Will it be worse than Ultimatum by the time it's over?

Quill had barely arrived in the latest issue of the main series, but if I remember right, Tony didn't really have to say much to convince Peter to back down. In time he may still come over to Iron Man's side

Isn't that what the CIA does against terrorists anyway?

>Comparing Carol to Hitler.

What the fuck? How many people has Carol killed? Remind me again?

Why even post choosing sides cover? stupid or intentionally asking about this mini?

but that doesn't make it okay

No, you have to try pretty fucking hard to be worse than Ultimatum.

For all the shit we give Civil War II, its greatest sin is being boring. There have been worse Marvel events in the last few years (Fear Itself, Secret Invasion, Battle of the Atom)

are skrulls people?

it's at least better than Standoff

Standoff was a few months back and the whole world already forgot about it

Are Jews?

It would have to try to be awful to be as bad as Ultimatum.

>posting racism outside of Cred Forums

that's a violation of Global Rule 3. You're done, son, you're out of here

Okay, here's a list of Marvel Comics' events from the past ten years, according to Wikipedia[1]:

>Annihilation
>Civil War
>World War Hulk
>Anihillation: Conquest
>Secret Invasion
>War of Kings
>Siege
>Shadowland
>Chaos War
>Fear Itself
>Schism
>Avengers vs. X-Men
>Age of Ultron
>Infinity
>Original Sin
>Death of Wolverine
>AXIS
>Secret Wars
>Civil War II

Again, this is just events; the article also lists crossovers and limited-series.

[1] - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_history_of_Marvel_Comics_crossover_events

it certainly is trying to

Don't lie.

Ultimatum:
>millions of people dead around the globe
>dozens of major characters dead (Daredevil, Wasp, Pym, Professor X, Wolverine, etc)

Civil War II
>Banner and Rhodey died

Bendis has a long way to go if he wants to reach Ultimatum levels of butthurt

Tier list for Marvel Events of the last decade

High tier:
>Annihilation
>Thanos Imperative

Mid Tier:
>Annihilation: Conquest
>Stand off
>Spider-Island
>War of Kings

Mediocre tier:
>Civil War
>Secret Invasion
>World War Hulk
>Fear Itself
>Original Sin
>Siege
>Secret War
>Infinity
>Inhumanity
>Cataclysm

Shit tier:
>Civil War II
>AvX
>Age of Ultron

Ultimatum Tier:
>Ultimatum

I'm forgetting a ton, i'm sure

Yeah, this isn't even Bendis' worst event. Age of Ultron was way worse.

Why did they kill so many people off anyway?

Well, in light of I'll put Death of Wolverine in mediocre tier, and Shadow Land and Schism in shit tier.

I didn't read Chaos War.

>Why did they kill so many people off anyway?

Jeph Loeb is an edgy dickhead who is angry at the entire world, and so he wanted everyone else to feel his pain and suffering. Basically, he was self-inserting as Magneto, and since the real world couldn't feel the wrath of Loeb's fury, he Armageddon'ed the Ultimate universe

Because Loeb was

A. Getting over his son's death.

B. Trying to out Millar Millar

Marvel wanted to kill off the Ultimate Universe well before Cataclysm and Ultimate End, but Loeb and Millar kept wanting it to stick around.

Civil War 2 doesn't have this.

Jesus Christ why did this happen

Read the most recent Ms.Marvel issue. It shows how fucked up Carol is.

See .

It was probably mandated by Marvel to kill off as many people as they could so that nobody would have anything to work with. But Bendis, Loeb, and Millar still wanted to stick with the universe.

Huh, so that's what it taste like

Objective Ranking (counting Ultimate events):
>Annihilation
>Annihilation: Conquest
>War of Kings
>Death of Spider-man
>Secret Wars
>AXIS
>Cataclysm
>World War Hulk
>Infinity
>Siege
>Death of Wolverine
>Chaos War
>Schism
>Civil War
>Avengers vs. X-men
>Secret Invasion
>Shadowland
>Civil War II
>Fear Itself
>Ultimate Civil War
>Original Sin
>Age of Ultron
>
>
>
>Ultimatum

Thanks to the delays, Banner will be back before the event is even over.

Why did you place AXIS so high??

Age of Ultron, an event so forgettable that the movie that only took its name was more memorable.

Could you imagine an event where a character dies in the first book, but the main event book is delayed so much that by the time it ends, the dead character is already making his return in a new ongoing that releases before the main event book ends?

How the hell did this series even manage to fly? Say what you will about the implementation of the original Civil War, but at least the premise had some potential.

This meanwhile feels like some cobbled together shit trying to cash in on a recent movie title.

It doesn't feel like a civil war; original civil war had a decent moral issue with no real right or wrong even though you knew which way it might end up. This Civil War is ten times more senseless with what they're fighting over and how quickly they end up fighting over it, and how pointless it is.

I could probably name a dozen Marvel characters who have been able to see the future before, but for some reason this is super amazing?

Civil War 1 was fucked due to the writing, but CIvil War 2 didn't even have a decent premise from the start.

AXIS is exactly where it belongs. It was good, dumb fun, which is more than can be said for most of the things below it.

>Shadowland

This event wasn't the worst, but I'll call it "most infuriating" because it should have been awesome. A street-level event, involving all of Marvel's street-level New York heroes, dealing with Daredevil taking over The Hand and building a secret prison in the bowels of the city? That should have been the event of the decade. What wasted potential.

And all the fantastic build-up it had going in. Shadowland's biggest sin is being disappointing, but holy shit was it disappointing. Most of the others, you went in not expecting much, but Shadowland, shit, nigga, what a let down.

Secret Wars was also pretty disappointing, but it was still at least pretty good.

>How the hell did this series even manage to fly?
>This meanwhile feels like some cobbled together shit trying to cash in on a recent movie title.
It straight up was. They stated they had to rush it to get it out in time for the movie

Marvel events usually have up to years of planning. This one was a few months.

Ultimatum was at least an original idea and not a jewish sequel to arguably one of Marvel's worst stories to date

IIRC they were even "proud" of putting it together on the fly.

As was saying, the original Civil War was at least a sincere if clunky attempt to discuss post-9/11 politics or incorporate that into the mainstream universe. I can't exactly tell what copying minority report is supposed to accomplish. Civil War II doesn't even feel topical.

Literally the coolest thing about Age of Ultron was the covers.

Fuck, and I like Ultron.

I realized I petered off around AVX, but I didn't really read Fear Itself, Schism, or Shadowland. Chaos War was fun for Incredible Herc fans, but also signaled the end of Pak's run.

>original civil war had a decent moral issue with no real right or wrong
Let's not revise history here. Civil War 1 had legitimate sides, but the only truly correct side was Tony's, which adhered to the law of the country. However, this ignores the fact that Tony became a true fascist, locking up fellow superheroes in a prison on another fucking dimension, and utilizing supervillains to capture them. Civil War 1 was terrible in its own right.

It's a commentary on BLM and racial profiling.

It's not a very good one though, what with all the predictive justice stuff.

The thing is that mutants were already the go-to MacGuffin when it came to profiling, racial issues, or otherwise.

It's all just Marvel killing mutants to make way for Inhumans.

War Machine and the Hulk?

Thanos killed War Machine and Clint killed Hulk

War Machine's death is not on Carol's hands, he came along of his own will without pressure from Carol. Clint acted on his own so Carol is clear of that one too

Loebs son died and he got really depressed and nihilistic. Marvel let him use the ultimate universe to work out his issues. What happened was the meta equivalent of a mass shooting, as a lone writer with mental issues killed dozens of story lines and characters due to his instability. After reading it when I came out I was 100% sure it would end in a retcon since I couldn't believe Marvel would publish it. Read it, it's way worse than you imagine.

Would've been a great excuse to start a new status quo where they X-MEN actually do something about improving Human/Mutant relations instead of infighting and just bitching about inequality without doing anything about it.

But...

Why is Ultimatum so high up?

She deliberately genocided the Brood, and blew up their homeworld. So, yeah. Hitler wishes he did that good a job.

It feels about as capable of discussing the subject as #AugLivesMatter did.

Bullshit, MD had at least some depth. CWII is just shallow bullshit.

Jesus. Aside from DnA's stuff all of that is total garbage.

Citizens are innocent until proven guilty.

The CIA just secretly tests drugs on towns, pretends to be the Klan, shitposts under the name Boco, and watch CNN.

I knew I was forgetting a stinker there, THAT was probably the worst one they've done in years

The movie sucked too.

They were following Carol's lead. They were both on her team. She's responsible for what they do and what happens to them. Carol's at fault here

I would never place it above Infinity.

It was honestly alright if you watched it as a movie about a bunch of guys wearing tacticool spandex against an army of evil robots instead of a movie that tried to take itself seriously.

They shouldn't have marketed it as a darker and more serious movie then. Watch the original trailer and compare it to the film. It could have been amazing but it got ruined by Disney.

As I've seen other people post, when Marvel started the Ultimate line with USM, they wanted a new generation of readers that could jump in for the first time without having to deal with decades of continuity and characters. This worked well for awhile, but by the time Ultimatum came around the line had existed for almost 10 years and it had built tons of stories and characters that made it hard for new readers to jump in.

Ultimatum was meant to lead into a reboot, but Loeb went and did it in the most shitty and edgy way possible. Then the line was left on life support with Spider-Man until Marvel mercy killed it with Secret Wars.

Instead of pruning the branches, Marvel set the entire tree on fire.

Ultimatum was horrible because it completely crippled the Ultimate Universe.

This? This will be as inconsequential as Secret Wars was.

Do you really need to ask?

And yet it somehow still managed to be better than the comic.

Nah. The correct side is Cap, because it's the side that doesn't contradict literal decades of comics showing that letting the governement dip its hands into superhero business is at best a nuisance, at worst genocidal. And was proven again when the next thing after CW was them putting fucking Osborn in charge.

Which, when you think about it, makes it even worse. They try to get political, but the nature of their universe alone makes the whole thing an inapt comparison. It's kinda like the "mutants are minorities, if minorities could randomly nuke cities" clusterfuck.

So, who's even left on Carol's side? After this week's shitfest she lost Alpha Flight, Jess, Ms.Marvel, Thunderbolts.
All she has left is SHIELD and Inhumans, right? And I don't know how the fuck is SHIELD even a legit organisation, after what they pulled at Pleasant Hill.

Yeah, god forbid Marvel actually use characters in stories where they excel

But then that big, nasty fox would get ideas for free!

Hell, Marvel could've still told a more socially relevant story for CWII than this without even factoring in mutants

Have be it revealed that a subsection of Skrulls have been migrating to Earth as refugees as they've been marked for death by the new Skrull God's regime...

Heroes are split as some are still suspicious of Skrulls of any sort after Secret Invasion while others argue that leaving them to their fate will only strength this new regime's power in the galaxy...

The deaths of characters in Ultimatum didn't bother me so much as how goddamn retarded it was. Like Pym being swarmed by Multiple Men suicide bombers (who were trying to destroy the Triskelion) who only blow up when he moves far away from the Triskellion as possible. Or Cyclops forgetting to close his eyes and Magneto somehow able to control Iron Man's armor long enough for them to fry Wolverine. Or Nightcrawler somehow drowning even though he could've teleported.

And it's not a death scene, but Magneto conveniently forgetting that he has magnetism powers long enough for Valkyrie to slice off his arm was also stupid as fuck.

I'd say Civil War II comes pretty close to out-stupiding Ultimatum.

You subhuman baboon. You literal nigger.

How dare you speak, you swarthy jungle monkey. How dare you open your big lipped, rim encrusted, menthol cigarette smelling mouth?

You are human trash, Tyrone Diego LeShawn de Shequelabay. Universally despised, derided and mocked. Your nationality and skin tone offers no hope to the world that North America can ever prosper. Crawl back in to the sub-Saharan jungle you came out of, you literal orangutan.

I hope you decide to sail your neighbour's stolen skip to Liberia and rape some she-boons, as is in the negro's nature. It would still be the whitest pussy you ever had. Give Ubongo and Ubuntu Bantu a chance for some target practice, your sole use to the world. Americans obsession with a few crumbling triangles in the Western Desert built by Middle Easterners is hilarious but sad. Coincidentally its the only worthwhile contribution they have made to the medical field. The WE WUZ [INSERT PROFESSION THE NIGGER IS BIOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE OF] sentiment in the average American is both an early warning sign of larceny in children, and early on set HIV in adults.

Take your black hairy fingers off your keyboard, and never talk about the human species again, you mockery of our supposed shared ancestor.. No amount of olive oil and wheat flour slabbed on your face every morning will make you white. It's about as delusional of an idea as your daydreams of Egyptian heritage.

You nigger.

You make Niger look like a beacon of civilisation.

You are the Lagos of North America.

Go fertilise the grasslands with you and your families corpses, its the best you can hope for in life. For the first time in your life, nigger, you have a job making food for beings vastly superior to yourself. Ankole-Watusi cattle. Coincidentally, it would be the first time an American "man" provided for a family.

Die, Tyrone. No one would miss you. Except for Australian Aboriginals, who now would have no one to make them look good.

Only out of incompetence

No possible ending that makes it worse, huh? How about "It's all Cosmic Cube's fault"? Or even "Carol kills Tony and is still loved by the populace"

>My future predicting Inhuman says you're a criminal so we're going to put you in jail before you'll do anything
>It doesn't matter that we don't really understand how the future predicting powers work or how accurate the information

That sound entirely acceptable. I mean, I'm never going to break the law so this will not affect me and clearly everyone being jailed were bad seeds from day one.

This is no different from letting the NSA tap my phone calls and read my e-mails, they won't do anything with them because I am not a criminal, so the invasion of privacy doesn't matter. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear from such an ambiguous and vague enforcement of law.

Not only is this extremely sad, but what if that guy wasn't black?

What if he was asian?

Guaranteed Netflix Defenders will be an MCU take on Shadowland

>However, this ignores the fact that Tony became a true fascist, locking up fellow superheroes in a prison

They were breaking the law, that isn't fascistic.

>on another fucking dimension
Safer than just Ryker's Island.

>and utilizing supervillains to capture them.
Dubious, but not inherently evil.

It's already worst than Ultimatum. They are bringing in racial profiling as the main reason Tony Stark is against it, AND PEOPLE ON HIS TEAM ARE STILL ANGRY AT HIM FOR BEING RICH AND WHITE! Carol is one step from Civil War I levels of Adolf Stark, she even built her own personal prison in Jersey City where she could imprison the low profile cases without any rights. Tony is refusing to admit that people can know the future when half the people on his team have time traveled multiple times, several of them are FROM THE FUTURE, and some of them are from alternate futures that ceased to exist because they came back to stop them.

At least in Civil War I people could see Tony's side as having reason, even if they were going about it as opposite as humane as possible, but Carol is on the verge of going full retard, to the extent that she forgot Nightcrawler was on HER team when he BAMFed that attorney out of the cell.

The only thing that is even saving this at all is all of the amazing writers that are making tiny retcons and explaining Bendis' huge plot holes and mistakes, but even they are dropping huge bombs like the fact that the Attorney Ulysses swore was Hydra wasn't actually Hydra...

It's better to have some innocent in jail than criminals out

What?

"wrapped to death by his cape"? Is that a typo or something or did that happen?

Not a typo, it actually happened (to Ult Strange, specifically)
Outworldy demons are dicks

>some

What about when it's large number of people? At what superfluous number do you draw the line? And we're talking about crimes that haven't even happened, so criminals aren't even "out" yet, and that presupposes you could not put them in jail afterwards. Maybe we should put everybody in jail since birth, just to be sure that we're truly safe. So there won't be any crimes that we don't miss.

It was his belt actually, but hey, close enough

Neither of those would make it worse than Ultimatum, "it was all just a vision" probably would though.

It's better than I expected, still pretty dumb.

> "it was all just a vision"

Oh good lord, you don't think they... no, they wouldn't, would they? Good lord.

Why does everyone hate Fear Itself?

>>tfw can't even diversify racism

I never even read it actually, except the first fight of Super-Juggernaut vs. Utopia X-Men.

Both Tony and Carol are wrong and right depending on the matter at hand.

As for what Carol does wrong, first she is using a civilian for fate-of-the-world stuff, she´s blindly trusting everything Ulisses says(which has already been confirmed to not be 100% right) and using his visions on things that aren't as relevant as a celestial invading Earth.

Using Ulyses for Thanos-Celestial scenarios is fine to me(which is why Tony is not completely right either), but she does more than that.

With the exception of Tony, the inhumans and Cap Marvel, characters arent consistent with their picked side in this.

The whole concept is shit because precog isn't an uncommon power at all, yet suddenly this super special snowflake inhuman is the only one who has it.

This. That's the same reason why everyone hated the first Civil War so much. Its effects were felt for the next decade and only a complete universal reboot could undo the damage. Ironically, Bendis' writing is so fucking bad that this won't do the same level of damage because everyone wants to forget it ever happened and move on. It's going to be like AXIS where only one or two plot points survive and everything else fades into obscurity.

> it's the side that doesn't contradict literal decades of comics showing that letting the governement dip its hands into superhero business is at best a nuisance
Cap´s side is the one that contradicts literal decades of comics showing that you shouldnt fight the system.

>Wanting to get into Marvel.
>All these crazy ass "Superhero infighting" events make me change my mind.

Is there anything worth reading at all?

That would require Bendis to know something about the current state of cosmic outside of what he's written.

So that was never a possibility.

>Civil War 1 had legitimate sides, but the only truly correct side was Tony's, which adhered to the law of the country.

Wrong. Tony & Jen violated a shit ton of laws...

For instance, the SHRA was a an unconstitutional draft. Also, Due Process seems to not exist in the Marvel Universe...

Time doesn't pass on the Negative Zone like it does on Earth 616. That's one of the reasons Reed Richards is so peculiar. Cruel & unusual punishment much.

Age of Ultron was a miniseries, hardly an "event."

Good ones on that list are:

>Annihilation
>World War Hulk
>Annihilation: Conquest
>Infinity
>AXIS

Only objectively good ones that I think most would agree were well done were the Annihilation stories and WWH. Infinity was basically just a crossover between Hickman books and if you liked what Hickman was doing, you would like it. AXIS was the most fun thing Marvel has done since the Quesada era, even if the meme was that it sucked.

It was the "edgy" universe and Loeb was still a big name at the time. Marvel had basically absorbed a lot of the attitude from the line (which was very successful creatively and financially) into their main universe post-Civil War, and most of the talent that had made it unique and good had moved on, so they let him basically Godzilla the whole thing in the interest of differentiating it.

The problem was that it was horrible: poorly written, fake edgy, and, the one thing the Ultimate U never was, stupid. With Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum, he killed the whole line (except Ultimate Spider-Man, which would limp on for another decade). As someone who loved the Ultimate line, it was really a gut punch.

No. If it's not hero fighting hero, its female hero fighting the patriarchy and bedbugs.

Just read DC and other publishers.

also Mariah Hill was demanding capes to sign up or get arrested before the bill had even been passed

It depends on what tie-ins you read, if any. The main series actually leaned toward Tony a bit (and doesn't fully suck; some of those issues are actually good if you can set aside butthurt about heroes acting shitty). It was tie-ins like Frontline and JMS Spider-Man that made him Hitler.

Again, I'm just going by Wikipedia's definition of events, which are stories that have a limited series and crossover books.

She hasn't locked up anyone who was not already a criminal or on the run for other crimes, she would have released the business woman once they had used up all options and found zero proof that it was going to happen.
On all the other cases they did find proof that the crime was being set in motion.

Hitler killed the Jews because he hated their genetics, not because they were a threat to innocent peoples lives.

I remember reading it once and finding it utterly forgettable. Tony drinks again, that's all I recall.

NO SHE IS FUCKING NOT, her lead was flawless in that scenario, you do no let a being that is literally in love with the living incarnation of death get a cosmic cube EVER.

Bendis continuity

>Is there anything worth reading at all?
Thor - God of Thunder - God Butcher & God Bomb
Black Panther.

Quite a few, actually, particularly because most tie-in barely acknowledge CWII before going back to their business
For example Deadpool talks a little with Ulysses than goes back dealing with his problems, the New Avengers every once in a while say "Oh, right, there's that whole hero-fighting-hero shit going on... Who cares, let's keep fighting WHISPER"

Because they wanted actual consequences you could not have in the main universe.
No Hickman's Ultimates came after & it was the best thing to ever come out of the Ultimate Universe even despite its lesser ending.

You mean monthly ongoings being released now? Sure, of course.

Titles unaffected by Civil War II include good books like:

>Vision
>Black panther
>Doctor Strange
>Deadpool
>Black Widow
>Thor
>Astonishing Ant Man
>Moon Knight
>Old Man Logan
>Uncanny X-Men

Some, which carry the Civil War II banner, are still mostly about their heroes and are still good. Those include:

>Ultimates
>Uncanny Avengers
>Sam Wilson: Captain America
>Totally Awesome HULK

You could also check out the 50+ years of back issues and trades of beloved Marvel stories that would help you get caught up...

You're posting a Cap image, so let me suggest Ed Brubaker's seminal run on Cap from the Aughts, as well as Rick Remender's more recent and weirder run.

If Cap had been there, Rhodey would have attacked from a distance, Shulkie would have flanked Thanos instead being right in front of him & Medusa would have stayed home.

Carol should have brought Thora, Iron Man, & Cap. Instead she brought her c/d list friends & coworkers. As powerful as the Ultimates are purported to be, it's a shame they did fuck all during that fiasco.

Deadpool was a tie-in.

Retcons and poor designs.

is right. He talked with Ulysses for half a chapter, before going to do something that will heavily change the end of the war He broke up with his Mercs for money
This way he can have the superior team with Domino and Teenage Negasonic Warhead

I just looked at the premise and it sounds fucking great. Is it really that disappointing?

Why is schism so high
It was awful and it's prelude was worse