Superman is not a god. There is nothing godlike about him. He is not omnipotent or omniscient...

Superman is not a god. There is nothing godlike about him. He is not omnipotent or omniscient. Asserting that he's a god just misses the entire point of the character. Stop ruining Superman with your bullshit.

This thread is most certainly guaranteed relies as always.

Gonna grab some popcorn, let's see how long this one lasts compared to other one earlier this week.

>There is nothing godlike about him.
saged
thread hidden

I tire of iqlets.

How can I ruin Superman when I am an atheist and never viewed him as God? Piss off.

>Maybe he isn't some Jesus or Devil character. Maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing.

Did the point of that scene completely fly over your head?

Well there was that one time after darkseid died.

He's a big guy, so people think he's a god. I'm going to spoil BvS for you: he isn't a god.
This guy watched the movie.

Here we go with the "BvS was 2deep4u" shitposting

Doesn't change the fact these DCEU movies treat him as a god and have imagery and characters keep making constant references to it.

>Here we go with the "BvS was 2deep4u" shitposting

>I didn't read the post i'm replying to
oh it shows

God cannot be omnipotent, omniscient and good anyway.

Sndet is obsessed with the question of "what if a man had the power of a god?" despite this having no relation to the character, and his handling of that idea is inept anyways.

A better question of Superman is "what if a man had the literal power of his convictions?" What good can be done then?

The fallacy in that is that ascribes good as a set standard.

(you)

The point is that he's like Jesus but falls short. Didn't you see Man of Steel? That trend is continued in BvS.

No it was all Eisenluthors shittily forced in atheism. It was as bad as watching Kevin Sorbo in God's Not Dead. "There are no real atheists, just people mad at God." I'm not pissed at that stupid trope, I'm pissed that it was anywhere near a Superman movie. Snyder already forced ten different arcs into that thing, he didn't need a Tumblr edgelord as well.

If good for god is not good for people, why worship him?

Sage goes in all fields

The whole point of the movie is a bunch of characters proving that he isn't a God though. This isn't 2deep4u shit, it's blatantly fucking spelled out for you.

Uh yeah he can. "Good" doesn't mean "gives me a gf." Claiming to know the eternal and unchanging form of good better than God does makes you look extremely arrogant.

Snyder isn't fucking asserting that he is a god or god like personality-wise.
He is aasserting that humanity will see him as one.
>2deep4u
How in the actual fuck is a line of dialogue that spells out its point crystal fucking clear = 2deep4u???

Why and how was he talking to his dead dad again?

kill yourself

saged

I think you're kinda sorta missing the point. Superman is portrayed as a god or at least framed like a god in shots like the OP picture, because we're supposed to be taking the perspective of the person being saved. You obviously wouldn't refer to him as a god right now, but if a man from the sky actually existed and wore a bright red cape and would swoop down to save you at a moment's notice, people might start feeling a little religious.

Strictly speaking Luthor was an antitheist, not an atheist. And while he frames his argument in terms of the Problem of Evil, it's transparently not the issue at hand. Rather the conflict between Superman and Luthor revolves around the concept of the Ubermensch.

...

If God's idea of good is incomprehensible and irreconcilable with the human's idea of good, why should we worship him again or pretend he's benevolent?

Because when you die he rips your consciousness out and lights it on fire for a trillion years if you don't.

Gods don't need to be omnipotent or omniscient. The vast majority of gods people have believed in have been neither of those two things.

>tfw that quote was quoting me

That was a good thread, actually.

Is faith born of selfish fear really what opens the door to paradise?

Who said that we had to worship him? I'm just saying an all good, all knowing and all powerful god could exist.

Do you even FEEL DA DEEP OF DESE MOMENTS

Yes.
The phrase is "God Fearing".
>Good threads
They still happen from time to time.

Snyder completely and totally missing the point of Jonathan Kent is probably the thing about his movies that makes me the angriest.

Agreed. "Savior" doesn't equal "Lord", the Chriscucks need to stop projecting their memes into everything. Just because Superman uses his tremendous powers to help people that doesn't mean he is a religious figure. He's just a guy who likes to use his powers to help people and protect people.

Why don't they make this same comparison with other characters? Is Batman a god too? (Batgod jokes aside).

I think it devalues and paradoxically overcomplicates the character of the super hero to have them compared to gods (unless they're literally gods) and especially when writers refuse to pin down what is and isn't a god. Which is something I'm working on in my own super hero universe. There is a clear cut definition of what makes someone a god or not.

>If God's idea of good is incomprehensible and irreconcilable with the human's idea of good, why should we worship him again or pretend he's benevolent?

How does the first part of your question imply the second? Just because you don't understand a physicist's or doctor's explanation of something doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to him. Plus, you can kind of understand it analogically. You can get close to the real meaning without fully understanding it.

So as someone who doesn't read comics, what IS the point of Jonathan Kent?

To be a good man from Kansas who taught Clark right from wrong and to be a good person. He's not supposed to be someone with a thing for drowning, be it horses or children.

This

>Just because Superman uses his tremendous powers to help people that doesn't mean he is a religious figure. He's just a guy who likes to use his powers to help people and protect people.
So you agree with Snyder.

>Why don't they make this same comparison with other characters? Is Batman a god too?
Due to the nature of how he operates, demon comparisons are more apt (and that's what's usually done; Snyder did this as well).

>There is a clear cut definition of what makes someone a god or not.
When has this ever not been the case in comics? It's only a confusion for people who don't read the comics. It's usually spelled out pretty blatantly when a character is a god or not.

Well, Pa Kent's character is fundamental to Clark's development. I mean, Edgelord Clark really makes sence with father like that. If Jonathan were as good as his comics version, Clark would be too.

John Kent is the moral compass that leads Clark Kent to being Superman.
His relationship to Clark is what Uncle Ben's is to Peter Parker. (Sans violent death and guilt burden)
I really don't like that John Kent is dead in the DCEU, Costner was a good casting for him.

this thread is cancer and it makes me go full marvel

i hate comic books

>The whole point of the movie is a bunch of characters proving that he isn't a God though.

Why couldn't it be just Clark proving he isn't a god?

Sometimes, I seriously feel like people that say there's nothing godlike about Superman haven't been in touch with the character since the 1960s. We've had comparisons between Superman and God / Jesus ever since Marlon Brando Jor-El's speech in the first Superman movie.

Jesus wasn't omniscient or omnipotent either, by the way.

>it's a X and Y things miss the point of the character episode

because a strongman with the power to level an entire city is any better

Maybe Clark will have more visions of him, especially now that he's "dead." Maybe he'll gain some new spirit-vision that allows him to talk whenever he wants.

>Why couldn't it be just Clark proving he isn't a god?
Nothing he can do will force others to change their perspective. It has to come naturally.

>Jesus wasn't omniscient or omnipotent either, by the way.
Yeah he was, he just lowered his power level to show humans how it's done. He could have went full ultimate Jesus mode at any time and wiped out the entire Roman army, but then nobody would have learned a thing. And hey, where's Rome now?

Pic related, Superman worshippers that showed up after the Death of Superman in the comic, saying he would return from the dead and 'save us all'.

The concept of Superman being a godlike figure to some in the DC Universe wasn't created by Snyder.

Why people have so much trouble understanding such simple scenes from these movies? This must be a troll.

You've a bunch of angry media people talking about how huge and problematic Superman is while there is also desperate people regarding Superman as their savior or miracle, all of this while Superman is seeing clearly disturbed to be seen in that kind of light due to how much weight it places on him.

What in all this says to you that the movie is trying to portray Superman as a God?

The movie is clearly showing us that Superman IS NOT A GOD. That he doesn't want to be seen that way. That he's just a normal guy trying to do good and having problem with how people is making a huge deal out of him, either for good reasons or bad reasons. It is a clear fucking scene.

Thinking he's a god is a highly new element to his story, and would be incredibly offensive to his creators

Superman is a horse among dogs. A horse is more powerful than the dogs, he isn't a god to them or all powerful just because he's stronger than them. The horse has no damn ideas about being a god just because it's surrounded by weaker things.

Originally superman was designed to be like a golem a Jewish familiar that is stronger than humans. It's not thing to be god its not omnipotent, but it was stronger than humans. It could force two military leaders to sit together and work it out.

Surge of atheism rushed over comics, ideas changed, now it's cool to call yoursrlf a god I'd you're even moderately above human. He's not jesus symbolism either, that's also recent bullshit.

He's moses

They literally humanize him in every single scene that he's in, except for the ones that blatantly show the "extreme cases", the ones that make people think of him as a God (saving people from the fire, saving people from the flood etc) or Devil (the battle of Metropolis, the battle against Doomsday).

I also think people are trolling, since it's extremely clear in the movie.

I know youre joking but I am so tired/high right now that what you say.. i can't argue against it. it's like, i know it's not true but a part of me thinks it is and that part of me is having a mindblowing wut-moment right niw

I love how people overthink these movies more than Snyder does. It is truly a sight to behold.

>Superman (1978)
>Superman II
>Superman Returns
>Man of Steel
>Batman v Superman
>Death and Return of Superman
>All-Star Superman
>Last Son of Krypton
>Injustice
>For Tomorrow

The concept isn't new, son.

>americans think only their jewish god can be considered a god


>Is Batman a god too?


Yes, he is, that's the point of his elevation at the start of the movie.


BvS has 3 clearly different levels:

Clark as a character is just a good guy doing good with his powers, that's the entire point of the movie.

In universe some people project divinity into Superman, his existence affects everything it touches


We, the viewers see him as a SUN GOD and all this story as modern mythology, that's why his obvious feats of power have an ONIRIC "filter"and why Batman when interacting gets affected by that very same "dreamy" look.
BvS isnt a complex movie, but it's not a movie you can understand while watching your phone and posting on facebook. Lots of people get confused when a movie isnt straight forward, from idiots believing the lies Lex says to get confuse when a movie threats a character in different levels.

>jesus
>told his diciples that Judas would betray them, that he would die, that Peter would deny him three times and told them the future multiple times even though they didn't understand.
>not omniscient
>literally says he has all the powers of god bit had to let himself die here to redeem humanity
>satan admits jesus even at his worst could command every angel, but simply doesn't for some reason
>because he kept telling them again and again and again that this all needed to happen exactly

Was this story really so impossible to understand, even with him telling you with each step he knows what would happen and had to let himself die?

He said that if you know him then you know the father, he is god. God that chose to die for the sake of humanity to give them hope again, and show them that a man can live without sin and set an example.

Are you saying that the movie where Batman beats Superman ass and attest to the fact that "Yes, Superman fucking bleeds like the rest of us" is trying to portray him as God?

No I'm not. Jesus uses his ultimate form in Revelation. He has omniscience and omnipotence in human form but chooses to not use it in order to give us a tutorial in how to live life properly. Omnipotence should include the ability to remove power and knowledge for a limited time, don't you think? Still, he knew what would happen to him due to prophecies.

Some people saw him as a god; others did not. If you think there wouldn't be people in real life who would worship a being like Superman then you're being extremely naive.

He didn't know what would happen at every step, he only knew how his life would end. He was afraid multiple times in his life, he felt the temptation of the Devil and had to fight it while afraid because he didn't know if he could resist it, he didn't know the exact outcome of every single event. He was surprised by the merchants selling stuff inside the holy temples etc.

>You've a bunch of angry media people talking about how huge and problematic Superman is while there is also desperate people regarding Superman as their savior or miracle, all of this while Superman is seeing clearly disturbed to be seen in that kind of light due to how much weight it places on him.
Remember when instead of just dying letting people worship him he went and told the world his weakness to lead and kryptonite?

>I love how people overthink these movies more than Snyder does.


I feel bad when a simple movie like BvS is too confusing for plebs. I mean, Luthor ENTIRE jsutification is said during the party, he namedrops prometheus, and yet idiots still believe it was all about his daddy

>Remember when instead of just dying letting people worship him he went and told the world his weakness to lead and kryptonite?

That was dumb and in the comics only a few people knew about the kryptonite thing since that shit can kill him.

The Superman supporters at the courthouse chanted his name the same way. Was that intentional you think? I'm not so sure about that one.

Not even the most autistic analyst even comes close to getting at Snyder's level. He says that there are still things in Man of Steel that people haven't uncovered yet. Though, that may be outdated; I don't remember when he said that.

Superman is the Zionist Messiah.

Well his hatred for power derives from his father's abuse so they're both right in some ways.

>The Superman supporters at the courthouse chanted his name the same way. Was that intentional you think? I'm not so sure about that one.

Probably. The whole point is that the people either thought of him as Jesus Christ 2.0 or as the great Devil that will destroy us all, when in reality he was just some dude trying to do good and feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Lex was the only guy that thought of him as this big loser that had everyone's by their tails and needed to be exposed (also robbed of his shit for good measure).

This argument literally disintegrates with his death scene. This argument no matter how many times it has repeated will never account for the fact that his death scene doubles down on the Christian and Arthurian imagery. If this argument was right, his death would be the one time where Snyder would stop and let the humanity come through, not fucking reference Excalibur yet again.

He literally has an entirely different motivation in every single scene he talks about it. You may as well pick one of them out of a hat, the Prometheus argument is no better then his daddy issues/fedora tipping talk with Clark or his demons conversation with Finch or his DING DING DING moment in the ending.

>inb4 the Prometheus one is the REAL mo-

You have zero proof of this. There is nothing in the text of the narrative nor in the visuals that makes it any more valid then the others, the fanboys just picked this one and decided it was clearly the "true' motivation because it was the least moronic one.

>saying he would return from the dead and 'save us all'.
They weren't wrong.

>characters only have to have one motivation

Wanna know how I know you're dumb?

>Well his hatred for power derives from his father's abuse

Lex doesnt hate power, he in every single version hates anyone with more power than himself. The Stuff he says about his parents are the stuff he tell himself to justify being a terrible person.

God wssnt there to stop the fist of his dad? Well, Superman is there to Stop the fist of his son, and it doesnt change anything, that escene exposes Lex as a guy that is just full of shit.

>There is nothing in the text of the narrative nor in the visuals that makes it any more valid then the others

Except all the Frankenstein parallels.

>He literally has an entirely different motivation in every single scene he talks about it. You may as well pick one of them out of a hat, the Prometheus argument is no better then his daddy issues/fedora tipping talk with Clark or his demons conversation with Finch or his DING DING DING moment in the ending.

Everything he talked with the senator - his daddy being good being nothing but fabrication, Superman being the devil that came from the sky, him wanting to just having measures to protect the world - was a lie, which the senator FUCKING TELLS IN HIS FACE with the granny's peach speech.
The DING DING DING bit at the end was him warning Batman about what he had done when he was desperate and tried to sell the world in exchange for knowledge/power.

>. If this argument was right, his death would be the one time where Snyder would stop and let the humanity come through, not fucking reference Excalibur yet again.

God you are dumb.

He can REPRESENT something to the viewer and be something else IN UNIVERSE.

We see the crosses and arthurian myths, we are monitors of the story.
But IN UNIVERSE he is just a guy trying to do good.

No in universe he's literally the savior from the heavens who sacrificed himself to save man from its own created sin.

Yeah! Gandalf is the Jesus of Middle Earth, both tuned down on their powerlvl!
I kinda get that now, but then again
No, i get it but rationality over this all is creeping, looming over my head

>Lex doesnt hate power, he in every single version hates anyone with more power than himself.

Yeah you're right, that's what I meant to say. "I'm the smartest so I should have the most power because knowledge is power" is what he believes, and the whole "knowledge without power is paradoxical" line shows it.

Speaking of Granny's Peach Tea, I feel like that's something left over from Goyer since he seems to make up idioms in Man of Steel. "It's all downhill after the first kiss" and whatnot.

If a different idiom had been used, such as honey to attract flies and instead he gave a jar of honey to the senator do you think it would have been more acceptable to general audiences? It would still have the same effect I think.

No, he died protecting gotham and in battle.
He was honored as a warrior.

The movie is filled with bad Goyerisms. I'm convinced DO YOU BLEED was from him, that's the kind of bullshit he would write that sounds cool in his head but comes out as absolute nonsense when actually put to the screen.

> would have been more acceptable to general audiences?

It's not just piss jar, it's how comically overdone the entire sequence is. It goes on for far too long.

Superman in MoS and BvS is pretty much Jesus Christ.

He sees himself as a mere man because he grew up as that
He's unsure about his divine role regarding the future of mankind
He has a hard time shouldering the expectations placed is being on him
There are people with power left and right that wary/angry regarding his disruptive presence in society

So he's put into the wringer, made to bled and sacrificed, and in his death with gain faith and have our sins washed away, because he managed to show us the path through his example.

And then in the third day he rose from his grave.

Has there ever been a story of Superman using his unique position as a missionary platform? People thought the Apostle Paul and and his friend were Gods until they started preaching The Word. If you wanted to set people's minds at ease about your hypothetical godhood, preaching of a higher power does it.

The actual idiom is "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining." Though I have heard "don't piss in a glass and tell me it's lemonade" before.

in a world were there aren't any widely known superbeings, its not that hard for people to think of superman as a god-like being, eventhough he doesn't have all those characteristics like omnipotence and omniscience.

Imagine you are in a world where you don't know about superman, the comic-figure just doesn't exist, then suddenly a man from the sky who looks like a greek god, starts saving people left and right and does what would be considered the impossible for a normal human being. Everytime some catastrophe happens, you hear a thunder and then suddenly you are save, eventhough you thought you'd be dead.

It would be even worse if superman started to get closer to people acting all humble and righteous around them, instead of keeping his distance like MoS Clark did, people would think of him even more as a jesus figure. Eitherway superman would be beyond peoples reach, as he does the unbelieveable, no matter how close he tries to get to them.

It would be different if he did look like an alien like J'onn but he looks like a human which brings him closer to a religious figure like Jesus.

I know most think it would just work if superman talked more to people but given his personality, acting all nice and humble, people would think more of him as a Jesus-figure. Those around him would live in constant awe and/or fear depending what superman does and superman himself has to surpress not only his powers but also his emotions around people, in fear he could harm them if he isn't cautious enough.

I don't know why people don't understand what a huge impact supermans existence would have on mankind.

This is something DCEU superman is trying to figure out during BvS, the conclusion was, that what is his role in this world? and where does he belong? are two different questions, while the first one is complicated as his mother said, the second one is easy as Pa Kent said, this is his world, Lois is his world. I thought the word world imples more than necessary, its more like, where does he feel like home, or something like that.

This is kinda true, the best reason Lex Luthor mentions for hating Superman isn't because he is some kind of godlike figure, it's because he is a man that is better than Lex and can do things that other men can't. Who will bother letting Lex make the next step if they can just ask Superman to carry them the rest of the way.

There are times when people confusing Superman with a god are handled amazingly well, but the best conflicts tend to be Superman as a MAN dealing with other things.

Superman fights something because he is protecting those he cares about, Superman refusing to kill because his morality and upbringing tell him murder is wrong, and common ideas like those are what tend to make him great.

Its one of the reasons I kinda like the returned Superman, SuperDad and Lois Mom are really entertaining and awesome.

Do you really not get it by now? That's the exact point the movie was trying to make. They portrayed superman as a conflicted and human character while the world sees him as an omnipotent god, to which luthor has to prove he isn't because his basis on his view of the world is that god doesn't exist due to the problem of evil.

It's funny seeing all these DCEU fans get triggered from this thread.

And I thought they were meant to be the smart ones.

Hahah. You're so cool user. Great observation we got them dcucks real good don't we

and here is your (you) my friend.

>one person believes killing misbehaved children is good
>another person believes it's bad
>HURRR GOD IS THE PROBLEM
It's funny how bad atheists are at philosophy.

I don't think this would work, due to political reasons both in-universe and out here.

Great posts.

>I don't know why people don't understand what a huge impact supermans existence would have on mankind.
Those who dislike these films are unable of abstraction and seeing the perspective of others. It's the same reason they get confused by the Martha scene and Granny's Peach Tea. "I wouldn't so that, so it doesn't make sense to me!" But characters don't ALL have to act how you would. Similarly, they say "I wouldn't treat Superman like a god so why should they?" not keeping in mind that we have outside knowledge and there are others who think differently.

>people got all religious because something stronger than us humans came along

A common dog can kill a human, on the physical scale humans are shit, it's our cleverness and ingenious nature that carried us this far. Batman went at it the right way using the tools and knowledge at his disposal and never fighting head on until he had an advantage.

>people got all religious because something stronger than us humans came along
>A common dog can kill a human

Yeah but a dog can be killed, a dog doesn't have the potential power to conquer the human race or destroy Earth. The comparison doesn't really work.

Superman can be killed, you just had to figure out the way which people did. If superman posed a threat then he would be a problem and problems can be solved.

OOO's is a better Superman story than Man of Steel

THIS.

That's an interesting way to phrase it. Bravo.

>BvS still provide us with materials to shitpost about
The gift that never stops giving