Did Zach Snyder save a bunch of Cred Forumsmrade's lives at some point in time? Because...

>the Snarkycomebackverse (since you are triggered by the word quip)
You've missed the point. It's not the word "quip" that's a problem, it's that there are autists hung up on that factor of cape adaptations at all.

I'm going to give it a chance because of Geoff Johns' involvement. If it wasn't for him, there wouldn't be a chance I'd go near it.

I liked the first 3 dceu movies, might as well go see this one too.

I'm still very undecided on which was worse. I'm tempted to say the prequels, because they are undeniably shit, but Force Awakens was just so fucking shallow. It was nothing but trying to appease fans, and it copypastad everything from A New Hope, and also most of the new characters were shit.

It basically comes down to shit that tried something new, and was still shit, or shit that copied something good and was still shit.

I know your pain.

what the living fuck did they do to flash and why is batman wearing a jean suit painted with flex seal? Rest look legit.

I'll wait for the DVD release so they can do the post credit edits that fix all the problems the movie is likely to have like they did for BvS. anyone who says the dvd version wasnt better is a LIAR !

Man of Steel had it's moments, BvS was just shit all around.

I dunno man, different people like different things.

In complete agreement.

For better or worse, the Snyderverse is at least a radical departure from not only the DC Universe, but static superhero movies in general. I have NO FUCKING IDEA what he has planned and that's so much more exciting than whatever dumbed down version of existing Marvel storylines that the MCU has planned next.

Sorta like this one said ( ), I like it cause I'm a rampant DC fanboy, but also because they've done something different. I like a lot of the Marvel movies, and they're good dumb fun now and again, but they get stale. It's nice to see someone try something with a different tone. We don't expect all fast food joints to be Mcdonalds, so why should all capeflicks be Marvel-esque?
I'm strapped in for the ride and genuinely interested to see what they will and won't put on the big screen if and when the universe gets properly started and Snyder's not the director.

I'm still gonna see it, but then again the local theater lets me in for free because I used to work there and I'm still friends with the manager.

The Force Awakens was derivative in that it echoed A New Hope in a lot of ways, but also directed itself in the way that the original trilogy did, in that all of the characters were drawn together by serendipity and coincidence. So, sure it was like A New Hope, what's wrong with that?

It still used original characters, that were written well and directed well, using filming techniques that won't be out of date in ten years making the movie completely unwatchable like the Prequels are.

On the other hand, from The Phantom Menace to the Revenge of the Sith, there was nothing that I would ever refer to as 'competent' filmmaking in any sense of the word. The direction was awful, the writing was subpar at best, the plotting was abysmal, and none of the characters were even remotely interesting. It was a failure of filmmaking from top to bottom.

The Force Awakens was a really well made, if derivative, movie. The Prequels were some of the worst movies in the past twenty years.

>SW7

what the fuck is that?

Star Wars: The Force Awakens, aka the seventh movie in the series.

Oh, most people would call it SWTFA. Never seen SW7 before.

I don't hate MOS or BvS but I also started reading the Superman comics and if I had to choose between them I'd pick the comics.

> all of the characters were drawn together by serendipity and coincidence. So, sure it was like A New Hope, what's wrong with that?

wow you actualized a problem with the movie that I didn't know I even had. In a New Hope a lot of character meetings are motivated (Leia need's Obi's help, thus leading to the meeting Luke and Obi. They need a way off planet, thus they meet Han and Chewie, etc. etc.) but in SW7 everyone meets via coincidence. Rey just happens to run into Finn, and they just happen to run into Han Solo, who knows where Leia is (And that just happens to be close to them, on some remote battle outpost, and not anywhere near where Senators or Princesses usually are).

Thanks

I am going to watch it, because I am stupidly starved for Superhuman fight scenes.

I just hope we get a good plot, and save Darksaid for movie 2.

...okay?

Still doesn't tell me how the Force Awakens is a bad movie, or how the Prequels are better.

> a radical departure from not only the DC Universe
eh, I wouldn't go that far. It builds on a lot of what comes before it. Sort of like how The Dark Knight, Kingdom Come, and Birthright are departures from what we've seen before, while still having one foot in the the regular DC universe.

which Superman comics?

I'm not going to see JL. The DC films can fuck off until Snyder is gone. I'm really excited about the resultant, inevitable shitstorm following JL's release, though.

>Man of Steel is mediocre at best and Man of Steel is outright bad
lol wut

Anything outside of Frank Miller, who doesn't even write Superman comics in the first place, has a better handling and understanding of the character than either Goyer or Snyder. You could go to a comic store and say, "Hey, shopkeep. Grab me a random Superman comic" and what they give you will have a better understanding of the character than either Snyder or Goyer.

Yet it was still miles better than the prequels which ditched the simple formula for tax discussion

All initials are retarded. Just type out the fucking words, you lazy bums.

Yeah. They're both pretty shitty.

"Miles better" because it copied the original film shot for shot. Literally bottom of the barrel filming.

Once again, how is being derivative worse than being outright shit? Also, digging how you don't know what 'shot for shot' means.

Notice how I used "miles better" in quotations. It'seems still outright shit. It's only mimicking a better film.

>HEY GUYS REMEMBER STAR WARS?: The Movie

How is the Force Awakens a bad movie, aside from plot and character similarities to A New Hope?

And, for reference, this is what shot-for-shot looks like: youtube.com/watch?v=9yOYiVHKOog

this

I'm not saying the prequels are better, I'm just saying I had a problem with the movie that I couldnt put into words, and you said it for me.

Its pretty weak writing though.

Inglourious Basterds features an SS man who, coincidentally, runs into the daughter of a family that he killed in the middle of occupied Paris, which is an enormous city with a large population. A group of Nazi hunters then, coincidentally, bump into a plot that she's hatched that will lead to the death of the Third Reich, which is something that they hadn't planned on.

The Seven Samurai, one of the greatest movies ever made, also relies on irony and coincidence in that one of the most important members of the Seven Samurai is a peasant farmer who hated and spurned his old life and pretended to be a proud warrior, who then gives his life to protect peasant farmers.

You can't say a movie has 'weak' writing for using writing techniques that most of the greats use.

Both movies have things that compensate their flaws, like great acting and iconic cinematography. SW7 is a hollow plot with unimaginative characters, emotionless story, poor dialogue, forced conflict, unfunny comedy and it rides way too much on "hey remember how much you loved the original SW?" nostalgia to pacify viewers without offering anything new or improvements to the table. It's like a remake that just copypasted everything from the old movie without understanding what made it work and expected the result to be equally good.

>The Seven Samurai, one of the greatest movies ever made, also relies on irony and coincidence in that one of the most important members of the Seven Samurai is a peasant farmer who hated and spurned his old life and pretended to be a proud warrior, who then gives his life to protect peasant farmers.
That's not a coincidence, you mong.

>relies on irony and coincidence
>relies on irony
>irony

Particularly salty DC kiddies starving for their own films after Marvel went full cinema who overhyped themselves to the point of delusion and never came back down to earth, maybe?

Or possibly wanting to pretend this was somehow deeper or more mature than Marvel's fare when the final product was exactly what you should expect from Zack Snyder: horribly overfiltered visuals, inconsistent and even incoherent tone, and crammed full of trailer-bait lines that just sound idiotic in their own scenes.

Or just a bunch of shitposters and meme-gargling contrarians, but we all know how rare those are on Cred Forums.

Or any mix of the above, just pick your poison really.

Snyderfags are just a special breed of retarded humanoid.

The thing is that the energy required to refute their bullshit is orders of magnitude bigger than the energy required to spurt them.

If they survived the blunder that was BvS, nothing can stop them. It is sad, but true.

Hi Mr Mouse. Got some good comics for us, some involving characters, some interesting stories?

I'm not going to bother and that is a fact that both amazes and depresses me. I cannot believe there is a live action JL movie coming out and that I don't have any desire whatsoever to see, but here we are. Snyder should stop doing these movies and go back to schlock horror, Dawn of the Dead is still easily his best movie.

I agree with almost everything you said except the part about SW7 being "worse than the prequels" in any aspect whatsoever. That's where you lost me, Coach

What I have a hard time understanding is that Snyder got the job in the first place. His movies aren't received well: rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/zack_snyder/ and aren't huge box office earners. I understand that they're stuck with him until, at least, Justice League, so they can't really switch him out without buying his contract, but why did they hire him in the first place?

Like, if they wanted a visually distinctive director who has a history with comic movies, why not the guy who did Wanted? May not be a great adaptation of the source material, but it's much better than anything that Snyder's done. Not just that, but it's also stylish and has a distinctive, visual style. Or Matthew Vaughn, another guy with a comic book history who has a unique style, while also being a solid action director. Anyone other than the guy whose career highlight is the Dawn of the Dead remake.

>taking poetry meme seriously

> May not be a great adaptation of the source material, but it's much better than anything that Snyder's done

No it isn't. It was fairly mediocre in fact and the action scenes outside of the opening scene were pretty shit. Maybe if you had said someone like Mathew Vaughn I could agree but the Wanted guy? Kek!

Lol, stay salty man. MoS took key elements out of Superman's Golden and Silver Age comics (mostly for Luthor and Superman's involvement with politics), Luthor's look from Birthright, that touching scene from Birthright where Pa Kent tells Clark that he is his son, and the key ideas in ASS for Jor-Els hopes for his son.

BvS was, in fact, a celebration of Superman, and does that by basically reversing The Dark Knight Returns and making Batman the over-reactionary stooge that is a product of his environment/world, and Superman the idealist that refuses to stop believing in the world.

I liked it, you didn't. That's fine, especially because I don't care about you. People can like or dislike different things. I'm not into eating sweets and dessert, but for others it's the highlight of a meal. Different strokes. You don't need to be a giant faggot screaming STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE REEE!

Thanos
Why do people give a shit about this obvious Darksied knock off?

...I did say Matthew Vaughn in the post that you just replied to.

>their 4th deathstar, somehow the Empire still thinks this will work, which is retarded
>has the same weakness, why didnt the Empire fix this
>the rebels winning the war really meant nothing it seems
>despite Vader and The Emperor being the last Sith lords, of course there were super sekkrit Sith just waiting (which is a retarded plot and was literally used for The Force Awakens game)
>Rey is a fucking mary sue who masters the force faster than any protagonist we've had before, just because the plot demands it
>Carrie Fisher limping her way through her dialogue

I could go on

I'm not, and I'm not going to see wondy either. And it infuriates me.

Its still not a coincidence you dummy.

And nothing in The Force Awakens was ironic, it was just coincidence to move the plot along.

and yes, coincidence is weak writing, just because its been used in otherwise good stories doesn't make it a lazy writing device you idiot.

>why do people like what I don't like, the post

>Geoff Johns' involvement
>good

He is a warranty of generic marvel tier shit. He will destroy all the few good things about snyder and only add crap.
See Cyborg in the League.

>>their 4th deathstar, somehow the Empire still thinks this will work, which is retarded

It did work, though. It destroyed Coruscant along with several other planets. How did it not work?

>has the same weakness, why didnt the Empire fix this

What is hubris?

>the rebels winning the war really meant nothing it seems

GALACTIC empire. As in their empire stretches across an entire galaxy. The Rebels victory in the Endor system did mean something, but there was still plenty of infrastructure in place to keep the Empire from completely dissolving.

>despite Vader and The Emperor being the last Sith lords, of course there were super sekkrit Sith just waiting (which is a retarded plot and was literally used for The Force Awakens game)

So?

>Rey is a fucking mary sue who masters the force faster than any protagonist we've had before, just because the plot demands it

Luke fucking destroyed the Death Star in two tries, in a dogfight in space because he used to 'target womp rats with my t-16 back home.' Not to mention that he later went on to defeat one of the most powerful Sith in history despite having very minimal training in the force and no training with sword fighting whatsoever.

I'll give you Carrie Fischer, though. She was not a highlight.

I am not, in any way shape or form, saying that the Force Awakens is anywhere near as good as anything that Shakespeare wrote, but the ending of Romeo and Juliet would not be possible without the use of coincidence as a writing technique. These are movies, these are fictional stories, coincidence is sometimes needed in order to tell the story that needs to be told.

Not to mention that the very concept of Fate is active and actual in the Star Wars universe. "It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the universe together."

>Luke fucking destroyed the Death Star in two tries, in a dogfight in space because he used to 'target womp rats with my t-16 back home.
they still established that he was a good if not great pilot which is more than can be said for Rey who master's flying the Falcon despite never once having anything said or implied that she is a good pilot. And using the force to shoot the photon torpedoes was Lukes one real force using moment in that movie and he had a tiny bit of training and understanding of the force, unlike Rey who just does stuff because she found out the force is real.

>Not to mention that he later went on to defeat one of the most powerful Sith in history despite having very minimal training in the force and no training with sword fighting whatsoever.
he had his training from Yoda and while not really canon anymore he had plenty of extra training and moments to improve his skills with both the force and a lightsaber in between Empire and Jedi, unlike Rey who pulled off a mindtrick in 2 tries and was able to out fight a guy who has years of training in lightsaber combat.

Your opinion is shit but you're entitled to it. MoS and BvS were the same. They each had shimmers of something truly amazing buried beneath Snyder's incongruous and frankly incompetent direction combined with the hamfisted influence of a studio rushing desperately to cash in on the properties that they've spent decades dragging their feet over.

And no, I don't see how it's better than the MCU. If the worst the MCU has to offer is mediocrity, which has been the case so far, I'll take it. It's better than complete incompetence.

>be me in 2009
>See Watchmen, think Snyder did a shit job despite superficially being the most accurate comic adaptation ever
>articles start circulating WB has to make a Superman movie in a year or siegel and schuster's heirs will sue the studio
>rumor that Snyder is the favored guy because he doesn't need to prep, aka he's a studio yes man and the only one of their go to directors that has a pitch that resembles traditional Superman
>its confirmed, then Sucker Punch and Green Lantern comes out
>at this point I have zero faith in Snyder & WB to pull this off
>first trailer drops, its great
>see MoS in theaters with great excitement
>its monotone piece of shit in almost every aspect
>vow to never again pay for Snydershit again
>laugh as BvS is shit on everywhere
>don't even want to see BvS but friend rents the Ultimate edition
>it's somehow even worse than MoS, Watchmen and Sucker Punch
If you have any faith in JL, especially after that cringe as fuck trailer, you are legitimately retarded.

These movies are absolute trash.

>was able to out fight a guy who has years of training in lightsaber combat.

Why do people always have a problem with this one? Do they not remember the scene right before this where Kylo got shot by Chewie's bowcaster? Mother fucker shouldn't even have been standing, let alone fighting off two people. It's not like Rey was flipping around doing sweet saber moves that outclassed him, she was just pissed and had enough prior experience with melee weapons to be able to at least use the saber semi-competently.

I remember that. I also remember that Sith and Dark Side users use fear and pain to fight better and stronger. why do you think he kept hitting his wound?

Luke had SOME experience with piloting, but it wasn't nearly on the level of dogfighting, which he showed to be adept at, even to the level of being better than experienced pilots in the Rebel Alliance. It's not just blowing up the Death Star, it's also everything he did between the briefing on the mission and the impossible shot that he made on the second try without even using a targeting computer, despite the fact that Ben had given him an incredibly small amount of training prior to then.

Yes, Rey was able to pilot the Falcon, but she never did anything even remotely as complex with it as what Luke did with an X-Wing in A New Hope.

I'll give you the mindtrick, but her defeat of Kylo Ren is hardly anything to write home about since he's totally emotionally unstable, and had just murdered his father before being shot twice with Chewbacca's bowcaster with explosive rounds.

Kylo Ren's defeat at the hands of Rey is hardly miraculous and simply speaks to her not being unbalanced and not being grievously wounded before the fight even began.

>If the worst the MCU has to offer is mediocrity

More

Wait, what?

fpbp

>Yes, Rey was able to pilot the Falcon, but she never did anything even remotely as complex with it as what Luke did with an X-Wing in A New Hope.
except that part where she did a loop in order to line up Finn with a perfect shot despite not knowing where the guns where locked at. Not to mention all that flying through the innards of a crashed star destroyer with perfect finesse, making it through tight spots.

Kylo wasn't fully trained or fully dark side yet and regardless of that a bowcaster bolt to the side is tough to just tank through after awhile. The fact that he had to do that at all when fighting even Finn who was just flailing around like a jackass shows he was hurt real fucking bad and was barely fighting through the pain.

yes, it was shit.

Pleb.

wrong.

>if Star Wars fans can accept that the Prequels are shit,

Fuck you m80

ROFTS is my favorite one in the whole series

These.

Being a DC director must be the easiest job in the universe, you could probably film yourself shitting for 2 and a half hours and people would still defend your film as art.

The MCU is eating the DCEU for breakfast critically and commercially. Suicide Squad might be the turning point commercially, we'll see. Until then, DCucks' arguments for the DCEU will be as desperate and half-assed as the studio's attempts to create the DCEU.

>wasting the Death of Superman on the second movie in the universe, vastly decreasing the stakes

>Yet most people in the world praise SW7 which is arguably worse than the prequels in many aspects.
Go back to Cred Forums.

The DCU so far has been terrible.

This comic is also terrible. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

>Luke fucking destroyed the Death Star in two tries,
Not this tired old chestnut. Luke was a good pilot and that's it, he sucked at pretty much everything else until he got some training and didn't pull off Force powers other than light saber fighting until the third movie. Plenty of people hated Luke on sight and only slowly warmed to him.

Meanwhile, Rey was an expert at everything instantly, was liked by everyone instantly, was the only important person in the movie according to the writer, Ren and Leia, and mastered force powers in seconds including breaking the mental defenses of a trained force user in one try - BEFORE Ren was injured or traumatized. Rey was better at mind reading that he was with no training whatsoever.

THAT's a Sue. It's going to take a huge amount of justification to explain why she was a super special snowflake. They are going to have to pull the "She was the child of X and a lost Force trainee" to even begin to explain it.

If offers something different than the bland shit the MCU keeps giving us.

Yeah, mindnumbing trainwrecks.

Being a different type of terrible doesn't make them good.

If Han Solo had been an OC nobody would have cared about his death in SW7. The characters were complete bare-bones.

The first three DCEU films were more successful than the first three MCU films. If they'll keep that up or not i don't know, but this is a fact.

Just because they're financially successful doesn't mean that they're good movies. The Transformers movies make ludicrous money and they're absolute garbage.

The problem is you literally can't refute them, no matter what you say they've got an "explanation" as to how you're wrong and how you only don't like the DCEU because you're a Disney shill, or a Marvel fanboy, or you're not smart or deep enough to understand the masterpiece that Snyder has created.

Man, this argument was and still is completely pathetic.

Yes, three movies coming out at the top of the superhero genre popularity, featuring two of the most well known superheroes in the world, hyped to hell and back by massive marketing campaigns, and still riding high from the success of The Dark Knight Trilogy, were more successful than three movies which had none of those advantages. I fucking wonder why.

>the MCU is shit so by default that makes the DCEU good
fuck off it does.

>Lex Luthor back to being the redheaded wacky scientist he was 60 years ago.
Oh.....you're from the DCEU reddit....

All of you faggots just download the cams by torrent anyways, this whole posturing bullshit about being some fan that cares is garbage, none of the company war idiots on this board actually go to the theater to see this shit so why the overvalued sense of your own opinion?

its like Cred Forumstards bitching endlessly about a game they're not going to buy but maybe eventually will pirate and try out, just to be able to describe why they hated it for no reason in the first place.

yall a bunch of goddamn jackasses.

Once Snyder is out Im not watching anything else from the dceu. And frankly even him might have been corrupted already

The JL trailer looks like a Marvel movie. I hope Im wrong.

>Yes, three movies coming out at the top of the superhero genre popularity, featuring two of the most well known superheroes in the world, hyped to hell and back by massive marketing campaigns, and still riding high from the success of The Dark Knight Trilogy, were more successful than three movies which had none of those advantages.
Based WB and DC timing things right.

So...you'll stop watching once they get a competent director on board? What sense does that make?

I didnt say it is good. I said its at least more creative and a much wilder ride. I prefer to be surprised.

Also I have never been to reddit. I tried to be there once for Steven Seagal AMA but I couldnt understand how the fuck the site works before he left 15 minutes in after so many questions about punani, the yakuza and shitted pants

>its at least more creative
In what possible way is it more creative?

Well, they definitely take more creative liberties with their characters and setting than Marvel does.

'Creative' really ought to be in quotes in this case, though.

Me.

Just the way they handled Krypton in MoS was creative as fuck.

So...twenty minutes out of five hundred and forty minutes counts for the DCEU being more creative than the MCU?

>Yet most people in the world praise SW7 which is arguably worse than the prequels in many aspects.
I stopped reading at the post at this point and I'm not looking back. You might have a good point somewhere in this post but I ain't checking anytime soon.

>Stopped reading the post
Sorry bought the at

John Williams brought his D-game to that movie and none of the fights are worth watching, either. The worst part, though, is that it completely invalidates everything that happened in the OT. The Empire's still around after thirty fucking years; ultimately Han, Luke, Leia, weren't important at all, outside of the fact that they spawned this new group of OCs that are of importance.

Some people want cape films to take themselves seriously. I feel as if those who actually like quips in their cape films actually hate the cape genre. They don't enjoy it without irony. The basic concept is so dumb to them that that they need a character to wink at the camera.

But MARTHA!

The rest of the movie was a lot more creative and daring.

I don't even know why i'm having this discussion. I actually like the MCU movies as well, so i don't know why i'm having this pissing contest. I just don't understand why people seem to hate the DCEU movies so much.

If it had copied it shot for shot it would have had good cinematography

What pissing contest? Saying one movie is bad doesn't make another movie good. And I don't hate the DCEU movies any more than I hate any other bad movie. If anything, I find their lack of quality to be heartbreaking because I've been a DC fan since I read Batman #500 when I was nine. I don't want these movies to be bad, I want them to be great. I want Superman to be inspiring and Batman to be noble, with an unshakeable moral code. I don't want whatever the hell Warner Bros. has done to these characters that I've been a fan of longer than I've been a fan of literally anything else.

>I feel as if those who actually like quips in their cape films actually hate the cape genre.
That's because you have no idea what you're talking about. I've read tons of comics with snarky heroes mocking villains, snarky villains mocking heroes, and team banter. Some times even in a self-deprecating manner.
People who like quips may be more likely to dislike "graphic novels" though. Self-serious superhero stuff that cares more about being respected than being fun. And I feel like that ties closely to the DCEU: It's movies and its fans are more interested in being respected than they are about being fun. And I think it's backfired horribly.

i fear watching it based on everything being said around it, i'm not going to watch a movie by a bunch of people who lost their nerve because "oh my god that movie was just soooo dark"

Batman v Superman is fucking awesome, way better than the tepid Civil War.

Being respected has nothing to do with it. Inserting as many quips as the MCU brings to the table, at climatic scenes, into the like of Saving Private Ryan or Braveheart would piss casuals off and take them out of the experience, because they regard the content with more gravitas and respect than they do that in a superhero film.

Comic fans can read works that take themselves almost dead seriously, like Marvels, or Silver Surfer Requiem, Red Son, Superman: Secret Identify, or Kingdom Come, because they're not so deterred by how "dumb" the concept of superheroes are that they can't just appreciate a good story.

these movies are well made, any problems i had are with some of the dialogue in mos

even the common complaints about mos amount to only a few scenes, with any complaints about the fight scenes being completely meaningless, as they are never actually about quality of filmmaking but "w-why didn't he catch that truck" "the movie is bad because a guy dodged a vehicle"
it's completely absurd to me that now "a character didn't smile enough" is thrown around completely seriously, as if superman has never had a series that had sustained introspection

Ever notice how the DCEU Defense Squad doesn't just make everything into a false dichotomy, they also center most of their attacks on the MCU on their assumed reliance on 'quips?' It's weird.

are you fucking kidding me? the complaints levied at bvs and mos are complete false dichotomies, always

"superman is a depressed asshole" fucking really?

and hey, i'm with you on the mcu and 'quips' only because i think this whole 'dark' and 'light' tone talk is complete bullshit

mos and especially bvs play their premise very straight

It's not even that there are quips, it's that fucking everyone is a wise-ass. Having a comic relief character can spice things up but not when everyone is doing it. That's part of the reason I'm looking forward to Doctor Strange, at least from the trailers so far Strange doesn't seem to be a snarky asshole.

That comes from the tendency towards framing the MCU movies as the ideal to which every other superhero film should aspire towards ("DC needs to add more levity and quips"). The response from the "DCEU Defense Squad" is generally that this is completely retarded and that the DCEU's tone is completely fine.

Stop acting as if the MCU is the be all and end all and people will stop bringing it up.

some people like weird failures more than competent popcorn entertainment

"superman is a depressed asshole" is not a dichotomy in any way, false or not. It's just an assessment of what's on the screen.

What are you even...

Most of the complaints about the DCEU movies have nothing to do with dialogue or tone, most of them have to do with how poor the character writing is, how Zach Snyder doesn't know how to shoot anything other than action, and the wreckless disregard the heroes have towards the people they're ostensibly supposed to be protecting. Or the logical leaps that the audience has to make in order to find some sense or semblance out of the narrative, or how the villains have poorly thought out and realized schemes, etc.

The dour tone could totally work if the writer and the director knew what they were doing. Like, I'm totally confident that Affleck's Batman movies will be great because he's a great screenwriter and director, who's working alongside Geoff Johns. I'm likewise hopeful for Wonder Woman because the director did Monster, which was an excellent movie.

Also, maybe look up what a false dichotomy is.

I wouldn't say BvS was a failure, in the extended cut at least it's clearly exactly what it wants to be.

Not to mention that Marvel's Netflix shows, which are excellent, are also all fairly dark in tone, don't feature snarky characters who have quippy dialogue and feature very strong writing and directing. Not to mention that they're all critical, commercial and fan successes, there's that, too.

except its not
i seriously think anyone who calls cavill's performance of superman so far 'a depressed mopey asshole' have never actually had to spend time with an actual asshole

and fucking hell, every single emotion displayed by him in that movie is appropriate to the context of scene and story

even the fucking praised comic books and not so praised comic books have superman do actual dick moves

this whole conversation is invalid from the beginning but it's presented as a legitimate complaint to have about a movie

I'm not watching it. If I do, I'd just be feeding the disease.

If I get curious, I'll just torrent or wait till a friend gets on on DVD and watch it.

>how Zach Snyder doesn't know how to shoot anything other than action

Uh what? I know people don't like Snyder's style but what part of the movie was incompetently shot?

>Or the logical leaps that the audience has to make in order to find some sense or semblance out of the narrative, or how the villains have poorly thought out and realized schemes, etc.

What logical leaps? It's not a complicated movie, and the villain motivations are spelled out pretty plainly.

Just Googling "levity" along with any DCEU title, will make it obvious that this is rubbish. The existence of the DCEU elevated it into a buzzword.

Do you ever watch real movies?

>Not to mention that they're all critical, commercial and fan successes, there's that, too.
Maybe it's not about the quips then.
Maybe Marvel's just making better products.

>most of them have to do with how poor the character writing is,
not true, every character has clear and defined characterization and acts accordingly to their set desires and personalities
>how Zach Snyder doesn't know how to shoot anything other than action,
blatantly not true either, and you meant 'direct' not shoot
and the wreckless disregard the heroes have towards the people they're ostensibly supposed to be protecting.
the way batman and superman affect the world has been a part of the narrative of both movies so far, to actually critique this, you'd have to look into how the movies present this, not just say "oh hey, this person doesn't do x thing, the movie is bad for it"
>Or the logical leaps that the audience has to make in order to find some sense or semblance out of the narrative, or how the villains have poorly thought out and realized schemes
where? when? everything is clearly explained to the audience

fucking lex luthor's dialogue funnily enough always lets the audience know what the next twenty minutes or so are going to be about
there's nothing unclear about anything anyone does in the movies OTHER than metahuman files scene, and only because the relationship between the logos and their having been active for some time isn't made clear

Which is my point entirely. Marvel's making the superior product.

>I just don't understand why people seem to hate the DCEU movies so much.
Because they're fucking shit as stand alone movies and adaptions of the characters and as a DC fan I demand better.

I can only give you that with Daredevil, Iron Man 1, and the second and third Cap movies (I personally liked the 1st, however, the second half was not well implemented). But with Thor or the rest of the Iron Man movies, or just about anything else, no way. I also think that Marvel built so much good will beginning with Iron Man 1, which was actually good, that it created a level of brand loyalty, from a young audience that grew up on them, that lets them get away with anything, regardless of how dark or outright shoddy it is. Maybe they can start creating stuff that's actually good, since Daredevil ended up doing well, though. I've liked everything the Russos have done.

This is one of the frustrating things about trying to have a discussion on an anonymous message board, but I really do want to know what REAL movies and directors the Snyder defenders like.

What? Marvel has taken way more liberties with their characters.

i just think that now we're just so accustomed to it that it's 'poisoned' the well, alongside people *actually* having and feeding into consolewars

as you hinted, it's sociological

Godfather I and II
Apocalypse Now
The French Connection
Cuckoo's Nest
Chinatown
The Third Man
Double Indemnity
North by Northwest
All the President's Men
Throne of Blood
Dr. Strangelove

Debate me.

it's telling that none of them even try to compare this shit to his other films, except maybe 3deep5u Watchmen.

What liberties has Marvel taken that's bigger than Batman using guns, taking numerous lives and Superman giving zero fucks about the lives, property and livelihoods of the people of Metropolis and Smallville? Because those are far bigger liberties than anything that Marvel has done. Not to mention having Joker and Harley's relationship be based on actual love instead of being a victim/victimizer and stockholme situation and whatever the hell they did with Lex.

>Batman using guns, taking numerous lives and Superman giving zero fucks about the lives, property and livelihoods of the people of Metropolis and Smallville
Nice memes.

So, this really is more of a, "I need some dumb movies that I can turn my brain off for" situation.

Nice dodge from actually defending your position.

>So, this really is more of a, "I need some dumb movies that I can turn my brain off for" situation.
Are you implying that any cape movie is a smart or well made movie? This isn't exclusive to Snyder movies you fucking dunce. Modern day blockbusters are complete jokes of film making.

bvs is a culmination of all his ideas, the self awareness and irony of watchmen with the meta aspects of sucker punch

the difference from watchmen being that whereas watchmen presents the idea of heroes as flawed bvs presents the idea of heroes as viable all while exploring the characters as concepts in our heads, in their specific cultural context and historical context at large

Yeah I do. You didn't explain anything so I'll assume you have no answer.

Sure. Burton's Batman movies, the Richard Donnor cut of Superman II, The Dark Knight and Batman Begins, those are some solid, well made movies. They're not even remotely on the same level as shit like Scorsese, but I'd say they're as good as Leone's Westerns.

batman has always killed in the movies, keaton batman being the only one who's actually joked about it

superman does not give 'zero fucks' in any way what soever
in man of steel he's fighting an unhinged madman, none of the damage done to the city is his fault in the slightest, and even the fucking comic books and dcau show him to be actually literally careless at moments
these things are not 'liberties'

the fucking cocreator of harley fucking said he approved of the harley character in suicide squad

>I've liked everything the Russos have done.

They're pretty bad at action, also they don't seem to have genuine wit. Which Whedon managed for at least one and a half movies.

The only one that comes close is TDK and it's entirely carried by one unforgettable performance. None of those movies are as good as anything Sergio Leone has directed.

Cred Forums shitposting. That's literally it.

This is so dumb. So no one who likes comics could like BvS? If anything you'd think they'd be more open to reinterpretations of Superman than people from Cred Forums who only saw the Donner films. At least comic readers have an appreciation for all the multifarious forms of the Superman mythos.

Cred Forums shitposting are the people like OP who make these threads just to shit on the movie. What purpose does this thread serve? No one defends these movies until some nigger who's never read a comic in their life makes a shitposting thread about it.

multifarious forms of the superman mythos that this superman isn't far from at all

precisely, these threads are bait, pure and simple

It's bad writing. Having your big bad lose the first fight dramatically lowers the stakes. He's basically just been an angsty teen outside of stopping the bolt in the first 5 minutes of the movie.

The fight shouldn't have been in the movie at all, if you ask me. Let some suspense build.

>as good as Leone's Westerns

Yeah exactly. People who keep saying "Superman is only ever this one thing" are so tiresome.

I wonder how bad the shitstorm will be if JL somehow ends up doing worst than BvS's reception. Especially after WB had 3 duds of film going into their cinematic universe.

which to me is even more ironic given the movie questioned the idea of superman at that level, as an absolute but also as something we project back to ourselves

I think what happened with Suicide Squad demonstrates that critical receptions, from professional critics, is beginning to matter less and less.

I love how so many of the REEE! STOP LIKING THE DC MOVIES! REEE! posts always call him "Zach." I'm pretty convinced it's one sole autist with a massive axe to grind who also masturbates furiously during every MCU movie.

For those that don't know, the Justice League wrap party is happening tonight. See you in line at the theaters next year, bros!

>2016
>Being a DC cuck

Cred Forums Pass user since September 2015.

Cool, hope it doesn't end up feeling watered down and shit.

They never did, my man.

Well there's the OTHER Snyder who works for DC, they don't want people to get confused.

>Its also much better than the MCU, which for all the praise it gets it barely has 2 decent movies in 13 tries. And frankly the Snarkycomebackverse (since you are triggered by the word quip) became quite boring and stale.
No.

Its a combination of two things.
One is that Cred Forums had devolved into this weird stupid war between Marvel and DC where you are only allowed to pick one and must hate the other and have to constantly shitpost about it similar to how Cred Forums deals with microsoft sony and nintendo. So people who buy into that defend DC films even if they're bad. The second is simply that some people have shit taste.

Yeah I'd say it's more like 4 decent ones.

Your first mistake is thinking that it's Cred Forumsmrades and not Cred Forums contrarians.

This TFA vs Prequels discussion is like arguing if you'd rather have HIV or second-stage cancer. Both are horrible and no matter which is worse, even more is on the way. For sake of argument though, TFA was incredibly incompetent on both a technical and creative level. It was a copy-cat and is even worse on rewatch. The new characters are almost all incredibly plain and boring regardless of if they're mary stus, it's undeniably same plot as IV, the camerawork is shit, the world-building was just a reconstruction of IV, relies on nostalgia to the point that the only person who could genuinely enjoy it's saccharine is Kevin Smith, and has ridiculous pacing problems. Good effects though which shouldn't be ignored since that's like half of the OT's legacy.
Meanwhile, the prequels came from a place of genuine creative effort. It succeeded in being new without being entirely different but failed at literally everything else. It's muddled with pacing issues throughout, terrible acting, even worse camera work (I'll take boring over unwatchable anyday), fucking horrible dialogue, silly explanations for stupid questions noone asked, hamfisted symbolism, and takes place in a part of history nobody wanted or expected to see. It's effects are so incredibly dated it's laughable. The early-CG excuse doesn't work as the OT's dating has charm and was a genuine pioneer instead of LOOK HOW MANY CG CHARACTERS WE HAVE FOR NO REASON despite the fact that its CG wasn't even top-tier. Lucasfilm didn't have a time machine but even laymen knew they'd date badly. Good but not great and certainly not good enough to fill the shoes of its predecessor.
One is a soulless yet watchable for all the wrong reasons and the other is a completely unwatchable piece of trash but at least it felt genuine. Ironically, since A New Hope already exists and the prequels fall into so bad it's good most people are more likely to watch them.
My bad about grammar errors I'm just really tired.

>Yet most people in the world praise SW7 which is arguably worse than the prequels in many aspects.
>ts also much better than the MCU, which for all the praise it gets it barely has 2 decent movies in 13 tries.
Yeah user, I'm sure it's everyone ELSE who's wrong about how good these movies are. You're the only smart one who really understands.

He means his name is Zack but some people noticeably spell it Zach all the time.

>ad populum

gg

>i seriously think anyone who calls cavill's performance of superman so far 'a depressed mopey asshole' have never actually had to spend time with an actual asshole
I'm doing it right now by clicking reply.

>the self awareness and irony of watchmen
What?
The biggest problem in Watchmen is that it's missing its irony. Snyder treated its cast of losers like it was legitimately cool.

Nah i was mostly just taking the piss. Plenty of people have written reviews explaining why those films are good. The fact that you ignore those and don't put anything beyond 'they're shit' in your post are an indication that you don't really want to hear those so you're just gonna ignore anything i bring up

>Cred Forums Pass user since September 2015.

Dude what do you think those goofy music cues and Nixon's fucked up face were about? He's taking the piss for at least some of it.

It's a valid idea to take the DC universe in a new direction, but for big blockbuster movies (of which you generally only get like one or two of a year) its better to stick to formula. Leave the experimentation pet projects for their own comic runs

Momoa's apparently skipping it because he made a promise with his trainer to keep up with his fitness until full production (reshoots, etc.) end.

instagram.com/p/BLBrmo6h1-8/?taken-by=prideofgypsies&hl=en
instagram.com/p/BLCprwWhlQh/

>All the movies I've made, I've made with a slight bit of irony. Not even a slight bit. A fair amount. But the ironic part of [ 'Man of Steel'] is that it's not ironic. You know what I mean? No tongue in cheek, no winking at the camera

IM1, the Avengers, TWS, and CA3 were all some of the best superhero movies.

Ant-Man was good, if not great.

CA1, TIH were decent or good.

The rest are so-so at best. But it's a much better track record than the DCEU. At the same point in the MCU's lifespan, at least they had like 2 good movies.

I think Snyder is just that guy that takes shit that should be campy and goes "no it's actually deep and serious."

Which is why when he's completely unrestrained we get dumb shit like Sucker Punch that insists its something other than the most shallow possible fanservice.

Yet, they're all forgettable.

This. I'm not sure why people want experimental takes on these characters when this is the first time ever that we're getting a cinematic universe of these characters. And on top of that, most of these characters have yet to be translated onto the big screen yet. WHY would you want them to experiment when we haven't even gotten a proper live-action version of so and so yet?

I'm not completely against experimentation, but more so when it comes to individual film structure or atmosphere. When are we going to get a superhero movie with a non-linear structure like Pulp Fiction? Just as an example. You can do something like that but still keep the characters and setting true to the comics.

To you, maybe.

Who the fuck ever talks about Marvel movies except for the month they're in theaters?

Snyder's films are much like this audience; that is to say that they're so full of pretension as to pretend like they're deep and intellectual, when really, they're actually really dumb.

>in your post
wrong
I'm sure you'd love to be able to do anything but face that user's truth by lumping everyone who shares his opinions together though.

Sucker Punch fucking rules. Snyder's most personal film.

it isn't fanservice? it straight up mocked the viewer who came with certain expectations and then spends time examining fantasies and how inescapable they are

btw i'm not really into the movie, i don't think that was the best content to use as a vehicle for those kinds of ideas,.... which might mean that it actually is lol

Haha, this is my favorite meme on Cred Forums that no one talks about Marvel movies except that's exactly what we're doing in this thread.

You know, it's funny.

EVERYONE does. For fucks' sakes, this "No one ever talks about Marvel movies hurr," is a unique Cred Forums delusion, bred from the fact that this site is naturally contrarian, and that this whole site is a sinkhole of negativity, so that we naturally tend to discuss things that we hate maybe even more so than things we actually like. Notice how people talk about Snyder's movies...to talk about how much they hate them. Notice how whenever someone makes a trainwreck anywhere, be it in a comic book, a movie, or whatever, people can't stop making a billion threads about it. Notice how people STILL talk about that shit long after the fact. How many threads are made just to talk about how much we actually LIKE something? How many of those aren't just waifu threads or circlejerks?

I rest my case.

Get off this fucking site. Go interact with people IRL. People watch and talk about Marvel movies all the time. This whole meme that they really don't is just fucking bullshit. It IS probably the most influential thing in cinema today.

We aren't talking about them though, we're talking about DC movies.

>What motivates so many people here to insist that no, everyone else is wrong, and Man of Steel and Batman vs. Superman are actually good movies?

Literally just contrarianism. Consider that oneof the most common insults on Cred Forums is that you use Reddit... literally just a more popular version of Cred Forums.

>Get off this fucking site. Go interact with people IRL. People watch and talk about Marvel movies all the time.
Nigger I work at an ad agency 40+ hours a week with a bunch of fake nerds that these shitty movies attract, dozens of people I work with set up groups to go see these movies when they come out. Aside from the opening weekend of a movie, no one ever fucking talks about them. Ever. They just wait for the next one, then it's immediately forgotten. Modern day blockbusters are an absolute joke, they'll never stand the test of time.

The prequels are shit but TFA is worse than shit.

>fake nerds
Underage b&

>Want to talk about DC's latest films
>Only way to defend the films is to compare them to marvel, whine that marvel somehow made people hate DC films, say they're better than marvel films, claim marvelcucks and how marvel had a few average films means all the films are bad.

>not talking about them constantly means that they're easily forgotten
Christ, you're stupid.

in my experience media in general just functions as inoffensive social currency

People discuss The Dark Knight still more than anything that's come out since.

This. The DC movies are indeed a mess, but the Marvel movies are anodyne mass-entertainment - instantly disposable junk.

>Yet most people in the world praise SW7
You know nothing of what you speak Cred Forums was ready to burn it at the stake back in December
This is Cred Forums pasta isn't?

Haha nice one m8, here's a (you) for trying.

>this fucking response

Looks like I won this internet argument. You would've been better off just not responding.

I didn't like MoS or BvS but I will gladly watch JL over Rogue One and SW8.

I want to see Doctor Strange but I'm not watching it in the theater because of the Rogue One trailer.

Fuck TFA and Disney Wars, that's all.

Also this too. Most people watch most movies and forget about them easily. But among people who actually talk and discuss what they consume, more people talk about Marvel's movies than DC's, easily.

That's because TDK was a god-tier superhero movie.

But let's not pretend like people weren't talking about The Avengers, TWS, or even AoU for awhile after their release. GotG and Ant-Man too. And it's not like people are going to just stop talking about CW as well.

>I want to see Doctor Strange but I'm not watching it in the theater because of the Rogue One trailer.

You won't watch it in theatres to avoid seeing a trailer? What?

Yes.

Or else give the screen the finger with both hands as it is playing.

>But let's not pretend like people weren't talking about The Avengers, TWS, or even AoU for awhile after their release. GotG and Ant-Man too. And it's not like people are going to just stop talking about CW as well.
They aren't and weren't, what the fuck. I haven't heard someone in real life mention Civil War since opening weekend, and I actually socialize with normal people. Not even when the blu-ray came out. People got over it immediately, like all Marvel movies. The only one with any lasting power is GotG and that's mostly just memes.

>That's because TDK was a god-tier superhero movie.

It's actually not very good. It's just a bunch of noncommittal stabs at relevance, cringeworthy pop-philosophising, bloodless violence, tin eared performances, and boring fight scenes. All set in a completely bland and inert mise-en-scène of "Urban Realism". Batman Returns is a million times better.

...

>They aren't and weren't, what the fuck. I haven't heard someone in real life mention Civil War since opening weekend,
You live in bizarro world. This shit is why no one actually considers anecdotal evidence.

>People got over it immediately, like all Marvel movies
Then why do people continuously get hyped over them? Why do movies like GotG or Ant-Man continue to exceed box office expectations? Why do they generally perform better than DC's movies?

>Batman Returns is a million times better.
No.

Cred Forums will talk about good things sometimes, but will never shut the fuck up about the bad stuff. Case in point, why there are daily DCEU threads on here (and because Cred Forums wont leave). Your not going to change anyones mind, we've been talking in circles for years, and it isnt going to change. Personally I fucking hate the DCEU. Some minor good ideas here and there, but as a whole its shit.

How did Cavill age so badly in just three years?

People haven't gotten over 9-11 yet either. So I guess that means it was a good thing?

Only one good thing came out of this shit

youtube.com/watch?v=gYKeQczkFfM

>Why do they generally perform better than DC's movies?
They don't. The last 3 DC movies have made more than just about every MCU movie that wasn't an Avenger's movie.

DC is Capekino
Marvel is Capefilm
/thread

No one in The Dark Knight has genitals. That's why Batman Returns is the far better and more perverted movie.

Nice false analogy, dipshit. I hope you didn't pay for that education.

>They don't. The last 3 DC movies have made more than just about every MCU movie that wasn't an Avenger's movie.
And neither MoS nor BvS did as well as WB was hoping or expecting either.

Meanwhile, GotG and Ant-Man were relatively cheap and performed much better in theaters than people were expecting.

>and then spends time examining fantasies and how inescapable they are
Case in point.

Snyder just uses that same school of thought as Aaron Diaz where you go "It's my fetish but if I say it's art often enough people will believe there's meaning to it."

Can we stop with the revenue always equally good? I mean on some level it is valid, yet even a bad movie can turn a profit. Avatar made a fuckton of money and all it ever did was look pretty and rip off Pocahontas.

You can't just make shit up to support your argument. That's not how debating works.

First of all it'd be a false DICHOTOMY not a false analogy.
Second, that is literally the argument, so it's not false; "People talk about something long past the time it happened, so that means its good" is a thought process that ignores the fact that bad things inherently last longer in the zeitgesit's consciousness than good things.

It's ironic that Snyder is basing an entire franchise off the idea that humanity is bound and bred to accentuate the negative but if anyone is negative to the movies then suddenly they're too ignorant.

We're talking about movies you dildo. People still talk about classic films all the time and not in a negative way, so your analogy is fucking aids.

Explain where I made up anything.

>People still talk about classic films all the time and not in a negative way
So Plan 9 from Outer Space is a classic film, renowned for its stellar quality?

NOLANBAT [hand clap emoji] HAS [hand clap emoji] A [hand clap emoji] CLOACA

People still talk about shit films like Plan 9 and Manos. Ed wood even got a biographical film

>And neither MoS nor BvS did as well as WB was hoping or expecting either.

You're just assuming shit based on Cred Forums's understanding of film making wherein you need to make 5 times your budget for it to be considered a success. There are tons of variables. For instance; BvS made $31 million in Blu-ray sales its opening weekend.

...

>BvS made $31 million in Blu-ray sales

But who knows how much of that the studio gets.

No, but films that were reviled upon release like Blade Runner, The Shining and 2001 are. Just because people were shitting on BvS now doesn't mean it'll never be well regarded. You've just got a vendetta against it because reasons.

I still see people here talk about The Room. So that's more misunderstood brilliance I guess.

With all due respect, WB themselves have said they need to readjust. Why would they be doing that if they didn't recognize a problem on some level, be it in terms of reception or fiscal?

And more importantly why would they care about critical or audience reception if they had the sales anyway? The fact that they bother even paying lip service to the former implies at least some level of disappointment with the latter.

You sure the fuck don't, so who are you to claim what the studio thinks is a success or not?

Where's Green Lantern?!

It doesn't matter if it's Hal, Kyle, John or Guy but JL needs a Green Lantern!

Because PR is important to any business. They've still got Snyder employed, he's still executing his 'vision', he's still going to fill the movie with religious symbolism. Nothing is really changing.

>Just because people were shitting on BvS now doesn't mean it'll never be well regarded.
There's another side to that coin.
Especially given the fact that it's not like BvS is going to be the last time WB ever tries doing this.

I don't think it'll be hated forever. I think ultimately we'll get a reboot and this will be a footnote just like Green Lantern and Superman Returns ended up being. You're being too short sighted, thinking "three years after the fact and we're still talking about it!". Try more like a decade. Two. That's what movies like Blade Runner took.

Not to mention those movies were far more niche, standalone cult classics. They weren't intended to be major franchise blockbusters, so that's a false *dichotomy* right there. And there's no point in pretending otherwise and acting like the DCEU is a collection of misunderstood masterpieces because reasons.

>I still see people here talk about The Room. So that's more misunderstood brilliance I guess.
Boy, if there's one thing I can guarantee to get out of Cred Forums it's semantics and pedantry.

>BvS will be regarded as some classic decades from now
>Not looked back on as DC's attempt to skip multiple steps and rush into the cinematic universe following marvel's success with it

>Make a poor argument
>Blame semantics when it falls apart.

>I think ultimately we'll get a reboot and this will be a footnote just like Green Lantern and Superman Returns
No! Green Lantern and Superman Returns were just there own movies that didn't get sequels. This is a cinematic universe, these characters and settings will be used multiple times for future movies. It's not the same at all.

Star Wars can't accept that TFA was shit because they would lose the zeitgeist

Same thing with Snyder fans

That's the last thing people talk about when discussing BvS.

Bro I'm an Arrow fan on Cred Forums. I know how you feel. I liked MoS too. BvS had an awesome third act but the first few hours were a waste of time imo.
This. TFA was great. Yeah it was inspired by A New Hope but it was still its own separate movie. I don't get why people get mad at TFA for doing something that many movie/games franchises do a lot of times.

>This is a cinematic universe, these characters and settings will be used multiple times for future movies
Yes. I think eventually they'll reboot this universe.

The defense force are getting creative with this shit. Sure, they're hated now... but in the future everyone will see them for the brilliant gems that they are! Just wait for it. Five years later I wonder what the next excuse will be.

>I don't get why people get mad at TFA for doing something that many movie/games franchises do a lot of times.

Copy previous movies/games to get nostalgia reviews instead of doing something new and original?

>that were written well and directed wel
>I BYPASSED THE CHARACTER PROGRESSION

SW7 fans literally never watched a film without CGI shit in it, you're basically children from the ballpit trying to pass off as suit-wearing adults.

>That's the last thing people talk about when discussing BvS.
Is it though?
I see "It's too early to kill Superman" or "Everyone's already old and jaded already." a lot. Those are the multiple steps getting skpped; there's lots of "the hero's fall" but the rise and prime? Off camera. Implied. And if you like that it's fine but me, I have no interest in Wonder Woman now because it's a foregone conclusion. That movie has to have yet another downer ending to justify Diana going into hiding for a century.
And then if you bring that up you get a bunch of idiots going "SO YOU NEED A PERRY WHITE MOVIE? A JIMMY OLSEN MOVIE BECAUSE MARVEL DID IT?"

Not to mention we know, for a fact, that Man of Steel was rushed through on a deadline as a result of them coming close to losing the film rights.

>le everyone thinks the prequels are shit meme
I hope you know you people are slowly dying.
Soon we will have peace.

Cinematic Universes were a mistake. That's what fucking TV is for. I go to the movies to see a self contained story, not a fucking commercial for the next pile of CGI shit that's going to come out in 2 years. Fuck Kevin Feige.

Cinematic universe doesn't mean one thing. They don't all have to start with origin stories building into a team up to fight some big bad. You really want every movie studio to have the exact same formula just because Marvel got successful with their direction? That's fucking lame. I'm glad DC did something different even if it pissed off a bunch of spazz's.

>I think eventually they'll reboot this universe.
Well, sure. In over a decade. They have multiple movies already lined up. These characters will be engrained into the publics brain for years, it wont at all be like Green Lantern that's easily forgotten about.

Marvel cinematic universe will also be rebooted given enough time. Doesn't mean that it wasn't super important for establishing multiple franchises.

I can't believe what you're saying. "eh, just wait for the reboot... it's not like this matters." Come on, man.

That's an unnecessarily elaborate way to go NO U at someone.

Any movie in any franchise is not new and original. Saying that newness and originality are necessities in a DCEU thread is hypocritical.

>We did The Dark Knight Returns! We're focusing on Batman again!
is not new. It's not original. It's certainly not a risk. It's business as usual at WB and you guys are dumb for rewarding that level of slumming it.

>That's an unnecessarily elaborate way to go NO U at someone.

You read it as "no u" because you literally lack the reading comprehension to get anything else.
Like I said, you have the brain of a child, you don't get and aren't interested in anything that isn't stupid and flashy, so don't pretend otherwise.

I'd rather have gold with specks of shit than shit with specks of gold.

Snyder is the latter, my friend.

>They have multiple movies already lined up.
That number of movies is already getting smaller. Remember, Cyborg was supposed to get a solo.

And that's the thing. This DOESN'T matter. You guys aer insisting I'm butthurt about how the DCEU ruined these characters but honestly I got over it a week in when I realized that three feet away I have Batman: Mask of the Phantasm and the DCAU World's Finest and Return of the Joker. I already got my satisfaction, so I can wait this out. I don't need to subject myself to Snyder in light of that.I can absolutely wait this insanity out until WB decides to make something more my speed again.

No I mean getting things that made the franchise popular in the first place and adding new things into it. No normal person is going to complain about PK Fire Red saying that it could of been something new and completely different. Maybe Its just that I don't understand why you guys hate the move so much. Is it Cred Forums or is this genuine.

>doing old, jaded Batman
>killing Superman in movie #2
>not a risk

u wot m9

If they wanted to go the safe route they would've cast someone young as Batman and done a World's Finest movie.

>hating the based prequels
Hivemind faggot detected. Go jerkoff to your Plinket reviews some more. The only reason you fags hate Man of Steel is because of Half in the Bag.

So are you defending the DCEU? Because stupid and flashy is a pretty good way to sum that up.

>That number of movies is already getting smaller. Remember, Cyborg was supposed to get a solo.
The number of movies has gotten larger, if anything. Cyborg was just replaced with something else. Harley is getting her own movie now and MoS 2 is in production.

Uh...yeah.
Basing your movie on TDKR and DOS, two of the most casual friendly stories in Batman and Superman's respective lexicons, isn't a risk. It's stupid, but it's not a risk.

The fact that it's got Batman in it at all rather than being Man of Steel 2 is not only not a risk, it's damage control.

What? Most of the criticism behind the movie comes from the fact that there wasn't an action scene until nearly 2 hours into the movie and that it was boring. It didn't get stupid and flashy until the Doomsday shit which was clearly added in for the sake of having a CGI shitfest somewhere in the movie.

Says the guys that worship Armond White

No, I don't care about capeshit, even though I like superheroes. Most of those movies are made for people who don't read or like the comics.
But defining as "well written" a character straight out of a teen's fanfiction is a clear sign you have no experience with anything more competently made.

>TDKR
>casual friendly

No it isn't. Killing Joke is casual friendly, most casuals can't get through TDKR because it's long, wordy and political.

>But defining as "well written" a character straight out of a teen's fanfiction is a clear sign you have no experience with anything more competently made.
Which one is the teen's fanfiction again? Because Snyder has the tastes of an eight grader.

You know Snyder went to film school right? For some reason people act like WB picked him up off the street. So I'd assume he has a deeper knowledge of film than an 8th grader.

Snyder didn't write the movie.

He wrote the story, not the screenplay.

You keep replying as if I gave a toss about Snyder's shit, even after I explcitly said otherwise.
I don't know what's wrong with you but it must not be pretty.

He didn't write the story either. Goyer did.

Good movies with good messages. I feel a kinship with Snyder because he gets it and I can understand the decisions he makes and his thought process.

Nah, there's no point in continuing this discussion when you're turning a blind eye to the fact that people in this very thread are discussing Marvel movies.

Yeah, because they are only worth bringing up when someone else suggest anything is better. Marvel movies on their own are boring.

>with good messages
Kill people without regard? Maybe you should let kids die?

>Kill people without regard? Maybe you should let kids die?

You'd have to be pretty thick to think that's the message of those films.

>He went to film school
So? Axes skulls and slow motion are chuuni tier. Going to film school doesn't make you Kubrick any more than going to art school makes you Da Vinci.

I was actually asking. I can't tell which sides are which anymore because of how far they've devolved into shouting memes at each other.

Honestly, I've talked about it quite a bit with friends. As for the DCU, nobody I know has actually seen MoS or BvS, nor have they the desire to. There's nothing there to draw them to it, and it's generally agreed that the whole exercise seems like a sad attempt to capitalize on the MCU.

>Guys, Marvel's gone and made the Avengers
>They're making bank, people
>If we don't work fast we won't make any money on this
>Don't worry about quality either, DC fans will bray on about it regardless

yeah but there are levels to it right. In Romeo and Juliet its fate/coincidence interceding at the worst possible time. In Star Wars it just happens when the writer couldnt think of anything else.

>it's generally agreed that the whole exercise seems like a sad attempt to capitalize on the MCU.
I dislike the DCEU, but I don't understand how anyone might not see why DC/WB would try to capitalize on Marvel's success with their own equivalent. It entirely makes sense.

Thanks for sharing this quote, its great.

>movies need to be compared to other movies to be great
>implying tons of people havent compared it to 2001 and Empire in regards to its initial reception and actual level of quality

jeeze, I havent seen a more wrong post in forever.

fuck you, I loved BvS and liked MoS and some of my favorite movies are:

The Red Riding Trilogy

Once Upon A Time In The West

The Wild Bunch

12 Angry Men

2001: A Space Odyssey

The Warriors
Akira
Casablanca
Now fuck off with your elitism

>how can anyone like a movie I don't like!!!!!

>say something completely wrong
>WHY DIDNT YOU DISPUTE MY WRONG STATEMENT!!!!!

All my IRL friends loved BvS and dont really watch the marvel movies. Stop with your assumptions you asswipe.

you know there are no specifically bad techniques in film, the fact that you think a technique can be inherently bad shows how much of a pleb you are.

>Yet most people in the world praise SW7 which is arguably worse than the prequels in many aspects.
I hated force awakens, but no, no it wasn't...

>>Not looked back on as DC's attempt to skip multiple steps and rush into the cinematic universe following marvel's success with it

This implies that there's only one "correct" way to build a franchise. Which like BvS or hate it, that's just simply not true.

I really don't think the only way to make a franchise is to give every character their own film before placing them in a single movie together, and then repeat the process for the next few years with the sequels.

You don't have to like the DCU's execution, but it's not the "wrong" way of building a universe.

Godzilla vs Hedorah
12 angry men
Zulu
For a few dollars more
Jurassic Park
Flesh+Blood
Gamera 3
Rushomon
Black hawk down
The duelist
Waterloo
Battle of Britain
Excalibur
master and commander
In the name of the Father

To which one could reply people only bring up DC movies to shitpost, make and laugh at memes or talk about the wasted potential many of these films have been.

>This implies that there's only one "correct" way to build a franchise

>First real attempt at building team movies through single films leading to others and finally big ensemble films
>Paid off in spades, 4 movies have made a billion dollars and keep the general public coming back for more
>Positive reception and even their worst is just a "it was ok"

>DC tries to copy it only after they see it makes a shitload of money
>Take steps 1-10 and try to cut it down to jump from Iron man 1 to the Avengers
>Films are received poorly
>A film with fucking BATMAN and SUPERMAN, fighting and being together for the first time on the big screen was met with negative reviews and Civil War comes out with a billion dollar box office

>"N-no guys DC didn't mess up making a cinematic universe! Sure, it makes less money and critics hate it but at least it's not like marvels with their billions of dollars and wildly successful batch of films!"

Every DCEU movie felt like a chore to sit through.

Yeah, it's hard when ypou can't turn you brain off

>Excalibur
shit

This. I don't get it either, man. WB could objectively be doing a better job. No matter how you slice it, they're failing in some way, be it critically, commercially, among audiences and hardcore fans.

Yeah, some people like them. But they're not getting the near universal praise Marvel is.

shhhh we dont need to talk about BVS anymore cause SKAWD was a success. Thats all DC defenders want to focus on now. SKAWD is the future of DC and will be how the rest of DC movies will be made.

How can one person have such garbage taste? Is he the chosen one?

> comparing the trajectory of Blade Runner, 2001 and The Shining with fucking BvS

This level of delusion is beyond my comprehension. BvS is never going to be revisited and it's never going to be a good movie, no matter how much time passes.

I've got no problem with people liking the movie, but come the fuck on. It's just super mediocre cape trash!

you say it as if people have better things to do. even before super hero movies everyone went to the cinema to watch yet another romantic comedy and action movie.

This was hilariously on point.

Only underage shitfucks see any value in prequels.

how the fuck do you pass this off as a legitimate point

how the fuck do you say "dc tries to copy" then say it 'fucked up steps" when there are no steps

dc has been trying to make a justice league movie for more than a decade, and if miller had made his no one would have said muhhhh skipped steps

and there is so much social nuance that goes into the relation between the public and these movies

fuck, even the point on money is inaccurate as the first three dc movies made more than the first three mcu movies

Heat
Rear Window
Roman Holiday
The Treasure of Sierra Madre
Hana-bi
Papillon
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring
Castle of Cagliostro
Dirty Pretty Things
Frankenstein
Wait Until Dark
Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
Arsenic and Old Lace
Robocop
Clue
Gran Torino
Dolls
The Kids Return
The English Patient
High Sierra

>how the fuck do you pass this off as a legitimate point

4billion dollars with much more and universal praise>just barely over 2 billion with terrible scores among critics and turned off general audiences

I don't know how much easier I can make it for you

this

Well I haven't seen MoS, BvS, or SS so I don't see this breaking the streak.

2 billion with three movies compared to 4 billion and a bunch more? come the fuck on dude

and you cannot say general audiences are turned off when they went out to see suicide squad DESPITE of the negative talk around it

IF the point is about the launch of a product in relation to the public, sure, but the post was nowhere near being that, it was saying that you need to have x amount of movies made a certain way in relation to each other in time to get a team up movie, which is not true at all

>come the fuck on dude
4>2

Did you fail math class or something?

Drink a glass of water, eat an apple and go for a walk. You need it.

compare that to release timeframe and number of releases

Ok, I can use just single film releases

>Akira
You ruined it.

Only underage shitfucks see any value in TFA.

it's all just the early denial of casual plebs

fuck the Cred Forums shitposters

>and you cannot say general audiences are turned off when they went out to see suicide squad DESPITE of the negative talk around it
That's because WB spent the past six month hyping Suicide Squad to hell and back, and spent the months after BvS hyping it even further as DC movie done right.

Seriously, whoever is in charge of Warner's marketing department, I hope they're being paid enough to buy a house on the Moon. They fucking deserve it.

>Thanos and darkseid
>Similar in any way
Casual detected.

>they handled Krypton in MoS was creative as fuck.
It was every sci fi cliche trown into one
>Avatar like world and creatures
>Architecture trying to be like geiger
>cliche empire costumes
it was the most generic version of krypton brought on screen

the only DC movie im watching in the future is Shazam, only because based rock and not being tied to the DCEU so Snyder cant get his hands on it

If Snyder did get his hands on Shazam. How do you think he'd portray Billy?

>avatar like creatures

You mean dragons. It had knights in powered armor and dragons. That setting was cool as fuck.

I never said anything about his techniques. Snyder's technical ability isn't the problem. Snyder can frame a shot. He can shoot action. His color sense is a little elementary but it's mostly okay.

But let me put it this way. Snyder's like the guys on Deviantart that draw the weird porn. No matter how TECHNICALLY proficient he is, he's never going to get past that niche and its always going to be seen as a kind of waste of talent. Because what he uses his abilities to do is try hard shit like "let's dress the hero in all black and bury him in a sea of skulls". That's his fetish.
Now if you like that, fine, but it is what it is.

Be honest. Did you watch Excalibur before or after BvS.

>"let's dress the hero in all black and bury him in a sea of skulls"

That happens in a literal nightmare sequence.

I still haven't watched BvS or SS,

I agree that most people in the world don't think it's shit.

>axe

>Star Wars fans can accept that the Prequels are shit

The prequels aren't shit

And? It's still childish and simplistic.
If an eight year old draws dinosaurs made of guns we don't call it deep and profound, so why is that behavior suddenly high art when Snyder does it?

“I don’t know why, I just like skulls.”
-Zack Snyder, 2016
bloomberg.com/features/2016-zack-snyder-profile/

>deep and profound

Who said it was deep and profound? It's a nightmare, skulls are scary. I don't see how it was inappropriate.

I'm gonna watch it because I've wanted a live action Justice League movie since I was a kid, but I don't hold out much hope that it's going to be good because of MoS and BvS.

The only character I'm actually looking forward to seeing at this point is Aquaman.

Superman is well cast but badly written, Batfleck's an edgy cunt, Wonder Woman is bland, I never cared much for Cyclops as a character anyway, and did they have to pick the biggest faggot in the world to play Flash?

You sound like every faggot on Metacritic when someone doesn't like a movie that you do.

Why do all haters resort to strawman arguments?

So the DCEU makes more money per capita. Good to know.

>Be honest. Did you watch Excalibur before or after BvS.

Yes, i'm not underage.

>"let's dress the hero in all black and bury him in a sea of skulls"

And there's nothing wrong with it. Specialy when then he both mirrors that image, and at the same time mirror comics.

youtube.com/watch?v=PxcXyK2_CzM