It kind of hard to believe that this used to be Carol Danvers. She went from being the fun aunt to a naggy mom

Carol went from Strong to "Strong".

Literally the moment they removed the thigh high boots her character turned to shit because the people that did it had no idea what made her a strong compelling character.

RIP in peace Ms Marvel.

I still can't believe marvel pushing this terrible character on us and made Cred Forums think she was a good character before

I actually liked her character when she showed weakness in dealing with the fact that she's a closet sadist. Shame we'll never see that expanded upon since they announced the movie and her reputation has to appeal to mainstream audiences.

Someone mentioned in a previous thread how Carol has more in common personality wise with The Punisher and Green Goblin more than other heroes and that spoke to me.

Every time she goes out in the field she has to actively fight against her base nature. She wants to go all the way with her enemies and not hold back. She wants to ensure Justice always sees the light of day in spite of overwhelming odds. The second she had access to a precog in the form of Ulysses, she immediatley thought to uses his abilities to begin saving lies.

Admittedly, she needs to accept that trying to intervene in future events is fucking terrible but her heart's in the semi-right space. But she also realizes that she actively has the power to achieve all of these goals in most occasions which means the only thing stopping her is her. Due to this extreme level self-loathing and exercise in self-restrain, she turned to alcohol as a means of self-medicating and continued to go out in the field knowing that it was destroying her. THAT is the character I want to see in the upcoming Captain Marvel movie, but let's face it they're probably going to fuck it up.

>Pic Related
Carol just ripped the moonstone out of Karla Sofen. Carol's a hardcore mother fucker

When I read about their reason for the costume change in KSD's run and the following letters page,

> Carol Danvers in Ms. Marvel costume too skimpy for parents to have their kids read Her books.

> Parents/Uncles/Aunties wants kids to idolize Carol and see her as a role model but....nuh uh...not with that costume.

> Carol Danvers - a role model for kids? Hothead, train wreck, impulsive, self destructive Carol. Ohkay....

I like Carol because her personal struggle resonates mine and I don't know, maybe reading about a failure of a being with so much issues to be dealt with still attempts to be a hero and has friends who believes she could be a hero kinda attracted the young adult me.

Yea, her "strength" went all annoyingly superficial and preachy. I buried my Carol a long time ago.

It's been so long I can't quite remember, but didn't Carol get yet another goddamn mindwipe or something right before or right after she became Captain Marvel? I remember it was something retarded that turned me off caring forever.

>I like Carol because her personal struggle resonates mine and I don't know, maybe reading about a failure of a being with so much issues to be dealt with still attempts to be a hero and has friends who believes she could be a hero kinda attracted the young adult me.
I think that's what most old marvelfags saw in their favorite characters. But now they're pushing Carol into being this paragon of goodness like a DC character is supposed to be.

>But now they're pushing Carol into being this paragon of goodness like a DC character is supposed to be.

They probably shouldn't made her the fucking fascist villain of This Week's Big Dumb Event then.

(To be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong--I'm saying Marvel is retarded.)

Mistakes into miracles

>fun
Yeah... fun...

You mean she went from fanservice to not-fanservice

Going to compare the first issue of Brian Reed's Ms. Marvel series vs DeConnick's first issue of captain Marvel. Board consensus dictates which one I continue to storytime.

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>make her a bulldyke instead

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I'm confused, /co, is she gay now?

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You mean she went from fanboy fanservice to Tumblr feminist fanservice.

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She should be fucking Jessica, but Marvel can't do anything right.

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Olympic athletes at the summer games wore less clothes than virtually any super-hero including Carol's old costume. This "oh the clothes are too skimpy" is just the easy excuse . Are you going to tell female track and field athletes that their clothes are too skimpy?

her publicist also represents Jessica?

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I'd personally get Stark to be my publicist, chances are he has some marketing division.

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> maybe reading about a failure of a being with so much issues to be dealt with still attempts to be a hero

I've never followed nor read much on this character other than having her in the runs I've read (Busiek's Avengers mostly) and I had always seen her as somebody who is in a constant fight with control over her own self. She gets destructive outwardly and the same time destructs herself with the self loathing and alcoholism and jumping head straight to danger. Despite of all of these though, Cap, Wanda, Spidey, Tony...these guys still back her up as a member of the Avengers and sees a heroic spirit in her.

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Alright, now for Captain Marvel #1

Reed's MurderCarol plis. Only because there seem to be a lot who are only aware of KSD's run. They need to be acquainted with Ms. Marvel/Warbird/Binary pre KSD.

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>Yes ma'am
Jesus christ, Cap.

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Muh dick

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KSD sold her like she's Wondy. A Star Sapphire and all. Carol as a Star Sapphire...bwahahahaha

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Never read anything with Carol, all I know about her, and I may even be confusing her with another character here, is that her son from the future traveled back in time to fuck her and father himself. Is this shit true?

Now kiss.

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She do love throwing stuff. The amount of things she threw to space is also quite tally-able.

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Why are you subjecting us to this cringe fest

This is so bad. Fuck marvel.

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This fight was so...engaging and yea, Karla and Carol, yea

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yes and most writers ignore it

Avengers 200 if ya wanna read about it

that's a pretty great ass shot

Your aunt should go to AA.

I wanna rub my dick on her thigh highs.

>sexualising a strong independent woman

>instead
>not masturbating to fit women with cute short hair

Alright, so which series gets the next five issues dumped?

>Shame this iteration of Carol doesn't have her own series. Earth's Mightiest Heroes would be a great analog to Marvel Adventures.

ANAD Captain Marvel is basically EMH Ms. Marvel.

The only thing I liked about KSD's run are all the murdercarol faces that Dexter Soy drew.

>not appreciating a nice butt

Was there some kind of memo at the Marvel office that Creel was official misogynist strawman?

Are you talking about the Fazeka and Butters series? Because I read the first issue and it was surprisngly not garbage. I just don't want to start reading only to find out the rest are terrible

>Reed run first issue
>Carol decides to improve her image and impact on the world based on her feelings about what she's done and how she isn't living up to her potential

>KSD run first issue
>Captain America uses similar arguments to convince her she needs to take up a dead man's mantle

Reed for sure

They only did one arc then it shifted to other writers and now it's permanently derailed by CW2.

Don't bother.

Civil War 2 really does kill everything good about current Marvel, doesn't it?

Except New Avengers, of course. You can't stop the Ewing party train.

>She gets destructive outwardly and the same time destructs herself with the self loathing and alcoholism and jumping head straight to danger.
I guess Rogue kept that part.

God...fucking...dammit.

Good argument. Here's another next set of issues.

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Reed

When she was Ms. Marvel, it never looked liked she was a legacy character at all - or even a sidekick. She was her own cape identity. Having her carry a mantel and expecting her to continue mar-vell's legacy somehow, in a way, discredit all she had gone through as Ms. Marvel-Binay-Warbird - all those that made her the Carol Danvers before KSD. Now she just st wears her old bf's clothes and carry his name.

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Nah, Rogue was already a self hating loser who needed to grow up too fast.

>Actually liking Nu-Carol

Fuck off back to tumblr

Man she does love throwing cars around

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I was about to mention her penchant for hurling stuff. Guys beat me to it.

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Its kinda funny to hear people bemoan the "stripper outfit", then turn around and post things like this.

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Why is this tiltillating? Or is it not and I just discovered my new fetish

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KSD's legacy. Fucking *sigh*

It'll never happen. Peter can't have a virtually indestructible girlfriend or have his anxiety and life problems would disappear.

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God this is embarrassing. Reed Carol would curbstomp DeConnick Carol and then slam have a whiskey neat to celebrate

wait. she can't breathe in space?

He wasn't from the future, and technically wasn't her son. He was an interdimensional being that used his power to cause her to become pregnant with him so that he could be birthed into the regular world, then he mind controlled her to fall in love with him and they travelled back to his realm.

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>Pete will never swoop in to offer to help Carol, only to be taken aback by her effortlessly handling things, causing him to sit back and watch while eating chips

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Is it wrong that the thing that bothers me most about this is the two speech bubbles? The second one shouldn't have a tail from her mouth when it's already connected to the first.

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They don't want us to have nice things. I find the idea of Carol to be the strong assertive one while Pete is swooning to be hysterically adorable.

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>Is it wrong that the thing that bothers me most about this is the two speech bubbles? The second one shouldn't have a tail from her mouth when it's already connected to the first.

Leth is living proof you can be ignorant as fuck about how comics work and still get paid to work on them because you have a pair of tits.

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KSD had her moments and I do think this page was one of them. It's a pity Soy couldn't finish this opening arc.

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Murder!Carol ftw.

Imagine the abominations that would be born from a Leth/Diaz collaboration.

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I like how the Brood and the Skrull gives Carol the reason to go full blast murderCarol. She sees them and a switch automatically turns on and it's rampage time for Carol.

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i think her crest on her suit is great but her hair is beyond laughable

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Cw

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Oh, this is gonna be a ride. This is where Carol stumbles so hard with her already dysfunctional compass. That whole Julia thing...

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Poor Strange, destined to job forever.

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>worse character designs than current captain marvel 'flight suit'
>worse writing than current captain marvel run

I think it would be absolutely fucking terrible.

And I think it'd sell. That's how bad it's gotten out there these days.

The only reason it won't happen is because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let C.M be written by a white guy anymore. Leth is probably trying to get her claws into the franchise somehow as we speak though.

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While storytiming is always good and fun, I'm not sure I like this pretend "Reed's Caro/murdercaroll" general thing you guys have been pushing for the last few weeks 2bh
Like her character was basically a semivillainous unapologetic alcoholic killer slut and nothing more. WHile Reed's run was enjoyable, I feel like
1. it went too far in portraying her as completely disfunctional
2. you're willingly underestimating the value of Reed giving Carol arcs where she does fucked up things, realizes she fucked up and tries to be better

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Hal Jordan and Carol Danvers in a relationship, now there's an image to conjure with.

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Nope, she just holds her breath when she's in space. It's why they tried to give her that helmet in the newer outfits.

It's weird that the closest we've gotten to that was actually KSD's two-parter on Avenging Spider-Man.

If I kept going would you guys keep reading?

I think it's more of a rebellious act toward her CM era most notably that of the KSD run where she was portrayed so differently. But KSD did kept something that is one of Carol's core personality - she's a fighter and she's a survivor - against enemies and against herself. She always had a drive to be better, to be good, to be heroic in one way or another.

With a film coming, I myself feel, murdercarol will be forgotten. It's her struggle for control and when she does let go, she does it on villain and enemies (her heroic spirit.) But she very aware of her tendencies and this scares her a lot. When Cru forced her to see who she is, she was in denial until Binary and Warbird spoke to her.

MurderCarol is a state of Carol when she's in the field. She's actually a very good friend and comrade. But her priorities do end up a bit messy from time to time.

Yes, Kate. Putting "sexy" in quotation marks certainly saves you from looking like a hypocrite.

Am reading, user. Thanks btw.

>she's a fighter and she's a survivor - against enemies and against herself. She always had a drive to be better, to be good, to be heroic in one way or another.
You just described literally every superhero that's ever been published.

I would

As with all things Cred Forums blows Carol's dysfunctionality out of proportion. That said she straight up kills aliens and kills humans by proxy in this run.

As you said Reed gives Carol arcs of getting her shit together, it isn't all fuckups. Which is what Bendis is missing with CWII, as much as I want to like Facist fuckup Carol like in CWI there's none of the introspection or realistic justification that Reed gives her.

I liked the issue where went visit her family.

Did you read my previous post?
I don't underestimate her self redemption arc, which is why her and Hank Pym are some of my favorite characters.

Stark is written as his own worst enemy in some instances and instead of trying to actually better himself he always ends up wallowing in self pity for a issue before engaging in a dick measuring contest with his enemy while alienating those around him. Seeing him grovel before Ock was a moment of humility I didn't think Stark could muster.

Bruce is his own worst enemy and his resolution is to isolate himself from everyone due to the perceived threat of the hulk. He never manages to achieve inner piece with his monster (blame editorial), and stagnates as a direct result.

Carol, in spite of her constant self judgement while doing her job, continues to fight the good fight because she believes she can save herself by saving others. That is inspiring. That is worth making a movie over. Then again, everything I said could be completley off base and I'm just talking out my ass. In any event, issue 7.

She also happens to be in the frontline for CW2 and the cause the writer gave her to justify her actions aren't so convincing. Most of her decisions doesn't jive with her character. She's taking so much damage.

RIP Carol.

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Sorry, but, which post? Quite hammered and I saw a Carol thread.

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The one right under my previous one lol. Then again, I might have overestimated her self-destructive tendencies, I didn't read much of her in the Busiek run and I ignored her storyline in Avengers 200.

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I totally read ahead and looked at the Siege issues and all I can say is shit is cash.

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This

Also Dark Reign and Secret Invasion. Most of the back half is stellar.

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>this page
>that one female Thor page

Why is Carl always the dumb sexist angry retard in the new proressive marvel comics?

That hurts

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Because current writers are hacks.

This series is surprisingly brutal, then again when you think about Carol's powers you realize she's literally a flying tank with energy absorption and redirection abilities, which can be considered anything but constructive.

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>stellar
Good, enjoyable, great-as-a-character-piece, high-octane, fun, fast-paced, action-filled, anything similar.
But stellar really sounds exaggerated.

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Peter kind of looks like andrew garfield in this

She was a wreck on Busiek. Probably the height of her self destructiveness. But Carol was Carol and she went into self redemption.

After Avengers 200 - two traumatic events there - return from that awful story arc about her son and then Rogue attacking her. She then got experimented on by the Brood. She returns to earth, rejoined the Avengers but she's loosing her Binary powers after stopping a sun from exploding. Her self confidence dropped so low that she keeps on trying to prove herself to the Avengers (and go nice drinking if she thinks she failed) and kicked herself out by quitting cause she thinks the team will kick her out.

I consider it a series greater than the sum of it's parts. Same thing with Slott's Mightiest Avengers and all of Avengers Initiative. This era of Marvel is a far outcry from the embarassment of the Marvel Universe meow

You've convinced me to go back and read these issues. Carol is now becoming my favorite female character. Followed in short by Zatana and Catwoman (when written under Dini) and She Hulk (when written under Slott).

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Pardon the commercial break from storytime. Busiek Carol passing through 1/2

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True

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The first I tought Is that girl has a big moustache

2/2

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>The recent USM issue where Kamala is shocked at Captain Marvel's behavior and it's like...that's how she was when she was Ms. Marvel.

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Carol can't stop a car? Bull

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I'm actually bored reading this now.

*glares*

ugh, could you literally, just, like............ NOT?!?!?!?! I cant even right now ugh

>Which is what Bendis is missing with CWII, as much as I want to like Facist fuckup Carol like in CWI there's none of the introspection or realistic justification that Reed gives her
There's some of that in her solo. Last issue she followed up on a vision about an old minor supervillain who served his time but was predicted to be involved in some upcoming disaster. She goes in with SWAT, stops a guy from shooting the family dog and they're there to stop it from happening and not to just arrest him without finding out what's going on, and stops the disaster from happening. The way it would have played out the villain wasn't at fault, but he was violating his parole by keeping a souvenir from the old days and gets sent to jail. Carol gets praised by the suits she answers to for stopping the guy, while she tries to convince herself that she just tore apart a happy family for a good reason and it's not her fault because she saved people.

There's a letter column later in the series where they admit Carol should have been able to stop the car but it worked better if she didn't.

One more issue and then that will be it for this thread. Will pick up either later tonight or sometime tomorrow and continue Reed's Ms. Marvel.

I'd argue the back half is significantly stronger than the first half.

Sorry, confused the page you posted with one of the Ms. Marvel pages. You're totally right. DeConnick sometimes nails it (Osborn Incarerated) and sometimes falls flat into mediocre territory.

Thank you for this read, user.

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Yes! Thank you.

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Wow, they made her unlikable in her own book with how she's treating Julia In a way she reminds me of Laura and her one track mind.

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It's because of that one track mindedness that she's able to do her job. She realizes that if she were to give Julia any chance to explain she'd end up on the wrong side of the law and that's something she can't do. She needs the Avengers far more than Julia does.

Did they seriously just do that

fukken ay

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wow they literally drew that lil black kid as a fuckin monkey

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>Wieringo
Whoa he was still alive in 2011? I thought he passed years before that. RIP one of my favorite artists.

I haven't read much of murdercarol but if she was wearing her modern costume I think it would have been the perfect peace agreement between tumblr and people who just like super heroes. But if you ever try to show this run to an SJW and it's SEXIST COSTUME.

Carol's no-bullshit attitude and her desire to be a popular super hero is all great characterization, which she's really lacking today. I don't even know what her personality is today, she's just bland filler for any modern, leading female super hero that isn't Wonder Woman, X-23, or Ms. Marvel

embarrassing, but such is life for Stephen in modern times

That Warbird costume was atrocious. But blowy eyes are nice.

>I don't even know what her personality is today

It's ok, user. Marvel's quite confused on what her personality should be. Not even 5 years as CM and she'd gone from sailormoon to punisher-dredd

Fascist Carol is best Carol

This is supposed to be Brian Larson?
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAH

A fun issue with a hot Miss Marvel

This time is over

Not any more.

She's had good comics and bad...but I don't dislike a single costume I've seen Carol wear.

Sue me, I really like the "Captain Marvel" suit.

Consider yourself sued. I'll be sending over my lawyers contact information directly. All further communication can be handled through my attorney. If you don't presently have legal representation... I suggest you get on top of that.

Good day.

I think it all started with is first conversation with Titania and sort of flanderized out of control since then.

That is not what an old person undergoing Chemo therapy looks like.

Follow up here

DAMMIT HERE

You know, Carol helping a dead astronaut finally get to space is pretty sweet.

But I still like Reed's run better.

KSD's first issue is a lot stronger than I remember it being.

It's not the worst costume in the world; what a lot of tumblrites tend to forget is if you put a fit attractive woman in a skintight full body outfit, she'll still be attractive. Which might explain why Marvel keeps butchifying Carol, to the point where if you showed a recent image of her to a normalfag and called her Carl, they would be none the wiser.

What was up with that bondage thing she wore to meet Kamala?

The scene from Captain Marvel with Creel came way before the Whor/Titania fight.

She blew her thematic load right at the start and the book had been limping along ever since.

i liked v2's Carol Space Adventures

>>dyke reformed alcoholic fascist who gets her feewings hurt when people call her out on being wrong
I'd much rather take the former, at least when Reed wrote Carol she was an actual character and not a soap box.

>dat Supergirl dig

If I remember correctly, Cap was pissed off after he herd that his friends were blowing up whole universes, he said they didn't act like heroes and so his team wore shades of grey.

I really liked Carol and Kamala's team up there, they had a sort of light hearted Batman and Robin feel to them.

>yfw Kamala had to hear the "You can't save everyone" speech when she wanted to make sure some kittens were safe.

>lasers to the crotch

Wouldn't that burn his dick off, rather than apply force?

>MOON POWERS!

Oh god my sides. Then again, this sounds like a think that could actually have happened at some point, so who knows.

>PAYDAY 2

Will never understand how, out of all these superior designs, they decided to go with the worst costume possible.

1/2

2/2

They're not lasers. She fires beams similar to Cyc's optic blasts or Tony's repulsers.

Really, it's a bit silly to criticize Creel for going for it. Crazier things have happened.

Middle and far right are my favorites.

Because it;s not about having a good design, it's about having an empowering one.

I know this is the easiest thing to say but I just miss her boobs being shiny and black. Shiny black material is super hot and you could give her the most butch, empowering design you wanted so long as the design still had that.

>it's about having an empowering one.
So having her look like a crappy superman clone?

I'm not talking about Jane vs Creel, I'm talking about Titania's first appearance in Secret Wars, where she challenges Crusher to a fight and he turns her down because he's "got nothing to prove to a dame."

Now she's the old Alzheimer's ridden grandmother from Germany that no one wants to deal with.

>Spider-Man mocks stilt man and trips hims.
>Carol throws a fucking truck at his face.

How could anyone not love the old Carol?

That first three alone are actually really nice. I like the sleeveless one the most.

I loved the fuck out of pre KSD Carol.

Good