ITT: Comics that are destined to be classics in the future

It still sells very well each year so they'd be stupid not to when they have a fresh vol 1 coming out in a few months

No matter how much you hate it, you know it to be true Cred Forums.

It was flavor of the month. Hyped died a long time ago.

your post is the first time i've seen it mentioned since it came out

Carnage will be legend in terms of spin off villain books

...

Omega Men was pretty good but it was nothing groundbreaking. All of the characters involved might as well have been completely new with how they were written.

Did David Aja carry Matt Fraction on this run? Is this one of those rare instances where you read for the art?

>t.kylefag

Kyle is probably the only one in there though that had some of his character from previous runs intact (which wasn't much). I'm talking about the Omega Men themselves.

>t.characterfag

user, I'm not saying it was bad. People can critique things they like.

>Vision
>Prieststroke

Fraction's writing was fine until the Kate arc

That's when everything went wrong

I don't think it'll be hailed as a classic, but it'll be one of those niche gems that those of us who read it will recommend whenever we get the chance

>tfw no trades

>>Vision
Lel no

>I don't like it so I'll put my head in the sand and pretend everyone else doesn't
I swear some of you people are fucking morons. It's really easy to tell what will and won't be considered a classic in the future, and it has nothing to do with personal taste. Like is not my favorite book by any means, but that doesn't mean it won't be recommended by everyone for years to come.

I didn't say I didn't like it, just that it isn't a classic.

I hate current Marvel so much for ruining this series potential

GoT is pretty mediocre

Not for a Thor run

No, even then

Especially then

It was pretty mediocre even before Whor came in.

Thor starring Jane has been superior

Those first two trades were a revelation for me. The writing was super tight and the art was absurdly gorgeous. Marvel was sitting on a gem. It's books like this that make me rage against the constant rebooting the most.

It starts strong and loose a lot of steam once we got to the futur. And as pretty as the art is, the action scenes are bad.

Holy shit I'm sorry but you are just wrong.

This isn't one of those moments where we can agree to disagree, you are just fundamentally WRONG.

Oops didn't mean to quote you here m80.

Ok kid.

No prob tyke.

Sorry about your taste, user

I don't know what the fuck this is but Tomasi had something to do with it so I might as well check it out.

Sorry about your brain damage.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Mystery_House

It's a comic based on a real world nutball who built an even nuttier house. + amazing artwork by Bertram.

This is going to stick around on rec lists for a long, long time.

I see it seems interesting I'll definitely give it a go

A sleeper hit.

too bad everybody else will ignore it and after seeley leaves nightwing it'll be one of those "haha remember when i was a spy haha" things

Let's hope Midnighter & Apollo is going to deliver.

>Dial H and Demon Knights, and this is at least as good as those two and far more accessible
It's way better than those 2 and way less accessible.

Personal taste aside ( Dial H is far better than Omega men you fucking pleb) Dial H is objectively less accessible than Omega men . Omega Men has a lot of depth but on the surface it's a straightforward rebellion War story that stars a highly recognizable character written by a writer whos coming off a commercially successful series. Dial H has no recognizable characters , a weird Powerset , an unlikable main character and is written by a first time comic writer mostly known for Cult fantasy books . There's no comparison .

The covers look like something straight from the cover of a music album. Very poster worthy, too

Probably not even that. We'll get some Spyral interactions every now and then but after a while "spy" will just be something on his resume no one talks about just like "cop" is too.

Omega Men starts with Kyle being murdered, than issue 1 being an almost silent issue where you have no idea what's going on, no exposition. Nothing. Issue 2 is the same way, we just find out Kyle gas a bomb in his neck. And issue 3 is another almost exposition free issue. Kyle literally does fuck all until we are way into the series, what and why it's all happening isn't revealed in traditional sense. It's a harder series to get into narratively and holds no hands. That's what I mean it being less accessible.

Well it's the only good thing to come out of Snyder.

I don't know why DC didn't let King and Seeley finish it, they only had a few issues left.

HAve you even read Dial H ? Because it doesn't seem like you have.

Omega Men is an utterly facile series compared to Dial H. The latter might be one of the only true classics of these dismal recent times.

Black Mirror.

I have, it's not as great, tightly structured or poignant. The themes, art and characters are way more immersive. I feel like comparing these two isn't fair though but even now people rarely mention it.

The only point I can agree with you on is tightly structured. Mieville was unfortunately not given the proper freedom in constructing his story so the pacing suffers for it. As for everything else, I don't know how you can see Omega Men to be superior. Dial H is a like 21st century Supreme , a comic that builds on the origins of the Superhero narrative and effectively subverts it at the same time. The characters in Omega men are honestly mostly one-note and serve mostly to move along the plot. On first glance, the art is better, but with the exception of some pretty panelling, it's doesn't take full advantage of the comic Medium the way dial h does. Frankly Omega Men doesn't fully shed the constraints of the DC Universe and Cape Medium and it suffers for it . Dial H is one of the rare achievements that is able to stand on its own without relying on other parts of the DC Canon .

You say that like these are hard things for readers to grasp. If you're above the level of an infant you can grasp a fucking silent issue. Dial H just drops you into the deep end with weird shit that does not make any sense until later in the book right from the start.

Really all of Multiversity but Pax especially.

Yeah Black Mirror is definitey a classic.

>Dial H is a like 21st century Supreme , a comic that builds on the origins of the Superhero narrative and effectively subverts it at the same time.
Subversion and deconstruction are just pretty words to throw around that makes readers, fans and bloggers feel like it's doing something special, it isn't. Subversion and deconstruction post Moore/Miller list the meaning. There isn't anything new about it and there isn't anything that hasn't been said or done and done better for the longest time that feels like it earned that phrase. Literally every 3 years apart there comes a story that author will claim as subversion or pure deconstruction and it does nothing new. In short don't throw around that term around thinking it makes the thing you're talking about somewhat special. Not trying to be aggressive or anything.
Omega Men on the other hand delves into themes that are far reaching than muh weird shit, got way more mainstream attention even though to this day it sells like shit and after all what really matters is that King is the writer people will talk about for ages and anything he has done will get the attention. I see far more people reading Omega Men in future than Dial H. Dial H will has an occult status, Omega Men will have classic status.
>Frankly Omega Men doesn't fully shed the constraints of the DC Universe and Cape Medium and it suffers for it .
That in no way hampers the quality of the series and that never stopped any of the classics from being classic before, it's irrelevant.

the five dollar masterpiece

Bingo.

Best comic (not cape just comic) in years.

>No Felicity
>Dropped

You don't read very many non-capes, do you?

right on cue

The British Invasion was over 20 years ago friend. Modern non cape comics aren't that good any more.

There are still plenty of good non-capes, it's just that Image has pushed a mainstream version of indie comics which is frankly just as mediocre if not more so than the average bland cape comic. I'd take the average Batbook over the typical Image formulaic garbage any day. Doesn't mean every non-Big Two book is like that.

Could easily make a movie of this

...

Prophet

They were busy getting Batman and Nightwing Rebirth written. King's writing issue 23 right now, while issue 7 is out.

>Who are the new hot writers now?
Robbie Thompson
Steve Orlando

>I only knew Brian K. Vaughan, Jeff Lemire, Jason Aaron, and Nick Spencer from back then.
You also forgot Rick Remender.

>Vision
Im so happy for marvel they finaly got a must read limited series to compete with the ones dc has.

Ignoring the fact that you are using deconstruction as a blanket negative while trying to say it doesn't work as a blanket positive, Dial H is a way better straight superhero comic than Omega Men in every conceivable way. Also your claims that the themes of Dial H are somehow less universal than those of Omega Men are pretty laughable, and your use of "muh" as a serious criticism lends credence to the notion that the exact opposite of what you predict will happen.

>That based Prometheus reveal
Fuck, Midnighter was too good to be true
I'm still sad that they're gonna fuck Prometheus in Arrow

>Ignoring the fact that you are using deconstruction as a blanket negative while trying to say it doesn't work as a blanket positive, Dial H is a way better straight superhero comic than Omega Men in every conceivable way.
I never said specifically that deconstruction or subversion of a piece is a negative, my point is it just is. Any writers or fans touting a piece of Superhero fiction in current day is special because of those traits are either ignorant or pretentious or both. And no, Omega Men is just as good of a superhero comic since it says a lot about Superheroics and ideologies. Just because it's not an average good vs evil doesn't mean it's somehow inferior of a superhero fiction.
>Also your claims that the themes of Dial H are somehow less universal than those of Omega Men are pretty laughable,
Omega Men delves into the themes of religion, terrorism and War, colonialism, consumerism, philosophies of war, peace, necessary evil while delivering a very mature yet very superheroish message in the end. These themes aren't just relevant in contemporary times, they're transcendental. Do elaborate what Dial H offer, will you and how those are much more universal?
>and your use of "muh" as a serious criticism lends credence to the notion that the exact opposite of what you predict will happen.
It's not a criticism, I'm just summarizing the series in the words of what other people used in this thread actually like and .

>Arrow
Show or comic?

Fuck, Dial H is one of my favourite comics of all time, but all the fagging over it here is kind of making me hate it.

Don't let Cred Forums do that for you, man. Jesus.

If two people sharing your opinion is enough to make you dislike something you once loved then you are the weak willed faggot.

I've heard that there is Kyle X Carol disgusting ship. Still can't force myself to read this.

Are you just pretending or are you actually retarded?

I don't hate it. It was damn good when it first hit and still (mostly) holds up. It's just been tainted because so many Marvel books that came later have tried to imitate it and failed.

I don't know how you are claiming to backtrack on the notion that subversion and deconstruction are negative when you say that the concepts have lost all meaning and are just words used by people to sound smart but whatever. Dial H is a better superhero comic than Omega Men because it is actually a superhero comic, not some intergalactic politics book. At its core it's about a man who gets powers that has to overcome his personal hang ups in order to be able to successfully fight an all-encompassing evil, which is both much more traditional in terms of a superhero story and also much harder to pull off than a story about politics and the negatives of war. Dial H also deals with the ambiguities of "war" or fighting in a much more artful and direct manner than Omega Men. The metaphor of stealing someone's power to use in your own fight is a much more unique and interesting way of presenting a moral grey area than the entirety of Omega's poorly disguised ideological preaching, and it is much more woven in to the traditional elements of the superhero genre than the rote political quagmire. And that's just one facet of Dial H, whereas it's the entirety of Omega Men. Also "muh" is a criticism, you are lazily simplifying arguments while making them sound like they are coming from stupid people, don't pretend like it's a valid form of communicating.

It started phenomenal. It truly did.

Then at like... Issue #4? Fraction tried to tell a multi-issue story arc and it just fell apart right quick. Some solid single issues since then but for the most part shortly thereafter the book just stopped being worth reading.

>Bertram
>Stewart

Well this is bound to be beautiful as hell, gonna need to pick it up. Bertram's Batman Eternal issue was the highlight of that whole series

Closet thing we had to a Lee / Ditko Spidey run in our era

Not him but you sound like a biased faggot that's just going to dismiss anything anyone says about the book you don't prefer. Your reasonings are hilariously stupid and you actually know jack shit about execution. Dial H was one too many things all at once without being clear about what it actually wanted to be. And the themes you brought up are flimsy as hell in that book. Have you ever read it recently? They literally gloss all over interesting stuff to be an unusual Superhero schlock. That's not a bad thing but that's not anywhere as deep as you're making it.

It's funny you say I know jack shit about execution and think that not bringing every concept to the forefront in flashing neon lights is equal to glossing over it. An abundance of ideas will always be better than a lack of them. Also you seem to be directly contradicting yourself when you say it has no idea what it actually wanted to be but is also simply being unusual superhero schlock, and how a book can be one too many things at once but be simpler than I perceived it, but then again I'm a hilariously stupid biased faggot so what do I know.

Girls, girls, you're both very pretty

>I don't know how you are claiming to backtrack on the notion that subversion and deconstruction are negative when you say that the concepts have lost all meaning and are just words used by people to sound smart but whatever.
And how's that false in any sense? If you do that, do it quietly and don't be pretentious about it as if these things mean anything to anyone with half a brain. It's literally a fancy term for people too stupid to realize it actually means nothing if it's Ill defined (in this case) and it means nothing much even if it's defined properly. Capeshitters need to be self aware, whether it be authors or fans.
>Dial H is a better superhero comic than Omega Men because it is actually a superhero comic, not some intergalactic politics book.
Yeah because it can't be both things, has to be one or the other right? I delves into themes about being a hero, chosen one and explores them really thoroughly. Perhaps they were 2deep4u.
>At its core it's about a man who gets powers that has to overcome his personal hang ups in order to be able to successfully fight an all-encompassing evil, which is both much more traditional in terms of a superhero story and also much harder to pull off than a story about politics and the negatives of war.
And at the core Omega Men was a story about a Jesus figure coming in terms with the situation he's trhown in and carving out the path that he believes in. That sounds really Superhero shit to me.
>Omega's poorly disguised ideological preaching, and it is much more woven in to the traditional elements of the superhero genre than the rote political quagmire.
There's nothing poorly disguised in Omega Men, it's pretty upfront about what it actually is. And preaching the ideals is literally the bane of capeshit. What superhero comics have you been reading where it's not about the ethics of ones action?
TLDR you hate Omega Men, we get it. Too bad for you that there aren't enough of you that can share your sentiment.

You are dismissing the concepts of subversion and deconstruction outright largely because other people misuse the term to sound smart or don't understand it and then appealing to self awareness, which is the absolute height of hypocrisy. I never said that Omega Men isn't a superhero book or that it's a binary thing, but the concepts traditionally associated with the genre are completely overshadowed by the nihilistic politics in the book and shine through much more strongly in Dial H. Saying that Omega Men is about a Jesus figure coming to terms with the situation he's thrown into seems like a cop out, I doubt that is the way most people would describe it, and he doesn't carve out much of anything. He has no agency whatsoever and like the book itself serves no purpose other than to illustrate that war is messy and bad. Being upfront and being poorly disguised are two different ways of saying the same thing, if you don't weave your ideas into your work organically then it comes across as preaching, which is not good storytelling. I'm also not sure why you think all superhero comics are about the ethics of ones actions. Sure, moral ambiguities have been done to death in the genre (another reason why Omega Men isn't all that unique or great), but those are borderline impossible to make effective when considering the actual touchstones of superheroics.

>Saying that Omega Men is about a Jesus figure coming to terms with the situation he's thrown into seems like a cop out, I doubt that is the way most people would describe it, and he doesn't carve out much of anything. He has no agency whatsoever and like the book itself serves no purpose other than to illustrate that war is messy and bad.
It's a facet of the book, when people will actually focus on MC, they'll realize at the center of everything it's a gripping character drama. Your statement about Kyle's agency is a poorly thought out one considering how much he goes through, how much he does and how much character development he has. I can walk you through everything if you missed it user. Also the book serves a purpose for our character other than saying War is messy and bad.
>Being upfront and being poorly disguised are two different ways of saying the same thing, if you don't weave your ideas into your work organically then it comes across as preaching, which is not good storytelling.
Right but poorly disguising means it's attempting to be really cryptic about what it is and not succeeding which it isn't and no, being upfront about anything isn't by any means bad.
>nihilistic politics
>serves no purpose other than to illustrate that war is messy and bad
>moral ambiguities have been done to death in the genre (another reason why Omega Men isn't all that unique or great)
Are you that same user who was in Omega Men storytime thread the last time? Because it seems so, anyway here's that thread.
desuarchive.org/co/thread/85813268/
Whatever you have to say has already been said and addressed in that thread in case you are not that user (which I doubt). I don't have the energy to do it all over again. And in case you are that user (which you are) and you hate Omega Men so much, make a uniform opinion or some blog about it with actual analysis. Be more prudent than you jumping in evey Omega Men thread and saying that same thing all over again.

This isn't an Omega Men thread. I was having a conversation about why Dial H will be considered a classic before Omega Men, and you brought it back to the same old arguments about the latter. For all your condescension you are not engaging with anything that I have to say and instead go off on tangents like equating agency with a character arc or organic storytelling with being cryptic or redefine a space politics superhero book as a character drama and essentially just move the goalposts while saying "Nuh-uh". You want me to start a blog because I have a dissenting opinion but you were the first person to start typing in paragraphs, and for all of your bloviating and quoting you made no attempts to effectively get me to see why Omega Men will be considered a classic and why it has actual substance and were more concerned with being "right". Dismiss me like you dismiss the concepts of subversion and deconstruction, but don't expect me to stop discussing comics on a comics discussion board.

ding ding ding

Dial H didn't even have a proper ending and pretty much no one outside of Cred Forums talks about it. They didn't when it was going and they don't now that it's over. It won't be considered a classic, just a weird niche book.

It is routinely lauded as one of if not the best book of the New 52 whenever the question is brought up, not just here. And a lack of an ending does not preclude it from being a classic, especially when it outclasses the average output of the Big Two for the past decade by such a ridiculous margin.

I would love to see some evidence and not this "nuh uh"-level rebuttal, because that is complete horseshit. No one ever talks about it, I, Vampire, or Demon Knights outside of Cred Forums unless it is in the manner of "haha remember when DC published those wacky books at the start of the New 52?" You're really out of touch with the comic book community, and it's hilarious to see how you shat up this thread because you cannot grasp the difference between public opinion and your personal opinion and someone dared to insult your waifu.

The new Flintstones comic is going to get cancelled in a few months and then rediscovered years down the line and everyone will be whining about how it got cancelled too early. Mark my words.

But doesn't that just prove it's classicness? It was really good, so good that others tried to imitate it.

Usually when that happens it's a sign that you've got something really special on your hands. We don't consider Watchmen any worse just because it had a lot of shitty imitators that followed it.

What the fuck are you even talking about? There were 52 books at the start of the New 52, no one talks about shit like OMAC or Hawk and Dove or whatever the fuck that war one was, those ones you mentioned are always brought up (I, Vampire less so). And you honestly think that there is some gigantic division of the comic book community based on who goes on the internet to talk about them vs. having physical conversations about them? That this extremely niche hobby has such drastic differences between the millions of people online discussing it and the very few who aren't? Really?

Considering how well it's doing in sales, it'll probably last at least 12 issues if not more.

To be honest, it's really distressing to see people who can't simply enjoy a comic on its own, but rather they have to put down other comics too in order to justify the level of their enjoyment.

There's another conversation in this thread that's also falling into that same trap right now, but I'm linking to you instead because I don't want to get involved in that mess.

Hey now.

Foolkiller.
Squadron Supreme.

Some people do

When saying something is or isn't going to be a classic you exactly have to justify why or why not.

This here

>deconstruction
LOL

Flintstones is not a part of DC's main line, so it won't have the same expectation as those. It'll be like Scooby doo, He man, thundercats or looney tunes.

Flintstones is selling pretty well for what it is

Not much can be done for people like that

...

I don't think satire like it or Prez is going to age that well. How many comedy books in general are hailed as classics?

It's already been confirmed they're just using the name to cover the identity of another character.

>YFW when Centipede gets the dial

Not really sure what the cut off date is before something can be called a classic, but if we're just talking about comics from the current decade then:

>Marvel
Fractions Hawkeye
Journey into Mystery
Uncanny X-Force
Thor: God of Thunder
Vision
Moon Knight (2014)
Ms. Marvel
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (unfortunately)

>DC
Omega Men
Snyders Batman
Morrisons Batman
University
John's Green Lantern

>Image
Saga
The Walking Dead (unfortunately)
Prophet
Glory

Providence will also probably achieve classic status among Moore fans.

Without equivocation this is the best ongoing series Marvel has published in the past decade. It is also easily the best X-thing since X-Statix ended.

If it weren't for the Otherworld arc it would be a total 10/10. As it stands it's an 8 for me. Still think it counts though.

...

Begging you to lose weight

Honestly, if Otherworld had different art it woulda jived much better.

Good joke

Man, I loved Uber.
But it just kept going. I think the writing quality is still as good as it was in the beginning, I just got tired of seeing the Nazi's keep winning.
Tankman Patton was based
I agree actually. I was pretty hyped for it, I love Captain Britain and the premise seemed interesting, but it was fucking impossible to tell what was going on.

>Fury: my war gone by
Imo it's better than his Punisher work.

THIS

this will be

Facts. Stray Bullets is already a cult classic but time will tell.

I'll third that.

the first issue of omega men is 90% alienese and singing

wtf are you talking about? Dial H is really not a very difficult or inaccessible comic. Boy chimney was a little bit hard to understand but apart from that it's completely accessible

hello retard do you think that your criticism is at all relevant when we are talking about what becomes a classic and what doesnt? pretty sure miracleman was written out of character by alan moore too, as was swamp thing, as was animal man by grant morrison!!

incredibly stupid opinions friends, im pretty sure watchmen minus subtlety and craftsmanship and with extra universe bullshit will be a big hit!!

hahahaha, have you even read any that aren't from image? do you really think that the british invasion writers were the people making masterpiece non-cape comics twenty to thirty years ago?

Leaving aside all the batshit insanity, concepts of identity, historical allusions, and quantum fuckery at a baseline the dialogue is decidedly more literary and obtuse than your average cape comic.

How accessible is this for someone that hasn't read any X-Men? I plan on reading X-Statix and the like some day though...

Some of the characters spoke in unusual ways, but the truth is that Dial H was a much more immediately accessible read than Omega Men, the first arc is literally trying to stop a bad guy from fucking up the city. The first arc of Omega Men is in media res alienese subterfuge, it is less accessible.

literally all you need to know is that it comes right after the Avengers Vs X-Men event, where Cyclops killed the father of the main character (Charles Xavier) under the influence of a cosmic entity. The rest of the continuity stuff is just little references for fun (some of them go back to the fucking golden age), its of no importance to the story.

Sadly, Stray bullets isn't well recognised by even Image fans, in spite of being the best Image comic.

It would be great if Marvel didn't hadn't cut the first volume short with Secret Wars, and constantly bog down volume 2 with tie-ins.

>in spite of being the best Image comic.
Not anymore.

Listen, we get you like Dial H, but this cognitive dissonance trying to pretend it's the most accessible, most beloved, most heralded comic of all time is just embarrassing. It's okay to like it anyway. Being inaccessible isn't a flaw.

Apparently it's quite subtle indeed if the only thing you managed to take out of it is "extra universe bullshit."

A story doesn't need to inaccessible or have a crazy plot to be good. You seem to be one of those mievillefags who thinks Mieville writes some high literature or fantasy is a good genre. Both and have a simplistic plot, and are still better than Dial H due to character driven stories. Omega men had much better storytelling and structure than Dial H.

where is the cognitive dissonance in that argument? are you just using Cred Forums words without understanding them? of course it is not the most accessible comic of all time, but its significantly more accessible than omega men. Like i said, the first arc is literally stuffed with easily recognizable superhero iconography, from the changing to the hero form in the phone booth, to the standard "saving the city" finale. the comic is intentionally as accessible as possible, whereas omega men was just tom king doing his thing for 12 issues, and it isn't an accessible read. Yes issue 10 of Dial H is probably a more complex read than issue 10 of omega men, but when we are talking specifically about accessibility we have to look at the first few issues and see which ones are easier to read.

what i am saying is that the comic is watchmen with less subtlety and craftsmanship, but more references to other comic books that you have to buy to understand the full story (extra universe bullshit)

Then what is?

72E

What would you recommend?

More than one person are talking about the comic you small-minded fuck.

>Only one issue released yet
It's either bait or you're a memenderfag with shit taste.

current: michael deforge, olivier schrauwen, david mazzuchelli, matthew thurber, johnny ryan, jose domingo, david b., look into kramers ergot too

older: guy colwell, chris ware, daniel clowes (ice haven is his best but death ray is his most accessible and among his best), the various people from zap comix, weirdo and RAW (some big names here such as robert crumb, art spiegelman, charles burns), countless others that arent springing to mind (consider buying the collections called Newave! or Treasury of Minicomics)

Although the superhero iconography is a reason I've cited as Dial H being worth of classic consideration I think you are oversimplifying it to a large degree. An overweight chain-smoking 30 year old teaming up with a seventy-year old woman to save the day using technology developed by Alexander Graham Bell that transfers identities between dimensions in a random and chaotic manner is much harder to wrap one's head around than a fairly straightforward intergalactic space politics story where the only mystery comes from unknown motivations. I think accessibility also has to do with being comfortable, and Omega Men is much more comfortable than Dial H too.

>watchmen
>subtle

>no one outside of Cred Forums talks about it
they gave it a deluxe HC, so people did talk about it

>An overweight chain-smoking 30 year old teaming up with a seventy-year old woman to save the day using technology developed by Alexander Graham Bell that transfers identities between dimensions in a random and chaotic manner
That's fairly straightforward, pal. And like the user pointed out, issue "1 of OM is 80% alien speak. Being accessible/inaccessible is about the execution, not the ideas you use. Dial H #1 is easier to follow than Omega Men #1.

Is this Remender's X-Force?

David Mazzucchelli isn't doing anything currently, he's in the wrong list.

>An overweight chain-smoking 30 year old
what does the bmi of the main character have to do with the accessibility of the comic?
>a seventy-year old woman
what does the age of the secondary character have to do with the accessibility of the comic?
>using technology developed by Alexander Graham Bell
what does the name of the man who developed the telephone have to do with the accessibility of the comic? (he didnt even invent dials btw)
>transfers identities between dimensions in a random and chaotic manner
this is not relevant in the first arc, which is the most important part wrt accessibility, furthermore it is not an inaccessible concept because there was an entire issue dedicated to explaining the concept in a simple and accessible way.

Omega Men is less accesible, it REQUIRES close reading to understand what is happening, with no exposition, whereas Dial H can in fact be enjoyed as just a weird superhero story without any consideration of its depths, especially for the first arc.

well asterios polyp came out recently and that is the only thing by him that i am recommending. probably should have just said asterios polyp desu. the other stuff is all 90s at the earliest, although a couple of them are still going today.

Yep. Cover to issue four.

That arc isn't even bad.

Man. I've heard great things about it, I love Remender, and managed to get the omnibus.
Pretty stupid of me to keep delaying it. I'll begin it this weekend.
Quick question, do I need to read anything before or just dive right in?

Just because Omega Men is filled with alien speak doesn't mean you can't follow what is happening and understand exactly where the story is going based on context. And the language that is supposedly inaccessible is overt to an almost absurd degree.

Stray Bullets is like 20 years old

For sure. You can just skip Whedon and jump straight into Yost and Remender.

>An overweight chain-smoking 30 year old teaming up with a seventy-year old woman to save the day using technology developed by Alexander Graham Bell that transfers identities between dimensions in a random and chaotic manner
Wow, this sounds very wacky in addition to being quite random. Would you like to hold up a spork?

>Quick question, do I need to read anything before or just dive right in?
Short answer is no. It's nearly entirely self-contained. You'll get the exposition you need.

Long answer is, yes.
You'll get more of the homages if you've read Age of Apocalypse and its 10 year Anniversary mini, the Dark Phoenix Saga for some thematic homages, and then basically anything and everything to do with Archangel and Wolverine.

So, go with the short answer and dive in.

Actually, no, wait. DO read the Assault on Weapon Plus arc from Morrison's run. It's really short, and maybe you already have.

>Whedon
Why do people pretend to like Astonishing again?

Cause it's good

China Mieville is better at getting you into a story than Tom King is. He's just a better writer. Period point blank. Any book he writes this is going to be the case. However this isn't the only reason that Dial H is more accesable and comfortable than Omega Men. Omega Men is intentionally difficult to get into. It drops you into a long running inter-planetary conflict using the equally confused Kyle Rayner as the audience's lens. It's supposed to be completely chaotic and mysterious.
Dial H starts as an offbeat Superhero story and rises to an interdimensional wild ride.
I don't know if you've read Dial H to be quite honest, if this is your take on the two series. Sounds like you just read the wikipedia.

I have new printing of New X-Men omni coming in 2 weeks.
I'll read that thing first then since that is already on my to read list.

>Got the Omni
>hasn't read it

of course you *can* but its significantly more difficult to do so than it normally is in the average comic

Cassady's art is 10/10 and makes all the action sequences amazing

>Did David Aja carry Matt Fraction on this run?
Yes, actually. In that Bendis book about writing comicbooks, Fraction says they went with the Marvel method for Hawkeye.

That's a good joke.

>tfw i have the omnibus

Once again, exposition does not equal accessibility. I'm not sure why the right panel is supposedly harder to grasp, especially when three out of four of the phrases in English allude to familiar comic concepts. The reason I singled out those details is because they are weird, and it's harder to get someone to relate to a protagonist who is so overtly depressing and most likely makes the reader feel bad about themselves and a secondary character who by all measurable accounts has nothing in common with the average comic book fan. Dial H goes out of its way to be a substantially jarring experience on multiple levels, whereas Omega Men is just deliberately withholding information in order to cultivate a mystery that doesn't amount to much.

tbqh, I really don't like NXM, but it's definitely "worth reading"
If you've got the UXF one you really may as well jump in. The one arc in NXM will have you up to speed faster for the second arc, but you'll be fine if you're not a complete idiot.

It's not a joke

Actually, you can't. It's written in such a way that it grabs your attention and hooks you in but tells you very little. The early chapters are far easier to follow after you finish the series than they were when you first read them.

I've had the Doom Patrol omni for a year and still haven't read it

Hmm, that's a fair point.

I just can't stand his blockjaws. It's like JRJR, but even more aggravating.

The only chaotic and mysterious aspect of Omega Men is what the political and personal motivations of the characters are. The difficulty of understanding it doesn't come from grasping abstract concepts or imagery that can be interpreted in multiple ways, but simply how the pieces of a political story we've seen countless times are going to fall in to place. It's an alien war story with different factions and never deviates from that rigid concept. Dial H has the true undercurrent of chaos and unpredictability from the get go, and although it starts small, I have no idea how you could call it a more comfortable and accessible story.

Why are you two arguing over which is better when they are both good works and which one you like more is entirely subjective? Fuck off, you are ruining the thread.

people don't need relateable characters, its not the same as when you're 5 and you like bart simpson because he is funny. Nelson is easy to understand (therefore accessible) and another character literally starts the comic off by telling him things about himself entirely for the readers' benefit. none of that in omega men.

it was a good deal so i pulled the trigger
still have so much in unread queue

If you arent reading an issue a night before bed you are doing it wrong. Thats 365 issues a year.

>issue a night
I read at least 10 issues a day
on weekends I've read as many as 30 issues in one day
still, the backlog just won't go away

Can you post some examples? This doesn't resonate with me, but I immediately knew what you were talking about with JRjr
Regardless, I don't think faces should effect your enjoyment of art that good.

The backlog never goes away friend. The trick is to not order something til youve read the thing you ordered previously. Also how new are you to the medium that you have that much content to wade through? I've had to turn my attention to French publishers and fantagraph cause I've read everything by the big 2, Vertigo and Image. Enjoy it while it last. You

I love both Dial H and Omega Men, but definitely Dial more. Comparing my first readings of each #1, Dial H was way more accessible (OM had the issue with the separate preview and the first issue being chaotic and low on narration, not that I'm complaining because it was an interesting storytelling choice). That being said, OM quickly became more consistent and lucid while Dial went off the experimental end. Take a random issue from the end of OM and a random issue from the end of Dial and OM will be more accessible.

OM will be regarded as a classic while Dial H will continue being a cult hit. Personally, I prefer Dial and think it did more with the genre, but OM will be more influential in the long run. Mieville is more a Milligan to King's Moore or Morrison.

Also, I'm a political science student so Omega Men really wasn't that novel or inspirational to me, but I do respect King for bringing new perspectives to the medium.

Accessibility is not a one-to-one with how easy it is to understand the characters in the first issue. Starting a story in media res and using an abundance of alien language does not automatically mean there is depth behind it or that it will be difficult to grasp beyond a superficial level, just like starting a story in a straightforward manner doesn't preclude it from having depth or being off-putting in other ways.

accessibility literally has nothing to do with the depth of the comic

>The only chaotic and mysterious aspect of Omega Men is what the political and personal motivations of the characters are
That's what actually matters. Having a monster appear from the lilsorandom dimension in search of the cvgzrd crystal si he can remake our dimension just like his is not hard to understand, just quirky. A simple secret agent character that doesn't speak much and doesn't make it clear what his motivations are makes for a harder to follow story even if you're just using humans and you're trying to tell a fairly realistic series.

What new perspectives do you think King brought because I'm no poli-sci major but it seemed like one of the more cliche war stories I've read recently.

e.g. watchmen is accessible but has plenty of depth, multiversity is inaccessible but has much less depth

All his faces are just so square. It bothers me more on him because the rest of his bodies/muscles have more variety and are less stylized, but the faces always throw me.

JRJR's got the hatching which sorta softens his faces, but with Cassaday it always seemed even more samefacey in the context of the rest of his art.

King actually has done real shit in his life before writing comics

>He's above the panels at the end.

Reading for a while, but recently decided to get into marvel, starting with classic marvel. That's where most of my backlog comes from.

How is an allegory for the Iraqi war and every time America has invaded a country a cliche? There is not a lot of books in the comics medium that address that.

Not that guy, but it was more about Kyle's experience than telling a big space epic or being some sort of a political thriller.

I don't know how you can argue that a story with more depth generally means it is less accessible to the average audience.

What's new about that? Even Kirby made war comics after fighting in actual wars.

Intergalactic political quagmires where the hero or heroes get in over their heads are some of the oldest sci-fi and comic stories.

>OM will be regarded as a classic while Dial H will continue being a cult hit. Personally, I prefer Dial and think it did more with the genre, but OM will be more influential in the long run. Mieville is more a Milligan to King's Moore or Morrison.
This.

Really my biggest peeve with Dial H is how they treated Mieville from an editorial perspective. The story being cut short doesn't inherently bother me, and the way it was handled was good, but cutting his story short was fucking idiotic from a business perspective. They had a Hugo, British Fantasy, Stoker award winner writing for them. That's talent more acclaimed than Gaiman. I know he didn't sell that well on Dial H but what if he comes back after enjoying his writing experience with DC and has an idea for a Batman or Superman story? That would sell like gangbusters. I doubt he'll ever want to write for the big two again.

*argue against the idea

This is an imageboard, post some examples. I'm disagreeing pretty hard here from my memory. The Drummer, Snow, and that James Bond expy have really different looks in my mind.

Thats not what the story is about at all. Its never presented as Kyle being in over his head. Its about how nothing is black and white and their are shades of grey to everything and how even the most righteous of causes can turn into something bad and corrupt even the noblest of souls. Maybe you need to reread it.

Again not knowing character motivations doesn't automatically mean a story is harder to follow, just that there are unknowns involved.

Oh, fuck, forgot my image

That is the most boilerplate cliche war story imaginable. Also look up quagmire.

>Its never presented as Kyle being in over his head
Are you serious? Kyle is tricked and yanked around for most of the story, and then cannot end the war on his own with the power of the White Lantern ring. In what way is this not over his head?

Unknowns involved=harder to follow

That's late Cassaday. He draw totally better on x men

Unknowns involved=unknowns involved

>post 2010 Cassady
Oh yea he definitely has that issue now. He's shit now. (actually he was complete shit, but has been improving little by little

See there in lies your problem. You keep implying that because its a "cliche" that its bad. Watchmen was a cliche of heroes being morally grey and it is held in very high regard.

Good post.

It's still there though, not as pronounced, but I can't help notice it

Cliches aren't automatically bad, but not when you simply regurgitate them and add nothing new to the conversation.

Kyle never seems worried about it or that he is in over his head. In fact throughout the story his resolve stays strong and he never once considers abandoning his mission.

Because he's a fucking Green Lantern obviously he won't collapse, that'd be terrible writing going completely against his character. Handling being over one's head well does not mean one is not in over his head

Its not though. Movies and tv are not comics.

There have been a million war is grey stories in comics friend.

...

We're not arguing over which is better, we're arguing which will be held in more of a "classic" status, which basically proves that both are really good and will be held in high regard.
Bring up another modern comic that will be considered a classic if you want to divert the tide of the thread, don't just bitch

There have been a million *any story* in comics, friend.

Were talking specifically not generally

For one thing there's the god-tier panelling. Did you know the entire series is symmetrical? (With the exception of number #4 and number #9, partially because 4 had a guest artist, partially as to not spoil the countdown effect in 9)

Hence the term cliche.

Fucking this. At least it's getting an omnibus now, that speaks of some recognition

user I read Legacy with literally zero X-perience, and it's one of the best comics I've ever read

Oh my god the paneling! Who would have ever thought of doing 3x3s? Such a unique perspective on things!

Tried and true is a self explanatory concept user.

You seem like you are 15. Maybe you just aren't old enough to know no idea is new. Saying things are cliche or that stories happened before literally applies to everything.

But it's not just 3x3s. Every issue is entirely symmetrical, along with the series as a whole, as I said. That takes a lot more effort than just laying down some grids. And it's not done like that purely to show off either. Sometimes it drives the plot and it plays into some of the key themes of the comic.

Watchmen is fucking famous for using symmetrical 3x3 grids. Are you 15? Taking a concept from one of the most influential cape comics ever is far from innovation.

Learn to read mate. Nothing is innovative.

The comment is supporting that the paneling in Omega Men is a "new perspective" which is pretty much a synonym for "innovative".
Look at the posts it links through

The Goon. It should already be up there with all the greats.

There's really no need for any more Lovecraft-riff after this. Moore really dropped the mic on the Mythos with this.

Idc what that post links to I read it. My point is your entire argument is invalid because nothing is new or innovative, every story has been done before, that doesnt mean it can't be retold and be a great story.

The tightest example of long-form storytelling I've seen since the hayday of Vertigo.

Oh go fuck yourself, someone made a claim that it was new, people are saying it isn't. No one is saying it's bad.

But he takes that concept and utilizes it in a different way. He doesn't go into much detail with the symmetry as Alan Moore does in Watchmen #5, but, again, he takes that idea and makes it not only true for every single issue, but also for the series as a whole, along with using that symmetry to actively affect the pacing and tie in to the themes of the story.

I love Chew but Fear Agent, Bone, Promethea and Planetary still exist.
That's just off the top of my head

I liked Fear Agent but it had its problems.

Howso? I think in terms of pacing and plotting it was great

It's doing 19k, way less compared to Future Quest and Scooby.

>It's almost over

This was one of the first Image ongoings I actually started buying. It's weird to think it's ending in less than 5 issues.

Watchmen didn't invent 3x3, Giffen was using it earlier and Ditko in the fucking 60s. Goes to show you how you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Pacing was my issue. Seriously series is just one set of events after another and it gets tiresome in a long for storytelling if every issue/arc is just twist after twist. It's running through its premise and could've used a lot of breather issues. Also there's a huge cast of characters but they're all very one note except for MC and not many of them have a character development. Not that it matters since the book pretty much resets itself and it's not a complaint.
Remender likes writing cynical assholes, I just wish he'd take the time to ground his characters a bit. For example in an issue of X-force Fantomex mother is killed before his eyes and the plotting is so fucking hectic that there isn't even a single page dedicated to reflect on that development. It's a shock death that just ends up being a shock death instead of being a chance to ground and give development to the character. Same thing happens throughout Fear Agent. I don't mind it that much in X-force considering it's a WFH and I haven't completed the series yet but things like that are the some basic problems I have with his writing. He's still quickly becoming one of my favorite writer but I can't really say he's a great writer.
Sorry for slightly off topic rant.

Obviously it didn't invent it, Dave Sim used it a lot too, but it definitely popularized *symmetrical* (which is what we were talking about here) 3x3 in mainstream capes

Fear Agent had like 3 twists though.
Heath fucked the squishies, the girl partner being a traitor and then Tetald jacking the timeline.

>could've used a lot of breather issues
How did you read it. Because Tales of the Fear Agent served as this in the digital version I read but in the collections I have they're relegated to the back of the collection.

There are less twists and more constant plot developments.
I read the tpbs that collected 5 issues or so.

Do you remember if they included the "Tales of the Fear Agent" Stories? The shorts about Heath doing random mercenary shit?

Not in the trades. Maybe they did in library editions?

In the Library Editions they're in the back of the book though. They don't function as breather stories. They work really well to help with the pacing you're talking about

Yeah 19k by issue 2 isn't great. We have the solicitations until December and issue 6 wasn't marked as Final Issue. I'm hoping it goes until 12

They're definitely banking for trade/bookstore sales for these books.

I felt the Omega Men ending was a little rushed and couldn't make some of its points well enough. I Understand that one of the things King was going for was the unending nature of war and suffering and conflict, but he basically told us that instead of showing us. This made me feel like the point wasnt made as strongly as it could've.

There hasn't been a culturally relevant comic book since The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen came out.

Maus, Persepolis, etc., plenty of the ones that commonly get recommended in college classes came out afterwards. Or at least Maus finished after both of those, even if it started before.

not big two so those don't count

This user gets it.

Pretty sure that already is considered a classic. It came out over a decade ago and has received nothing but praise, I think it's gonna be alright.

What's Spurrier even doing now?

This and Nextwave

my muggas

probably second best one in the thread after Omega Men

Why is Vision the only one with his modern look?

>ITT: flavor of the months
there is no possible way that Omega Men will be considered a classic

You know what will be considered a classic? Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel. She's one of the first new and lasting heroes in Marvel's roster in a long time. Pax Americana will be considered a classic as a self-contained issue that will often be brought up in "are comics any good???" threads

Omega Men, who the fuck cares about Kyle Rayner? Most people don't even know what the comic is about, much less are willing to ask for recommendations regarding it.

>You know what will be considered a classic? Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel

Stopped reading right there

Read joe Sacco and shut up.

For the user saying stuff in Omega Men isn't new or has been done or cliché, please name me 5 modern Political War comics that are somewhat good and treat these subjects as the main themes of the books. Post Moore/Miller there was a surge of writers injecting cold war politics as a backdrop in DC, a lot of Batman, Suicide Squad, Captain Atom touched on it but they still remained the basic comics that used these elements because it was the new thing to do. It died down in the 90s and 2000s completely aside from some half hearted attempts like Civil War. None of these comics treated these subject matters with as much depth and intricacy as Omega Men. Omega Men in every sense a political war soap opera done right in comics format.

Sheriff of Babylon :^)

>Moving goal posts

I'm not going to waste my time thinking of five but of the top of my head there's an arc in Kelly's JLA I read recently that doesn't specifically deal with the fallout from war but is a direct example of the intergalactic politics found in Omega Men. It's really not a unique story, superheroes have been inserting themselves into alien political situations and get in over their heads since the silver age.

As pointed out repeatedly to you that is the shallowest explanation of Omega Men you could give. Its readily apparent you havent read it. You maybe browsed the storytime.

>I'm not going to waste my time thinking of five
Don't say shit like this and
>superheroes have been inserting themselves into alien political situations and get in over their heads since the silver age.
this. Also your understanding of Omega Men is really fucking shallow.

I read it all buddy. Boilerplate war is hell bullshit.

Kek your reading comprehension is severly lacking. The message behind the book was good intentions can lead to cruel outcomes.

Not a unique idea about war at all.

You have to be 18 to post here. Sounds like babies second year reading comics. You cant make statements like that and not back them up. Its obvious you saying its been done before clearly spawns from movies and tv shows youve watched.

I've read a fair amount of DC over the years, including a little of Johns' GL and I thought the first issue of Omega Men was impenetrable.

Yeah, it was the urtext for the entire last three years of Marvel and they're still trying to recapture it.

How many under 18 year olds have read Kelly's JLA you insecure fuck? If you were over 18 you'd know the themes of Omega Men are not unique in the slightest and are commonly found over a wide variety of media, including comics.

It's one of the top five X-runs all time.

1) UXM: Claremont + Byrne
2) UXM: Claremont + Smith
3) NXM: Morrison + Quitely
4) UXF: Remender + Opena
5) NM: Claremont + sienkiewicz

For The Boys I think that goes double. A lot of people either too casual to know who Ennis even is and for others who are past that barrier they assume it's an edgelord's take on superheroes and wrote it off. Which don't get me wrong, it's edgy as fuck. But only recently (or maybe just observer bias) have I been seeing talk about what a marvelous story once you dig into it.

get that dumb bitch out of here

you put number 1 at the bottom with a 5 next to it for some reason

pick 2 of Byrne, Smith, and JrJr is murdering me

Might be too soon to call but Priestroke would definitely be a classic considering the demand of the character and there aren't enough good Deathsroke stories.
The comic you listed use it as a very slight undertones. Also something doesn't have to be unique to be great.
>including comics
Which you've failed to mention.

I think the issue with Uber and providence is that Avatar's artwork is kind of generic. They're amazing books that would be on a different level promotion-wise if they were at Vertigo or Image and had more distinctive or accomplished art. I contributed to the Kickstarter, though, so hopefully I'm contributing to something that'll end in an accomplished way.

Smith's run is best run. Those issues are perfect superhero soap opera comics. I didn't put JRjr on the list because I don't like those stories as much. His art is quite good, though.

Silvestri and Lee should get consideration for historical importance alone. Silvestri co-created a lot of characters and Lee defined a decade of superhero comics with just a few issues.

Omega Men's alright.

People seem to be forcing it into legendary status like a meme though, which I can't understand. There's nothing groundbreaking about it, it's just good comics.

Is it only great in comparison to the rest of the New 52, and the current Big 2 output of comics? That's the only reason I can think it's been elevated to such a status.

That speaks volumes for your reading comprehension skills.

no

You're right dude, King is the first person to have the creative genius to put forward concepts like moral relativism and politics on an intergalactic scale. Never been done before.

This is good but not that many people talk about it. Wish Rick himself would follow up on it, not confident that Duggan will do the decision justice

I really liked the first arc of Dial H but felt the second arc and multiversal section of the finale to be a little rushed. The first arc was well paced and each issue was nicely compact with good climaxes for each issue and read like a good serialized story. The second half of Dial H seemed to have a lot more ambition and scope to be explored but had to be compressed into a 6-issue format due to sales or other factors. I like them both, but this is one of the biggest things that bugs me about Dial H and why I think Omega Men is a bit stronger as a whole.

Don't throw your opinions like facts then boy if you can't even come up with a few decent examples.

Indieshit

I thought Cred Forums liked good comics

does anyone read COPRA

I've been meaning to

Cred Forums only likes to shit on things other people like. What's the fun in liking something unless you get to say it's superior to everything else? We're such a shithole.