ITT: A creator's relatively overlooked and underrated works

You know, I've never read Season Two and Farthest Precinct. Looks like I missed nothing.

To which I'd certainly The Ballad of Halo Jones and Providence, OP.

to each their own, mate. i only have a passing interest in Lovecraft and i am still enjoying the hell out of Providence, as i did with The Courtyard and Neonomicon. these types of stories aren't for everyone. i say come back to them in a couple of years and see if your opinion of them changes. if not, then, hey, Moore still has a shitload of works, including his recently released novel, which i have the sneaking suspicion is Promethea in Northampton-ish.

I think Elektra Lives Again may be Miller's best looking comic, there are some gorgeous pages in it

love me some weird Morrison. The Filth and Seaguy are among my favorites of his. i highly doubt these two series had the audience or print run his Batman and Multiversity series had.

I don't know I found everything after vol 2 to be pretty unenjoyable

damn. that page made me want to look for the series. i recall the first one had Bill Sienkiewicz on art duties? that guy's no slouch, either. thanks for posting this. it'll be my weekend read.

There's a review here:

eruditorumpress.com/blog/jerusalem-review/

I've read pretty much all relevant Moz accept that and The Invisibles.

I figured they were his magnum opus.

I am correct?

thanks for this, but i'm one of those weirdos who doesn't like to read reviews of works before i've read them. same with comics and movies. i usually hunt down reviews after i've read or screened the media in question. this means i probably won't read anything about Jerusalem for a year or two when i'll eventually get around to reading it.

I have no doubt that Providence will be buried in the future due to its publisher and how shit Neonomicon was.

yes. while The Invisibles feels outdated these days, The Filth still holds up quite well. however, i'd probably read The Invisibles first.

Filth is very well known. It, along with his Invisibles are some of his most famous works.

If you want an overlooked and underrated Morrison book, this would be it.

It's not that kind of review, because Jerusalem's not that kind of book. If anything, the review will likely whet your appetite. It did mine.

zenith is his best

This is almost as overlooked and underrated as it gets.

A Small Killing is very overlooked work of Moore's. Shadowplay too but that's not as easily available as A Small Killing.
Maybe From Hell to an extent.

It didn't work for me at all, but I just can't stand Lovecraft in general.
He's the "inventive but not really good" type of a creator.

well known, possibly, but is it as widely read as his superhero work? doubt it. as for his Hitler book, the page where he's dining with friends and tells them how his closet is haunted by a singer cracks me up every time. won't spoil it for those who haven't read it, but prepare for hilarity.

gotcha. thanks again.

i think the first book is kinda just mediocre. it's the second where things start getting good. overall, i'd place Zenith beneath The Invisibles and The Filth. it did have quite an ending, though, something i find other Morrison works often do not stick.

Yeah, that's understandable then.

I like to compare Providence to Supreme, in a way.
But instead of Silver Age Superman, Moore is working hard to reconstruct and vigorate the genre cliches and standards that Lovecraft was working in.

holy shit, you're right. i've totally forgotten about A Small Killing. i really wish Moore's comics career had gone and produced more original graphic novels than back to superheroes with Image and ABC, even though i enjoyed the hell out of those. but i guess he needed to recoup his finances after the Mad Love debacle. can't blame him for trying to make a buck.

>something i find other Morrison works often do not stick.
I actually just finished Doom Patrol, and well some of the run wasn't really doing it for me, that ending was a fucking gut punch.

There really is no one better than Morrison firing on all cylinders.

amazing ending. it's been years since i've read Doom Patrol. maybe i should give it a proper reread soon. i also remember it gets bogged down somewhat the further along it went, but those first few arcs were tops.

Hard to say "overlooked" or "underrated" but if you ask a casual reader about Morrison you'll probably get All-Star Superman, the Bat Epic, Arkham Asylum, JLA, Final Crisis, Multiversity, Invisibles, X-Men, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, We3, Seaguy and Flex Mentallo ALL before Seven Soldiers which I consider to be his best work.

About to read this.
Just ordered Rock of Ages and Ultramarine corps to read before on the recommendation of anons here.

He writes some great endings when needed to be. His Doom Patrol and animal man have great endings. ASS and hypersigil triology are very good as well. I'm a fan of his recent DC works, but they do lack an ending; instead they continue in his next work.

For me, it was the opposite. It became better as it went on. The Flex mentallo, second Mr Nobody arc were my favourites. Even the satirical issues pop up a bit later in his run.

Given that they even made a movie out of this, I don't think this can be classified as overlooked or underrated (it's just that latter volumes past 2 were terrible).

>He's the "inventive but not really good" type of a creator.
Ironically, this is Moore's own opinion of HPL.

actually overlooked and aged well over time.

>Everybody's read or have at least heard of Watchmen and V for Vendetta. It's criminal that the same can't be said for LXG

It's literally his most popular work after the first two you mentioned and possibly Killing Joke.

If you want actually underrated Moore comics we can talk about Halo Jones, Tom Strong, Top Ten and Providence (but not Prometheus which was weak outside of art IMHO)

I hope he dislikes Frankenstein too, then.

*Promethea

So true, at the start he had that as more of a disdain-leaning opinion...but now he's more in the "well, he's cool exactly because of doing that shit"

Personally, I think LOEG Vol 2 was a poor effort, too, and that subsequent LOEG volumes add anything to the concept that you can't get out of Vol 1, either directly or by inference.

What's the connection between Frankenstein and HPL?

I quite like the Romantic and Gothic authors, but found Frankenstein laboured and, yes, lifeless.

Frankenstein was a big influence on Lovecraft. Especially on Re-Animator.

The connection was supposed to be between my tastes and Moore's actually, as pathetic as that sounds. I thought I finally found someone who shares my dislikes for certain pieces of genre fiction.

I find Promethea hangs together better on successive readings. It probably helped that by my second reading, I'd read several books by Crowley.

I haven't read Frankenstein since my school days, but it seemed more grounded than horror fantasy HPL wrote and executed better.

What Romantic and Gothic authors did you enjoy if not Mary Shelley? If anything I appreciate her conciseness and ability to get to a point over someone obviously getting paid by the chapter like Ann "Whoa is that another gable? Better include a 40 page description of it" Radcliffe.

You're not alone: I had to study Frankenstein as part of my Eng Lit course at uni. The historical background of the book—the social, philosophical, literary, and scientific influences—was much more interesting than the book itself.

>I had to study Frankenstein as part of my Eng Lit course at uni.
You know why, of course.

I probably like Le Fanu and Poe better than any of their predecessors. They're late examples of the Gothic, but I value them for the way they took the mass of genre tropes and not only reinvigorated them, but compacted them for the short story format, so as to deliver the reader with brief, sharp bursts of the strange and the unreal.

As to the Romantics . . . none of the novelists, really. I have a lot of time for Blake and Byron, and some for Keats.

Sure, it's a landmark book and ties together many themes that were important to literary thought in that era.

no
but you know why

Underrated for both Johns and Powell.

Love this book yet is always outshined by other stand alone trades for Superman like All-star.

don't really know supreme is underrated but people here don't talk a lot about it

Gerry Conway - Cinnamon & Ashe

Len Wein - his brief run on Gold Key's Star Trek ongoing

Kurt Busiek - Superman: Secret Identity

Don't be cryptic, user.

>Gerry Conway - Cinnamon & Ashe
Man, that book's some awesome 80s goodness.

goodreads.com/author/3961.Alan_Moore/questions

Last time I saw Supreme mentioned was in Youngbloods reboot thread. It was
>Liefeld's creations are the best when someone else writes them
comment.

Woman author.

josé luis garcía-lópez is so based
when's that kamandi thing coming out where he draws an issue

Yeah, no. I'd agree if it was someone like Aphra Behn, a mediocre playwright who is notable solely for being one of the first British women to learn her living by writing; but Frankenstein was actually significant is its day, and had a lasting and far-reaching influence.

Not a clue. Also, he signed my C&A hardcover last year. Felt good man.

JH chase.

>josé luis garcía-lópez is so based
Truth.

>yet another female is mediocre at best
Really makes you think

>the Fisherman
>associate members
>Space Dominatrix!
jeez, maybe it's time i also reread Moore's Supreme run, too.

It makes me think the unstunning thought that there are mediocre writers of both sexes, and sometimes, they appear on Eng Lit courses.

Oh to be so naive...

it's so good

i do no think Promethea was a weak effort at all. the narrative did take a back seat during the exploration of the Qabbalah/sephirot stretch to pedagogy, but the dynamics between characters - the previous Prometheas, the superhero group, the killer clown, etc. - remains strong. plus, Moore's apocalypse in the final arc was quite impressive. however, i won't argue that it's Moore's best effort. i simply liked the way he introduced an entirely novel and intelligent dynamic into comics. not to mention that amazing art work.

...

Gruenwalds Squadron Supreme

Are there literally five people on this board?
I ran into you yesterday I think. Maybe two days ago.

Will the new Cred Forums board split do anything to get these posters off of Cred Forums or will it only get worse?

I have a huge comic collection, my man. I'm here to stay.
Currently reading the New X-Men omni.

4th poster here. I don't browse Cred Forums.
I found "really makes you think" meme on Cred Forums

That's one of my favorite comics pages in anything ever. Varley colouring too.

Zenith m8

I'm hoping it's just an extended summer.

i dug Zenith but i don't think it holds a candle to The Filth. Zenith is a good superhero comic, while i found The Filth had far better concepts, themes, characters, and art work. to each their own, though. is it lesser known? undoubtedly.

James Robinson & Paul Smith

maybe not lesser known...lesser appreciated? i'm a diehard Stray Bullets junkie and found this to be Lapham's best work when that series went on hiatus. shame it ended so early in its run and double-shame on Lapham for using the final issue as a vehicle to show his disdain for certain elements that made the run so short. it's still worth reading for those who aren't familiar with it.

any other Young Liars or David Lapham fans out there?

Nth Man - Larry Hama & Ron Wagner

I thought it was pretty entertaining, and honestly given the various interludes that Stray Bullets commonly uses, it fits right in as a spiritual arc.

Yeah the final issue was a bit wavish, but it had parts that landed.

Hard Time - Steve Gerber & Brian Hurtt

i've not made it to stray bullets yet but Young Liars is one of my all time favorite comics

try harder: top ten and tom strong

Stray Bullets is pretty fucking great.
Not so neon, but with the same charismatic energy

This or Johan's Tiger I think.

Captain Victory - Jack Kirby

I picked that up when it was published. I liked it.

>Yeah the final issue was a bit wavish, but it had parts that landed.
indeed. the interview portion is what rubbed me the wrong way. everything else was quite stellar.

do give Stray Bullets a go. have to read it in order, though. it's one of my top comic reads ever. it's hilarious, tense, heartbreaking, tragic, gonzo bonkers, tender, romantic, etc. it really does have everything. well, except color.

The last few pages left me kinda bewildered but unnervingly satisfied if that makes sense haha.

And yeah, Stray Bullets is just a long epic in a great sense of that word.
Hopefully we hit '97 again someday.

I wish S&R wasn't that long and we'd move on to other things. I'm starting to miss Ginny.

i think Sunshine and Roses is wrapping up in an issue or two. still no word on what's next or how long his hiatus will be this time. i also hope for a more modern setting, or as near as Lapham cares to make it to modern times.

if the lady in the trunk in the first issue is who we all think she is, i'll be heartbroken for sure. however, Lapham can always pull some narrative sleight of hand...

Honestly, Sunshine and Roses should have ended a few issues ago.
The "heist" was the big climax, and right now it feels like it's a bit aimless. Even in the solicits.

I don't know if that's because they like Orson or they're just stalling.

I just want the '97 story from the first issue to be the last arc. It'd be so perfect to have Joey become the new Mr. Sunshine.

Fuck, all this Stray Bullets talk reminds me, I need to buy fucking Killers.
I mean, I'd love to buy all of it, but last I checked Uber Alles costs most of my major organs and my firstborn child, so I think I'll just start buying the Image trades.

I still don't think that's her. It doesn't really make that much sense for her character, although I could see Lapham being like GRRM.

Why does this dude have his dick out and a cable stuffed down his uretha?

Also
>Matt Wagner'
So it's another illustrated novel?

I think that it's a nice dovetail if it is her, but honestly I'd like it if it was the girl Joey meets from the recent issue.

So he's not so crazy.

Looks like #19 is the last. Nothing was solicited for November.

They skipped a month 1-2 issues before.
We really won't know until December.

Either way, Lapham mentioned at the start of S&R that he has like 2-3 more arc ideas in mind.

>So he's not so crazy
That bus sailed a long time ago Dave.
Joey never stood a chance.

I didn't mean to imply that it's bad, just that it pays to read it over, and some knowledge Crowley helps.

I mean, he's nuts, of course.
But you have to reconcile what Frank says in that issue, and seeing the girl he met all grown up (and she had a hard life from what we saw so it makes sense that her life would turn out that way) could set him off.

well, in The Aerialist, men and women are all homosexual, so maybe a little bit of subtext there? the protagonist is an athlete who meets a woman who entices and excites him both mentally and physically - she's avant garde in that world - and i think if the story were to continue, they'd get together, be ridiculed, etc, etc. yeah, the concept is rather obvious these days but back in the early 90's it was quite novel.

also, what's wrong with text-heavy narratives? the beauty of the medium is that you can toy with it. however, in this case, no, it's not similar to the Orion Assante arc of Grendel.

Fair point.
Also I have to say, the first issue of Stray Bullets is fucking gold. The way it pulls your attention right away, the way it sets the tone for what the rest of the series is gonna be like. Funny, philosophical, violent and fucked up.
I really need to reread the series, the Amy Racecar stuff is a lot better after you know what it's meant to symbolize

"From Hell" is amazing as well.

It's a great start, that's why I was a bit disappointed we never went back to that. But it's a very smart move.
It shows that while we're getting all of these story and these struggles...nothing really gets wrapped up until decades later, and even then it's only a maybe.

I have to say that I think that "her" being the girl in the trunk could make sense if she ends up trying to get close to Harry to kill him or some such.

>I really need to reread the series, the Amy Racecar stuff is a lot better after you know what it's meant to symbolize.
Definitely.
I guess it's obvious to everyone that the "Lil' B" stuff is Beth writing stories in prison then?

Dumb question, but I read it a long time ago, so I was a kid: What is it meant to symbolize?

Overall it's just how Virginia thinks about what is going on around her.
The kicker being that the Amy Racecar stories usually are placed before the main thrust of the arc begins...giving readers a sideways glance of things to come.

Ah, see, 17-year-old me was just kind of like, "Duhh, so these are set after those like some years, right?"

Amy is Virginia's alter-ego, a character she made up. The Amy Racecar issues are, while exaggerated and clearly fiction, somehow also tied to the story that's currently being told and they're like a fantasy retelling of current events.

only $40 on amazon. consider that it's 40 issues or so and that's not bad at all. plus the quality of the art and story makes it well worth that price.

it's been a while since i read it, but i don't think there is anything in that first issue that contradicts that it may be her. however, it could be the other co-lead, of sorts. i still think it's ... well, her.

My favorite Miller book.

I would love it to be her, only if Joey succeeds.

Because, as time has gone on, it has been about her and Joey's childhoods and how they've been shaped by Harry.

It's just that Frank says
>She was Harry's girl.
which to me implies some sort of relationship that I can't see "her" having with Harry.

$56 dollars in my country, but still cheaper than I thought it was.

Yeah, so overlooked that even have movie adaptation

I found that flippant, and we know from Rose and Nadine that Harry kinda runs through them

>which to me implies some sort of relationship that I can't see "her" having with Harry.
plenty of in-story time for that to turn out to be the case. way i see it, it would be a fitting, and tragic, end to a very turbulent character. i don't think there would be any narrative impact were it simply some random woman. then again, if Lapham were to continue the series for more than what he stated, 2-3 arcs, there's ample time to introduce another woman and make that ending/beginning quite harrowing.

Let me show you how bad that movie was by comparing it with another terrible movie.

I'm not talking about quality of movie.

Cooke's Parker Adaptations

Wasn't there an issue where Harry Potter fought Mary Poppins?

Century. It was easily the best part of the book.

I wish he hadn't picked so hard on Harry Potter. I mean I kinda get his point about it being sorts fucked that it ends up with lots and lots of children dying in a school, but meh.

Who wears socks to bed?

It's been a while since I read it, but I don't think that was the point, user.

I guess having him job to Mary Poppins was supposed to be an example of how far fiction for young people has fallen, but, uh... I can't really think of what makes Harry Potter so bad, in his view. I can't really think of any legitimate criticisms of it he presents in the text other than the one I mentioned.

Maybe someone can help me?

Like I said, it's been a while, but I suspect a good starting point would be to compare and contrast the basic themes of the Harry Potter series and the Mary Poppins novel.

i think he may have been criticizing the culture of Potter more than the fiction itself. remember, the character is an amalgam of several similarly aged and similarly themed characters from children's fiction. one of Century's unsubtle themes is the devolution of culture and how fiction reflects that, or possibly vice versa. his gripe is the gripe of many a recent author. while the Potter series has been a bonanza for the publishing and film industries, it hasn't really done much for more adult-minded readers or viewers who prefer literature or, dare i say, mature and adult-oriented fare.

...

bump b/c great thread.

What a good advice. Thanks, wizard-man

LXG is easily his most overrated work

Truly a forgetten treasure of Gerber's storied career as a comics author

> is easily his most overrated work
No that's the Killing Joke

Fair enough

...

i dont know why he loves mary poppins so much either

I get liking Mary Poppins, especially the book version. He seems like the kind of guy who'd have a huge boner for P.L. Travers and her weird feminist queerness and how oddly imaginative those stories were while still telling stories.

I'm not sure what pisses him off about Potter, though.

Potter spawned the huge current YA movement and is responsible for popularizing adults reading kids books

Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent, etc etc all come from HP

That's asinine of him, then. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is full to bursting with references to and uses of children's literature. And if he's so mad that clinging to childhood stories is a thing, why bring in Mary Poppins of all people to clobber Harry Potter?

Childrens literature != YA

Go back to ruining /lit/.

Wasn't Volume 3 being scripted a year or two before any of that stuff really took off? Maybe he was more upset about adults placing HP upon the pedestal of unassailable elite literature, how it drew massive levels of attention, when it just above average books for kids.

Then why'd he pull so much from The Moonchild, when that's a far below average book for adults?

Bumping for interest.

>full to bursting with references to and uses of children's literature.
Surely the pertinent point is precisely the *uses* to which children's literature is put in LOEG?

Because Harry Potter is a failed Moonchild.

She's Metatron, a divider and fixer of boundaries.

ninjas

I loved most of this, but goddamn, the end to Mr. Miracle will never not piss me off.

i'll forever remain remiss that DC didn't go along with the hobo New Gods concept. it was just so damn ripe for a series.

the character is a pastiche of Harry Potter and other similar child characters, as details on reread will attest. the fact that readers think it's ONLY Harry Potter Moore is satirizing, quite heavy handed, mind you, has always irked me.

Maybe he shouldn't have made it blatantly Hogwarts with blatantly Harry's cast, then.

>"No, I've never read Diane Duane. Why do you ask?"

I read one book. There wasn't a wizard school in southern Scotland reachable by a hidden railroad platform 9 and 3/4 where a wand-wielding boy with something on his forehead deals with an evil Tom Marvolo Riddle and is friends with a bushy-haired girl and a redheaded boy.

yes, so you're saying readers can only comprehend what's overtly obvious and have zero analytical or deductive skills to recognize the Moonchild is an amalgam character? the fact that certain readers are stuck on Harry Potter probably says something about current comics readership.