How come western cartoons don't have 90 second opening and ending credits sequences like anime...

If I remember correctly, Kids WB only aired the full PE&tB intro once.

>CRY FOR THE MOON

The reason anime does this is because they get current popular musicians to compose the opening and ending credit themes and the longer animations are mainly to advertise the songs and convince people (Namely weebs) to buy them on cds.

Western networks don't care about that and just want more time for commercials so they make their intros as short as possible. A 90 second intro in a western show would only take that much time away from the actual episode.

because statistically a couple thousands of dollars are wasted for every second of intro used due to screen time being wasted and commercial time missed.
Also the massive paycheck the intro-maker every time its on air. This includes the designer, the editor, the theme maker and etc. Japan is stingy as fuck and doesnt pay anyone well. So they have those amazing intros

If you're watching a marathon on Netflix it just skips the intros anyway.

I like anime openings mostly because i found some good music from there.

But there is some catchy music in anime openings and it is not always rock

What you just said is equivalent to saying that you have bad taste in music.

>weebs
You do know what that means right? Japs cant be weebs and they dont care about west in anime industry

cause they're not pretentious bullshit

But i like some japanese music. And it is always j-pop and what is with Cred Forums and hate anything that is from japan?

*it is not always

Also sets the mood for the rest of the show. BTAS, STAS, and Justice League had good OPs. Less effort just goes into Western cartoons, all around, these days; most obvious in the quality of the art.

Not to many Western cartoons with a good OST, either. No composer's become Yuki Kaijura famous off of music in Western cartoons.

Now I know you ain't talking shit on the best opening song of all time
youtu.be/AMqRdsPahWk

Cuts into commercial time.
Also nobody really cares. Most TV shows don't do anything like that anymore anyway, why should cartoons be any different just because the ones from Japan do it?

There is good music from Japan. Japan is a large nation of over 100 million people, they are capable of doing stuff. But anime music is pretty bad, I won't say all of it because obviously that hyperbole as well, but except for Cowboy Bebop or so, every time anime fans recommended me music it was pretty bad.

Break out!

You just have to make the openings and endings commercials for music like anime does.

>best opening song of all time
That's not even the best JoJo opening song

Try again.
youtube.com/watch?v=Aw3fN3OPk3A

99% of everything is bad, but sometimes you get lucky and manage to find the good stuff. Like this for example.
youtube.com/watch?v=x-u-ISaOfS4

>sets the mood for the rest of the show.

Complete fallacy. Not mentioning how constantly opening songs in anime are changed during a show's run, it's mostly popular songs of the moment that usually couldn't have anything less to with the show they're paired with.

That's not evangelion

I don't know, I'm not a fan of most Anime Openings, they can be really cringy most of the time. I'd rather cartoons not try to imitate each other and try do something unique.

How is, "music sets the mood," a fallacy? And anime openings, despite being changed often, follow a pattern. In action shows its a high in energy OP, followed by a somber ED, to say nothing of OPs like "We Are" that are specifically made for the show, or others such as the OPs for Higurashi, Monster, or Another that are made specifically to be unsettling for a show attempting to be the same. Moeshit gets cutesy OPs for the same reason. Justice League got an epic OP, because that's the tone the creators wanted to go for.

Anime openings and endings are often done by real bands and there's a whole marketing structure behind them where they'll release singles of the songs and etc.
Openings and endings are an integral part of the commercialization of the show. That and they'll often use the opening and/or ending to advertise the show's sponsors.

Meanwhile, here, opening and endings only take away time from commercial breaks and work directly against the commercialization of the show, which is why most everybody nowadays just skip them or keep them as short as possible, to maximize profits.

If we had an opening/ending industry where we used those to advertize bands and sell singles and such like in Japan, you can be sure we'd have a plethora of 90 seconds OPs/EDs, but the fact is that, even when they're made by legitimate bands, Western OPs/EDs don't (generally) have any kind of impact on the band's overall growth and profit.

Like, who the fuck remembers The Tender Box? They did a really good job making a catchy intro for SSM youtube.com/watch?v=7SpWAnBjdNg but I don't think they made a killing selling singles of that song.

Meanwhile groups like Lotus Juice and JAM Project actually do make a living out of anime music (among other projects)

That could work, but, we're so set in our ways at this point; short openings and endings are now just normal cultural thing for us.

Plus, it wouldn't really work over here, because cartoons don't get a fair shake when it comes to being taken semi-seriously. Still kid's stuff.

Which is kinda weird, seeing how
"geek culture" and shit like that is on the rise among millennials. But, hey, maybe HotDog Hoedown changed some things, whoo knows.

>implying anime OP's aren't catchy
youtube.com/watch?v=HL25C0H9vVw
youtube.com/watch?v=FQf-NkWz7Yo
youtube.com/watch?v=t9CXmEUwvgM
youtube.com/watch?v=visla0hz1pg
youtube.com/watch?v=Ie1l2kLGyJE

You're doing God's work, user. Don't let any weeb's "UMM ACTUALLY"ing get you down.

See you say that, but I've watched anime on actual Japanese tv and not just the episodes online. They have a FUCKTON of commercials.

Clearly that's not the issue.

Sorry man, but all I see is
youtube.com/watch?v=yhAeVfpy_Mo

It used to be the case, back in the day. Hell they used to be just like anime in that the opening had WAY better animation than the show itself (Thundercats being the biggest example).

In fairness JAM Project only releases like, one song a year, sometimes 2 if Garo is airing that season, and that's why it works.

Not him, but then you're ignorant. And I do mean ignorant and not stupid because I don't think you're stupid, you're just basing your preconceptions on a lack of knowledge. It's impossible to summarize a medium that's been around for 50 years in one general form.

Probably the same reason most television shows dropped that shit in general: People have short attention spans, it could be used for one more minute of actual show content, and anticipation of syndication.

Because Japan did the animation back then.

>In fairness JAM Project only releases like, one song a year
And yet they still all sound exactly the same to me. JAM Project was sooo overrated by weebs in the mid-oughties, which was the pinnacle of their obnoxiousness, so that's partially why I feel that way. That said, Psychic Lover is objectively better..

>using a self-hating weeb to fire back at weebs
You drink from fouled waters, friend.

>And yet they still all sound exactly the same to me.

That's whenever Kageyama writes the song. He's the worst at it. Saviour in the Dark is still their best song.

DESU sempai, I was just looking for an excuse to post that video and your post was right there. I just think you deserve a non-shit-posting reply since you actually replied to me like a human being and not a strawman, and because on closer inspection, you seem to actually have patrician taste in anime I mean, I never could get into Wolf's Rain, that was one of a string of shows that I exhausted myself trying to like in the 00s before burning out on the medium, but you make up for it by liking Princess Tutu. That show don't get near enough love.

But I said I wasn't him, in fact I hated Wolf's Rain. Yoko Kanno's music was the reason ANYONE watched it. My favorite anime is Macross 7, the show everyone either loves, or hates with the fury of a thousand suns.

Because in Japan the openings are a product.
They exist as an advertisement to sell the cd single of the song, that's why they get an entirely new song every season.
Openings don't really sell like that here, so they don't bother

Damn, I realized you weren't him as soon as I sent that. I'm exhausted, it's quarter till four in the morning, Cred Forums thinks my post is spam and I don't know what I'm doing with my life. And I only saw some clips of Macross 7, but I think SDF Macross is one of the all-time overrated sacred cows of anime, so I can't imagine it "ruined the franchise's good name" like some fanboys cried.

No, Macross for what it is, is a very well-made show, used its episode count extremely well, and made a show that at the time was wholly original.

7 is hated for reasons unrelated to SDF, it's because a lot of people, especially in the west, despise the main character Basara. ESPECIALLY if the viewer has themselves been in a band, because often they knew a guy like him. The Axl Rose of band members. And the show is structured such that all of his actions become completely vindicated.

Probabily some Cred Forumsnons will hate me but I skip everytime the anime intros after watching them one or two times....so not a big deal. Also in my country the show with little horses has a long anime styled intro, if you're interested in that cartoon

But frank is half japanese

Exactly, he's upset because they would never accept a halfu.

Cred Forumsnon here, i used to skip openings too and only 2 years ago i stopped skip them

Well Regular Show's extremely short opening titles are a result of Cartoon Network asking for a really short theme song.

youtube.com/watch?v=z6i1VVikRu0

We prefer to focus on the actual series instead.

...

But you can still watch show even if there is opening

Anime uses its Openings and endings as way of promoting a group and sell singles, this is why they are almost always barely related to the anime itself and are about generic shit like love.

yes, in the 80's when cartoons were mainly toy adds, the openings hav a theme song and cool animation, however they usually used a jingle-like song.

Now cartoons barely sell toys and kids barely BUY toys so there is no use, you can show adds for cool stuff like, i dont know, Samsung bullshit?!

So that explains the Japanese opening for the X-Men.

I actually kinda like this system

SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK

/thread

Which anime do you watch on TV? Most late-night anime, aka Cred Forums shit, will have commercials consist entirely of advertisements for other products by the same studio. For example, back when Haruhi season 2 was airing, you'd get an ad for the official soundtrack, an ad for the DVDs, an ad or two of another Kadokawa/Kyoani work, and that was pretty much it. Sometimes there will be one or two major sponsors who paid the upfront costs for the series, so they'll get an ad or two, also.

That's because in Japan, late night anime is basically paid programming. The studio has to buy the timeslot, then they're free to do whatever the hell they want with the whole half hour. Instead of selling to a network and having the network sell commercial space, anime is made on a cheap budget and recoups its costs with merchandise sales.

>namely weebs
Yes, surely a small and ill-defined group of Americans are the primary target audience that Japanese record companies have in mind.

What you just said is a meme.

Having seen Cowboy Bebop doesn't make you an expert on anime OP and ED music.

Anime songs are made for or released in conjunction with the anime, and for the most part they are not particularly popular music. They do often clearly relate to the show they're made for, and I would even guess that most of them are. A lot of them are also sung by the voice actors, and thus definitely made for the show.

I wasn't saying it does. I am saying that out of the dozens of songs I have had anime fans tell me are good or great anime songs they are uniformly bad.

This is only talking about intro/outros. The question of the actual scores are different and I will admot to having next to no knowledge of them.

In other words you have no actual experience, and in any case you are just shitting on anime songs just because they're anime songs. Same old story.

I have the experience of anime fans recommending me a fairly sizable amount of music. At what point is it valid to form an opinion?

You people are unwilling and unable to form valid opinions.

you literally said in your post that you have no knowledge of actual anime music scores, just their OP's and ED's.

And this thread was literally about opening and closing segments.

Couple reasons
-Most people don't want to spend that much on the intro
-Most people don't stay after the episode ends to watch the outro
-Need room for commercials
-Large number of anime openings/outro's aren't actually origonal but from bands and are put in the show to promote said band

Being from a band doesn't mean they aren't original to the show. Usually they are. Some bands/singers also seem to mostly revolve around anime.

>japs can't be weebs

How can a Japanese person be wannabe Japanese? That's like someone in the Army being accused of being a wannabe soldier.

you must be severely mentally challenged

Sorry about that, I'm really out of it. My mind swapped weeb with otaku. I redact my previous criticism.

Sure japs can be otakus and as much as i hate western anime fanbase i would still say that otakus are much worse

Even though OPs and EDs serve the purpose of advertising music they can also be good works of animation on their own, like mini music videos.

dailymotion.com/video/x1tudy_noir-opening_fun
youtube.com/watch?v=hVMJxT3O9qA
youtube.com/watch?v=X3vKI_HWYNQ
youtube.com/watch?v=7tyVHIoV0Uw

When Westerners complain about "otaku," they are almost always complaining about people that don't actually exist.

But otakus does exist and all those shitstorms prove it. Remember voice of Honoka in Love Live got rumored that she was in porn ones and all those otakus were butthurt about it

The "otaku" that Westerners talk about rarely exist. They are fiction.

Well yes, it's gotta be a new and upcoming single in order to both promote the band and have a new product to sell.
Tv is heavily commercialized in Japan because it's not illegal to show tie-in merchandise commercials during the commercial breaks for the same show like it is in North America.

American networks and legislators seem to have come up with a lot of ways of hamstringing television.

So what are those otakus that dont exist?

Just curious, do you prefer the long extended stuff anime does or practically no intro most modern cartoons do these days? I think 45-60secs is fine some old cartoons did where fine.

They aren't anything. Because they don't exist.

Well, it is pretty immoral to turn your cartoon into a half hour commercial

What's immoral about using a show to advertise something related to it?

A bit manipulative, isn't it?
It'd be like if a prime time show cut to commercials about auto insurance immediately after a big car crash happened in the show

We're talking about a show advertising merchandise, music, home video and source material.

Since cartoons these days are 11 minutes long, the short intros are fine. Just wish there were official extended versions. In a 24 minute show though, I'd rather have an intro that's a minute long at least, really. And if they really need to shove as much story as they can into the episode, they cut it down. It's been done before.

Still, children deserve to be protected from that kind of thing.
Like how it's illegal to show a toy doing something on its own unless it actually can.

But otakus does exist

In anime even shows less than 5 minutes long have 30-60 second OPs or EDs. Teekyuu has only 2 minutes total runtime, 30 seconds of it is the OP.

Protected from what?

Aggressive marketing

Why do they need to be "protected" from a show advertising toys?

>shows less than 5 minutes long have 30-60 second OPs or EDs
I'm okay with this.

MY NAME IS

But that's only around 45 seconds (for original DVD versions and possibly [as] reruns - worldwide syndication speeds up episodes considerably).

PRINCE

then you can't add them on MAL

>going to MAL

Why do some of you people think that using MAL's list feature automatically means using the forums too?

Even better, cut the opening because we don't need it.

But i like those openings if they have good songs

Cuts into advertising times, most openings are made to promote artists singles, especially if they VA on the show, and now we can generally add diminishing premier lengths. A new episode is a 12 minute short with 3 minutes of commercial right after.

Kinda sad, I'd love the idea of a minute snippet of some of our music set to a neat little music video.