Dat last arc

>dat last arc

That was way out of left field. I loved it.
Why do people say his run gets worse towards the end?

Because of shitty art

>because Quitely left
ftfy

But Marc Silvestri is like a better Jim ee.

The worst art was Igor Kordey in the first half of the run.

>Why do people say his run gets worse towards the end?
the Xorn plot twist left some weird plot holes, and a lot of people didn't like the depiction of Magneto as an impotent, out of touch old man that was out of ideas and unable to command respect.

Plus lots of people really dislike the entire concept of Sublime

>the Xorn plot twist left some weird plot holes
I've heard this before, can you clarify?

bump

dfewjtheiujyrrhrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

But Magneto is a terrorist

>entire concept of Sublime
I'm fine with him being sentient bacteria, X-Men have always dealt with weird sci-fi stuff. It's the fact that he's the reason why humans hate mutants

>It's the fact that he's the reason why humans hate mutants

Oh so it was a shitty attempt to explain why people hate mutants but love the Avengers and other non-mutant Superheroes?

fuck off morrisonfag

> Morrison fag
> says what Morrison did was stupid

I think it's not because of the future arc, but rather because of Morrision going meta in a lot of things "and this is an analogue to the ever repeating cylces of serial comis...". Dude, you did way better in Doom Patrol and Mentallo Flex.

Not the same poster, I wouldn't even say that Xorn left big plot holes. For me it tried to fix something that didnĀ“t need fixing. A mystery that wasn't there. The whole relevation came so out of nowhere and the plan felt so bat shit insane ("I wait here for the X-Men to invite me (or die of old age...) to destroy them from the inside"), it was on a level of some random street thug, without any further explanation, stabing superman with a normal rusty dagger. It destroyed every credibilty the story had for me. It didn't help that the only substanial hint on the whole mystery was burried in an anual so cringeworthy you couldn't read it twice.

On the other hand, Is it really a good idea that the X-Men's greatest enemy (humanitys fear) is something a healthy dose of antibiotica McCoy whips up can beat ? "Protecting a world that's kinda suspicous of them (including some anti-vaxxers that still hate and fear them)" sounds kinda meh.

>That was way out of left field
It was rushed as fuck and basically a "oh shit I need to finish this book ASAP because editorial still loves Claremont.

Endsong (despite Land), is a vastly better Phoenix story than whatever Morrison did in the last two arcs.
I will continue to post this until you believe it.

>The worst art was Igor Kordey in the first half of the run.
This.

>something a healthy dose of antibiotica McCoy whips up can beat
Well, considering Sublime created Weapon Plus, I think it's fine because there ended up being enough things to perpetuate it. Even though all Sentinels weren't Sublime's, it still was able to aid creation of some super sentinels that would continue to fuck muties into the future.
I mean, Bastion literally doesn't give a fuck about humans, and even though he isn't a direct product of Sublime, he's still influenced by that enduring hate.

Who fantomex here?

>Why do people say his run gets worse towards the end?

Because morrison fags. Editorial jumped in to try to salvage something from the run, to mixed reactions. Plus they went from a guy that can't draw people for shit to someone who struggles with drawing anything.

/here/

>quitely-is-a-great-artist.jpg
Thank you.
I don't understand why people like him.

Why do people need to hate on Quitely?

He's the best in the biz.

>He's the best in the biz.
Haha, extreme bait.

>why do people hate shit art and the guy who drew it?
Gee, I wonder.

not bait

>I think it's fine because there ended up being enough things to perpetuate it.

I think it would feel like a cop out. Instead of working to solve a social problem', now there's a switch you can flip and win**, and after this, there' the X-Men are demoted to being (even more) ordinary super heroes, with their nemesis' machinations crawling up on them every now and then, again, always one vaccation away from solving the problem for good.

* and **: Of course, neither will happen because Marvel doesn't allow their franchises to evolve.

I think you missed the point of what I was, poorly, trying to convey. (for the record I think it's dumb for the reasons you state).

Basically, what I'm getting at, is that even if Sublime goes away, his Legacy will still continue to fuck with the mutants.

I downright love some of Quitely's work(All Star Superman, some of the Doom Patrol stuff). However his work on X-Men didn't work for me. It ranged from meh to vomit inducing.

If you didn't think the silent issue looked great there's something wrong with you.

I think I kinda got this, it's just that "Sublime's legacy harrases them", feels not as powerful as "We've got to make peace with the humans of world (and reach some kind of unity) before the shit truly hits the fan and we got ourselfs a full on race war".

Morrison admits he stopped reading at the death of Phoenix, and hadn't really touched the line since. You can argue he was taking Magneto back to his roots, but the character had incredible development from ish's #150-something to leading in Xavier's absence to becoming a near-messiah figure, who under Claremont's original intentions, would have replaced Xavier altogether, if the rumors are to be believed.

So yeah, it definitely flew in the fact of "true" fans who had been reading the book for forever, and been dealt a shit hand in the five years leading up to his run (YMMV depending on how you feel about Seagle/Kelly's run). Finally getting a great run but having that betrayal followed by all the necessary retconning involved kind of left a dirty taste in a lot of people's mouths.

It's probably better the less of an X-Men fan you are.

Perhaps the silent issue was OK, maybe even good, but still, his overall work on X-Men left a sour taste in my mouth. It felt like straight out of of uncanny valley.

it's really annoying how apologists are
"b-b-b-but he didn't mean what he did mean"
he literally admitted that he wrote Magneto as a terrorist out of spite as a fuck you for x-men fans

I'm high right now and just finished reading it. I remebered after right now just then that I posted bullshit.

Calm down.

>I'm high right now

>It's ok bro, I'm just like Magneto and my drug habit excuses my shitty behavior!

Poetry

>he literally admitted that he wrote Magneto as a terrorist out of spite as a fuck you for x-men fans
I've read Supergods. I forget exactly what he said, but it was more like, "I admit that I angered a lot of fans at my portrayal of Magneto, and that if I could redo it, I would have written it differently".

He did not say that he did it because fuck X-Men fans.

Oh, as an addendum, said the reason he wrote Magneto like that was because he thoguht that pussyfooting around the fact that he was a mass murderer in favor of some kind of tortured soul portrayal felt wrong to him.

bump

So how much of it has been undone?

...

The big twist relies on silver age characterization that's been gone for decades and no one likes it

Half has been retconned, the other half just forgotten.

But he's always been a terrorist with dignity and a point, or at least he was when written well. Magneto at his best makes the argument that peaceful coexistence might be a nice goal but it isn't realistic and you might have to make a place for yourself in the world by force.

Morrison's Magneto, by the end, was a doddering, ranting, pathetic, drug-addled psychopath that alienated and disgusted everyone around him. It completely destroyed the character, which is why it had to be retconned.

But that makes perfect sense.

>I don't understand why people like him.

Quitely has done some excellent work, but he's also done a lot of meh-to-terrible work. His style, even at his best, can also be very off-putting.

Your point isn't responding to what the other poster is saying.

The problem they have is with Sublime being the cause of human-mutant hatred, not the idea of Sublime as a villain in general.

I can see why longtime readers might be angry, but the X-franchise was just a shitty mess by the early 2000s. Morrison's fast and loose new approach was exactly the kick in the ass it needed to be fresh and relevant again.

this

Because he's not Jim Lee or Frank cho or whoever newfags like these days.

>the X-franchise was just a shitty mess by the early 2000s. Morrison's fast and loose new approach was exactly the kick in the ass it needed to be fresh and relevant again.

But it didn't really get relevant and it's a shitty mess, all the same, for the last 15 years or so. Maybe it needed a kick, but that kick missed the ass and didn't do much.

>that kick missed the ass
It's not that it missed, it's that everyone at Marvel wanted to forget everything about it except Scott and Emma

Astonishing is so "back to basics" it hurts

Is it ok to like Choi?
I'm not a newfig, but that seems like a risk.

I dunno the backstory but I always got the impression that Astonishing was a blank check to Whedon and since he was gonna do Claremont lovefest they made it canon and a Deal

>it's a shitty mess
I wanna challenge that.
From Messiah CompleX through really the start of AvX, the X-verse was very, very cohesive.


>Astonishing is so "back to basics" it hurts
Based Ellis saved that shit then vanished to hibernate.

Whedon's run was awful though.
I'm glad it doesn't exist anymore.

I know that editorial tied to convince Morrison not to go ahead with the Xorn/Magneto thing, because obviously they would like to continue to use Magneto as a character and having him march civilians into giant ovens makes using him difficult

Which is why they were so quick to do the Xorn's twin brother thing

Also House of M

>then vanished to hibernate.
It's his return to Marvel every few years to keep the bridge open and/or to find a new artist to steal away for something he actually cares about

The thing about Morrison is that he has so many good ideas and if sometimes a bad one comes through it's still more than worth it.
He's willing to fuck the status quo up and we need more writers like him.

The real tragedy is that New X-Men overshadowed X-Statix and Soldier X.

>Astonishing was so "back to basics" it hurts
Astonishing felt like what the first X-Men films should have been, and that's as much of an insult as it is a compliment.

Not this shit again.

X-Men and X2 are great.
The first one in particular is underrated.

He writes 6 issues, that are all good, and then goes back to his crypt.
He just wrote more for Astonishing.
>and that's as much of an insult as it is a compliment.
I can get what you're saying by that, but nah.

X2 is great and I like it how it is.
The first hasn't aged very well.

> Soldier X
It's a shame New X-Men poisoned Igor Kordey's name. When he's not drawing a whole comic in a week as a fill in artist his work is good

Totally, New X-Men is far from my favorite X-Men comic, but I can appreciate that he tried to write something besides the same retreads of Claremont's plots that we'd been getting for a decade before and all the years since

Reading through New X-Men I actually enjoyed Kordey's work. It's was scratchy and rough, but I dunno, it was still pretty OK.
I like this cover too.

I've said that NXM was great bed of fodder for other authors to use. Basically a whole new set of toys for the toolbox.

Even though most of his contributions are gone now, the fact that the influence of his run is still present is pretty cool.

I don't even care for it very much outside of the Weapon Plus arc.

Cassie Nova was also dumber than Sublime.

>Cassie Nova was also dumber than Sublime.
You take that back!

I agree it was outlandish, but again, I liked how different it was.

X2 is fine, and X-Men is kind of charming and simple. X2 comes the closest, but none of the films have really nailed "the team" imo. I understand that there are real world production constraints that factor in to this, but I never felt like the team grew or shrunk or changed between movies, just "suddenly diverged" because of some behind the scenes realities. Storm and Cyclops were never given a fair shake in the films. Tacticool costumes.

I'm not on the anti-Kordey train either, but it IS pretty jarring looking at his issues next to any of Quitely, Jimminez or Van Sciver issues. (I personally would have preferred Jimminez to both Bachelo and Silvestri)

>Tacticool costumes.
Would you have preferred yellow spandex?
;^)

I would have been fine without uniforms entirely. Wolverine in jeans, tshirt and jacket. Storm in some kind of warrior goddess clothing that was explained earlier in flashback to when Charles recruits Storm that they wrote in order to make Storm an actual character in the movies. Cyclops is the closest to a "uniform" as he's actually wearing modified combat/tacticool clothing and is always slightly over-prepared for situations but doesn't really know how to interact with people that aren't Jean and the Professor, making him odd, naive and aloof instead of the "asshole chad boyfriend that the cool motorcycle guy gets in the end." Rouge looks like Lydia from Beetlejuice. ( maybe not but you get the idea)

Just read the omnibus a few days ago, was a first time read.

Beak was my favorite new character, and while it's a shame he doesn't seem to be used much, I get not many writers want to write a story that he fits in.

The manifesto/outline/series pitch they included had the Xorn twist happen in the first year/year and a half, which I think would probably have gone over a lot better.

>Beak
Thanks for getting rid of that shit, Wanda.

All they had to do next run was go "I rehabilitated myself from the sublime drug"

This.
But everything has to be hyperbole.

>hurr he RUINED MAGNETO FOR ALL TIME REEEE

>Xmen and mutants always a pastiche of civil right movements and discrimination
>deals with outright bigotry, hatred, and even religious fervor towards a group who through no fault of their own are "different"
>readers who are gay, black, whatever always fueled sales because the characters and their plight spoke to them
>holds up a mirror to last half century of struggle for acceptance and ceasing of hatred

>nope, turns out it's a sentient bacteria
>all that unnatural hatred and douchebaggotry? all because it can't infect mutants, so it made humans hate them to wipe them out
>entire concept is all but dropped later so it was all fucking pointless
>Marvel civvies are still spiteful pricks

It was a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid idea.

But it was an idea.
Having ideas is a concept a lot of writers struggle with.

But it undermined the entire fucking premise of Xmen. They fight for a world that actively hates them, both to show mutants and humans can live in peace, and also because it's the right thing to do despite what the assholes say.

By making the underlying problem Sublime, you're essentially saying that hatred is a) a easily solvable solution and b) something you can fight. It's way more complex than that.