Was he a lefty or a righty?

I have a cousin who's so liberal it's borderline brain damage. She's also a full blown socialist who loves Star Trek. I can't wait to fuck up her life with this.

classical lefty

STRONGBOW!

I don't think most socialists would have a problem with an ancillary free market when every human's biological needs are taken care of, and leisure/entertainment is free. There's no class struggle when you don't have to worry about putting a roof over your head, or food on your table.

>money isn't an issue, Federation owns everything
>works for glorious space navy
>hates concept of God (Q)

yeah he's a commie

>every other race has starships filled with their own species
>federation was the only "multicultural" ship
>1960s

tfw star trek was (((star trek)))
feels shitty man

I'm not a native english speaker, but doesn't Jean-Luc actor sound a little over the top in some dialogues?
Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but it's weird that he talks like a Shakespearean actor in a series that really didn't have great acting outside him.

stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html

He actually was a theater actor before Star Trek. In interviews, the rest of the cast comment on how his presence inspired them to take their craft more seriously.

Star Trek is interesting.

They believe in accepting others, but they also understand that people are different and it's good to keep it that way.

No melting pot, forcing people to assimilate into a culture, or anything.

Gene Roddenberry was a Communist according to point #2 on this list:

979litefm.com/ten-things-you-didnt-know-star-trek-creator-gene-roddenberry/

Star Trek is Marxist-Leninist propaganda that is supposed to show what the final stage of Communism would be like after all of the bourgeoisie and property owners had been killed off and liquidated (the fact that there is no money in Star Trek should be a big tip off that they are living in a Communist society, also the Ferengi are the only capitalists who own large amounts of money and private property in the Star Trek universe).

Most people see free stuff and seem to assume communism. That collectivist mindset almost destroyed all of humanity in the Star Trek universe. WW3 was a very big lesson for humanity that nothing is more important than individual rights. In Picard's time, people came together and voluntarily joined the federation because frankly they had nothing better to do and there were alien threats out there. They lived in a post-scarcity society as a result of capitalism, taught courses in Starfleet Academy on how to trade and erected statues and built universities named after notable capitalists. Communists (Borg) and corporate globalist shysters (Ferengi\Jew) were always portrayed as villains.

>Was he a lefty or a righty?

Star Trek humanity is basically the socialist utopia.

Star Trek prime directive ("don't interfere in the natural evolution of things even if it means death to sentient people") is right wing as fuck.

They're extremely socially liberal to a fault, and want to hold other alien races to their ideals of liberty.

Tbh you see what you want in Star Trek because it has some of everything. It's not clear cut one way or another, other than the focus on freedom and liberty ideals.

>Star Trek is Marxist-Leninist propaganda that is supposed to show what the final stage of Communism would be like after all of the bourgeoisie and property owners had been killed off

That is laughably retarded. You obviously know nothing about the history of earth in the Star Trek universe. It was the communists and socialists that were killed off. How? They killed each other in WW3. Free market capitalism became the norm, even after the replicator was invented. The means of production was never collectively owned or centrally owned by the federation. Everyone was free to trade and pursue their own interests. That is not communism, even if there was a replicator giving free stuff.

>Was he a lefty or a righty?

More accurately, was he an authoritarian or a libertarian?

He stood for the right of cultures to exist wven when he strongly disagreed with them. Reminder that Starfleet literally encountered a Nazi planet and only backed them off of genociding a group but otherwise left them alone.

A better question, would Picard allow Massive Klingon immigration to Earth and federation planets like Vulcan? They are refugees fleeing a Klingon Civil war. There are also many suitable workds near Klingon space but for some reason the Ferangi steongly oppose this.

Would Picard:
A. Accept all the Klingons and allow in illegal Romulans, all while pushing to ban federation citizens from having the right to oppose this or own phasers.

or

B. Would Picard see Klingons integrated into Federation space and Earth as a potential threat and make efforts to represent the people of the Federation that are overwhelmingly opposed to it, all while finding a suitable compromise and while patrolling the Nuetral Zone?

Picard might be really tolorant of things but where it mattered, he was a gun weilding boarder enforcing Klingon fighting idealist. I believe he has way mire in common with Trump than Hillary.

>Reminder that Starfleet literally encountered a Nazi planet and only backed them off of genociding a group but otherwise left them alone.
What episode was this?

Forgot pic related.

personally that's what i want to happen for us. it's like how blacks get offended if you say they have a low IQ but not if you say they're big and powerful. it's like if you told a vulcan that they were strong and intelligent weren't allowed to criticize their lack of emotion

everyone is equal, but not the same

Checked and Picard also had racist feelings against the Borg after they sodomized him.

>righty
>star trek
>best star trek
>righty

Communism is a huge simplification of Federation economics. Economics, as a subject, deals with production, consumption, and the distribution of scarce resources. In the Trek universe technology has progressed to the point where energy is near infinite. With this level of technological advancement, particularly regarding energy, almost every rule of economics has been suspended. While collectivism is certainly alive and well, there seem to be few rules governing private property.

Also, Picard always struck me as a mainstream conservative.

Dude
lmgtfy.com/?q=Star Trek Episode with Nazis

What would Cred Forums do with a Replicator?
> make more replicators!!!
> ok, now replace every 4th new replicator with a Hilter
> ok, now gas all market-dominating minorities and everyone with a below-average IQ
> Sig Fucking Heil!

This is why Star Trek could never exist in the real world.

He was clearly a libertarian. He managed to prove in court that an android deserved individual negative rights because sentience can't be proven or disproven. Replicating Data would have benefited all of humanity, but they didn't because of his individual rights. They didn't even know if he was sentient, they simply gave him the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't get any more libertarian, anti-collectivist than that.

>free trade is communist
>libertarianism is communism

You can't replicate a replicator

youtube.com/watch?v=vjuQRCG_sUw

good space goyim

Ah, the original series. Thought you meant the TNG.

I liked that episode. But as you put it
>Replicating Data would have benefited all of humanity
If it's not flesh, why not have Datas on all Federation ships?
I guess it goes against Federation principals, they rather die than be something akin to slave owners.

Yes you can.
> replicate half a replicator.
> replicate other half of a replicator.
> replicate a robot to bolt the halves together.

In other words:
> durr it's the current year, we use replicators to make everything!
> except not replicators, or replicator parts. Those are "special".
It sounds like you're saying there's a Jewish monopoly on replicator production in the Star Trek universe.

scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/28960/can-a-replicator-replicate-a-replicator

libertarian

Obviously the borg would be Cred Forums

How long have you been on here, a day? Nobody here agrees on anything like the Borg would. Like factions of Feminists do.

>I guess it goes against Federation principals, they rather die than be something akin to slave owners.

3:50

youtu.be/vjuQRCG_sUw?t=3m50s

The borg wants an all borg race world wide theyre basically in a race war with everyone else how is that not/pol/

Star trek federation is 100% fascist. You'll never see person without uniform which decides anything.

My communist friend argued to me that Star Trek is what they envision the future to be. How there's nothing left to do other than travel.

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform!"

Classical liberal.

QUARK, NO ONE EVER WENT BROKE SELLING WEAPONS.

Everyone in Star Trek is a lefty, man.
The whole show is a lefty utopia. No money, no currency, just working because you want to give back to your fellow man (alien)

> You can't replicate a replicator

>scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/28960/can-a-replicator-replicate-a-replicator

I clicked your link and found this:

> Yes.

> In the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode "Call to Arms", Sisko mines the entrance to the Bajoran wormhole using self-replicating cloaking mines. Each mine contains a replicator capable of producing another mine, that also contains a replicator.

tl;dr: your link says replicators CAN replicate other replicators, and DID replicate other replicators in one Star Trek episode.

pic related

>tfw tits and moral principle were the only things stopping him from straight up genociding the Borg.

Picard was based af, and Janeway was an absolute madwoman

Neither. He was clearly a baldy.

>connect transporter to replicator
>IMMORTALITY

Gene Roddenberry BTFO

>youtube.com/watch?v=VN-By1PE_JM

Because the people with uniforms own the ships the show takes place on... Non-starfleet humans have more freedom than any country does today.

>Video not available

You better just use your own words what happens as well. The video is just the source.

Cred Forums is shitposting. Feminists are Borg because you describe how they think, not this site.

Yes you do. The president was an Trump-look alike Alien in civilian clothing.

Why do audiences adore Picard? Really? The actor is charming, but the character is easily one of the most insufferable out of any series.

Yo, I heard you like replicators

Of course you have freedoms when troopers just blew up everything which dared to oppose them.

>Yo, I heard you like replicators

Hard to say, as many people do not care for migrants.

>implying you don't die everytime you use tne transporter

Because he's as /alpha/ as you can be without going full Kirk

There is currency in Star Trek and even free market capitalism. The show takes place on a single ship that has replicators. Outside of that ship people trade unique goods. They have also shown them trading with each other on the ship. The idea was things that came out of the replicator were bland and felt mass-produced. Non-replicated items with a personal touch were a luxury in high demand.

Yeah because communism can only exist in work in a ridiculous post scarcity fantasy. That's what's it's always been

No, there is an episode when crew encounters planet which uses money and is astonished by concept

We're not talking about Star Wars, Vlad.

top keks m8

>What would Cred Forums do with a Replicator?
go innawoods and live comfortably

fake french, fuck him

This.

Star-Trek wasn't a utopia because a bunch of communist killed off all the middle/upper class.

It was a utopia because people invented shit that was so revolutionary, that everyone was allowed to pursue their dreams, rather than being wage slaves.

There's no money in Star-Trek because they've done away with the need for it, not because they've eliminated it forcefully.

> What would Cred Forums do with a Replicator?
> Can't replicate a million replicators and a trillion Hitlers

Probably would design a perfect qt waifu harem with insatiable sex drive.

then press "replicate"

then get raped to death by petite Asian women

Yep
Get a kickass cabin in the woods with no concern for supply

It's a military junta

they never really go into much detail with the political structure, but officers like picard act essentially like military commanders in their own right. Starfleet itself appears to be a military command of some sort.

And the Federation's largest and highest political body, which I guess would be something equivalent to congress, appears to be staffed almost exclusively by high-ranking human starfleet officers. Kind of ironic for an "inclusive" federation of planets where everyone is welcome. ; )

Do you guys believe that post-scarcity is inevitable?

Kek. Somebody should make this into a pepe too

Trust me, you're wrong. Money still existed but was no longer a central focus of your day. It was primarily for luxury goods since everyone had a replicator. Federation Credits was the primary currency for luxury goods. Latinum was largely used for inter-species trading because it was impossible to replicate it due to technobable.

memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Money

memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Latinum

Here is an article talking about the politics of Star Trek - and how it mirrors developments in the USA. I found it to be one of the better articles I've read on politics in years.

thefederalist.com/2015/09/15/how-star-trek-explains-the-decline-of-liberalism/

We're seeing glimpses of it now. Dirt poor people in Afghanistan with smartphones n sheeit. Basic income is going to be a thing in the next decade or so in many developed countries. There aint shit for work and its not coming back.

No. Even if replicators exist there will always be things that have unique value that will be bought and sold. That's a form of scarcity, because not everyone can enjoy something and a market must exist for it.

Jesus Christ loved money. I love it when the right just can't deal. Are we to like the ferengi more? Picard's just like Corbyn

Basic income honestly is just an infinitely improved better version of welfare and minimum wage. No bias, barrier to entry, improperly calculated incentives, just everyone gets the same check better spend it well

Hi milton friedman

Did you just have a stroke?

>I don't think most socialists would have a problem with an ancillary free market when every human's biological needs are taken care of, and leisure/entertainment is free. There's no class struggle when you don't have to worry about putting a roof over your head, or food on your table.

This really ought to be the ultimate, fundamental, and defining goal of our modern societies.

We literally have the technology to make it happen today, but we don't pursue it with any actual effort.

You're incorrectly assuming prices would not rise, completely offsetting the basic income.

Take a Gaia Theory approach and view the Earth (and its economy) as a dynamic organism. Once automation is achieved and basic income is established, the pressure to sustain so many humans will no longer be there. In the past, humans were required in large numbers in order to create structure and order from chaos. Automation means fewer are needed and the ones that remain must keep busy in some way. For a select few they will pursue the cutting edges of science & art. Those indulging in leisure will go extinct. The system will not want so many people doing nothing and i think society will implode, leaving behind a tiny kernel of humanity left. (Like a neutron star after a nova).

Wouldn't the market just adjust prices and make it the same net value as pre-basic income? I mean you sell X for 10 bucks because that's what the market can afford but now everyone has some spare cash and still the same demand I can sell it at a bargain 15 bucks now.

>Take a Gaia Theory approach and view the Earth (and its economy) as a dynamic organism.

Hell no.

>Once automation is achieved and basic income is established

A centralized basic income will never be the solution. That will only lead to authoritarianism via dependence. Our only hope of reaching a post-scarcity society will be through a system of free market economics and individual rights.

Unless the basic income was accomplished by an increase in monetary supply no it would not. You also assume the money will all be spent on similar products, instead of potential saving a multitude of other investments

Then people won't buy your product. Products price are marginal cost equals marginal revenue, unless these factors changed the market price would remain the same. Simply having extra money does not increase demand in exactly the same areas to create an equal offset in price.

I don't understand their poker games.. Is there any currency in their setting?

a few times you see life on earth, ex sisko's family, picards family, you'll notice they live a 19th century lifestyle and keep insisting "we don't need those newfangled contraptions!"

perfect commie brainwashing

only the military elite get to use advanced technology

>Unless the basic income was accomplished by an increase in monetary supply no it would not

Inflation doesn't require the printing of money. The prices for essential goods will rise until they've reached the very edge of "too high for my UBI" and then UBI would go up, ad infinitum. It's like the minimum wage. Increasing it increases prices, which increases the cost of living, which means higher minimum wage and so on. This is economics 101.

>You also assume the money will all be spent on similar products, instead of potential saving a multitude of other investments

It will primarily be spent on the basic essentials, which will increase in price because they can.

What are you talking about, Leaf? People on earth have replicators.

Picard's brother didn't
Sisko's father doesn't

they are the only two earth familes we ever saw in depth in any series

I have substituted star trek for friendship and socialization for the past year and can safely tell you that you're wrong.

a) DS9 mentions credits regularly. in one episode sisko mentions using up all his transporter credits within a week of going to sf academy
b) interspecies trading is done with commodities/credits depending on the circumstances and formal relations.
c) some items were not replicable (e.g gold press latinum), and were used as a currency (see gambling in DS9 w/ riker, jadzia/curson dax, dax/odo, etc). credits are mentioned a couple times, quark says he doesnt take em in one episode

We already have those kind of people now who purchase "artisan" goods over commercial-grade goods.

>die everytime you use tne transporter

technically, yes, but if your experiences are constantly being saved on a hard drive someplace like the Doctor hologram, "you" will never die

Kek

the REST of the galaxy uses latinum not inside the federation (DS9 being bajoran)

it's like you don't even watch it

as far as "transporter credits" could simply mean allotted rations to cadets

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: A lot has changed in the past three hundred years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy.
Ralph Offenhouse: You've got it all wrong. It has never been about possessions. It's about power.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Power to do what?
Ralph Offenhouse: To control your life, your destiny.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: That kind of control is an illusion.

Picard would have scrapped the 2nd amendment

they don't have replicators? they don't have a tv in their house? they don't even have a phone man

He as a Social Democrat... Bernie Sanders + haircut.

...

fuck, you're dumb

Borg is literally the end goal of communism.

>Control over your own life is an illusion

Well that's just fucking great Picard thanks a lot, got any more life affirming tidbits more us?

The politics in Star Trek are nothing like we've ever seen yet, for a simple and direct reason.
We do not have-
FTL travel
Instant long-distance teleportation
Nearly-infinite free energy
Replicators

Life with just one of these advancements would be way different than anything we know now.
Life with all four? Politics probably won't exist at that point. There'd be no reason for it.

every time Picard starts rattling on about fedaration political philosophy (example in first contact with lily too) I can just imagine a little Picard back in grammar school repeating all those lines over and over..

Nowonder he made it to captain of the flagship, he's the perfect model of a party member..

the borg are actually tons of different assimilated species

they just didn't put much budget into showing that

Star Trek universe is too fucked up to be able to handle based Alien Red Foreman as President ,Eric.

>ITT middle schoolers who have just taken an interest in politics confusing the x and y axis of the political compass

You don't need to secure your borders goy

I think he was right handed

You're wrong m8. Dax repeatedly cleans out Quarks at Tongo. Latinum is used, on occasion, by federation members. Bashir and Odo/dax does (pretty sure the episode was called Facets).

Additionally, in TNG, crusher buys something and tells the guy to bill it to her account, during the episode at farpoint station

p.s. you have a drama teacher for a prime minister who hired a convicted pedophile to give sex ed students to 8 year olds. fucking end yourself m8

>It's not important to leave a future you're proud of for your white children
>Join MGTOW and have fun now!
>Let the other races of the federation out breed you

they're living on an ALIEN station man
owned by aliens so they have to use the local currency

you never see any form of currency used INSIDE the federation..

And thats why all wars in Star Trek are basically along racial boundaries.

Who cares about land or resources or neighbors. You've got an infinite universe to go through.

But then the space-niggers came and started demanding gibs and fucking everything up.

Roddenberry and Berman kept the stuff vague cause they didn't know how the stuff worked.

You don't even know what the fuck you're arguing. Lets go back to what I originally responded to.
>No, there is an episode when crew encounters planet which uses money and is astonished by concept
I have flat out proved this to be a load of shit. You're a fucking retard who shifts the goal posts. Have fun watching your PM spread his ass two feet for every nonwhite that comes his way.

Reminder that the Klingons are the true Alphas of the Alpha quadrant
>They respect strength and ability as much as science and learning
>Equal rights for women if they are as strong and smart as the men
>Support the second amendment
>Not arrogant enough to think there is no god or gods, but powerful enough to slay them and forge their own destiny
>Frown upon interracial breeding
>Respect their culture, history and rituals

Star trek 4 says they don't use money anymore. Lines such as they are still using money in the 1980's are prevalent.

another person who never really watched Trek

this isn't like starwars hyperspace where you can zip all over the galaxy, speed is limited, the major players were all in a small corner of the milky way, territory WAS a big deal

example the whole Cardassian cease fire /DMZ maquis conflict

Mfw: not discussing how starship troopers is infinitely superior

youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs

Martok was a fucking boss, though. I liked that DS9 stopped using Worf as a punching bag whenever they wanted to demonstrate how tough some alien is.

I prefer the Breen

>p.s. you have a drama teacher for a prime minister who hired a convicted pedophile to give sex ed students to 8 year olds. fucking end yourself m8

Its like you can't fucking read leaf.

Straya out shitposts you.

Straya out treks you.

Politely asks you to end your self (you really should) and your come back is...

>they're living on an ALIEN station man

>managing security is wrong
>has an airlock

I don't think that's the point of the comment. I interpret that statement is living as righteously as possible, even if others don't see the benefit.

Post yfw you realize the Founders were kikes and the Jem'hadar were migrants (niggers/Arabs/ect)

>A citizen has the courage to make the safety of the human race their personal responsibility.
>When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.
>Dizzy: My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything.
>Jean Rasczak: Really? I wonder what the city founders of Hiroshima would have to say about that.

Star Trek is pretty much based on early 20th century adventure novels. Those had alpha males in them and so does star trek for the most part. I imagine if it aired for the first time today, the SJWs would be whining about it every day.

You can replicate replicators.

During the Dominion war, they created a self replicating minefield (if a mine exploded or was deactivated, a neighbouring mine would replicate itself).

kek

Guys, he hasn't heard about the new SJW wet dream Star Trek coming in 2017

but you need an energy source (probably extreme) tho, thats the limiting factor

I think those mines got energy from the wormhole itself (which was pretty much space magic)

Starship Troopers the movie was supposed to be satire. The book was much better, although the movie is more mainstream.

Still based material.

TOS was a product of its television era because the network constantly overrode Roddenberry

TNG more more accurately represents his commie visions

The book wasn't that great, all it had was a few political views on killing your enemy and the rest was the team spreading out in a big line nuking planets from inside redundant spacesuits

If it was aired with writing from GR, yeah. GR was more of a traditional liberal/leftist rather than the regressive left who inserts gays trannies minorities etc into every position for no reason other than >diversitylul

Not only that, but it chose a rather admirable philosophy. Despite how much many members of the federation disagree with certain cultures, they dont go sticking their cock where it shouldnt be, e.g. kirk re nazis, gangster planet, etc, TNG episode where wesley crusher gets a death sentence for tripping over some plants, etc. Unfortunately the new ST series looks like it will be made by regressive leftists, if even half the shit I've read is true (which, you know, being from the internet, may very well be wrong).

>lets do a prequel of the enterprise prequel series
>lol fuck continuity heres a new ship design
>hey star trek fans, warp drive is boring, we're going to use this fancy deus ex machina time travel drive. lol also fuck you for wanting continuity
>oh and btw we're making sulu gay. what, george takei disagrees despite himself being gay? lol fuck him. what a homophobe

fuck the regressive left.

In a system where all production is not only automated, but literally just materialized at the push of a button or word, money cannot corrupt. Thus communism works in a sense. So he'd be considered a leftist. But literally an entirely different thing than the leftist of our current world.

But the replicator would only be possible via free market means, due to innovation and automation. A communist society would never BECOME a Star Trek society, nor is a Star Trek society communist because everybody already has what they need due to the futuristic automation making everything easy to obtain.

That's why there's the quest to explore the Final Frontier... there's NOTHING left to do except explore the vast nothing. Star Trek is basically No Man's Sky on EVERY ship except the Enterprise.

>oh and btw we're making sulu gay. what, george takei disagrees despite himself being gay? lol fuck him. what a homophobe

oh yeah, that was re the new timeline in the JJ movies. fucking JJ, not the first time he fucked up a good series. so many retarded plot holes in the new movie series

Well the federation worked on a post-capital, post-scarcity model of economics that certainly nodded towards marxist economic theory.
Basically it was saying, 'who gives a fuck, if we get the future right none of this bullshit will matter anymore.
Later series certainly didn't imply that rampant capitalism was a good thing, the ferenghi, or one size fits all communism, the borg, where a good thing.
They had to start implying niggers where a good thing, klingons, but then they started off as the commies.
Picard would of laughed at the idea of left and right...Kirk actually quoted the ,'declaration of independence', as a good thing...even though it was dripping with the blood of slaves...

t. skimmed it because you LOVED the movie but the book was TOO reading-intensive

Every little point people love about the movie is explored in the book. Plus the movie left out another alien species entirely, and tried to make a false flag (albeit pre-9/11) attack. It was criticism of US military action in the middle east.

>No Man's Sky

The ability to replicate a replicator has no bearing on power source. A replicator can replicate all the parts for a nuclear fusion reactor but you still need to find the fuel.

The mines never said their power source, but obviously it wasn't replicated, unless it was something like a solar panel.

Keep in mind that replicators require a feed stock. The ones on the ships were fed plasma and likely water.

Communism took a country of farmers into space within a couple of decades.
Try harder faggot.

Wrong, they didnt have money because they were all in star fleet duh. Why the fuck do you think the enterprise patrolled the galaxy? They had people with mining colonies.
If anything, star trek paints a positive globalist message in a world where america and the Anglo sphere took over the planet instead of the jews.

>he mentioned a video game that means he should leave

Oh wait a minute, let me check that flag...

To any other anons, I'm saying the Trek universe sucks unless you're on the fun ship. Because No Man's Sky sucks.

>posting an Andrew Jackson quote while advocating communism

Actually, they starved those farmers so that they could get to space first. America didn't need to starve any of its population and we walked on the surface of the moon, and then a few decades later the communist society dissolved.

>people confusing a post-scarcity society with a communist society

It's not a valid argument when 99% of your audience doesn't know what you're talking about

The replicator wasn't built over night.
>protein sequencers
>food slots
>replicators
>particle synthesis

>few political views
Nigga please, it was like 70% social philosophy.

The self-replicating mines with cloaks was just a plot device.

a) violates treaty of algeron. this shit isnt mentioned once. even the research of cloaking technology wasnt permitted
b) violates conservation of energy (ie. what you said re fuel). not even solar panels would work while the mines are cloaked (impossible to absorb)
c) violates established rules re replicators. the original writers didnt want replicators to become a fix-all mechanism so the idea was that replicators could only replicate matter to a relatively limited resolution, hence sophisticated technology shouldnt be possible

Right well I think the thread started by saying replicators created post scarcity

But the energy source is still the limiting factor

besides I don't truly believe the federation IS post scarcity..

there plenty of story lines about having to look for dilithium or some rare drug or unreplicatable component for some colony or whatever

ENT was pre federation, it was likley less communist than what you got by picard's time.

Soviets only achieved what they did re space race due to the severe neglect to the populace. The soviet commoners were proletarians in all but name, as the government was bourgeois in all but name.

One thing made clear was that first contact with the Vulcans was the driving force that united humanity and allowed them to eradicate hunger, disease, war, etc. The only reason this happened, is because the Vulcans noticed the warp emissions in the Phoenix test flight, which was only done due to profit incentive on Cochranes account. Oh, and he wanted to get his dick wet, but I'm pretty sure that transcends culture and time.

>the eternal anglo thinks russians see history that way

user, russian see the Tzar, Stalin and Putin as one big logical line that doesn't have any inconsistencies. It's not about how empire was worse than communism.

Youre wrong, capitalism only encourages companies to truncate progress in order to sell better goods a few months after the previous good was released. Unless you have anticolaboration laws, capitalisms main goal is profit.
Communisms main goal is goodness for humanity. The idea is that if scientists dont work for maximum profit, instead they work to make the best product because of their love for humanity. Of course we all know communism is a governmentless utopia that has not and will never exist except in small family units.
But you are right, communism did not produce the replicator. Hell, warp speed was created by a drunk scientist who was bored.

How is stating historical fact, advocating communism?
Communism sucks frendo.

Picard and Starfleet in general seem like a drug fueled communist utopia. I think one of the better looks into how the Federation actually works and grinds through it's own people is in Voyager where they show all the doctor holograms mining like slaves. It's all a veneer. Deep Space Nine and the Borg seasons start to show how vile and horrible the Federation truly is.

>Soviets only achieved what they did re space race due to the severe neglect to the populace. The soviet commoners were proletarians in all but name, as the government was bourgeois in all but name.
Things have always been fucked in Russia, pre-communist, during communism and post-communism.

>the eternal anglo thinks russians see history that way
Literally couldn't give two fucks how Russians see anything, they crazy mother fuckers.

ITT: C-c-can I still like Star Trek and worship Ayn Rand?

Ferengi and gold bars as the boogeymen of capitalism. Communist propaganda. Post scarcity is a meme anyways. It just isn't possible due to entropy. Pie in the sky or wishful thinking.

Stop equating star-treck to Iian M Banks, you fucking plebian.

Obama per him didn't build that. I do however wish that things weren't as bad as they are and will be.

Expansion is good for business

Iain M Banks fucko. The Culture and Federation share some similarities. I would say the Culture is actually more free and robust in comparison.

I will clarify that I think The Culture represents more of a Voluntarism based society based on Libertarian concepts and goals.

And if you really understood socialism, you'd realize that you've essentially described a communist society, although it is important to realize that there is a historical process for developing the cultural prerequisites for this society.

>there's NOTHING left to do except explore the vast nothing.
Well, the idea is that self improvement is the primary goal, not the accumulation of wealth, as Picard put it. There are other means of doing this- art, science, etc. Unfortunately, we don't see a lot of what federation citizens not in SF do with their life, only a few examples (Picards brothers vineyard, Ben Siskos dads' restaurant, Jake Siskos life of study and writing in the episode where his dad has an accident and disappears, etc).

I love watching Star Trek. It may endorse political opinions which, given our worlds current state, I fervently disagree with, it shows them in a world where they are appropriate. Economic issues are negligible, racially based intra-human conflicts are a thing of the past, religion is practically non-existent, and there is certainly no religion perpetually bombing the kafirs. Greed is rare, and the vast majority of people have a sense of morality and try to adhere to it (though, sometimes they are misguided, e.g. alternate marcus, TNG admiral doing drumhead trials, admiral leyton in ds9). Its nice watching this utopian little fantasy in which humanity is, by large, united. It might be multicultural, however people don't have cultural values forced upon them. Its a nice dream.

Also, if you guys want to see a more realistic look of colonization, watch The Expanse, or read the books. Its set about 200 years in the future, with epstein drive (think impulse engines), with Mars and some sol asteroids colonized. CONT

It has a lot more political intrigue, a lot less ridiculous sci-fi scenarios, no omnipotent beings like Q, and it has a far more realistic take on how human culture will change. What I like is that, while racial prejudices and conflict are a thing of the past, it instead revolves around conflict based on different political ideology. Theres Martians, who, while they have colonized Mars, it hasn't yet been fully terraformed. The entire Martian society revolves around the common goal of turning Mars into, succinctly, a garden. There are the belters (ie. people living, born, working and dying) on asteroids. Initially they were from a mix of different cultures and as a result, over the generations, they've formed their own cultural language (think ebonics). The belters basically want better living standards, because the atmosphere as well as low-g fucks their physiological development up. Then there are Earthers. Earth is lead by the UN, and politically speaking, they tend to act similarly to the EU of today.

The series revolves around the struggles between each group trying to achieve their own goals. I don't want to say more than that, as it'd be a massive plot spoiler, but if you like Star Trek, you'll probably like this.

youtube.com/watch?v=rulCpDrA5H8

partly true. after WWII the russians ot all the stuff that was written down, and the united states got all the brains

germany was picked apart

Socialism/Communism both end up being the same and that's into the trash.

Have you read the books? It's not as complicated as you make it even in the books.

Except you're going to have to at least understand what those things are before you put them in the trash and go back to living in a world dominated by an economic ruling class, wishing you lived in exactly the non-hierarchical future envisioned by socialist intellectuals.

ferengi are not libertarian, they're crony capitalist

just look at all the regulations and taxes

Was he redpilled?

>crony capitalist

But that's just the point towards which all other forms of capitalism evolve.

Ferengi are jews.
Let's be honest.

But the goals of the federation align with those of the (((ferengi))). Why do you think they sided with Sisco in the Domintion Wars?

Federation (communism) breeds profits.

Hippies and Amish exist

It doesn't evolve to it as it's a reaction to central planning and government. Natural monopolies just simply never or likely could exist. They sprout entirely from government.

Classical liberal. He was a conservative for his time, though.

Being able to generate matter simply out of energy makes the left right spectrum redundant. Politics and economics today are the management of finite resources both sides with different solutions to the same problem.

The capitalist state exists to protect the private property of capitalists. They need it to exist, and will exercise greater and greater control over it as wealth concentrates into their hands, and their corruption becomes more and more damaging as it becomes harder to extract profit over time. Fixing capitalism by getting rid of the government is like trying to kill a gecko by cutting off his tail.

What ideology does the left spectrum promote that hasn't been debunked in the last half century or more? A return to classical liberalism with a new name perhaps? Liberal is kind of toxic at the moment and will likely be for the next decade or two while cultural marxism is associated with it.

No. I only found out about it recently, and I've had a lot of Uni work. I didn't mean to make it sound complicated, though, just emphasize how although they've developed culturally past the point of racially motivated conflicts, conflicts based on class were still present. I love watching Star Trek, I love to dream that one day, humanity will evolve past the conflicts which currently plague us, but its unlikely to happen, and The Expanse is far more realistic in how it portrays this.

I haven't really explained myself well, here.I'm just tired and I can't sleep.

This.

If anything star trek is a libertarian utopia.

You aren't forced to work but most people do because of a sense of betterment and the betterment of mankind and the federation as a whole.

If you know anything about Star Trek then you know that theres been only a handful of military only vessels.

Galaxy Class is basically a huge research ship combined with a luxury cruise ship. Theres families and civilians onboard.
Sovereign Class is the same thing but a bit more combat focused because of the borg.

Voyager is a deep space super fast exploration vessel designed for prolonged deep space flight. Yet it still has the luxuries if a holodeck, medbay, replicator etc...

People seems to have private property in the Star Trek universe. Most large scale thing are done by the federation but it seems to have it's divisions.

But yeah like user said Left-Right are economic views and they become irrelevant with infinite energy and mass.

And if you notice there are things that can't be replicated and they're still traded in a capitalist way.

Ferengy use Gold Pressed Latinum a substance that can't be replicated.

Federation mines for dilituium and trilithium crystals for the basis of their anti matter engines aka the Warp Drive.

But other races invented virtually free energy suc has the Romulans that use Singularity Engines that never need to be refueled.

The state can be many things and not necessarily a state that's considered state capitalism. There are many forms and we're likely going the way of federal states or city states where economic freedom reigns supreme (free market). I think it's quite possible we'll lose any sort of say in how we're governed but economic freedoms are what drives humanity and pulls the world out of poverty and into the future.

I was hoping you read them as I found them get progressively worse. In my opinion. Expected more than what I got from it but it is what it is. They do have space Mormons so there is that.

Also if anything the theme of Star Trek shows seems to be Liberalism vs Authoritarianism.

The Federation has a lot of rules and policies. It's a pretty big government authoritarian beast. But it's also highly bureaucratic and not everybody agrees with it.

The Federation is a lot like the perfect EU. But through the show we see it overstepping it's bounds, having shady spy organizations and extremist inside of it. Yet ultimately it seems to be the most liberal out of all the empires.

Klingon are basically a lot more authoritarian and ruled by big elite families that rise and fall on the success of battles or betterment of the empire. Something like the present day China or Soviets of the old.

The Romulans are old China or North Korea today. They're secretive, very closed off but unlike North Korea they're highly advanced. They seem to be the second most adept technological power the first begin the federation.

The Dominion have no real would equivalents but maybe pol would compare them to a Jew Zionist Hivemind they got their one sacred world and everybody around them is enslaved or manipulated to protect it.

do you guys agree with me that your stance on the existence of natural rights is basically the main variable that determines what economic system you favor, or at least should favor if you favor given your belief about natural rights

Extreme left. He let the Borg keep existing even when he had the chance to wipe them out. Even though they consumed and eradicated multiple alien species and would continue to do so

Kirk is the best Captain

State capitalism is a form of capitalism in which the state takes the place of private capitalists to control production and distribute the profits from capital (e.g., the post-Lenin Soviet Union). But even in private or mixed-market capitalism the capitalist state exists to protect the ownership of capital - that is probably its most important function. There is always an interaction between capitalist and state in the real world, and no such thing as a perfect "free market" capitalism in which everybody plays by the rules.

>economic freedoms are what drives humanity

In a way, you are correct - democratization and the diminishing of class control through transitions to new forms of societies is the way to the future. Capitalism is a fundamentally authoritarian economic system - control of the production of necessary goods creates a ruling class that stifles the freedoms of the exploited classes. Socialism exists to remove this control and create total democracy, a total freedom to self-actualize within a world where necessary labor is shared, social decisions are made cooperatively, and the material necessities needed before individuals can begin to develop themselves are shared freely without condition. Capitalism was a historical phase that was required to develop an industrial society, but it is a phase that we are meant to pass through on our way to something better.

What natural rights are we talking about here?

Did you even watch the show? You think that fag could have exterminated the whole collective. The one that has a hidden transwarp hub that can make wormholes to anywhere in the galaxy?

he was a fascist, but a frenchy faggot fascist.

The Romulans are more a modern version of Rome while the Dominion is actually China

>Billions of opressed citizens we never see
>cloning soldiers
>high class is senn as Gods although also faceless in a way
>common people almost never see them
>extrem isolationist
>Vorta , the servile bureaucrats

Based

Yeah, there are a few Mormons in the TV series, like with the Nauvoo.

I'm surprised they didn't make it Muslims or Christians instead of Mormons, since there are far more Muslims today, and Christianity is seeing a huge surge in China.

I just got two weeks off from Uni, so I'll start reading the books soon. Nonetheless, I cant wait for the next season.

The Dominion was almost certainly a reference to Brave New World in a number of ways, with the Jem'Hadar controlled by drugs and the Changelings engaging in an existence of perpetual hedonistic excess and tempting Odo with the same.

There's a slight touch of the meme that the Reagan administration bio engineered GRIDS to destroy the gay community.

When Roddenberry died , Star Trek became way better. Deep Space Nine, Garak, the Dominion War and Section 31 wouldnt have been possible with Roddenberry.

youtube.com/watch?v=StF9jrhw-pU

>Did you even watch the show?

Yeah I did. He was going to do it with Hugh but pussied out

>What natural rights are we talking about here?
ones outlined by locke

Like capitalism or hate it, one must admit the Ferengi were not ancrap, free marketteers, libertarian, or anything like that; their system was TRULY bizarre, with the Grand Nagus seemingly randomly fucking people over openly and telling them they must invest in something that they know perfectly well will fail. Brunt also would show up as the iron hand of the state to fuck things up randomly.

Some of ferengi culture was definitely intended to remind one of regressive rightist stuff like women having fewer rights, but the main character progression of Quark and ferengi culture was moving in a less dogmatic and more capitalistic and entrepreneurial direction. If there was a moral in there about capitalism being bad per se it was lost in translation.

It's possible but I don't see Romulans as Rome.

I mean they were like that in TOS but in TNG they're more like the guys on the neutral zone. We don't hear about them conquering anything or adopting fighting stiles or others or anything that Rome did in it's time.

Remember rome was basically an Empire that did this. You get conquered. You pay taxes. You life doesn't actually change. Sure theres some rules here and there but Romans mostly didn't interfere too much in their subjects lives. Jews were left alone to jew.

Egyptians where left alone to Egypt.

It's the conquered people that slowly adopted Roman things because you were forced to serve in the army. And they saw good things in it. There was comradeery, culture exchanged and so on...

Rome was also notorious for adopting the best shit out there. They called the Greeks barbarians yet adopted their culture almost 100% Gods and rituals and everything included.

would it be gay if you fucked dax

>the Ferengi were not ancrap, free marketteers, libertarian, or anything like that

No, but economic systems and societies are not static, unchanging things that are set up in some perfect way and then never evolve. Create your free-market capitalist economy in a political vacuum, and it is quite likely that you'll end up being something like the Ferengi in a few centuries.

Klingons are more Fascistic. Charismatic leaders and warriors etc.

It's to be expected that people will cheat or not play fair. Free markets adapt and correct practices that are deemed negative. It's natural or say organic. The state has little to do with capitalism or the markets and can technically be any form or system of government you wish that recognizes and arbitrates disputes between parties. Basic property laws are a given in a scenario such as this since that's the best humanity has currently.

It does not stifle freedom or exploit as you choose to work for XYZ instead of hunting or farming your own food and building your own house as an example. That's a bit disingenuous. It does not care what politics you have what color you are what gender or even if you're a figment of an imagination. Hierarchies and traditional values will naturally form or were formed already.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a phase as it was born from trial and error over thousands of years of strife and death. It's the greatest single achievement humanity that has continually raised people out of poverty. No other economic system does this as of yet. Handcuffing free markets with oppressive governments like communism or it's ilk like socialism and regulations keeps humanity back.

It is possible that it will be replaced with something better but as of yet nothing compares.

They didn't have money in the beginning, but later on they used some credits or rations.

I think the president is chosen by indirect democracy, and people have the right to privately own things. So not commies.

But I have gotten a feeling that they have some kind of planned economy but with the replicator the effect wouldn't be as severe as irl. There doesn't seem to be many private corporations either.

I would say Democratic socialists.

Sorry I don't know much about that. A TL;DR of sorts what I google seems like he belived men where 100% free to do that they want. But constrained by morality.

With the End of the Cold War the typical depiction of certain Races / empires was hard to keep.
I guess we will find a mix of certain modern and ancient countries in the main powers of Star Trek.

The History of the cardassian milutary overthrow the civilian government, getting teh common people back in Food and work while being highly nationalistic is a clear hint to Germany going from the 20s to 1933.

>Ferengi are the only capitalists

SPACE JEWS

That's certainly true. DS9 wasn't about 1:1 allegories but with stuff that is a mix of pure creative fantasy, sci fi tropes, random ideas, analogies to other portions of Star Trek, and mixed allegories that even tease themselves.

The one that really gets me is the way the Cardassians and Bajorans were described as a melange of all occupiers and occupied people, including that some elements of the Cardassians and Bajorans alike were inspired by jews; a lot of jews are uncomfortably aware of how what they do with Palestinians reminds them of what was done to them.

While the retardation that happened with Dukat at the end didn't impress me, I was deeply impressed with subversions like the Gem'Hadar that wasn't dependent on Ketracil White and the doctor realizing he can't save everybody.

Its funny how they claimed Ferengi were supposed to be yankee traders, but 99% of the Ferengi actors wound up being jews.

Hes talking about the geometric pattern plan in the episode, I, Borg, which could destroy the entire collective, not through brute force, but by forcing individuality upon them.

Of course, the plan wasn't guaranteed to work, but the point is, Picard believed it could, hence the decision has the same moral implications.

>The Dominion was almost certainly a reference
No, it definitely wasn't. It was far more akin to 1984, with the inner party, outer party, and proletarians, with the founders collectively forming Big Brother, since they act collectively. This point is made by the female changeling, when Odo talks with her.. paraphrased:

>odo
>But how do you distinguish yourself from the others?
>female changeling
>Why would we want to do that?

While the inner party would be the Vorta, outer party as the Jem'Hadar, and the citizens as the proletariat.

The point is, one of the defining characteristics of the BNW society, was that everything was motivated by basic desires being indulged gluttonously, which is the complete opposite of the Jem'Hadar, which do not eat, drink, fuck, or use drugs recreationally (though, the white is a bit of a grey line. Although it gives them relief from pain due to withdrawal, its primarily used as a means of control).

>It's possible but I don't see Romulans as Rome.
...what? The Romulans and Remans are literally named for the characters in the founding of Rome myth. They also routinely conquer worlds and enslave its people. Its not shown much in TNG, only when they attempted to conquer Vulcan, and its mentioned again in ENT where they are shown conquering an unnamed world and mining the space. Its also mentioned more in the books, etc. There are differences, like you mentioned, but initially, they were based on the Romans.

Yeah but GR was definitely not the type to use racial stereotypes, regardless of their validity.

>Free markets adapt and correct practices that are deemed negative

i.e. we have faith that it will work out through free market magic (even though it apparently doesn't based on all available empirical and historical evidence)

>The state has little to do with capitalism or the markets and can technically be any form or system of government you wish that recognizes and arbitrates disputes between parties.

As I said, the state can take various forms in capitalism, but it is always involved in markets and the economy. And whatever interaction exists between state and economy, the economic elite will be compelled to gain control of this influence - that is the origin of capitalist corruption, and it cannot be controlled by "getting rid of the government". Those who own capital must have, demand, or create a government that protects capital and this starts the process towards corruption.

>instead of hunting or farming your own food and building your own house

Let's not engage in ridiculous fantasies. The entire population of the Earth isn't going to go back to some hunter-gatherer condition. But the ability of those who own capital to control those who do not through withholding the necessities for life is certainly a restriction on economic (and general) freedom. Capitalist freedom is freedom that exists only for the capitalists or a privileged few closest to their station.

>oppressive governments like communism or it's ilk like socialism

THIS TELLS ME YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND SOCIALISM AT ALL. Really, you need to understand this idea before you can critique it intelligently. Socialism is not when the state owns everything.

The best part was still the Creation of Section 31.
All this talk about peace, freedom, libertanism etc and ten they simply show that the Federation/ Star Fleet has an clandestine organisation like teh Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order doing the real dirty work for the last 200 years, so that the common federation citizen can live a normal live.

>The point is, one of the defining characteristics of the BNW society, was that everything was motivated by basic desires being indulged gluttonously, which is the complete opposite of the Jem'Hadar, which do not eat, drink, fuck, or use drugs recreationally

The lower ranks in BNW certainly had to do extremely boring, time consuming, and/or exhausting labor. They just didn't have aptitude for anything else. I don't think they had genetic engineering abilities to make it so they gained unusual satisfaction from labor, they just gained 'natural' satisfaction from it plus reduced mental faculties so as to lack the ability to enjoy anything else.

Likewise the Jem'Hadar essentially did what they wanted to. They adopt a young Jem'Hadar and discover that no matter what they do, they cannot cause nurture to triumph over nature. In the end, he chooses happiness in slavery.

>Yeah but GR was definitely not the type to use racial stereotypes, regardless of their validity.

That's my point, he didn't want a racial stereotype but jews lined up to be ferengi anyway.

basically. those constrains are what lead me to believe that someone who believes in natural rights should favor capitalism. while those who do not believe in them are free to favor socialism

See, I take the opposite interpretation of Section 31. In TOS (almost always) and TNG (the vast, vast majority of time), the Federation at large is portrayed as the antagonist. EVERYTHING about the Federation in TOS is at best dangerously naive and at worst dystopian or even cult like. EVERY episode in TOS, the Federation is the antagonist if it shows up at all. The best portrayal I think was Trouble with Tribbles, but they're still being duped by a klingon posing as a jew.

In TNG its somewhat better but visitors from the Federation are still, in the vast majority of cases, antagonists. If a Miranda shows up, Federation NPCs are victims, and if an Excelsior shows up, Federation NPCs are antagonists. Admirals in particular are bad fucking news.

In DS9, almost all bad things about the Federation stem from Section 31.

So some people say it was the most cynical take on the Federation; I disagree, beyond dispute the most cynical take is TOS, second most cynical is TNG.

Ferengi ideology was definitely libertarian/ancap. In practice they were state capitalist. The Grand Nagus was supposed to be a shining example of Ferengi greed and business management, but became worshipped as a god-king and used his influence to rule the Ferengi alliance as a dictator, handing out contract as he saw fit etc. Similarly, the FCA were supposed to keep communism and the federation out of Ferengi society, but instead began shutting down businesses they didn't like.

In the end, Federation subversion allowed for the election of a literal communist retard as Grand Nagus, and Ferengi society was doomed.

Well some could argue that the Federation is just like the Borg.
Invading other spaces with their " Values ", always thinking they are superior, getting as many races inside their Federation " collective " while still bragging about the prime directive.

The perfect example for that was how teh show depicted the encounter with the Dominion:

>travel to another part of the Galaxy via wormhole
>major superpower living there tells you to stay away
>makes that clear by destroying one of your ships and tell you again to stay outside
>every follwoing epsiode showing Star Fleet ships entering the gamma Quadrant for " scouting "....

Nice.

Also, there is something to be said for the way that Quark tenaciously used the DUDE FREE SHIT LMAO of the Federation for profit, even though technically Sisko did tell him to keep his business there as a way to make the station more popular and happening.

>we have faith that it will work out through free market magic (even though it apparently doesn't based on all available empirical and historical evidence)

There is plenty of evidence even with what's left of the free market in it's vestigial forms. Uber, Lyft, Netflix, and to sum up even piracy on the internet. These are all market corrections. Heavily regulated and monopolized markets that have existed far longer than should have due to this manipulation. These couldn't have existed in their current forms without central planning (government). Piracy for example fills a service and niche that still exists to this day.

Capitalism isn't a form of government but an economic system. Specifically with the focus on free markets. Append the appropriate prefix to capitalism (state etc.) perhaps so we're clear when you speak of a political system

I'm not quite sure what fantasies you speak of here as it was an explanation on why people work in a cubicle instead of at home farming to have something to eat.

Socialism always leads to communism. It's chiseled into our history. You cannot escape that nor coat it in sugar to make it better. It was never specifically said or implied the state owned everything even if eventually it would when it ends (Venezuela etc.). I would however invite you to point me to a real world example where this isn't the case.

>shitposting this hard
I hereby declare you honourary leaf

Cred Forums is not one person
Cred Forums is not one thought
Cred Forums is incessant shitposting about everything at everyone for anything
The death cult of liberalism are the true borg, and their one goal in life to exterminate all non liberal thought
Cred Forums does not do this, Cred Forums will bitch and shitpost endlessly about something they don't like, but a simple fact remains despite this

a post cannot be hidden away for not matching the whole
a post cannot be downvoted for not matching the whole
a post will not be deleted for not matching the whole
and a poster will not be banned for not marching in lockstep with the others

if you want evidence for this fact, how often do you see people whining about "A FUCKING LEAF" or "SHART IN MART", or any other nation meme, if anything, posts that go against the grain get significantly more attention than posts that do

You will never find something like this anywhere else on the internet

>In the end, he chooses happiness in slavery.
While I agree thats the case for 99.99....% of Jem'Hadar, there was one who, upon realizing he doesn't need the white, started to question his loyalties, etc.

As far as the genetically engineered caste system, you're right about that. My main difference of opinion was regarding the the excessive indulgence, gluttony, waste of resources (e.g. how they disapproved a game in BNW because it doesn't consume a lot of resources), and the general idea of a society revolving purely around desire is antithetical to the Dominion.

>Well some could argue that the Federation is just like the Borg.
Hi Eddington.

>Invading other spaces with their " Values ", always thinking they are superior, getting as many races inside their Federation " collective " while still bragging about the prime directive.
Its different. Its true that they want others to adopt federation values, however the difference is both in intent, and means. The Borg will simply assimilate any person they find to have remarkable physiological or intellectual abilities, or even just if they're interested in the technology. The Borgs primary motivation is advancing themselves, although they do claim to "lift people out of their petty lives and give them order" (paraphrased), and the Borg will never grant anyone self determination. While the Federation has failed in that regard on a few occasions (e.g. the movie where some species lives on a planet that gives eternal youth), it generally tries to stand by them.

>I hereby declare you honourary leaf
Not Australian? Fuck, we've been slacking lately.

k then

>Well some could argue that the Federation is just like the Borg.

You are completely correct.

More specifically, you will notice the Borg were motivated by, essentially, greed (the ultimate users as Q said, they scavenged useful stuff off the bodies of the fallen), orbitally bombarded Oprah's home world into oblivion, had creches for baby borgs.

Then after awhile they developed assimilation, first for Picard. Picard transformed the Borg as much as the Borg transformed Picard. It became an ability all Borg had.

The appearance of the Borg in Enterprise actually stemmed from the time traveling ones in First Contact, and that's why they assimilated.

Voyager didn't seem to abide by the Picardian origin of the assimilation idea. I unironically enjoyed Voyager, especially the Borg stuff, even though much of it was iffy. Voyager's Borg were very Hellraiser and I found Seven's description of how she was fully aware and conscious when she was being transformed as a child, and deeply painful.

aussieposting is humourous
leafposting is just niggery

>final stage of Communism
>literally ruled by the army
Seems plausible

Well reality is actually a balance.

Everyone wants to be free yet you also want security. So while mugging people on the street and taking their hard work in 2 seconds sounds like a pretty good capitalistic idea actually. Nobody does it. Because we also want security.

Natural rights also implies natural order where weak are at the bottom. But humanity as a collective figured out that we're mostly weak. So we banded up together to form cities and so on to increase efficiency but with laws that would prevent one weak to outpace the others.

But people are not equal so wealth accumulated on one part and the poors on the other. So you got the middle ages with nobles and clergy ruling over 5000 times the population with force and mind tricks.

I don't consider Communism and Capitalism as absolutes but simply a mix of different ideas that exist one in another.

>While I agree thats the case for 99.99....% of Jem'Hadar, there was one who, upon realizing he doesn't need the white, started to question his loyalties, etc.

I know, I'm not talking about that guy. But even that ep went to show there's nothing that can be done for Jem'Hadar in general.

>and the general idea of a society revolving purely around desire is antithetical to the Dominion.

It exists for the pleasures of the Founders. However, the Jem'Hadar do EXACTLY what they want to do at all times. The analogy isn't perfect, but then again I seriously doubt the Omegas (?) in BNW are completely free of negative reinforcement.

>ruled by the army

You have seen this show, haven't you?

star trek is individualism: the series
just watch them and see how they mock communism, especially within the first series
In TNG the Borg (a collective) and Q (a being that believes he has the right to judge mankind, it's ostensibly about god but the primary association you should make is big government) are two of the big antagonists

Rules of acquisition.

I just watched a Deep Space 9 episode where 3 million refugees flood through the wormhole and demand that they be allowed stay on Bajor, even though they had a better planet available.

>everyone is equal
Why did you add that? By what measure is everyone equal?

The space gypsies who thought Bajor was their promised land?

I like to believe Negus Rom didn't last a year before being assassinated/deposed

That depends what right wing or left wing is in your mind. American left wing and right wing has no definition, so it can be anything.

>The Federation denies what they consider to be lesser species from joining The Federation
>The Federation is rayciss

I love how you can take the left's favorite little "This is why we need communism!" propaganda and use it to explain why we should fuck off niggers.

Yeah thats the only DS9 episode that fits the description.

I liked that they weren't allowed to settle. The people were amoral, and wanted to settle on Bajor for purely religious reasons. I've heard that story before...

The leaders of the Federation have frequently been aliens

You will always have aliens, what matters is what rules those aliens have to follow.
Capitalistic rule: no rules, illegals welcome, small government that doesn't even hires border police.
Communistic rule: well-defined rules, illegals non-existent, big government with lots of border police and street police.
So if you look it like that, they had well-defined rules and they fought people who were breaking those rules, while capitalists don't even know who's in charge, not to mention battle them. If you have illegals and don't know how much, you are more closer to anarchy than order Picard had.

If Picard was a commie, I wouldn't mind commies to be perfectly honest.

>"Tea, Earl Grey, hot"
I wouldn't mind having engaging conversations with him even if we disagreed.

It's a post scarcity world anyway.

Doesn't matter, he's never there to deal with the aftermath so his consistency or lack thereof either way makes no difference.
youtube.com/watch?v=XGcAbI-4_io

youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw

He's supposed to come across as more of an old ship of the line/royal navy type commander as apposed to Kirk who was more of a cowboy.

Right-Wing Captain, reporting in.

it's the nose.

Capitalism doesn't really make sense anymore when you have unlimited power and matter replication.

The Federation is post-scarcity so our methods of determining it don't work

"Socialism requires post-scarcity conditions" is a meme.

>le ebin compare a book to a movie meme
You're really adding quality here

Bro they had ONE alien and he was a super useful happa.

I always thought, who gives a fuck how good Cmd. Riker is at bluffing...when there's no risk involved, you can just call him on it every time.

They can't replicate complicated shit. Replicators are for food and simple machines. Like you could replicate a revolver but not a phaser because replicators can't work that intricately.

That's not what he said. Star Trek portrays a utopia due to the technology allowing people to have a more comfortable culture.

Its funny because when he's in an argument with Q, a god like being, its all about the rights of man, and the individual and how humans are their own species who should determine their own destiny.
I always felt like Picard had the right balance of federation ideals and more traditional 'age of reason' type views of the human race.
Sometimes it was hypocritical but he usually applied them in the right situation.

Replicators replicate stuff. They don't have limitless power or utility. They don't use giant replicators to make starships (they still need shipyards) or photon torpedos.

Replication tech used for direct combat stuff (like mass producing drones and mines) is always unbelievably gimmicky and shoddy by itself.

Star Trek portrays a setting that uses post scarcity economics. Post scarcity economics does not mean there is no scarcity, it means there is no scarcity economics; basic goods are widely available, but there's still not enough matter and energy for NEETs to live like the Trumps.

He's a conservative in a utopian lefty hipie-fest Roddenberry world.

HE HAS NO ANAR

I love how he ordered Troi to wear the uniform, then she still wore it after he was gone.

Alpha as fuck

The problem is that's only Klingons on paper. In practice, a shitload of them were deceitful, dishonorable and manipulative cunts.

>The expanse
love the books, haven't gotten to watch season 1 yet...
Any anons got a link??

Television isn't a thing anymore in Star Trek.

True. Someone here on Cred Forums once called Worf a Klingon Weeaboo, and I think it's pretty damn apt.

He believes all of the surface culture of Klingons, that they're all about muh honor and shit, when really they're a bunch of backstabbing power-hungry assholes.

It's because muslims and niggers are draining our resources, we need to either wipe them out or isolate them from western civilization completely

Picard's brother was basically a hippy, he despised technology and believed the old ways were better.

Sisko's father wasn't as much of a hippy, it was just that he believed in actually making food (with technology) than just straight-up replicating it. If anything I'd say he was like Calvin's Dad from Calvin & Hobbes. "Why do I have to peel the potatoes, can't you just replicated peeled ones?" "Because it builds character, Benjamin. Now peel them damn taters."

Klingons are an honor focused culture. "Honor" carries a lot of positive connotations outside of fiction, and so I prefer "face," as in "saving face." Arabs, for example, are focused on preserving their honor/face, but its not much westerners would relate to. Being a back stabbing prick is perfectly in line for that sort of culture.

I've read them, and I feel like the series has gotten better as it went on.
I'm surprised they still surprise me with each novel...those tungsten missles?? fuck.
seems like the world is reset in some new fucked up way each book.

I will say i had originally hoped it would be more of a home solar system, early space travel based universe but has evolved into much more than that.

In TNG they literally replicated a fully working spine. Compared to that, a phaser should be trivial.

just search for it on 1337x.to

The limit isn't usually detail, the limit is on materials.

The mormons are there because they are the ones financing the giant ark ship they plan on taking to another star system.
They want to go form a mormon colony away from earth to do mormon things..
mussies and christians wouldn't do that unless they knew there were aliens to convert.

He knocked around with aliens, dude.
Left like mf.

But that's bullshit. The replicator works with transporter tech, and they can transport phasers just fine. If anything, the only real argument is that the show is simply not consistent with their sci-fi bullshit.

Nothing leftist about that.

Transporters and replicators are not interchangeable even though their function is kinda similar.

Apparently Patrick the actor gets about the Hollywood hills in an old Jag, that's not very green. I hope that's a correct memory.

>Transporters and replicators are not interchangeable
I did not say they were. The show states (TNG at least) that they work on transporter tech, so anything that a transporter can transport should be replicatable, given the pattern is available.

>watched tos and tng as a kid
>started rewatching all of Star Trek earlier this year. Tos and Tng are still mazing, Voyager was ok, had to drop Ds9 because it was boring as fuck and the main cast was shit, dropped Enterprise after a few episodes because it was so damn bland and boring, almost walked out of the cinema watching that movie that was released this summer, it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen

I feel like an old guy yelling at kids. How can anyone like this newer trash?

Impartial until the collected data tell him otherwise.

No. That's a hell of a leap of logic, and one not remotely supported in the show. I don't get the meme about "lets bitch about scifi by pretending to be retarded."

Simply put, they still have need of various sorts of materials, and they often send stuff across on transporter beams instead of simply creating it at their destination.

>TNG was good
>DS9 was boring

Oh... you're Swedish, that's why. Fucking cuck.

>I don't get the meme about "lets bitch about scifi by pretending to be retarded."
But that's exactly what you're doing.

I already wrote earlier
>that the show is simply not consistent with their sci-fi bullshit

>they still have need of various sorts of materials
Does that apply to every single use of the transporter in which a phaser (or whatever requires said materials) is transported?

This just goes back to
>inconsistent bullshit

>But that's exactly what you're doing.

You're the only one bitching about Star Trek replicators, so...

>Does that apply to every single use of the transporter in which a phaser (or whatever requires said materials) is transported?

Your fanfic theory doesn't fit the visible evidence, so its bullshit.

>inconsistent bullshit

ST is pretty inconsistent, but your theory isn't even consistent with the show, so... try again.

>You're the only one bitching about Star Trek replicators, so...
No, I'm replying to people who bitch about details, while trying to tell them that their show is inconsistent bullshit.

>Your fanfic theory doesn't fit the visible evidence
Visible evidence? It's fiction.

>but your theory isn't even consistent with the show
What theory? The show literally states that replicators use the same technology as transporters do, and transporters can process the item in question without issues. The only real difference is that the transporter reads a pattern first, while the replicator gets it from a database.

youtube.com/watch?v=P4KBPaS-1PU

OK I'll bite. Why should I give DS9 another chance? I think I watched sever or eight episodes and I found them to be pretty bland, but I think my biggest problem was that I simply didn't like a single person on the main cast.

DS9 is easily the most red pilled series.

Its the only series where the Federation's bullshit pacifism is actually challenged. The last 4 seasons or so are basically one big war, with the Federation losing for most of that time because they've spend the last 3 centuries being big fat pussies.

First season is a bit bland. Don't try and tell me that's not even more true of TNG though.

DS9 took awhile to catch its stride. A good rule of thumb is that DS9 got better when Sisko shaved his heard.

It was because the apparently overbearing, shitty fucking producers all moved on to shitting up Voyager (which NEVER got good, the only redeeming graces were the Doctor was likeable and Jeri Ryan's huge fucking tits in later seasons)

Was Roddenberry a Jew? I've never seen anything about his background before.

TEA, EARL GREY, HOT!