How do you go from being the ultimate killing machine to barely being able to stand up to a 15 year old?

How do you go from being the ultimate killing machine to barely being able to stand up to a 15 year old?

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Spider-man has super strength. Radioactive spider blood.

youtube.com/watch?v=kgvoaBZ4PPk

Well they showed that he was physically stronger than both of them so I don't think it's a question of age. Rather it's a question of "hey this guy can stop a car in less than 10 feet."

Spider Man can lift 10 tons. Cap can lift 300lbs.

Spider-man is on another level. Even as a kid, he's head and shoulders above enhanced humans and could probably pull Iron-Man apart.

i think an ultimate killing machine would have a hard time against spider man

Is Spiderman stronger than Thor?

no shit, he can lift 10 tons, even more when the chips are down and he's flashing back to Uncle Ben.

thats enough physical might in such a small frame that it would be utterly fucking jarring to fight him, he could literally decapitate you with a flick of his finger.

>Cap can lift 300lbs.
Not true, he picked up that fully loaded motorcycle in the 40's.

This was the best part of that fight. After nearly two entire movies spent hyping Winter Soldier up as a complete monster in close quarters combat, Spidey effortlessly stopping his robo-arm in mid punch made me cum buckets.

I think so, yeah.

There's like literally no comparison here.

Cap's shield doesn't get dents from fucking grenades.

Spidey, short of Hulk or Thor, is probably the strongest being we've seen in the MCU.

This, it's established fact that he pulls all his punches to avoid splattering everyone he fights.

The only thing keeping Peter's power levels in check is that he's a massive pussy and he doesn't want to seriously injure anyone.

>That page where Spock realizes that Spider-Man has been holding back all these years and could have easily taken his head off in any one of their previous encounters.

Spidey can lift more like 40 tons.

Probably because the MCU is inconsistent as fuck when it comes to power levels.

See also: Iron Man.

not even close, Thor is in the 200 Ton range.

when i saw spider man taking on falcon and winter soldier simultaneously, and thinking nothing of it, i knew that this spider man was legit

when is his world of cardboard speech

Spidey is roughly 10x as strong as Cap
Thor and chill Hulk are roughly 10x as strong as Spidey.
Man of Shit is roughly 10,000,000x stronger than Hulk or Thor.

yes, Adult spidey can, this is kid spidey.

no, Thor is 200/300 Ton range.

Thor is Cosmic level.

But it's always well known that Spidey is pretty damn strong. I don't think MCU inconsistencies can come into play with that.

In the MCU? I haven't seen the Thor movies.

Spidey is about 20 times stronger than Cap, he holds back so it looks like 10 times.

the REAL strength of Spiderman is his speed and reflex's he's as fast as you get without being a speedster, his reaction time is literally pre-cog enhanced too.

There's nothing inconsistent about this, Spidey is way above WS's level.

cant spiderman stand a chance against cosmic level characters?

the gap between Superman and Thor isn't that wide.

and it pretty much evaporates in the future when Thor takes the Odinforce and surpasses Superman in everyway.

yes, because of his speed and decent strenght he stands more of a chance than most, his speed is the key, his agility is top tier, only time stoppers and speedsters out move him.

...

regardless, Thor with Odinforce is stronger.

His spidey sense also makes him ADD

DC characters are written with a Potato's grasp of Physics.
Next you'll be telling me Quickslav is nearly as fast as the Flash.

No, but he's way stronger than Cap or Bucky or T'Challa. He stopped a van/car from hitting a bus pretty much instantly. Combine that with his precog, advanced reflexes, his webbing, and agility and Spidey would be a nightmare to fight in close quarters.

How strong is Vision within the MCU? Where does he rank?

user Spiderman is always been a power house even if this is the 15 years old Spidey, thats the only explanation i have to why he can't lift the plane by himself the 20 years old Spiderman can fucking lift a building by himself

go fuck yourself.

he isn't, Quicksilver is close to Jay Garrick without the Speedforce.

Already basically happened.

He makes everybody else completely pointless. Wanda is the only one able to counter him at all and that's if he doesn't fight back

He's going to be killed by Thanos because of this

And in the future Superman becomes Prime.

Powerlevels are inconsistent. it's all a load of shit mate.

one thing i'd love to see in a spider-man film is him fighting 20-30 goons at once, show off just how fast he is

Fuck I hate talking movie power levels because people start bringing up comics where everybody pulls off bullshit all the time

>lifts up a collapsing underwater structure
>holds up the daily bugle
>WHY IS HE OP
Peter has always had super strength.
Is everyone retarded?

Sidenote; that could be a nice way to separate Peter and Miles; Miles is weaker but has invisibility and the stinger-shock thing

>Is everyone retarded?

Yes

>yes, Adult spidey can, this is kid spidey.
Peter ALWAYS had super strength
Adult Peter can lift a ducking building
He didn't get that much stronger after 15

youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE

>Sidenote; that could be a nice way to separate Peter and Miles; Miles is weaker but has invisibility and the stinger-shock thing

That's what I always thought should be the case, though ideally the shocker ex machina should be toned down significantly as well.

I remember a old Spiderman book where an assassin is send to kill Peter and after some fight and the guy making Peter reach the boiling point, he beat the shit out of the assassin and lift a building screaming at him that this is his true power and someone stops him.

anyone remembers this too?

>ducking
GOTTA POST ON THE GO!

No surprise there
I really wish Cred Forums read comics
Yeah.
The shock thing should be more of a drain I think.
I wouldn't tone it down power wise just adjust the energy and fatigue it causes miles according to how powerful it is.
Then make it so he can't control it; which means he can't use it often since it may or may not be the right power he needs at the time.

In the MCU he's one of the strongest. Probably one of the most durable as well. If he doesn't hold back, he could probably beat all the Avengers.

Is he strong? Listen, bud. He's got radioactive blood!!

This is true
I really wish autocorrect would learn "fuck"

this happened in a shitload of comics huh

I think it happened in the cartoon with fisk as well where he has to tell him dude...stfu I have super strength

yeah, but it was a train not a building.
one of those weighs about 75 tons

Aside from the fact that Peter is superhuman, literally everyone was pulling their punches during the airport fight. It was Bucky as Bucky, not Bucky as Winter Soldier.

Yeah, Vision is basically the MCU's trump card. Super strong, a technopath, and able to change density, and flight, it's a pretty OP combination. Wanda's quickly getting there in terms of power though. At the rate she's been progressing, by the time she gets to "Infinity Wars", she'll be unstoppable. You gotta watch yourself when writing psychics/telekinetics; power creep is so easy to do.

Comic spiderman can go up to 15 tons but is usually 7 tonner or it was in most versions since back in black he got a power up.

616 cap goes to the 1,5 tone range, ultimate was around the 2-3 tons, Movie steve is beyond that (and sucks)

Phisically stronger, fuck no
But given his power kit, unless Thor gets lucky with a thunder AoE he's going to get his shit kicked in

Bad guys are always pathetic after they turn good.

Remember how Quicksilver was hard to stop and then after he turned good he could get taken down by bullets?

>one of those weighs about 75 tons

Yes, and that's a writer being stupid and not knowing how much that stuff weights

Why is Pete such a crybaby? If he's so strong just knock the guy out, put him in a sleeper hold, don't just whinge about all the time

He has held up the Bugle before, though.

Name please? this thing has been in my mind for a couple of year.

So how much really Peter without holding can lift 50 tons?

Nigga, did you not see the helicopter scene from the very same movie that this thread is implicitly about?

Cap curled a helicopter.

>Cap can lift 300lbs.
Sure. 300lbs. Cap can only lift 300lbs.
You might want to check the math on that.

He's got like twenty of them.

...

Weird how Cap is so much weaker than Pete but all it took was a dumb flip to overpower Spidey.

...

Civil was was a total mess when it comes to physics, terrible all the time.

Thor isn't gonna feel Spider-Mans punches. MCU or otherwise.

Petes a kid with no battle experience

it could be 3k pounds and it would mean nothing to spidey

Spidey has to fight people like Rhino and Electro


Captain America fights Batroc the leaper

>implying
Thor would btfo spidey in a second. It's like saying spidey can beat thanos or hulk.

I think the difference is that when he's brainwashed, he's not pulling his punches. I can't prove he was pulling his punches with Spidey but for sure he wasn't trying to kill him, at that moment. When he throws that billboard at him then maybe he was.

Pretty much how it would go.

no idea, remembered the scene and googled spider-man lifting a train, could probably reverse image it and find the issue though

I remember he threw a jeep at an sniper aiming at him, but not the context

Not my point. In a thread that includes MCU Civil War, someone clearly hasn't seen it.

MCU Cap deserves credit for maybe 1 ton.

That sniper had just shot aunt may iirc.

Spidey is the flagship Marvel character. He is stronger than whatever threat he will ever face but never strong enough that he comes out of any encounter smelling like roses.

...

I thought it was always 10? Shit, I need to learn my Spidey power levels. If he can lift 40, then that's fine

Some characters are simply beyond him, user. Thor going hard won't even feel his punches, for example.

>thunderstrike
Opinion discarded

What fucking issue is this from? No one seems to know

>shows character bullshit jobbing

I guess Deathstroke is confirmed for being faster than light since that happened as well.

Ah yes, thank you

Like other user already pointed out is really inconsistent sometimes he lift 10 and he's struggling and other times he's lifting 50 tons. So let's said current Spidey can lift between 20 or 50 tons

>He is stronger than whatever threat he will ever face

that has never been the case.

Spiderman either faces people like the goblins who are so twisted they try and force him to kill them to subdue them and he has to do so without using all of his force but they make it difficult with hostages and such

Or he fights people like Venom, Carnage, Electro who outclass him in everyway and has to use his smarts.

He has spider sense. Cap and his murder Frisbee shouldn't be able to do fuck all

Freedom Frisbee, thank you very much.

Angry Spidey is best Spidey, you guys think the new Arc Slott is making could have some good angry Peter maybe the whole Gwen thing could be personal enough to Peter to go apeshit on them

marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Parker_(Earth-616)#Strength_level

>Slott
>Good anything

It's a good thing the frisbee didn't actually do anything but Cap's agility, experience and forcing him to hold a lot of weight did

Slott good ideas, bad at execution

the guy has story with potential

Is there any explanation why the captain isnt turned into paste when he blocks hundreds of tonnes of force with a shield that directs 100% of the impact into his body

And that potential goes to shit because, again:
>Slott

let me quote you user
>you guys think the new Arc Slott is making could have some good angry Peter maybe the whole Gwen thing could be personal enough to Peter to go apeshit on them
>new Arc Slott is making
>Slott
Your answer was in your question user

>Cap agility

Compared to Spider-man he may as well be a cripple

>tfw you get so mad you dodge bullets that move at 4000 feet per second.

it kinda makes sense i mean when the flash runs every thing stops right but that doesnt mean he still sees everything it was a dark and death stroke peaked his foot out of a corner

To be fair, i think that was when Eric was Thor. As in the power of? Hulk feels spideys punches too, everyone does. Personally, I like to think it's a leverage thing because of his ability to not have any of the force lost due to sticking to things. posting a pic of spidey fighting goddamn pre-crisis superman is hardly a fair point of comparison.

spidermans cgi looks like shit

Do you think the writers for flash just google smallest measurements of time?

What issues was this again

I guess having faith in Slott it just dlusional at this point, well i'll just read renew your vows

Yeah but angry Pete is godmode
Spider sense is precognition it's perfectly reasonable for him to dodge a bullet
Yeah I really hated that
It looked so obviously bad and out of place I was surprised.

Well Spidey wouldn't stand a chance if comics or movies or media in general could ever accurately portray the speed of electricity. There really is no way to dodge a lightning bolt unless your a Flash-tier speedster.
It also bugs me that the thunder you hear when a character unleashes a lightning barrage is barely audible. That shit should be LOUD as fuck!

because the shield is vibranium, which just magically absorbs kinetic impact

You could hit that thing with a cannon and the wielder would be fine.

Tony's dad in Cap 1 states that vibranium absorbs all kinetic energy so there is no transference into Cap.
Don't ask me how that works. It defies the laws of physics after all.

I think they made Bucky's fighting style way more defensive and vulnerable to bring sympathy and highlight the fact he ISN'T a terrible killing machine as Bucky. If they strapped him down with guns and knives and grenades in the airport scene like the Winter Soldier then it'd be harder for the audience to believe Bucky himself isn't that kinda guy and it was all the mind control that made him so terrifying.

Flash is so fast that he can feel the sword touching his skin and then dodge it. There is no earthly reason he would ever be stabbed by Deathstroke.

>Spiderman

You do know he is freakishly strong and has God tier reflex.

Spidey would stand a chance because precog telling him to get the fuck out of there
And while i agree, you can't have sounds that loud for most commercial releases, it would damage the equipment

I don't think he was faster than a bullet, I think Kraven just didn't know he has spider-sense.

Spidey has been dodging bullets for a while though, and he's faster than Daredevil who deflects bullets all the time.

Movies don't have to literally crank up the speakers. Just portray the characters flinching or covering their ears from all the noise. I'd be satisfied with that.

Venom and carnage aren't nearly as strong as spider-man, he just holds back because he doen't want to kill him, electro isn't really physically at all

I know Supes is tough but didn't Spidey slap around one of the Heralds of Galactus once in hand to hand combat? I feel like Superman should at least be shuddering or stepping backwards.

Spider sense only tells him there's danger approaching him from somewhere. It does not indicate exactly where it will come from nor what form that danger will take.

Venom and Carnage are blatantly stronger than Spidey.

its deathstroke let him have it

A guy that struggles lifting a part of a building has no business punching out a cosmic herald of Galactus. That's about as bullshit as Batman hurting Wonder Woman with a kick.

Because that 15 year old has super hero fucking strength on par if not above Cap's level of strength?

Why the fuck is this thread even still going? Such a basic answer to a stupid question. Cred Forums is retarded.

plus sensing the danger doesn't prevent him from ending up too tired to react in time. he doesn't have infinite stamina after all

That is wrong. Spidey has had to team up with venom to beat carnage who is stronger than both of them combined.

We're talking about pure physical strength here, not fighting ability, spider-man has been shown in this thread to lift buildings and trains, what have carnage or venom done in comparison?

comic books

Cap's actually stronger in the MCU. In the comics he's a really strong human, but in the movies he can be probably be categorized as superhuman.

spiderman has beaten hulk before

>Its one of these threads again
Just accept that since comic characters appear in a multitude of media produced by a multitude of people and so will never have any true consistency.

you do realize the only reasons Venom and Spidey "have" to team up to defeat him is due to plot convince right? Not genuine continuity. Carnage is more powerful due to his symbiote powers, yes, but Spidey could still hit him with a train or some shit and kill him. He just doesn't because moralfag and if Carnage died the writers wouldn't be able to use him anymore.

Like, try for a minute to view this from a logical real life perspective instead of actually existing in the fucking source material. Go outside, breath some fresh air.

They just google up SI prefixes and see the decimal value

>googles subway car weight
>42 tons

i dont care any more...i just hate wasting a perfectly good google search

To be far, this is Wally "Literally ran to the end of time in the matter of moments in order to escape the embodiment of Death" West doing this.

Peter describes his Spider-sense to MJ. It does guide him on how to react to it but he can choose just how much he allows the Spider-sense to control his movements away from danger.

Grim Hunt where they res Kraven by killing Kaine, which is why Peter is pissed

2nd part

In short bursts, Spider-Man IS a speedster. He can flurry fast enough to overwhelm cosmic entities with enhanced vision and reflexes in the realm above gods, but not for very long and only through adrenaline rushes.

And just to clarify, even though he's capable of temporarily overwhelming Superman in speed, it doesn't matter because his punches don't hit hard enough to add up to any real damage unless Clark is sufficiently Kryptonited. Peter has creeped up significantly in strength since the days when he punched Superman and broke his hands against his skin, but he's still not THAT strong.

Where the fuck did you get the idea that Carnage is made of Kleenex?

Carnage is not a joker situation where he'd get killed by his nemesis in hand to hand. Carnage is legit physically stronger than venom and Spidey.

the limits and extents of spider-sense vary according to who's writing it
yeah he did this to the Hulk when he thought MJ died in the late 90s

How did the witch beat The Vision? I thought he was retardedly powerful a and able to take on all of the avengers at once.

She kinda took control of the gem on his forehead and took control of his density powers making him super dense so he sank far into the ground.

It's a good idea to forget about powerlevel shit because I guarantee you the writers most certainly did.

Her connection to the Mind gem (maybe combined with Chaos Magic).

This. Wanda is telepathic. Via her telepathy, she can control the Mind Stone. Power over the Mind Stone means power over Vision.

Not that she needs telepathy to have power over him.

Or me.

>There will never be a Spider-Man a game with Symbiote Spidey and Arkham's predatory stealth

Actually they are about half that
That said he is pissed so he might be pushing his limits

That guy is dead.

Spidey had the alien suit at the time and he was pissed

calm down and read some comic books

Could she have been the reason Visions Mind stone went super nova on Rhodes?

Isnt the symbiote weak to fire?

This couldn't work because people would star saying that they're ripping off Batman.

this is sad because Spidey is really terrifying when he's hunting criminals in the night

I'm sure Vision didn't like his waifu being shot by Rhodey, so probably.

Hulk is strong as much as he's angry, or more accurately, as much as the plot demands.

The shield works in whatever way is narratively convenient at any given moment.

The easy answer is to just have Rocksteady do it. But yeah, Symbiote Spidey was legitimately fucking intimidating. Perfect for the Arkham-style stealth.

As much as i liked WWH, i still think it was pretty bullshit how Banner managed to punch Strange through an illusion.

But where is the evidence to prove this?

At this point it wasn't written in.

David Michelinie got the idea that the suits weakness were fire and sonic from how the Fantastic Four shook off the suit(Mr. Fantastic using a sound gun to vibrate it off) and trap it (Human Torch surrounded it in a ring of fire)
Before then it didn't have any major weakness, I mean most things burn and a real sonic gun at the frequency comic writers put it at would melt anyone's brain to mush.
Hell the first two times Venom was defeated sonic and fire were not used.

>Spider Man can lift 10 tons
>Cap can lift 300lbs.

Is this was MCU casuals actually believe?

I would be so mad if Paul Bettany only got three or four movies to his name.

...

Biggest load of PIS ever.

Cap can lift at least 1 ton.

>bar isn't even bending
Thats a top tier bench bar

>Symbiote Spidey was legitimately fucking intimidating

user any angry Spidey is intimidating, when Peter lose his shit and stop talking, most criminals just shit their pants in a dark night in new york a fast fucker crawling walls staring at you is terrifying

>That thing does not obey the laws of physics at all!

>it's adamantium, i ain't got to explain shit

Most haven't read anything before 2000 I wager.
Not really, read the issue and stop taking a single page as fact.

Didn't also the original symbiote give nothing to Peter? that thing just give him free unlimited webs and more anger issues and Peter already have those

They built it out of vibranium

Same reason Magneto can kill people by pulling out the iron in their blood even though the iron in your blood isn't magnetic: Marvel fails at science. Just roll with it.

youtu.be/9YX2XCyVVkE

What's this bullshit?

Could pissed off Spidey beat prep-time Batman?

Reed has built a machine for the Thing which is stronger than planet presser, so I imagine a couple tons ain't no thang

>one character has super strength ie strength that exceeds that which humans are capable of
>one character has peak human strength ie the most a human could have but no more
>on par if not better
Yeah there's at least one retard on Cred Forums.

The shield absorbs all the impact of any attack. Anytime Cap is knocked back in the movies despite blocking with his shield is complete bullshit

I mean he's 15 year old who can lift 15 tons over his head, with limited precognition and super human agility

No. Batman has gear which can take on the fucking Justice League. Spider-Man would be fucked.

It's bullshit.

Pretty much thse. Now Spider-man vs Batman no prep time, would get fucker there no way to surprise Spider-man

So can we agree that Moonknight is the marvel batman?

Since Marvel heros are allowed to kill people, why doesn't Cap carry a gun?

Almost pantsu.

No that was a recon.
The whole reason Spidey went to FF about the suit was because he was breaking his speed and strength limits constantly and knew it was the suit.

Later David plugged in with Eddie talking about how the suit held back with Peter, thus explaining away the critics of the time bitching that a human with the suit shouldn't be able to out class Spidey like he did.
It's noted as a recon because in Spidey first fight with Venom Spidey just assumes Venom is stronger because Eddie was a body builder

The 90s were an awful time for comic book writing

He did use guns back in WWII. But he really doesn't need one. He has a shield.

Yeah but Spiderman doesn't really have Achilles heel like the DC supers. The closest thing he has to that is sonic weaponry when he's in the symbiote suit.

And you gotta think that the spider sense would be a pretty good counter to Batman's Belt of Bullshit.

Wanda's powers are connected to her emotions, Vision's aren't. He was thinking of Wanda to the extent he could not fully concentrate.

Isn't the arm made of vibranium?

Why doesn't Daredevil use one all the time?

He uses guns, either when shit really hits the fan or during war, he just prefers not to use them when possible.

>And you gotta think that the spider sense would be a pretty good counter to Batman's Belt of Bullshit.

>this retarded argument
>again

Guess what's the first think any writer would come out? A device that mess with the Spidersense

Spider-Man is Marvel's Batman
they will never show him being beaten just like we have never seen Batman being defeated in any of his movies

Wheren't the 90's when Marvel almost go bankrupt? Also is really Venom stronger than Spidey today because i was reading space knight and Flash easyle beating Peter feel it like bullshit

Why though? He can punch through a concrete wall so getting punched by him should crush your skull anyways.

That's assuming Bats knows about it in the first fight

Dude, that 15 year old is Spider-Man with superhuman strength and 'spidey sense'.

>could X beat Y with everything stacked in X's favor?

No shit?

By not wanting to be the ultimate killing machine anymore.

did you not see that nigga curl that helicopter?

To be fair, Peter doesn't focus on understanding his abilities nearly enough to take his word at face value. He constantly ignores his spider-sense and is befuddled by it. It's like someone knowing everything about a stock car, but not its capabilities when it's upgraded, or that it could even BE upgraded. I'd say that one What If is a good estimate of the spider-sense, and even then it was still growing.

Yes it does.
Don't let comic logic trigger you.

He just doesn't prefer guns when he can help it, that's it.

>Weren't the 90's when Marvel almost go bankrupt?
No they went bankrupt it's why they sold the Movie rights to get restructured and on their feet but that was due to sleazy management however the comic bubble bursting didn't help

>Also is really Venom stronger than Spidey today
His power level has been all over the place, at the start he just seemed slightly more powerful, like if he pin Spidey that was the match. But as time and popularity went on it lead to stories where Spider-man could not beat him at all. Example: Spider-man 347 Venom kidnaps Peter and takes him to an abandon island to avoid outside interference and spends 10 pages just kicking his ass till Peter finds a way to fake his death.

>alien suit at the time
Which means nothing. The symbiote does nothing, or did nothing, to enhance Spidey in any way, nor did it heighten his aggression. They gave a weak excuse to the former in a Venom issue as to why it made Venom stronger than Spidey, but didn't make SPidey stronger. Even then, it should have only added Spidey's strength to Brocks, making him stronger than him by an extremely small margin, not that pure physical strength is needed to fight, but it helps.

But, you know, comics, so.

>breaking his speed and strength limits constantly
I thought it was because he was increasingly fatigued as the suit was taking him to fight crime during his sleeping hours.

This really is the dumbest complaint.

Then they ruin it by having him get overpowered by Cap.

>But as time and popularity went on it lead to stories where Spider-man could not beat him at all

This was the time where the more "brutal" were taking the lead right? So people complain of Marvel give in to SJW agenda, but they always being like this, they make their product of what they think is popular at the moments and just fuck up and lose money well except this time they're not loosing money

>I thought it was because he was increasingly fatigued as the suit was taking him to fight crime during his sleeping hours.
Yeah Im getting mix up with Secret Wars where Reed makes the first offer to look at it.

>implying Bruce and Peter wouldn't become besties

If he can tank the Hulk's punches Spidey's punches wouldn't mean shit to him.

forgot the image

Actually, Spiderman that time. If I recall correctly, was just wearing a black suit, but it wasn't the syymbiote suit.

incorrect

But yeah, Bruce is fucked.

also the symbiote never enhanced the host's strength until it bonded to eddie

While he was talking about technology I really think it applies to anything.

You are correct that most here grew up in the "ow the edge" comics and saw them as awesome but didn't see the generation before looking at it with distaste and feeling it was the worse kind of teenage hormonal driven pandering.
Now we are in a new age of trash, nut it's not the trash they grew up with so it's worse

>Then they ruin it by having him get overpowered by Cap.

But he wasn't overpowered by Cap. Cap outsmarted him. He beat Peter because used the surroundings to his advantage.

You know what annoys me with Bucky? He shoots with his right hand. He's got a fucking robot arm and Cap-strength that could let him fire a minigun with absolutely no worries about recoil, resulting in pinpoint accuracy, but he hasn't been trained to use his left hand for shooting when he was going through all the brainwashing.

What are you talking about? Spider-man loses all the time. He even lost to Cap in Civil War which shouldn't happen under any circumstance.

The only thing making Pete catching the punch slightly less awesome is it can't match the loud clang Cap's shield makes that is code for shit getting real.

Could Spidey beat Prometheus?

Spider-man gets his ass kicked all the time. He lost in that very movie the image is from.

When he webbed Cap, Cap jerked him around like a ragdoll. How's that not overpowering him?

>answering to obvious bait

even Batman loses all the time in movies

he would just call the Justice Legue

>what is leverage

It says right in thete that he isn't. He is holding a support beam. It's like supporting a chair with a person in it that is missing a leg. It takes effort, but it is not the same thing as just holding the person themselves.

no vision just couldnt concentrate.
i really wish they had included the beat down in TASM2. apparently it was just silent Peter curb stomping Harry.

Honestly, the perfect explanation for a lot of mutants is that their powers are psychokinetic. They just THINK their powers are tied to a specific thing(mostly because that thing was the first thing they influenced when the power hit), making the brain put up a mental barrier stabilising the power. So Magneto thinks his powers are based around magnetism/metals, and so can fuck around with shit that he thinks are affected. If he tries to influence wood his powers subconsciously tells him it's wood, and so his brain keeps him from influencing it.

Magneto is still broken anyway.

This is regarded as one of the most blatent dislpays of author not doing research. Google the term smvsfl.

I'd think that leverage against a kid who needs an excess of 25+ tons to rip him from any given surface is a bit useless.

If anything I'd say Peter wasn't expecting it. So new to his powers, spider-sense blaring when he doesn't know how to focus and go zen-mode, Cap caught him by surprise, which is a valid strategy. Kind of like knocking someone out, a cheap shot still works because they weren't expecting it and the brain ricochets in the skull because they weren't able to tense up.

It's a matter of experience and Cap knew to take what chances he could. Now, the comic civil war fight was a load of shit. All I got for that is that Peter's self-confidence is Ethiopian and he didn't think that he COULD win, and belief in oneself is extremely crucial in a fight. The mind is a powerful thing and if you don't think you can accomplish something, you won't. Peter held himself back, as per usual.

Well yeah, pretty much all the higher-tier mutants are.

>How's that not overpowering him?

In relation to Pete's own physical capabilities? No. Just because Pete is stronger than Cap, it doesn't mean Cap can't lift him. Pete can't weigh more than 160 lbs. We've seen Cap throw three times that weight in the past.

My generation trash suck at least you guys trash was sometimes cool loking, stupid even ridiculous, but cool loking at the end. My generation have Squirrel girl i know she's a joke character, but god the art is horrible and i swear that ht other squirrel girl weren't this obnoxious and some other all-new different chracters Kamala and Sam are good, but Miles is bland and boring, he has potential, but he's just shoved down people throats and Carol is just a cunt.

The only good stuff marvel has right know is the vision and Monnknight and this whole thing of this years of Marvel being shit is not because the characters are minorities is because they are bad written and the fact that people actually think they should defend this comic because muh representation is stupid, im a fucking minoritie and i don't give a fuck i just want a well written comic

I mean, how many times did he try to manipulate something he THOUGHT was metal, and failed? I mean, chances are. Magneto just became stronger, since later on he starts manipulating like radiation, and electricity and shit.

>radiation, and electricity
THE POWER OF ELECTROMAGNETISM!

IRL an ordinary adult human can lift a car when under stress and full of adrenaline. Cap can lift more than 300lb

Thor had defeated vastly faster and more agile beings than Spider-man.

>Spidey, short of Hulk or Thor, is probably the strongest being we've seen in the MCU.

Poor Nova, he can never be cool.

Cap can actually lift 2 tons

Thor did beat Spiderman in a comic, and it wasn't even more, that Spiderman was hurting him, as much as he was being gradually worn down, and more or less 'annoying'. He could've just flown up into the air, or something, but he just shot out a large...AOE.

Superman Prime doesn't exist anymore. Flash killed him the first time and Doctor Manhattan and his partners killed him the second time.

...

Cap fought Ulton one-on-one and survived, he can stand up to Pete when Pete is only fighting at a fraction of his abilities

Also Cap would probably have to go full Nazi or something for Pete to actually unleash on him.

It's like the difference between Cap fighting Tony and Cap fighting Friday, really.

IIRC when Doc Ock took over Peter's body, he punched Skorpion as hard as he could in the jaw, & hit him so hard he actually tore his jaw off. Otto suddenly realized just how lucky he was over all the years to be dealing with Peter at the helm of his powerset

People will say the shield absorbs kinetic energy.
This is incorrect, and physically impossible.

More likely, Cap's shield re-directs any energy it takes, and forces it outward, toward the rim.
This is why cap can throw the shield and have it bounce back. If it simply absorbed all energy, it wouldn't bounce at all, it would just drop to the floor.

Evidence of this energy redirection can be seen when Thor hit Cap's shield during the first Avengers

youtu.be/-KekWFB4EPE?t=22s

I can't believe I actually had some kind of hope of them having a good explanation for him not overpowering everyone in the Civil War fight. Instead he was just off-screen the entire time, apparently just watching everyone else fight. Like, I thought we'd at least get a scene of him getting flung away or incapacitated by trick arrows to half-ass explain it.

>Vision is conflicted because his waifu is now his enemy
There you go.

>Implying Peter wouldn't out-prep Batman and out-stealth him.

That's why I was excepting a scene of him being incapacitated by her while trying to take Cap out, or someone. But we didn't even get that. Just a "no he's not here right now, focus on these other fights".

>superhero movie
>physically impossible.

Brah.

Anyway, we've literally seen the shield completely absorb huge amounts of force away from Steve.

>This is incorrect, and physically impossible.
it is physically impossible but also correct. the shield should not work but does. it canonically violates known physics.

>tfw I just turned 35

no wonder iOS 10 seems like Satan himself.

If they're both pulling on the same webbing at the same time it doesn't make since for the physically weaker person to win the tug of war. If Spidey plants his feet there shouldn't be anything Cap can do to move him.

Robot arm may not have been good enough for precision until recently.

Why was this not an immediate cause for /thread?

That shit gets sort of knocked down when you realize Spider-Man's powers aren't actually Spider-themed. He had radioactive powers he himself themed like a spider, because the spider inspired him consciously.

I think it's the concave form of the shield that makes it work, with the force not being redirected towards the rim but back to the "point" of the shield. When cap punches someone from behind the shield the shield absorbs the punch and then directs it forwards towards the middle of the front, not towards the rim. Then when the force comes from the concave side it gets redirected towards the source. Which causes Thor to be thrown back by his own hit, and lets Cap use his shield as a landing pad when he jumps from tall heights. The rim itself is the point where kinetic energy isn't absorbed or redirected, because if that was the case he wouldn't be able to bounce it around or use it as a cutting implement by employing extra force.

Spidey has more proportional strength, but Steve has more mass.

I mean I'd have to rewatch but doesn't Steve make a point of pulling Spidey away from the ground with momentum each time? They don't both plant down for a tug of war and end up with Spidey losing it.

Yeah, if anything it should be "fly-sense", not spider-sense. Spiders are fucking easy to swat.

GREEN ARROW beat Prometheus. Spidey would just take him out with a backhand.

so why are people mad that bucky cant beat spider man, some one with superior strength, speed, reflexes, and the ability to shoot webs?

Nobody is mad about it

>Spidey could still hit him with a train or some shit and kill him

Jesus, there's cutting a promo and then there's that.

...

Bendis is the one who nerfs 616 Spidey for no real reason.

It's hard to fight Silver Surfer and look cool at the same time, especially the number of non-lethal ways that Norrin employs to make you shit your pants beyond belief because he doesn't like to kill.

I like how in Winter Soldier's director commentary the Russos explain that cap's shield absorbs kinetic energy and therefore cap should not be able to redirect the minigun rounds during the highway scene at all

"But the audience didn't complain so..." The russos are fucking brilliant

Now that's just inconsistent writing

I'd call it "equal in terms of power and neither of them is especially durable."

Given the amount of times he has Spider-man beaten, humiliated and unmasked I think he secretly hates the character.

Peter's a white heterosexual male, of course he does.

Spideys weight doesn't matter, he has damn spiderfeet that stick to anything. Cap wouldn't be able to pull him at all

God, I hated that issue. Takes hits from Juggy and keeps going, but some double Z-List nobodies hold him down somehow and hurt him.

Shit, Slott has his faults, but at least he doesn't change Spidey into a glass... not even a cannon, more like a pea-shooter that's quippy.

against someone strong enough that just causes whatever his feet/hands are stuck to to be ripped off with him

That scene made about as much sense as this one.

Throw in All Black The Necro Sword which can only be kept safe within supermassive black holes and it's all over for it even started

you again?
sticking to walls
the other powers
stfu

SS was hurt just before this moment which is why he's weak.

>sticking to walls
>a spider power

U wot? That's gecko powers.

Vision in the comics has always been pretty high but never at the top. He is equal to the Iron Man, She Hulk, Nova level but always below Thor, Hulk, Namor and Hyperion.

In events he is always the first one to get ripped apart and die. Problem is that in 50 years he has more massive losses in the big fights then wins so he comes off as pretty bad in feats despite what his powers actually are.

Venom since day 1 was described as much stronger than Spider-Man, I don't think I have ever seen anything refute that at all.

Doesn't matter how they describe him, spider-man has preformed much greater feats of strength venom.

Seeing this image makes me realise that this is I think the first movie costume of Spidey's to have that element of creepyness to it. Maybe it's just the CGI but there's definitely something disturbing about the mask.

Dem squats

you watch too much dbz

I think it's partly because he's like the only one really hiding behind a mask. When you've got Spider-Man in a mask fighting Green Goblin in a mask, it doesn't stand out. But in Civil War there was like three guys who actually wore masks, and most of the MCU movies had no masks at all. Spider-Man jumping around and quipping like the fight is a joke while his facial expressions are hidden stands out A LOT compared to what you're used to in the MCU, because even though Tony always had his faceplate on we always got to see his facial expressions as well.

I never even got past the cell saga though

>Bug eyes
>Can contort his body in very odd ways no human should be able to
>The average person doesn't know his webs aren't organic and assume so
>Many famous heroes wear cowls or dont wear masks- he does
>Spiders arent a popular animal

Originally he was gonna be more quiet and reserved in his appearences, but he was too "creepy" as you said, so they made him talk alot and joke and be kind of a jerk behind the mask.

That wouldn't be the case with Cap.

>implying the joke after he's been punched in the jaw doesn't make him a hundred times scarier

Once go you to a high enough Power Level, Hulk is weak because he lacks the secondary powers needed to be the strongest.
Because he can't fly, his attacks is limited by ground friction.

Hulk might be The Strongest There is, but The Strongest is not The Most Powerful There Is

>some writer does some stupid shit one single time 20 years ago
>ITS CANON FOREVER YOU GUYS

This is why comics are fucking retarded.

Don't bully.

would be cool if spiderman noticably picked up on the fact that he was way more OP than cap and held back because he looks up to him

Depends on how gimped Spidermans Spider Sense is.
The advantage of First Strike do not exists if Spiderman is immune to it.

If Spidey is written as Gimped, Batman has a real chance.
Its in "If Superman just Tornado/Frost Breath/Heat Beam he wins" tier.

He's not even in position for bench presses. Squats and bicep curls, maybe.

Nahh. He topped out at 25 after "the other" and it was downed after that.

Pretty much, unless you have super speed as a power spider-man is probably faster than you

More powerful, certainly (He's a Skyfather-level god, after all), but physically stronger?

When he ups his density to max he brushes up against the Hulk.

But when he was alive, he was stronger than pretty much anything humanoid in Marvel with the possible exception of the Sentry who basically IS him.

One of the god Thor's original attributes was strength. Having the comic version be weaker than Superman after he also attains Odin's powers would be silly. It's like giving Hercules all of Zeus powers as well, but then keeping him weaker than Superman.

From the looks of whatever machine Superman is in that it's able to switch from a rather large array of positions and setups for multiple styles of exercises.

...post it?

I think it's where he punched off Scorpion's jaw.

Plus it just makes sense Symbiotes would be able to harm other Symbiotes. Evolution would design that especially in a species that can be so potentially aggressive to it's offspring/ancestors.

I thought that was an established fact, where each new generation is stronger than the last, like how toxin was tougher than Venom or Carnage.

Found it.

Thanks user. And euch, poor Scorpion.

I can put a more coherent reason to it than 'mental barrier's preventing super powers from being able to do literally anything at any time if the user so wishes.

Mental energy when unfocused simply spreads uselessly. Focus the sun's rays enough and you can even melt steel, but an average sunny day won't hurt you. Without proper focusing, and without a mechanism to achieve said focus, all that potential is going to waste. The way the powers express themselves thus becomes the mechanism. The results being limited to that mechanism because the effort is being focused to give a visible result.

Also makes sense of the most commonly seen human super power. Determination creates visible power ups, and mental duress often expands or plays havock with the individual's powers.

Personally, I like the idea of human's being seemingly pointless among a universe of aliens that all have unique biological super powers. With the hidden potential to be incredibly powerful espers if you called them psychics then the average drooling moron reading would ask why everyone doesn't have mind blasts and can't bend spoons with their thought

>the ultimate killing machine

He's not even in the top 1000 strongest characters in Marvel.

But can he swing from a web?

>But the Hulk grows ever more furious, his strength growing metrically with each passing second -- and the outcome of the strange duel is in doubt.

>With the hidden potential to be incredibly powerful espers
I'm gonna step right in and remind you that the esp in esper stands for extra-sensory perception, which doesn't cover anything other than supernatural senses

The term has taken a life of it's own in manga, user. Not relevant to Cred Forums, but it's as good a term as any. Again, if you call them psychics, morons will pour out of every place asking why Spiderman can't bend spoons with his spider sense.

Why is Iron Man benching? The armor is doing the work, he's not working any muscle there

GLOOTS

stress testing the armor

That's D-Man. Leave.

a strong enough magnetic field can kill you just fine, it doesn't need any ferromagnetic materials. the iron part is bullshit though. it would just affect your ion channels or the water through diamagnetism

IMPRESSIVE

...

>How do you go from being the ultimate killing machine to barely being able to stand up to a 15 year old?
Probably because Bucky specifically doesn't WANT to be a murder machine anymore. You know, the same reason he didn't kill all those commandos who tried to arrest him.

It wasn't much of a weakness in his early days, where he was capable of smacking the shit out of the Human Torch without a problem.

Real talk, in comics Peter can probably kick the shit out of 2 Caps at the same time.

This. He also isn't in terminator mode from hydra like it was before, so he loses the unfettered killing reflexes he had then.

You mean the 15 year old that can lift a car over his head?

And ol Matchstick deserved to get the gab smacked out of his gob.

As far as MCU goes.

Spiderman is strong than everyone except the Hulk, Abomination, Giant Man, and maybe Thor and Vision.

Pretty much every insect and arachnid can stick to walls. It's explained as comparable to literally energy holding him to the wall, the only time they actively use insect/arachnid physiology for it is the Raimi movie, and even that got it wrong because Spider-Man can stand parallel to the ground. Spiders can't do that.

All Peter did was go "I crawl up the walls, just like the spider that bit me. I'll motif myself after spiders!"

To be fair, from that angle, it does look a bit like one of Tony's early armors.

You'd be more ahead to call him Dare Devil since he has a giant ass D on his chest. You'd also still be wrong.

Sentry is some fucked up anomaly, he's above Heralds and closer to people like Thanos, so physical stats stop mattering.

I've been meaning to read Octo-Spider, is it any good?

Literally the best Spider Man run. Peterfags hate it because "NOT MUH"

It was the natural evolution for Spider Man. SpOck is literally what Spidey would be if Peter wasn't a retarded manchild. Bringing Peter back was a mistake.

It's fun until he deletes his memories of Pete and somehow even while talking like a dime store villain no one, not even Aunt May, can figure out he's not really Peter.

The disadvantages of the imperial system

Spidey can be so fucking badass when done right.

Not taking into account searching for people to carry back, and that they're not all standing in the same area :^)

Even if one is hurt, im pretty usre being a cosmic being has more merit than going against a man at peak human strength that has ancestors that won't leave him alone

When he did that in X2 Mystique had to inject the target with additional iron. Maybe that iron was magnetic?

When someone tried that in the past, Spider-Man trained with Iron Fist to be able to fight without heavily relying on his Spider-Sense.

So either Batman tries to jam his Spider-Sense because he couldn't know that Spider-Man had been training with Iron Fist in a hidden dojo, or Batman somehow knows this and doesn't bother.

If Carnage can regenerate like that then why didn't his legs grow back after Sentry tore him in half?

No it does not.

That's Ult Cap.

I think Spidey is more creepy when he dosen't talks, if this spider looking fucker just come at you in the middle of the night hunt you like a predator if you were a criminal you will just be shitting your pants, fuck some probably think this guy looks like a real spider behind the mask

I recall reading somewhere that this was due to a miscommunication between the artist and the writer. I think SS was supposed to have a look like "is this guy fucking serious right now?" but the artist made him look like he was genuinely struggling.

I know that it's stupid to reply to a post this old, but I have to say how retarded you are for thinking a train would stop someone who was mildly inconvenienced by being ripped in half and thrown into space.

>how do you go from killing normal humans to barely being able to stand up to a superhuman far stronger than he is?
We can only wonder.

It has some basis. One of Hulk's lesser known powers from way back in the Silver Age is that he can see ghosts and astral projections.

For instance, a few places refer to the characters in Stardust Crusaders as "psychics".

Jesus Christ that design.

Thank God for DC and its reboots, I find DC characters are more often than not more consistent than Marvel guys.

When the 15 year old can carry like 20 times his own body weight

It's passable. Cap is superhuman, bigger, a far better fighter and far more experienced then the Spider-man who started six months ago, is in his first superhuman fight ever, has almost no experience and isn't THAT stronger at 15, and is fighting his idol.

>comparing in metric vs. imperial system
retard

You do realize that tonnage has a clear and specific weight in pounds right?

>Thanos
>Ronan
>Collector
>Odin
>Bor
>Kurse
>A fucking Celestial
Yea, no. Those are just off the top of my head, too.

>Celestial
You mean Knowhere?

>even though he's capable of temporarily overwhelming Superman in speed
Are you insane?

The collector showed footage of a celestial destroying a planet with one of the infinity stones, to the guardians.

Spider-Man faggots on Cred Forums are quite the delusional bunch lol.

I honestly forgot about that part, since my last time rewatching it, I didn't really get to hear what was being said on screen and the only other time I watched was when it came out in theaters.

>>>/tumblr/

Spiderman writers are a delusional bunch

Same reason why Shego is apparently a super powerful ex-hero with plasma based powers yet gets beaten up every week by a normal teenage girl with no training or powers.

Spidey would just call Doc Strange.

petes really weird tho maybe in there eyes its not to big of a change but people like MJ should've known on a dime

Except not you fucking retard because Spidey is, like, 20 times stronger, faster and more agile then Bucky and has what amounts to precognition.

how does flash powers work does the people he touch gain no momentum

this nigga can clap so hard sound waves are visible with some smarts he could easily become a ground to air tank

pandering to Spidercucks

The thing is the whole issue where he "wins" by deleting Pete's memories is bullshit since the whole circumstance only came about because of Ends of the Earth, so Spock literally just excuses his past actions because "he's Spider-Man now" and felt no remorse for putting the child he's trying to save in the that predicament. Also his entire speech patterns are stupid and totally different from how Slott wrote Peter for over 100 issues.

Unless we talk about a version of Spidey that can make organic webbing, his powers aren't exclusive to a spider.

Could the Hulk see stands...?

Also because Thanos needs the gem in his head.
He's an android. He's about the easiest character to bring back.

Yup. Could interact with them, too.

He isn't in hydra deathbot mode in the airport fight.

though even if he were spidey would still kick his ass.

Not even Megatron's most embarrassing defeat.

With three women sitting on it.

characterfags....

>10 tons

How does he not obliterate everyone he hits?

I don't know, he also had a lot of other toys Hydra equipped him with.

Though ultimately it's all contrived. Whoever they want to win will win regardless.

kek

Lifting isn't the same as hitting as it turns out he can only hit a fraction of the amount he can lift. See, spiders aren't known for punching.

True story!

People can lift hundreds of pounds, but are still able to play with babies or puppies without destroying them

thats not how van der waals forces work

i have never read anything with deathstroke in it i didnt even like him in arrow he seems generic but even i know he aint got much under his belt

Hulk IS a stand

He's beaten Batman before. That's more than most other street levelers can say.

Having him be able to tag Flash is absurd.

Am I the only one who found Spiderman insufferable in the film?

He was an easily manipulated dumb-ass who should have been beaten easily by more experienced heroes.

dude this was my first spidey comic and I thought he was fucking amazing

it hit me with his entire pathos in just those three pages

Lemme save you some time. Slott's gonna make Peter give a big emotional speech while pissed off filled with "I won't let you get away with it!"-type lines when the good writers know that a silent Spider-Man conveys anger about a trillion times better.

Imo the thunder getting spider is bullshit though. The only things that are able to trump spider sense that I know of are symbiotes.

>He was an easily manipulated dumb-ass
He wasn't manipulated into anything, he was recruited.
>who should have been beaten easily by more experienced heroes
M8, it took EVERYTHING for team Cap not to get their shit fucked up by him alone. It took him being inexperienced, being at his lowest powerlevel since he's a kid, massively holding back and plot armor. If anything, he should have taken out Bucky and Falcon instantly and made short work of everyone else.

Slott, kill yourself. Your writing is terrible.

no.

...

Spidey has fucking sticky feet. He can make his own leverage. Cap was just standing there.

My guess is that the symbiote was completely focused on keeping Kasady alive. It didn't know how long they'd be in orbit, so wasting any energy on not maintaining his survival would be kinda useless. After he was brought back, the symbiote was stated to be nearly dead from the effort and sheer time, so it certainly couldn't have done anything then. And after his robotic legs were destroyed in Carnage USA, he actually does have proper legs again. Right up until Nova writers apparently forgot that was a thing because plot retardation.

Marvel characters are the most inconsistent thing desu.

>not pissing on the hammer
he's literally asking for it

>cool, you have metal arm XD

Like, I would have understood if the artist goofed up, and thought he still had metal legs. But they actually straight-up point it out, which makes me think that a lot of people involved didn't point out he's regenerated them legs.

That, and they were trying to directly continue on from AXIS. Where he had non-metal legs. Christ.

What the fuck, why is he wearing the World?

Use of force.

You're thinking of Superboy Prime, the angry manchild.
He's talking about Superman 1,000,000, aka Superman Prime, the shiny golden omnipotent god

well, he was younger then right? i woul like to see a 90 year old lift the same as in his 20's after being dead for 60 years

it has that starts-out-awesome-but-gets-mediocre curve that a lot of Marvel stuff has had recently (hi Secret Wars)

Ock's character progression inexplicably plateaus before he reaches real anti-hero status and he ends up as much of a dweeb as he started

I briefly considered writing a fanfiction thing with all superpowers having this premise. Humanity in general are latent reality warper, with 99% of people not thinking they have powers, so they naturally suppress it.

Then people with strong wills can bend reality somehow, and then they think that's what power they have, and again, naturally suppress other abilities they might have.

Then someone figures out there's no true limits and basically becomes a living deity capable of doing literally anything, only losing because he gets tricked by extradimensional creatures into going to another dimension where his powers don't work.

This doesn't sound quite as good written down now that i think about it.

I didn't hate it.

It was really silly that no one realized something was wrong, even people who have literally dealt with body swapping before, and I believe there were even times people mentioned Spiderman was acting funny, but just wrote it off for no real reason.