Why do you hate Jean Cred Forums?

She turned Iceman gay

she's a cunt.
she exists to create romantic tension and love triangles. It got stale decades ago.
she keeps dying and resurrecting.

she made Cyclops' catchphrase "JEEEEAAAANNNN!"

Because we're gay.

I love Jean. I hate that the writers can't just bring her back already.

I don'the hate Jean. I just hate everyone who wrote her after the 70s.

I love Jean!
But I haven't read an X-Men comic since the first TPB of New X-Men, so I've probably missed out on all kinds of bullshit.

You aren't that observant, are you?

This.

Really?

Teen Jean is a bitch and is way too OP.
Adult Jean is just boring as fuck.

...

...

Yes really, don't try to take this shit out of context.

Jean is great.

Emma and Jean have such a fucked-up relationship...

Rachel is the superior Grey.

Isn't meme-ing your own personal fear-inspired headcanon taking shit out of context?

Or do *I* not remember what the word "context" means?

Do alt-U versions of characters really count?
Nobody's saying OldieLogan is the same as having Wolverine-Classic back.

He had mulitple girlfriends before Marvel's current "get rid of all the straight white guys" push. Many girlfriends, no boyfriends...sounds straight to me.

... so wonderfully,
deliciously fucked-up.

Because she's always been a complete shit character, she will happily alter minds or force people to do shit while preaching about how what she had to do was wrong and no one should ever do that. Meanwhile Emma does the same shit and gives not a single fuck. I don't like self righteous cunt, Emma at least admits she's a cunt

Example one?

Actually, not so much these days...

I like Jean. A lot, honestly, but this TeenJean is an abomination, as really are all of the O5 still present in MY X-Men static cartoons.

Can't wait until she gets PHOENIX'd.

But, yeah I do enjoy Jean. Even if it's kinda pathetic, I still think the Jeanverine thing is really good for each character. The little tryst Logan had with AoA Jean was fucking great. Although its kinda stale, the relationship between her, Cyke, and Logan has spawned some greatly good moments. Does anyone have that one page from Schism?

New Jean is a bitch that constantly reads people's minds without their permission (then gets angry when people do the same to her or when people call her out). She even mindraped Angel into staying in the future. She's a bitch.

Wtf?
Rachel isn't an alternate Jean, dude.

Hell, there literally aren't alternate versions of Rach to begin with.

You could actually have a point there, most fans alive today have never read the original pre-Phoenix, pre-Claremont Jean, when Phoenix took over it rewrote Jean's personality.
Even when she was reborn for X-Factor (ver1) she wasn't the same as before, with half her powers gone and half her memories erased.
THAT is the Jean most people know, the one who was a shell of who she originally was.
Don't even get me started on the whole memory-merge with Madelyne...

(it even did another personality wipe to her identity again in Morrison's run)

She might not have a 616 counterpart but you have to admit that the parallel universe characters are written as second-class X-Men.
Are you seeing that many Nate Grey: X-Man storylines these days?

When she grows up will she be called Marvel Woman? Why can't she be called Miss Marvel then? Can she be promoted to being Captain Marvel?

No, friend, you got this wrong. Rachel, specifically, is an anomaly.
She has no counterparts. Cable has Nate, but Rachel, for *reasons*, has no other version even though realistically speaking she should. She just doesn't.

Not to mention he was interested in Cloud when she was female but since Cloud wanted Moondragon they changed their body into that of a man and Bobby lost interest (and so did Moondragon because she's mostly into girls).

Bobby also respected Northstar but it was clear he didn't like him that way.

Bendis just thought because him and Kitty didn't work out that Bobby must be gay, I guess Peter Quill is next to get gay then, lets see who he dates.

I don't hate Jean. She is merely boring.

But a lot of that is probably that Stan and Jack didn't know how to make interesting female characters. Sue is also really boring. And unfortunately the later writers didn't know how to build off of the really drab foundation.

In one issue (Jim Lee era) she had dialog about how she hated that Professor X assigned her the codename: "Telepath"
Fortunately, she had a Phoenix flame display soon after and started using that name again.
(but that left Rachel without a name)

Pfft, it's Redd. Read comic books xD.
Also, at some point she did drop the moniker and just use Phoenix as her codename. Not sure if I remember what name TeenJean is going by.

Rachel adopted Marvel Girl for some time, actually.

You guys must have really identified with Bobby Drake if you care this much about his sexuality.

Tell you what, why don't you give me a runthrough of all those innumerable women that he man-porked into convalescence?

I bet you can convert me!

>was at gold promos
>now back to silver two 75 LP
Playing ranked was a mistake and I've tilted.

Fuck off bait fag. Even literal gay people don't like this retcon. It was pisspoor and shit.

Wow way to take those panels out of context.

He didn't date Cloud for once, he liked Cloud when Cloud was a she, when Cloud became a he Bobby went full NOPE and acted like a jerk towards Cloud.

Cloud became a man because Cloud wanted Moondragon and they thought Heather would like them better that way. But after being a man they were hurt that Bobby was upset about Cloud becoming a man, Cloud still didn't understand gay or the concept of gender they just knew they were in love with Moondragon.

In the end Bobby accepted the change in Cloud but he didn't try to pursue a romamric relationship with them anymore.

That said I don’t care about Bobby liking men but this case wasn't a good example of it, also he should be bi since he was attracted towards women.

Because she's dirty mutie scum.

That's weird that they are friends but once again Bendis exagerates character reactions.

Was it a "retcon"?
Did him dating Cloud, of all characters, really mean nothing?
I mean, really?
The last gal he dated before being outed was known for being intangible.
He started a relationship with a lady he couldn't touch.
Nothing significant there...

>Implying I'm a straight dude

I know you're baiting but read Marjorie Liu's Astonishing X-Men she based a whole fucking arc around that.

Also if you're doing a case with Bobby and Cloud about Bobby being gay it's a piss poor ine because

I would be weirded out if my boyfriend turned into a girl because I don’t like women.

OK now I know you're baiting

But then I guess everyone who has ever dated Kitty is gay, don't let Bendis hear you say that.

He also used to fuck Mystique, and has had a thing for Polaris literally since her introduction.

I wonder,
Did Jean go out of her way to gay-ify the only mutant who is not only totally transparent, but also not-NOT absolutely NOT flaming in any conceivable way?
... or was that just a coincidence?

Because whenever I see a redhead I want to smack it with a baseball bat.
Redheads are shit.

> Kitty...

Well, let's take a trip down memory lane:

First there was Pete.
Peter is an emotionally closed-up, "steely" guy who cheated on Kat the first chance he got to get some (presumably female) alien strange...
...and he's notably obsessed with his sweet little "Snowflake" sister.
'kay.
Then there's Doug. His most notable long-term relationship after Kitty was with an alien TechnoOrganic guy that "merged" with him.
'kay.
Then there's those "close relationships" with Illyana and Rachel...
Both turned evil and insane at some point.
But those were the chicks...

Am I forgetting someone?

Pete Wisdom
I suppose Star-Lord counts?
You can maybe lump Karma in with Illyana and Rachel. They weren't close for as long but there was an entire mini about them almost hooking up.

Well Polaris certainly was that long-term successful relationship built upon a stable bedrock, I give you that.
And Mystique... golly, I can't think of any reason why that relationship would call into question Bobby's hetero-normality.
You sure know your comic canon.

Also the Asian chick her wanted to raise a child with, and was devastated when she left under the wrong assumption that he didn't know he wasn't the father.

Oye, Pete Wisdom? Pete Wisdom?
That guy was British. That's halfway gay already.

And StarLord just broke it off (?) with her (I don't read Marvel space stuff) so the gay rebound hasn't happened yet, has it?
... Although he DOES spend a lot of time around that Raccoon and his man-tree life-partner...

Eat a bag of dicks, Brian.

Incidentally, this will probably be the only decent Iceman story there will ever be.

The current stories for him do suck, but there's plenty of potential to get it right someday given that there's two Bobbies now.

It's really annoying how everyone acts like she's the greatest woman to ever live and fall in love with her on first site. I think even Xavier had a crush on her at one point.

Whaa, whaaaa, that pic is out of context! Context! Whaaaaaa!

> Hot-Jeanie
I totally headcanon that she was subconsciously using her telepathy to fulfill her budding teen girl urges... but then again she WAS the only girl.
... (not counting Scott, of course)

have they done anything with adult iceman after the 'urgay' thing?

He's (ugh) Storm's right-hand (ice)man in Extraordinary X-Men.
On the he's gay note it hasn't gone beyond a few awkward conversations about how he still doesn't want to deal with it.
Frankly, he was hit on by more guys when he was presumed straight.

Because she's the worst kind of mutie.

Fucking redheaded bombshell with godlike power and tons of fans (and suitors) who has the audacity to feign solidarity with the real ugly, outcast muties. Also she has the personality of a brick

Man, when the fuck are they gonna get rid of the X-Babies?

Actually, you know what? That's probably gonna be the sign that the X-books are finally improving.

I don't very much like Emma either. Frankly I think she's an antithesis to the X-men's goals and a prime example of why mutants need to be registered.

Well if it helps, she was also hinted at being a closet lesbian way-way back in the early days.

It's true, her backstory was that Professor X telepathically saved her from a coma she was in because as a pubescent girl she watched her friend die in a traffic accident and was "emotionally linked" to the girl when she died.
I know that's not much more suggestive than Iceman's gay hints but this was the Comic's Code Authority era.

I never hated Jean. I was just okay with her being a telepath and Scott's girlfriend/wife/curse. New Teen Jean, however, can fuck right off. I haven't kept up with X-men comics in a while but everything I hear that she does is just the worst. It's like the person who started this storyline with the Young OG X-Men never like them or just hated Jean in particular and has made it their mission to make everyone hate them too. It's really fucking strange from an outsider's viewpoint.

The context was he's the youngest one at the time, they probably didn't solidify the characters and their ages yet, so he wasn't through puberty. Remember how Beast was a stereotypical idiot at the time?

You're just not getting the whole example of bigotry's irrationality theme here, are you?

That's not gay, that's just Claremont being a dirty old pervert. Seriously, EVERY woman Claremont ever wrote could be seen as at least bi.

>And Mystique... golly, I can't think of any reason why that relationship would call into question Bobby's hetero-normality.
user, there's reasons a straight person would want to fuck a shapeshifter too, what's your point?

Fuck off casual.
It's blind shitposts like yours that keep ruining threads on Cred Forums.
Go back to Cred Forums and post about something so idiotic that they won't notice how uninformed you are.

user, there's reasons a gay person would want to fuck a shapeshifter too, what's your point?

She emotionally cheated on her husband for years with an alcoholic midget.

>they have people as powerful as this
>some even more powerful
>and yet regular old humies and their tinker-toy robots called sentinels almost wipe them out
This is why Age of Apocalypse will always make more sense than Days Of Future Past.

He wasn't that young when he joined. He was a teenager, he wasn't pre-puberty.

Thumbs up to you too, bro.

That was pre-Claremont.

That wanting to fuck a shapeshifter doesnt discount being straight, especially when he met her as a female, he refers to her by a female name, and otherwise generally knows her as a female.

the powerful mutants can't be everywhere at once.

Her backstory was never brought up pre-Claremont.

Like I said, they probably hadn't decided that yet.

>emotionally cheated on

Pretty sure they only reason they brought the O5 to the future is an excuse to bring Jean back to the comics.

They didn't have an exact age but they were supposed to be teenagers, they didn't intend to make the comic about 10 year olds.

Yeah, and a non-boring version of her

It's a thing. If your girlfriend/wife is constantly on the verge of fucking someone else you don't really have one. You're just a placeholder.

The original Sentinel designs and technology were created by a closeted mutant with the same "invent anything" powers as Forge.
They have learning computers, mutant detection capabilities, mutant power compensation capabilities, and self-repair functions.
The Master-Molds can even learn and then design better, more capable mutant-hunting machines.

>Psylocke! Don't you know snooping in other peoples' heads is incredibly rude!?
>Weren't you the one that read Bobby's mind to find out he was gay?
>Um...

Is Old Man Logan hitting that yet?

The writer bendis?

You aren't actually so fucking casual that you don't know how every single telepath has used the "I can't help overhearing" excuse, are you?

They hear peoples' thoughts as though it was all said out loud, and there's no off switch for hearing, that's the power's basic-level description.
Now say something else obviously casual. Or you could just go back to Cred Forums.

He's slowed down in his old age.
Give him a few more issues.

Reading other peoples' thoughts is a shitty thing to do, whatever excuse the writer invents for it. But in this case, it's not my problem with her; it's with acting so indignant when another telepath does it to her. She's a hypocrite.

That and she gets in the way of Scott and Emma hooking up. Boy scout deserves a bit of rough.

she tried but he said no. she probably would have raped him if they weren't abruptly summoned

It's not breaking into your bedroom to read your diary, it's overhearing your dinner conversation from the next table over.
There is no proactive measure taken in order to "do" that "shitty thing", it's minding your own business until some loudmouth sits down next to you and won't shut up.
And the only hypocrisy is whenever that loudmouth takes offense at anyone noticing their unwelcomed noise pollution.
Honestly, how many times have you heard one side of somebody's cellphone conversation? Are you a hypocrite? Was that a shitty thing for you to do?
(and Phoenix-Jean literally moved heaven and Earth to put Scott and Emma together at the end of Morrison's New-X-Men)

>and Phoenix-Jean literally moved heaven and Earth to put Scott and Emma together at the end of Morrison's New-X-Men
because if Scott doesn't have a telepath fucking his brain he becomes a morose suicidal wreck and the timeline goes down the shitter

Oh, it's more than that:
Jean knew that she needed to recruit Rightclops to make Utopia happen, to kick Beast out, to make all those hard decisions that bring Hope to the world.

Only Rightclops could get that done. (shame about Scott though, he just had to take the fall for it)

That's an issue that I would subscribe to read.

Roman Reigns disorder. She gets more exposure ahead of more appealing characters because someone in creative direction has bad taste or a vested interest in making said character popular.

Is it really irrational when the hated person in question is an unrepentant turbo bitch who uses her mind control powers to her advantage and regularly invades people's private thoughts?

Don't answer that the answer is no and you're an asshole for even thinking otherwise. She does nothing but prove everyone who fears mutants correct.

You do understand that the point of a question is in fact to illicit an honest answer, right?

*Ahem*, as I have been given the solitary option of answering: "no", obviously I can only decline to answer.
However, there seems to be no purpose to your question beyond espousing hateful pejoratives and leveling hostile accusations, so it stands to reason that no answer was ever required.
How rational is it to ask a question but not allow any answer?
...?

She's the original X-Men version of that silly Inhuman tumblrina with a tail that mind controls people into doing what Medusa wants.

Swain, I think that was her name

>Even I once had a mortal woman partake of my nature!
Is Valkyrie saying she slept with a chick?

Violating the sanctity of others minds repeatedly. Making Bobby gay. Not returning to her original time line. The girl is a cunt.

But OP, you're Gay.

I miss it when she was good

She and Scott are perfect for each other, neither has any personality, they both have a stick up there ass that prevents them from ever having fun.

If they had just made him bisexual or at least left open the possibility it would not have been as bad (still pretty fucking bad but not quite as much)

But no bendis explicity specified full gay.

I'm scared she'll make me gay.

She turned 2 Ice Men gay. I actually hate teen Jean more. I don't have much of a dislike for the original Jean. It's been over 11 years since the original Jean died. I'd rather have her then teen Jean.

What about the future Icemen? There were 4 of them in Battle of the Atom. Are the other ones gay also? Are they all going to get travel in time and have a giant orgy together? It's not like they have to worry about ruining there children's timeline or anything.

an asgardian chick I think it was but yes

they are perfect for each other because for each of them removing the stick from their ass gives them a god complex, dark phoenix and rightclops respectively

with how time works, a probable future can interact with the present, but if said future stops becoming probably it gets shunted into an alternate timeline

This. For as much as writers love her they haven't come up with anything that isnt about who wants to fuck her, being a massive unentertaining cunt and PHOENIX. One of the most disgusting examples of that I remember was when Scott was 'dead' and merged with Apoc, one the very first things immediately have her 'struggling' with wanting to suck face with Wolverine.

Hell, even Rouge and Jubilee have more variety in stories and character moments than Jean.

>Rouge
opinion discarded

Jean is one of those characters where the outline of each writers' run has created a negative space of good character which no specific run can be pointed to, but which nonetheless remains prominent in the collective audience's mind as how she should be

bland
JEEEEAAAAAN
Emma is better
Bendis

Fucking spellcheck.

Still don't change the facts though.

Except that's not the case at all. In the Psylocke scenario I believe user is referring too, the issue was that everyone was keeping their thoughts "locked up" and the psychics weren't able to easily read everyone else's minds so when they put more effort to do so it was blatantly noticeable and then everyone gets upset. Based on that it's pretty obvious that they are actively scanning the heads of everyone around them and when you block them somehow they decide to put even more effort into getting into your head.

"If you didn't do anything wrong you have nothing to hide" - Every mutant telepath ever, but Jean worst of all.

Colossus is about as far from gay as can be.
>Rachel, Illyana
>evil
wat
>defending the O5
Christ

N I M R O D S
I
M
R
O
D
S

AoA is better though for the sheer insanity of it.

>TeenJean even being able to shunt post-DAS Betsy out of anyone's head.
Jean wank was a mistake.
I guess you could say that Psylocke wasn't being "active", but still I was #triggered.

I want her to molest me with her mind.

Christ, why is the art in this so fucking bad?

Brain Mikel Benis

Jean Grey may be the worst character in all of fiction.

She's definitely fucking with his mind throughout all of this.

That's Lancelot

Rachel's Jean and Scott's daughter from an alternate future. She's not Alt Jean.

Captain Phoenix

Say what you want about Angela/Hellcat/Squirrel Girl or whatever, but THIS is unacceptable writing. I honestly can't understand how this passed through multiple people's hands and they all okay'd it. Are they just so excited that they're "doing the right thing" and retconning a gay character into their past (FIRST BLACK WOMAN WRITER AT MARVEL IN THREE HUNDRED YEARS!!!) that they don't see/care how forced and clumsy this dialogue/reveal is? The first moment of characterization as a gay man is "OMG HOT BOYS!"

also giving a non-telepath a "mental hug" seems like teaching a six year old about masturbation or prescription drug abuse or something. Are you TRYING to groom a weird dependent lapdog with a ruined sense of personal agency.....oh wait this is Jean.

Seriously, what is a mental hug other than step-one of habituating someone's brain to your biochemical/psychic fingerprint, and thereby, influence?

There's a million things wrong with it. For one it doesn't make sense that they have some deep rooted homosexual urges they never even realized themselves until a psychic told them.

Bendis made one of the new x-men gay around the same time, so I don't get why they need to make an old one gay also.

At least the one in Uncanny doesn't seem as forced and awkward about it like Iceman does. Although having the power to turn into a woman seems kind of cliche for a gay character to have.

Boring concept, honestly. I'm sure there's some version of Jean that is well-written and interesting (and totally not Jean at all), but in every other iteration she's an OP Telekenetic in a world of eye punches from the punch dimension, furry professors who read while hanging upside-down, drunk Canadians who expect us to take metal spikes coming from his hand seriously, and sluts who god cursed to not be able to touch anyone. Boring powers, boring personality, boring name that is inches away from being "Jane Doe."

Young Jean is the best thing to happen to her character in forever. She's so fucking normally, young Jean has a bit of personality and can't control her powers yet so she's not as OP and dull.

>TeenJean
>not OP
Fookin watchu sayin?

Me too user. Me too.

Teen Jean is what happens when the writers finally realise people hate adult Jean, and want to make a grandiose statement that they don't care if you hate Jean you're still getting more Jean. Adult Jean was an accident, Teen Jean they're doing it on purpose.

I'm more worried she'll find out about some of my other fetishes that are far worst.

co-dependent and insecure as with cyclops. in the x-men unlimited issue 7, gambit gives her shit about it. this is the only time i have ever seen another character give jean a hard time and point out her lack of independence.

90s cartoon had her as an emotional wreck.

not sure if this is realistic or not. i also don't know if women identify with emotional wrecks. maybe the problem is that jean grey is a female?

notice how many of the non-human looking mutants are males.

you'd think that psionic characters could be written well, but i can only think of cable and x-man off the top of my head

like emma frost, she seems nothing more than a foil for cyclops who is also a flat character.

I despise Teen Jean because she's a gigantic amoral cunt that gets away with everything. I genuinely pray for her to have a humiliating death.

Scottfag, please. It's not Jean's fault that Cyclops is lame.

She used to have no counterparts but then Secret Wars hit where there was a counterpart for her in 2 different regions of Battleworld.

Psychics are almost across the board ASSHOLES.
As far as psychics go the only one I like more than her is Psylocke.

...

...

...

...

I'm pretty sure that the whole hate for Jean thing isn't about Jean herself.
She was a blank slate back in the first (O5)X-Men run, just there to be "the girl" and heaven forbid they give a female character a personality in the '60s...
And now, what is she? She's a blank slate again. The first Jean has always been defined by the Phoenix and Scott screaming her damned name, this kid version doesn't have either of those: the Phoenix isn't in her yet and she dumped Scott, so now there's nothing that defines her.
Tabula rasa.
And everyone seems to hate her for that. It's kinda crazy.

>Marvel Girl

And when was the last time she was called that?
Go on, look.

...

Teen Jean is a straight up bitch.
I will never forgive her for making Bobby gay.

No we're not. We can't be mutant and gay, it's too much

user, there's very specific reasons people hate Teen Jean. Throughout her book there were multiple instances where she casually uses her telepathy on people, including the start where she mentally dominated Angel into wanting to stay in the future after he expressly said he didn't want to. Hell, there's even a point late into Bendis's run where Storm has to tell Jean, in the middle of a conversation between two people, "Jean, don't read their minds." and her response is basically "lol, already did."

yes.

the fomenting of bringing back the O5 was bendis's idea. in so doing bendis has managed to assassinate the character of beast, jean grey, iceman and many others. Bendis is a moron and i highly suspect that disney hired him simply to push back any fans with taste so disney can focus solely on peddling trash to children with money from their rich parents

That's not really a reason to hate her, she's new to her power and still learning how to use it responsibly. That's why people go to Xavier is because they don't know what's the right thing to do when you have powers like that.

then it's irresponsible for the writers to have older x-men not teaching jean grey how to use her powers responsibly.

you'd think that they would have gotten cable to train her, not emma frost.

bendis a shit

Whining about semantics doesn't really address the issue that Emma is a horrible person who regularly abuses her powers.

There's a difference between "overhearing someone's thoughts" and "actively digging into their mind to find out about their repressed sexuality"...

That's what makes Emma great though. She's not a moralfag obsessed with doing the "right thing" all the time. That's why people love Logan also.

I never gave it any thought until now, so just now do I realize that Jean was present for both "Bobby you're gay" encounters. That plus the fact that she actually manipulated Angel's mind previously really just leads to an almost certainty that Jean's mentally manipulated them into thinking that they're gay.

She turned Bobby gay

TeenCyclops is alright

The fucking SECOND hes outed as gay, he starts acting all stereotypical
>Angel is SO hot its annoying!!
Fuck off, at least have the decency to write him the same way.

Remember how future Iceman was Gandalf? Remember who played Gandalf in the movies? Remember how gay that actor is?

Yup.

Huh. Skipped Secret Wars, so thanks for bringing me up to speed.
I wonder if it could be that Doom just goofed and approximated "Rachels" from points in time who were in fact her own self due to the time travel shenanigans that her older self will have been doing.
That was intentionally wordy. Trying to evoke that X-Men (dis)continuity.

But its written as not a big deal, user. She fucks with peoples heads and is still treated as the darling of the Xmen.

It's not that I hate Jean.

I hate the entire concept of The Phoenix. I watched XMenTAS and the entire Phoenix saga made me want to drop the show. It was just so boring.

I don't hate Jean. I just enjoy the hate on Jean.