Still no Mastermen ongoing

For starters I doubt WB or the market would be warm to a story about a Nazi controlled world led by Superman and I doubt many writers would be willing to take on a project whose entire plot was determined prior to them coming on board.

Morrison designed the worls so anyone could write stories about them

There's a shit ton of ways to take it since the world is connected.

That's the really cool thing about spinning off stories from Multiversity. Its all connected.

I want MM Superman to chill with some other Supermen. Maybe Billy. It would rule to see the Marvels show up to help him out rebuilding Berlin and getting things in his world under control.

I want Kirby world's Kamandi to go looking for that power battery.

I want the Pirate Pulp world to conduct hit and run raids against other Earths.

I want the Zoo Crew to find themselves in the post apocalypse world.

I want Superdemon and his dark magic league to kick ass and take names.

Red Son, man. Superman wasn't just the leader of the Soviet Union, he also knew about the pogroms and actively participated in lobotomizing dissidents. That wasn't just published, it's also one of their most popular and successful Elseworlds stories to the extent that there were alternate skins and minigames devoted to Red Son on Injustice.

Nit at all. Rebirth is a return to the 2000-2010 status quo, safe titles, mostly big name characters(I mean, when was the last time the super family had so many titles?), safe house style art, no multiverse stuff, no new things.

>Morrison lost
good

I don't buy it man, I think the Manhattan stuff is absolutely a continuation of the Empty Hand

I hope he rapes you right in the multiverse.

And no scary confusing ideas

>I think the Manhattan stuff is absolutely a continuation of the Empty Hand

Yes, a dumb gimmick to sell comics is the absolute continuation of the empty hand, is not as if Morrison didnt had his own version of captain atom already. Is not as if Johns didnt shat on the Cosmic hierarchy of Gaiman and Morrison by putting a Captain Atom clone above the new gods. Or by killing the Anti-monitor in one panel in his last JL arc.

Morrison's take on the multiverse is not complementary to Johns. Johns doesnt want to share credits with anyone. He is a fanboy of himself, nothing wrong with that.

There is a difference between Nazis and Commies in popular perception.

He failed pretty hard with Mastermen as far as allowing other writers to develop the world.

>And no scary confusing ideas

Half the damn guidebook was "Batman as X" type stuff that previously killed Elseworlds, along with a good chunk of pre-existing material in general.

I really don't think it was Morrison that failed on getting his Multiversity comics turned into ongoings, but the rest of DC not secure enough to run with any of the comics that he presented.

I think the real issue is that while his ideas are good to explore, plenty of writers have worked with his ideas, his stories aren't really the best for followups. SoS and The Just ended with everyone dying, Mastermen has its plot set in stone, and Ultra is entirely self-contained.

The Just and Mastermen could easily have continuations.

I dunno. I think he did pretty well with offering the baton to future writers with Seven Soldiers, Batman, Mastermen and Secret Society of Super-Heroes.

Mastermen's problem is that you have to follow Morrison's plot. If I were the writer I'd take the core elements and do my own thing.

I much prefer Winick's take on Batwing than Morrisson's to be honest.

The Rebirth announcements literally, explicitely said that there was going to be "Multiversal mayhem"

And that doesnt mean anything.

Johns take on the multiverse is Johns take. You can't claim he and Morrison are on the same page when he turned the anti-monitor into a new god and manhattan is now above the new gods. He wants all the credit for himself.

delete Cred Forums

>"Multiversal mayhem"
And?

It's the same take though.

What does Cred Forums have to do with literally anything in this thread? Morrison depicted the Fourth Reich as a lifeless and rotting culture that's basically just waiting for someone to put it out of its misery.

It's weird no one brings up the DC equivalent of a lovecraftian God just sitting in its ass in the rotting corpse of a dead universe while it builds its doomsday machine

See, I don't think Morrison's ideas in Multiversity are too high concept for writers to pick up from...except for that. The Empty Hand and all of his cronies are ideas and characters that only Morrison could do well. Anyone else would seriously fuck them up.

And the guys fighting it as terrorists
And the normal people as normal people regardless of being nazis.

Which is how it would actually play out. Imagine if first nation people started to fight back against the people who now inhabit the American continent. Not only would it be a losing battle, but it would also be a guerilla campaign with random acts of terror.

And of course the normal people would be normal people. How else should they be? How else would the average person living in the Fourth Reich be depicted, in an honest way?

The idea is that he can never be defeated, but at the same time he can't outright end the story. The ending of the multiversity felt like it was leading up to another story because that's the nature of the multiverse, the stories never truly end
Morrison said after the release of the Multiversity collected edition that he and Johns had talked about their ideas for the multiverse and exchanged them. Also the DC Universe rebirth issue had a lot of metacommentary.

>Morrison said after the release of the Multiversity collected edition that he and Johns had talked about their ideas for the multiverse and exchanged them.

And? That doesnt means Johns actually would do it.

>Also the DC Universe rebirth issue had a lot of metacommentary.

kek. it was "i dindu noffin" and "barry dindu noffin".

That's the entire "meta" commentary... If anything the "meta" stuff was pretty much the opinion of a casual, thinking Watchmen was to blame for something. And that's retarded, speciually when stuff like killing Barry's mom was 100% the very same writer ideas, and no one forced him to do it.

I know, and that was good

>I know, and that was good

Then...why did you suggest that Mastermen was, in any way shape or form, pro-Nazi?

You really are limiting yourself if that's all that you got from the issue. Also since flashpoint began it had been established that Barry didn't create the new 52. People who insist that barry destroyed a multiverse are either memeing or retarded.

You know, it's kind of strange that Multiversity, one of Morrison's most light-hearted stories, ended on such a dour end with the Empty Hand being depicted as a greater threat to comics than anything else, while the Filth was one of his darkest efforts with a hand clutching a pen depicted in...I lost my train of thought.

Multiversity was pretty dark, every issue with exception of thunderworld and the finale ended with the world going to shit.

While that's true, it wasn't even remotely as dark as The Filth, which seems to be a companion piece, the more I think about it. The implication that the creative force isn't as positive as usually thought being a huge point in both stories.

No, just that it was a fair representation of what it wanted to represent, instead of easy propaganda as most nazi representations in american media are.

No, Morrison and Winick's versions had completely different backgrounds, settings, and supporting cast.

? Are you drunk? The used the same setting and background. Morrison didn't use him much so he didn't really have a supporting cast before that ongoing.

From his brief appearances Morrison's Batwing was wealthy and had two associates that worked with him. Winick's Batwing was a cop/local vigilante who was sponsored by Batman with only a single associate who functioned in an Alfred-esque role.

Finally finished Multiversity, about three hours ago, Mastermen was easily the "worst" book. Also got damn Pax Americana is dense, I can't tell if the Gentry won or lost with the end of the age of superheroes.

I might be slowpoke or captain obvious, but the "empty hand" refers to your page holding open the book by it's spine.

Dude, read the annotations on Comics Alliance, especially for Pax Americana. The amount of detail in that book is far greater than you think.

The Empty Hand is the non-creatives that still exercise control over comic books. People whose hands are empty of any tool to produce art.

The Multiversity as a ground for other writers to expand upon is a retarded idea, not to mention outdated, this was the 2008ish OG Multiversity idea, that has very little to do with the great limited series we got.
If even Waid couldn't make Kingdom Come work in an ongoing, what hope does Writey McWriterson have of making Grant's donut steel Batman-as-pirate worth a read?

When Morrison was talking about the comic as the begging of a series of ongoings, he explicitly stated crossovers should be kept to an absolute minimum.

The Empty Hand is also easily interpreted as either the audience or Morrison himself.

And it really depends on how you're interpreting "worst." I'd put SoS, The Just, or Thunderworld as the worst for three very different criteria.

Yeah, but the audience's hand isn't empty because they're holding the comic, and Morrison's hand isn't empty because he's writing the thing.

And I'm not sure I would say that any of them are 'worse' than any other, even grading on a curve. I mean, I think I enjoyed the Just the least, but that's about the worst thing that I can say about any of them.

>Yes, a dumb gimmick to sell comics
Oh fuck off with the high and mighty talk, you're talking about Morrison, he loves meditation, kooky pseudo-science bullshit but he's not a dirty fucking hippie, like his disdan for the small minded, "bring em down to our level" Glasgow mindset and his early deadbeat hippie british editors. You're talking about the america dicksucking, MBE estabilishment, big editor loving semi-yuppie that unironically poses next to supercars on his twitter

>is the absolute continuation of the empty hand
Absolutely, either Manhattan or the reader Ultra Comics self insert serve as corrupted omnipotent beings above creation, experimenting without regard for lifes "he" considers fictiona, tainted by modern pessimism, thirst for control and militarization, and the deconstruction mindset brought on by Watchmen.

>Morrison's take on the multiverse is not complementary to Johns.
Morrison isn't an auther, his vision of the DC universe is expanding, stretching and abusing concepts introduced by other writers, like Waid's Speedforce, Ellis' Bleed. One of the best parts of Morrison's universal tapestry is how he distances himself from his creation, contrary to Alan Moore's delusional control freak mindset, Morrison's concepts of rogue logics and symbols organically accept others visions, like John's more grounded view.

The Empty Hand falls apart as a metaphor when put to something concrete, if anything it's market trends.

SoS is the worst because it's not functional narrative. It introduces the two groups, then skips to the finale, and ends on a to be continued. The Just is the worst because it's an exceptionally boring story about people being shitty towards each other then everyone dies and we're supposed care for some reason. I couldn't explain how the world hadn't already been taken over by the Gentry if I tried. Thunderworld is the worst because it's functionally separate from the Multiversity story, linked tenuously through characters but nothing else, and is full of Morrison's hard-on for Silver Age sensibilities while indulging in things he criticizes about modern comics.

But I'd have to say the worst part of Multiversity is the Guidebook, which is nothing but filler.

Oh, I've read them, I spent three hours dissecting Pax before and picked up most "factual" details like the three eyes and hidden eights before, my problem ComicsAlliance, and people with some more "out there" stuff in general is how easily they then jump to absolute conclusions, Earth and Adam's fates are ultimately left open ended, and though you can make a few links with Question's colors theory, I think it's purposeful misdirection nonsense playing off Rorschach's equally nonsense, but more widely accepted, Randian ethics.

test

This.

Best new character in Multiversity?

I think so.

I agree with you on the Question bit, especially since his jabbering about color theory fades into background noise, which was an especially nice touch, but I read the thing as a cycle that these characters and that Earth is trapped inside of, with no hope of ever escaping. The whole thing is structured like an infinity sign which is, after all, an eight tipped on its side.

The lack of Superdemon and Earth-13 is my biggest complaint on Multiversity, especially after the bits about him in the Final Crisis supplemental material. I was hyped beyond belief for an entirely magic-based Justice League led by Etrigan, and I was left sorely disappointed.

SoS has great art, charming characters and is second only to Ultra on overreaching story relevance, I think the narrative is just fine, it reminds me of wartime radio stories full of derring-do, and the ending is as definite as they come, maybe just missing a last splash page moneyshot?

>and we're supposed care for some reason.
You're not, 10/10 genius, I loved The Just.

>I couldn't explain how the world hadn't already been taken over by the Gentry if I tried
I think you're interpreting The Gentry as a limbo-like force, while in my mind it's more of a definite, destructive force, and by designs needs conflict, rituals and sacrifices to take hold in a world, The Just was essentially Pax Americana's president endgame, a world of absolute peace, because as we see in SoS and later in Multiversity #2 and the Guidebook, the Gentry needs stuff like the sacrifice of heroes and the use portal cubes to enter a world.

>Thunderworld is the worst because it's functionally separate from the Multiversity story, linked tenuously through characters but nothing else, and is full of Morrison's hard-on for Silver Age sensibilities while indulging in things he criticizes about modern comics.
Eh, hopeful superheroes, and the specific Thunderworld Marvel family, play a key role in ending all the crisis, and the Sivana corps become the Gentry's most powerful agent from that issue on.

>But I'd have to say the worst part of Multiversity is the Guidebook, which is nothing but filler.
Eh, fair enough, I loved the chibi rampage, the gibbberish future terms and you just can't fuck with Kirby verse and another OMAC, I think Mastermen is the worst (least great) because the characters are more unlikeable than The Just, and Jim Lee has a blander, houser styler style than even the guys on Ultra and mainline Multiversity comics, not to mention it's completely irrelevant to the larger story, zero Gentry, no hero on Hall of Heroes, no comicbook portals or 4th wall break.

SoS' story relevance isn't the issue. Wartime radio stories at the very least followed an act structure. SoS' characters were one note with the Atom being the only developed one of the lot.

>You're not, 10/10 genius, I loved The Just.
Intentional shit is still shit. Your interpretation is also countered by Ms. Miracle's dialogue at the end where we're supposed to identify with her right before her death. As for conflict, rituals, and sacrifices to take hold in a world, those would have occurred before the The Just takes place. And it was a definite, destructive force as it essentially led to the collapse of society and culture, at least among the superheroes. One can also assume the Superman Robots did a number on militaries and law enforcement as well.

The Sivana Corps don't amount to much through the rest of the series, though individual Sivanas do.

Mastermen is much more subtle in its connections. The comic portal is the one Hitler is reading at the beginning, where he corrupts the idea of the superhero into willing tool of the state to crush freedom. The fourth wall breaking is metatextual, referencing Red Son implicitly. Jim Lee was a great choice for Mastermen, the only issue was the inker and colorist kept his hatching. Jim Lee draws in a pin-up style, with defined muscles and Olympian physiques, that when paired with cleaner, simplified inking style could have given Mastermen an amazing propaganda poster art style.

>Your interpretation is also countered by Ms. Miracle's dialogue at the end where we're supposed to identify with her right before her death.
The selfies with vapid social media posts after she mistreats her maid and tells her neighbors to fuck off? I didn't get that as intended to identify with her at all, it's just hitting the final nail on how doomed that Earth is.

>As for conflict, rituals, and sacrifices to take hold in a world, those would have occurred before the The Just takes place.
During the standard superhero years? That'd be pretty bland and lame, to me The Just's whole hook is seeing this really slow car crash that everyone ignores, like Kafka side characters and trying to find clues of the Gentry's MO, it's only the third issue but we get the Gendry lady, Thunderworld, Multiverse #2 a direct link to SoS and several pages of the meat of Ultra Comics,

>One can also assume the Superman Robots did a number on militaries and law enforcement as well.
That's a big stretch, The Just superheroes, especially the older guard that still have some spirit in them, seem to work by standard superhero rulebooks, and even new guards know, and if they care about it enough, strive, to follow standard superhero heroics, there's nothing indicating changes in world goverment or superheroes taking over state or people power, if anything it's the exact opposite of this popular Elsewords archetype, the info we get on the Superman Robots is that they were created by Superman and that they're the "most foolproof and sophisticated planetary defense system ever created",the Superman Robots robbed superheroes of their one purpose, and they just accepted it, grew fat and lazy.

1/2

>The Sivana Corps don't amount to much through the rest of the series, though individual Sivanas do.
I think it's the direct opposite, individual Sivana personalities aren't good for more than two panel gags, while the Sivanas as agents of Gendry cause the whole conflict on Mastermen and dominate the Guidebook and Multiverse #2 issues.

>The comic portal is the one Hitler is reading at the beginning
By comic portal I mean the "magic" Multiverse comics acting as bridges between worlds and infecting it with Gentry, Hitler is holding a regular Superman comics, and other worlds didn't need standard superhero comics book to generate superheroes, although using regular comic books as moral trend setters, corrupting the idea of Superman on Mastermen and redeeming the president/saving Adam on Pax Americana, it's a much more tenuous connection, regular comic books show up on almost every issue and do diddlysquat for their readers.

>The fourth wall breaking is metatextual, referencing Red Son
Yeah, that's not a fourth wall break.

2/2

>there's nothing indicating changes in world goverment or superheroes taking over state or people power

Not what I meant. I mean that the the Superman Robots would largely render militaries and law enforcement obsolete. Search and rescue and certain types of disaster response too.

The comic Hitler is holding isn't a real Superman comic, none of the comics seen in Mastermen are real comics.

Here's a pretty great analysis of Mastermen that covers its themes of corruption through the lens of opera: dcmultiversehistorian.wordpress.com/2015/02/21/guest-post-the-ring-of-the-mastermen/

I liked master man it gave a take on what happen when ideology crumbles after a fascist society wins it slowly rots until someone else shows up to finish it off with the freedom fighters being mass mustering terrorist while ultraman slowly drowns himself in guilt worked pretty damn good

Not to mention that it's left totally in the air who the actual traitor is. Just because Jimmy thinks it's Overman doesn't mean it is, after all. I've read a few fairly convincing theories on Cred Forums about other possible traitors.

I'd put money on U-Man. Atlantis still exists as a client state of the Nazis and a collapse of the Reich means they'd be cut off from the surface for a long time.

Not to mention that I'd want revenge if my name was Unterwaterman.

Evidence against other traitors is super, super thin, besides whatever that Aquaman was called grievance's, Overman obviously hated the situation, maybe lied about Human Bomb and checked on him before the satellite explosion.

That and a "whodunnit" kind of mystery doesn't make sense with the tone of the book, the League barely appears, this is Superman's drama, tragedy being caused by his own hand with unforseen results, he was used by the Freedom Fighters just like how he was used Third Reich, the Freedom Fighters kept him in the dark with Metropolis just like the Third Reich kept him in the dark with racial genocide.

What are all the actual German hero names?
Overman would be Ubermensch, Underwaterman would be Unterwassermensch, Lightning would be Blitzen, I guess Brunhilde would be the same.

I dunno. I mean, yeah, all the evidence points to Overman, but that's way too obvious. I think it's much more likely that he's being played for a patsy while the real traitor gets away with it.

I think the much more likely culprit, out of anyone else in the Mastermen, is Leatherwing. His grandfather was Enemy Ace, after all, someone who had no allegiance to the Third Reich whatsoever. In fact, I'm willing to bet that he was probably killed by the Reich for disloyalty, ala Rommel.

And while, yes, the Human Bomb went off with him nearby, Earth-0's Batman has escaped much worse circumstances and it's much easier to operate in the shadows when everyone on Earth is pretty damn positive that you're dead.

Of course, there probably won't be a followup, so it's all speculation that won't go anywhere, but it's fun to speculate.

Guess the super Nazis weren't a creative bunch

>just like the Third Reich kept him in the dark with racial genocide.

Concentration and labor camps were already up and running by the time his rocket landed, the Wannsee conference took place four years later, considering his high position within the Nazi hierarchy it's highly improbable that he didn't know about the genocide. While it'd fit with the book that Overman was intentionally ignoring it, nothing in the text supports that conclusion and it reads more like Morrison not wanting Overman to be complicit with the Nazis' crimes.

Young Animals is RIGHT there.

Also y'all didn't BUY Prez or Omega Men or DC Western.

Overman doesn't seem to have a high position in the Nazi hierarchy at all, he's a dumb, powerful Millerlike government figurehead stooge, regular troopers like Overman didn't know what was happening in concentration or labour camps, "intentional ignoring" is a superficial way to look at complete ideological blinding, which can't even be called brainwashing because he was born into it and knew no other way of life.

Besides regular WW2 atrocities, there's whatever happened in his three year space exile that seem to overshadow anything that happened before it, enough to shock Overman out of his ignorance/blind eye.

To me, the theme of the book is Overman doing his best to do what's right in a tragic world, supporting an ideology without fully understanding the mechanics behind it, bringing about his own downfall and tragedy, just like the idealistic Greek heroes, in the drama/opera vibe this book is going for.

Overman isn't a regular trooper. If Morrison really wanted Overman to be uninvolved with the atrocities of the Nazi regime he should have made the Nazis win earlier or given Overman the post-Crisis treatment where he doesn't develop his powers until he's in his mid-teens.

You can be involved without being complicit, which is what Morrison was going for, I think. Rommel may have made sure that none of his POWs went to camps and he may have hated the regime, telling himself that he was fighting for Germany and not for Hitler, but his actions still ensured that the Holocaust happened.

I think that's the best way to look at Overman, like Rommel.

That would be the "intentionally ignoring" that I mentioned earlier. The actual text supports complete ignorance.

Grant Morrison

Not really as it was all ground to ash.

Nothing launched out of Seven Soldiers

Batman Inc was stillborn stupid and the very thing everybody complains about in modern Batman comics.

I mean he's an idea guy with ideas nobody wants

You'd first have to find some one who gave a shit about though.

I want someone to go a convention and and just ask every DC writer and editor they can find about Multiversity.

>The Mastermen were the only real heroes in Multiversity

While I agree with your sentiment, don't get caught in the Cred Forums contrarian bubble, Batgod is immensely popular, from complete normies to obsessive collectors, and Batman Inc launched another widely lauded series in Grayson.

>and the very thing everybody complains about in modern Batman comics

Fuck off. It was a great time for batman

Grayson was launched out of Forever Evil and while its builds a nest out of the corpse of Batman Inc doesn't mean it was hatched there.

Batman Inc officially launched one book.

Batwing which for reasons never discovered launched a radically different character than the one featured in Batman Inc.

Morrison's most well received concept by other writers is also his simplest.

Bruce Wayne's biological son.

It was also the very thing people whine about modern Batman comics.

1. There are too many Batman comics

Morrison spawned two ancillary Batman titles B&R and Inc.

2. Batman had too many sidekicks.

Morrison spawned Damien, Squire, Squire 2, Batwing, Nightrunner, so on etc.

Oh please, you don't really believe that. Dick Grayson having his identity exposed is completely superfluous to the series, though of course the buzz around the event helped sales, while Spyral, the lunacy tone, and all the wacko sidecharacters like Netz and Kathy Kane were integral to Grayson.

>Muh likeable characters
Fuck off

Oh please, you don't really believe that. All the Inc characters don't count as sidekicks, Morrison introduced a Robin and killed him off by the end of his run, like the Batman Inc title itself. And doesn't the sucess of the (now already defunct) lighter toned, more adventure focused B&R title under different writers like Tomasi and Winick run contrary to your idea that no one wants to follow Morrison's ideas?

2 titles. How is it supposed to be Morrison's fault that there are like 5 batbooks currently.

Also out of all the sidekicks you mentioned the only ones that have been used regularly since then are Damian and Batwing, and the last one is a stretch.

Who has the screencap explaining the Hypercrisis and how Seven Soliders is Grant Morrison's way of combating nihilism.

Nothing launched out of Seven Soldiers immediately. Final Crisis along with several lead-ins were direct continuations of Seven Soldiers, Frankenstein had an ongoing that took extensively from SSoV, and Klarion retained his SSoV characterization for years. Nothing in Zatanna was unique or different, Bulleteer was concluded in a way that made reappearances as a superhero clash with her character, Ystin retained a few elements, and no one cared about Manhattan Guardian.

Batman, Inc had Grayson and Batwing spin off of it.

Fuck off, Morrison cult of personality cock sucking weak willed kook, go read some shitty pseudo science middle aged midwestern lady self help and stop shitting up a perfectly good comics discussion. I love Morrison's comics, hate his retarded fanbase.

Ystin was also in Demon Knights right?

I fucking love 7S Klarion and wish there was more ,more more

That version of Ystin, with that exact characterization, was on New52's launch cult hit, Demon Knights.

Convergence was probably never meant to be a stellar happening, since it was really nothing more than a cover story for DC's move from New York to Burbank when editors would have more on their hands than they could handle.

If anything, it was a glorified Earth-2 event.

Welcome to the Hypercrisis.
Everything is connected, whether you intended it or not.

Not really.

Like I said Morrison's simplest idea Bruce's biological child has been the one others writers want to write

But largely it's been a single acolyte in Morrison's carrying that torch by the name of Peter Tomasi.(who everybody on this website bitched about getting the tone/character of Damien wrong).

And Tomasi explicitly whent against Morrison's lighter tone by reducing Damien to a murderer again and turning Bruce into an emotional cripple against Morrison's explicit wishes.

As for Winick we are talking about the Hack who wrote Nu52 Catwoman who wrestled with a psychopath who murdered prostitutes and posed thier body like dolls

Or

Are we talking about the Winick who launched the Nu52 Batwing that was a former child soldier and a cop compared with the Batman Inc Batwing who was a doctor?

Yea no Winick only wrote B&R to save his beloved Jason Todd.

The Ystin of Demon Knights was very different than the Ystina of SSoV.

>I lost my train of thought.
That'll happen when you talk about The Filth.
You feel like you have some angle or realization, but when you go to write it out, it flies away halfway through.

Morrison spawned two ancillary Bat-tiles(that he didn't need to).

During that time the Batbooks where

Batman
Detective Comics
Batman & Robin
Batman Inc
Knight and Squire
Batgirl
Birds or Prey
Red Robin
Gotham City Sirens
Streets of Gotham
Secret Six
Batwoman

Morrison isn't even the best Damian writer. He was one of the worst when Damian was new.

Revisiting Winick's Catwoman was actually pretty good desu, in terms of ongoing it's second only to Gotham City Sirens and Will Pfeifer, it was just the perfect shitstorm of New52 launch animosity with rising repressed feminist outrage culture, his real lowpoint is Outsiders.

And Tomasi B&R is flat out pretty, pretty, pretty good. Cred Forums is just sort of a shit board.

Seven Soldiers came out in 05-06

The books you are taking about came out 5 years later because of the Nu52.

And Final Crisis is Morrison following Morrison.

Spider-Gwen is a successful spinoff of an event book, it came out less than a year after the event that popularized the character with a well received creative team.

Frankenstein, Sir Yistin, and Klarion came out years later with books people did not give a fuck about.

Frankie and Yistin were on critically acclaimed and inventive books, stop treating comic books like it's a bottom line competitive sales thing, that's an embarassing post 2010 Cred Forums approach.

And propping up later, with no fanfare or momentum from events, only shows that the ideas themselves were interesting and worthy of further exploration, instead of being quick cashgrabs like the fucking Lobdell Doomed spinoff, or Talon, or Telos....

I enjoyed Multiversity so much I stopped reading comics.

Those books where not critically acclaimed.

I, Vampire was critically acclaimed.

Animal Man was critically acclaimed.

Wonder Woman, Batman, Swamp Thing where critically acclaimed.

Shade and Demon Knights where two middle of the road books that never went higher than average and I say that as someone who thinks Demon Knights has been unfairly overlooked.

I will always think that Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE is one of the greatest casualties of the nu52. Ignored by both most of the critics and the fans, despite it being all around excellent.

Rebirth needs something along that line of pure, audacious weirdness.

comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/dc-comics/wonder-woman-(2011)#collected-volumes
comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/dc-comics/wonder-woman-(2011)#collected-volumes

I hate aggregators, but feel free to read each individual Demon Knights review, then you can go and read each site's reaction to cancellation.

There's the Young Animal line, but so far it has been pure shit. Talentless hacks soullessly trying to emulate Morrison's worst bits.

First issue of Doom Patrol was good enough to keep me around for the first arc.

Not nearly weird enough, though.

I don't know if you are autistic or not, but 3 years of critically acclaimed Azz/Chiang Wonder Woman really outweighs the "this was okay" reviews Demon Knights got

If we're using agreggators, both fluctuate in the flat 8 range. Besides that, both were critically acclaimed and I regularly have sex and take showers.

>Spider-Gwen is a successful spinoff of an event book, it came out less than a year after the event that popularized the character with a well received creative team.

And it already reads like it has no long term idea what to do with itself aside from doing the usual "oh character X is like Y in this universe".

Multiversity didn't sell so good.

>shitty pseudo science middle aged midwestern lady self help
If you take this out of Morrison's comics, all you're left with is someone cutting up random Silver Age panels and pasting them onto sheets of paper with the word "metafiction" written on them 52 times.

Nah. He's GOAT tier and an amazing talent, dude just has dumb interests and intolerable zealot fans, much like Gaiman and Moore.

Len Wein panels, not random Silver Age panels.

>It was also the very thing people whine about modern Batman comics.

If that were true, those books wouldnt sell.

Objectively wrong people whine about a lot of things in comics that sell.

Snyder, Bendis, Variant covers, event books

>Bendis, Variant covers, event books
Civil War 2's sales figures would disagree with you.

What's wrong with Brubaker and Cooke?

Only one issue came out you fuck

>These are the faggots who post on Cred Forums