let's have serious discussion thread about climate change
I'm studying chemistry and one of my professors said that's impossible for humans to produce enough CO2 to alter the atmosphere enough to cause global warming.
On the other hand, I saw pictures of my town during winter 50 years ago and the river was frozen enough for people to drive cars over it and the river hasn't been frozen during winter for the last 25 years.
I don't know what to believe anymore.
Other urls found in this thread:
climatecentral.org
bloomberg.com
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
m.youtube.com
xkcd.com
nationalreview.com
skepticalscience.com
twitter.com
Climate change threads are the only fun threads on Cred Forums. They literally divide this board. Strap in OP. This is gonna be gud
Climate fluctuates but methane is a larger contributer to climate change than CO2 ever will be.
The world has lived throughout hundreds of climate fluctuations. In the early Middle Ages, the earth was much warmer than it is now. During the modern age, the small ice age had started, and we don't know until whence it will last.
Meanwhile northern hemisphere is getting warmer, the southern one is getting colder, with some exceptions. For example, 1961-1990 averages for Novosibirsk are higher than 1981-2010 ones, as you can see on Wikipedia.
Although climate might change, the human has nothing to do with it.
> pictures of my town during winter n years ago
This is irrelevant. If winter is 5 degrees colder than the average and the summer is 7 degrees warmer than the average, that year is considered warmer than average. We have also had huge cold waves in 2004, 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2014.
It's a shame that climate change deniers get lumped into the redneck conservative camp, but no, humans do not cause climate change. Doesn't mean we shouldn't take more care of our planet though.
I have the same opinion. Pollution leads to a more noxious air, which is more harmful than the "climate change", even deadly in some places. It also leads to the death of the fauna when toxic waste is thrown into rivers or seas.
It's quite simple really. Overwhelming majority of scientist who study climate agree that man made global warming is reality.
Retards here will point to some outlier who happens to be a fringe style, christian nutcase scientist who teaches at a creationist University, but of course, that should be disregarded.
Im not a person who has studied the climate for 30 years nor are you. This is not an appeal athority. Fact is, everyone cant be an expert at everything. In cases like this, you basically take the word of the majority who dedicated their entire life to the science. If it turns out to be debunked many years in the future, i bet my life it wont be from the ted cruz's of the world or the poor uneducated Cred Forums posters with a anime loli as their twitter avatar
Global warming is real and anyone who argues this is arguing a scientific consensus and shouldnt be taken serious. We got the college dropouts of Cred Forums who believe in the virgin birth and a the resurrection of christ and a parting fucking sea and a impossible arc vs intelligent, well educated sholars and scientist who dedicated DECADES to climate research.
Hmm. Who should you believe here? I wonder....
climatecentral.org
>pol will deny systematic temprerature increace during industrial and modern era
Taking care of the planet does not bring in dough, that's the reason.
Why would big businesses care about making something more eco-friendly?
Organic products and what not are niche product really, your Joe Average does not care or even know possibly.
Emission quotas? Then production happens in China or some other place where no one gives a crap and that solves nothing.
Its like this everytime something bad happens, only then people wake up. Before that, good luck trying to get something through.
Just go nuclear already and be done with this meaningless debate
too expensive
The real question is: explain me how OP's pic could have zero impact?
Even if it is for 0.0001%, human activities have necessarily something to do with the climate change.
Source:
Your ass
Everything is expensive for you.
Read my post mate.
It's too late for that pup. We're screwed nomatter what we do. I look forwards to 10-20 years when the action will really start to heat up and civilization begins to unravel.
The mistake of Cred Forums is not going far enough and coming to the conclusion that all humans are fucking trash degenerates. We're going to kill ourselves off due to our own stupidity.
bloomberg.com
Good graphic.
HUMANITY IS STAGNATING
THE WORLD IS DYING
WE SHIT WHERE WE EAT
The earth has gotten considerably hotter over the last century
If CO2 contributed to that its not something you need to worry about.
CO2 has continued to rapidly climb, yet temperatures have barely risen in 20 years. This suggests two possibilities: observed warming was not due to change in atmospheric composition. Or atmospheric composition was an effect, but it's logarhythmic, not linear or above linear, as was previously assumed
Now, the greenhouse gas effect is real, 100%. CO2 absorbs strongly in a band of spacebound IR. What we don't know is the amplitude of this effect, and whether it is even functionally important. Pre-historically, CO2 has been correlated with temperature, but curiously, heat led CO2, not the other way around.
What you really don't need to worry about is nut jobs crying about "runaway global warming". CO2 has been ten times higher than today without any sort of biosphere collapse.
All that being said, limiting emissions of CO2 and other gasses is still a good idea forvthe sake of air quality, oceanic PH, acid rain, and Ozone layer integrity. Also, some people will probably bring up methane, but that's really not a big deal. It decays to CO2 with a half life of 7 years
Methane decomposes to CO2 with a halflife of seven years. We actually could not alter the climate with it even if we wanted too. The real danger is CFCs and other stable ozone degrading catalysts
Climatologists are full of shit, and have no answer for why their models completely failed to be predictively valid over recent decades. They do not understand the underlying chemistry or spectroscopy and operate under an impossible doctrine, that CO2 absorption of spacebound heat will continue to go up linearly with atmospheric composition forevever.
Though the earth has certainly gotten warmer
beware of the
>le so edgy faggot xD
posts.
>but methane is a larger
bovine flatulence.
I bet you are a vegan.
MOST OF THE ANIMALS ARE GONE
THE BALANCE HAS BEEN DISTURBED
HUMANITY FAILED TO SEED ITSELF AMONG THE STARS
this.
what triggers me most about the denialists is that they love to point out how the media is brainwashing the masses and controlled by wealthy jews, but when they themselves are spouting literal fossil-fuel industry propaganda they dont even notice it
People who "spend decades" studying/analyzing weather patterns cannot predict what the temps will be tomorrow or next week.
Science, overall, has failed to keep pace with electronic research because of (((monetary))) factors. If you can make $100k writing dipshit software, why would you study archaeology and make $40k? Just for shits and giggles?
>conflicts of interest can only be directly paid for
Did it ever occur to you that if anthropogenic global warming fell out of common acceptance, 90% of climatology would suddenly find themselves without funding from anyone?
>it's the rich wealthy scientists who are corrupt, not the honest oil companies who just want to inform the public out of their pure hearts and philantropy
kys
It's not about being rich, it's about having a job at all.
What he's saying is that capitalism IS evil, but its the scientists who are the conduit for corruption, not the corps
cant make this shit up
>People who "spend decades" studying/analyzing weather patterns cannot predict what the temps will be tomorrow or next week.
>implying climate = weather
instead of calling you a literal retard, I'll just give you an analogy:
liquid turbulence in rivers is what scientists call chaotic; butterfly effect et al
now trying to predict precisely where the molecules of a single glass of water poured into the river will end up is so complex a task it is utterly computationally impossible. (= weather prediction)
but it's extremely obvious that the water from the glass will end up DOWNSTREAM from where you poured it in. you dont even need a computer to calculate that, it's that blatantly obvious (=climate prediction)
so to sum up:
weather prediction = trying to predict exact evolution of highly chaotic system
climate prediction = trying to predict statistical long term and global trends of said system
It's quite simple really. Overwhelming majority of scientists who study astronomy agree the earth is the center of the universe.
Retards here will point to some outlier who happens to be a fringe style, catholic nutcase physicist who teaches heliocentric theory at an italian university, but of course, that should be disregarded.
I'm not a person who has studied the climate for 30 years nor are you. This is not an appeal authority. Fact is, everyone cant be an expert at everything. In cases like this, you basically take the word of the majority who dedicated their entire life to the science. If it turns out to be debunked many years in the future, i bet my life it wont be from the galileo galilei's of the world or the poor uneducated italian peasants with a picture of spaghetti as their wall painting.
Global warming is real and anyone who argues this is arguing a scientific consensus and shouldn't be taken serious. We got the college dropouts of Cred Forums who believe in the virgin birth and a the resurrection of christ and a parting fucking sea and a impossible arc vs intelligent, well educated scholars and scientist who dedicated DECADES to climate research.
Hmm. Who should you believe here? I wonder....
I didn't say anyone was evil, I said people gotta eat. Someone trains up as as a climatologist and then the climate stops getting warmer. Oops. What now? Go get a new phd? Fuck that. Pick a different index that shows you what you expected. Stretch and skew to get that p value, that pretty graph, get published, get the next grant. Your view of corperations as evil baby killing factories and scientists as unwavering heroes is childish. Everyone is just trying to keep their jobs. And if you think the fucking oil barons lose more sleep over it than literally anyone else, you're wrong.
And yet the models have drastically over shot the observed trend
>Overwhelming majority of scientists who study astronomy agree the earth is the center of the universe.
actually the idea that earth (and later the sun) is in the centre of the universe came predominantly from Christians, and wasnt based on observational data for the most part (like today's science is)
thats why the roman inquisition declared galileo a heretic.
global warming exist, but its not manmade, the earth has been getting hotter ever since the mini ice age during the middle ages ended
its only gonna get like 5 degrees higher, its nothing to stop using cars about
now stop being a cuck and go buy yourself a nice american muscle car instead of some swedish micro cuck car
every year when the leaves fall off the trees, do humans cause the leaves to fall off the trees?
being a yearly event, we can watch for a couple of years and realise that we do not cause the leaves to fall.
climate change happens over epochs, unfortunately we do not have the lifetimes to step back and observe it changing with or without human activity.
en.wikipedia.org
here's an entire wikipedia article dedicated to pointing out that you are wrong.
enjoy
Bingo.
A lot of young adults end up saddled with debt because they falsely believe that because what they studied was important it was thus profitable. There's need for high school teachers with an understanding, for example, in how history works, what constitutes history, and overall the philosophy of history - they should be professional historians. But the work environment and low pay of American teachers results in a miserably bureaucratic, rule-worshipping, teach-to-the-test environment. It's the here's-your-black-history-month-lesson-now-here's-WWII void. Who the hell could enjoy teaching it when learning it is such a chore? I made it through high school AP history classes for all four years without doing most of my reading - the narrative was so unsophisticated and without nuance, it's no surprise that we're seeing SJWs and nationalist conservativism in youth culture.
>if we didn't see it, it doesn't count
I guess all those geologists should get real jobs
You know there was an iceage once??
And before that the earth was hot like te tropics but everywhere.
Climate change is an antihumanist meme.
Thanks to industrialization plants have been thriving across the globe due to co2 returning to levels that are much more supportive of plant life where we used to be dangerously low on co2 in regards to plant life.
The church loved the idea of heliocentricism you ignorant fuck. Copernicus was lauded for his work on the subject. The policy was literally "if evidence doesn't support scripture , we read the scripture wrong." Galileo got in trouble because he taught it as fact even after saying he wouldn't until he had more comprehensive evidence. And for calling the pope a stupid asshole even afyrt the pope personally endorced his work.
>Trusting a Croatia professor on anything
You could have picked a worse role model. These guys are so far away from actual real work and facts taht they might as well be politicans.
Do you really think anything you learn at your chemistry classes is going to be applicable when you work in the industry?
Our university system exists to support itself.
Keep people for 7 or more years in college to get payed, don't let them get any good jobs so they can't actually blame you for not teaching them anything.
Repeat this forever. Our education system is broken beyond repair. Enjoy your worthless chemistry degree in Croatia because I have 2 friends that graduated here in Osijek chemistry and they're sitting on their asses thinking of moving to fucking Ireland and Czechia...
Now on to the real thing.
It's not just CO2 thats responsible but look at this curve.
I'm sure it's NATURAL. And we're TOTALLY NOT CAUSING IT.
And unlike the fucking environmentalists and hipppie pices of shit.
I think we should increase our energy production with nuclear plants all over and live normal productive lives.
Not buy fucking Solar roofs and windturbines and pray it doesn't get cloudy or the wind stops blowing.
Oh and btw I'm a Electronic Engineering bachelors for now.
Croatia currently makes 51.3% of it's electricity by HYDRO.
We are running a 32.1 energy deficit so we're importing energy from Slovenia, Hungary, Bosnia and Serbia.
8.4% of our energy is Nuclear btw.
By building one single Nuclear Plant of 1 Ghw would makes us an actual energy exporter and secure the countries power needs for 50 years or more...
BUT NOPE LET'S BUILD COAL PLANTS AT POLOMIN.
Fuck that fact that we live in one of the least natural disaster struck regions on the planet. No significant earthquakes, tornadoes, nothing.
BUT MUH NUCLEAR. Theres a Hungarian nuclear plant 150 Km from Croatia and nobody gives a fuck.
Depending on your definition of "taking care of the planet" it could lead to hundreds of millions dead due to artificially caused energy poverty related causes.
>Taking care of the planet does not bring in dough, that's the reason
Advances in technology which have been incredibly profitable have done more to reduce pollution than any government controls could hope to do with that added benefit of not killing untold amounts of people.
There was a huge and consistent downward trend in pollution in America years before any regulation on pollution even existed and the trend barely changed after extensive regulations were placed. At the absolute best 90+% of all environmental regulations at the Federal level in America have done absolutely nothing but waste trillions of dollars in lost growth due to compliance cost.
Low estimates for this lost economic growth is that the American economy would be roughly 1.5 times the size it is now with high end estimates being well over twice the size.
Even the first head if the EPA has gone open that damn near every level of "environmentalism" has been hijacked by antihumanist fucks who care only about Malthusian fallacious population control and genuinely view humans as an evil force
Unfortunately for all of us this is what allot of people who claim to be environmentalist believe and you can see these undertones in everything they produce propaganda wise.
i'm happy that the warmer temperatures made more land farmable, sea passages more passable, and made the industrial revolution possible!
False premise
"97% of climate change scientists" aren't in consensus.
The fact that a poll done by two people using extremely fallacious methodology to get the answer they already decided on is still used as a serious number is despicable in a community that claims is "pro science"
nationalreview.com
Factually, he is correct, methane is fucking scary. There's some under Antarctica right now that will leak if ice melts more
Not long before people get sick of showing mudslimes in their mouths.
>National review
>William F. Cuckley Jr.
>Extreme cherrypicking
Wew lad.
skepticalscience.com
>Region I live in is known for being incredibly lush
>Water bans everywhere as all our reservoirs turn to rock beds
>Restaurants aren't even allowed to serve free glasses of water anymore
>everyone is scared as fuck and buying rainbarrels
>we've only had 2 major rainstorms due to hurricanes and that's done jack shit
>The 10 hottest summers on record have been recorded in the last 13 years
>Trees are keeping their leaves longer when they should normally be turing that beautiful New England orange and red, due to stress
>Fruit trees no longer producing crops due to lack of water
>Local river by my house is a foot deep, and the lake by my property is 10 feet below normal levels
>fewer birds and wildlife around
>MA, NH, VT, CT, RI, & ME are all experiencing similar conditions.
Say what you want for the cause, but clearly something is very wrong. I'm fucking scared guys and it only gets worse every year. Nothing else matters.
That chart is total bullshit. He literally made it up. Even cursory googling shows temperature spikes way above and below what he suggests over the last ten thousand years. Why would you think a fucking cartoonist is an authority?
The previous hottest days were all in the 1930's and 1940's.
We've got so much climate change and global warming yet temperatures are only just not exceeding those of nearly 100 years ago.
Wew.
>source
>your ass
Fuck off retard.
It's a basic fact in science that the 4 hydrogen bonds in methane are much harder to break despite its lower half life, thus allowing it to trap exponentially more radiation in the greenhouse effect. It's not excited by the IR at all, especially during the reflection off the surface of the earth.
Go read into basic science first, and then read up on environmental science. They have a thing called "environmental politics" where all the retard greens go to get indoctrinated in a less than facts based auto validation chamber for feelings.
Avoid the second one at all costs.
>where does methane come from
Methane does absorb IR. If it didn't, it wouldn't be a greenhouse gas. That's literally what they are
But it decays real fast so who cares
I don't know what to believe. I think all our industry + agriculture + cities/cars/farts can change stuff. But also the historical record I thought shows little ice ages and all kinds of odd shit, and isn't the sun the ultimate decider in this? I know that corporations pay to produce anti gw papers, and I know pro gw papers have been caught falsifying data. Waterworld now!