Who is your favorite Batgirl?

Cass.

JUST GIVE HER ORPHAN COSTUME THE DAMN EARTIPS, DC.

Barbara.

Cass is the only one that doesn't work better under a different identity so her being Batgirl is ideal Batfamily composition.

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>not posting the edit

Cass by a longshot

So I haven't really read anything with Cassandra Cain's Batgirl but based on what I've read on Cred Forums it appears that just about everyone liked her (MUCH more than Barbara as Batgirl) which makes it strange that someone at DC decided at some point to have her give up being Batgirl? If she was so well-liked, then why not just keep her on as Batgirl? And of all people they had Stephanie Brown take here place as Batgirl? Really? Like I'd understand if they had, say, decided to restore Barbara's mobility and bring her back as Batgirl. I don't know if I would agree with that but I'd least understand it, bringing back the first original Batgirl, a Batgirl loved by many, the Batgirl who I think no one would argue isn't the most iconic. But Stephanie Brown? I just don't really understand the thought process behind that decision.

They were fucking, right?

Definitely

Men like Cassandra. Women like Barbara.

Faggots like Stephanie.

Edit?

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This is my guess. for things like that. And for why Batgirl (Barbara) is the way she is now. Steph and yolo Babs appeal to young female readers. They are more relatable characters to that group. And you know I say young female but really most females. Either they are, they were, or they wanted to be the cute and fun but capable girl that had some complex relationship with the cute boy.It's something like the female version of a power fantasy. No girl wants to be or has a desire to identify with the scarred, abused... quiet perfect weapon. And Batgirl the character an the comic was created to appeal to female readers. Bring in Female readers. As much as I like Cass and liked her book I don't think she was someone that appealed to a great deal of female readers. Same thing with Oracle version of Babs. Same thing with Wonder Woman in all honesty.

...

Okay, to put it bluntly, some at DC have an "iconic" fetish or hate female characters. When Cassandra's series ended you had a bunch of these two forms running the Bat Books.

About all the current writers at the time didn't really use the character. The last time she appeared in the main comics was the prelude to War Games. She was specifically left out of Hush, because of stupid reasons.

Anyway, they just killed Stephanie Brown and now these editors turned their attention to Cassandra. They figured with new Batwoman ongoing being introduced soon (written by Devin Grayson) that Cassandra's wasn't needed. So they axed it.

Ironically, Devin's version of Batwoman never got to see the life of day and that too was axed. So the cancellation was pointless.

Still, with Jason being "good" over in Nightwing, Editors felt someone needed to be the black sheep amongst the family. They decided to put it on Cassandra in the most half-assed way possible in Robin.

The "heel" turn was not very liked. Didio himself threw Robin writer Adam Beechen under the bus at numerous panels. So they went back to undoing it.

1/2

A year passed were basically fans were content with what they got. She was in Batman & the Outsiders and a new mini was announced.

Then the writer for B&O rage-quit over Batman R.I.P. among them interfering with his ongoing plots. Then Beechen was announced as writer for the mini.

Any fan of the character at that point knew whatever product they were going to get was going to be a storytime of pain.. and it was.

Upper management then used the excuse of the mini bombing that the character couldn't garner readership so they began to decide what to do with her and who to replace her with.

Ironically, Barbara was going to be Batgirl after Cassandra. The ground-work was all there after Birds of Prey ending with hints via Brightest Day of Barbara back in the suit and making out with Dick.

However of all people, Gail Simone put her foot down on the idea. So we got Stephanie instead.
Here's basically the "official" take on it all.

Note Cassandra fans had to wait another year before the character was used when this was published. They've also gotten sick of the words, "We've got plans." and "stayed tuned."

Of course this is the abridged version. The only known facts are Adam Beechen was the one told to do the heel turn and the editors (Pete Tomasi) didn't really at all care.

Tomasi isn't really fond of the character, he's ignored her in any of his runs on the various Batman or family comics.

Didio was the one who basically wanted to return Cassandra to the "silent, yet deadly" character.

Simone recently on Tumblr hinted that there was great distaste that upper management had with the character.

Scott Snyder since he came onto the Batman comics has tried to bring the character or use her numerous times over. Ironically, Harper Row was created due to upper management not allowing him to use Cassandra for the New 52.

Nowadays, there are fans of the character in the Batman offices. Though.. some people on Cred Forums would probably say better to limbo again than have James Tynion IV have his hands in using her.

Keep in mind though Rebirth means, the previous antics Cass had still happened, and she was changed/de-aged purposely. Which could mean a larger role for Cassandra in the future? Probably not. I've been beaten down by DC management for ten years. I'm just grateful their re-releasing her ongoing in trades again.

Ok I'm interested, what edit?

Go to /aco/. See Batgirl thread then profit.

cass always just seems like the internets wet dream of a batgirl without substance srry.

didn't Simone have plans where she'd like find religion and be in all white and like Angel of Deathy or something

To also be fair.. artist Pop Mhan (who was drawing He-Man comics for DC currently) was the final artist of Cassandra's ongoing and did a small two-parter of fan service. One is this.. the other is official drawn on DC paper nsfw.

Simone gave a pitch right when the series was being canceled (and she even confesses the idea wasn't the best, nor she had a handle of the character then) of Cassandra finding religion and being an "Angel of the Bat".

It was a baaaad idea. Just.. when compared to being Talia-lite? I dunno. Like two paths that were equally yucky.

Cass for sure. There are some iterations of Babs I like but a lot I don't. Steph is OK but I'm neither here nor there on her really. Rebirth is slowly changing that though.

the vibe i got as an observer was it was a saving throw attempt that didn't' save

You can see the moment her heart breaks.

yes, and Tim was the bottom in both relationships.

While I don't agree with everything you said (for example I believe Oracle did appeal to female readers, specifically disabled female readers), I do think you have brought up a good point, about how some female characters may be more appealing to men than women and vice versa and why.

Cass

have they fixed that stupid orphan shit yet

Her new code name is going to be Flamebird, I'm hoping for.

>Harper was Snyder's revenge for not getting Cass
now it makes more sense that it's such a badly written character

Cass>Steph>Bette>Actual Dogshit>Babs

>I'm just grateful their re-releasing her ongoing in trades again.
Yeah, that was a big surprise for me. Maybe whoever decides what comes out as trades is separate from this mess? Next one in January yo.

Cass got most of those scars in training.

She needs a cape too. The Orphan costume is just shit.

Early B:TAS, when her outfit was grey.

Timm, please stop samefagging.

I liked Steph as Batgirl, but that's because the suit fit her very well. Plus her interactions with Supergirl and Damien were great

Is that from her ongoing?

Yes, the last issue.

Whomever that is must be a fan. Her first trade came out on her "birthday". That's just too kooky to be coincidence.

Just merge her and Gordon Bat's suit. It's a perfect modern update!!!

Right, it even has the unnecessary lines that Jim Lee loves so much.

Exactly! Now he can't bs and say her costume is difficult to draw.

What is supposed to be difficult about Cass's classic costume except the belt?

OP! MINE'S CASSANDRA CAIN! SHE MY BAGURL

nenenenenenene Baaagurl!

She looks like she is wearing the Ronin costume from Marvel

Tim

Apparently that costume stretches and is invulnerable since Cass has been wearing it since she was a child and it still fits and has barely suffered wear and tear.