evil than Sauron
Ungoliant and Shelob were always such fascinating characters/creatures to me.

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My opinion. In LotR especially, Tolkien crafted his words very well in the way he wanted to. Added with how "magic" worked in Middle Earth being more, elemental I suppose (not so much magic missiles and DnD fireballs, but Saurumons speech influence, elves and wizards control over the environment, etc.), I am under the impression that as the Balrog stopped, the black shadow that it brings with it "caught up" and began began to spread out from behind like wings. And if it did have real wings, they were useless otherwise it wouldn't have fucked off down the pit and pwned. I love the visual with wings, but I think Tolkien used the word to give the reader a visual on how the shadow was spreading from behind the Balrog.

Wings do seems more practical.
Maybe that's part of Morgoth's inspiration for winged dragons.
It's interesting to ponder.

Nah there were only ever just a handful of Balrogs and I don’t think the one Gandalf fought destroyed a whole mountain just by falling on it...

I think you make some valid points.

>stolen from lotrs wik Balrogs generally took the form of tall, menacing beings roughly in the shape of a Man, though seeming to consist or be surrounded by shadow. They used both a flaming sword, and a many thronged whip; and, were constantly burning, with all their weapons having appeared to be made of lava. Gothmog, the Lord of Balrogs in the First Age, used a black axe as well. Balrogs induced great terror in friend and foe alike; many who faced Balrogs referred to them as monsters consisting purely of shadow and flame.
The issue of Balrogs having wings has been long-debated in Tolkien circles. The use of "like wings" to describe the shadow around the Balrog is the epicenter of the discussion. It remains somewhat ambiguous whether they had wings, but the description of the shadow as stretching from "wall to wall" does not fit the scale of the Balrog in the book. The use of a simile also suggests that they did not have them; however, there is also a quote that states the Balrog's wings stretched from wall to wall, causing more confusion, as just a few lines earlier there was the aforementioned use of "like wings".[13]

Just referenced the Silmarillion for all mentions of the Balrog. No mention of wings. All descriptions focus on whips and fire.

Bruh. "Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is not that enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin."

I guess I am leaning more toward "no wings" now
I also really that Ted Nasmith's depiction of the Balrog that I first posted (though personally I would make it a little bit bigger).

they're shadow and flame. I don't think they had any solid parts, kind of just shapes and fire and hate. Maybe some big shadow wings come out of nowhere to make it more fearful mimicking bats it saw in the caves.

>I don't think they had any solid parts, kind of just shapes and fire and hate
I've never thought of it that way but that is an interesting point to think about.

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this is a quality shitpost. the wings were never called out specifically, and I didn’t envision them with wings until the movie version. I remember thinking of them as more of a roughly formed shadow flame elemental prior.

Ok, I’m glad you were able to pull that from the text. Now tell me where in that excerpt it says that the Balrog smashes an entire mountain just by falling on it.

Are you literally retarded?

Ungoliant maybe, shelob didn't seem to care

Problem with Tolkein sometimes is that he'll list a very descriptive breakfast that the Hobbits eat or the Ent's culture in paragraphs but will talk about a major battle in 2 sentences.

and no Balrogs didn't have wings.

Awesome thread bro.

That's because the battles weren't the maint focus of the story.

This. I love porn but goddamn it. Enough!

No, but I’m starting to think that you are. Nowhere does it state that the Balrog smashed up an ENTIRE mountain. He and Gandalf caused a big ol rucks and probably smashed up the side of the mountain, but it does not state that the Balrog smashed an entire mountain just by falling on it.

which one is balrog

broke the mountain-side

FFS. Could something twice the size of a man break a mountain?

He's the black Boxer is Street Fighter.

big fiery thing on skinny bridge

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here’s what mods should do, no porn THREADS. allow porn organically but porn threads belong in porn boards, of which we have MANY

> Could something twice the size of a man break a mountain?
No. That‘s exactly what I’ve been saying. Jesus Christ.

Nah man. Remember when that rouge mod starting deleting all the porn threads that one night? Faggots had no idea what to do and all the remaining threads where pretty much just dedicated to bitching about the porn being gone. Without the porn Cred Forums would be a desolate wasteland.

Is it your bedtime? Balrogs in the Silmarillion are described as twice the size of a man. The one Gandalf fought broke a fucking mountain. Hence

Lol try harder retard

It was more of a shadow that could take many forms, obscured by flame.

They have massive black dongs that they use to bludgeon their enemies.
t. I am a Toklein lore master

You mean the general looking guy with the cape and the red suit?

They also have sweet 80's band shirts but Tolkien wont tell ya that

There were different balrogs of varying sizes and names.

Goddamnit, you asshole. No.

>Do Balrogs have wings?
I'm going with no, since it never mentions them flying or anything. I'd imagine that, if they had a massive, impressive wingspan or the ability to fly, it would have come up.

pic not a balrog, but somewhat thematically related.

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Precisely what I am saying.

I do like the idea of ethereal shadow wings

Lol wut? Battle of Helms Deep was the main focus for the Two Towers? Or the Battle of the Pelenor Fields?

What I'm saying is that Tolkein was very inconsistent of his level of details and description.

I´ll see you Ted Nasmith and raise you one John Howe.

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I need to buy me a set, does anyone know where I can find a gallery of different cover arts?

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They were major events but they were not the focus of the story.

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Howe's artwork is so fantastic.
You can tell he really loves Tolkien's work.

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I´d go so far as to say hes THE definitive Tolkien illustrator, hell without him we'd still have those stupid fucking pterodactyl fellbeasts everyone interpreted them as.

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>without him we'd still have those stupid fucking pterodactyl fellbeasts
kek
good point

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I mean god i LOVE Tolkien and i get the whole "Sauron dug out literal DINOSAURS from the asshole of the world to give to his servants as mounts" and how thats supposed to be fucking neat as hell but man you literally created a world of fucking dragons and burning pissed of angels and then you resort to dinosaurs?

Good lord.

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In my headcanon, they always had wings, but after reading through this thread....my headcanon was probably wrong. Gonna' have to work on that.
But let's be honest: I'm just here for the pics.

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The text is ambiguous but indicates no literal wings.

But the illustration in the original D&D Monsters & Treasure booklet had wings. So I think a lot of folks interpreted it that way.

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Drop your socks and grab your cocks! Let's go on a spammer hunt!

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If balrogs had wings, why would they need to fly into Gondolin on the back of Ancalagon

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Battles aren't important as what the Hobbit's eat for second breakfast? Lmao..ok. Pretty sure if Saruman won the Battle of Hornburg then Sauron would've won the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

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>Pretty sure if Saruman won the Battle of Hornburg then Sauron would've won the Battle of Pelenor Fields.

Oh yes absolutely, imagine Sarumans siege engineers having a go at Minas Tirith.

Yikes would have had no need for Grond.

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How exactly did they end up on a mountain when they fell down into Khazad-Dum? I never really got that

There was a secret stair that rose from the very bottom all the way to the top of the mountain, wasn't there?

They climbed back up again, the dwarves had basically FILLED that mountain with tunnels and shit and one of those led to a stair well which led to the top of the mountain.

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At least THAT part of my headcanon was correct, then!

That's some epic shit. Thank you

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Even without the seige engines, there'd be fewer Rohirrim and more Uruk-hai. Still, using the ghosts was cheating.

Glorfindel, a powerful elf lord, manages to kill a Balrog himself back in the second age, although he dies in the process. I believe that one was just described as others said, a large man of fire and shadow.

Alot of dumb fucking Elves thought they could just "fight" Balrogs, just look at Stupid cocky little Fëanor thinking he was hot shit only to get his ball rocked by Gothmog himself.

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I like this the best. Maybe there are subsets.

I don't know if they have wings but I remember their being a shit ton of balrogs in the Silmarillion and might be information on if they have wings

100% this

report him for advertising

I'd prefer to track him down and serve up his balls as an appetizer, but I suppose reporting will have to do.

Pisses me off though.

porn is why we don’t have oc anymore. let them bitch about it. let them leave. porn is the greatest distraction known to man. about to make a thread about balrog having wings? nah lemme look at this bald pussy first.

God bless you user

Anyone want to hook me up with some elder days art?

bro this is wheel of time art

kek
yeah I know
I just wanted to throw some other fantasy in.

youtu.be/d-ELnDPmI8w

They vary. Yes Durin's babe did have wings. Balrogs tend to have different abilities.

>Durin's babe
I like that.

Durin's babe probably had a beard, but no homo.

i've seen these artworks before but not in this resolution and something seems off. what is it?

Why does Glorfindel's horse have a saddle? I thought elves rode bareback

If the Balrog had real wings, it wouldn't've fallen into the Moriachasm, duh.

"the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings"
There's nothing that hints at them actually having wings.

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I like it

keep that extra chromosome retard

Ghost didn't do anything but to scare the Corsair of Umbar..Aragon came with ta few hundred Dunedain

Sauron wiped out numenor, the greatest human civilisation in arda
Shelob poked at two midgets that broke into her home

are you perhaps thinking of ungoliant?

Agreed, if I recall ungoliant is one of the maiar but shelob is a distant descendant

Ungoliant is definitely not maiar. No one knows where she comes from.

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What a brainlet argument
>I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side WHERE HE SMOTE IT in his ruin.
It broke the mountainside where it hit, it didn't fucking shatter one of the mountains of moria

But the picture you're replying to is glorfindel taking on a balrog on the walls of gondolin to allow the survivors a chance to escape, feanor was killed just after he arrived in middle earth

bump

It says "like." I was taught that was a simile in fucking primary school. They don't have fucking wings.

Finally. People are fucking retards.

I want to consider myself a Tolkien nerd, but honestly my memory doesnt hold up well enough to cover the details he presents in all the works. The storytelling is what captures me though, even in the silmarillion which is almost a snore pacing wise, its kind of magical.

The children of Hurin might be my favourite, however i need to revisit it.

It's not the pace, it's every other character having a name that starts with F
>Feanor
>Finrod
>Finarfin
>fimgolfin
>Finduilis
>Fimwe

Oh yes, thats an obvious thing too. They kind of blend together at some point in my memory, unless i refresh it. I also dont ever read the Silmarillion cause i really cannot get through it that way, fortunately the audiobook is good.

I fucking love it, beren and luthien is the shit and the harn I hurin is goat tier
But when you get 3 of the f names together it gets fucking confusing

Finwë
Fëanor
Fingolfin
Finduilas
Fingolfin

Pedant

Faggot

Fuck off nigger
The smartest thing to ever come out of you was your boyfriends cock

This is absolutely beautiful! Thanks for posting

What a great insult.

GG Using the movies, dickwad.

omg... not this crackhead again... dude didn't even write his own lyrics and was pretty much gay lol him and suge actually

GG thinking gandalf dropped a mountain on the fellowship

I see him as a big demon like creature. Something near demon prince from dark souls 3, but with less bat features. So yeah, wings for me

>its wings were spread from wall to wall
>they passed with winged speed over Hithlum
>they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden

Basically it's people saying there is enough evidence to conclude they did, vs people who deny that a single word in Tolkien can be taken literally, even when they are unambiguous statements like 'its wings were spread', not 'its shadowy wings' to support the wings as metaphor malarky, not 'its winglike shadows', its wings. It's not the Bible, you nutjobs. They had wings.

but they didn't

Dude, that's Frodo.

>Do Balrogs have wings?

Logically, a flying balrog would just fly around Gandalf.

"YOU SHALL NOT PASS UNLESS BY AIR"

Of course, and Gandalf told the fellowship to use the eagles, right?

Did you know Gandalf can fly? "Gandalf came flying down the steps and fell to the ground in the midst of the Company."

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Tolkien did plan doing follow up to the lords of rings

the CIA?